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Gospel Grit
This podcast exists to create content based on the Bible for the Church.
Gospel Grit
Faith and Fire: Navigating Government Mandates with Unyielding Devotion
What happens when faith meets the fiery furnace of governmental mandates? This episode of Gospel Grit brings the ancient tale of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego into the modern era, examining their defiance against King Nebuchadnezzar's decree as a lens for contemporary issues. We delve into the complex interplay between church and state, raising crucial questions about how Christians can stay true to their beliefs amid pressures like lockdowns and vaccine mandates. By exploring biblical passages and historical precedents, we tackle the vexing challenge of balancing obedience to earthly authorities with unwavering loyalty to divine commandments.
Discover the moral courage required to stand firm in one's faith, even when societal pressures and authoritarian demands are at their peak. Reflecting on the steadfastness of early Christians who refused to bow to Caesar, we draw parallels that underscore the timeless relevance of prioritizing eternal treasures over earthly approval. This episode offers not only historical insights but also practical encouragement for navigating today's turbulent times with fidelity to God's higher law. Join us as we explore how to live at peace with others while remaining resolute in our devotion to Christ.
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As always, thank you for watching Gospel Grit, where we seek to apply the Word of God, to the people of God, to the glory of God.
King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold whose height was 60 cubits and its breadth 6 cubits.
Speaker 1:He set it upon the plain of Dura in the province of Babylon. Then King Nebuchadnezzar sent to gather the satraps, the prefects and the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the justices, the magistrates and all the officials of the provinces to come to the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. Then the satraps, the prefects and the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the justices, the magistrates and all the officials of the provinces gathered for the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. And they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up and the herald proclaimed aloud you are commanded, o peoples, nations and languages, that when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe and every kind of music, you are to fall down and worship the golden image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. And whoever does not fall down and worship shall immediately be cast into a burning fiery furnace. Therefore, as soon as all the peoples heard the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe and every kind of music, all the peoples, nations and languages fell down and worshiped the golden image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up.
Speaker 1:Therefore, at that certain time, chaldeans came forward and maliciously accused the Jews. They declared to King Nebuchadnezzar O King, live forever. You, o King, have made a decree that every man who hears the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe and every kind of music shall fall down and worship the golden image. Fall down and worship the golden image, and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast into a burning fiery furnace. There are certain Jews whom you have appointed over the affairs of the province of Babylon Shadrach, meshach and Abednego. These men, o king, pay no attention to you. They do not serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up. Then Nebuchadnezzar, in furious rage, commanded that Shadrach, meshach and Abednego be brought. So they brought these men before the king. Nebuchadnezzar answered and said to them Is it true, o Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the golden image that I have set up? Now, if you are ready, when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe and every kind of music, to fall down and worship the image that I have made, well and good, but if you do not worship, you shall immediately be cast into a burning fiery furnace, and who is the God who will deliver you out of my hands? Shadrach, meshach and Abednego answered and said to the king O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. If this be so, our God, whom we serve, is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of your hand, o King. But if not, let it be known to you, o King, that we will not serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Gospel Grit, where we seek to apply the Word of God to the people of God for the glory of God. My name is Taylor Windham. As always, welcome to part three of our little mini-series on the church and the state and how they relate to one another and what we are to do as Christians, how we are to go about understanding our role and the place that we play in it. Okay, so now we get to the fun stuff. Right Now we get to the part of all of this where the questions probably in your mind and many other people, including myself we go here, naturally, excuse me we start to ask questions. Well, if the government is tyrannical and I know many Christians are asking this now about the American government and the mandates and the lockdowns and the vaccines, and on and on and on and on. It goes that we are constantly having views shoved down our throat we don't accept and we don't agree with.
Speaker 1:And so do we placate, do we fall back?
Speaker 1:Do we regroup? Do we recalibrate in some way? Do we oppose? Do we go to prison? Are we tortured? Are we persecuted for the sake of Christ?
Speaker 1:Like Matthew, 5, 11, and 12 make clear what do we do right? What do we do? How do we address how the laws of man conflict with the laws of God and how do we put ourselves in a place that is both honoring to Christ but also honoring to the culture as much as possible, that we win as many? We pluck brands from the burning right, we snatch them as those who are on fire. How do we win an audience, not only with our fellow believers, with our fellow believers, but unbelievers and, even more so, the king right, shadrach, meshach and Abednego?
Speaker 1:How do we relate to the evil, wicked governance and the laws that we are constantly being put under, and it seems like that's only going to get worse from here on out. How do we relate to that? Okay, so where do we draw the line? Is the question for part three, this final episode of the series. Where do we draw the line? Is there a law that is above our laws? And I've kind of already argued in part two that certainly there is. There is a law above human law. It's what all human law ought to be based on. There is no such thing as having a law that is not based upon, again, those three things I've been arguing a God, worship, a law to a God meant to build and sustain a worldview for the sake of morality. There is no such thing as having a law. There is no such thing as having a law. There is no such thing as a amoral law. All laws are right or wrong, they are justified or they are not justified. All laws have at their root, all laws have at their core the idea that there are ways that we ought to behave and there are ways we ought not to behave.
Speaker 1:So when the government says, hey, church, you have to shut down the churches, for example, in 2020, in March and 15 days to slow the spread, and all of that that was going on, I was working at the hospital at the time on the weekends and teaching school, and at that point I hadn't become a pastor yet and so I was making extra money transporting at the hospital here in my local town, and we could see how bad the virus was getting. We could see how bad everything was going and everything was shutting down. And you guys are familiar, as you watch this, I'm sure, with how everything unfolded right and we signed away our rights. Why I'm wearing this hat for this video? The Essential Church is a wonderful movie. You should go watch it if you haven't seen it. We signed away our rights, we gave over, we placated to the culture, we placated to human laws and we, for example, rolled over and showed our bellies when it came to do we shut the church down just because the virus is very contagious and deadly, at least at that time.
Speaker 1:Is church essential? Are we essential workers? Are we essential parishioners? Is it a naturally essential part of church life, of life in general? The answer to all those questions is yes, emphatically, a hundred times over. Yes, it is emphatically important. It is essential that church go on.
Speaker 1:The church cannot be stopped. It must not be stopped and it cannot be impeded. But so we asked the question do we meet, as many churches said no, that's what the government told us not to do. It's not safe. Many of them meant well, they had certainly the Romans 13 passage in mind.
Speaker 1:But at what point do we go from Romans 13 to Daniel 3? At what point do we stop and ask the question Well, is there a law above our laws? And if there is a law above our laws and it is in direct competition competition or it's in direct violation, or our laws are in direct violation of God's, then what do we do? You shall not neglect the gathering of the saints in Hebrews, as some are in the habit of or some are accustomed to. We don't get to shut down the churches, because God commanded us to keep them open. Don't neglect the meeting together of yourselves, right, the assembly of the church. He told us not to do that, so it's not an option, right? It's not very complicated. It's just back to the one kingdom, two kingdom approach.
Speaker 1:Do we live with our foot in the world? Well, yeah, romans 13 makes that clear. We live with our foot in the world, in the sense that we are obedient to the physical magistrates, not for their sake. We're not pledging some kind of undying fealty and allegiance to a corrupt government and that could be a separate video at some point but we're not pledging fealty and undying loyalty to an unholy union and an unholy country that hates God and hates His Word and hates His church, and that's something for you guys to think about in how you understand America as we go forward. But there is a law above our laws, right, there is a law above the laws.
Speaker 1:And that brings us to the next question what about when the church is overreached by the state? Or what about when the state has an overreach that affects the church in a dramatic and pragmatic way? Do we have to, when faced with the option by Nebuchadnezzar, so to say, like Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, bow down before the trigons and the liars and the pipes and the bagpipes? Do we have to say, okay, fine, we'll kowtow to what you say. We will disobey the Word of God right and Acts right? Peter and John asked a question that we really ought to frame this discussion with. What do you think right? They asked the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin what do you think? Should we obey God or should we obey man, right? As for us, we're going to keep preaching this name.
Speaker 1:What about when the proclamation of the gospel becomes illegal, as it is in dozens of countries all around this world right now? What about here? What about in America, where it becomes illegal to proclaim the gospel, illegal to buy a gospel, illegal to buy a Bible, illegal to sell a Bible, illegal to pray in public, illegal to try to proselyte and convert people? When it becomes illegal to stand up and picket and protest abortion clinics like Planned Parenthood? What about when it becomes illegal to adopt children that are going to otherwise be thrown by the wayside? What about when it becomes illegal to say I'm not going to make a cake for a gay wedding? What about when it becomes illegal to simply be a Christian, even if you don't offend or infringe any of those laws I just hypothetically mentioned?
Speaker 1:When the state overreaches, the question is and this is for you to really think about, christian, as you hear this video where do we draw the line? Where does the Bible draw the line? Where does the Bible draw the line? Well, the Bible draws the line, and this helps a lot, with Romans 14 preceding or coming right afterwards to Romans 13,. Right, romans 13 gives us the discussion about being beholden to the civil magistrates and the government. But Romans 14 talks about conscience and we have to obey our conscience in the sense that we don't grieve our conscience, we do what it tells us to do, informed by the Word of God. By the way, right Luther died of forms 1521. My conscience is held captive to the Word of God. But the question is is your conscience actually held captive to the Word of God? Is what you believe in line with the Scriptures? Do you even know what the Scriptures say? How can your conscience be informed by the Word of God if you never read the Word of God right?
Speaker 1:So when the church overreaches, we can have policies that try to protect us, but eventually, remember, they carry the sword not for nothing. The evildoers should be afraid, while the church, the role is not primarily to burn people at the stake, although certainly that has happened. The church is administering the sacraments. The church is fulfilling the Great Commission, going into all the world and preaching the gospel and making disciples and baptizing people in the name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit. But the state has to maintain its lane. But the problem is, when there's the sword and the gun and the weapons that are wielded, for example, then they can continue to infringe and overreach into the church, and we've seen this over and over and over throughout the church's history of 2,000 years. But our conscience is what helps guide us to understand exactly how we ought to behave as we go forward, as we talk about our morality and the laws that we have that are subject to the law of God.
Speaker 1:So the question then becomes what about civil disobedience? How far do we go? While I don't think Martin Luther King Jr wasa Christian whatsoever, I think he was a heretic and a false teacher in the sense of doctrine as well as morality, and his own personal life fell woefully short of that. The man was a heretic, but what he did from a civil perspective of nonviolence is certainly admirable. As well as Gandhi, we're familiar with these two men. They're very famous for their nonviolent and passive ways of obeying their conscience with civil disobedience. Muhammad Ali, Cassius Clay.
Speaker 1:So when we're talking about civil disobedience, it's important to note a couple of things here off the top of the head. We're not talking about violence, we're not talking about being violent with people and we're certainly not talking about hurting and harming our accusers. Jesus made that very clear that I mentioned in Matthew 5, 11, and 12, right, that we are in 10, that we are to pray for those who persecute us and that we don't return fire with fire, so to say, we're not out to get them, it's not a competition. We're out to reach them with the gospel. We're out to see them saved, to see them converted, for them to go from that kingdom to the kingdom of Christ. That's the goal, right? So the question then we have to ask is do we have biblical grounds for civil disobedience?
Speaker 1:Shadrach, meshach and Abednego certainly did right. They were commanded thou shall have no other gods before me. Right, do not make for yourself a graven image. So they certainly had a graven image that they were up against, and that would be Nebuchadnezzar's statue of himself. It's idolatry, it's rank idolatry, right? They had a clear command. This is why God's moral law is so important and we cannot afford to jettison it.
Speaker 1:We have to know what it says Do not bear false witness, do not commit adultery, do not. Thou shall not commit murder. We hear those, and then we have to ask ourselves well, if it's violating my conscience, so long as my conscience is held captive to the word of God, then I must disobey. If I think it's wrong. I think it's wrong. Great example would be the draft right that there were many people who were pacifists because of their beliefs whether it be Christian or other faiths and said I can't in good conscience fight in this effort. I don't believe it's right. I don't believe it's something that I can back. And the government ought to be aware that the government is not able to bind people's conscience. Government is not able to bind people's conscience.
Speaker 1:So civil disobedience follows because there's cognitive dissonance between what the government is telling us to do and what we know the Word of God has said to do, as illuminated by your conscience, by, ultimately, the Holy Spirit, of course, and through the church, often as long as the church is doing its job. So civil disobedience is not something that we take lightly. It's not something I'm saying that I encourage anybody to engage in just for its own sake. We're not being obstinate just to be obstinate. That's not the goal. But when we talk about civil disobedience, it's civil disobedience, right, it's not just disobedience, it's civil. And it's because I must obey God and not man. And when God and man conflict when it comes to the God that laws are dedicated to and the worldview that they are a part of and the morality that they propagate. I have to obey God. I don't have a choice, okay, so there's there's no real issue with this, because if he tells me to do A and the government tells me to do non-A, I don't have a choice. I simply obey what he tells me to do. Right? It's not Caesar, but Christ. We are not simply obeying Caesar for Caesar's sake, right? Are not simply obeying Caesar for Caesar's sake, right?
Speaker 1:The early Christians I talked to my wife about this the other day the early Christians were known for inscribing that Jesus is Lord everywhere that they went throughout the Roman Empire. That's oftentimes how the Romans knew that there were Christians in the area before they were persecuting them, or what helped them decide to start persecuting them in that area. It's not that Caesar was Lord, it's that Jesus was Lord. And one of the things that they would perpetually get themselves in trouble much like Shadrach, meshach and Abednego in Daniel 3, is that they were told to bow down to Caesar. They were told just say Caesar is Lord. And if you say Caesar is Lord, we will excuse you and we will let you worship these weird deities with no temple and no sacrifice and no priest. We will let you do that, as weird as we think that is. You don't have to worship Jupiter. You don't have to worship the Greek or Roman gods. We'll let you off.
Speaker 1:In a lot of cases Not always, some emperors just wanted to kill Christians Nero, for example but in many cases the issue was just say Kaiser, curios, caesar is Lord. Just say it, believe it. Just utter it one time. Just say it one time. You ain't got to say it in front of a bunch of people. Just say it one time and we'll move on. That'll be the end of it. Just say it Peter. Just say it Paul. Just say it Thomas, andrew, on and on. Just say it guys. That's all you got to do. Say it one time, we'll be done. It'll be like a shot. You say it one time and everything's good.
Speaker 1:Pledge your allegiance to Caesar that he is Lord, not Jesus, that Caesar is Lord. And they wouldn't do it. They just wouldn't do it. And they got put to death over and over and over and over, because they would say no one else is Lord but Christ. Christ is Lord, christ is Yahweh, christ is Adonai, christ is Lord over every square inch of this cosmos. They know it, you know it.
Speaker 1:So the question as we wrap this up today is this when we're faced and Christian we certainly have been, we certainly are and we definitely will be faced with the question will I bow the knee to the statue of Nebuchadnezzar? Will I bow the knee to the statue of Caesar? Will I bow the knee to the statue of Biden or bow the knee to the statue of any number of moral, perverse, filthy laws that get handed down to us? Will I bow the knee? The question you must ask yourself is when Jesus says things like If you deny me before men, I will deny you before my Father in heaven. When we hear verses like that and quite a few others, we have to ask ourselves what game are we playing? Are we storing up for ourselves treasures in heaven where rust and moth do not destroy and thieves do not break in and steal? Or are we playing the short game for popularity of man? And ultimately, we ask the question Peter and John did before the Sanhedrin what do you think? Do we obey you or do we obey God? The answer is very clear. Jesus is Lord. Obey him at all costs. Live at peace with all men, as Paul would say, insofar as it is within you in so far as you are able, and at that point when you hit the limit, don't bow the knee. Let them take your head right off your shoulders. You'll be with Christ. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Speaker 1:Thank you, guys, for this three-part series. I hope that it's helped you. I hope that we've honored you. I hope that we've honored you. I hope that we've glorified Christ. I hope we've encouraged you by applying the Word of God to the people of God for the glory of God. Thank you again for joining us. Please share this with someone if they need to hear it and they don't think about these things or they're in an area that they're heavily persecuted and it's only rising. I encourage everyone to watch this. Not that you agree with everything I'm saying, but I encourage everyone to watch it. So see you, guys, on the next episode. We love you. Thank you, as always, for watching Gospel Grip.