Judika Illes - Mic Drop! All Things Witchy, Oracle Decks, Encyclopedias, and MORE!

Spellwork does not belong to an elite club. When Judika Illes sits down with us, we get a clear, grounded reminder that if you are a human with desires or fears, you already have the raw material for magic. We talk about why her work, from Encyclopedia of 5,000 Spells to her Oracle decks, lands with so many people: it makes witchcraft accessible, digestible, and practical without losing its depth.

We also trace Judika’s long relationship with tarot, starting with discovering the B.O.T.A. deck as a child and learning by building a personal bond with the cards. From there, we nerd out on research as sacred archaeology, what it takes to write deeply researched metaphysical reference books, and the real publishing process that most readers never see. If you love folk magic, this conversation is a feast: home ingredients, creative problem solving, and spells designed for people who need help now, not seven days from now with expensive tools.

Then we step into saints and Catholic folk magic, including why so many witches petition Saint Anthony of Padua for finding what is lost, Saint Expedite for fast results, and Archangel Michael for daily protection. We wrap with a big question about what lies beyond and a surprisingly comforting image of many possible afterlives, with room to move toward love and belonging.

If this sparks something in you, subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave us a review so more seekers can find Belief Being and Beyond.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

GDC 0:01

Welcome to Belief Being and Beyond with your host, Granddaughter Crow. Hi everybody, Granddaughter Crow here with yet another episode of Belief Being and Beyond. And whoa, we have got, I mean, we always bring you guys such special people, but this one is very, very close to my heart. I have been wanting to meet this person for so very long, ever since I picked up their book, God, 15, 20 years ago. Let me tell you who we have tonight. You guys, we have Judika Illis in the house. Judika Illis is the best-selling author of numerous books devoted to spells, spirits, and witchcraft, including Encyclopedia of 5,000 spells and encyclopedia of spirits, as well as pure magic, daily magic, encyclopedia of witchcraft, encyclopedia of mystics, saints and sages and witches. Oh my goodness. Well, there's my workout for today, you guys. Also a lifelong student, which Jenny and I love to have on this show because we too are lifelong students, lover and practitioner of magical arts. Judika is also the creator of two Oracle decks: magic spells, oracle, and protection spells, which I know Jenny has a copy of and she can hold up in a second, as well as a forthcoming prosperity spells deck. We're gonna go here. There's so much more. She has been a professional tarot card reader for over three decades and is certified aromatherapist, a native New Yorker. Judika teaches in the United States and internationally live virtually and comes on podcasts. So anyway, without further ado, Judika Ellis, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you.

Judika 2:18

I think that's the nicest introduction anyone has ever given me.

GDC 2:22

You know, I gotta tell you, I have been on the witch scene for a little while now, um, reading from shop to shop. And I was on this at this little cute little witchy shop here in Denver, Colorado, and I just kept eyeballing this. This is about 15, 20 years ago, guys, and I was like, I can't leave home without this. And then all of a sudden, Genny C. Bell is like, oh, you know, Judika has a deck out, and that it has crows on it. And I'm just like, if you would have told me 20 years ago, 15, 20 years ago, that I would have a podcast and have you on the show, I wouldn't have believed it. But here we are, my wonderful, wonderful wedge friend.

Judika 3:13

You know, I I don't think I would have believed it either. Uh I mean when I wrote that book, I as I was saying, I didn't you know, folk magic was not as popular as it is now. True. And or not as respected, all of the above. I didn't think anybody was gonna read that book. I thought I was gonna have to go back to selling makeup in the mall. And um if you had told me that it's this many years later and I would be on this podcast and that I would be doing decks, I I I wouldn't have believed it.

GDC 3:53

Yeah, I know. You know, people, this is how it works. This is how it works. This is what magic looks like when it works. You know, I um speaking of spells and magic, uh, in my little coven, which we call a kindred, because we're more Norse on the Norse path, uh personally doing devotions there. I always say we don't practice magic, we throw that shit

Why Spell Decks Feel So Usable

GDC 4:20

down. And this is yet another episode of throwing that shit down. I absolutely love it. Jenny, did you want to show you have also her protection?

Jenny 4:34

Yeah. So first of all, thanks for being on here. Um we didn't mention this, but you're also an editor. Um several of my friends who've had the opportunity to work with you speak so glowingly of you, our author friends. So shout out to them. Um so yeah, I also have protection spells, which I love uh for if you're watching, you can see, but there's these beautiful snake backing. Um and how I've been using them is I when I read for Arkovan, um, I've used them a few times, they're actually very popular in there. I'll just pull one with like the whole reading, and then I'll read the whole spell on there. So what's cool about these, and then also Magic Spells Oracle, which Granddaughter Crow already showed, that I love as someone who works with new witches is how digestible this is. You know, a big book like Granddaughter Gro Crow has is a little intimidating for some people. Some people look at that as like, heck yeah, this is my reference book for the rest of my life. I'm excited. Other people look at that and are like, I don't know. Yeah, this is so digestible. And like with each thing, you get like an entire spell on each one of these tiny little cards for the protection spells. It takes the the scariness, the guesswork, the overwhelm out of witchcraft. And I love that. So I'm curious, like, what made you kind of go in the direction of these spell decks?

Judika 6:04

Well, I wanted it to be exactly as you described. I wanted it to be accessible and digestible. I mean, I think to some extent that's my gift. Even if you start to read 5,000 spells, and I know it's it's a big book with a lot of pages, and it's it's a lot of books. But I but I I wrote it to be accessible. I I think my gift is to take esoteric and complicated topics and make them accessible to, you know, uh anybody can do a spell. Anybody can do a spelling. All you have to do is be a human being with desires or fears, and you can cast a spell. It's not something that is super elite, or you have to have an incredibly high IQ, or you have to have a degree, or you know, this is something that is our human heritage, and we can all do it. And I really believe that. And unfortunately, I have um been financially challenged for a lot of my life, and so I wanted like with one of the things that I liked with prosperity spells was how reasonably it was priced, because tarot cards, cards in general are not reasonably priced anymore. When I was a kid, you could buy a deck for ten dollars easily, and now everything is like forty, fifty dollars. So even 5,000 spells, there's a lot of book for that money. You know, you it it is the equivalent of several books. So even though it is not as reasonable as prosperity spells. That was very important to me. Um and I love cards. You know, I collect postcards too. I love cards. I love that flash card. You know, you can just take them out, and you know, prosperity spells, you can learn prosperity magic from it. You can just do a card a day, and it's it's very bite-sized. Oh, and the crows are important to me too. You know, they're personal to me too. But going back to prosperity spells, you mentioned the snakes. Um, one of the authors I've worked with, Elisa Einhorn, she's been reading the back of the cards. She's been reading the snakes, and I just find that so interesting. Like, you know, are the snakes looking at each other? Which snakes it? It's snakes and moons, and what kind of snakes and what kind of moons. And I think that's so interesting. I I I've been doing it myself now. And they're doing all the things. Yeah.

Jenny 8:37

Yeah, I'm gonna copy that. And next time I do a reading, I'm gonna do that too. And maybe have it'd be fun too to have people pick off of the snake, like which one's calling to you. Right. And then that's the process, that's the protection cell you need at this time. Oh, I'm gonna do that.

Judika 8:52

I love that. I love that. I'm gonna do that.

GDC 8:56

I love it too, because you know, it engages both the left logical language side of us as well as that creative picture right hemisphere. And okay, you heard it here first, guys. This is what we're gonna do. Start the new trend. First, you gotta pick up the protection spells book by Judika, and then read both sides of the card. Pick the one that appeals to you the most, and let's start trending on TikTok. I I love what you're saying because I too am uh a person who does my best to take the most complex esoteric topics and try to distill it where I could tell it to a six-year-old. Right. And and I feel like that to me is the definition of genius. I really, really do. If you understand a topic well enough where you don't have to use the five, 10, $20 words, I don't know, with inflation,

Learning Tarot As A Child

GDC 10:05

God knows how much those words cost, but you know, with this whole idea of being able to do that. But speaking of six-year-olds, I read somewhere that you started reading the tarot from the B O T A deck at about age six.

Judika 10:24

Can you take us back there? Because Yeah, but I wasn't reading for other people. I mean, I wasn't I am um I am I am a second child. I'm a happy accident baby. Um my um cl my only sibling is 12 years older than I am, and all the you know, my cousins, they're all 12 years older or older. So I grew up in a house, I mean, there were no children. I wasn't treated as a child. And I I learned how to read very early. I mean, because I could, but also because my mother, my parents had only come to the US a couple of years before I was born. My mother basically taught herself English by teaching me how to read. So my sister, when I was starting, when I was six and starting first grade, my sister was 18 and starting college, and she went to college in the East Village in New York City, around the corner from I mean, this is a full circle story, around the corner from the old Weiser bookstore, the Samuel Weiser bookstore. And right? Um, and she would bring home stuff, and this is you know this is 1966. Sometimes she brought home record albums. I mean, it was all treasure, you know. Uh I she brought home, you know, Aretha Franklin and the doors and yeah, all sorts of stuff. So I mean I I I had that when it came out, but she brought home astrology books and numerology books and all sorts of esoteric material, and no one ever stopped me from reading anything. You know, no one explained it to me. I I had a house full of adult books, and I am a compulsive reader. And then one day she brought home this B.O.T.A. deck, and I just fell in love with it. And if you're familiar, if anybody's familiar with it, the my sister was an art student. The BOTA deck isn't you're supposed to color it in. It's a black and white deck, you're supposed to color it in. Um, it's got a lot of, it's it's it's similar to the writer Wade Smith. It has a bit more of an Egyptian theme. I I thought it was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen in my life. And I love coloring books. Although I've never I I still I still have that deck and I've never colored that one in because I was so intimidated. I didn't think I would do it right. Um but I I I still have I I just fell in love with it. And I was very much self-taught. And I think it's a good thing. Nobody told me which were the good cards and which were the bad cards. I I make people laugh because I love the swords. But nobody nobody told me that they were bad cards. You know, I just developed my own relationship with them. I just I fell in love with them and I'm still in love with them. I'm surrounded by tarot cards now. I did not start reading books about tarot until I was a teenager. So that was some year, you know, the 70s, some years later. And then in 1988, I lost my last corporate job. And I thought, I know I'll be a tarot reader.

GDC 13:52

There you go.

Judika 13:53

And then I panicked because I thought, I'm self-taught. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong. And so I I took a I went and I took an adult class. Uh it wasn't learning annex, but it was something similar to that. And I wasn't doing it wrong. And I, you know, found a coven. And you know, my life took a uh I started off on that circuitous route. So and here I am.

GDC 14:24

Here you are. I just love this book. I just absolutely love it. I I absolutely love it.

Judika 14:31

You can make you so happy, thank you.

GDC 14:34

Oh man, you make me so happy, thank you. I mean, I just have to pick it up. You wrote it was you know, no one was very insulted.

Judika 14:46

Like I maybe a year or two after I wrote that book, I was at a festival, and somebody, and I was introduced as the author of that book, and someone whose name I will not mention because it's a pretty terrible person in general, but someone said, I didn't think anybody wrote that book. I thought like it was one of those things like Nancy Drew, where you have different writers writing it. And I was so offended because I actually I have a voice. I mean, if you actually read the book, it you could it's the same person writing it. But even now, I mean, I I did not think anybody was gonna read that book or like that book or buy that book. And so even now, this many years later, it's very meaningful for me when you know people tell me that it's meaningful for them. That's that doesn't get you know, that's never that's never gotten old. That's never like changed.

GDC 15:43

I

Writing Encyclopedias And Publishing Reality

GDC 15:44

love that. Well, thank you, because this isn't the only encyclopedia book.

Judika 15:51

You know why? Why? So I wrote that book, and I mean, when I wrote that book, I mean, it's like a it's like we're on a different planet. Like no one was interested in folk magic. And not all of that book is folk magic, but a lot of that it it's it's sort of a panoramic view of a couple thousand years worth of spells from different sources, but a lot of it is folk magic because that's what interests me. But it wasn't popular and it wasn't respected, and I didn't think anyone would read it, and they wouldn't like it if they did, and I was never gonna write another book again. And so, and I was very I I was very naive. I I didn't know. No one, no one taught me. Like I I am an editor, but I try to I try to sort of educate the people I work with as to how publishing works, because I mean nobody told me anything. And when Harper Collins came to me and said, You want to write another encyclopedia? I thought, oh, I better sign a contract fast before they realize the first book isn't gonna sell and I won't have another opportunity. Not realizing that they knew already, and if it really wasn't gonna sell, they wouldn't have offered me another book. I I I didn't know that. So I literally went from 1,000 page book to an Encyclopedia of Witchcraft, which is the second encyclopedia, there are four altogether. Uh it it is uh 800 something pages, but it was originally, they originally wanted me to write one the same size as 5,000 spells, and I did. And then at the very last minute, the book was complete, it was ready to go to the printer. The printer offered the publisher a really good deal if we could get it down three, we could cut 300 pages. And of course the bean counter said yes. So we had really worked so hard. Uh it was a great team there. The production team was just great. And it was the second encyclopedia, so I knew how to do it, so it was less harrowing than the first one. And I mean, to this day, I don't really know what's in that book a hundred percent. I know what I wrote, but I cut some stuff out. The publisher, the team, they cut some stuff out. I they cut things out and I didn't know. And then there was stuff that I cut out, but they liked it, so they put it back. And then the typesetter came in on a weekend because we had worked on this book for a while. We had worked each each section worked on it separately, so they were invested and they were very involved in it. The typesetter came in on a weekend to retypeset sections so that he could put back the parts that he liked. So to this day, I'm not a hundred percent sure. I know exactly I know what I wrote, but I I'm not a hundred percent sure what's in that book. But it's you know, I like that. It's like the mystery of witchcraft.

GDC 18:57

I love that you're sharing with us some of the ins and outs of publishing because the landscape is changing, and we do have a lot of authors or people who are looking to be published, you know, or to create a deck that listen to the show. And and I think kind of showing them a little bit of the behind the scenes that it's okay to be a little freaked out when you're an author, you know. And but I also really love that full circle from your childhood, even wiser. So much magic. Jenny, what what other magical patterns are you seeing or questions that you want to ask Judika?

Research Rabbit Holes And Folk Magic

Jenny 19:40

So many. Um, but I am I as a lifelong learner, as a literature major, I got really excited about like how you write these massive books. And they're so deeply researched. I want to nerd out a moment with you, and I want to know about research because you're doing this pre-everything at your fingertips on your phone. And so I want to hear, if you don't mind, a little bit about the research process and why you were more interested in folk magic, because I am also more interested in folk magic. I'm just curious about that process.

Judika 20:16

Well, I could tell you the research easily. That's probably the easier question. I love researching. I love researching. Writing is work. I I it's Dorothy Parker, I think, who said, I hate writing, but I love having written. And that's it's it's a l it's work. But research, I mean to me that's you go down these rabbit holes and you start digging, and it's it's it's sacred archaeology. And you don't know what you're gonna find. And I I love it. I mean, I research constantly. I have books that haven't uh been published yet. I I've been researching some of these for decades. I until it's done. I mean, I could do I mean, we are gonna do so little some in in the future, there's gonna be some little offshoots from 5,000 spells also. Um something to look forward to in the future. But um but I I I I I I love that. So that that is, you know, I and I think this is characteristic of magical practitioners, which is a general. We have curious minds. We want to know. And I want to know. And so I'm always surprised by people who ask, you know, a lot of questions, because I I just start digging. If you tell me something I don't know, a word I don't know, I I'm gonna look it up as soon as I step away from you. So that that the research is pleasure. I I love that. Why the folk magic? You know, I I I don't why do we love anything? Why do I love one song and not love another song? Some of it is maybe very visceral, and I don't know why. But I think some of it is also a class thing, or maybe an identification thing. What was respected, and I I see a bit of a resurgence, and you know, I mean everything should be respected. We all 5,000 spells is is just to show you how many different types of spells there are. If you can find a dozen spells that suit you, you're lucky. You know, I hope not. Oh yeah, there's a whole whole genre of magic about smallpox. Um, which you know you can relate to other illnesses also. But, you know, I you know, I I hope I hope people don't need these spells. It's good to know they're there, but I I hope that, you know, these are things that luckily we won't actually have to practice. Um that high ritual magic, ceremonial magic, maybe not so much now, but traditionally, that is uh male magic. The people who practiced it uh were often theologians or theology students. It is ex often uses expensive materials. It's very time consuming. There's one spell in 5,000 spells, I think, that takes seven days. Well, a lot of those spells, assume you have a maid. You know, you have somebody to clean up for you and maybe cook for you and do all the stuff for you, and you have the and you don't have children, you don't have a a spouse who's yelling at you because why isn't dinner on the table? Um folk magic is I mean, it's the magic of the folks. It's it's people who need you to they need to cast a spell now, you have a problem now, and you will work with ingredients that you have in your home or that are affordable or that you can create yourself. You know, you can create an oil lamp. It's not that's not a hard thing to do. Candles used to be very expensive, and even now, I mean, if you want a fancy candle, that might not be something everybody can do. But you can take some pyrex, fill it with oil, stick a cotton wick in there, you have got a magic lantern right there. Um, and you know, you can do if you don't have pyrex, you can do it with a with a pumpkin shell. Uh, you know, you you can a coconut shell, you can you can adapt. It's it's it it sort of forces you to be creative and inventive and to look around and see the magic that surrounds you everywhere. And I love that. And my mother, you know, my mother came from a village, and although my mother wasn't a practitioner per se, she was interested. And she, you know, she knew stuff that people did. Like there's a couple spells in 5,000 spells that my mother learned as a child from, you know, she heard adults speaking and you know, things that you just did in the kitchen. Um so I I love that. I I I don't know, you know, I I love pop culture too. You know, I love I love rock and roll. I love, you know, uh I I I am a world, I have been a world traveler, but I I, you know, I've been flying home and really miss having a hamburger, you know. You know, it's a sort of American, real just sort of popular American food. You know, as somebody whose roots are very shallow here, I love that. You know, that that was something that was very appealing to me. So all of that folk magic, folk culture, it's very interesting to me. And a lot of the books that I've worked on as an editor, um Mexican magic and um Italian folk magic, and I mean, these are books that start the work of Starkassis. Um, it's very appealing to me because I love that kind of folk magic.

GDC 26:21

You know what's so beautiful that touches me about that individually. So I am Navajo, half Navajo, half Dutch. And now I am starting to write books about being a shaman, being a medicine person. And Jenny even pointed it out to me. She was like, oh, so now we don't have to depend on the male anthropologists that were watching and telling us it's actually the boots on the ground were here. And I'm I'm hearing those tones from you that it's not about the theology and

Where Spells Come From And Bibliographies

GDC 27:00

with the maid in this big house, it's about what did people do with smallpox? Like, what did people do? Like boots on the ground, it feels like I don't even know, folk.

Judika 27:12

It feels you're giving you the chills. And I mean, more than you know. People ask me questions I am asked all the time. Where do the spells come from? And some of them, yeah, I mean, everyone can create spells of magic spells are created by people and tweaked by many generations after that. So some of them were are very traditional spells, some of them are spells I created, some of them are spells that I have friends who gave them to me, people who gave them to me, but some of them come from books. And what kind of books? Very specific. I mean, everything comes from my filter. You know, even people who gave me spells, I I adjusted them because I didn't want to, you know, I don't want to plagiarize anybody, so you know, if I don't know where it comes from, then I have to put my own spin on it. But they come from there was a whole genre of books, early 20th century, written by missionaries. And the missionaries would go around the world, and often they would have conversations with the shamans. And I tried to insert myself into the conversation because imagine you're a far-seeing shaman and you can see the destruction of your culture, and the only person you have to speak with is this judgmental person who is facilitating the destruction of your culture, but this is it. This is the only person who's going to record this. So I try to I try to be like the translator. I try, uh I'm not saying I did it well, or or not in all cases, certainly. I tried to try to figure out what was this person trying to say versus what this person ended up recording.

GDC 28:58

Yes.

Judika 28:59

I worked with that. There's a big bibliography in 5,000 spells, and I have had people tell me they have bought the book for the bibliography, and I I it is maybe it's worth it. There's a huge bibliography in that book.

GDC 29:14

Um probably 5,000 references.

Judika 29:19

No, I just I did record every book that I used for something, and I mean, in some cases they're cookbooks, in some cases they're travel guides. You know, you you can if you're looking for that magic, you can extract it.

GDC 29:37

Yeah. And I love the way that you said that too, because I definitely understand in my DNA with the trying to translate it not just from one language to another, but one culture to another, and not just one culture to another, but to a dominant thinker, a superior presenting body that, you know, that kind of stuff. And I write. Yeah. And so we've got all these circles, you know, to the I love it. So I think my cat wants to ask another question, and or is turning it over to Jenny to ask another question because little Dee loves Jenny C. Bell.

Jenny 30:26

Yeah, little Dee and I are best friends in our hearts, right, little Dean? Um, yeah, so I I'm curious.

Metaphysical Trends Plus Reading Concerns

Jenny 30:33

You've seen like you've I've been practicing witchcraft also for like about three decades. And so you've been practicing a little longer. And so you've seen the landscape change as we all have. I'm curious as to what you're thinking like the current landscape is and how you kind of perceive the future landscape just in general, like with tr trends you're seeing or themes you're seeing, or how you're feeling, what's on the horizon.

Judika 31:03

I think I was actually talking to someone about this today. Interest in metaphysical topics is kind of tidal. Like it bec it it becomes really popular and even faddish for a couple years. Um and then it kind of recedes. And every time it leaves maybe a few more practitioners, a few more interested people, and then it comes back out again. And I think we are due now for another, you know, high tide. I think with more people, more spiritual uh questers. Uh I it's always interesting where we go. It's always something new. I will be honest, what concerns me is that I've been reading all these statistics about how, at least in the US, less people are reading in general. And that frightens me. You know, we should all be reading, you should be reading everything you can get your hands on. Um, not just not just books that agree with you, not just books that validate what you already think. Sometimes the book that challenges you that you disagree with, it makes you think, um, you know, why? Well, why why does this irritate me so much? Um that that's good because we we want to grow. We want to we want to be challenged and we want to grow and not just, oh yeah, I knew that. That's right, you know, I I don't have to know anything else anymore. But it does, it does sort of scare me that people are reading less, maybe buying less books, maybe going to the library less. We don't have to buy the books. You can get, you know, you can get free books in the library. Um, maybe supporting libraries less. That does concern me.

GDC 32:57

Yeah. It's not good for us. Yeah, I I agree. I was in a conversation with my husband the other day, and you know how everybody loves to blame everything on Mercury retrograde if the double is not available, right? Now my new line is censorship. So I'm walking around and it doesn't matter if he's like, oh, I went to the store and they didn't have orange juice. I'm all censorship, like I'm blaming, but it's it's it's it's an actual joke, but it's it's because of the joke.

Judika 33:34

Although every time I read a book has been banned, I buy it. Um even if I even just to put on the shelf, I I don't like people and I buy a paper copy. I I read both. I read paper copies and I read digitally because my eyes are not what they used to be, and I like to be able to, you know, have a backlit screen in the middle of the night. Right. But um, but I I buy a paper copy because nobody because that and I, you know, that's harder to take away from you than a digital copy.

GDC 34:04

Yes. 100, 100%. Such great insight, too, because you know, a lot of times I've I've been practicing and I'm very curious and I'm a lifetime-long learner. And I used to tell my son when he was growing up, um, it takes a very strong mind to entertain a thought that it does not adopt. So be curious, son. Be curious, be curious, be curious. And when you get challenged, just that's okay too. This is what we mean about expanding, expanding our brains. But I'm also thinking about, you know, wow, how much more can we say about the moon? How much more can I talk about Mother Nature? How much more can we talk about the tarot? How much more? And and what I'm hearing is, oh no, it's a wave, and we need to, this is maybe even what I'm hearing in my own spirit for even the listeners from what you just said is like, oh no, we need to do it modernly. Give us this bridge between it is very old and ancient and the full, but then also maybe put it in a framework that under that's more understood by today. What do you think about that? Because I'm struggling with that a little bit.

Judika 35:25

Well, I mean, both. I mean, it has to be vital and current, and you know, something doesn't, you know, only dead things don't change. You know, that's I mean, if if it's alive, it evolves that. Um, and I think with magic spells you really see this because magic spells, you know, you know, the stereotypical, the cliche tools, and and these are good tools, and use them, you know, are wands and you know, crystal balls, and but uh can magic, if you can think of a sp of an of a thing, magic spells have been cast with it. As I mean, you'll see in 5000 spells, there are spells that are cast with food, with beer, with but also with emojis now, with laptops, you know, computer, you can you can use anything. And so whenever there's a new discovery, what are we gonna do with it? How can it help us magically? It has to be relevant for people today, because otherwise it's like, I don't know, you're studying a language that no one has spoken in 4,000 years. And I mean that could be very interesting, but it that's that's a whole different thing. Magic spells are to be used, and they they are for magic spells are are intended to make your life happier and better. And so we're I mean, maybe you are living like if you're living like people 4,000 years ago, then you can certainly do that. I mean, wasn't there that book like a year of like living like the Bible, like somebody who like lived like a biblical life for a year? Well, then you would cast the spells that work for that. But if you are a real modern person who's tech savvy, then those are the kind of spells that are gonna help you now.

Modern Tools From Emojis To Modems

GDC 37:16

If you are enjoying this show, you can support it by liking, subscribing, and sharing. Also, connect with us, leave a comment, text the show option wherever you listen to podcasts, leave a review, or email us at beliefbeingbeyond at gmail.com. Also, I'm on Patreon where a small donation goes a long way. Find this and more episodes at GranddaughterCrow.com. Thank you. Now back to the show. I love that. Because now Jenny and I in today's age, we are doing magical spells over our modems because of a guest that we had on the show and protecting our computer screens. And yeah. Well, it's pretty crucial. Yeah, it is. I have I have another question.

Saints In Magic And New Decks

GDC 38:11

So, what is a nice witch like you writing encyclopedias of saints?

Judika 38:20

Oh, you know, it shocks me too sometimes. I I do not come from a saint family. I do not come, it's not something I grew up with in my childhood. But actually, when I started working on 5,000 spells, and I have a book that's never been published, but I was researching it around this, you know. Uh I I I began researching another book, and that became 5,000 Spells, sort of morphed. I was shocked. I didn't know about Catholic folk magic. I was shocked by how many saints there were. I I mean, it was very shocking to me. And I had a very good friend, actually, the person I took when I wanted to make sure I was learning tarot correctly, doing it correctly. She was the person I happened to take the class from. And she was a saint lover. She was a lapsed Catholic who loved saints. And she encouraged me when I was having, I mean, it's in the introduction to 5,000 spells. I I had a not very nice ex-husband and um who would not go. Well, long story, but she told me to petition Saint Rita. And I said, Well, why would I'm not Catholic? Why would she help me? She said, just do it. And it worked. And it worked, and it was shocking to me. And I have I have become a saint lover myself. And I the the book in question is Encyclopedia of Mystic Saints and Sages. And saints are not exclusively Roman Catholic, and they are not exclusively pious. Um, they come from many, many religious and spiritual traditions, and none. There are there are folk saints that have nothing to do with any kind of organized religion or or even a disorganized religion. And it was just they are the thing with saints, and I recently edited um Antonio Pagliarillo's book, Queer Saints, which if you haven't read, it's it's a great book, and he's just a wonderful writer. Um, you have it? It's great. Um saints, with very, very, very few exceptions, were once living people who, having died, have refused to go on to whatever the next world is, or at least not entirely. They are staying to help the rest of us. And because they have been human beings, they are particularly sympathetic to us. You know, saints have also been hungry or thirsty or broke or had sexual desire, maybe for an inappropriate person. Um you know, they they they've lived human lives in a way that some spiritual entities have not. Um I I here, I have I don't have mystic saints and sages here, but this is the Encyclopedia of Spirits, um, which was it was originally supposed to be one book. They were gonna be, I I wanted to have the saints of the spirits together. I wanted you to be able to look at Saint Bridget and Goddess Bridget side by side, but it got too big, which is you know apparently my my fall. So um they were they ended up as two separate books, which I guess was good because we were able to do more saints than I could have done if it had been in the original book. But um there are spirits who have never had a human incarnation, and we're like, you know, we're we're like puppies. You know, sometimes they like us, you know, and they they take care of us. But we see how people take care of their pets. You know, some people are wonderful and responsible, and some people get bored with them. And, you know, the fluffy beloved puppy becomes the older abandoned dog, but that doesn't happen with saints, you know. They they they feel us, they get us. And so uh yeah, I mean it it it shocks me too. I don't know how I got here, but here I am.

GDC 42:26

And we love that you're here, and she's here on the show with her most recent magical spells oracle. Oh, Judika Ellis. And you have another one coming out here soon, or in September spells.

Judika 42:48

Yeah, it'll be out in September. Let me see if I have a copy to show you. Oh no, I have protection spells. I have seen a copy, it has rabbits instead of snakes. The rabbits of good luck, snakes for protection, rabbits for fortune, and good luck and prosperity and increase. Um, so that one has it has these great black rabbits, and it's very similar in format to protection spells. It is it will be out in September, it is available, it's the same size, same price. I've been thinking you could actually take them, you could put them together and get a big deck. Press protection and prosperity.

Jenny 43:29

A mega deck. I'm doing that. I'm already doing that. You can miss me.

Judika 43:34

A mega deck, yeah, exactly, exactly. And it's the same thing, spells on one side, rabbits on the other.

GDC 43:42

I love that 100%. Because now I'm like, okay, another trend on TikTok. Get both of these decks, the protection as well as prosperity. You're gonna make a go on TikTok. No, we'll do the work. Don't you worry. We got you, we got you. You keep editing. And writing. I mean, you're a busy, busy, busy woman, busy, busy woman. I'm going to let the little D out and turn it over to Jenny to ask any other questions.

Three Saints Witches Actually Use

Jenny 44:11

Yeah, so I would love to know, because you talked about saints, if you have uh like a handful of favorite saints that are helpful to just witches in general, because we we have a lot of new uh witches that listen to this and a lot of seekers that are just like spiritual seekers. And so, like a couple of saints that maybe they could research a little or talk to or kind of get to know.

Judika 44:35

The two saints that are associated with witchcraft a lot. Now, this is unofficial information. You know, if you go to official sources, they will tell you something else. But this is popular. Well, maybe I should give you three. Saint Anthony of Padua, um, who is the finding saint, um, especially in Italian magical folk traditions, you know, he he he's kind of known as the witch doctor saint. I I write a lot about him in my books, and in my experience, he is very effective. When we say the finding saint, if you can phrase it in terms of finding, then Saint Anthony should be able to provide it for you. A lot of people will ask Saint Anthony to um, you know, find your I mean, I am misplacing stuff all the time. I you know, it's like the glasses on top of your hat. Um the phone, the phone, my purse, things like that. So it's like it's not, it's not gone. You just can't find it. St. Anthony's really good at finding stuff like this. But you have to, I was taught a rhyme. Um, Tony Tony, I'm from New York and we call him Tony. It's there are other people who are, you know, more formal, Saint Anthony or you know, but Tony Tony, look around. Something's lost and must be found, and then tell him what you need. Um, but he doesn't just find uh lost articles, he he is famous for, um, he finds jobs, he finds professions, he finds um uh he's associated with prosthetics. If you need to find a heart transplant, he is you know, he he is a significant saint. If you need to find true love, if you need to find your life path, so he does I mean, I I wouldn't say small, you've lost your passport and you need it. That's a big thing, but he also did these these larger concepts. You have to be able to phrase it as finding. And you can do it if you think about it. Um sometimes it's just a little more challenging. That's but but you know, witchcraft will will teach you to think, it will teach you to see, it will teach you to hear, and it will teach you to think. Um, it's it's not I I find people mock it as you know the the province of fools and idiots, but uh those are people who don't know anything about it, they've never actually done it. So, you know, that that that's just a judgment call. Another one, and people will get mad at me because I'm saying Saint Expedite, and you know, Saint Expedite Expedite, I think Expeditus, Saint Expedite, what you can pronounce it however you want to pronounce it. He is the saint of fast action, and he is um people don't think he is an official saint, and by official that means canonized, but he is actually one of the first saints to be canonized. The earliest Roman Catholic saints were soldier saints, and that's not his name. That is um a type of a Roman foot soldier. They're fast, they they didn't carry anything with them, so they were very, very fast. And when you when you need something fast, uh money, um uh maybe you healing. Um he's a great healer, something that you you know, you he he's the one who cuts through red tape. You know, you need your passport, and it's just sitting on someone's desk, and you need them to hurry up and process it, he would be the go-to saint for that. Um, and that's E-X-P-E-D-I-T-E.

GDC 48:25

Thank you. I was literally just writing it down. You are so intuitive.

Judika 48:30

Uh um and he they are actually, there's a lot of spells associated with them. So they are both in my encyclopedia of spirits as well as in Encyclopedia of Mystic Saints and Sages. And I think Michael Archangel would be the third one. People don't think of Michael as as a witchcraft saint. Michael is venerated by so many different faiths and people and uh pagans, uh but uh he he is a guardian and he he's he's good, you know, capital G, good. He's righteous. And so Saint Michael, he's also very important in Italian folk magic and Italian magic. And he is, you know, I I can say from people say uh questions I'm asked, what is the spell you do most often? I invoke him twice a day, morning and night, because he is the one who will protect you.

Jenny 49:28

I feel like we're best friends, Judika. Because Tony Tony Tony gets called on all the time in this house. And I always say Archangel Michael is my homeboy. That's how I describe it, calling him twice a day. And I love that so much. I like couldn't stop myself. I had to like jump in because I've had people say to me, like, I'll put something on social media and be like, Michael's an angel, you can't work with him because you're like a witch. And I'm like, no, honey, angels have been around before religion. Like he belongs to all of us, and he is like my go-to. And I always suggest to someone if like you're trying to like reach out to an aspect of divinity and you're you're kind of scared or timid, he accepts everybody.

Judika 50:11

I have an encyclopedia, a list, encyclopedia of spirits, a list of five or six spirits, including Michael Archangel. And that's a generic term. I use that for all kinds of spirits because I don't want to have a hierarchy. Because once you start calling someone goddesses and you know, a god or goddess is up here, but maybe your fairy is more important to you than somebody else's. I I I wanted to equalize it. I want you to figure out what's most important for you. Um I don't even know where I was going with this.

GDC 50:50

I love that though. I absolutely love that because it isn't um magic, isn't what I heard was going. I'm sorry.

Jenny 51:01

Go for it.

Judika 51:01

You can't. Don't ever let people say you can't. Because my I have an author who just did a great you will love this book. It's uh she's got a lot of runes in there if you're interested in something Nordic. Lauren Morris, the book will be out in July. Lauren L-O-R-E-N Morris, The Crafty Witch's Guide to Cord Magic. And she said something once online that really stuck with me. I'm a witch because I do what I want.

Jenny 51:26

She's looking for the book because she just got it in the mail.

Judika 51:29

Oh, oh, yes, that's it. It just came. I it's not even available in stores yet, I think. I'm a witch because I do what I want. So I don't want somebody to tell me like the banned books. You can't read this, you can't do that, you can't say this. Oh yeah.

GDC 51:49

You're making me jump up and show and tell. I am having so much fun. So yeah, Queer Saints is coming out as well. Uh Queer Saints is out.

Judika 51:59

Queer Saints is published June 1st, and I think that will be July 1st. So it'll be out soon.

Jenny 52:05

We're birthday siblings. We're like book birthday siblings, me and Queer Saints, Divergent Witchcraft. Oh wow, oh wow, that's so exciting. Yeah.

Judika 52:16

Well, I hope it's it's it's it's a prosperous and beneficial and wonderful day for both of you.

GDC 52:23

Thank you. I love it. So, Jenny, do you want to ask the last question? We ask this of all of our guests.

What Lies Beyond After Death

Jenny 52:33

Yeah, so it's very open-ended. So, however you want to answer, but we are belief being in beyond. And so we'd love to know what you think lies beyond.

Judika 52:46

My favorite vision of what lies beyond comes from a novel, it comes from a work of fiction. It is Amy Tan's uh Hundred Secret Senses, or maybe it's a thousand secret senses, a hundred secret senses. I read that book many years ago, and if you like not to give anything away, but I love a reincarnation novel. And if you like a mystical spiritual novel, that's a great novel. But in it, so there are um two sisters, two half-sisters, one of whom is um a skeptic, and one of whom is uh very mystical, the older sister. And the skeptical sister kind of says to her, you know, what happens after we die? What you know, we she's questioning her and she describes, and I I I I this may not even be from the book anymore because I have thought about this so much and adapted in my head. It's almost like, do you know those huge catering halls where you can have like six weddings, uh Bar Mitzvah, Cans in the area, all going on at the same time, um, maybe a memorial service. Well, they're different rooms, but they're it's the same building. And so there are all these different afterlifes. And if it's not so it's like if you're in love with someone, I don't know, you you you're you know, you're a Catholic and you're in love with somebody who isn't, and you you can go to their you can go to theirs, like you don't have to be separated. And if you go to a heaven, you go to an afterlife, and it's not happening for you, it's like crashing a party. Like imagine you're at a wedding, but you know you can see that the other wedding across the hall is a better wedding, it's just a better party. You can go there. Um and I I like that. I like that that we're not we're not set. We have some choice. We don't have to be separated from people who um you know and I say that, you know, I know I know somebody who actually they were Catholic, and the the the husband and the child were Catholic, but the mother was Jewish and was working on converting her, and he told the child that they were gonna go to heaven, but they better convert mom because otherwise she was gonna go to hell. And what a terrible thing to say. What a terrible thing to say. So um to a small child. Yeah. And I think he really believed that. Yeah. So I i I I I don't believe that. I think that if you're going to a good place, you don't have to be separated from your loved ones. And I also don't I don't believe that there's that human beings have one soul. I believe we have multiple souls. And so maybe there's that soul that moves on to an afterlife realm. Maybe there's a soul that gets reincarnated, maybe there's a soul that sticks around to watch over your loved ones here. Um, you know, there's a lot of beliefs that if you go to the cemetery, you go to where someone is buried, a a part of them is a fragment is still there. And a powerful fragment. Not not fragment in a negative sense that they're powerless. But uh I I think these are mysteries that we're gonna find out. And that's exciting.

GDC 56:14

Oh, I absolutely love that. Because now I'm like, yeah, this part of me is gonna watch over my son, whose name is Michael, by the way, right? Um, but there's a part of me that wants to come back and you know fill out an application to be a saint. I don't know if that's possible, but I mean, might as well wander, you know.

Judika 56:38

But that is true of a lot of saints. A lot of saints announce before they die, or you know, some people come after they die, you know, dreams or envisions. And, you know, when I die, I am going to be, I'm I'm not gonna, I mean, I don't know if they use the there are other words that indicate the same thing, but essentially I'm gonna be a saint, I can be reached. If you need help, um then you know, you you can reach out to me. And sometimes they'll give you instructions for how to reach out to them. Sometimes they're quite explicit. I want to say that Saint Nick, I I could be wrong on this, I'm working for my memory, but as this is an Encyclopedia of Mystic Saints and Sages, Saint Nicholas. If you remember his parents, uh he'll help you. And I have the parents' name in the book. Yeah, so they're they're all kinds of different. There are there are there are saints that will, you know, if you go to my grave and you say these prayers, if you do this, if you if you do good deeds, if you do something, I will help you. So I mean it's it's fascinating.

GDC 57:52

I want to be one of those.

Judika 57:55

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just think that you could still come and help.

GDC 58:00

Yeah. Oh, I'm not gonna make it easy. I'm just gonna show up like a crow. Like I'm gonna be haunting you guys. What do we got?

Jenny 58:09

Oh, yeah. Amy Tan, I look, I was looking it up. It's the Hundred Secret Senses by Amy Tan for listeners that are like, I need to read that book because that was me. Because I love the Joy Luck Club. So you said Amy Tan, I was like, I need to add this to my list.

Judika 58:23

Well, this book in particular is very magical.

Jenny 58:26

Yeah, sounds like it. I'm adding it. It's gonna go on the Libby holds.

Judika 58:30

Let me know. Let me know what you think. I'd love to hear.

Jenny 58:33

Yeah.

Final Recommendations And Goodbye

GDC 58:35

Well, I absolutely love it. I could we could just like spend all the time with you because this has been so much fun. Uh, thank you so much, Judika, for coming on to the show. You can follow Judika on Instagram and Facebook. I'll put all of that in the show notes. Um, I don't even know how to end this beautiful circle. I don't think a circle has an ending. I really, really don't. I just this is full circle for me, you know, with my big encyclopedia that I knew that I had to have, to having you on the show, to having you guys talk about Tony, Tony, Tony. I mean, the whole thing is just shows that we we magic is so beautiful. Um, Jenny, do you have anything else that you wanted to say before we sign off? Because I'm just floating now.

Jenny 59:32

Um, just one more thing is it's prosperity, the prosperity oracle. And I think you said September 7th, right? So everybody should look for that. And you want to buy protection spells too, and then you're gonna make a mega deck. So just a reminder for everybody.

GDC 59:49

That's exactly right. You heard it here first, you guys. This is how we're gonna do our magic. Yep, I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much, Judika, for spending some time with us. And it has been an absolute honor. Absolute honor, and thank you guys for listening to yet another episode of Belief Being and Beyond. Blessings to you. 5,000 spells, you'll never run out, get the oracle back and all of it. Anyway, we love you guys. We will see you on the flippity flip. Thank you for listening to another episode of Belief Being and Beyond. Please subscribe and share with whomever would enjoy this podcast. And please leave us a review. We really, really appreciate that. For more about Granddaughter Crow, Granddaughter Crow.com. There you can learn about her classes, sessions, and all of her books. And for more about Ginny C. Bell, please visit Ginny C Bell.com, where you can learn about her books, her classes, and her our cousin community. Thank you so much for listening.