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The Public Health Business Podcast with Quisha Umemba
The Public Health Business Podcast is the show that helps you navigate the intersection of purpose and profit to make impact and income.
The Public Health Business Podcast with Quisha Umemba
Mental Health and Entrepreneurship with Teresa Sanderson
In this special episode of The Public Health Business Podcast, nurse leader and entrepreneur Teresa Sanderson opens up about her personal battle with clinical depression and the profound impact it had on her life and career.
Resources mentioned:
Nurses Feed Their Young
https://nursesfeedtheiryoung.com/
@nursesfeedtheiryoung
#mentalhealth #mentalhealthawareness #entrepreneurship #publichealthpreneur
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Thank you for listening to the Public Health Business Podcast!
#publichealthpreneur #publichealth #publi...
Welcome to the Public Healthpreneur Podcast, the show that helps you navigate the intersection of purpose and profit to make impact and income. I'm your host, huisha Umemba, a registered nurse, public health practitioner, nonprofit founder, authoress and entrepreneur, on a mission to ignite conversations that matter. I've dedicated my career to the pursuit of health equity and to transforming the lives of individuals and communities, and now my passion project is empowering public health professionals to become public health entrepreneurs. My journey is a testament to the potential of this field, and my goal is to ignite that potential within you. Here's what you can expect In this field, and my goal is to ignite that potential within you. Here's what you can expect In this podcast. We will dive deep into the world of well, you guessed it public health and entrepreneurship.
Quisha:Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur looking to expand your impact, or you're new to the field of public health and consider yourself to be a public health enthusiast, this podcast is your go-to resource for valuable insights and actionable advice, helping you to challenge the status quo and break free from convention to become an unconventional agent of change, creating meaningful and sustainable impact for those you serve. Let's get into today's episode. Those you serve. Let's get into today's episode. Hello everyone and welcome to the Public Healthpreneur podcast. I am your host, kwesha O'Memba, the Public Healthpreneur. I'm super excited to introduce you to today's guest. This is our third episode now of our special series on mental health and entrepreneurship, and you're going to be blown away and inspired by the story of, I guess, struggle what seemed almost like defeat and then ultimately triumph.
Quisha:I'm so excited to introduce you to my friend, teresa Sanderson. Teresa, how are you doing today?
Teresa:Oh my gosh, I am doing great, and I'm always doing really great when I'm in your space, so thank you for having me. It's exciting to be here.
Quisha:Oh man, I'm just so ready for our viewers and listeners to hear your story. You're one of the most inspirational people I know, aside from being a business bestie. But let's just get right into this conversation today. First, tell us about who you are, your business and a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey. Not too much, because we'll dig into that.
Teresa:But just a little bit.
Teresa:Okay, yeah, so my business now is I have a work from anywhere, business fits in my backpack and I just absolutely love that. The business was designed with intention that I would be able to be flexible and mobile and not location bound. But I serve my clients. I work with nurse entrepreneurs, nurses, health care organizations to help them establish themselves as nursing continuing ed providers, and I also one of the things I most love to do is help nurse entrepreneurs with business and marketing made easy, so I do some mentoring there. And lastly, my passion project is nurses feed their young, as a movement to transform nursing culture from one where nurses eat their young to one where nurses feed their young.
Quisha:I love that we're going to talk more about that toward the end of the podcast, because I definitely want our listeners to to know more about that. I definitely forgot to say you're also a fellow nurse. So you'll see in the series of these interviews that I am surrounded by a lot of nurses and, of course, public health professionals as well. Tell us how long you've been in business.
Teresa:Oh man, this round I've been in business about three years. You know, nurse, entrepreneurship has a journey. It has kind of peaks and valleys and things that happen, but I finally hit my stride, so this is where I will be from here on out. I did have an experience in the past owning the hospice from you know 2003 for about 10 years, and so that was another piece of the journey. So got probably about 15 years of entrepreneurial experience as a nurse.
Quisha:Wow, wow. So if you're a nurse and you're listening, it can be done. We've got somebody that has 15 years of entrepreneurial experience under her belt. Let's talk about the hospice. Tell us about the hospice. You said you had that business for about 10 years. I personally know that this is where your mental health challenges kind of reared their ugly heads, so share with us your mental health challenges that you experienced during your time running the hospice business. First of all, tell us a little bit about the business and then kind of go into those challenges.
Teresa:Okay, sure, happy to do that. So you know, we started our hospice my husband Greg and I in the early 2000s because I'd been working for a local hospice that was running under a county agency, and they were kind of not kind of, but they were very lukewarm about their concept of hospice. You know, they love the billing side but really weren't all about the service side, you know, and the conditions of participation. And you know I'm a blueprint personality, quisha, so I'm like the rules say, you know we got to do this and but we weren't doing it and I saw patients and families really struggling, you know, with the emotional needs and support they needed for end of life.
Teresa:And so I would come home and just lament to Greg, you know, wow, I can't believe we're doing it this way, you know it's really less than fulfilling. And he would say, oh, you just need to start your own, wow, and you don't know what you're talking about. You have no idea what that looks like. I don't even know what that would look like, you know. But ultimately we had that conversation a lot and I finally decided I just I need to kick the tires, I need to see if there can be done, and back then, you know, I think back of how simple it was, because I went on the CMS website. I found the application to become a hospice provider, downloaded it, printed it, started filling it out. Right, it was just that, that quick.
Quisha:Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait. Let me stop here. There's a lot of okay. I have to just use this as a teaching moment too, and it's a moment to inspire someone. First of all, let me also say kudos to Greg and supportive husbands that is a good thing in itself.
Quisha:I have one. Don't know what I would do without it, and I know, greg, and so shout out to you, greg, for putting the idea in her head. But for people that are listening that are like, oh, I can't start a school, I can't start a hospice, I can't start a clinic, I can't Like, it literally sometimes is easy as going to a website reading all the regulations. As easy as going to a website reading all the regulations, downloading the application, creating the checklist and just marking things off one by one, and so that's it. And you did it. Yeah, I love that. Okay, keep going.
Teresa:And I think to add to your teachable moment, though, I want your listeners and viewers to hear that I'm an associate degree RN. I didn't go back to school for higher education. I didn't do these things. You know, I'd had a lot of leadership experience in nursing, already been blessed with that, and it wasn't really my career trajectory. It wasn't what I envisioned for myself so, but I want people-.
Quisha:No master's, no DNP, no PhD, associate's degree. And I love when I hear you say you know just when I didn't think my little associates could take me any further. Right, exactly, it does. It continues to. I love that. I love that yeah.
Teresa:Well, thank you. And so, yeah, I just started, you know, going through the process, as you said, and doing the checklist. Now, the first hurdle I came up against, or the first challenge was there was this statement on the application that said and doing the checklist. Now, the first hurdle I came up against, or the first challenge was there was this statement on the application that said I would need to submit a letter from my financial organization stating that I had $250,000 in liquid assets to support the business, right? And so I thought, well, if that's the truth, then I'm out. I'm out, can't do, it Won't happen. But there was actually a number on the application that I could call and I dialed the number and someone picked up. Can you even imagine? Someone picked up and I said you know, hey, I'm in the middle of completing this hospice application. I see there's this requirement and she said well, I'm so glad you called because that was just lifted for hospices last week and it still applies to home care agencies, but no longer applies to hospices. So you're good to continue.
Quisha:I said oh my gosh, that's a God moment.
Teresa:It was, and I need to say I was very deeply in prayer during this whole time. You know just, heavenly father, if it's your will, if it's to be, you know, clear, the way you know, let it, let it happen and let me know that I'm on the right path, and whenever a hurdle or a challenge came up, something like this would happen, I would just call and clarify and it was just lifted. And so it was really. It really it was a very intentional journey and I feel like I was just guided along the way to get there. So, you know, we opened our doors, and today's hospices though new hospices have the challenge of having to pay $10,000 to get the state to come out and survey. Your agency Didn't have that back in the early 2000s. I mean, things were easier, faster, better, just the way I like them back in the day, and you know. So I really my heart goes out to the new agencies that are trying to establish themselves today, because that's a lot of money just to pay for one site visit Come on.
Teresa:But then, anyway, we opened our doors and we were Christ-centered, faith-based, family-friendly. Those are the things that we valued, and we had a mantra in our hospice that symptoms identified today are resolved today. We're not going to let the sun go down on a patient in need. And you know, our team was just fabulous, and this is probably the one time in my entire nursing career that the nurses eat. Their young culture never showed up, but I had to own the business. Okay, had to own the business, oh wow.
Quisha:Yeah, to create the kind of culture that you envisioned.
Teresa:Yes, which?
Quisha:speaks a lot, I think, to us as entrepreneurs, especially those of us that are in this series that you know I talk about in in my episode that you'll hear a common theme that the mental health challenges that we're all sharing is not. It's from life, it's not from the business.
Quisha:Like we know, there's going to be ups and downs, but those of us that are really committed to doing this thing and being self employed and creating the culture and supporting others the way we've always wanted to be supported. We'll deal with that. We'll deal with the good, the bad, the ugly. It's just life kicks in, yes, and how do you manage life and the hurdles and challenges that come with it, on top of managing your business and trying to create those wonderful cultures? It sounds like your business was one of those. So you know, fast forward, you're in business, I don't know seven, eight years, I know just personally, since I know you y'all were making millions or had millions in revenues. Tell us about that.
Teresa:Yeah Well, this little hospice. You know, when I downloaded the application I had $6,000 in my hands, you know, to make this dream happen. And we went from that $6,000 investment to 3 million in annual revenue in an area where our population is literally 20 people per square mile. So we are very rural, very, but in my opinion, when we can serve that old farmer on his homestead here in Kansas, out in the middle of nowhere, and make a good death happen, that was just man. That's what it's all about. That is salt of the earth right there.
Quisha:But what I didn't know.
Teresa:I mean, or I'm sure what I knew was the weight and the toll of grief, and many times I felt like the patients and families were like sand sifting through my fingers. You know it's just there's so many and you love them all. You know nursing can say in nursing schools they can tell you till you're blue in the face. You know you don't want it to be personal. Well, I'll tell you this. I don't ever want a nurse taking care of me or anybody in my family if they don't fall in love with us.
Teresa:I'll tell you that right now, because that's what matters you know I'm thinking I hate to.
Quisha:Let me just share this. I was the nurse that when I had a patient that died, especially one that I'd taken care of for weeks. The family would be consoling me, and I know I was like Quisha.
Quisha:You got to get a grip Like the family can't be consoling you. You know I knew that wasn't the area of nursing that I needed to be in. So I give you kudos for the work that you're doing. But absolutely you have to have that empathy and that compassion for the clients. You can't just be in it for the money. That's why we say you have to let purpose guide you. The profits will follow, but purpose guides you.
Teresa:Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree with that, and what I know happened. I have to say that I didn't know all the things that I didn't know about true self-care right, we've all heard it, but who has time for it? In nursing, we just got to do the work at hand, and the other thing was that we said you know, hey, we're Christ centered, right? So, in essence, our menace we were a for-profit business, but we ran and functioned as a ministry, and so when you say you're doing God's work, you can't just go out there and play tiddlywinks either, right? Um, so there was a, a, a high call to really serve and serve well, and ultimately, though, when I did crash and burn for major depression, I do believe it was God saying well done.
Quisha:Really.
Teresa:Because I wouldn't have stepped out had it not happened.
Quisha:Okay, let's take a breather. Let's if you start, I'm going to start. Okay, let's take a breather. Let's um, if you start, I'm going to start Okay.
Teresa:No, I'm good now.
Quisha:It's just that really you said something that really resonated with me, and certainly resonated with some things that I talked about in my episode as well, but you said the weight and toll of grief. Yep, you went through a clinical depression for how long, teresa?
Teresa:Oh my goodness, clinical depression for three long years. Three long years. And really there was a time when I thought I will never function as a nurse again, because how depression reared its ugly head for me is if I felt stressed or anxious. I could not act. I would like be immobilized. I would know that a decision needs to be made, that something needs to be done, but I had no power to act. I would just be like silenced, just stuck, just stuck, just stuck. And so I knew, well, I can't work in an ER, I can't. You know how. How would this ever work with a, with a patient situation? Right, I've always been able to just do whatever needed to be done, and I can't do that anymore.
Teresa:And 18 months into that long treatment. You know, for depression, first of all, there's some really terrible things. You know that at this day and age, to tell a patient who has clinical depression or any kind of mental illness that I'm going to give you this prescription today and six to eight weeks from now you might begin to feel a little better, I have a really hard time that. That is the best we can do today, in 2024.
Quisha:Come on, we've got to be able to figure this out I have to live every day now, yeah, between these six to eight weeks and what's gonna happen between then, and that's a might, that's a maybe a maybe, yeah, yeah.
Teresa:And so they. They asked me one day I went in to see my psychiatrist. That's also a surreal experience, you know. You never imagine that you'll be going to one of those offices, that that's going to happen, and um, but anyway. So I went in and she said write your depression for me today, one being really bad and 10 being you're feeling really good. I said I'm about a three. I said I've been in this treatment for 18 months and I'm about a three.
Teresa:And I was just weeping as I sat there and she said well, teresa, really just a three. And I said yes. I said I'm amazed I'm not in the hospital. I live out in the middle of nowhere. I don't have any, you know. I said I've been suffering along with this all this time. And she said and she? That's when she looked at me and she said well, teresa, do you want to go? I said holy man, I am really sick. Now she's saying do you want to go to the hospital? I'll get you in today.
Teresa:But what I said to her was and I'm so thankful that I was a nurse when I went through this, because I could at times call on my nursing skills and so I knew the importance of compliance and adherence and all those things. But I said to her what? What I her was? Um, I don't think. I said I feel like, if I've gone through this this far by myself at home, I think I can continue at home, but it's time for somebody to get aggressive with my care, aggressive with my medicines. Wow, you know, no more 10 milligram increase, come on. We got to do something different and I was just so grateful that I had the wherewithal advocate for myself.
Teresa:But but then I just thought how many other families go through this and they don't have those skills? I don't know. And that's really sad and really scary. But in any case, um, not much improved after that. I did get a change in my medicines, but I wasn't on combination therapy. I didn't really know the benefit of combination therapy. So I did experience a hospitalization because I had intrusive thoughts. I never had suicidal thoughts.
Quisha:I didn't know, I didn't, I didn't. I don't think I've ever known that.
Teresa:Well, yeah, yeah, you know, there was a time when I didn't want anybody toha, but now I don't care who knows, because I think people need to know that depression looks like smiling, high, achieving people. Oh my God, yes, right.
Quisha:Yes, and how many smiling high achieving people do we know?
Teresa:Well, when I looked at your, at your promo for this series, I see all those smiling faces lined up to talk about mental health challenges. That's what it looks like.
Quisha:That's what it looks like. Thank you for saying that. That's exactly what it looks like. So where was your business in all of this? You were in business 10 years. When did the depression set?
Teresa:in the depression came like right at the end of about year eight nine, I really started feeling it. I mean, suddenly we had at that time we had our hospice that we were running. We also had a couple of aging care homes that we'd opened under group home licensure in the state of Kansas to bring the hospice house philosophy to rural Northeast Kansas and that was a whole other God thing. I'll stop for a second to share that fun story that we. We went in to do that deal. This was just another God thing because Greg and I were like, yeah, I don't know where the money's going to come from, right, I don't know how this deal is ever going to happen. But we went and we talked to the banker. President of the bank comes out and he said hi, teresa, it's good to see you again. You took care of my Uncle Harold. Wow, and I was just this is done.
Quisha:And that's why you never know what is it saying. You never know when you're entertaining an angel or you never. You know, always be good to people, because you never know when you will need them again.
Teresa:Exactly.
Quisha:Come across them again in the future. Wow.
Teresa:Yeah, just incredible, I mean, the things that happened. I just I look back and just think wow, you know not of my, not of my might.
Quisha:It was not your anything you could have done.
Teresa:No, not, not at all. And just the trust and the. You know the, the trust and loyalty that those people had for us and how they advocated for us was just incredible. But back to the depression story, yeah, I ended up in the hospital at one point and it was shortly before my daughter's wedding. It was it just broke my heart that I had to go in then. She had just graduated high school, she got married very young to a wonderful guy.
Teresa:But I ended up just with a lot of intrusive thoughts. And you know, my intrusive thoughts were not suicidal thoughts, but they were just thoughts of just ugly, bloody, terrible things and when I would get stressed, that's all I would see in my mind's eye. And it was awful and they were persistent, you know they just they just didn't go away. They just didn't go away for a couple of days and we called the hospital and they said, no, you need to get her in here. And um, you know that was Greg just being so good and just doing whatever needed to be done. I mean, lord knows he was confused. Where's my high functioning woman? Where did she go? This?
Quisha:wasn't a two or three month, like you know, in my case, a few months. This was what three years years. Wow, at what point it started. Around year eight, you said you were in business for 10 years. At one point did you decide it's time to close the doors?
Teresa:Yeah, like 2010, 2011,. We were there because I couldn't work anymore and there was a time I picked up the phone and I called the board of nursing this is another piece of my story that I called the board of nursing and said I am an impaired nurse, I cannot work, I have a mental illness, right, but I wanted to again just a little tiny bit of advocation for myself. Right, I wanted to take care of my nursing license and I didn't know at that point, I didn't know, I had not had the feelings that I may never return, but I just needed to report what was going on. I mean, here's the blueprint leader in me showing up, right, I'm going to tell on myself.
Teresa:But I'm so grateful that I did that, because the what is it? The Kansas nurse assistance program that I reported to they said well, we're going to. First of all, I had the most compassionate voice on the other end of the phone. Somebody said, oh my goodness, are you okay? Are you thinking of hurting yourself or, you know, are you in any danger? Do you have somebody to support you?
Teresa:I mean, it was the kindest conversation and then just told me well, you're going to get a letter and the letter's going to require, you know, it's going to state some requirements You're going to have to go through some therapy, you're going to have to get an evaluation from a psychiatrist. So, if anything, it just steered me, you know, toward getting exactly what I needed. I was already had those things in place, but it just allowed this open line of communication, you know, between me and the board to protect my license, and I hear so many stories about boards of nursing doing a lot of crazy things today, but I suppose that's another story, that one board of nursing is not every board of nursing, right, and so we have to open our minds to the idea that we might be met with kindness.
Quisha:Yeah, which is exactly what you needed in that moment.
Teresa:Oh my god yeah, yeah, I was so grateful, I was so grateful, wow, yeah so you called and basically told them you were not fit.
Quisha:Yep um I know that decision to close the doors have to have been tough for you or Greg, or maybe by that time, after now struggling with depression for three years, it wasn't tough.
Teresa:Tell me a little bit about that that's a great question and I, you know it was all very, very hard and all very challenging. And when this first happened, I mean I was on the national steering committee or the national CEO steering committee for the national hospice and palliative care organization. I was part of other committees, yeah, helping to. You know, advance hospice and I, you know that was a time of just cutting, cutting cords, cutting ties and letting go of any commitments that I couldn't and letting go of any commitments that I couldn't do anymore, couldn't complete anymore, and that was really sad.
Teresa:I just can't tell you how stressful not stressful, but how sorrowful that was, because I'd worked hard to achieve those things right, hard to gain that kind of authority and credibility. And just to say, you know, I've got this personal thing going on. I am no longer able to serve, I need to resign effective, immediately Done. And and I asked Greg one day, I said is it okay to do this kind of thing just over email? And he said yes, it is. You just do what you need to do.
Quisha:You do what you need to do.
Teresa:Yeah, I think I've had those phone conversations. That would have been do.
Quisha:Yeah, I think you had those phone conversations. That would have been, it would have been tough. You know, I did something very, very similar a few months ago when I was going through the middle of mine and I juggled for four months. And I think it again, we're multi-passionate overachievers, right? I'm not surprised you were serving on this board and that board and have this business and the hospice houses and all of these things. And I think one of the things that we're not saying that leads to these different conditions is burnout. It is burnout that is manifesting as anxiety or as depression or as trouble sleeping. It is burnout because we are, as nurses and as helping professionals, we want to help. We have the skill set to help and to lead, right, we're really good at it, we've been doing it all of our careers, but it doesn't mean we're supposed to be doing all the things.
Teresa:Right and.
Quisha:I also put my. I literally had to come to a point where the nonprofit that I founded I just didn't have it in me to do it anymore. And it was the same thing. I sent an email and I, I hit send so that and I waited to where I couldn't retrieve it and then I picked up the phone and had a conversation and I said if I didn't send the email first, I would have never had the courage to then follow up with the conversation and say I just I don't have the capacity for it in my life right now.
Quisha:You still love it, you still support it, oh yeah, but when you're in that type of stage, you have to prioritize me.
Teresa:Yes.
Quisha:Yes, and that's really hard.
Teresa:It's such a challenge for us as nurses and that's really hard. It's such a challenge for us as nurses and, like I say, you know, I think in my heart of hearts, I would have continued. I would have just continued had God not cut me off at the knees.
Quisha:At your expense, at your physical, mental, emotional expense would have still continued to pour into and serve others.
Teresa:I would have, and so you know, like I said, I truly believe that was just God's way of saying you've done enough, Because sometimes we operate outside of our assignment. Yes.
Quisha:You know we're meant to be in seasons, do certain things and to work in certain positions or to have certain businesses.
Teresa:And.
Quisha:I'm very much like you. I believe that God does certain things for a reason. It was you were operating outside of your season.
Teresa:Your assignment was up. Yeah, it was up, it was up. And the funny thing well it's funny now it was up, it was up, and the funny thing and well it's funny, now it was. I mean, I don't know, but here's the thing. I had so many offers of people wanting to buy our hospice over the years. It wasn't even fun. It wasn't uncommon for me to get two or three calls a week.
Teresa:Teresa, we hear you're substantial there in northeast Kansas. I have a very interested buyer. They'd love to take over your organization. Yada y, yada, yada. I'm like you know, we would just never sell. What the heck was I talking about? Retired as a millionaire when I was 45. But you know, hindsight's 20-20. And I'm truly grateful for the experience. I'm grateful for the advances that we made in hospice here, because when we started, median length of stay for that six-month benefit was only three days. By the time we sold, 10 years later, it had increased to 21 days. We made a significant impact on access to hospice care and services and what the community in general knows about it and expects from it. We raised the bar, and I'm I am unapologetic, you know, for any, for any of that. And only now, though can I really say that was, that was quite a thing you know, but when we folded, when we sold, all I could feel was failure, Massive, massive failure.
Teresa:And everybody in the community knows and we're a small community, right, 10,000 people in our county and I served five counties. We were the predominant hospice. So who doesn't know Teresa Sanderson, who's been on radio commercials, who's been writing press releases every week for the paper, who's been? You know all of these things. That was a really hard time.
Quisha:Did that feeling of failure send you into a spiral of sorts as far as your depression is concerned?
Teresa:I don't know about a spiral, but I know it didn't make it any easier. It didn't make it any easier. And one thing I know that I would be remiss not to mention is that when I developed major depression and began the process of recovery, I learned that I didn't know who I was, outside of my identity of being a nurse.
Quisha:Okay, that's wild. I think, that, oh wow. I think that identity crisis is something that many people can resonate with, because you know, for me and my story and the infertility struggles, it's finding my identity outside of a woman that can bear children, no longer bear children, right, and so that was something that I had to really as I was in therapy every week push past your more than your ability to conceive, your more than your ability to deliver.
Quisha:And that's tough because in our heads we're one thing, we see ourselves one way, even though we're multidimensional. When we find out that's not who this person is that's looking back in the mirror it can be very jolting.
Teresa:Mm-hmm, exactly, exactly, and yeah, and so I realized that and a big part of my therapy was just finding my worth as a woman, as a wife, a daughter, a sibling, a friend, you know, and figuring out, excuse me, what do I, who am I? What do I enjoy? Because all of my life had just been geared toward that success journey. You know, and it's interesting, and I have to say, you know, our parents do the best they can with us, right? But a lot of my struggle began as a little girl you find all these things right and I didn't lay on a couch, if anybody's ever wondering if there's a couch in the psychiatrist's office.
Quisha:I've never laid on a couch In 2020,. I've just been on the Zoom.
Teresa:Yeah, exactly, exactly so. But I just remember, you know, when they asked that question. So tell me about your childhood. I'm like really we're doing this, but I remember I would leave for school every morning and um, as a young girl up to my teenage years and beyond, and my mom would just say do your best. Sounds like a wonderful message. Yeah, but every day do your best. Can I, can I take a breather? Can I?
Quisha:you know, it's the way that.
Teresa:I internalize that. Did that happen to my other siblings? No, but it happened to me. You know, do your best, do your best, do your best. Well, dang it. If I'm doing anything, I better do my friggin best. Yeah, you know. So I never. I didn't give myself permission to let down. And so well now you know Quisha'm so through recovery, I'm like the poster child for depression recovery and I say to people I am purposefully imperfect anymore. I show up imperfect and I don't care anymore. I'm so far beyond it. But that perfectionism is brutal.
Quisha:And I always like to say I'm a recovering perfectionist, right? Um, you know we were. We were talking before, before we started um recording, and Teresa and I said, oh Teresa, you got your mic on, you must be doing some recording today.
Teresa:And she was like yeah, I did some recording on something and it didn't even come out perfect, but I don't care, it's just done and I'm like you know, yes, we, we get to this point where done is better than perfect.
Quisha:And this is right after she was like oh yeah, I was in the RV all last week, so I want to make sure I put that plug in there too. This is the. When she says her business is in a backpack, she seriously means her business is in a backpack because her and Greg are in that RV and they're everywhere. It does not skip a beat, which is which is what I aspire to be and how I aspire to be when I grow up.
Quisha:But no, I think that's for individuals like us and I can even think about you know, I'm going to mess with one of my sisters here if she's listening, but you know sometimes that pressure comes from others but a lot of the times when you're an overachiever, the pressure comes from you yep like, and I was telling my mentees a couple of days ago we were doing our quarter four goals and I was saying, hey guys, nobody knows what your goal is.
Quisha:Nobody knows if you don't meet your goal by December except for you you know, and I remember I would be so hard on myself if I wouldn't meet my quarterly goals or my annual goals and I'd beat myself up. I'm like, wait a minute, but nobody even knows what they are Like. I'm the one who wrote them down on my spreadsheets, you know. So it's, it's something that people have got to matter of fact, what is your advice for and I'll share mine as well for getting out of that need to be perfect or to have everything perfect, because it does cause analysis, paralysis and it causes a lot of procrastination, because it's not. I'm not going to launch my website yet because it's not right. I'm not going to write the book yet because it's not quite right. I'm not going to start the business because I don't quite have everything fleshed out right now. And then they end up three, five, seven years later they haven't started doing anything, haven't done it anything.
Teresa:So how did you get out of that? Through recovery was the path to intentional living, and when you live with intention, you know the intention is very different. It's not living Monday through Friday, paycheck to paycheck or you know that kind of thing anymore. It's about where's the quality in my days, where's the joy, where's the meaning and the memories that I want to take with me. So it's about putting in.
Teresa:You know, franklin Covey used to call it the big rocks. Right, get the big rocks in and let go of all the filler. And that's what perfectionism is. It's all the filler that keeps us from doing the big things that are going to make a difference, you know, in our lives and our family's lives and our legacy, all of those things that we, that we long for. And so I think for me it was a couple of things that was learning, learning more about me and learning what?
Teresa:What is it in me that triggers me to feel like even though you know, hey, I'm a hospice professional, I've owned a hospice. Surely, before I teach a class on hospice, I need to read 25 more books, right? You know, there's something in that, that imposter syndrome that comes up for all of us and for me a lot of the times it was you're an ADN. Who are you to be? You know to be doing these things, but you know now what. I own it, and I own it proudly, because I've had 15 to 20 path. I've chosen to do it differently, but now I can look at myself and I can see myself in a kind way, and so one of the things I say to people a lot as far as advice is judge yourself kindly yourself kindly you know, treat yourself the way you would treat someone you dearly love it's hard for people to be good to themselves.
Quisha:I didn't realize that I have a lot of friends and family that one of their biggest struggle is forgiving themselves for things they've done in the past. And we all know forgiveness can really affect your ability to move on in a relationship. But I didn't know until I started noticing that people struggle with this, how huge it impacts your own life when you can't forgive yourself for a mistake or for, you know, a past relationship or a bad decision or whatever that is, and then it ultimately leads to where you know they don't trust their future decisions because they've done in the past.
Teresa:Right.
Quisha:And that's just a horrible place to be in. So I love your advice treat yourself how you would treat someone else, provided that you're treating them well and treating them good, you know. But but we tend to forget about we are literally our hardest critics, yes, our toughest critics, and that's so unfortunate. Um, where I think the word is grace. You know, showing ourselves grace cannot be understated.
Teresa:And I think it all starts with you you know, pouring to yourself.
Quisha:First prioritize your self-care and mental health. Love yourself.
Teresa:Love yourself.
Quisha:Because then you can love others. It really doesn't work the other way around. And I know it feels unnatural, when you're a helping professional, to always be like oh well, I have to put myself first right, Because service is what we do. Service is how we love. It's how we show our love. But, at the expense of your physical, mental and emotional health? Not anymore. And that's what I had to say to myself not anymore, quisha, you've got to come first.
Quisha:And that way, you're at your a hundred percent, you're able to do those things and take care of others the way that you want to. So what's been your biggest lesson from your mental health journey as an entrepreneur?
Teresa:My biggest lesson. As you know, as an entrepreneur and I'll say this first I have tried several times to be someone else's employee since I owned the hospice. I mean, and I can be a good employee, don't get me wrong, but I am quick to get frustrated in systems that don't change the slow corporate wheels. I can't, you know, handle that. Now, travel nursing I dabbled in that and I've got to tell you that is so liberating for nurses because you're not wedded to the politics of any organization. I'm here. You want me standing on one foot today? Perfect, I'll do it.
Teresa:Yeah, I'm here for 12 hours. Whatever you want, you got it. But working for myself myself, I have found is the absolute best way for me to take care of my mental health yeah.
Teresa:I can do what I need to do for me whenever, and and people would say, well, you know, you've got all the stress of you got to generate this income, you got to do this, you got to do that. What I say to that is I've worked a lot harder for a lot less money in a lot less life-giving places, right? So yeah, this is for me. I love money and a lot less life giving places, right? So yeah, this is for me.
Quisha:I love that. And our good friend Nina Hart. She said once to me, and I always quote this I was not, I am not meant to work for someone else.
Quisha:She said that one day we were talking and she just said it out of frustration. I am not meant to work for someone else and I was like I have to agree with you and if you're listening or watching this video, please don't think that everybody I've said that in another interview. I want to make sure I say that some people are called for corporate America, some people are called for self-employment. We're not saying that you have to be an entrepreneur, right? We're talking about the context of mental health as it pertains to entrepreneurs, because that's something that is near and dear to my heart and, of course, the guests that are on this show. But I think it is good to just know you and know what you are capable of and what you will tolerate and what you won't tolerate, and so I always like to share. You know, I asked my husband about 18 months ago should I go back to?
Quisha:work, you know we were exploring me, potentially getting the job that covered fertility benefits, and he was like no, no, you are so much better working for yourself. And I thought that I was really surprised by that, like I felt, like I was better you know, working for myself, but for him, who lives with me every day, to be able to say no, you're so much better you know, being your own boss.
Quisha:So, yeah, so I completely agree with everything that you just said. You've shared so many gems and jewels throughout our entire conversation, but is there two to three key takeaways that you want the audience to remember from today's episode?
Teresa:I think, first of all, you know when, when people get a diagnosis of depression, they feel like it's it's done, I'm here and there's no way out of it. I want them to know that full recovery is possible, returning to your joy and getting your joy back is possible and living a full and complete life in a whole new way is possible. And I think that's really important because of the stigma right, the stigma that comes from a diagnosis of depression or even anxiety or anything like that. There's such a stigma with it, but full recovery is possible. Now, that being said, I consider myself, I consider my, I say that I'm recovered, and Greg says no, you're recovering, and I think that's true. I will always be recovering.
Teresa:And what I say to people is I've learned to dance with my depression. I've learned to take it easy on days when I need to take it easy. I've learned that it's okay to rest. I've learned that when I feel really good, it's okay for me to chase my dreams, chase my goals really hard and just do all the things. But it's the grace that you talked about. Have that grace for yourself and you can do these things.
Teresa:I still take some medicines today, but I have to, and I love holistic medicine right, I think there's many of us that do, and so, while I would love, there's a big part of me that would love to not take medicines. I also recognize the quality of my days with the medicines that I'm taking, and I've been able to let go of five of them from the days when I was in the depths of depression, so that, to me, is a massive win. Okay, but I'm concerned about the quality of my days, the ability of me to be present for my family and not just sitting on the sidelines of life because I don't want to take any medicines. You know what I mean. For me, that's the personal choice that I've made.
Quisha:Yeah, I love that. You know. It reminded me of something that I heard when I was going through the midst of it as well, and I'm a show up person, just like you. You know, if I come, I'm showing up, I'm giving 110% and this podcast and I can't remember what podcast it was now but they said on the days where you only have 50% to give, why are you giving a hundred percent?
Teresa:Yep.
Quisha:And. I was like that's me. Yeah, I give 100% when I don't have 100 to give. And so now to your point showing grace on days when I wake up and I know I only have 50, that's all I give.
Teresa:Exactly, exactly. I got to refuel.
Quisha:You're getting 70, right. If I don't have but 10, it's an I'm in bed kind of day. Right it's a I'm in bed kind of day Right. But it's being it's. It's being in tune with yourself and being able to identify what that looks like and owning it, and not you know, of course I'll say in a minute, fake it till you make it right. But when it comes to your mental health, you just do what you can do, and no more.
Teresa:Oh, I love that, I love that and I think it's true. You know, when you think about it in the typical nursing environment, we have to rethink so many things that we do in nursing because somehow if you have a fever is like the only reason you should really call off from your nursing gig right.
Teresa:Whereas no, if I have, if I'm having a depressive day and I am symptomatic, I should be able to call in for that, because my decision making is not going to be at its peak. If I'm anxious, you have people's lives in your hands, exactly, exactly. So we have to recognize really the impact of this, and when we put people in a situation where they can't take a day, that's you know, we're just adding to the problem, we're compounding it. One of the things I learned about as I came back to work after those three years, I did a simple little $10 an hour work at home job with Sprint. It was collections. It was one of the funniest things I've ever done in my life. But I needed the structure in my days and I needed to test the waters for can I work Right? So I chose this simple, dimple little thing that didn't require nobody's living, nobody's. You know. It's not life and death and um but um.
Teresa:It is through that little $10 an hour job that I remember I talked to my manager because they had a really tight attendance policy and if you missed more than three days and six months or in a year, you know you were going to get canned. And so I talked to my supervisor and I said you know, I said I, not many people know this I said but I have major depression, I'm recovering and but there are some times when I just need a, I need a day. You know, I need a mental day and if that's going to count toward my attendance, you know I, I probably won't be here very long. Well, thankfully I was, of course, showing up as a top performer.
Quisha:You are just so brutally honest.
Teresa:Showing up. Well, and and he said you know, teresa, we need to get you some reasonable accommodation. Wow, I said what are you talking about? And he said I'm going to connect you to the legal team and human resources and we're going to establish reasonable accommodation for you. They can give you a certain number of days per month that you could take off without it affecting your attendance record, so you can take care of yourself this. I found I'd never heard anything of this in nursing all of my years and I just thought this is what nurses need. Nurses need to know about reasonable accommodation. It's so much more than an EAP and getting a one-time counseling visit. Come on, nurses need resources.
Teresa:Yeah, they need resources that are going to help them stay in the game. Otherwise they're going to crash and burn like I did, and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. What happened to me? So anymore I tell anybody this story and I try and connect them with resources and tools that'll help them.
Quisha:Yeah, man, I love this story, man, it truly is a crumbling and a rebuilding. And then, just like you said, to go from $6,000 to 3 million to close that business and you know, three years of hard depression and, um, you know, thankfully you had Greg.
Quisha:Yes, oh my gosh, you know you. You were not averse to taking medication. Of course you have the therapy. You did all of the things you found yourself and your identity outside of who you were serving in your business, and I think there's just so many things that could be learned from your lesson. So you just finished talking about you know nursing could use some of what you you know at the phone company you had there, and earlier you mentioned Nurses Feed your Young. I want you to take the last couple of minutes to share more about that movement and give us any kind of resources or website or something where our listeners and viewers can find more information about Nurses Feed their Young if they're interested.
Teresa:Oh, I love it. Thank you for the opportunity. I so appreciate it. Nurses Feed their Young.
Teresa:You know again, we're all about transforming nursing culture. You know again, we're all about transforming nursing culture, and one of our primary, my primary focus with this is putting action behind appreciation for nurses. Nurses are tired of this lip service. Oh, we appreciate you, we appreciate you, but nobody's really ponying up anything. You know, we can talk appreciation until we're blue in the face, but until we start doing something differently, nothing's going to change. So the NIFTY member community that's our acronym and it's so fun.
Teresa:But the NIFTY member community is an online community that provides a space for the entire continuum of nurses. Whether you are a CNA, a nursing student, any level of licensure, or a nurse entrepreneur, there's a safe space for you in this community where you can come and find resources for self-care. We have nurses who have now transitioned from intensive care nurses to working in self-care as yoga therapists or Reiki practitioners or aromatherapy just different kinds of healers and so they're in here to support our community. And for nursing students. We have support for nursing students because if we don't nurture the students, we can't, you know, improve our hiring rates right, and all of these things. And also we have support for CNAs who may want to elevate and come up in nursing, which I think is vitally important. Let's just don't, you know, we can't put people in silos and just expect that's where they're going to stay for the rest of their career. That's just wrong thinking. But also space for our seasoned nurses who are tired, who are worn down, and they've been waiting for decades for the new nurses to show up. We've got support for them and access for them to new ideas about how might they start a business or how can they become an entrepreneur, as you know, as you and I talk about Quisha and start making changes within their own facilities and organizations.
Teresa:Today is the time for us to rethink the way we've done everything in nursing. Nothing about how we've set up our profession has been designed for longevity right. Just thinking of our traditional scheduling patterns in the hospital that lack flexibility and lack, you know. They create no pathway for a nurse to really have balance in his or her life. It's just it's this or nothing, you know. And until someone's been faced with those decisions like, well, am I working Christmas Eve or Christmas or New Year's? Year after year after year, those are painful choices. Those are painful choices and I think it's wrong for us to act like this kind of schedule in nursing has ever been life-giving, because it's not.
Teresa:It's just not. So now's the time for us to rethink everything, and Nurses Feed their Young is a community for nurses to allow us to improve and develop ourselves personally and professionally and kind of heal and mend ourselves right when we need that safe space to talk about things and discuss and maybe make plans, but also to unite as a group of nurses so that we can make impactful changes for the future. So that's what we're all about.
Quisha:I love it. And where can people find more information about Nurses Feed their Young?
Teresa:Oh my gosh, just go to our website nursesfeedtheiryoungcom. You can also find us on LinkedIn. Nurses Feed their Young has a page also on Facebook and, yeah, we would love to connect with you.
Quisha:And if people want to follow you and your thought leadership, where can they follow or connect with you?
Teresa:Well, you can find me on LinkedIn. I am the Teresa Sanderson. On YouTube, I have a lot of video content for you at Teresa Sanderson TV and on Facebook I am just sandersonteresa. You can find me there.
Quisha:I love it. This has been awe-inspiring. Thank you so much for sharing your journey.
Teresa:Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you and thank you for being in my space, girl, I'm always inspired by you All right lady I love you Talk to you soon.
Quisha:Thank you, ma'am. Thanks for tuning in to the Public Healthpreneur podcast, the show that helps you navigate the intersection of purpose and profit to make impact and income. I'm Quisha Omeba, the public healthpreneur, and I hope you enjoyed today's episode. For all things public health entrepreneurship, be sure to follow me on social media at Quisha Omemba or the public healthpreneur. You're also invited to join the public healthpreneur's Facebook group, where we continue the conversation after each podcast episode. Need help to start, grow and scale a profitable public health consulting business.
Quisha:Need help to start, grow and scale a profitable public health consulting business? Hire me to be your coach. Want to pick my brain? Buy my book Public Health Entrepreneurship Navigating the Intersection of Purpose and Profit, available at all major book retailers and on my website at kwishamembacom. Until next time.
