Who holds you together when life says no? - Into Sisterhood w/ Sefra Gerald

Two sisters trace a life of faith, responsibility, health scares and hilarity, showing how honest boundaries and everyday courage reshape identity and family. We walk through eldest-daughter expectations, real reconciliation with parents, and the quiet power of being invited in.

• why the show exists and how confidence is built
• eldest-daughter weight versus freedom to just be
• sorting real responsibility from perceived burden
• faith detours, desert years and messy return
• hospital nights, resilience and choosing joy
• turning forty, homeownership and hard finances
• long friendships, adult sisterhood and expectations
• healing with parents through humility and truth
• legacy, laughter and letting yourself in

If you're listening from Holy Culture, Sirius XM Station 140 on a Monday night at 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, we thank you for being there
If you're watching on Holy Culture's YouTube, thank you for watching there
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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Why This Podcast Exists
• 2:55 Meet Big Sister Sephra
• 3:25 What I’m Stepping In: Sneaker Segment
• 5:15 Childhood Joys & Being Brought Along
• 11:28 Eldest Daughter Weight vs. Freedom
• 16:40 Responsibility, Boundaries, and Owning Your Truth
• 24:10 Faith Detour, Desert Years, and Return
• 29:25 Accountability, Honesty, and Real Change
• 33:12 Health Battles, Near-Loss, and Resilient Hope
• 41:02 Turning Forty: Homeownership and Hard Lessons
• 46:05 Long Friendships, Adult Sisterhood, and Expectations
• 52:10 Photos, Identity, and Big Sister Emotions
• 57:00 What We Teach Each Other
• 1:01:30 Parents, Healing, and Grown-Up Relationships
• 1:09:40 Gratitude, Laughter, and Legacy
• 1:12:45 Closing Thanks & Where to Subscribe

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

You are just as much as an influence on me as I am. Don't you start now? I know. You're a huge influence on me. I tell people you're my big little sister. So wise and. I'm just. I am so blessed to have you as my younger sister. And I was like, either we're gonna be boohooing or we're gonna be cackling. I guess we're gonna boo hoo a little bit.

SPEAKER_04: 0:28

Hopefully we're gonna be a little everybody.

SPEAKER_03: 0:52

Welcome back to I'll Just Let Myself In with Your Girlish Speaks, the podcast where we don't wait for an imaginary permission slip or some seat at an imaginary table. We let ourselves into our God-given doors. I started this podcast for a few reasons. One, I wanted to remind myself and people like me that you really don't have to wait for anything other than God to allow you to do the things He's called you to do. And the second reason that I started this podcast is because I could. When you can do something, you should. And I realized that for me, a large part of the confidence to do things because I can comes from a very specific person. You know, a lot of people get so much of who they are from their parents. And I get a lot of who I am from my parents. If you know me, you know my dad. Uh, there are other sides of me. If you know me, you know my mom. But there is no person in the world who has influenced my confidence more than the person on the couch today. Today I have a guest who is so many things to so many people. But I got the best deal because she is my big sister. On the couch today, on this episode entitled Into Sisterhood, I have my sister, Sephra Gerald. Welcome to the couch.

SPEAKER_05: 2:20

Hey, girl, hey, how you doing?

SPEAKER_03: 2:23

I'm good, I'm good. Listen, um, this is a much uh requested and awaited episode. People are like, yeah. When's Sephora coming on the podcast? So she is here, all right? Y'all can stop harassing me. Sephra is here. You know, my big sister is a big sister, you know. Uh, she's a big sister in every sense of that word. And so doing this episode entitled Inter Sisterhood, I believe it's going to help and heal so many. Because whether you have a physical big sister like I do, or you don't have one because she doesn't have a big sister, right?

SPEAKER_02: 2:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 2:58

There are so many things that I believe our relationship, our experiences, our humor can teach and heal and encourage people. So, Seth, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. Awesome. Now, before we get into it, you know I have one of the best, matter of fact, let me scratch that. I have the best segment in podcasting. It's called What I'm Stepping In. It's where I share with you guys what sneakers I have on for today. And I don't do this with every guest, but I'm gonna do it because my sister has come in her fresh kicks. Um, and we'll go ahead and do what I'm stepping in. Today I'm stepping in my Jordan 3 Animal Instincts. You guys have seen these sneakers before. This is a repeat for me. I love this shoe. Um, again, it has so many different materials. We got Cheetah, we got zebra, we got pony hair, and it is in the classic Jordan 3 silhouette. This shoe is just so unique for me. I love colors, I love prints, I love textures. And so this is one of my favorite shoes. Anytime I'm wearing black and red, you can probably bet that these are on my feet. So that's what I'm stepping in today. Seth, tell the people what you're stepping in.

SPEAKER_01: 4:05

I'm stepping in New Balance 9060s in this cream, white, and gray colorway. I love these sneakers because they are comfortable. I'm getting older and I need fashion and function. So the New Balance 9060s have become my go-to.

SPEAKER_03: 4:21

Period. You giving the people all of this, the shoulders and the y'all should turn it up for y'all. I should turn it up for y'all. I try.

SPEAKER_01: 4:30

I try.

SPEAKER_03: 4:31

Yeah, I know what we say here, and I'll just let myself in. If you like them, go get you some. So, Sephra, first of all, you know, we grew up in the same house, same mama, same daddy. Right on. Um, you are three and a half years older than me, almost four years older than me. Exactly three and a half. Exactly three and a half. And in so many ways, I feel like we had two completely different childhoods. And did. And did. So I want to ask you, you know, as my older sister, what are some of the things in our childhood that you remember that bring you joy?

SPEAKER_01: 5:06

Okay. Christmas mornings. Christmas mornings always, we had a good time. Well, from Christmas Eve into Christmas morning, because you know, we always got to open a robe or some new pajamas.

SPEAKER_00: 5:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 5:20

And we got to, you know, we always got up super early and just and played. Played together. Tons of memories. Yeah. That's one of my favorite things. Actually, we played a lot together.

SPEAKER_03: 5:36

Yes, we did.

SPEAKER_01: 5:37

We played a lot together. Barbies and dolls. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 5:41

Especially and dolls, my friends, your friends, cousins. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 5:44

Yes. Yes. Yes. So that's that's one of my fondest memories from childhood. And then as we got a little bit older into like teen and preteen, you just tagging along with me. I was never that big sister that was like, why you wanna come? No. It was please come. Actually, I felt cooler when you were around. Because you were the cool one.

SPEAKER_03: 6:09

Well, you were always very cool in my eyes still. You know, my sister, you know, what you said is so true. My sister never um made me feel like a burden. She was always like, Come on, girl. So um when she went into our teenage ministry in our church, and I she was 13 and I was only 11. Um, she let me tag along with her. Was I 10? I was 10.

SPEAKER_01: 6:31

10, probably. 10.

SPEAKER_03: 6:32

And she let me tag along with her. And when she was in the gospel choir at Brooklyn Tech, and I was in middle school, yes, what's up, Brooklyn Tech? Um, my husband and my sister are both graduates, so as well as um Kim Coles, who plays Sinclair on Living Single, who makes me laugh every night while I watch it. So I'm indebted to Brooklyn Tech on a couple sides. Um, but anyway, um, she always brought me along, tagged me along. You know, I would come, I would leave school and go to her school and meet her at why would I do that when I went to school around the corner from where we lived?

SPEAKER_01: 7:05

I don't know, girl.

SPEAKER_03: 7:07

It just dawned on me. I went to school around the corner from my house and I would leave my school to go. Maybe we had church or something those nights. Because I can't imagine why I would do that.

SPEAKER_01: 7:16

I didn't even remember, but I know you did.

SPEAKER_03: 7:18

But I would leave my school, go up to Brooklyn Tech, and just hang out with all her friends. I think it helped me to mature, helped me to be confident and speaking to people who were older than me. It helped me to know that like what I had to say and what I brought to the table was valuable. Wow. It just really, I don't know, being around you and your friends and your social circles, it helped me to grow up quickly, but not too fast. And so, yeah, I always feel really grateful and indebted to you in that way. I'm getting a second. It is dad. This is our father calling me. I'm gonna answer. I would never do this. Hey dad.

SPEAKER_01: 7:56

Hey, what's going on? What you would never do?

SPEAKER_03: 7:59

I'm filming a podcast with Zephyr right now.

unknown: 8:02

Oh, let me let you all do your work.

SPEAKER_01: 8:05

Bye, Dad.

SPEAKER_03: 8:09

Okay. I'll call you back. All right, love you. Bye. Father. That's our father. We'll talk about him in a second. Um, but yeah, I think that it informed a lot of who I am. So we talked about uh fond memories of our childhood, and we're gonna talk about some more. Um, I think we grew up in the best era to be kids and the worst era to be adults. Um we got gypped. We grew up in the 90s, it was fun, it was great. We all thought we were gonna grow up to be Pam and Gina. Yeah. Grew up to be Tommy. I do got a job, though. I know me too, but Lord, if it's rough out here. Um but on a serious note, I feel like we grew up in the best era to be kids. We grew up in a time where, you know, we didn't have social media. So, you know, my sister the Lord. I I especially especially in my 20s. Yes, girl, because your 20s, whoo, child. My sister was outside at one point in her life, baby. And uh we'll we'll get to that, we'll see if we can get to that too. But I feel like we've lived so many eras together, even though we're so young. And I just appreciate who you've been in every single one of those eras. So I talked about how we had two separate childhoods, even though we grew up in the same home and we're only three and a half years apart. And a large part of the reason that we had two separate childhoods is because you're the oldest.

SPEAKER_00: 9:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 9:32

And there's a whole thing online about oldest, oldest child, but specifically eldest daughter. You know, syndrome, lifestyle, trauma, all the things. Um check, check, and check. So thinking about yourself as the eldest daughter and the childhood that you had versus the childhood that I had, what do you feel like was the hardest thing about it?

SPEAKER_01: 9:54

You know, I feel like the hardest thing for me was that I felt like everybody could do whatever they wanted to do, but I was stuck sort of being the responsible one. That was hard, like I wasn't even allowed to veer to the left or veer to the right. And I'm certain that is a story that I told myself, right? In some way, but it's how I felt. You know, like Alicia could dream and she could just be allowed to just be, and I had to be responsible. I had to get it done.

SPEAKER_02: 10:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:33

In a lot of ways, even as we grew up in our Christianity and our discipleship, like you could be Mary, but I had to be Martha. You know, it was difficult, but I was always super proud of you. Always super excited to see what you were gonna do next and see, you know, how you were going to just live your dreams because you always had a big personality. And when we were younger, I didn't really know how to wrap my mind around it all the time. Because you were like always moving, always dancing, always being Alicia, always being Alicia. And I just felt like I didn't I didn't have that freedom all the time. There's a freedom about you now that I think about it. But I think as we've gotten older and kind of settled into who we are, it really is um synchronous. You know what I mean? We complete each other in in a very special way.

SPEAKER_03: 11:36

Yeah, absolutely. So you talked about the story that you told yourself, you know, growing up feeling like you didn't have as much, like you had to be the responsible one. And in some ways that's a story, but in some ways that was very much the reality, right? Like if you, you know, grew up in New York City, you know, like there's no school buses really. Like you take the bus and the train to school, right? You walk, you do different things, and like at a very young age, you were responsible for me and our younger brother Jared. Right. You know, making sure we got to school. And I think things are so you don't think about them until I feel like certain city things you don't think about until you move to the suburbs.

SPEAKER_01: 12:08

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03: 12:09

You know, like how many places we went by ourselves.

SPEAKER_01: 12:12

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03: 12:13

You know, and maybe kids in the city don't do this anymore, but I have a feeling they still do way more than suburban kids. It's like you just you go, you buy B nine, your sister's six, you know, and you take it to someone B25 and go downtown and meet your mother at J Street. Yes, yeah, to get on the 52 months. Right. Okay. And you come back into the hood, and when you get and you get off at Gates Avenue in Lewis, you walk to your block. You know what I mean? Over. Right. You know, you get up and you go to the laundromat. Right. You know, and these are just things that we were doing. And in some ways, I'm grateful for them because I feel like it made me, I'm very aware. Yeah, you know, I I'm very good at people, I have a great sensibility, I have great street smarts. But you also think about this like, well, this is really mature work. Right. You know, and so I feel like some of the narrative that you became to believe is grounded in a lot of truth. Yeah. Like when you are taking your two younger siblings to school, you are responsible for them crossing the street safely. You are responsible for them getting home safely and getting there safely. You are responsible for making the phone call to your parent and saying, hey, we made it home. You are responsible for taking the dog on, checking out the freezer. Like it is a lot of responsibility. You know what I mean? And I think that it took you some time to realize how much it had affected you.

SPEAKER_05: 13:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 13:34

So I want you to talk to other eldest daughters who may not be as far along on their journey because I want to say this. I want to, I want to give you these flowers. I feel like over the last five years, particularly, you know, and I think COVID has some to do with, like, you just had to sit with yourself. Right. You know, we all did. You've done a tremendous amount of work to work through past feelings, identities, stories, patterns, to forgive not only others but yourself, and to start writing a new story.

SPEAKER_05: 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 14:10

And inevitably, there's some eldest daughter right now watching this who is stuck in some of the things you used to be in. What advice would you have for now?

SPEAKER_01: 14:20

So I'll take it right back to Mary Martha. One of the things I had to tell myself is is this a real burden of responsibility or is it a perceived burden of responsibility? What am I actually responsible for? And what am I, what is perceived? You know, and once you figure that out, it it gets easier to create these boundaries. It gets easier to feel good about the things you say yes to. It gets easier to feel good about the things you say no to. If it feels better for you to say, you know what, to a parent or a family member, please don't bring that up. Or this is my truth, and stand in it, even if it makes them uncomfortable. But I think mainly is understanding what's yours and what's not yours.

SPEAKER_03: 15:16

Expand upon that.

SPEAKER_01: 15:18

What's yours is your truth, your thoughts, and your feelings. And what's not yours is other people's other people's.

unknown: 15:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 15:26

Especially when it comes to dealing with past traumas and past hurts, you're allowed to have your truth about that. And if you bring that to the person that has hurt you or that has brought on those traumas, whether or not they meant to. Yeah. Because things that our parents do or family members do or friends might do, if they love you, they don't mean to hurt you. Right. Um, but there are some things that might have unintentionally hurt you and might unintentionally have caused some wounds that you want to heal. And in order to heal that, sometimes you have to have conversations. And when you have those conversations, if the person decides that to make it about them and take it personally, well, I never did, instead of saying, you know what, I'm sorry, I hurt you or whatever the case may be, that's not yours to do. I'm very, very grateful that in my life, when I've had those conversations, um, they have mostly gone really, really well.

SPEAKER_02: 16:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:26

You know, but just understanding what's mine and what's not mine and taking responsibility for what's mine because I'm the only person on the face of God's green earth that I can control.

SPEAKER_03: 16:37

Yep. And barely that sometimes.

SPEAKER_01: 16:39

Barely. Okay. Okay. So I think that is advice I would give eldest daughters as you, especially as you get older and out from your parents' thumb. Yeah. Just knowing what's yours and what's not yours. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 16:56

And it's so funny because I think I remember a conversation where I had to help you with that perception.

SPEAKER_01: 17:00

I'm certain.

SPEAKER_03: 17:02

Because I don't know if you remember this, but when you were about to buy your house or looking for a house, you know, you were talking about like needing a house like for all of it. Like basically, you were like, I just know that I need something that if you were to need something, or if and I was like, Zephyr, I'm never gonna need to live with you again. Like, I'm married, like you know what I mean, like and being very well taken care of, and I'll be fine. Like, you know what I mean? And um, I think it even in that moment for me, I realized how deep it ran for you. Like it's just in your nature to think about, okay, so I have to do something that is beneficial to everybody. And I was like, you don't, you really don't. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm fine and I'll be fine, you know? And um, it was it was eye-opening to me because although I may think that way in some ways, like I think I'm we've talked about this. I'm more emotional, I more carry the burden of feeling like I need to show up for people emotionally, right? And you carry the burden of feeling like you're supposed to show up for everybody physically, yeah. And that goes very much into our childhood, you know. Um, you were responsible, but you were emotional. Yeah, you know, um, I was free, but I was logical and stable, whatever that meant, right, for a child. That's a whole nother thing for me to talk about with my therapist. So when you had your moments, or Jared had his moments of anger, or even mom had her stuff in the household, I feel like the story I tell myself, because again, we all have a story, right, is that I was the center. Like, everybody calm down. It's gonna be all right. You go do that, you go do that, and I'll take care of that, you know what I mean kind of thing. Um, and I think it made me become that in friendships. It certainly made me become that in relationships, right? And I found a lot of my identity, and it didn't help that I went into ministry. So you become people's sounding board and their shoulder to lean on, you know. And I found an identity in that. And I think you and I both over the last several years have had to come out of agreement that being our identity.

SPEAKER_01: 19:11

Right. My identity was what I remember I was supposed to give Auntie a ride somewhere, and I completely spaced on it. I was in a meeting at work, forgot to put it in my calendar, and completely spaced on it. And they kept calling me, but I was in a meeting and I couldn't answer. And like I answered the phone. I was like, where are you? What are you, where are you? Why are you not? Are you not coming? And I don't, I think they were more concerned because I wasn't answering the phone, not because I didn't show up, but because I'm so used to having to show up, like I was like, I can't drop the ball. Like, I really just like was upset. But I think it was I was more upset with myself because I forgot.

SPEAKER_05: 19:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:57

And I think that is that identity. Like, if I'm not showing up for people, will they still love me? If I'm not doing the thing, what's what is my value? Yeah. I grew up hearing Sephora's my right hand, Surfa's my right hand, Sephora's my right hand. And while that was the compliment, I can understand the compliment that that was meant to be, it really skewed who I thought I was to people and the role I thought I was supposed to play in their lives.

SPEAKER_03: 20:30

And sometimes I still catch it with you, you know. Like I'll cook something that you cook, and you'll be like, don't learn how to cook it because you're not gonna need me. And I'm like, I will always need you. You're need my need for you has nothing to do with this casserole that you make. Right, you know, and I know that you're like playing, but I also know that there's a little bit in you just as a big sister, right, who just wants, always wants to be needed and loved by me, which you always will be. There's there's nothing that you could do ever or not do that would change that. I think about our upbringing in the faith and Christianity, right, and how much that plays into who we are as people, but we've also had journeys, you know, we've had journeys, spiritual journeys. And it's so funny because I've never heard you say the Mary Martha thing. I don't look at our relationship like that at all. If anything, I think I'm the Martha. So it's funny to see that you feel that way because I'm like, I was in this thing 10 times deep, you know, but um that's I can see that though, you saying that because I'm definitely I would definitely be the one at Jesus' feet.

SPEAKER_01: 21:42

And I'd be the one in the feet.

SPEAKER_03: 21:44

And you'd be the one, you know, making the bread. Right. Um and I think I see at times I think I've seen that differently because of my work in ministry and my work in church and how you were kind of just doing what you wanted to do, figuring it out. You know what I mean? And so I think we've we've gone on different journeys, but we've ended up at a very similar place.

SPEAKER_00: 22:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 22:08

Talk about your journey of finding God at a young age, but also having to bump your head a few times and figuring out, you don't gotta go into all the details, but just figuring out how to get back to a depth and a real relationship with God in your adulthood.

SPEAKER_01: 22:25

Yeah, so again, doing what I thought people wanted me to do, what they saw in me, and oh my gosh, stuff was such a great kid, you know, very good at memorizing Bible scriptures and following rules, right? So I did what I thought I was supposed to do at 13, and I I think that I loved God as much as a 13-year-old with no life experience could. Um, I think, you know, I moved out of the house. And even though I was around other young Christians, you know, I didn't really have deep relationships. And when my feet got put to the fire, I did not, my my discipleship didn't stand. And so I spent about 10 years in the desert. Sometimes going to church, sometimes listening to gospel music, still being very much loved by my family who remained faithful and who I'm sure prayed a great deal for me. But it was years of being, not just being outside, but I was, I was out, like I was the definition of outside. Like I remember. Very much, very much in the streets, very much having, and I look back upon those times finally. I had a I had a lot of good times with a lot of a lot of good people. Um, but it wasn't, it wasn't fulfilling. In what was it, 2011? 2011, I got robbed at gunpoint. And seeing a gun in your face would make you think about some things. And that's when I decided to, you know, rekindle my relationship with God. And even in that, I still struggled. I still struggled for about five years with one foot in the world and one foot at church. I mean, I was out I was still low-key outside and coming to church on Sunday and like Homer Simpson moon walking out the thing. Because I didn't want nobody to ask me no questions. And it took about five years or so for me to be like, girl, what is you doing? It was actually the Mike Todd sermon. And it was a it was the sermon where he made the mud with his spit and put it, yeah. And he said, What if, what if your healing is dirty?

SPEAKER_03: 24:53

It was that sermon?

SPEAKER_01: 24:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 24:54

I did not know that.

SPEAKER_01: 24:56

It was that sermon.

SPEAKER_03: 24:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 24:59

It was that sermon that made me call up one of the sisters at church, an older sister. I I love older women, okay? Um, her name is Juliana Moore. And call her and was like, Can I come over? Can I come over right now? Like, aura, can I come over right now? And I just, everything, you know, and it was it was so freeing. It was so freeing. And so that was really, you know, my spiritual truth journey. And I was like, I needed, I needed to do this again as a grown-up. I needed to do this as a grown-up, and the cross means something completely different than it meant to 13-year-old separate. And I think even if you have stayed faithful for 10, 20 years, it should always evolve. The meaning of the cross should always evolve in your life.

SPEAKER_03: 25:49

I agree. If you become a Christian at a young age, you are loving Christ the best you know how. You know, I tell people all the time, when I was 14 years old and I did my Bible studies and I said I wanted Jesus' Lord, and people said, Oh, don't have sex with you till you marry. I just knew I was gonna be married about 22, 23. When I hit 33, 35, and I ain't had none of the sex, I said, This is not what I signed up for. Yeah. Or you think about forgiving people when you're 14, you think I'm forgiving my friend because she talked behind my back. I'm gonna forgive you. You don't think about forgiving people who have stolen from you, lied on you, cheated you, right, betrayed you. You don't even, you, you can't fathom.

SPEAKER_00: 26:27

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 26:27

And so there's a part of you that really has to mature in your relationship with God. Absolutely. You have to go deeper, you have to get more vulnerable, get more open. There's a story that you tell, or that you've told me at least, where you were like, I knew that I would have to get right because you were moving here. So tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01: 26:48

Oh yeah, oh yeah. That was another, another factor because if anybody gonna get in my business, it's me, is Lish. And I and I I can't lie, I can't lie to her for long. I can't lie. And um, I was like, okay, I'm I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to get myself together.

SPEAKER_03: 27:10

Yeah, I was moving from New York in 2017 because it was she gonna be, I can't be hiding my phone, I can't be like living like that in the end.

SPEAKER_01: 27:21

Yeah, blah blah blah. It's exhausting.

SPEAKER_03: 27:24

I was like, well, win, girl, we together all the time.

SPEAKER_01: 27:27

It's exhausting, it's exhausting living like that. You know what I mean? Having a secret tab on my phone, and you know, it's exhausting. Toss you my phone right now, child. Yeah, I don't care.

SPEAKER_03: 27:41

Why did you feel like you had to hide from me?

SPEAKER_01: 27:45

You know, when you know you're not living right, but you're acting like you're living right, and you know somebody's gonna pull you a card, like you're not gonna pet my sin. You're not gonna be like, well, you know, Jesus still loves you and grace abounds.

SPEAKER_03: 28:02

No, no, I'm gonna say that after I tell you.

SPEAKER_01: 28:05

Right. After you be like, um, yeah, what are we doing? What are we doing? Yes, you know what I'm saying? And if I decided to live a certain way, you would not love me any less at all. But I know that you were gonna call me to the faith in which I professed.

SPEAKER_03: 28:22

Right, true, true.

SPEAKER_01: 28:23

And the and the life in which I acted like I was living. You are just as much as an influence on me as I am. Don't you start now? I know. You're a huge influence on me. I tell people you're my big little sister, so wise, and I'm just I am so blessed to have you as my younger sister. And I was like, either we're gonna be boo-hooing or we're gonna be cackling. Hopefully, we're gonna- I guess I guess we're gonna boohoo a little bit.

SPEAKER_03: 28:56

Hopefully, we're gonna do a little both because I know some of the stuff I have is going to make us both emotional. Um, but I I I appreciate that, you know, because I and funny enough, I feel the same. I feel like you call me to the mat too. I feel like Seth now would not pet any character sin, any flaw, like you're gonna call me out. And not only do you do it for me, but you do it for other women. God has allowed you to grow in certain areas where you help other people to be accountable in the areas that will want such a struggle for you. And to me, it's just a testimony to his grace.

SPEAKER_02: 29:29

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03: 29:30

Um, it's a testimony to his power because you can't even imagine doing some of the things that you used to do or saying some of the things you say, as long as some of the places you used to go. That's how changed you are, and it's just a beautiful thing to see. Um I want to talk a little bit, as much as you're comfortable with, about your health journey. Yes. Um so my sister. I always tell people she has struggled with her health as long as I can remember. From being in a car accident when you were 12. Yeah. Being diagnosed with diabetes and a host of other stuff that you've dealt with. It's always made me really cherish you. Because I think from a very young age, I realized, oh, she, you can lose her. I feel like the car accident, I'm not ever said this to you, but I feel like it was a turning point in our relationship. Because I feel like when we were younger, we did what little sisters do. We argued or whatever. But I honestly feel like since that time, like we've just been locked in, you know? Um, in high school, we didn't really argue. We hung out all the time. We didn't really argue as adults. I think we've had one argument.

SPEAKER_01: 30:42

One argument.

SPEAKER_03: 30:43

And we both cried.

SPEAKER_01: 30:46

You remember? Yes. Wasn't it like pandemic?

SPEAKER_03: 30:50

Wasn't the house too long? I don't even know what we're arguing about. We're both kids. I don't know. We were both crying and apologetic and just, I think we were again frustrated, pandemic. Um, but we literally do not fight. We do not argue. Um, and we're very different.

SPEAKER_01: 31:11

Extremely.

SPEAKER_03: 31:13

We see life differently, we see everything, we see money differently, we see opportunities differently, but there's such an intense respect for each other's points of view, for our minds. We like the we like each other, like legit. Yes, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01: 31:29

Legit.

SPEAKER_03: 31:30

And so I think about how many women struggle to find sisterhood. They struggle to feel, even those who have sisters, yeah. Just to be in great relationship with our with their sisters. And what is something that people always say to us when they see us together?

SPEAKER_01: 31:43

Oh, y'all are sisters.

SPEAKER_03: 31:44

Yes, like y'all are so that people are like amazed, like, wow, y'all really like each other. Like y'all are really, y'all are really sisters. And I think it has a lot to do with how you you taught me how to be a sister, right? You definitely, mom and her sisters, even grandma and her sisters, right? Like, you taught me how to be a good sister. What is something that you really cherish about sisterhood in general, whether it be friends, our relationship, our cousins, uh, because we got cousins who we're close to like sisters too. What is something that you cherish about sisterhood?

SPEAKER_01: 32:18

It's that, it's just that bond.

SPEAKER_03: 32:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:21

It's it's the bond and it's the knowing that they're not going anywhere. You know what I mean? We could disagree about things. We could not see, like you said, we have completely different outlooks on a ton of things, but on the things that matter, yeah, they're always gonna show up.

SPEAKER_03: 32:41

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 32:42

They're always gonna show up.

SPEAKER_03: 32:43

Absolutely. I'm gonna go back to a question that I asked and didn't let you answer. I talked about your health scares. I remember times being in the hospital with you and just praying and and hoping that you would make it. And one of the times that stands out most to me is right before the pandemic.

SPEAKER_01: 33:01

Oh, in 2020.

SPEAKER_03: 33:02

In 2020, early 2020. You went in the hospital for one thing, and then all of a sudden, I know I had COVID. Yeah. All of a sudden, this is before COVID had a name, but all of a sudden, all the COVID symptoms came. We had to wear masks and full body suits, almost half-mat, to go into her room. And I remember being at work. I used to work for Bank of America, and I remember being at work and mommy saying, you know, you need to come to the hospital. And I was like, What's going on? And she was just like, You just need to come to the hospital. You know, just come, just come. Um and there was a little like atrium between the offices and like the hallway or whatever, um, to the cafeteria and all the stuff. And I remember walking there, and there's a bunch of windows, you can see the parking lot. And I got down on my knees and I said, God, I cannot go into the hospital to a dead sister. So, whatever you need to do, whatever you need to do, I need you to do it. And I got up, I drove to the hospital, and you were like in and out, like barely, you know, you were there, but you were like sick, you were so sick. And I remember doing these breathing exercises with you. Do you remember? And I used to tell you to breathe in healing. You remember this? No. Wow. You would do it, and I would tell you to breathe in healing, breathe in recovery, breathe out sickness, breathe out fear, breathe out, you know, I don't know what nuanced person I saw do this on the internet or something somewhere. And we would do those breathing exercises together. And I remember Bad Boys 2 was out or coming out.

SPEAKER_01: 34:47

No, three.

SPEAKER_03: 34:48

Three, three, bad boys three, and you were like, Oh, I hope I get to see this movie. And I was like, We're gonna see this movie, we're gonna go to the movie theater together and see this movie. You remember that? Yeah, I'll tell you that. I do remember that. And you were just so out of it, so sick. And I just was like, remember, we have to go see Bad Boys Three. And I was doing all these things to give myself hope that you were gonna make it out of this hospital. Because it was like the sickest I had ever seen you. Mind you, I've seen you go through a windshield and get 1200 stitches in your face. That's another story for another time, right? With the car accident. But this was the sickest I had ever seen you, and I just was like, I'm not, this is not, I can't do this. And I remember watching you slowly recover and that time building my faith in God so much. And I remember us going to the movie theater, me, you, and mom, going to see Bad Boys 3. On my knee scooter. Yes, on your knee scooter. Because she went in for ankle surgery and wound up having. But to this day, when I see that movie, I get emotional because it means more for me than just the movie. Wow. It's like this was a redemption point. Now, the movie ain't nothing saved about that movie, y'all. So, you know, I'm not recommending it, holy culture, but I'm just saying um it really is a point. And I have many points like that where I've prayed for things with you, for God to do things for you and with you. Um, and you've just been a constant, you unfortunately, your suffering has been a point of depth and prayer, I'm sure, for you, certainly for our parents, you know, our brother. Um, but for me, to really see God's hand over your life. And I don't think the blessings are gonna stop. We always say, me and my um my older cousin Kenya say that you are God's favor, you're an angel. Like nothing can happen. Surface bulletproof, like she's gonna outlive us all because of all the things that have happened to you. But I want to ask you for real, you know, that's my one of my experiences. How has all the sickness, all the hospital stays, all the situations, how has it affected your faith and your belief in the goodness of God?

SPEAKER_01: 36:58

As far as the goodness of God, he's not only good, he's the greatest. You know, you could have one or two perspectives. And I choose to just see the fact that I'm here. I have my two feet, I have a good amount of my health, you know. And he wakes me up every morning. I might have to take some medicine, I may have to monitor my blood sugar, you know, use a little salt-free seasonings.

SPEAKER_03: 37:26

Shout out to Auntie Tad.

SPEAKER_01: 37:28

Right, love him. But he is, he's great. His his mercy on my life is evident every single day. I could choose to say woe is me. I could choose to make excuses because if everybody knew the full breadth of my health issues, they wouldn't understand why I'm not bowled up in the corner in a straitjacket somewhere. But I don't, that's not the life I want. I deserve to have a full, fun, faith-filled, all the above life. Yeah, and as much as I can, I'm going to. I be tired. Yeah. But you know, I deserve that. And every day that he allows me to wake up, I try to experience some form of that.

SPEAKER_03: 38:17

Yeah, I love that. That's good. That's good. It makes me emotional to hear you say you deserve that because I don't think you've always felt that way.

SPEAKER_01: 38:27

You know, some day, some days, you know, but I do know that it could be worse. You know, and I like I love to travel, I love music, I love, you know, there are things about life that I enjoy that I can still experience.

SPEAKER_03: 38:45

I mean, from a self-esteem standpoint, I don't think you've always thought you deserved good things.

SPEAKER_01: 38:51

You know, you've helped me with that. You've definitely helped me see myself in a in a better light, you know, and I'm still working on it. Shout out to my therapist because I talk to the lady every Wednesday at five. Um, so shout out to her. And it's been a work in progress. I am probably her most obstinate client when it comes to like journaling and you know, facing certain feelings, but I do believe that I deserve good things. You do. You know, I don't think there's anybody that God put on the face of this earth that doesn't deserve good things. That's not what his word says.

SPEAKER_03: 39:32

You're better than me.

SPEAKER_01: 39:33

That's not, you know, some people have some behavioral issues, but at birth, at inception, we all deserve yes.

SPEAKER_03: 39:44

No, I agree. You know, I was thinking about um good things, politics. But anyway, um amen. Yes, we do. We deserve the grace and mercy of God for sure. At the very least. We don't deserve the grace and mercy in God, but he gives it to us anyway. He cares for his children. So yeah, I agree with that. For me, you know, thinking about you and your future, you know, you turned 40 last year. I did. Almost 41. Did a beautiful, very cute photo shoot. Yes. And do you remember what I told you about your 40th birthday in your 40th year? You remember? Your 40s.

SPEAKER_01: 40:17

Like, you told me my 40s was gonna be my come-up.

SPEAKER_03: 40:21

Yes, my prayer was that your 40s would be the best decade of your life, and that you would see the promises of God, that he will restore the years you've sewn in tears, yes, and that you would see beautiful things happening. And then I feel like your 40th year has been full of challenges. Good. So, how's it going with the 40th decade being the best of your life?

SPEAKER_01: 40:45

I'm firmly into my 40s, you know, at almost 41. Um, nah, it's it's been challenging um financially. Like, it's been a rough year. I was like, oh, and it's very homeowner, very humbling.

SPEAKER_03: 41:01

Congratulations on that, though.

SPEAKER_01: 41:03

Yes, I made my one year as a homeowner. I'm a dog mama.

SPEAKER_03: 41:08

First person in our immediate family to own a home. Yes. Okay, I think that should be, you know, celebrated.

SPEAKER_01: 41:16

It's so funny because, you know, if I could get real on the couch for a second, um, you, you know, you were getting married, and you know, Jared was married for a few years, had the two kids, and I was like, God, I'm leaving here with something. Like, I'm the oldest. Yes, yes. And it was so funny because, you know, we were roommates, we dissolved our, you know, our least ended. I moved back in with mom. Yes, and I was like, this is not it. This is not it. And I said, Lord, because you know my heart, I'm not gonna sit here and pray to you in front. Yeah, I need a W. I need something. Okay. I need, I need something. Now I want a$1,400 apartment because it's I'm I'm so, yes, I'm very, very grateful for my home. I love my home. And um, yeah, so and he blessed me with it. It was a challenge. It was, you know, I had a lender who lied and had to get a new lender who got me closed in 12 days. She was amazing. My realtor was amazing. So God really put the pieces in order for me able for me to be able to get my home. But when I, you know, when I was praying for it, I definitely was like, Lord, this is selfish because I feel failure to launch. I felt very much failure to launch, you know, go working two jobs and going home to the bedroom and my, you know, my mom's house. I was like, this is yeah, this ain't it. Yeah, this is not it. But I'm very proud that I was able to you know to do that on my own.

SPEAKER_02: 43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 43:15

Saving my own money, repairing my own credit, you know, doing all the things that we weren't necessarily taught to do. No.

SPEAKER_03: 43:23

Not necessarily. We were not taught to do it. Our parents still may not know how to do the things. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 43:29

Right. And so I was trying, I was trying to be nice.

SPEAKER_03: 43:33

But God bless them. We love them. But you know, they did not teach us these things. And nobody taught them.

SPEAKER_01: 43:38

Right. And so 40 has been it's been challenging, but it it's it's also been great. It's it's been great. I have, you know, my best friend. We've been friends, you know, we took that trip together um to Mexico for kind of celebrating our 40th, but also celebrating being friends for 32 years. Shout out to Trey. Yes, shout out to Tracy. You know, that's a sister. Shout out to Kendra. Yeah you know, friendships that have maintained, you know, the test of time. We've been friends since we were 12. Yeah. You know, Donna and I have been friends since we were eight. You know, so even celebrating sisterhood in that way, you know, getting to 40 and saying, wow, I've had these friends for 20, some odd, 30 minutes. We do long friendships in our family. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 44:28

Like my aunt's 70th birthday was recently. And uh all of us, our cousins, everybody was there, and my other aunts was there. And I was telling my husband, I was like, gee, that's so-and-so's diamond, that's so-and-so's jasmine, which these are my two best friends, and people who I've known since the first grade that I still talk to all the time, people who I've known since I was 15 that I still talk to all the time. I tell people all the time, you know, every girl in my wedding I had known for uh besides my husband's sisters, I'd known either my whole life because I'm related to them, right? Or I'd known them over 20 years. You know, we do long friendships. We too. And this we too. And this what do you think you know about sisterhood that allows you to have those long relationships? Because so many people, I see it all over the internet, are struggling to find friends as adults.

SPEAKER_01: 45:15

You know, here's the thing, and I it's setting the proper expectations for people, understanding who they are in your life and who you are in their life. And some people you you know that this is your friend that you key with. Yeah, and some people you know this is your friend that you can ugly cry with. You know, understanding their roles in your life and your role in in their life. And then let me tell you something. I might be one of the most unbothered people you might ever want to meet. Like, if you're having a moment and you need space, okay. Yeah, like I don't You weren't always that way. No, I was I'm getting older, yeah, and I don't think I have the bandwidth. They say for care as much. Yeah, I do not, and I say this with all the love in the world. I don't care. Yeah, I don't care.

SPEAKER_02: 46:12

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 46:15

You know, yeah, and you know, you gotta go through what you gotta go through. If if I know I didn't hurt you or do anything to you, yeah. I tell you, you good, yeah, yeah, girl. I just need to. I've gotten there as well. Okay, yeah, I ain't doing 15 checkups.

SPEAKER_03: 46:29

I love you. I ain't asking you 13 times. I'll be here.

SPEAKER_01: 46:31

I'll be here. We good, we good? All right. I have my friend Donna. Me and Donna speak a couple times a year, but when we speak, it's like no time has ever passed. My friend Venesia. We speak, it's like no time has ever passed. So your definition, like you don't always need to be in each other's face or whatever to be sisters and to be friends. You know, we're all adults. We got lives, we got stuff that we're trying to do, taking less stuff personally. Yep. Um, I think that is how you be a sister. Yeah. And you show up when you're needed.

SPEAKER_03: 47:04

And I think you also you have to, you talked about like setting the proper expectations. You also have to really show up for and cherish the people who do show up and cherish for it. Like my best friend Jasmine, Jasmine and Diamond, really, like they are some of the busiest people that I know, but they're not gonna let too many days go by without checking on. They're just not. Absolutely. You know what I mean? Like, they're not gonna let too many days go by without hearing my voice. Right. They're not gonna be like, well, I saw her on social media, so she's good. They wanna know, are you really are you good? What's going on? And not only are you good, let me tell you what's going on in my life. And I think understanding, because so many people fumbled that bag because they don't understand the importance of this is this thing going around now. In order to be a part of a village, you gotta be a villager. Right, you know, and I think there's a loneliness that so many people struggle with because we've gotten too much to the other side of well, everybody's busy and everybody's going to be. Or I'm a match your energy. Yeah, I'm gonna match your energy or whatever. And I think it's important to have the Donna's, it's also important to have the Tracy's. Right. You know, and I have both, you know, I have friends who I speak to a couple times a year. My girl Yanni, you know, me and Yanni, when we talk, it's all good. We'll text. Sometimes we get into these voice notes moments, and this is like sometimes we don't. One of my friends, Yaki, you know, we'll talk when I come to New York. I see she's, you know, someone who's inspired me throughout life. You know, we'll see each other, we'll check in, but it's not an everyday, every week, every month friendship. Then I have people who, if I only heard from them once a month, I'd be offended. Right. Because it's like that's not our relationship. Right. You know what I mean? And so I think just knowing where you stand in people's lives as well.

SPEAKER_00: 48:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 48:41

Because that sometimes you think you number five and somebody's friendless and you're number 10.

SPEAKER_01: 48:47

So that's okay. And what's so funny is that, you know, I'll pret I'll protect some identities. But I have a friend who was telling me, like, oh, this girl wanna hang out with me, and da da da da. She thinks, you know, she's always telling me, oh, best friend this, send me best friend memes, da da da da. And we're not best friends. And I said, maybe you're her best friend. She might not be yours, but maybe you're her best friend. And she's like, that's hard though. I feel like I put it in that position. That is, that is hard. You know, closer to me. And yeah, yeah. But I've been blessed to have some really, you know, good friendships. I've been blessed to even make friends as an adult. Shout out to Christy. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't I last friendship.

SPEAKER_03: 49:37

Friendship before we before I got married. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 49:39

Like, adult friendships are hard. Like, I feel like my long-term friendships, like, I got those in the bag. But adult friendships, adult friendships are hard. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes things happen, life kind of because it things hit different, you know, as an adult. But I'm really, really grateful for the friends that I've made as an adult, you know, as well. The ones that have hung on. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 50:07

For sure. I want to show you a picture. I'm gonna put it on the screen so y'all will see it too. But I want to know what this picture makes you feel when you see it. Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_01: 50:19

Oh, it makes me feel uh Isaiah and Gideon. My nephews. We were just super cute. And it makes me feel like, yeah, this is my baby sister. This is my baby.

SPEAKER_02: 50:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 50:33

Well, and I think when I look at this picture, for me, I feel like it's very symbolic of our relationship still. Like I'm sitting, you're standing with your arm around me, you look very much like, what's going on? I look very much like, is this my side? I got my little glasses on my head, my little bit, we got our little baseball caps on, which we still, this is still pretty much how we dress.

SPEAKER_00: 50:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 51:00

And for me, it's just symbolic of like our bond, even from a young age. I feel like when you were always just there with your arm around me, you know, even from a young age. I have another picture that I'm gonna show you. So when you see this picture, what does this make you think of?

SPEAKER_01: 51:21

Oh, just it's like the other, like the other side of it. Like, girl, we made it. We is here, we is adults, we two different timelines.

SPEAKER_03: 51:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 51:31

Showing up for one another, being there to support you at the time. That was your bridal, your bridal shower day, photo shoot, such something like that. It was a it was a day, it was a wang dang dude. It sure was. Um, but that picture makes me feel very proud. That picture makes me feel very proud.

SPEAKER_03: 51:52

I feel like you will never stop being a big sister, y'all. Everything my sister sees that I'm doing, she cries. Everything. I think she gets more emotional than my parents.

SPEAKER_01: 52:03

I'm like, why does everything that's because I love you more, but that's that's our inside joke.

SPEAKER_03: 52:09

She thinks she loves me more than my parents. I don't think that's possible, but maybe, maybe perhaps. Um, but you get so emotional about all my accomplishments, all the things that I do. What is it about being a big sister that turns that part of your emotions on?

SPEAKER_01: 52:26

Well, you know, here's the thing I don't have kids. You and Jared are my babies. You know, I wasn't just like a big sister. We played together. I was a big sister that made you food. I was a big sister that helped you with your homework. I was a big sister that got you to and from safely. I was a big sister that took you everywhere with me. I was, you know, a parental, I was a parentified um child. And so I don't look at you just like, oh, this is my little kid sister. It really touches something inside of me to see all the things that you are doing. And I mean, I could be anywhere. I could be in the last thing, I was in a Dunkin' Donuts drive-thru, and you sent me a screenshot of something, and I just couldn't have ordered my coffee because I'm just so proud of the woman you are and the woman you're becoming. Um I can't contain myself. I don't, I don't know, girl.

SPEAKER_03: 53:37

I think it's the most adorable thing. I'm like, why are you crying? She's like, I don't know. I'm just so proud of you.

SPEAKER_01: 53:42

I am extremely.

SPEAKER_03: 53:45

It makes me feel very, very accomplished. There are very few people in the world that I care about impressing. You know this. Um, as you know, as much as I do media and all of this stuff. I'm like, is my husband impressed? Is my sister impressed? Like, other than that, maybe Jasmine. She has high standards. I can impress Kenya, you know, there's a few people, maybe five people who I want to be impressed with what I do.

SPEAKER_02: 54:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 54:07

But you are definitely, you know, right up under my husband on that list. He beat you out. So I want to talk about a few things before we go. My sister taught me so much about life and love and relationships and showing up well. You taught me about personal brand, right? Like before branding was a thing. You taught me like when I got a job, you know, like the way you show up is your personal brand. That's how you represent yourself. It's not about who's watching or who can give you accolades or who can give you kudos. You do everything well because that's what we do. You know, um, you taught me about integrity. You know, it's so funny. When I had Jared on the podcast, I was like, What's the one lesson you feel like you learned from me? He said integrity. And I was like, really? I'm like, I must have only taught you that because Sephora talked to me about that. Because that's not, I mean, I really do care about integrity, honestly, but I didn't remember even teaching him that lesson. But I remember you teaching me that lesson and lessons like that. Um, what are some of the things that you still feel like you want to teach me?

SPEAKER_01: 55:10

Oh, girl. I don't know, because I feel like the shoe is on the complete other foot. I learned, I learned so much from you. I want to teach you how to make rice. I made I make perfect rice.

SPEAKER_03: 55:27

My husband is laughing because I cook down, y'all. I throw down. When I tell you I cannot make rice, I make everything else. But I'll be like, listen, we need to buy the 90 second rice for the microwave. We need to go get some rice and peas for this for the Jamaican spot. Um, but my sister does make perfect rice. So yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 55:46

No, no, no. If I can think of something uh serious, I think that I just would want to continue to pour support and confidence and teach you not to second guess yourself by learning not to second guess myself. To understand that when you lean into the Holy Spirit and you're walking that path, just keep putting one foot in front of the other because it's gonna lead you to the place that you need to be. And I feel like that's something I can impart on you and anyone else as I am even learning it, yeah, relearning it myself.

SPEAKER_03: 56:30

Yeah. What's something that you think I'm too hard on myself about?

SPEAKER_01: 56:33

Everything.

SPEAKER_03: 56:39

Pick one thing. Well, go ahead, everything.

SPEAKER_01: 56:42

I think with this new this new media journey that you you're on, I feel like you're very, you know, you're very hard on yourself about how things looked. And I mean, you're getting so much better with it, but I think, you know, you can be kind of hard on yourself about that, but you are very good at not making excuses for yourself as well. So, you know, it's a balance, but this is a rapid fire.

SPEAKER_03: 57:11

What are some things in you that you think I need to imitate?

SPEAKER_01: 57:17

What are some things in in me that I think you need to imitate? Imitate? Yeah. Ooh, girl. We have the same sense of humus.

SPEAKER_03: 57:26

We do have the same sense of humus.

SPEAKER_01: 57:28

Um I think this is a hard question. I'm very sorry that I am having difficulty. Yes, please. In so many ways I feel like you've just surpassed me.

SPEAKER_03: 57:45

That's not true.

SPEAKER_01: 57:46

Yeah, I'm not sure. You don't either already do or do better. That's not true at all.

SPEAKER_03: 58:54

I can think of a few things. So maybe I'll tell you what things I wish I was more like about you. Okay. First and foremost, you are extremely organized. You make a plan, you see it through, you stick to it. That is not my gift at all. Um, I think that there are so many ways in which you are able to not let things rattle you that would take me out. You accept life on life's terms, and you live it. Um, you do not demand your way. There's so much stress. I've gotten a lot better with this, as you know. But there were times in my life where I could not find joy unless something went my way. Down to simple things like where we eat, where we where we shop, you know. And it robbed me of a piece that was unnecessary. And I feel like you live life in such a way that that's like, I'm gonna be okay no matter what happens. I'm not letting y'all stress. I'm not. Letting it stress me out. I think that you are probably the most resilient person that I know. It's easy to look at my life and say, Oh, well, you know, you're doing this right, you're doing this right. I haven't had a whole lot of hardship. I pretty much get what I want. I pray for something, it usually happens. So much so that in this current situation I'm in where God said, mm-mm, I'm like, that's not how this is supposed to go. You're supposed to say yes. Um, and I think you have lived through some difficult no's not yet. I have something better in mind, weight, you know, consequences, things that I just have not had to live through yet. We all have our day that make you rather impressive to me. And there are so many reasons that you are, you know, the person that I call when I'm at my wit's end, when I cannot see the rest of myself, when I cannot see my way through a situation. I would not call someone who I don't feel like I can learn anything from or be like. So I want to give you those flowers. Thank you. Because I think it's crazy that you don't think there's anything I can learn from you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:14

It's not that. Of course, I feel like I can help you through like specific situations, sometimes talk you off the ledge, you know, but but thinking about like, you know, character things and stuff, I feel like I just learn so much from you. Like I said, you're my big little sister, you know, so mature and so much to offer. And I feel like I glean so much.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:41

I hate that people think I'm older than you, too. People be like, you're the older sister, right? No, I'm not. I'm young.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:48

Because all I wear is graphic tees.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:50

I thought you were older one. I'm like, I'm not. Um, but it's it's it's uh our relationship is really a beautiful one, and I really feel very blessed, you know, that you are mine and I am yours. Thank you for that, and that we share so much laughter.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:07

Oh my gosh, I know we kind of boo hoo'd here, but what you were at my house the other night, and I don't know, we were just devolving.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:14

Yes, we laughed just cracking up. I don't even know what we were talking about. We wasn't silly. I had to get my husband from the airport the next morning, and when I got in the car, I told him what time we stayed up, and so he was like, only suffer could get you up that late. Um and it was just great. You know, I think you're probably the only person on earth that could say one word and make me crack up. What's the word?

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:39

Stand back.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:43

You know, we could ask each other rapid fire. What's my favorite song by this person? What's my favorite song by that person? What's my favorite episode of this show? And we will know. We know each other thoroughly and deeply. And I think it really makes for um a comfort. Yes. Right? Like, I know that I don't have to be anybody but your little sister when I'm with you. Right. You know, I don't have to be, even though I love to impress you, I don't have to be impressive. Right. You know, um, I don't have to be super deep and spiritual, you know. I don't have to be happy. You know, one of the things my husband told me, he it was, he's like, I was so shocked when we got married because you're a very sad person. And I am. I'm very melancholy in the depths of who I am. Um, and I think one of the reasons I married my husband, because I always tell you that you two are so alike, it's scary and very annoying. Um, but he can handle me at my sad.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:43

You know, he can handle me at my overthinking, he he can handle me at my fear, at my nervousness, and he can bring me out of it in a way that like makes it less heavy. And I feel like you've been doing that like my whole life, you know, like just making the heavy less heavy and making the joy more joyful. Um, and so I really do appreciate that about you. Really quickly, I think about who we are right now and the women that we are prayerfully becoming. What is one dream you have for our relationship?

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:18

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:19

Sisterhood. Okay, I already know what to do.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:21

So we're gonna get an RV. This is not where I have to have two queen tweets.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:28

Jesus.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:29

And once I when I get a husband, hopefully he might be watching this podcast. Hallelujah. Send it to your single man of God, friends. Um and we're gonna drive across the country. She has been saying this for a long time, you know, but and uh seriously, my husband happens to love road trips.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:52

I do not, so I will be in the bed.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:54

Yes, two queen suites. Seriously, would I I hope and pray for the future of our relationship is just a continued depth for us to be able to always call on one another, always be able to show up for one another. Just literally going the same path that we're going now. It's only gonna get deeper, and it's only, you know, gonna get better. I see, you know, and pray for in the future that one day you'll be accepting an award, and I'll be boohooing in the audience because I will be boohooing uh for sure. I just look forward to just growing old.

unknown: 1:05:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:44

You know, being old ladies together.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:47

Old ladies and a new sense to our our family members. Um, there's a question that I wanted to ask that I forgot to ask, so I'll just ask it and maybe we'll edit it in, or maybe we'll just keep it right here. Whatever. I want to talk about your relationship with our parents, right? I think that your relationship with our mom has informed my relationship with our mom. And I think my relationship with our dad has informed your relationship with our dad. Does that make sense? Yes to you? Do you feel the same way? I can't I I never thought about it like that, but yes. Okay, so for me, I grew up seeing my sister be very interdependent with my mom. My mom needed her, and in some ways she needed my mom for approval, for validation, and all that stuff. And I think at a very young age, this didn't come to me until I went to therapy. Um, but I realized at a very young age, I decided, oh, I'm not gonna have that relationship with my mom. Like, I am not going to be her right hand. You know, like I have my own dreams, I have my own things I want to do, I'm gonna do my own thing. Um, and I'm not gonna need her for validation. I would like her validation, but I'm not gonna need it, right? And then I think how I informed your relationship with our dad is because I came to, and I've spoken about this on other episodes, so go back and watch the episode of my mom, my dad, my brother. I I came to a forgiveness of and an understanding of our dad, which I think because you trust me, you trusted that you could go there as well.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:22

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:23

And I think that with our mom, there's been so many conversations and healing that I feel like I have fostered in you all's relationship that has actually made me and her relationship better and more honest, where we could have certain depth of conversation. And so when it when you think about your relationship with our parents from childhood to now, what are some of the feelings that come up, good or bad?

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:51

Um, I think that, you know, always had what I thought was, you know, a good relationship with mom until I got a little older and things started to frustrate me. And, you know, bickering and things like that because I was I was triggered and didn't really deal with it. Um, but I think now that I've had my own bow with therapy and had some honest conversations, some of them, like you said, fostered by you. I think our relationship is great. Me and mom speak every day, probably twice a day.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:28

You make me look bad because she'll be like, Stuff calls me every day. And I'm like, that's not happening over here, sister. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:36

You know, also I don't call dad every day either. I don't call my every dad. I don't I don't call you every day. No, you don't.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:42

I think my my mom thinks that I'm not.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:44

People think we speak every day, but we think we don't.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:46

But we do, I speak to you more than anybody in our family.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:50

Yeah, I think that it has, you know, one thing mom does is respect me as an adult. Yes, you know, and so even hard conversations we're able to have because we're two adults, and I'm I'm never gonna disrespect my mom, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:09

She also gets there very quickly. Yes, you know, she may not start there, but she gets there rather quickly, I think, with us.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:16

Yeah, and um she listens and she really tries because I think when it all boils down to it, mom wants great relationships with us, and so the humility is there and it helps you to be humble as well. So yeah, love my mama. Yeah, my dad, like you said, you become a- Will you say you and Mama Best Friends?

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:41

That's my dog.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:42

Yeah, I feel like y'all's my road dog, yeah. She's supposed to come over next Friday and watch a movie. Yeah. Um, and I called, I was like, I need to watch this movie with you. Yeah, you know, yeah, that's my dog. That's my dog. I think our relationship has grown because now we we used to run in the same circle a lot, yeah, also, which I think was frustrating. So you took a long time. She's got some friends, and I've got some friends, and now us coming together. It's like because we want to be together.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:10

You got 37, why are you with the 60 year olds?

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:13

I do like the 60-year-olds, but you know, I gotta, you know, yeah, back up a little bit.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:20

Um and they were her friends first, uh huh. You know, to her credit. So it's like that girl, you coming up in my friend group and acting like you don't want me here.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:28

Right. So, you know, I had to had to do that. But I feel like have a great relationship with mom. I have a great relationship with dad. Dad's very protective of me.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:38

Yes, he is.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:39

Um, doesn't want me doing too much for anybody, even him. He's you know, tries not to call me, ask me too many questions, and da-da-da-da-da. But um, you know, like you said, you having that conversation that come to Jesus moment with dad allowed me to have one too.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:55

And um it's it's been good. It's been really good as an adult having these relationships with um with our parents. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:04

I feel so blessed. And I think, like, even right now, I feel like I'm in a season with my relationship with mom where I'm just seeing her as a woman.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:13

And like, this is gonna sound weird, but like falling in love. Right. All the things. That's a weird thing to say, but like I'm like, oh wow, like you're really great, you know. Not that I didn't think that before, but just I just see her differently now than I think I did growing up.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:32

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:33

And I see her for all the ways she does try, all the way she does show up. Like, I think me for a long time I didn't want kids. So now that I'm thinking that I'm, you know, may want to be a mom, I think about her as a mom. Ugh. Right. Like, there's so much I would want to imitate from her as a mom. Right. You know, obviously there are things I wouldn't, everybody has stuff, yeah, but the fun. Yes, we had a oh my goodness. The fun, our house was so fun, you're like, you know, and the talks, you know. I think our mom was always someone we could just go sit in her bed and talk to her. Yeah, go sit in her bed and watch. We could, my mom was very interruptible. Yeah, we could just go on and watch a lifetime with her or call in her bed or call her or whatever. And I feel like our relationship will grow even more when I have children. It definitely because I am going to need her. Like there are things that mom has that I just don't naturally have. And she tells me they're gonna come, and I'm like, they're not. They're not. I'm my father's daughter in some ways, you know, and I'm gonna need mom to like teach me how to be like she was, you know. Um, and I think that there's so much of her in you as well, so much of the beauty of how she shows up in a room, you know, she's crazy, it's all get out. Um, and sometimes you gotta be like, Ma, chill out. But for the most part, she really does brighten any room that she's in.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:14

And she's a good friend, you know, she's she's very responsible, reminds me of you, very responsible, you know, in terms of like how her mother could depend on her. And I think that there are just so many things that seeing you guys' relationship heal has made me trust her more, you know, because I'm like, okay, cool. Like, I don't know, I don't know how to explain that well. And I'm usually really good at it. You explained it. Okay. I think that was good. Yeah, it that it makes me like have a close feel a closer relationship with her because I'm also very protective of you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:46

Yes. Solange in an elevator.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:53

If I'm gonna crash out behind anybody, please do not make my sister cry. Please do not hurt my sister's feelings, please do not take advantage of my sister. Please, I beg of you. There are people who I have not said anything to about stuff I don't like because you have asked me to, but if it was up to me, yeah, baby, you know. Um, and so I think seeing you guys mend your relationship has made me be like, oh yeah, okay, cool, you know. Um, and also just a talk that she and I had a couple of years ago, where she shared with me like something that I was doing that was hurting her that I just had no, like I had no idea was bothering her. Um, and it just made me see her like as a woman, like, oh yeah, like she's a woman before she's my mother. And I think that's such a important realization for you know adult children to come to because our parents are just trying their best, you know, they're trying to get it right. And I think of that. So, anyway, something that I would imitate from mom is the fun and just also the great debt that we owe her by way of teaching us to be faithful to Jesus. That part, um, teaching us the word. So much stuff that we did not get into at a young age is because of the way she ran our household. Yes, you know. Um, my mother was not playing, you know what I'm saying, when it came to us doing the right thing and um us knowing our word for ourselves. She used to say, even if I tell you something, go back to the Bible and find it for yourself. I mean, she was saying this stuff to us when we was like seven.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:36

Like nine, twelve, you know. I think about it now and I'm like, wow, I really do want to teach my children to have their own personal relationship with the father because it gives them an opportunity to go through the ebbs and flows of that relationship, which will inevitably come and go back.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:55

Always find their way back to center.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:57

And I think that's something that she did really well. I think in terms of dad, something that I think I I've always wanted you to feel, and I think you feel it now, is how much he loves us as his daughters.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:13

You know, for the longest time, I just knew you were dad's favorite.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:18

I just a little bit. You're mom's favorite, though. Am I? Oh, absolutely. You sure it's not Jared? Jared's both their favorite, and for other reasons. They will do things for Jared that they will not do for us. Yeah. He's he's the real favorite of the play. Right. Right. But yes. Um, dad would not say I'm his favorite, but I'm his favorite.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:37

I I think so. I think so.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:40

And mom would not say you're her favorite, but you are.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:43

Um, you know, for the longest time, but I know dad loves me. I know dad loves me very, very much.

SPEAKER_05: 1:16:52

They love us differently.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:53

Yes. And that I understand now. Before I just didn't. We're different people. And we resonate with them differently.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:02

Mom and I are a lot more alike. You and dad are way more alike. Dad's great. Yeah. Dad's a great friend. He's a great sounding board. He cracks me up. Yes. Both of our parents. Um. Yeah. And I, you know, because I live so close to the airport, I always get to pick him up. He always gets to stay with me, you know, first. And um, you know, he's always like, I don't want to be inconvenienced, you know what I'm saying? And I'm like, that is fine. You know, he will show up and help me if I if I need anything, if I'm struggling, you know, without even asking, I'll have a Zell.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:40

You know, and that that's the type of man, you know, dad is. And I think, you know, like you talked about on the couch with Jared, we when we were all at one point like, is that okay? You know, but I think that shows that if you still have time, yeah, if God wakes you up, you know, you can make any change that you want to make. And that's what I see in my dad. Yeah. He decided that he wanted to change his relationship with his kids, and he did it humbly. Yeah. He did it on our terms, and it has been great.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:17

Yeah. Yeah. I love it. What I always tell people is he did it humbly but confidently. Yes. There was no like, if you would have me. It was like, I'm your father. I care about you. I love you. I'm not going to impose my way. Right. This is what I, you know, this is what I think, and I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:33

And, you know, about the past, and I'm ready to move forward if you are, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:37

Um, and it's one of the most manly things I've ever seen. And I think that so much of who I am and be will become is because of the confidence that has been instilled in me by both my parents, you know. Um, I always talk about how we never we were our gifts were never put down. Right. Whatever we wanted to do or thought we could do, our parents supported it. They tried to help us with it. Um, they gave us except dance.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:05

They took me about a dance.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:07

That's not your gift.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:08

No, no.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:08

You can bust a little wine though. But um, but um, but yeah, I think there's just we've been very blessed in that way to have that. And I think it's informed our sisterhood and just our bond as siblings, like even with our brother. We've been through some stuff, boy. Yeah, we've been through some stuff, yeah. But the three of us will always show up for each other. Um, the three of us will always take care of each other, the three of us will always support each other in a way that I think allows us to make them proud.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:44

Yes. I hope so.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:45

Yeah, I think so. I think our parents are are extremely proud of us. There's so many questions I didn't get to. I ask you this selfishly because I do this, I did this with everybody else who was on the podcast, the family members. And this is you know what, this is great because you're here rounding out. Now I have done my entire immediate family. So I'm blessed. Period. Okay. She's a Leo. Um so with that being said, though, and on a serious tip, you know, what do you feel like is the best lesson, the most important lesson that you've learned from me?

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:25

The most important lesson that I've learned from you is to literally let myself in. Not just, you know, this podcast, but not just because it's the name of the podcast, but literally watching you let yourself into whatever it is that you wanted to do, whether it was your spoken word, poetry, whether it was music, whether it was ministry, whether it was this media thing that you have going on now, you took it to the father, and I never forget you told me, you were talking about music at the time. You said, I don't want it to not work because I didn't do the work. I want it to not work because God said no, but not because I didn't do the work.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:11

And that is one of the biggest lessons I've learned from you is I want it to not work because God said, no, honey, this is not for you. Not because I was lazy about it and didn't put forth my best effort.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:23

Yeah. I love that. I'm glad that you've learned that from me. And I feel like um there's so much more. We gotta have you back because we didn't even get into Sapphi cakes. We didn't even get into all the career stuff that you're gonna have going on. But I'm glad we didn't get into it because when we do an episode on, you know, you being a pastry chef and all the things you do, I want the people to have something to go purchase. So we're gonna bring you back to talk about that. Maybe we'll do like into entrepreneurship or something like that. But I just want you to know, you know, as my sister, as the person who I feel like knows me best, you know, has seen me from the rooter to the tutor. Maybe that's too much information. But, you know, um, has been there for me, you know, in every single era, every stage of my life. There really is no me without you. You know, there really is none. All the beautiful things you think you see in me and the personality stuff and whatever you think you like about me, it really is a summation of the lessons that I've learned from you, the things I've watched and observed and imitated from you. Our laughs are just a solve for my soul. You know, when days are hard, when days are long, when I'm frustrated, when I'm angry, um, I know I can call you and, like you said, be talked off the ledge. But I know I'm gonna laugh at some point in the conversation. I know that we're gonna have moments of depth. I know that you're gonna pray for me. I know that you're gonna pray with me. I know that when one of our parents does something crazy, I can call you. Or when our brother does something crazy, or when one of our family members does something crazy, I can say, now, girl, and that's all I gotta say. You know, sometimes we call each other. What's the first thing we say? You know, you know, and what we just bust out laughing because we know the other one is about to, you know, split the team or commens, we're gonna commensurate with one another. And there's just so much, you bring so much joy to my life, girl. Like my goodness. And um, so I just want you to know I love you. I'm so grateful for you. I'm so grateful that you're still here. Yes, that part by the grace of God, and um, my prayer is that we can look back at this interview in five years and laugh about all the ways that we can watch it in the RV. Amen. You can watch it. We ask a question here at the end of our show. In the grand scheme of things, what do you want your legacy to be?

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:50

I love my family and I love the Lord. That's it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:55

That's it. It's a great way to end the show. Thanks for being here, Seth. Thanks for having me, ladies and gentlemen. My big sister, Sephora Gerald. Follow her on all the things. You want the people to follow you or no? Sometimes you don't want people to follow her.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:06

Um, sure. At Sefi underscore cakes on Instagram. That's S-E-F-F-I-E underscore cakes on Instagram.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:15

Yes, cakes because she bakes, not for any other reason.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:19

Yes, you'll see the the cakes that I bake. Yes, on my on my Instagram.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:25

This is Father. Yes, okay. Let's make it clear. Uh, this has been another episode of I'll Just Let Myself In With Your Girl Lish Speaks. Thank you so much for joining, for listening, for watching from wherever you did. If you're listening from Holy Culture, Sirius XM Station 140 on a Monday night at 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. We thank you for being there. If you're watching on Holy Culture's YouTube, thank you for watching there. If you happen to be on my YouTube, Lish Speaks, thank you for watching here and make sure that you subscribe.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:52

Subscribe.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:52

Subscribe.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:53

Subscribe.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:54

Period. Now, if you're listening on a podcast app, please leave a review. Please go ahead and rate us five stars, thumbs up, all the things. These things help to push the podcast out in the algorithm and allow more like-minded people to find our content. Most of all, what you can do to help us out the most is send this directly to someone who you think will benefit from it, who you think will enjoy it, who you think will be blessed by it. Once again, thank you so much for watching, and we'll be back here next week. Same time, same place. Peace.