From Owner to Running a 400-Door Property Management Company - Jon Fidero Interview

If you found this episode helpful, please leave a review!

Transcript

Stephen Fox
John, thank you so much for joining me today. To kick things off, can you tell everybody a little bit about your background and experience in property management?

Jon Fidero
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Steven. So I actually came into property management, as an owner first, I was investing my own money, managing my own rentals. I actually was working full time and managing a growing portfolio. So I was kind of dealing with the same things that, our owners today are dealing with on a, on a day-to-day basis. So I handled maintenance calls, tenant issues.

Cashflow stress, trying to make the right decisions business-wise with imperfect structure, just kind of running and gunning. After a while, I realized there's a big disconnect between how owners think about their properties and how management companies operate. I reached out to a bunch of property management companies in the area.

This would have been going back, gosh, I don't know, well over 10 years ago. Just realizing that I was beyond what I could handle anymore. Had like 40 or 50 units I was trying to manage on the side. And I struggled with what the management companies were offering. And so I actually came into property management because I really didn't trust my, you know, multi-million dollar portfolio to anybody around here.

And, that's kind of Vesta grew out of that gap of like who was out there that actually, understands what being a property owner and investor in real estate was all, is all about. And so as a result, you know, I became a licensed broker. I'm an active investor and operator. I talked to owners directly and, I speak, I was, I've been able to speak from firsthand experience, which is really.

Been the backbone of who we are as a company and our core philosophy. So just a little, you know, it's a little background. Ended up, I ended up purchasing a property management company, um, to take on my own portfolio. And then it just started growing from there pretty much word of mouth.

Stephen Fox
At the time that you purchased the company, how many third party doors were they managing?

Jon Fidero
I'd say probably 60 or 70. So we basically doubled. I added mine and we were at like 125 to start.

Stephen Fox
So day one, you have this company you just purchased plus your own properties. What were the first things you focused on when you had acquired the business?

Jon Fidero
Yeah. Uh, the first thing was like waking up and realizing that I've got to like think about other people. Um, you know, it was one of those, I didn't know what I didn't know. And, I thought, oh, you know, I'll just buy this existing infrastructure. I'll throw my properties into it. No kind of just run. I was like, no, it wasn't going to work like that. Um, you know, lessons learned as part of the, the buying experience and that, you know, that's a whole nother podcast, but, at the beginning, I wasn't even focused on.

I don't, I wasn't even thinking about growth. I was thinking about all these issues that I inherited and I've got all these owners looking to me. And, at the end of the day, I kind of just naturally, it came naturally to me. Cause I just started talking to them like, well, this is, this is what you need to do. Cause this is what I'm doing. This is how you should be doing it. This, you know, here's all my experience. And I just kind of brought it to the table. And, that was, you know, at the beginning was really kind of figuring out who we were as a company.

What I wanted to do as a company. I never had the vision that this would become like a full-time thing. Years ago, I quit my full-time job and started doing this full-time because we just were growing to the point where I needed to make a decision about it. But initially that wasn't the case. I wasn't really thinking about that. Mostly, are we? What are we trying to do? Who are we trying to serve? Those were the first strategic.

Strategic questions for me and for the folks working under me.

Stephen Fox
And you mentioned that you were working another job at the same time. At what point did you get to a size where you're like, okay, I need to go at this full time?

Jon Fidero
200 doors. 200 doors.

Stephen Fox
Busy double the order you had originally been when you acquired it.

Jon Fidero
Yeah, and that happened pretty quickly. As soon as we got going, I came in and I cleaned house. Looked at everything that was going on. I thought it was this well-oiled machine. It was just going to be this simple, I'll just drop my stuff in and it's going to keep running. It wasn't. It was an absolute nightmare. So I came in and just raised the thing to the ground and rebuilt it. But I had the ability to do so because I had the income.

That we were generating to be able to just, I just put everything back into, into the business for the first year or two. And I, and I just basically rebuilt it. So it wasn't until we got to about 200 doors where I was like, you know what I need to, I need to actually start thinking about staff. That's 200 doors is where we hired our first kind of property manager and allowed me to take a step back and get out of the trenches of the day to day and focus more towards growth.

That was when I called you guys to say, Hey, we need to, you know, let's, let's, we've got some infrastructure in place. I've got a team, you know, at the beginnings of a team in place. Let's start growing and what's my role. And that's where I, I started just focusing on owners and, managing those relationships. And then I had, you know, a growing team to date, do the day to day. And I even started my own handyman service. So we have that as part of our, management service as well. That was a couple of years after we started.

Stephen Fox
So if we start back from the the 110 doors roughly that you have when you purchase the company You said you grew to 200 fairly quickly was that all through word-of-mouth or what did that look like? Okay

Jon Fidero
That was all word of mouth. Yeah.

Stephen Fox
And then once you hit that 200 door mark is where you kind of start to put that owner hat on and like, okay, I'm going to go at this full time. And now I'm ready to really start to grow and bring on more property owners. At that point, like what did you start to do to get the word out? Because now word of mouth had helped quite a bit actually, about 100 doors. And you want to continue to scale it. What else did you do to grow the business?

Jon Fidero
So we, like I said, we mentioned we brought up keep on and you guys kind of really helped us to start getting more presence online. And that's that has actually been that in referrals are kind of our two major sources of growth. I have also, I do a lot of networking. So I'm connecting with agents with other brokers.

And just kind of meeting people and growing, you know, networking that way. That's, I do it. That's pretty much a lot of what I do is just growing the business, less of the day to day, more of the, you know, connecting with, with folks that can put me in front of folks, you know, other people that have property or looking for property.

Stephen Fox
So in terms of networking, for someone, let's say that isn't an expert in networking, what are you doing? Are you showing up to their office? Are you finding local meetups? What does that look like for you? How does that...

Jon Fidero
Yeah. Well, it's a little, it's, it's a little, it's easier said than done. So there's no magic. There's no magic sauce that I can share. I think I'm, I'm at an advantage because I am,

I'm a licensed broker, so I already kind of have an in. I can get to a broker a lot easier than some just random property manager on the street. They're gonna take my call a lot more seriously. I also, I'm an investor and I have a pretty large network of investors that I've worked with over the years who know of me. I continue to maintain those relationships. So it helps for that I'm already investing. I'm very knowledgeable in real estate. I've purchased a ton of real estate, sold real estate.

Through every, I've built homes, I've been through every stage of every process. So I can say, you know, just get out there and make phone calls. It's not that easy. I get that. But I would say, you know, I've been reading your questions, kind of thinking about what sort of advice would I give to a property manager, to a company that's looking to grow or has questions or I really, I really believe and

Right or wrong, I really believe the differentiation between an excellent property management company and one that's just sort of your run of the mill is that you have an owner or a property manager, like high level folks that make executive decisions who own property. I think it's actually crucial. And I say that as an investor who would never in a million years give any of my property to someone to manage that doesn't own property. I would never do it.

And I think that when you do that, it opens doors. Now you're in front of title companies. Now you're in front of agents. Now you're in front of, know, being in that world is what you have to do in order to, I think, make those kinds of connections. Invest. Get into the world in which you work.

Stephen Fox
How do you deal with, because you mentioned you talk to other agents and they refer you clients, but you're an agent yourself, how do you deal with basically them potentially being scared that they'll lose out on the future sale of the property?

Jon Fidero
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, that was a decision I had to make. Had to decide early on, whether I was going to kind of try and pursue both tracks. And I made the decision early on and it was easy for me to make because I really dislike taking people around and showing them houses. It really just is one of the least desirable things I've ever done in my life. So I tell folks agents, I talk, even when I talk to, investors who come on with me,

I do not take real estate clients. Do not buy and sell. I refer. I refer everything.

Stephen Fox
So you basically, if you send us a property when they're ready to sell it, we send it back to you.

Jon Fidero
Absolutely. And I, I'll, sign NDAs and I, know, I actually, yeah, I go, I go the extra mile for them to put them at ease. So they know that I would never in a million years desire to sell. If, if an owner, even if an owner comes to me, I have pre-established relationships now with a couple of different agents, depending on the deal, depending on, you know, a number of factors, I'll reach out and say, Hey, I've got an owner who's looking to sell and I will partner with not partner with them. I'll essentially just give them the referral. And then I network, you know, I, I internally will, will.

You know, I'll go to all of my investor network and let them know that, we've got a property coming up for sale. But then I have an agent from a different brokerage who will then put it on the MLS and do all of the actual listing. And between the two of us, we kind of tag team it, but I do not, I don't touch it. So, so yeah, that, that's what you have to do. Cause cause that's a huge conflict of interest. If you're, know, you're never going to be able to grow with agents. If they're worried about the threat of you taking their clients.

Stephen Fox
Naturally. So in terms of, you said that you would never have hired a property manager that doesn't own properties themselves. What do you think is a key driver to getting owners to stay with your business? Like are you guys communicating with them on a quarterly basis? What does that look like?

Jon Fidero
I communicate with them monthly. My, what I've done personally is I am, I maintain the point of contact. So when I sell an owner, when I bring them on board, I let them know, Hey, I'm going to introduce you to my team. But at the end of the day, you call, text me anytime you have direct access to me. And I think that that is what has really kept folks on, you know, we don't see huge churn here.

The only time, I mean, people leave only because they want to sell. I don't get folks that leave because they're upset with service because they have a direct line to me and I have the answers. They don't have to get bounced around from, you know, staff. I've dabbled, I've tried over the years. I've been like, okay, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to portion off this part of the portfolio and I'm let this person have a little bit more leadership and take it on. I don't know, maybe I'm just very controlling when it comes to that relationship.

But it just didn't go the way I wanted it to. So I've just decided that that's where I'm gonna stay. That's my role is basically staying connected to the homeowners. They know they have direct access to me.

Stephen Fox
I mean, naturally from a homeowner standpoint, when they know they have direct access to you, they're going to feel a lot more confident. I guess the downside is it's a lot of demand on you as the owner, right? Because anytime someone has anything that they're going to end up reaching out to you, but you have to know your strengths at the end of the day. And I imagine for you, it's not that.

Jon Fidero
You have to know your strengths. My, so I didn't mention this, but it kind of helps to fill in the details of why that comes naturally to me. I spent a decade in the nonprofit work doing major gift fundraising. So keeping a portfolio of clients, of donors, and keeping those relationships alive and active and healthy and keeping them giving, that was essentially what I did. So I just took all of those skills and just transferred them over.

Here, so now this is just, this is my portfolio. These are my folks, you know, invite, I invite them out to stuff. Have events for them. We, you we just treat them really well because they're, you know, they're clients. They, and I take their investment very seriously. And I think they feel that, you know, truly feel that not only because I'm in it, but because of just the way that I interact with them.

Stephen Fox
And at this point, what does your team look like? How many people are on your team? What are the rules?

Jon Fidero
Yeah. Yeah. So we've, so we're, we're about 400 doors now. And I've got, I've got a kind of a property manager, director of property management who handles a lot of the, day to day and, and she has an admin, you know, and a leasing agent. And then we've got an inspector slash, kind of first level handyman. So this person would kind of do, Hey, this wall plate is missing or this bulb is, you know,

Very, very low level stuff that I don't want to waste the entire, you know, trip for one of my texts to go out. So they'll do that sort of a thing. And, they all kind of wear that marketing cap. So I don't have like a specific person who's on marketing, but the team has divvied up the tasks in terms of, you know, the social, all the social media type of stuff. So we, so yeah, so it's it's a pretty, I don't know. I actually haven't really,

I haven't really asked around. I'd be curious to know your, you know, hear your feedback based upon the number of doors, whether that's too much staff or too lean staff. I don't know, it's hard to find that right balance, but right now that's where we're at. We've got four, I've got four people under me.

Stephen Fox
Think that, again, I'm not pretending to be an expert on putting together teams for property management divisions, property management companies, but that seems to be right around the average of what we hear for companies at your size. I think it also depends on what your strengths are and what your goals are. So at this point, who is it that's handling the sales and the business development? Is it you or is it another team member? What does that look like?

Jon Fidero
Yeah.

Jon Fidero
Yeah, that's me. I handle the sales because I mean, I don't say it to brag, it's just a reality. Would much rather, I mean, would love to pass on as much as possible. I'd love to do as little as possible, but I close virtually everyone that gets in front of me. So it's really hard to pass on the leads and to watch them like, we didn't get that one, didn't get that one, didn't get, you know, I hate seeing them because I know I can close them.

Stephen Fox
Yeah, what we've seen, just talking from experience, usually the companies that grow the fastest to around a thousand door mark, it is the owner. That's the primary driver for sales. Handing off everything else. Your main focus is the business development sales. And then eventually once you get to that point of around a thousand doors, some people might be a little bit earlier, some people a little bit later.

Jon Fidero
I see that clearly.

Stephen Fox
Then you hire a full-time salesperson. Again, this isn't a one size fits all, but that's generally how we see it for the fastest growing companies, I guess you could say. I guess at this point, do you have a preference for working with investors, accidental landlords? How are you trying to build up your business?

Jon Fidero
I take on anybody and I always let folks know, mean, there are certain boundaries, there are certain things that I can't do or I don't do well. And I just disclose it upfront. I tell the folks where we excel, where we do really well and where we're gonna have fail points.

You know, if somebody comes in and wants to all a cart, I'm just going to be straight up with them. I'll say, Hey, look, this is, this is your investment. You just, tell me what you want and what you don't want. Um, you don't want me to do this or that and you're going to handle it. And I'm going to, I just tell them that is exactly where this relationship is going to fail. It's going to be right there. So unless you have some, you know, specific vision that you want to share with me about how that, what that's going to look like. Um, again, we'll move forward. I'm happy to, I'm happy to just be there for you to support you, know, um,

But we are built to handle this full scale. So we're full service. That's what we're built for. But if you come to me and you say, I mean, I do have owners who are contractors. That's like, hey, don't need you to do any maintenance. Well, that's fine.

Just so you know that this is gonna be a fail point because I have a tenant who I've signed a lease with and they communicate with us, but I send all maintenance to you. And if something doesn't go well there, I'm gonna hear about it and we're gonna have to, this is just gonna be this ongoing saga of the triangle that we've created just so long as you're okay with that. And if that's not a huge waste of your time, then I'm happy to do whatever is that you want.

The communication is important and that's where I got burned early on is just trying to do be everything to everyone. And I've had some situations arise because I'm just trying to do something that's not really in my wheelhouse. One example, I had an owner who needed help moving their furniture and I said, hey, yeah, get a pod out there and we'll move it.

Jon Fidero
I should have been a little bit more specific. I probably should have had a separate contract for it because it became this huge saga because we couldn't fit everything into the pod that they claimed was going to be able to fit. And they're on the West coast, just, you know, and we're going back and forth and it was just this big, it was just this big ordeal. And then, you know, a piece of glass gets broken and transit and all this. And it was like, all of sudden I said, you know, wait a second, I can't be, I'm not a moving company. I have access to labor, but I don't, I have no clue.

Stephen Fox
Yeah.

Stephen Fox
Yeah.

Jon Fidero
I don't know how to wrap anything. My guys don't know how to stack things and play Tetris inside the pod box. Like, so, so things like that. So now I've learned over the years. And so, so it's really, for me, it's just upfront communication. This is what we do and how we do it and why we do it. If you'd like to deviate, let me know how, and I'm just going to tell you right now that that will be where it fails. So as long as you're okay with, with knowing that, um, you know, we'll, we'll kind of structure things as best we can, but to answer your questions, I prefer.

I love investors who

We just see eye to eye and we connect and we have the same investment philosophy. Those are my best clients. Those are the ones that, you know, we have great relationships and who I've, I feel that I've benefited and they've benefited me of course. And we've been really a mutually beneficial relationship. So, but I do also like those accidental landlords because it's a great opportunity, learning lesson for them. It's a great opportunity to kind of educate them and help them to see how.

You know, how this, you know, it's better that they don't sell the house for whatever reason. You can actually turn this into cash flow and what does that look like? And so it's fun to kind of see the, that light, light bulb moment of like, wow, I can, wow, this is actually really good for me financially. And, know, so that's kind of cool too, but I do love, I do love, you know, an investor who understands the game, just gets it. And we just, you know, speak the same language.


Stephen Fox
Yeah, touching on the exceptions that you were talking about, two things. One, yeah, generally the more exceptions you make as a business, the harder it is to run the business because you need systems, you need to have a set way of doing things. And when you're making exceptions for multiple different owners, it ends up becoming a mess.

The other thing, so you were touching on some of your owners are contractors and they want to handle the maintenance issues. But what I could see happening is they don't handle that maintenance issue quick enough. The tenant gets upset. Who are they going to leave the negative review for? Right? It's your company. So now your company is at the mercy of how well this contractor does.

Jon Fidero
Exactly. Yeah.

Stephen Fox
When it's not even your fault, technically. So another reason why generally exceptions don't work out, it's tough also because sometimes you're like, well I want the business and he's saying, or she's saying, I'm gonna do the maintenance, kind of sounds great at first, right? Because you're like, well I don't even have to take care of maintenance issues, I just have to tell them. But then later down the road, when it doesn't work the way that it normally would does efficiently, and you get the negative review, you're the one kind of left.

Jon Fidero
Yeah.

Stephen Fox
Losing in that situation.

Jon Fidero
Absolutely. Yeah, fortunately that hasn't happened yet, but I can see exactly how it could happen. And we do have kind of a clause in the agreement, our management agreement that any sort of arrangement that's made, if it's not working, we have the right to terminate it, to end it, whether that's...

Hey, we're taking the maintenance back or whether that's, Hey, we're no longer managing for you. Sorry. This is not working for these reasons or whatever. So we give ourselves an out. I actually, I actually have an, my, my management agreement is at will. I can leave for any reason whatsoever with a 30 day notice and so can, and so can the client. So, and that came out of that. That came out of two things. Number one, I personally had a major issue giving.

My portfolio to somebody who wanted to keep it for a year and I wasn't really sure how, if they were going to be good or not. And I didn't like the idea of them being able to hold my investment hostage. My investments hostage, like, sorry, you got four more months on this contract. You always, you know, I, that just really rubs me wrong. So, you know, I couldn't also turn around now and ask a homeowner to do the same thing. So we're, pretty confident. And you know, since I'm actually the one in front of that relationship, I'm pretty confident that, you know, an owner is not going to just.

Up and leave because they're dissatisfied. I would get in front of it sooner. I can imagine. So I kind of, you know, that helps me with the exceptions too, because if they started to get out of control, I can just, I can just terminate the agreement and be like, Hey, this didn't work out. So.

Stephen Fox
Yeah, for sure. During your time in property management, what would you say is one of the craziest experiences you've witnessed or been a part of?

Jon Fidero
I have witnessed...

Pretty much everything you can imagine. I don't have, but I've heard much crazier stories. I thought about this question and at the advice of...

Council, I decided I don't, I don't think I'm going to share specifics about anything related to what we've done. But I, but I do want to share a positive story and then I will, and then I'll share kind of the craziest that I've ever heard. So it wasn't one that I experienced, but one that it's nothing that I can share, whatever top this. Why, so why would I try to compete? But the, the, best stories and it's only happened once or no, it's only happened twice in the

10 plus years I've been doing this. The best story is when you're trying to work with a tenant, and they just can't make it, can't make the turn, you end up having to evict. And we always try our best to, at every step, just provide them an out, provide them a way to not have this destroy them financially. And so we try and create payment plans.

We try to just really work with them and we'll even extend it beyond the eviction. Like if you ever want to come back, we'll work with you to get this judgment removed, et cetera. And I've had two people who have come back who are serious about getting their life together. And it's a year or two later they come back and they pay back a that's owed, a balance from when they either vacated or when they were evicted from the unit.

Jon Fidero
When you think about the, just the thousands and thousands of people that have come through and probably the hundreds of evictions that I've done over the years and you know, the odds of somebody coming back and actually saying, Hey, I've got this obligation and fulfilling it. That's a pretty incredible story. If you ask me. But the craziest, the craziest story I've ever heard different state. It's actually my, my property manager. She worked for a big.

Big regional company. Like had, think they had like 9,000 doors or something. She went into a situation with somebody who had been murdered. There was blood all over the apartment. There were drugs all over the apartment and she was involved with the cartel. So it was, the story is absolutely insane. I don't know how she's still alive, but apparently she, she,

Whatever she needed to do to make them happy at the time. And I can't top that, but crazy story.

Stephen Fox
Okay, yeah. The situations you get into in property management are always, always nuts.

Jon Fidero
Yeah.

Jon Fidero
The saddest are like, it's just sometimes the filth, just the levels of which, you get kind of, you get to see into how some people live. And it's not just poverty, it's not just struggling, it's...

It's really, it's just crazy how people can live. You you walk in and just having animal feces and just, it's just crazy. It's just absolutely mind boggling. So, but you get numb to it. You kind of move on and that's, that's really not a big deal anymore to me.

Stephen Fox
I guess one thing that's tough about property management is naturally you have to deal with a lot of difficult situations or tenant complaints. How do you manage the stress of that without, because you seem pretty laid back. Maybe it's just on the outside, but you definitely appear it. Like, how do you deal with that day to day? Cause no doubt at 400 properties, you're probably dealing with at least one complaint per week, if not more.

Right. How do you continue to move on and not let that stuff affect your day, affect your mood?


Jon Fidero
So we represent, you we have an agreement with the homeowner. The homeowner is our client and we have a lease agreement between the tenant. And we really just, it took me and it took me a little while. So I'm not, you know, I don't mean to sound like, you know, I'm an expert or anything. But one of the first things we did, and it actually just happened from just having these experiences where you're, trying to work with people. You're trying, you're trying to be accommodating.

And you get taken advantage of. Honestly, it's been through the legal side, like being in the courtroom and seeing how the court operates, how, and this is gonna be different from every jurisdiction. So, what's happening here is not gonna be the same thing that's gonna happen in New York or Massachusetts or Florida. So what's happening here in Virginia and in our particular district, kind of seeing the inner workings of the court system and understanding.

What the judge is looking for. Then going back and interpreting what you see, you know, actually my time spent in court in eviction, you know, I'll be there for a couple hours watching all these court cases go through and just watch and just, that was one of the greatest learning lessons for me in terms of understanding the nuts and bolts of how this works. Like what is the Virginia Landlord Tenant Act? So now I kind of, not only can I read the document, but I have lived experience to inform my interpretation of that document.

And so now when tenants come at me, I know what's gonna fly and what's not. And we just call their bluff. And I use the lease. I'm like, I'm sorry, the lease says this. And then they, well, you have blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I'll see you in court. You know, like we just, I don't know. Just, I know what's, you know, this isn't a question of, it's interesting. It's not so much like, hey, you owe us this or this is right or this is wrong. It's just, you this is what the statute says.

This is what I believe the interpretation is going to be. You have a different interpretation. Let's go before a judge and find out. Let's just see. You know, I don't, don't need to be mad at you. You don't need to be mad at me. We have a disagreement. How do you want to solve it? And you can, you can take me all the way. You can go get an attorney. I've got four or five attorneys for different related matters that I've, you know, relationships I've built over, the years, depending on what, you know, what it is. And, so I, I know, I know what wins and what doesn't win. I know when I'm

When I have a responsibility and when I don't. So that's kind of how we handle it. And we keep it very objective. And this actually ties into my bigger point about owning property. When you own property, that relationship between landlord and tenant changes drastically. And I have seen it with so many property management companies around here because I have these owners that come to me. And for them, it's this breath of fresh air to hear that I'm not going to cater to the tenant.

I'm not going to go and defend the tenant to the owner and say, Hey, you need to do this, Mr. Landlord. This guy, you know, look at this. They're, you know, your perfect example. Hey, there's moisture, there's, moisture buildup in my bathroom and there's mildew growing. Have you opened the window? No, we don't have to use the window. You have to install an exhaust fan. This is code. It's like, no, actually if there's a bathroom in the window, that is up to code. So it's like, it's kind of knowing that

So that tenants can't come in and start throwing like mold around and some of these words that get people sort of like, no, we've got to act quickly or we're going to, you that's, just, you just kind of have to understand. And again, it's jurisdiction, it's district by district. So I, you know, this is not advice, you know, to take globally, but knowing what flies and what doesn't fly and what your codes are locally, it's important to know.

And that's how you can know when you're in the right, when you're in the wrong, and when you need to make a, you know, make a move. And then you can go to your landlord informed and say, Hey, here's the path that you can go. There's this way and there's this way. And it's way more informed than just, Hey, the tenants crying wolf. So we need to react.


Stephen Fox
Yeah. I think the global advice there is know the landlord tenant laws in and out and get really familiar with them, not just from a handbook, but yeah, if you can go spend a day in court and watch.

Eviction processes go down in court, you get a better idea for what's legal, what's not, and then when you get tenants call in and they're complaining about something, you have a somewhat clear black and white of we're doing everything we should here or yeah, we didn't and we have to fix that. I think that's some really good advice rather than trying to get everything to be an emotional decision.

Jon Fidero
Yeah, you have to remove the emotion. That's I mean, that's what you're there for. When I was managing my own properties, that was I was the most taken advantage of, because I was the person that they appealed to. And it was and I'm and I'm a I

I'm a good natured person. I don't want to see people suffering. I understand that there's hardship. Want to believe in people and give them the benefit of the doubt. So it's, man, I'm gonna get paid next week. Can I pay you next week? But I also have a life. Like I've got a family, I have a job. So I'm trying to do all these things and it's like, shoot, two weeks later I forget, hey, you were supposed to pay me. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna have it to you next week. And so you hear these bleeding heart stories and you want to believe them, but nine times out of 10, they're just.

Taking advantage of you. So we have to as a property management company, we have to stand in that place for the owner and not allow any of that. No, you signed a contract. I get that you have things that are going on in your life, but those are not my problems. So you

Stephen Fox
And that's benefit of the owner to hire a property manager.

Jon Fidero
Yes. That's exactly why. So you don't have to, and you know, it's really interesting. I, my, this last year I updated my management agreement. I put in like three or four paragraphs, which are more of just like a talking point for me when I go through the contract with an owner, but I talk about agency. And one of the things I say very explicitly, and I actually have them initial this first, you a couple of paragraphs, there's, you know, I have them initially cause I want to make sure that they really read it they understand it. We are not here.

Property managers, we're not here to prevent bad things from happening. We're here to deal with them when they do happen because we can't control human behavior. I can, I can put in, I can't even tell you how many people I've put in with over 700 credit score who end up having to be evicted or leave on bad terms or just, you know, term, you know, terminate the contract early or whatever. There, there isn't, you know, people's lives go sideways and any number of ways: death, divorce, sickness... 

We can't, no one can control that. But if you're not, if you're not, if you don't have a property manager there, then it's going to fall to you. You're going to have to deal with this. Honestly, it's one of the best selling points for having a property manager. Not so that, hey, why is this happening? Why did you allow this rent not to be paid? It's like, well, no, no, no, listen, the rent was not going to be paid. The difference is I'm going to go after it and you don't have to. Or hey, I, you know, this person damaged, how could you let this person damage the house? Well, listen, the house was going to get damaged by this person, apparently, you know, this whatever happened happened. But now we are going to handle it for you, we're going to make sure it gets restored, we're going to make sure that, you know, we hold their feet to the fire to get this taken care of. You don't have to. And it's a beautiful sort of piece that you can, you know, you know, have knowing that, okay, I've got this investment that's passive, truly passive income, I don't have to think about it. That's, that's kind of the way I sell it.

Stephen Fox
Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. If you could go back in time to when you started your journey in property management, what is the one thing that you would change to help yourself succeed at a faster pace, whether that means growing quicker or making sure things run under more control, whatever your definition of success is?

Jon Fidero
Yeah, yeah, if I can go back and do it again, I would.

I would have put...

I would have put financial systems in place sooner. One of my biggest learning curves, one of the hardest lessons I learned was on the financial end. Was, you know, I didn't know what I didn't know. I hired, I had bookkeepers who also didn't know that I just sort of assumed, I assumed that a bookkeeper knew what they were doing. It turns out the vast majority of them do not when it comes to property management.

It's a very, very tricky financial situation as an agent who taking money in trust and understanding that. I went through four bookkeepers. If I, so if I could go back in time, I think I wish I could have learned that lesson, like either myself or found the person who specifically understood property management, financial recordation. And I think that would have saved me

Hundreds of thousands of dollars in headache and heartache over the years. Took me a long time to really figure it out. And I gotta be honest with you, even my current business partner is the CFO. And he's the one that I brought in years ago. A couple of years ago, he cleaned everything up. Even us, with that knowledge and understanding how it should go, it's work. It's still.

Jon Fidero
Something that requires a lot of management because there's so many moving pieces. It's one of the most difficult aspects to property management, I would say. People are really nothing at the end, when it comes to it. It's really that financial side that's been such a bear. But we're over that and we're poised for growth and excited for the future.

Stephen Fox
Awesome. Thank you so much for your time, John. Really appreciate it. For anyone that wants to connect with you, where would be the best place?

Jon Fidero
Our website, the one that Upkeep has for us, it's rentwithvesta.com. And there's a form there that goes directly to me and you'll get a call from me as soon as you fill out that form within a half an hour or less. I'm pretty much on top of that. It's my full-time job. It's just bringing in homeowners and maintaining that relationship.

Thank you, Stephen. Appreciate the opportunity.