Episode 56 - With Suzanne Ulph

This week I'm chatting to Suzanne Ulph who has wonderfully curly grey hair.

Her grey hair journey coincided with a big change in her life, as she moved from being a teacher to becoming a writing coach for authors. The move to self employment means she's also much freer to express her personality, dressing in the bright colours and patterns that she loves.

Transcript

Helen: Hello, and thanks for joining me, Helen Johnson for the Happier Grey Podcast. I'm pro-ageing and love my grey hair, but I know it can be quite intimidating to take the plunge. So, each week I'll be chatting to other women who've chosen to embrace the grey in the hope of inspiring and supporting you, whether you already have silver hair in the process of going grey or just considering ditching the dye.

Today I'm joined by Suzanne Ulph, a writer, coach, and founder of The Curious Wolf, where she supports women to explore creativity and self-discovery through writing. Embracing her grey hair has deepened her commitment to helping others reconnect with their true selves and find beauty in every chapter of life.

Good morning, Suzanne. How are you?

Suzanne: Good morning. I'm very well, thank you. How are you?

Helen: I'm good. It's lovely and sunny here today. So, the first thing I'm gonna ask you is, can you remember when you found your first grey hair?

Suzanne: Not really, but I know I was really quite young. I think probably in my twenties. I had to be on quite a heavy dose of steroids for 18 months. And one of the side effects of steroids that people don't really know about is that it can cause grey hair. So, I think it really was in my twenties. Yeah, I would say. Yeah.

Helen: And were you dyeing your hair at the time? 

Suzanne: I was going through a phase of dye, my hair, very many different colours, like purple, and pink, and red, and things. But I wasn't really dyeing it to cover grey at that point. But yes, I did begin to dye it pretty soon after that. Yeah.

Helen: And how long did you dye it for? How many years?

Suzanne: Right up until my late forties, actually, right up until lockdown. I had been dyeing at quite a dark brown, because that was my natural hair colour. But then it was getting to the point of the roots were coming in so quickly, and you could really see it. 

So, I actually went blonde overnight with a very good hairdresser, which was interesting, and I did quite like that for a while. And it also hid the fact of the grey coming in. You couldn't really see it that much. Then Lockdown hit and I just stopped dyeing. It completely,

Helen: Had you thought about stopping dyeing before Lockdown?

Suzanne: No, not even vaguely. Not at all. I'd been a teacher up until that point. So, I think I was in the habit of, you know, you're going and you're meeting people every single day, and you put makeup on in the morning, and your hair's always washed and ready to go, and things. So, it hadn't really crossed my mind to do something differently.

It was just with the whole massive change that we all went through about not seeing people suddenly being inside. That, I thought, you know, this is maybe a time to just actually let this grow out. Because I think the growing out stage was probably what worried me more than anything else. So yeah, that was why.

Helen: Before you, decided to stop, how frequently were you having your hair dyed?

Suzanne: When it was blonde, probably every 12 weeks I would say. And when it was, dark, probably every six to eight weeks, with a variety of different Top-up pen thing. Probably not good to be seen in sunlight too closely.

Helen: I was a little bit more often new than you, and I can remember that I used to book the next appointment as I left the salon each time.

Suzanne: Yeah, my Mum does that. My Mum's seventy-eight, and she still does that every five weeks without fail her hair is dyed.

Helen: It is just such a habit.

Suzanne: Yeah.

Helen: In terms of the grow out itself, did you just leave it and have a line?

Suzanne: Yeah, but because it was blonde, it wasn't as obvious, you know? I think had it been dark, it would've been an awful lot more obvious. But I'd also been dyeing it myself for a while at that point, so it was probably a bit patchy anyway,

Helen: And you weren't tempted just to, keep doing that?

Suzanne: Yeah. Yeah. I have boxes of hair dye upstairs. I have various different, dye shampoos as well. You know, the latest thing that's on Facebook is an advert or whatever. And I keep on thinking, oh, I might just do it at some point, but something keeps on stopping me and I just don't.

Helen: So, the grow out itself, your hair is curly because my listeners can't see that, and I guess it's about shoulder length?

Suzanne: Yeah. Yeah.

Helen: So how long did it take you to do the grow out?

Suzanne: Actually, not really that long. I think probably about a year, year and a half.

Helen: So, your hair grows quite fast then?

Suzanne: Yeah, I think it does grow really quickly. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't really paying that much attention to it, to be honest, because we were in Lockdown. But it did seem quite quick. It didn't seem too big of a deal.

Helen: And it didn't really bother you during the grow out phase?

Suzanne: No, no, it didn't. No. I was in the phase of cutting my own hair at that point as well, so probably that was worse. You can get away with lots of things with really curly hair.

Helen: Now that your hair is grey, are you doing anything to look after it in terms of the colour, and the condition?

Suzanne: Well, again, because it's curly, I've got to be very, very careful about the condition of it. So yes, I am very careful with that. Use various natural products. What's interesting as well though, is I used to have psoriasis in my scalp and that's gone completely now. So that's one of the things that makes me feel I wouldn't go back either.

I went to hairdresser recently who is all about curly hair, and I was working as a model for him actually for curly hair. It was really interesting spending time with him because we talked more about how, if you have curly hair, there's a lot of prejudice about that. That it's not professional enough looking, that you're always kinda trying to tie it back and things.

So, I think embracing the colour came at the same time as realizing, yeah, there have been things in the past about the fact that it's so curly that has potentially got in the way. And that was something I hadn't really thought of that much before. So, it's quite an interesting episode.

Helen: I mean, I think with curly hair you do often have to put serums and things on it, don't you? So that you have the discreet curls rather than just,

Suzanne: yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

Helen: the frizz.

Suzanne: Absolutely. Yeah. And you can't ever brush it or anything like that. 

Helen: Do you use purple shampoos at all?

Suzanne: Not really. I sometimes do, but not particularly, not majorly.

Helen: Your hair's probably a similar colour to mine, so you don't really notice it if there's any yellowing happening, 'cause it's already got a bit of a blonde undercurrent.

Suzanne: There's just so many different colours in my hair. It's really white in some places, and still quite dark brown in some place, and every other shade in between. 

I think that's what I quite like about it as well, because when you get your hair dyed, it's either just a one block of colour or you might have some highlights and some lowlights, but it's still, unless you're spending an absolute fortune, it's still quite rigid, isn't it? In the way that it looks.

Helen: Yeah.

Suzanne: Whereas I think when you let your hair grow out, you realize that there's a absolute myriad of colours going on. Which is much more interesting. I quite like that, and that's what people comment on more than anything else.

Whenever I talk about dyeing my hair, everyone I know says, don't, don't, just don't do it, you know. And I think, oh yeah, because it would take away that individuality and that creativity. So, I quite like it. 

Although I have got a hankering of going pink or purple again for a short while, 'cause that's always good fun.

Helen: I did interview someone who had some pink stripes,

Suzanne: Yeah.

Helen: when I first met her, and it was she just that it was just a bit of fun.

Suzanne: Yeah. 

Helen: When you decided to go grey, what reaction did you get from your friends and family? 

Suzanne: Well, again, that was during lockdown, so not much because you can't properly see colours on a screen. Apart from my husband, I wasn't seeing anyone. I was shielding as well, so I couldn't really go out and meet people. 

Plus, I'm also allergic to UV light, so the whole period of everyone can go out and meet outside I couldn't. I didn't really see anyone for a long time. But no, there wasn't really that much of a reaction at all apart from people just saying, stick with it, you know, it's great. No negativity. None, no.

Helen: Which is fantastic and a bit of a relief, I think?

Suzanne: Yeah.

Helen: You think it's gonna happen, and when it doesn't, then yeah, it's cool. Have any of your friends subsequently gone grey?

Suzanne: No, no. They haven't. But I know quite a lot of people now who have grey hair who are a similar age to me and who have let it be grey. So, I have friends now, but not friends from previously.

Helen: Have you found that your style has changed as well as going grey?

Suzanne: I think that that's all part of the same thing. Previously to lockdown, as I said, I was teaching, so you know, you, you still are yourself, but there's a level of control in the way that you can be. And since leaving that, and setting up my own company, visibility is really important.

I have these bright red specs, and people recognize me from that. I think actually the grey hair and the red specs are what people recognize me from. So, I would definitely say I'm much more flamboyant now. Openly. Whereas previously, maybe I was more flamboyant at the weekend kind of a thing, but not day to day.

I think it's come hand in hand with that. It's all part of a much more colourful character. A much more colourful look than previous..

Helen: Have the colours that you've worn changed as well?

Suzanne: Yeah, I used to wear a lot of dark colours, a lot of kind of mute dark colours. But now I go for really bright colours, and lots of clashing, bright colours and yeah, just whatever. 

Helen: Can I ask you how you feel about where you are at in the ageing process generally? 

Suzanne: The whole thing's quite confusing, and quite funny. I always remember my grandpa who died in his late nineties, saying that he never felt a day older than 18. And you know, when you spent time talking to him, you kind of bleed that, 'cause he was just so much fun all the way through.

And I feel like that as well. I mean I'm 53 at the moment, but that just is a number, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't really make sense. I kind of feel like the same as I did probably when I was in my thirties. I would say probably, maybe not twenties, but thirties. 

I've lost a couple of close friends to cancer, and quite a few family members for various other reasons ,over the decade I would say. So actually, the way I kind of look at it now is it's about embracing the fact that you're still here, you're still healthy, you have life. And that's really what's important.

The idea of having grey hair, or not having grey hair is, not really the point of life anymore, is it at all? You know, it's like people worrying about having some grey hair. I would say well be really grateful that you've got some grey hair that you've got to this point. you can have that. I think that's what's probably changed my perspective on things. 

That said, I'm working with a health and fitness coach now, 'cause I do feel that I do need to . You realize that your body actually starts changing a little bit, and if you don't actively do things to keep it fit and healthy, then that will go downhill.

When I say embracing ageing, I don't mean all the aches and pains that can come with it. I think it's really important to do as much as you can to keep your body physically young. But I think that's inside, I think the outside. I wouldn't be looking at having Botox or fillers or all these kind of a things, just as I wouldn't be looking at dyeing your hair.

I think you can age gracefully, but healthily and naturally. I think these are both really important.

Helen: Yeah. I'm very much like you. My Mum's 89 and she lives independently, and I'm like I wanna be her.

Suzanne: My Mum's at spin classes with our local university, which is just amazing.

Helen: So, then it's like, okay, well what do I need to do to age well,

Suzanne: Yeah.

Helen: in terms of fitness, diet, and connections.

Suzanne: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And not worry about what people think, maybe that comes with age a bit. But I couldn't really care less, what people think now. You just embrace the way that you are. But the irony is that people stop me in the street and talk about my hair, and stop me at the train station and talk about my hair.

So, I find that quite fascinating as well, that that's the thing. It almost makes you feel like there are a lot more people out there who would like to embrace being grey, but have stopped themselves. Have a hankering to maybe think about it, so.

Helen: Yeah. I think that's one of the other things as well, is that, people admire it, but then they go, oh, but I could never do it.

Suzanne: Yeah, yeah. That's true.

Helen: But they think their hair, they're not gonna like the colour, when you, you just can't know. 

Suzanne: You don't know what your hair's gonna be like. You don't know what colour it's going to be. 'cause it's different from when you were young, 

Helen: And even with the grey, I think you're so obsessed with the white hairs that you see at the front. 'cause nearly everybody's got more white hair at the front, and you think it's gonna be a lot whiter than it actually is when it comes through.

Suzanne: Yeah, very true. Yeah, absolutely. 

Helen: And also, I think there's been so much shame associated with having roots,

Suzanne: Yes.

Helen:  in your head over the years that it takes a while to shed that.

Suzanne: Yeah, and it's not even just the shame of having roots, it's even stronger than that. You see a lot of celebrities and things with blonde hair, but with like brown roots, which are very obviously dyed. 'cause if you're in your forties or fifties, you don't have dark brown roots. You just don't. 

Helen:  Yeah. Yeah.

Suzanne: So, that takes it to another level, doesn't it? That you're having your hair dyed so often that you're pretending that you've still got dark roots coming in. That's worrying, I think.

Helen: Yeah, it kind of says you've got a level of insecurity.

Suzanne: It does, doesn't it?

Helen: Talk to me a little bit about your fitness regime then.

Suzanne: Well, I'm now, getting up three days a week and doing a whole load of different weights, and different strength exercises to make sure that all stays strong. I do yoga at least once a week. And I walk my dog's at least 10,000 steps a day, as well. 

I'm focused on protein. I'm focusing like really building protein levels and, not reducing carbohydrates particularly, but making sure I'm getting adequate protein, 'cause I think as we age, we absorb protein less. So, we absolutely need to have higher levels of protein than possibly previously. I must say it's making a difference to how well I feel.

Helen: When did you start?

Suzanne: Like you, I want be like my mom. I want to be as healthy and fit as she is.

Helen: my Mum took a tap dancing in her sixties.

Suzanne: Did she?

Helen: Don't think I'm going quite that far. 

How important was your hair to you when you were growing up?

Suzanne: It was really important to me because I didn't like the fact that it was curly. My hair was really long and blonde and straight, until I was about primary six, which is about 10 years old. I'm not sure what that is in England for years. But, until I was about 10. 

I was really into gymnastics and I was doing loads of forward roles and various different things in my garden. Kept on getting trapped in my hair, so in a complete tantrum one day demanded that my hair was cut off. So I went to the hairdressers, got it completely cut off, got the fright of my life because it was brown, and curly. Neither of two things was expected whatsoever. 

I then probably spent most of my teenage years trying to straighten it, because I didn't accept this curly hair. It grew and it was quite long again. And I would go to my bed with like bands and all the way down to try and make it straight as possible for the next morning. This was before everyone had straighteners and things. 

And then of course, living in the west coast of Scotland with humidity, it would be absolutely all over the place by the next morning as soon as I stepped outside. You know the frizz would come up. So, it probably took me to my late teens to accept that it was curly.

But then even at that point, I actually, put dreads in, with beeswax and things, so they were proper dreads. And the fact that it was really curly enabled that to stay longer. I probably quite liked it from that point of view. So actually, it was probably my mid-twenties before I actually embraced having curly hair, to be honest.

Helen: And were comfortable with it?

Suzanne: Yeah, yeah. And now I wouldn't, change it for the world. I much prefer having curly hair, so yeah, I'm quite happy with that. I haven't straightened it ever since I think my mid-twenties.

Helen: And your mid-twenties were when you were experimenting with the wacky colours as well?

Suzanne: Yeah, absolutely. Probably in a kind of ploy to try and hide it in some ways. 

Helen: But your hair's always been fairly central to your identity, you would say?

Suzanne: Yeah, I think it has. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Helen: And that's absolutely true now with the grey?

Suzanne: Yeah. Totally. Yeah. 

Helen: One of the other things you said was you get stopped by people now.

Suzanne: Yeah, which is quite a surprise. Yeah. 

Helen: To admire your hair. Did that happen before you let it go grey?

Suzanne: Not that I can remember. No, no, never. No.

Helen: So, it's been a positive thing from the point of view of how people have reacted to your appearance?

Suzanne: Yeah, it's been really positive. Even with like my husband, he constantly talks about, you know, he loves it. He absolutely loves it now. And I get really annoyed because he's a year older than me, and still got dark hair and he doesn't dye it. He just naturally has dark hair, and he's got a lot of grey in his beard, but his head is still really dark, which is incredibly frustrating.

So, that was probably one of the most difficult things, 'cause I kind of thought am I gonna look like an old woman next to him? And that would be really annoying. But I think, it's just not the case now. Because more people are embracing grey hair then you're not surprised to see grey hair on a younger face, you know. So that's been okay. 

You know, we're close enough, I know that he would say if he really felt that it was making me look a little older, he would say. And it just doesn't, it's just a different way of being, you know, it's not something that does age you, it definitely doesn't need to.

Helen: I think when I chose to grow mine out, my husband was probably the only person who wasn't so keen on the idea.

Suzanne: Really?

Helen: He'd only ever know me with bleach, blonde hair. He did offer to dye it and I wouldn't let him. 'cause I'd thought for a couple of years before Lockdown about going grey, and everyone talked me out of it. When Lockdown happened, it was like, oh, it's a sign. I'm doing it.

Suzanne: Yeah.

Helen: He's used to the idea now. But yeah, he was probably the only one. He, wasn't like really negative, it was just a change.

Suzanne: Yeah. Does he have grey hair?

Helen: No. His family don't go great early. And he's also younger than me. He's seven years younger than me. So again, a bit like you, I was kinda like, oh, do I look like his Mum? And then I'm like, do I care? It's nobody's business apart from mine. 

I'm gonna ask you one last question then. If somebody came to you and said, I'm thinking about going grey, what advice would you have for them?

Suzanne: I would say just do it. You know, if you are really, really unhappy with it, you can always change it back. But I really doubt that you will be. I think you'll probably actually quite like it ,and be quite surprised by the variety of colours that will be in your hair and how much more interesting that will be.

Your hair will feel a lot healthier. Your scalp will feel healthier. Yeah, it's just a hundred percent positive experience for me. Yeah. So go for it.

Helen: That is one of the things that I hadn't thought about when I went grey as well, is the condition is so much better.

I'd been bleaching mine. It was just so dry. And like really split ends and things. And now it's just not like that. 

Suzanne: Absolutely. 

Helen: I'm gonna leave it there, thanks so much for joining me. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Suzanne: Thank you. You too.

Helen: Thanks so much for joining me for this week's show. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. I'll be back again next week, but in the meantime, you can follow me on Instagram at happier.grey. Have a great week.