I'll Just Let Myself In

Into Legacy: A Conversation with Dr. Bobby Jones

• Lish Speaks

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In this powerful episode, Lish sits down with gospel pioneer and cultural icon Dr. Bobby Jones for an intimate conversation on faith, purpose, and legacy. From building platforms that reshaped gospel music and media to remaining anchored in God through decades of influence, Dr. Jones shares wisdom on leadership, obedience, and the responsibility that comes with impact. This episode invites listeners into the heart of a man whose life’s work has been rooted in service, faith, and excellence.

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SPEAKER_06:

So when you came down the red carpet, I asked you, would you be my mentor? Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04:

And you said the other music gives them a little comfort spirit about what life is on Earth. We talk about life after we leave Earth. I mean, you can't be fair, baby.

SPEAKER_06:

Yes, but when you think about being on television, people seeing you all over the world, and knowing that as a black man, right, this was something that was hard to come by. Do you realize that there's been no replication of that? And the and the slick hair. Yeah. That's the Mother Jones I remember.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm glad you didn't see the other one.

SPEAKER_06:

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to a very special episode of I'll Just Let Myself In. This is the podcast where we don't wait for any imaginary permission slip or some seat at an imaginary table. We walk through our God-given doors. Today, I have a pioneer, someone who walked through his God-given doors in the area of media when there was no example for him. I have the Dr. Bobby Jones with me today. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_04:

What a pleasure it is to be here.

SPEAKER_06:

I'm excited.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm excited just to be with you.

SPEAKER_06:

I'm excited. So let me tell you guys how I met Dr. Bobby Jones. A couple of weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

I was on, it feels like longer than that because now, you know, we're friends. But a couple of weeks ago, I was doing the red carpet for the BMI Trailblazer of Gospel Honorary Award Ceremony, which for John P. Key. And uh, you know, when I saw they give you this paper, for those of you who don't know, when you are doing a red carpet, you don't know who's gonna be on the red carpet before you get there, you know, as media. You kind of get there, you get your space, it's how you were gonna say you're gonna stand. It's 15 other people, it's very crowded.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, and then they give you a paper that tells you who is slated to come down the red carpet. Some people show up, some people don't. So I get this paper and I'm I'm just looking through the pages and I see Dr. Bobby Joe. And I told my husband, I'm like, baby, do you see this? It was you, I'm telling you, I'll be honest. You and Kirk Franklin, I was super excited. I was like, I have to get these two people. And God allowed me to get with these. So when you came down the red carpet, I asked you, would you be my mentor? And you said sure. And I said, I'm gonna hold you to that. I'm gonna have my people find your people. And I just want to say for everybody, this man held his word. When my manager reached out to your people, he said, You called him back. And we were so shocked by that because we meet a lot of people in this industry. You know how it goes.

SPEAKER_04:

I do.

SPEAKER_06:

Some people just talk the talk. Yes, you know, and you kept your word, we set up this interview, and now we're here.

SPEAKER_04:

Here we are.

SPEAKER_06:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06:

Thank you for your yes.

SPEAKER_04:

All right.

SPEAKER_06:

Okay, so we are in the uh we're in an exhibit at the National Museum of African American Music. Yes. Where you and many of your counterparts are honored. Uh some of your awards and even outfits are on display.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_06:

How does it feel to be in a space like this honoring your work?

SPEAKER_04:

I'm very honored to be there. I think it's a magnificent. I never never thought about it as we were doing what we do. And then we found out that this museum was gonna be here in Nashville, Tennessee. They called it Music City USA, as you know. And then when we were selected, you know, gospel usually on the back ship. Yeah. Most situations. I was overwhelmed by it. Yeah. Yeah. So I became a member of their board as well and and worked quite diligently to see that people know that we have this here in Nashville.

SPEAKER_06:

It's incredible. And just walking around with you, looking at, you know, some of the the facts and and and things around, it was a little overwhelming because I realized I would not be able to do what I do without this rich history that you're such an integral part of. Before we get to your incredible, groundbreaking, longest-running show on cable, television, network show, which we'll get to, I want to talk a little bit about the boy, Bobby Jones.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

How you were raised in a small town, right? Said about 600 people from what I read.

SPEAKER_04:

How many? 600 is what I read. Is that true? That's a lot.

SPEAKER_06:

You went to a school where grades what, K through eight or one through eight met in one room.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, in one room.

SPEAKER_06:

From that you got more than one PhD and have done some incredible things. Tell me what about that upbringing made you who you are today.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I had great teachers. Uh I had great desires. And uh I guess because we could hear what other students were doing in grades above us, that it kinda gave us another step. You know, we never thought about it then. Yeah. You know, but when you think about that, you know, I had eight eighth graders in in in my in my first grade classroom, you know. And then the eighth graders had kindergar well not kindergarten. First grade kindergarten wasn't even in video. Wasn't a thing. Really? No, no, no, no, no, no. It's w grade one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. So, and then uh we could hear and what they were doing. And so I think that kind of increased my knowledge base, you know, but what they were doing in the eighth grade, and I'm sitting in the second, third, fourth, fifth grade, and so now I can hear what they are doing there. That did give me a step up. And I I think that was one of the reasons why I moved through so early. And I moved through uh those grades from one through uh eight very easily. So we hear some some more music going on where we are, so we stopped for a second.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

But that that's what intrigued me about it. I think that's what gave me a a a step ahead. Yeah. You know, I finished when I was uh 15. Yeah, that was high school though.

SPEAKER_06:

You finished college at 19.

SPEAKER_04:

19, yes.

SPEAKER_06:

I might know more about you than you know about you.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, you seem like you do. But guess how guess how uh old I was when I left the elementary school?

SPEAKER_06:

Tell me 11. Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06:

Okay. So you've always been somewhat ahead of your time.

SPEAKER_04:

You can say that. You can say that, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

And how many languages do you speak?

SPEAKER_04:

I don't speak any. I try to speak English. Okay. You sound like me.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, no, but I know you speak a little French. Well, I heard you speak a little French.

SPEAKER_04:

Just a few words here and there. Yeah. That's good to be in a jubilee. Are you good today? Yes. Come over to Pedro Sibu Play. What is your name?

SPEAKER_06:

You sound, listen, you can tell me anything. I don't I wouldn't know the difference.

SPEAKER_04:

I have fun with it. And the reason why I use it a lot is because uh if I don't use it, I lose it.

SPEAKER_00:

I love it.

SPEAKER_04:

And I want to can keep it as long as I possibly can. Absolutely. Not too many of us speak another language, and that's one of the things about Americans that I think we lift ourselves because other nations and and all they can speak other languages. But most Americans only speak English. Yes.

SPEAKER_06:

Yes, and we believe it's superior. So yeah, I I see that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

So, you know, you graduated high school and college early. Yeah. Right. You uh were professor at some points.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_06:

Uh, I know that you played the piano, and that's kind of what got you going. Oh, right. You talking about your mom being shocked. Like, since when did you play the piano?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and if you had heard me, you'd have wondered when my aunt had a piano in her house when I came to Nashville to go to Tennessee State University. And so I had to live with them. I couldn't we didn't have money enough for me to stay on campus. And uh, she could play the piano by ear and sing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And I was intrigued by what she was doing. So when she wasn't there, I would go in that room and and teach myself how to play the piano.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So one day I was listening to the radio station, a gospel station in Nashville, and a lady came on the air and said, We're looking for somebody to play for our Sunday school. And my ears popped up. I said, Oh, oh, oh, I'm gonna try that. So the church was called First Street Baptist. I'm Methodist, but this was Baptist. And so I went down and tried out for it, and they hired me. And I couldn't play with three fingers on this hand and two fingers on this hand. And I taught myself how to play in in uh G, C, and F. That was the only keys I could play with. And then after being there in that particular church, and I started playing for a choir and just kept on doing things, you know, and ended up in gospel music as an artist. Can you believe that? I can believe it. I can believe it.

SPEAKER_06:

And what I love about you know what I read about your story and what I listened to was that you had this desire to just see gospel music grow. So you decided, I'm gonna start a show, a local show. So you thought. But God had other plans. At that time, I know that you aired 1980, but I'm guessing the show started 1976.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06:

So in 1976, right? It's not like today where everyone has a camera. Everyone, if at least you have your phone.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

But if not, you get you can go to Best Buy and get a camera. You can set up wherever you're at, get some lights, you can order this stuff on Amazon, it'll be at your door the next day, right? Yeah. It was not like that.

SPEAKER_00:

No.

SPEAKER_06:

1976, you have to this is a full production. When you were thinking about starting this show, you know, how did you get the funds, the backing? How did you make this production come to life?

SPEAKER_04:

You know, well, actually, we didn't have any funds. Uh the the network that we were on, they offered us two or three hundred dollars or something like that. I don't know. And we had no money to pay anybody. We couldn't do anything. Um but just afraid that we could do what we did. Of course, they gave us the space uh to do the show. When I went to them to ask if they would consider because we were in uh the affirmative action period and we knew that they needed some black programming. Yeah. And they didn't have anybody doing anything for television in Nashville. And after I told them it was a gospel show, would you give us an opportunity? And they said yes. Yes. And uh that was the beginning of that. So with no money, no, you know, not even organized, uh, I had some skills that I brought with with with me when I worked for a raw hill publishers, a textbook consultant. I went all over the country teaching children how to read phonetically. So that's really how we got started. Uh uh the station paid us uh maybe a hundred or two hundred dollars, something like that a week. And then I was able to give a little bit to the musicians and whatever. But nothing for myself.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

Never did that and didn't care. Yeah. You know, I just really wanted to do it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so little did I know about gospel music because as I mentioned, we were in the Methodist church and we did not sing gospel music. We thought that was not right. You know, down there. You know how we were. And so emotional and you know Yeah, too emotional and all that because in the Methodist church you just sit and look, you know, and nod and nothing else. So to make that transition from Methodist to to Baptist and to hear the music, and I just got in just loved it, you know. Yeah. And uh then I heard about James Cleveland had a gospel music workshop of America. So I started attending that and it was blowing me away. Yeah. Yeah. That was my first chance to hear a number of different singers in situations.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah. I saw a video with you and James Cleveland on YouTube.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_06:

It says it's from 1963. I don't know if that was real or not, that that time.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_06:

But that's what it says.

SPEAKER_01:

1963.

SPEAKER_06:

And I thought it might have said 73. It was one of the threes. But I thought to myself, this man has been an influence in the lives of gospel legends since before I was even thought about. I wasn't even a thought to my parents. When you look at that from you know, where gospel is gone to where it is now, I've heard you say in the past, it doesn't matter what I think about it. As long as God is being glorified, I'm fine with it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

But I do want to know what you think about it. What do you think about gospel music today?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, I think it's a great art form, spiritual. And uh that it does a lot more than some other music does. Because we have the ability to save people's lives. You know, the other music gives them a little comfort spirit about what life is on earth. But we talk about life after we leave Earth. I mean, you can't be that baby. And to create music and lyrical content that will give people uh encouragement and because that's what the lyrical content does, it gives them a s uh ability to to look at something spiritually as well as everyday life.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And uh that was interesting to me. And because of me being a teacher, uh this also helps me to understand more how to deliver the message. So that which was very important. You know. So if we wanted to gather all kinds of denominations and and ethnicities that you have to listen to television on a black network, which was the a new thing as well, the first one.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, isn't that interesting how God would put that in front of us?

SPEAKER_04:

It is the first black gospel network, and here I am on it, because Bob Johnson was looking for some music or some content uh from black people so he could put it on his network.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And here we were.

SPEAKER_06:

And here we are. Yeah. When Bob Johnson called you and said, Hey, this, I want to put this show on television, what was your initial thought?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, you know, I I had never heard of uh a black station, and that's what he was telling me that he wanted to do. So I was all in, you know, if it was gonna move out of Nashville, uh in addition to what we were doing here, I said, Yes, sir. You know, we we we we are very proud that you like the show well enough to want to put it on your network. And there we went.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, yeah. And it's so funny because talking to my parents, you know, there was definitely at that time, it's like if a black person was on television, everybody gathered around to try and see it. Because we're just like, we're here, we're in a show. Even if it was a small part of a show, you know, everyone will watch that show to just see a black person on television. Um, one, you were a black man, right? Well, well groomed. You always had you always had the suits.

SPEAKER_04:

Was that when you groomed?

SPEAKER_06:

You had a little frown, little mustache.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't know about that. I saw it.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, and you're on this show and you're talking about Jesus, saying the name of Jesus, right? This was no uncertain terms that this was a gospel show.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

Did you ever face or receive any backlash from your community or others for the show?

SPEAKER_04:

Not directly. Um, people had an opportunity to write to us after we'd been on television for a while and say what their thoughts were about it. And uh many of them told me that I couldn't sing it. Don't don't do it. Hurt my feelings. Hurt my feelings. I said, I know I'm not a gospel singer, but I'm gonna try to make it work for me. But but really, we never did get any anything that was seriously disturbing. Okay. And uh because you're gonna always find somebody who likes and somebody who doesn't, probably. But we very seldom did we get anything that would be a a negative influence on what we were doing.

SPEAKER_06:

I love that. That's awesome. So obviously, you went from recording and producing yourself in Nashville or a smaller station and kind of sending the footage to the network of BET to then BET coming in and helping to produce the.

SPEAKER_04:

But B.E.T. didn't join us. We were we were on for years before uh BET, before we started working at B.E.T. Oh, yeah. I produced the Bobby Jones uh gospel or maybe at least uh 15 years or so before we started going to B.Et, and then they produced it in their studios, which gave us more uh visibility in terms of the shiny suits and the and the and the slick hair.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, that's the Bobby Jones I remember.

SPEAKER_01:

That's who I saw growing up. I'm glad you didn't see the other ones. Yes, who was that?

SPEAKER_06:

The shiny suit? Yeah, a nice three-piece with the best. You know where that came from?

SPEAKER_04:

Vicky Winins.

SPEAKER_06:

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04:

Vicky Winins ran into a man in New York called Panzai. That makes sense. And and he was he had a store that had these type of clothes there. And uh she brought me one one day and said, You need to wear that. And that was the beginning of the game. And that was the beginning of the shiny suit era. And now they're popular today.

SPEAKER_06:

Very much so. Very much so. Listen, let's talk. You talked about Vicky Wynins. So that last name in and of itself is, you know, legendary in the gospel world. You have so many people who came through the gospel world and their first ever television appearance, period, was on your show. Yeah. They may have been doing the circuits, doing concerts, different things, but their first ever nationally, you know, televised show was on your channel, on B on your show on BET.

SPEAKER_04:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

How does it feel to have been the conduit, right? Because you you've just been a vessel for so many.

SPEAKER_04:

You know, uh, as long as we were there, we were there for 35 years on BET, we never really understood the impact that the show was having. We knew that we were playing all over the world finally, uh, but it just didn't dawn on us that we were making a contribution and that we had that many people that were checking us out, you know. Uh, because gospel music was not accepted very well during that early period of my life. I mean, some of the churches didn't even want gospel music. In fact, we didn't have instruments in our churches until after a long time. People didn't realize that. Yes. Nothing but a piano or an organ. No drums, no horns of any type, you know. So, you know. Now we're sitting here in a museum in Nashville, and you can hear the music, the gospel music that we did, and that was started by the one who developed contemporary gospel music, which was Edwin Hawkins singing Oh Happy Days.

SPEAKER_06:

Yes, and Hawkins authors are still doing incredible things in in the music world as well, which is that legacy.

SPEAKER_04:

So any kind of comments that we received basically were was relatively supportive, I would say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Love that. So, you know, as you were really big brother, uncle, maybe dad figure to some of these gospel artists that we now know and love, who are legends in their own right, you know. You were already almost 20 years in the game when people like Kirk Franklin became popular.

SPEAKER_04:

Exactly right. You know? Because he was a little boy. And you mean you know he looked like it was. Kirk, that's I didn't say that.

SPEAKER_06:

But the truth is, you know, you talk about Kirk Franklin came out in '92, popular, really popular. He was working before that. But in 92, 93, I mean, you had already been doing this.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

And so when they would come to you, if they would come to you for advice or, you know, they're nervous about their first television appearance. What were some of those conversations like with you as big brother, maybe mentor in this world for that?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, you know what I did? I started uh uh developing what we call a conversation uh piece for my shows. And so during the daytime we would basically we would have different meetings where we invite record label people to come in and anybody who was working in the gospel music industry. So that gave them some exposure. So I had to put education with it because that's what I came from uh as an educator. So that gave me an opportunity to let them know something about the industry, uh specifically how how it works and what it can give to them. Not only just the industry uh information, but performance information as well. So and we talk about dress and we talked about the language and and all the things that would make for bringing an audience into what it is that we did. And what helped me to do that was because I had an opportunity to work I mentioned it uh earlier a little bit about McGraw Hill. McGraw Hill was is a was one of the best book companies and still is in America. And so when I traveled around the country with them teaching children how to read, uh that gave me uh a chance to get exposed to how we can teach the vernacular elements of what we did. So that helped a great deal.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah. When you see uh where media is going, right? Because we have so many media companies now. People can put out their own content on their YouTube. People can you can start your own media company at everyone.

SPEAKER_04:

Altogether different, isn't it? Well, that's what that's what that's what time does.

SPEAKER_06:

But that's what you did it for, though, right? Like you literally laid the groundwork in the foundation. I asked you this question. Right. Uh, when we were on the red carpet, I asked you what would your advice be to a young person coming up in media, want to do it for God, and you said to me, What did I say? What did I say? You said you gotta keep God first. I said if it's really for him, okay, it has to be about him.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

And that was Did I tell you that? You did. All right, you did. And it was foundational for me because I think it's easy. You know, we we all start from a pure place in heart.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

But then you get the lights and the cameras. And it's easy to start making it about self or about money or about contracts.

SPEAKER_04:

Very much.

SPEAKER_06:

How did you stay grounded?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, let me tell you. Having the opportunity to go to various concerts around the country, to see the gospel music stars, as we'll call them, one that people knew a lot, and then to watch the reactions and some instance when after they had finished and and some of the fans would want to say and greet them and meet them, and to see how some of them didn't get the message. You know, they were like uh not being Christian-like. So I thought it was again, I thought this was an opportunity for us to at least exhibit some ill to give them some ways of seeing how you should be as a especially a gospel artist.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So that was that was keen on my mind. And being a teacher was a was was uh I taught grades from one through through the college level. This gave me some uh an opportunity to use those skills. So that's how God worked that out. Yeah, you know, he knew what he's he set me up to to go through these varying steps prior to coming on television.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah. It seems like you, and I've heard other people say this when they've interviewed you, you just have a very down-to-earth, um, not at all unaware of your impact. You know, you have the confidence of understanding what you what you've done, but it doesn't color your behavior or the way you treat people. And that is I just want to give you your flowers, yes. Country boy. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_04:

As you said, we came from this little town of about you said 600, probably three or four. One stop like something like that. Yeah, and I never never wanted to elevate myself. So that's and and when I saw how that was working with some of the people, I said, nah, I told my people, we don't do that. You know, we have a good attitude, we talk to people and you know, yeah, be a part.

SPEAKER_06:

I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_04:

And I'm still that way.

SPEAKER_06:

You are very much so. Um, a lot of times when people meet you, they're not always coming from a Christian background, right?

SPEAKER_03:

They may be exactly right.

SPEAKER_06:

No one may even know that they identify as Christian or they may not even identify as Christian, but they come up to you and they tell you the impact you had on them. I know some of them get emotional because you remind them of their, you know, loved ones who may no longer be with us anymore, the grandmothers and different things like that.

SPEAKER_04:

Um let me stop you on that and tell you exactly because you're exactly right. They would when they come to me, and I'm talking about the basketball players. You know, I played basketball in high school, by the way, and I was very good. That's right. You played basketball? Yeah, I was good. I was good at it. And and they would say, if if it was like uh Kobe Bryant or something, I remember when he came up and said, My grandmother made me get up on Sunday morning and says a black man on television singing gospel music, go down there and listen to it. And so that came about so often from people in other walks of life that came to me along with the the church guards. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, now I cut you off somewhere. No, it's all good.

SPEAKER_06:

And I heard you say one time in an acceptance speech that sometimes they treat you better than some of the people in the gospel world. Let me find my camera and let me tell you something, okay? Yeah. When you see uncle, granddad, whatever you want to call him, depending on how old you are, right? Friend, Dr. Bobby Jones. Uh-huh. Act like you got some good sense, okay? And give this man the respect that he has earned. You've earned it.

SPEAKER_03:

Good, thank you.

SPEAKER_06:

We're not giving you something just to give it to you. You've earned it.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06:

I want to ask you a selfish question.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

I am new to media.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

I have big dreams, big aspirations. I'd love to have a show one day and all that good stuff. I saw you on Sherry Shepard, and I was like, oh, I would love to be just like an incredible interview. Sherry, call me. I have ideas. But you know, I want to do that level of television, but I want to, I really do want to do it for Christian media. I really do want to do it because here's my belief. When you do something that is true to who you are, God will use it to affect the masses. Some people will say, well, if you just do it for Christians, you'll alienate people. But that's not true. Like you said, all people from all walks of life come to you. So selfishly.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

But my audience will also benefit from this. What advice would you give right now in this climate of where we are in the United States, in this climate of where we are in gospel music, to people who want to specifically do media, because that's different than artists, that's different than making music, that's different than you know, the media side of it is different. And it takes a lot of courage. You know, I spend a lot of I mean, we've talked off camera. I do a lot of research. It just takes a lot of time, but I have a passion for it, and I know so many of my viewers do as well. What encouraging advice can you give us?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, you know, if you have a desire and you really, really want to commit yourself to it, and if you're spiritual, I put that in there. You don't everybody who's going to be big aren't spiritual, you know. But you have to love what you do. Get in a place where people are who do it so you can learn it. Study it. You know, and um don't be don't be uh threatened by whatever your level that you're on in your thinking because you can always grow and know that. So I think that's very important when you're trying to decide what it is in whatever your your area you want to go in.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

You can use the same same rules uh for doing it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh meet people who do it well. Yeah. Have the right attitude. Attitude is so important, you know. So all these factors grow uh to help make someone grow into being what they want to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw that. And then let me throw one more in. Take your time. Since I'm Christian, you gotta pray, pray, pray. That's the most important one. Talk to the master.

SPEAKER_06:

He might have a different plan for you. You never know, right? You never know. Um, I saw you in a post with Dr. Holly Carter from Merge TV. Looks like you guys might have something in the works. Can we get an exclusive? Can you tell us anything about that?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, hopefully. Okay. We might. We'll see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

We'll cut this part out if that doesn't.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay. No, it's just in the beginning stage, yeah. You know, that she wants to do a my life story.

SPEAKER_06:

So as she should. Yeah. Um, I love Dr. Holly Carter. She is one of the people that I look up to because I feel like she does content with excellence. Whether it's a Christian production or something that's secular, you can feel the encouragement around it because her heart for things is that she leaves, it seems to be, I don't know her personally, but it seems to be that her heart for things is to leave the viewer in a place of hope.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_06:

And um, even when she did the um, she had produced something for um for um Ciara Sheard, Kelly, um, during the pandemic, that was excellent. She had produced the Clark Sister story. And she did it with such excellence, and I love that because sometime you as well, you're a pioneer of this. Sometime in the body of Christ, we produce things and it looked like it don't look like Jesus was involved in the production. Yeah, I didn't struggle production. And so I am, I always tell people when people ask me for advice, everything I do was at the utmost quality of what I could afford at the time. Any video I've ever shot, anything I do, I'm going to do it with the whatever quality I can afford. That's what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_03:

That's great.

SPEAKER_06:

And I believe, you know, that it has served me well. And so I look forward to whatever the two of you might cook up because I I know that she will produce it with the excellence and the quality that it deserves. I want to ask you two more questions. One I always end with, a different one is this here. When you think about being on television, cable television, people seeing you all over the world, and knowing that as a black man, right, this was something that was hard to come by. And you've done this for decades, right? 35 years, I believe, that the show was on BET, right? 37 or 38 years in full that the show was produced.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

When you look at television now, do you realize that there's been no replication of that?

unknown:

Oh.

SPEAKER_06:

Jesus. Not just the time, but the type of show.

SPEAKER_04:

I have been trying to get someone else to do a television show for years. I thought initially, uh there was Andre Crouch, there was the Hawkins family, there was James Cleveland, there was all those people that were out there. I thought after they saw this show and they were that they would, you know, because people knew them and they didn't know me, you know. Plus they could sing whatever they did, they did it better than I did. Um, you know, at the time. And and it just never happened. And we're sitting here in whatever year this is right now, and it still hasn't happened. There were there were a couple of uh shows uh on Bounce TV Network, uh gospel shows that lasted a little while, uh not not as nearly as hours. Then there was a guy out of New York uh that had a show, uh a gospel show on. It was a half-hour show on PBS on public service television, which at that time wasn't well distributed. And um then in a few cities in in depending on where they were, like in Chicago, they had a major show there that only only serviced the Chicago area. Uh, but it it just never came full force like B.E.T. did.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And and and that that that's been very interesting. Yeah. And I'm still waiting to see.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh when I left B.E.T. Uh I suggested maybe that uh they could use some of my friends, which they did, but it just didn't work. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. Because they were good at what they did. So now that that that I'm still doing television, I never stopped, by the way. People thought maybe that BET let the show go, but you know, he wasn't gonna let me go. Uh, so I decided to retire while I was on top.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Guess who gave me that? Barbara Mandriel. She had a number one show on NBC by the Mandrill sisters. And uh then we started working with her. And then I asked her, I said, why did you stop doing those shows? Your shows, you know, she said, we were on top, and I stopped while I was on top. And so, and being at BET and not knowing the Valcom was gonna buy BT out, you know, and whatever. But God led me to say, okay.

SPEAKER_06:

Because it's a very different station now. Yeah. God bless them. We love BT.

SPEAKER_04:

It is, it's very station. So it I got out just in time. I'm trying to figure out who is that who's that gospel song that said, I got out. Oh, I know uh little white guy, I can't think his name now. But the song was I got out. So I got out in time. And when I look at it now, and I keep waiting, and I say, somebody's gonna come with the show because they don't have any gospel on. But not yet. Yeah. But in God's own time. It'll only happen then. Yes. I only happened when God wanted it to happen.

SPEAKER_06:

What did what would you want to see on a show today?

SPEAKER_04:

Reality and whatever they are doing if it relates to gospel music. You know, be real about it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh establish yourself that know how to speak English and know how to dress uh accordingly. Yes. That you can represent the gospel well. Don't come the half naked and all that. Don't try to go with that style. Yes, yes. Uh, and then uh be able to produce the word so that it's convincible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

That's good. That's good. Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Be real. You know, be who you really are. Yeah, you know, and not try to be something that you aren't because people can see through that.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah. I think that's so much of why you've been able to be so successful so long. Kim Barrell tells a story of how she came somewhere with a hairdo and you said to her, That ain't you. Take that out your head. And she said she ran and took the braids out of whatever it was. And I just cracked up laughing when I heard that.

SPEAKER_04:

I just got through talking to her a few minutes ago. Yeah. Yeah, she I did. And then we bring up her name again. There's God again.

SPEAKER_06:

I was cracking up when I said, I said, because that that sounds just like him. See, she said, You said that that's so not you. Please take that out your head. I was cracking up.

SPEAKER_04:

And I try to do that with even with the group I'm working with now, like this, the superquire. I've had them for quite a while, you know. I started with New Life, that's what I called them. Yep. Uh it was a mixture of about 12 people. I got that idea from the Hawkins and Andre Crouch, you know. And then it broke down to uh just a group of women, which were the I called New Life, Beverly Crawford and Francine Belcher and all of them. And then from then I I started to enjoy the choir, so I put together a choir. I went to Atlanta one time and they had named theirs called the Atlanta Super Choir. It wasn't my creation. You know, I don't want to claim that I was the one that started Super Crown. I got that from the from Atlanta. I love that. And it was called uh not calling the Nashville Super Choir. I love it. And now Florida has one called the Florida Super Crown. Have you heard about this? I have not. I only know Nashville about the show. They've done our show. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

Wow, wow, wow.

SPEAKER_04:

So all of that's going.

SPEAKER_06:

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04:

Now, my books. I had two books that I did. One of them was very successful, uh, which was uh very interesting. It's a little bit about my life story. And I think that that's what uh we're gonna do when we do the film version of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did about four movies uh by Angelo put me in one of her movies.

SPEAKER_06:

Had you singing, you bought a choir. I heard you sing because she was trying to sing and it wasn't going so great.

SPEAKER_04:

That was it. Yeah, that was it. And so I've been blessed to do that, you know, and uh travel around the world. And uh I'd like to say to those people who are interested in trying to do a work for God, you know, he'll give you something that you probably never ever heard or thought about to do. So get put your trust in him. I've been on every continent except one. Which was Antarctica, you know, I don't like cold weather. But when you put your trust in him, you'll be surprised to see what he'll do for you. He's still leading me and guiding me, even at this point in my life. I couldn't do what I do without Jesus Christ. And you take the same attitude.

SPEAKER_06:

Amen. Amen. I gotta ask you a bonus question.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

I know you and Maya Angelo are very close. 25 years, you said every Thanksgiving you were at her table. What is the best advice she ever gave you?

SPEAKER_04:

To be yourself. To be real. I love it. Real. Yeah. I love it. I love it. That was from Dr. Maya Angelo.

SPEAKER_06:

Can I tell you the best advice she ever gave me, even though I never met her?

SPEAKER_04:

Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me.

SPEAKER_06:

She said in an interview one time that she was singing.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_06:

And Billy Holiday and her were on the same review or something like that. They were somewhere.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06:

And she said, Billy Holliday said to her, You're going to be really famous, but it won't be for this. It won't be for singing. And she said, So she said, I thought to myself, what a drag. She said, but years later, I realized it wasn't going to be singing because I didn't, I wouldn't sacrifice for music. I would sacrifice for poetry. And she said, see, you will only be successful for that which you will sacrifice.

SPEAKER_03:

Sacrifice for, yeah.

SPEAKER_06:

And when I think about, I'm multi-talented, just like you, playback. You know, you do a bunch of things, I do a bunch of things. But I realized, oh, I'm really willing to sacrifice for media in a way that's different than when I was doing music or doing other things. And I realized that God is blessing that for which I sacrifice. And so that's the best advice I ever gave.

SPEAKER_04:

That was great advice. It was.

SPEAKER_06:

And you sacrificed so much for the world of gospel. Sacrifice so much so that so many of our pioneers, the people who we look up to, can be the people that they are right now and give uh the world their legacy. As my last question, I want to ask you in the grand scheme of things, right? What would you want your legacy to be?

unknown:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04:

I'd like to for people to know the real Bobby Jones. Not the television Bobby Jones, but the real one. Hopefully it comes across on television. But I'm just a real honest guy loving guy. Yeah, I don't try to pretend in any situation.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So I want them to know that. You can trust me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Trust me. I'm real.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah. I can attest. Guys, this has been an incredible episode of I'll Just Let Myself In with Lish Speaks, a Lish Speaks special, if you will. Because I do believe that not only is my audience, my community gonna benefit from this, I personally feel so touched. And I feel like this is confirmation for me. I'm not gonna get emotional. I'm gonna be professional. This is confirmation for me that this is what I'm supposed to be doing in my life right now. I so appreciate you taking the time. Taking the time. I know how busy you are and how many people call on you and want you your time. Take your time to meet with a young, you know, new professional in this space like me. It is not lost on me. And now you will be a part of my legacy that I hope to to live unto God in the earth and to do what he has called me to do. So I thank you for your yes.

SPEAKER_04:

You're gonna go. You're gonna go where God wants you to go. You have the right personality, you have the right desire. You know, you have you have what it takes to make you what God wants you to be. So get ready. Thank you. Prepare yourself for it because it's gonna happen in God's name.

SPEAKER_06:

Thank you. Dr. Barbie Jones, everybody.