"What is Divination? How does it Work?" - Roundtable Dialogue

Hi Everybody, Granddaughter Crow Here. With yet another episode of Belief, Being, & BEYOND! On this show, we love bringing Great People to Great People. Week after week, Jenny C. Bell and I get to showcase Amazing Authors, Authentic Creators, and Dedicated Spiritualists and every once in a while we host a Roundtable Dialogue where we can sit down with these creators. And tonight, is a Roundtable Night.

At our last Roundtable we explored the complex topic of AI or Artificial Intelligence vs the HI or Human Intelligence. How people in the Spiritual and Witchcraft community view AI” in 2026! It was a brilliant dialogue, and We did have an anonymous consensus on “Using AI as a Spiritual Advisor, is NOT the Best idea” 

So, that begs the question, “What are other options to connect with spirit?”

Tonight, We are going to explore the topic of “Divination”! What is it and different tools… and see where the dialogue takes us.  We have an expansive panel for you tonight… So let’s start the show! 

Divination looks mysterious from the outside, but the reality is much more human: it’s what we reach for when we need clarity, perspective, and a path forward. This Roundtable includes experienced readers, authors, and creators to unpack what divination, how it works, and the wander of it all. From tarot and oracle cards to runes, pendulums, charms, bones, moon phases, and pure intuitive hits, we compare tools and the real reasons they help people make sense of their lives.
 
 We also get practical about ritual and process. We talk about opening sacred space, setting ego aside, grounding before and after a session, and more. You’ll hear why asking better questions matters, how consent and dialogue can deepen a reading, and what to do when a card doesn’t make sense right away. If you’ve ever wondered whether you “have to” pull cards every day, or felt guilty when your practice ebbs and flows, we give you permission to build a divination practice that fits your body, your schedule, and your reality.
 
 Finally, we name the quiet truths that newer readers rarely hear: many pros won’t read for themselves when as they might be too close to the outcome. Self-doubt is often the biggest block. Divination is a kind of literacy and a practice of attention, one that gets stronger with time, play, experimentation, and trust. If this conversation helps you, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s curious about tarot and divination, and leave a review so more listeners can find us.

 Roundtable Guests -  

Deborah Blake: www.DeborahBlakeAuthor.com

 Christopher Marmolejo: www.TheRedRead.com

 Jen Sankey: www.stardustwanderertarot.com

Transcript

Round Table Night Setup

GDC 0:01

Welcome to Belief Being and Beyond with your host, Granddaughter Crow. Hi everybody, Granddaughter Crow here with yet another episode of Belief Being and Beyond. So on this show, we love bringing great people to great people. Week after week, Jenny C. Bell and I get to showcase amazing authors, authentic creators, and dedicated spiritualists. And every once in a while, we host a round table dialogue where we can sit down with these creators. And tonight, tonight is a round table night. So at our last round table, we explored the complex topic of AI or artificial intelligence versus HI or human intelligence. How people in the spiritual and witchcraft community view AI in 2026. It was a brilliant dialogue. Check it out. We did have an anonymous consensus at that time that using AI as a spiritual advisor or teacher is not the best idea. So that begs the question: well, then what are the other options to connect with spirit? So tonight we are going to explore the topic of divination, what it is, the different tools, and we're just going to see where this dialogue takes us. We have an expansive panel for you tonight. So without further ado, welcome to the round table dialogue.

Meet The Divination Panel

GDC 1:52

First and foremost, hi, I am your host, Granddaughter Crow. You can find me on the podcast. I am an author of a bunch of books, more to come. I am a teacher online as well as I do one-on-one sessions. If you don't know, now you know www.granddaughtercrow.com. So Jenny, would you like to Jenny C. Bell is in the house? Would you like to introduce yourself?

Jenny 2:20

Hi, everybody. I'm Jenny C. Bell. I am super excited to talk about divination. Um, I actually do card readings on Etsy. I am an Etsy witch. Ooh, taboo taboo. Um, I also do readings on my website, and you can find me at jennycy Bell.com. I'm also an author and I'm super excited to be here. I brought a couple of favorite divination tools. One is my cosmic creator oracle deck, which is self-published and small batch. I have, because I'm with people who will actually appreciate this, I have a special tarot from Italy that is hand painted and is my like prized card collection. And I have my fortune-telling book that I grew up with that was in our household. And this is actually how I first learned to do any kind of divination. Um, it's fortune telling for fun and popularity. Okay.

GDC 3:20

I love it, I love it, I love it. So we also have Deborah Blake is in the house. Tell us who you are and where people can find you.

Deborah 3:30

Hello. Uh I'm Deborah Blake. I am the author of, I don't know, like 20 books from Llewellyn, uh, maybe 19. I don't know, I've lost track. As well as The Everyday Witch Tarot, which is reasonably popular with folks. Thank you, folks. Um, I do professional tarot reading, have done that for like 30 years. When COVID came, I started also doing it online. So you can find me on my website, Deborah Blakeauthor.com. I also have a couple of Oracle decks, the Everyday Witch Oracle and the new one, the Everyday Witches Familiars Oracle, which is full of cool animals, including animals like I don't know, unicorns and phoenixes. You meet those every day, right? Um, and I also use uh other tools like runestones and um you know pendulums, all sorts of things. Um I I like to use divination as a way to help people get in touch with the answers they're looking for that lie within themselves, but sometimes they need a little push to find them.

GDC 4:56

That is so beautiful. I love that because the answers do lie within. It's just sometimes we get confused on the path to get there. I agree. We also have Christopher Marmalejo is in the house. Let us know who you are. Show us your toys.

Christopher 5:15

Yes, hello, happy to be here. I love the toys. Um because divination should be fun, right? I am the author of Red Tarot, uh Decolonial Guides, Divinatory Literacy, which I've got here, which is published by North Atlantic. Um, and I primarily, given the title of my text, work with tarot, but I also love astrology and really work at the intersection of those systems and kind of use tarot as the terminus for thinking about divination and various divination systems as a whole. I've got the classic writer weight here, and um, from my dear friend, fellow diviner, and author, Ideal suggestions, essays in divinatory poetics by Sela Sederstrom. Um and excited to get into our conversation today, so thank you for having me. And you can find my work. Um, I offer readings and teach a bunch of classes at theredread.com and theredread.beehive.com for my newsletter.

GDC 6:22

Oh, thank you so much, Christopher. And now we have Jen Sankey is in the house. Introduce yourself and show us what things you like to divinate with.

Jen S 6:36

My name is Jen Sankey. I am a practicing witch, tarot reader, author, speaker, teacher. Like uh, we just do all the things. I don't even know. So it's just all the things, but one of the things that we all love is divination. So um, I've been reading tarot since about 12 years old. Um, so my relationship with divination has really evolved, grown, and branched off and branched in and all of those things. But I also create tarot. So some of the tarot decks that I have, uh I've started wonder tarot. This is the first edition, this is self-published, and it is currently out of print. I do have a few left, like rare four. So if you really want one, let me know. Um, and then US Games picked it up, and this is the second edition. So this is going to be coming out this summer. Super excited about that. Then we have our enchanted forest sea lines. This is with Llewellyn. Um, and this is a super fun deck. Um, I also have Goblin Whispers Tarot that's coming out with Llewellyn, um, and we're kind of in progress with that. And then also manifesting by the moon. And this came out in the beginning of the year, super fun. Um, and it is all about the moon, and it's actually using the moon for divination as well, because I use tarot with the moon phases. So that is one way that I really love to harness divination. But I also wanted to include one of the first ways that I really started using divination or as a child. Magic eight-ball. Who didn't use that? No, I've had this for so long, and it is the stupidest but the best prize possession of divination that I have, just so you know. But I also love to use charms. This is my little charm box. And then another thing that I absolutely adore using is, and this is my pretty shell case, is bones. I love to divinate with bones um and just things I find out in nature because I do feel that there is, you know, nature, the earth has so much to tell us. And by harnessing that, you can really get some interesting and sometimes quirky fun readings as well. So those are kind of some of the things that I that I love to divinate with. Um, and I also do readings, I do tea leaf readings, all of those things. You can find me at Stardustwonderot.com or on Instagram as well. And I think that was it.

GDC 9:22

That was it. Thank you so much. I love that. I love that you also brought in the natural world and divinating with the moon, right? Because I was born under the sun sign of cancer and I am all about the moon, right? I absolutely love it. So, Jenny, what is our first question or topic that we're gonna be doing?

Defining Divination And How It Works

Jenny 9:48

Yeah, I'm really curious about there's so many aspects of divination, and we already had like a little touch on that, but I'm curious how each one of you personally defines divination. Like how, if someone's brand new and they're like, divination, what's that? How are you gonna define it? And then secondly, I'm more importantly, I'm really curious how each one of us thinks about how it works. So, what is divination and how do you think it actually works? So, two-parter.

GDC 10:19

I love it. I'm gonna go ahead and jump in and say for me, divination is the interface between that which is unseen and who we are as humans and the seen world. That's very broad, but it basically is talking about um how it kind of works is that I'll go here with it. There is a word named psyche that we use in the English language, and in the English language, it usually is defined in somewhat of an individualized term. Um to other speakers of different languages, to include the Navajo Nation, psyche is more about breath, life force. And in that, I because it's something that we are in together, but it is unseen. And so the best way I like to describe this is I do believe that psyche is individual, but I also believe that psyche is like the pool or the water that we as fish are swimming in. And when there is movement from one, another picks it up. And when you can take it from the movement and put it into your psyche and understand it in whatever language you speak, signs and symbols or whatever, when it starts making sense to you individually, that's what I think is going on. So, Jenny, what do you think?

Jenny 12:05

Um, I love that. I've actually always seen the like collective as a web. And then later I learned that was uh really common. Jamie Sam's is one of my favorite authors, and she talked about like the web of creation. And so people will often ask, and I'm sure you all get asked this too, well, how can you read for someone remotely, like via computer or whatever? And it's because I believe in that web that that we can tap in to any soul anywhere on the planet through that web and connect, right? So for me, divination is a way of looking at the past, present, or future with spirit, with you know, divine essence. And then we connect to each other through that web, and that's to me how it works. It's like I'm connecting with the person I'm reading for, or my own energy, and I'm connecting with guides, and I believe in spirit guides and angels, and that's who is guiding me to connect back to the person or to myself. So that's how I kind of see divination.

GDC 13:06

I love that. I love that. So, Deborah Blake, it's Europe. How do you see divination and how does it work?

Deborah 13:17

That's a really good question. Uh so I see divination, at least the way I use it, is mostly as a way to either answer questions or find guidance. When people reach out to me and say, you know, I need a tarot reading or whatever, um, it's because there's something going on in their lives that they need some sort of guidance with. And sometimes it's the answer to a specific question, sometimes it's just, okay, I'm a little lost. I don't know which direction to go in. And so for me, divination is a way of finding those answers that don't lie in obvious everyday ways. You know, you can be practical and pragmatic, which I pretty much am, but sometimes looking at the practical and pragmatic doesn't give you the answers you need. And then divination is an alternative which taps into something. Uh, you know, I as a tarot reader, as a psychic, I don't believe the answers come from me. I'm not giving people the answers. I'm a conduit for the universe, for God and goddess, whatever you want to call it. You know, when I do a reading for somebody, I am not the person who is answering their questions. I'm just opening myself up for the answers to come or for the direction or whatever it is. And obviously I play an important part or they wouldn't be calling on me, but I am not the person with the answers. I'm just the person who says, Well, I'm pretty sure the universe is telling you to stop stalling and get off your butt. Or something to that effect.

GDC 15:25

I love it. And that's a very, very good point. I absolutely agree. Um, in when I'm divinating for another, I literally am like, sometimes I don't even know what I said because it's just like, you know, that clear conduit. So that's a wonderful point. So, Christopher Marmaleho, what do you think?

Christopher 15:48

Yeah, I love the um the conduit as well. I mean, in in you saying that, Deborah, I'm thinking of Benabalwen and like a part of a part in the massive tome on the Aiching that she recently released with North Atlantic, uh, makes the distinction between the diviner and the fortune teller. And the fortune teller is sort of using their cold psychic skill, like their latent or inherent psychic ability to just cold read people. Where a diviner is a vessel. A diviner um is and that being a vessel requires certain sacrifices and certain practices of lifestyle in order to, as you're naming, be a channel. And so with clients, I'm like, this I'll tell you what I think, and then I'll tell you what Spirit thinks or what the cards are saying, right? And I make that I'm able to like trace the distinction and um note where there's difference or contradiction or surprise. Um I pulled a card to answer this question and thinking about it, and so I will say, because I love to I love the tarot to teach about the tarot itself. I will say I'll say one divination um is a dialogue with the divine and the dead. Right? And there's and then like the how to typically involves some some medium or some technology in order to relay like into the language. Like when we're communicating here, we're using English. You know what I mean? Like we are using there's certain interpretive then systems that like there's a syntax, there's a grammar, there's signs, there's symbols, this may be coins, this may be bones, this may be cards, this may be time, this may be clouds, dreams, um, and on. But I pulled the Knight of Cups. And so divination is um a practice of love. Divination is a form of erotic knowledge, it's an ethics of attention in which we arm ourselves with uh, you know, of uh a sort of militant love, meaning that this is not a a love that is this, you know, like rolling over kind of notion of like being soft and and sweet. This is a love that is willing to deal with the forces of oppression that are um seeking to isolate us and leave us stranded and in a drought. And so I think that divination brings the waters of love so that we can swim um amidst so many rivers and tributaries and be led to oceans of mystery and thresholds of encounter with the beloved, with the other, with spirit, with ancestors, and on. And so I'll say that.

GDC 18:36

Oh my goodness, the Knight of Cups. Come on now. Come on now, that's all I'm saying. So, Jin Sankey, what is your view and thoughts on divination and how does it work?

Jen S 18:52

So I kind of agree with everyone else, and it might be a little bit repetitive because I feel like we're all kind of on the same page with that. Um, but a lot of people, when they ask me, like, what is divination? I always, and I'm also a Reiki master as well. So I always explain this for Reiki, um, is basically they are the lamp and I am plugging them into their energy. So as I'm using my, you know, divination tools, whatever that may be, um, I'm really just tapping into your energy, into your higher self, um, to really tell you what you already know, but in a different way, in a way that you'll understand better. And sometimes people do need like a physical thing to look at. So whether it be bones, whether it be tarot, whether it be, you know, whatever that runes, sometimes they need to look at this physical thing to see exactly what they already know innately. And I'm here just to foster that connection. I'm here to help you understand yourself and also to help you define what you want and don't want, and really tapping into that as well. Um, and and you know, a lot of times we think we want something, but it's not really what we want. And I know all of us are readers, you know, how many times do you, you know, have somebody come for a reading and that first question is never the question that they want to know about? Like that is a like I always so I always even allot time for that because I'm like, okay, well, what's the starter question? Okay, well, now what, you know, because usually it's like 10 minutes in, then we really get to it. So for me, that divination is just really tapping in, like everybody else said, into those other resources, into somebody else's energy to really help bring answers, bring clarity, um, and you know, figure out exactly what it is that they really want.

GDC 20:59

You guys see, this is so rich. And I love that we are each throwing down the way that we are throwing down, because yes, inevitably, you know, Jen Sankey's right. We're all kind of coming from the same um pus perspective, but yet the way that we're explaining it might resonate with one person differently than another. And so Jen, Jenny Bell, Jenny C. Bell is in the house. What is our next question or topic or thought?

Jenny 21:28

I

Rituals And Real World Reading Practices

Jenny 21:29

know we have Jenny and Jen, right? Certain generation, everybody's Jennifer, Jenny, or Jen. Um, and we sound similar too, I think. So I think if you're listening, you'll be like, which Jen is that? I don't know. It doesn't matter. I agree with her, so it's fine. Um, so we've established the like what is divination, how we think it works. I have our coven, and I asked our coven ahead of time, give me some questions. Like, I'm sitting with some real experts on divination. What do you want to know? And the thing that they were really interested in. Is like the whole ritual. Like, how do we divine? Right? They want to know like, do you have a special practice before? Do you have to have a special setup? Do you light a candle? There's like so much misinformation in movies, right? When I think of divination, I think of a movie, I think of a crystal ball and like this whole like setup for what that's like. And that's often not the reality. So I'm interested in like your how. Like, how do you read for yourself versus read for someone else? Do you have a special kind of ritual? Uh, do you pull cards every day? Do you divine every day? How often? Feel free, you don't have to answer all of those, but I'm kind of just curious about like your own actual practice.

GDC 22:43

I love this. You know, I'm gonna kick it off with for me, there is a difference when I am reading for somebody else versus getting messages and communing with the spirits that I commune with personally. One thing that I do want to say is that when I am reading for another, I have found and I've I've been around a lot of readers. We're here in a group of readers, and there are different techniques. For me, I read the divine as it reveals itself to them. Meaning I read if they are into angels, all of a sudden angels will appear and I set that up. Um, I don't refer to my guides and my team unless I ask them. And I know that that sounds funny, but that's just kind of how I do it. However, others will have their own team and they read, or they'll connect with, like Jinsenki said, you know, connect with their higher self. So there's different approaches, and I just wanted to say that. So this is how I do it when I set sacred, I set sacred space, and I'm just gonna go there. This is what I say. I say, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome into this space, welcome into this time. I'm gonna draw a circle around this space, around this time, declaring it as sacred space and a sacred time. I'm gonna set my ego to the outside of the circle so I can be a clear conduit for you and the divine as it reveals itself to you to provide you with the most benefit beneficial information or whatever it is, it's gonna be the most beneficial to you today. That's what I do. I've done it forever. If you want to stop, replay, write it down, fine if it makes sense to you. Because for me, then in that moment, now I have an agreement with spirit that when I do that, I am in this moment, right? And in this moment, we have agreements, and the agreements are for me whatever I think, whatever I smell, whatever pops into my mind, whatever I focus on, is a message. Whatever they say is for a reason. They're gonna give me a pattern to do that, and then I have my magical box here, and just in Granddaughter Crow style, of course, you've got a snake, and of course, you have animals. And if you want to know more about, and this is the spirit of the wheel deck, and just like I'm gonna take a note off of what Christopher did. Oh you guys, look at we've got the harvest moon. In this one, you have whatever you have been planting even for the last two years. It's now time to have harvest. And so think about what you've been planting. You have a bear, inner knowledge, you have an eagle, the vision, you have uh a wolf, the one, the teacher, and the one that takes the road, um, less traveled. And then over here, you have that stag, which is that beautiful empowerment energy. It talks about turning points, preparation, and gathering. And then when I divine for myself, it's just having I don't even know how to explain it. It's just I feel it in my body, I see it in the natural world, um, I get the clairs and all of that. And then when I really need to know what it is, I text Jenny C. Bell, and I'm like, WTF is going on, Jenny, you know. So sometimes us as individual readers, we can get in our own way. And so, just at least for me, and so I wanted to kind of throw that down. Even for a seasoned reader, there's no shame. In fact, there's a lot of honor in going to another reader that you trust and getting a read. So, Jenny, what do you think?

Jenny 26:47

I just want to quickly touch on um ritual. So I will answer the part about ritual. I do have a daily ritual practice. It is after I do open sacred space, say prayers, all the things, meditate. I have like a whole I'm a Taurus. So it's like a very detailed ritual. Um, and I that's also so I'm a homebody, I'm a Taurus cancer. So try again out of the house. Never. Okay, so anyway, um, I have my ritual. My current ritual is I ask for an energy that is leaving and I pull a tarot, and an energy that is coming in and I pull a tarot, and then anything else I need to know, and I do an oracle. After that, I do a meditation, which is usually journeying. It always ties together, and then I journal about it. So that's kind of my daily divination practice for myself.

GDC 27:38

I love that, and I love that it's a system, you know. I think that a lot of times with repetition, the connection and relationship between you and the divine strengthens. So, Deborah Blake, how would what part of that question would you like to address?

Deborah 27:59

Well, the first part is I'll say so that people know that this is not abnormal and it's fine. I cannot read for myself for crap. Um, if if I have to have an I mean, I can do like a one card poll, that's fine. Or, you know, the oracle is a little bit easier. But if I am in crisis and I really need an answer, I have to call one of my friends because what happens with me is if I'm feeling positive about things, oh, the cards are beautiful, wonderful. And if I'm feeling negative about things, it's like the tower and the devil and death. And so yeah, I gave up a long time ago trying to read for myself, and I just read for everybody else. And a lot of the people that I know are like that. So if that's you, that's not unusual. It doesn't mean you failed in any way. A lot of us, it doesn't matter how in tune you are with the universe, we are too close to our own crap, you know. So there you go. Now, if I'm gonna read for somebody else, I don't have complicated rituals, I don't, I don't say any beautiful like prayers like Granddaughter Crow, but I do have some sort of techniques that I use, which is that I start out by just talking to somebody, you know, whoever it is who you know is coming to me. At this point in time, it's usually online, but of course it used to mostly be in person. And what I was taught is that you had other people, you know, you had whoever wanted the reading shuffle the cards. I found in reality that tarot cards are big and awkward, and most people are not comfortable shuffling them. And of course, if you're online, they really can't shuffle them. If they can, they don't need you. Um, so what I do is I start talking to people and I ask them, well, you know, what is it that brought you here? What do you have a particular question you want answered? And as I'm talking to them, I shuffle the cards and I shuffle the cards so that the energy from the person who's asking the question, which the technical term is querent, in case you are dying to know, um, but if the person who is asking the question has something in particular in mind, that will get it into the cards. And sometimes people don't. Sometimes people just say, tell me what I need to know. And that gets into the cards too. So depending on how critical it is, sometimes we do that for five minutes. I did one the other day, it was supposed to be a 45-minute reading. It took almost two hours because there was like 45 minutes of just talking and shuffling the cards. And then what I do, and again, there's no right or wrong way to do this, I put the cards into three piles, or if the person is with me in person, I have them put their hands on the deck and try and put their energy into the deck, and then they divide the deck into three piles, and then I have them pick whichever pile they want to go on top, and that's where I start. And the thing that amazes me is it's never the wrong pile. It does not matter which whether they pick pile A, B, or C, you get the cards you're supposed to get. So that's sort of my very small ritual. I don't do really anything to prepare other than to you know turn off the phone, turn off, you know, try and put myself in a calm head space. It doesn't mean that there isn't a cat trying to walk across the keyboard. That happens a lot. I have five cats. There are many, many instances of cats trying to walk across the keyboard. Luckily, most of the people I do readings for like cats. So, and I also pulled a card because I was inspired by you guys. So, what I pulled was the Six of Cups, which I think is really great for this because it's all about giving and receiving. And what is reading for somebody else except giving and receiving? Uh you know, yes, we're in theory, you know, most of the time given some money, but we get things from doing this that are beyond that. I don't think anybody who does professional readings would just do it for the money, because the amount of time and energy that you put into it, the amount of spirit you put into it, whatever it is you're charging, it's not enough. But because we are giving and receiving, this is we are given this gift, we are given this ability to do this for people who cannot do it for themselves. And so that for me is the six of cups. We we do it because we can and because it helps us to give back to each other and to community.

GDC 33:30

I agree 100%, and I love that you said that because you know I limit myself on how much I will read and you and then you have to figure out how to bring yourself back in your body, at least I do. Um, so Christopher Marmalejo, how would you like to address the question from our Coven community?

Christopher 33:56

Yes, I love I love uh beginners. I mean, we're all teachers, so I'm you know, I'm always here for like any any level of experience. Um similar to Jenny, I'm a I have a for my own ritual, a Taurus rising, and so I'm very set on my practice. I um kind of wake up, clean my room, meditate, um, and then you know, have like an hour to an hour and a half morning divination for myself each day. And it's always manifold. Like for me, the reading is itself an alchemical event, um, as you're as you're kind of naming Deborah. I mean, sometimes that like the cards do mirror my emotional state, but they help me sit with it and move through it, and like even within the span and I've gotten better at this where within the span of the morning reading the cards show the truth, like shift with the energy into my internal emotional, psychic energy shifting, but they're also pointing me to what will happen in the day or a conversation I might have or something I may read or watch, and then at the same time I'm thinking of them, I'm just always thinking of the cards and like divination and theorizing with the cards, and so like making connections. Um so it is fundamental. I do think that like uh I for me in terms of like this this sense of accuracy, it's like divin are it's an instrument. Like my like a singing voice. I relate divination in terms of like sometimes I'm gonna be able to hit the note and have access to my full range, and other days I may be I may have a sore throat, or I may be clogged up, or I may have like some things I need to clear in my throat. It's it's a bodily practice. This is a somatic body-based practice, and so we can't expect our bodies to show up in like a automatic mach like machine mode of like always being at the same level of execution every day rather than in relationship and in a tending, caring, reciprocal relationship. Like, and so um I light candle, I have this particular altar where I read my cards, I refresh libations daily, um, I offer incense, I try and have the various elements represented and conjured. Incense is really big for me because that you know, that sends the pray that's like to me the sending up the spiritual Wi-Fi, if you will, tapping in, turn turning on. With a client, I um light a candle, offer up incense, and I do similar like prayers and grounding exercises, a bit of like a quick guided meditation for the clients, just drop them in and transition them into the space, dialogue with them. I have an intake form typically um if it's online, as like most of my readings are online, and so I'm getting a sense of where they're coming from, but things also shift between booking and like the actual reading. Um, and so there's a lot of dialogue, and so often which is also maybe unexpected, is like for for beginners is that I ask the client a lot of questions as well. You know, I try and get as much context um as possible beforehand to just get deeper and like get into the heart of the things. And I've had people try and like test me or what have you, or you get what I mean? Like give you nothing and like all of that. And we can do that, it's like sure, but I am like this is your time that you're paying for, so might as well get as like go as deep as we can, and like what is the utility of that? Other like, you know what I mean? I'm beyond this point of needing to like prove myself. Um, and so the spread is organically developed in consent with the client, where we I hear what's going on. Sometimes they have specific questions that they're arriving, often it's general areas of inquiry or tension or things that just need like you know, addressing. Um, and so for me the particular language in a spread or in a question is very important, and so I'm always co-crafting that with the client and and like getting their consent before like I lay down a set of cards in in relation to that language. Um and I close the reading and I find like I need to eat before reading, like I need to be like very grounded because I can also feel when I'm like really tapped in, as well as very heady psychic opening, you know. Um so I'd recommend that and likewise needs like ground afterwards and like lay down or just like you know, not not be honest. There's also a thing of being like psychic and then being also med meditate mediating that versus via the screen, like via Zoom or technology. That's like a it can be it's just be like just calm, like ground your system. Um so yes, I would recommend that. I always cleanse my decks regularly as well and and do that, yeah. And I and I will say, oh, sorry, and another another aspect of the ritual is that I um take cards that pop pretty much, like that's how my cards come to me. Like they always pop out, and I have the client select, I present in a like a number of decks, and then in the meditation they choose the deck that they will work with. But I handle the deck um because I've also found that like some people you know, I just this is also a a craft. I'm just used to Zoom reading, so I also like to handle the deck. Of course, they can see the cards, but um I'm like I'll handle I'll handle the cards.

GDC 39:40

I love that. Thank you so much. And I think that another point, side note, as if you are doing a reading for somebody else, feel free to ask questions. What I like to say is, and I say this to the quarrent, I say the more specific the question, the more specific the answer. What do you want to know? And so I absolutely love that. And I think also another just tag on before I we go to listen to what Gin Sankey has to say is I love thinking about it that you are an instrument. And so when you are considering, do you play music around? Is it light? Is it dark? Is there a certain time? Get to know your instrument and take care of it, keep it in tune, keep it polished, and take care of your instrument. With that being said, Gin Sankey is in the house.

Jen S 40:37

All right. So I think, you know, uh out of the gate, since we're kind of sharing our astrological science, I'm a lot of fire. So things I do are quick, they're easy, and I also have four kids. So I I am like the super practical. If I have time to do a big ritual, um, like a daily thing, I will. But I also um practice more at night. Um, I'm a devotee of Hekate. So I'm more of a night person. Um, so um the mornings for me um is really trying to get myself together as best I can because it got a little spicy in there too. So, you know, it's all about focus. Um, and you know, when I I always pull a card right out of the gate. Um, I really don't want to overthink it. I don't really want to go into anything big. I just want to see what's going on right now. So I will pull a card based on that. I will, you know, usually if I don't have a notebook, I'm writing it on a post-it note and I'm putting it in my journal later. Um, I like to really keep things moving. Um and I, you know, at nighttime for me is when in the dark, in the, you know, that's when I can focus better. I'm a night person all night long. I'm a night person. So that is my time. And and I think that's something that's important to to note that the morning may not be the best time for you. Sometimes it's at night, sometimes it's smack at the middle of the of the day, and try them all and see which one works for you. Um, and it could change, you know. I mean, I, you know, I may be easing, maybe if I ease off my devotions to Hecate and I'm doing, you know, focusing on somebody else, maybe that will change it to the morning. And just knowing that your practice will ebb and flow, your divination will ebb and flow. I mean, there might be times like you might go a week or two and you don't want anything with pulling a card in the day. You're just like, you know what, I'm I'm just not gonna do that. That's okay too. Um, don't feel that you have to do something every single day. You can, absolutely. But if you don't, it's okay and don't beat yourself up over it. And I have already, I said this um when I was speaking with granddaughter Crow and Jenny a couple of weeks ago. Um, my favorite phrase is done is better than perfect. And, you know, and and that I think it just goes along across the board when you're doing any divination, creating a ritual practice, creating your own daily practice. Um, so with that being said, when I read for um clearance, I usually will, you know, kind of do what Deborah does. Um I usually am shuffling and just talking, that warming up phase, um, kind of tapping into energy. I ask permission to tap into their energy, have them take a couple of grounding breaths. Um, and and I really, you know, I'll kind of ask them, tell me when you're ready. And I'll just keep shuffling until that point happens. Um, because it's kind of giving them that agency, like, yes, I'm ready. And I, and for me, in my experience, I feel that it opens them up faster. Um, instead, you know, and and it also kind of gives. Me that clue, like what Christa was saying, like if you have a tester, because every once in a while you get them, and then you just, you know, and I think it for us as the reader, then you kind of know what's up, right? You're like, okay, you know, again, I'm I'm fast moving and all that. And I'm like, okay, I I gotta know where I'm at with this person. All right, so this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna waste a half hour being tested until I hit something and they're like, oh my gosh. And then we can have a reading. Um, and you know, and then you just charge them double after. No, I'm kidding. I'm joking, I'm joking. But you know, it's these things that happen. And I think as you are also learning to read for other people, again, try all of the things. All of everybody here gave wonderful suggestions. Write it down, try it out when you're when you're practice reading with other people. Try out this, you know, try out Christopher's way, try out Jenny's way, see what, see what works. Um, because what works for me is not always gonna work for you. And that doesn't make it wrong, that doesn't make it bad. It just is. And that's something I think we need to um kind of accept about ourselves, ourselves as readers, as divinators, and even as psychics. Um, you know, we aren't always gonna be right. Uh sometimes, you know, there we're we think we're tapping in and you know, we think we're we got it all right, and the person's like, I don't know what you're talking about. But it's also that they may not be ready to receive those answers. And my answer is always, all right, you know what, right now it's not resonating, but you know what? Sit on it. Just or forget about it. Because you know what, most times it rounds and you'll get that email or that text, oh my God, this happened and da da da. So don't doubt yourself, you know, just just go with it, put it out there and and and let it do what it's gonna do because at that it's not in our hands. You know, again, as we talked about earlier, we are the vessel, and so we can't hold on to those things and we can't try to take credit for them, we can't try to hold on to them or let ego drop in and be like, I'm a I'm a 10 out of 10 psychic, my ratings are 95% spot on. And you know, some people need that number, they need that, but I feel like that tying yourself to that also will dampen your practice as well. So that's what I gotta say about that.

How To Support The Podcast

GDC 46:27

I absolutely love that. If you are enjoying the show, you can support it by liking, subscribing, and sharing. Also, connect with us, leave a comment, text the show option wherever you listen to podcasts, leave a review, or email us at beliefbeingbeyond at gmail.com. Also, I'm on Patreon where a small donation goes a long way. Find this and more episodes at Granddaughter Crow.com. Thank you. Now back to the show. I love that. I love that. Deborah Blake, what do you think about that?

When Cards Confuse You Mid Read

Deborah 47:08

Well, I absolutely agree with all of that. The one thing that it occurred to me to add is this is something that happens to me sometimes. And if you are newer to readings, this can throw you off. Heck, it throws me off, and I'm not new to anything. Um, but sometimes when you're doing a reading, say you're doing the Celtic Cross, which is a 10-card spread, you may start with the first few cards, and you'll hit a card that doesn't make any sense to you, that you can't figure out what it's trying to say. This still happens to me. And sometimes you just have to say, honestly, to the person, I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what this is trying to tell me right now. Let's keep going. And almost always, once I've done more cards in the reading, that earlier card, I'm like, oh, that refers back to this, and this makes sense with that. Um, and it's also okay to ask the person you're doing the reading for, does this make sense for you? Does this resonate with you? Sometimes they say no, and that's all right. And then you say, okay, well, maybe I'm not looking at it the right way. And the more I've done this, the more times I've had something where I've I pick up a card and I'm like, well, this card usually means something. And then as I get further in the reading, I'm like, oh no, it's not saying that at all. It's some other thing. But it is okay to not know right away. And and sometimes it will take you the whole reading before you go, oh, okay, this thing in the beginning now makes sense to me. So that's all I wanted to add.

GDC 49:01

I 100% agree with with everything that's being said. You know, it's I think a lot of it is building a relationship with and agreements with the divine and what how it reveals itself to you in your reads. So, Jenny, we are getting close, but I think we can do one more round. Um, what question and or should we ask for a tip or trick or a question with a tip or trick? What do you want to do?

What We Want You To Know

Jenny 49:34

Yeah, I just wanted to open it up to what is something you just want other people to know or understand about divination? Um, it's very abstract for a lot of people. Um, and I just want to kind of see what like your answer is for that. Could be a tip or a trick, could be anything, but what do you want others to know about divination as like a final thought?

GDC 49:55

I'm gonna go ahead. Little D wants to say something. What little D? Cats are very, very magical. Um, for me, I think that, hmm, she always throws me off. I'm like, what little D? I start doing this. What I think is the best thing that I could say to anybody at this point about divination, even before you get into it and figure out your relationship, how you want to set up your space and how you want to do you and work with your instrument. What I would say is that the left hemisphere of the thinking brain is the logical mind, language, linear thinking, and the right hemisphere is that dream, intuition, creativity. And where people get kind of mixed up is trying to interpret the right hemisphere into words. And I think that if we relax and just go, I'm trying to find the words, I am getting an impression. Give me a minute to find the words, or even with yourself. Like, I get an impression, and I'm my left hemisphere wants to create a quick story around it so that I understand and I can move on in this day and day. And sometimes it just takes a minute, so allow it to take time. I think the biggest block towards uh people not being able to divinate is self-doubt, and that they were trained that if it doesn't make left limit lim left hemisphere-centric sense, then it is not accurate. So, what do you think, Jenny?

Jenny 51:34

I just want to remind everybody to have fun. Like, take yourself back to that slumber party where you busted out the Ouija board and you weren't supposed to, and maybe you were drinking, who knows? Um, and you, or when you made your little paper, like, are you gonna live or die? Or have you played MASH and like are you living in a shack with someone? Like, go back to that time and it's fun. I'm always like, witchcraft is fun, divination is fun, make it playful. I got into recently reading charms because I'm a magpie, and it's fun for me to go thrifting and have a reason. Oh, I need this because it's for my practice. Okay, so please, I encourage you, like, we're kind of serious, very intellectual on this show, but it's fun, and that's what draws most people to it. And speaking of fun, just in case nobody noticed, I am channeling Queen of Wands today in my outfit. I just had to point that out. And yeah, have fun, everybody.

GDC 52:30

Hail to the Queen of Wands, hail to the magpie, always have fun and give yourself excuses to secondhand trinket style. So, Deborah Blake, what would you like to add?

Deborah 52:44

Well, we've talked a lot about tarot, which is a wonderful tool, but it does. Some people do better with oracle cards, some people do better with runestones. Runestones can be really simple and easy to use. Some people do better with pendulums, which are basically yes or no answers for the most part, if you've got a really simple question. But if the tarot doesn't speak to you, first of all, you may have the wrong deck. A lot of people have an issue with the ride or wait deck because it's got a lot of very old images which don't necessarily resonate with the modern person. But as we have seen, there are a lot of decks out there. Jen's deck is gorgeous. I might happen to own that one and have gifted it. Um, and my deck's kind of nice too. But so if the tarot isn't working for you, you can try different decks, but you can also say, okay, it's too complicated. I don't want to do this. Oracle cards are tend to be simpler and much more straightforward. If that suits you better, then feel free to use that. Use runestones. If you are somebody who gets answers from like nowhere, sometimes scrying works. I can't scry to save myself. If you pointed a gun at my head, I would still go, yeah, it's a black mirror. I see nothing. Um, but be open-minded, experiment with things, and don't get discouraged if the first thing you try doesn't work for you. Like everything else in witchcraft, practice helps. It's you know, and as Jenny said, play with it. Don't don't worry about getting it right. Don't worry about, you know, I didn't do it right the first time. Just have a good time. And eventually you will find the thing that works for you. Or you can call me.

GDC 55:03

Right. I absolutely love it, you guys. This is such, like I said before, it's delicious. It's delicious. So, Christopher Marmalejo, what would you like to add?

Christopher 55:16

Oh my goodness, so much. Um I know what a big question. What a big question. I think I'm always just trying to try to relay this. Um Oh my goodness. So for folks to come to their divination tool, also aware of their position and where they're coming from and and um what like the divination is less about fixed outcomes and accurate predictions than developing a forked tongue, then able to hold paradox, then able to hold um uncertainty. I think of reading, of course, I mean, based on my book, like reading and writing go hand in hand. There is a there is a literacy, and so in thinking about being an evocative writer or coming to voice, um, for me the divination is always about coming to voice. It's less about this card means this because this little white book says it means this, and I have to cram that in to the reading rather than is we're all naming like letting images come through, sensations come through. I'm very uh the method of analogy. I'm always citing a movie or a text or a film or a song or something. Like I like for me, that's an easier, like the radio station kind of like let me communicate through through this is easier. And so um I think reading also divination is a citational practice, and it is uh there's crossroads in determining like who your teachers are, who your readers are, and where their lineages stem from, and at the same time developing your own practices um as it originates within your own specific cultural location. And so again, I think like the point of divination is to help you uh do fake work, which is to actively shape um the future against the fixed, you know, dead outcomes of capitalism and and white supremacy and on, and to empower your voice to to speak in paradox and handle uncertainty. So I'll say that.

GDC 57:32

See, oh my goodness, this is such a beautiful round table. I love it. So, Jen Sankey, how would you respond?

Jen S 57:44

So I think, you know, first off, like Jenny was saying, is to have fun with it. Um, and try all the things like Demora said, do try this, try that. And and uh, you know, you you never know what is going to work. You may think you're gonna pick up charms and be like, I what I don't know what I'm gonna do with this, but I love charms because I love trinkets as well, Jenny. Um, but you may pick it up and you boom boom boom boom getting all these intuitive hits. You wouldn't know unless you picked them up. So again, it's it's trying all of the things, seeing what works, seeing what doesn't. Um, I think that you know, it it's great, you know, to harness that childlike wonder because when we were kids, everything was magic. We didn't question that. And I feel like sometimes when people are going into any form of divination, they overthink it. And by overthinking it, we're squashing that intuition. So I think, you know, as you're moving along, as you get more experience, yeah, you can dive into the history, you can dive into this, you can dive into that. You have time, and I think that's a really big thing, too. Everybody wants to learn this divination and they want to learn it in 30 seconds flat. We're a social media society, everything's quick, quick, quick, you know, a 30-second reel and we're supposed to know everything. And I think it's taking that step back and realizing, you know what, it takes time to learn a craft. It takes time to, you know, create new neural pathways and hone in on our intuition and create these, this new part of ourselves we may not even have tapped into forever. So I think that just keeping it simple, keeping it about you, keeping about what how it resonates with you, where you feel it in your body, like Christopher even talked about before that embodying your practice. You, you know, you know, say you pull you want to try bones and you pull this raccoon, you know, vertebrae, and you're like, and and for some reason, you know, you're feeling it in your chest. You're just like, oh wow, okay, I'm feeling this. So what does that mean to you? What do you, you know, write that down because it may be part of the meaning of that particular bone for you. So, you know, depend and that can go, like I said, with any divination. So I think it's it's it's bringing it back to your base and and deciding how things feel for you, taking your time with it, have fun with it, and then before you know it, you're you're reading Seven Ways to Sunday.

Final Wrap And Where To Find Us

GDC 1:00:30

I absolutely love it. So, Jenny, did you want to wrap anything up before I say uh goodbye to everyone?

Jenny 1:00:40

I just want to thank everybody and I want to reiterate what Deborah said. Uh, there's this very famous like Sylvia Brown quote. And if you grew up watching Montel, hey friends, I was a big fan of hers. Um it was like my favorite psychic medium on TV. And she says that the gift is not for you. Like if you're the psychic, the gift is not for you. So she could not read for herself. If you're familiar with Tyler Henry, he cannot read. He was trying to like help his mom with her genealogy, he cannot read for her because it's close in the family. So if you are like, I can't read for myself, grab a friend, willing or unwilling, and read for them. Because that'll be the real test. If the friend's like, wait a minute, yeah, this is resonating, then you actually can do it. You just can't do it for yourself, and that's okay.

GDC 1:01:25

I love it. I love it. I love it. You know what? Thank you, each of you, for showing up and sharing different aspects to this beautiful wander called divination. I mean, honestly, this is not full and complete. This is basically just little orders. In the show notes, you will be able to find out how to get in touch with Granddaughter Crow, Jenny C. Bell, Deborah Blake, Christopher Marmalejo, and Jen Sankey. So if one of us even feel liberated, try out each of us. If it's something that you want to do, ask us questions, etc., but more in the show notes. But the biggest thing is that I think is saying spirit will reveal itself to you. You just gotta learn the lesson. And the best way to do that is play. When you run into something, ask more questions. And anyway, thank you for joining us on the Round Table Dialogue. We love you guys, and we'll see you on the flippity flip.

Subscribe Review And Closing

GDC 1:02:34

Thank you for listening to another episode of Belief Being and Beyond. Please subscribe and share with whomever would enjoy this podcast. And please leave us a review. We really, really appreciate that. For more about Granddaughter Crow, Granddaughter Crow.com. There you can learn about her classes, sessions, and all of her books. And for more about Jenny C. Bell, please visit Jenny CBell.com where you can learn about her books, her classes, and her our coven community. Thank you so much for listening.