The Pattie Gentile Show as heard on WADK Radio Ep 35

Pattie Gentile's "Fighting the Good Fight Podcast" is now a weekly radio program! Heard Saturday evening's at 6 and again Sunday morning at 10 at www.wadk.com or 1540AM Newport RI.

Host Patricia Gentile continues "Defending Taxpayers & Solving Their Tax Problems". With this new format, The Pattie Gentile Show will be your weekly appointment with Host Pattie Gentile & her guest experts as they discuss the latest tax news, issues and cutting-edge strategies to resolve and prevent tax problems.

Here on episode 35, our guest is Justin B. Miller, MBA
The Nation's #1 Choice for Winning Direct Mail Campaigns! Author of Jurassic Marketing. 

Enjoy and tune in on WADK.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:05

Welcome everyone to the Patty Gentiles Show. And in studio with me, as always, is my producer, John Ianuzi. And considering that we just came off of the Memorial Day weekend, and I know I have felt the lack of one day because I took Monday off, and I've been off because of that, and having to double up what I normally do in five days and four. Did that affect you as well this week, John?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

You know, it's funny because last week we talked, I think maybe it was last week or the week before, we talked about when I was doing overnight shifts and how that screwed up my rhythms.

SPEAKER_05 0:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Monday, I really soaked in Memorial Day by not leaving the couch. And that also messed me up. First of all, I was off a day all week. You know, I I felt like I was behind. Tuesday I felt was Monday, Tuesday was so on and so forth. And and now here I am at the end of the week, and the list of things I have to do is just anxiety-inducing.

SPEAKER_06 1:20

But actually, I saw I saw your list, your to-do list on your notepad there, and it definitely could give anybody anxiety. Matter of fact, we acknowledged two shows ago the night workers' day on May 13th. So that's what you were referring to last weekend. We talked about the fact that more often than not, Memorial Weekend tends to be raw and rainy in our area, of course, of the uh Northeast and New England states and the weather. All right, so now that you chilled out and you fell behind, and yeah, I see you're listening.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

I feel behind and I fell behind. But yeah, one thing I did do was check in with our morning man here on WADK, and I phoned into the Bruce Newberry experience. Then Bruce and I had a had a nice chat this week on the air. Uh, I called to promote our show, remind folks that you can hear the Patty Gentel show on Saturdays and Sundays. And Bruce was kind enough to tell me, hey, listen, I understand that you were put off by the weather Memorial Day and the weather this coming weekend's gonna dip down into the 50s, you know, it's not gonna be great.

SPEAKER_05 2:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

And Bruce was like, listen, there's a ton of stuff still to do in and around the WADK listening area. And some of the tips that he gave me, I was unaware of. Were you aware that the International Tennis Hall of Fame is in Newport?

SPEAKER_06 3:02

No, I had no idea.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Yep. He that is a great visit. He said it's a great way to spend an afternoon. Uh he reminded us of all of the historic homes and mansions.

SPEAKER_05 3:14

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Which my wife has been on me for, I don't know, now two, three years to we're way overdue to do a visit of the Newport mansions. Uh there's a great show on HBO called The Gilded Age that's that's recorded primarily right there in Newport, and you can tour some of those homes.

SPEAKER_06 3:35

Do you think your your daughter would be interested?

SPEAKER_01 3:39

I do. My only concern is that at seven, she's got those curious hands, and I can't afford to replace anything that she breaks at one of these historic homes. So I'd be a little worried about that.

SPEAKER_06 3:55

Umurs though.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Oh, they're incredible. Yeah, yeah. We did them many, many, many years ago. And that's how my conversation with Bruce started was that we stayed at the Hotel Viking one labor day and it rained the entire time. And I said we were in an you know under an umbrella on the beach, and it was beautiful, but it wasn't what I paid top dollar to do. And he was like, Listen, tell Patty, tell the audience, these are the things you want to do. And the third thing he said, Patty, and this is kind of sacred religion, also piggybacks on what our guest last week, Cajun Mike had to say, right? The lobster rolls. If you go a little south into Connecticut right now, is if you prefer the Connecticut style lobster roll, right now it's peak season. And right yeah, Bruce said just head, you know, head to the mystic New London area and grab yourself a lobzilla, that's what I call it. Not a not Godzilla, but the lobster version of it, the lobzilla, which I think feeds two.

SPEAKER_06 5:02

I well, I'm glad you said that. Feeds two. I love lobster so much that I would eat the to your head, yeah. No, the lobster for two, that and I'd order that on the menu just for me. Yes, I get it. Believe me. I love that. Ooh, thanks. Thanks, uh, Bruce. On that, we could do that in a heartbeat. We could be down there in an hour. An hour, hour and a half, easy. So here's something to know May 26th is National Paper Airplane Day. Did you used to do those in in the classroom as in grade school and throw them at people?

SPEAKER_01 5:41

I'm looking around because somewhere around here is one that we tried to make. My daughter and I tried to make, and it ended up becoming just a fan. We made it, we gave up on the paper airplane and made it into a fan. Not as easy as you think.

SPEAKER_06 5:56

That's funny. Well, well, it's it was National Paper Airplane Day on May 26th, but it was also the birthday of Stevie Nex, one of my favorite all-time musicians and singers. She's both 78 years old.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Can I shout out another show right here on WADK? Sure. I was in the car Wednesday and I was listening to Matt G, who's uh station owner Bonnie Gomes' son, who does a wonderful show Monday through Friday at noon, and he was playing all Stevie Nicks. And at first, and at first, Patty, I got nervous. I said, uh oh, because I remember hearing all Michael Jackson the day he died, and all Jerry Garcia. And I said, uh oh, what's going on? And then I heard Matt say it's her birthday. I said, phew. So WADK did a full hour of Stevie Nick's music uh on Wednesday of this week in honor of her birthday.

SPEAKER_06 6:58

There you go. It was May 26th. May 26th. And in honor, though, of someone who passed away on May 21st. I am a true NASCAR fan. I love all uh of the NASCAR series races, and unfortunately and shockingly, NASCAR Cup Series champion Kyle Bush passed away completely unexpectedly. He had severe pneumonia that led into sepsis. The next thing you know, there's an announcement at the end of the day on Thursday, May 21st, that he had passed. I bring this up because I loved how NASCAR on Memorial Weekend, every Memorial Weekend, they actually do just this all out military honor and remembrance at the Charlotte Motor Speedway, the Coca-Cola 600, the longest race that the Cup Series will race all year. And it's it's a tradition every single year there. And they honored Kyle Bush amazingly. There were so many stories, all kinds of people, uh, from drivers who he mentored to crew chiefs that he had to car owners that he drove for. And everybody talked about the man outside the car. Of course, everybody talked about the type of racer he was. So I'm going to ask those of you who would like to text us at 603-204-0104. Do you follow NASCAR? And even if Kyle Bush wasn't your favorite driver, if instead he beat your favorite driver and you weren't happy about that, please let me know though, your thoughts and about how you felt and what your thoughts were about Kyle Bush. I'd love to hear those from you if you haven't had anybody to be able to share that with, just share it with us at 603-204-0104. I also want to mention that coming up on this show, this show is as full as usual, is taxpayer bill of rights number three coming up after the break. And as I mentioned, right up until July 4th, the 250th birthday of the United States of America, I am doing the IRS's taxpayer bill of rights. We have 10 of those just like we do in our Declaration of Independence, and which we have our 10 Bill of Rights there. In this segment, we are going to discuss the taxpayer bill of rights number three, and that is the right to pay no more than the correct amount of tax. Before I get into that, I just want to mention that the taxpayer bill of rights that we have with the IRS is a cornerstone document. It highlights the 10 fundamental rights taxpayers have when dealing with the Internal Revenue Service. And the IRS wants every taxpayer to be aware of these rights in the event they need to work with the IRS on a personal tax matter or a business tax matter, by the way. The IRS continues to publicly highlight these rights to the taxpayer. And really, who does that is actually the taxpayer advocate of the IRS. And I'll explain more about the advocate service. The IRS states that it regularly reminds its employees about these rights and it expects employees to understand and apply taxpayer rights throughout every encounter with the taxpayers. And that's great. But I'm the reason why I like to review them is so that we as taxpayers know what our rights are. I think it's very important for us to know that. Getting back to the taxpayer advocate service, you can find these rights on irs.gov, but the taxpayer advocates website, which is taxpayeradvocate one, all one word.irs.gov, is on their homepage in the upper right corner. You click into taxpayer bill of rights. And the descriptions there are very clear of what each right means for you. And the taxpayer bill of rights here, you know, the IRS only adopted them in 2014. They were proposed by the former national taxpayer advocate Nina Olson, where it applies to all taxpayers in their dealings with the IRS. And the taxpayer bill of rights here groups the existing rights that are in the tax code into 10 fundamental rights and makes them clear, understandable, and accessible. So the taxpayer advocate service, their mission is that they're an independent organization within the IRS and they help taxpayers resolve problems and they recommend changes that will prevent problems to the IRS. So there is a semi-annual taxpayer advocate report to Congress that you can also find on the taxpayer advocates website where you can see what they're acknowledging that's going well with the IRS and taxpayers, and what they're recommending as uh changes to prevent problems. So the 10 taxpayer bill of rights, the right to be informed. We started this number one, two shows ago, the right to quality service was last week's show. Today we'll discuss the right to pay no more than the correct amount of tax, the right to challenge the IRS's position and be heard will be next week, the right to appeal an IRS decision in an independent forum, the right to finality, the right to privacy, the right to confidentiality, the right to retain representation, which I think it should be first, and lastly the right to a fair and just tax system. So, number three here, the right to pay no more than the correct amount of tax. What this means for you is that the IRS is proposing to adjust the amount of tax you owe, and you will typically be sent a statutory notice of deficiency. This is if the IRS is proposing to adjust the amount of tax you owe. It informs you of the proposed change. And this notice provides you with a right to challenge the proposed adjustment in tax court, United States tax court without first paying the proposed adjustment. To exercise this right, you must file a petition with the tax court within 90 days of the date of the notice being sent. This is a statutory notice of deficiency, your ticket to tax court, and it's in the internal revenue code. Also, if you're an individual taxpayer eligible for low-income taxpayer clinic assistance, this is what the right to pay no more than the correct amount of tax, you can get that assistance. If you believe you have overpaid your taxes, you can file a refund claim asking for the money back within certain time limits. You may request that any amount owed be removed if it exceeds the correct amount due under the law. If the IRS has assessed it after the period allowed by law, or if the assessment was done in error or violation of the law, and this is in the Internal Revenue Code. You may request that the IRS remove any interest from your account that was caused by the IRS's unreasonable errors or delays. For example, if the IRS delays issuing a statutory notice of defense, excuse me, deficiency because the assigned employee was away for several months attending training and the interest accrues during this time period. The IRS uh may abate the interest as a result of the delay. If you have a legitimate doubt that you owe part or all of the tax debt, you can submit a settlement offer called the offer and compromise doubt as to liability. You'll receive an annual notice from the IRS stating the amount of the tax due, which will help you check that all payments you're making, if you're on an installment payment agreement, were received and correctly applied. And even if you're not on an installment agreement, well, that's when you get the annual notice. If you still have a balance owed and you're on you're making installment payments, if you enter into a payment plan, known as an installment agreement, the IRS must send you an annual statement that provides how much you owe at the beginning of the year, how much you paid during the year, and how much you still owe at the end of the year. So this is where you can this will help you check all payments that were made, uh, that they were received and correctly applied to the tax year and for the tax form that you're applying it towards. So our guest in the next segment is Justin Miller. And he's the founder of Jurassic Marketing and the author of Jurassic Marketing: How to Create a Big Bang in Your Business with Modern Direct Mail. Justin helps businesses stand out in a crowded digital world using direct mail strategies that actually get noticed from newsletters and referral campaigns to high impact marketing systems. Justin's known for making old school marketing, which is what direct mail is considered right now, feel fresh, fun, and incredibly effective. So come on back because I know you're going to get some good tips about doing direct mail. This is Patricia Gentile, founder of New England Tax Relief and host of the Patty Gentile Show. A client once wrote me, quote, My husband and I found ourselves in debt to the IRS for $167,000. I had contacted a company that said they would help. After I paid them $6,000, I found out that they took my money and ran. I was desperate and searched for a local tax attorney and found Patricia. She was able to get our tax debt reduced to $36,000. End quote. The moral of that story is that you really need to be able to trust the person you choose to represent you with the IRS. With over 43 years of combined experience as a taxpayer, defense attorney, and CPA, I have successfully resolved hundreds of difficult IRS situations. One-on-one, personal attention is the hallmark of my representation, and my strategies are customized to your specific needs to completely resolve your IRS issues. So go to my website, New England Taxrelief.com, and schedule a free telephone consultation or call me at 1-800-880-8388, where a live person will always answer and take your message 24-7. Welcome back, everyone, from the break. This is the Patty Gentile Show. And as I mentioned before the break, joining us today is Justin Miller. He's the founder of Jurassic Marketing and author of Jurassic Marketing How to Create a Big Bang in Your Business with Modern Direct Mail. And that's why I wanted to have Justin on because to me, and he has said to me that he He's known for making old school marketing feel fresh, fun, and incredibly effective. So, Justin, welcome. Thank you for being on the show today.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Thanks. Happy to be here. We're keeping the uh dinosaurs and the direct mail alive.

SPEAKER_06 22:14

I love that. Yeah, that actually give us your story about how you even came to being such a your logo, being a dinosaur, your business name being Jurassic Marketing.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Yeah, so it wasn't always that way. I've always been in the small business world, but not in the dinosaur direct mail side of it. Uh, I actually ran an entertainment business for a couple decades prior to this, and uh then consulted within those industries on marketing uh and ultimately uh became a digital marketer first. So uh if anyone thinks that direct mail is dead, you're you're listening to someone that started as a digital guy and moved backwards and devolved over to the direct mail side. Um, and the dinosaurs kind of came along with it as a happy accident. I was trying to jazz up a presentation to make direct mail a little more entertaining. And uh, what do dinosaurs and direct mail have in common? Everyone thinks they're both dead. So we're resurrecting dinosaurs here. Direct mail is alive if done smartly for small business owners. Um, if they kind of copy what they see in their mailbox, they're probably gonna go bankrupt. Um, but as a general format, never really died. And it's actually on a comeback for industries where the math works because people are longing for real these days. They're longing for connection. Uh, and I think that's only gonna get more and more urgent and pulling as you know, AI continues to dominate other fields. So this is one media that it's tangible, it's real, it's in people's lives. You can feel it, touch it, hold it. So I think that's uh out the gate why it's still working and and why we're seeing that.

SPEAKER_06 24:00

I I love your newsletter. So, how how would you recommend to somebody to even get started?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Sure, sure. Well, you mentioned the newsletter. Uh, a newsletter is something that is very important for building established relationships and growing them further. So you're getting that because you and I had connected somewhere previously.

SPEAKER_05 24:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

So once you've connected into our world, we continue to mail you the newsletter monthly for a few reasons. Number one is just to remind you we exist because maybe right now wasn't the right time to buy. So, you know, buy now is not the majority of what we do uh when we're marketing for our clients. Um, we're trying to build relationships, and that involves fun. We're connecting with human beings, not businesses, right? We are sending to businesses, but we're connecting with the human being there. So also in that newsletter, you'll notice there's jokes, there's comics, there's something interactive like a crossword or a sudoku. Um, we want it to be engaging. Uh, you know what we do when you need it. You know, we'll get a chance. The newsletter's not going to sell it for us, but it should get us the contact point. So, primarily what we're doing with direct mail is we're we're building relationships. We're opening relationship doors first, and then we're growing that. Uh, and ultimately, obviously, we want as a business owner, we want a sale, we want money to fall out at the end, but it's not the first step. Um, so if you were to go to your mailbox right now, you'd see probably very little mail in it, right? If you go to your email box, you're gonna see like thousands. It drives me nuts. Some people have 5,000 unrid emails, but I digress. Uh, if we go to our mailbox right now, in a typical day, I'll get, you know, maybe a newspaper style ad circular for, you know, hardware store or home improvement store. Um, might get a couple postcards in there, maybe some political mail, might get a credit card offer or two or insurance. Uh, and that's about it. Uh, if we're lucky, occasionally we might get an actual greeting card from someone, maybe a holiday card, something like that. Uh, even less and less on that. So we're trying to come in and mimic that personal relational piece. You know, sometimes we actually do use greeting cards, but we're taking the emotion from that piece, and that that's what we're doing. We're trying to send real relationship pieces, and it takes a few different forms. So, newsletters, one. Uh, another one is just hunting down people that can refer business to you. So, you know, I'll I'll take an example out of your world. So if I'm running a tax practice um or a tax problem-related practice, you know, I want to mail to people that know people that have those problems. You know, now you and I know that like a lot of people in the general public do, but we got to get a little more focused than that to be able to afford that stamp to put on the letter. So maybe we go to people that maybe they're bookkeepers, maybe they prepare taxes. You know, they're somewhere in that financial chain. And if I have a problem, that's who they ask. So we have a waterproofing company we work with, residential waterproofing. You know, depending upon where you're at in the country, you do or don't have this. But um, so we do referral campaigns to real estate agents and uh inspectors and home inspectors uh to open that relationship and then send newsletters and drive it further. So these are things people don't typically think about with direct mail. They think, hey, it's a letter, it's gonna sell me something, it's gonna tell me to call and buy. And that's like it's great if it works, but it's not the majority of what's working right now.

SPEAKER_06 27:32

Is there anything else you'd recommend uh to business owners to really be aware of or patient about if they are going to do a direct mail, maybe newsletter or direct mail campaign, marketing campaign?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Sure, sure. Uh I guess number one piece of advice was know what outcome you're seeking. So there's nothing wrong with the try and make sale outcome, but we know that we have to take a different course of action to get there. We have to you know narrow in very tightly on who we send to, and the offer's got to be very solid and everything. Uh, if the offer is to build a relationship over time, you know, we know we have to first open that door. And after we've opened that door, we have to maintain and build that position. And oftentimes, you know, frequent communication, repetitive. I guess that's another thing that we didn't say is you can't do it once and disappear. That's that's not how this works. That's like meeting someone at a cocktail party and never talking to them again and expecting them to refer a business. Yeah, maybe by blind luck, but not as a business marketing strategy. So frequency building over time and knowing what you're trying to accomplish, and of course, tracking it. You know, uh, some of these are easier to track than others, but we have a lot of media available to us on the digital side to be able to track. And I would encourage people to do that because oftentimes that's less than the cost of the stamp. Um, the most important part here typically is the stamp, by the way. Our government should be thrilled that we're sharing this, or at least the post office should be.

SPEAKER_06 29:00

I did notice in uh your May newsletter that you were also talking about why video marketing is so effective. Can you elaborate on that?

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah, look, so I'm a provider of direct mail, but as a business owner myself, I'm kind of media agnostic, meaning I'll use whatever works. Um, so you will see us, of course, sending direct mail for our business, but you're also gonna see us online. We're doing social content, we have a podcast, we do short form snippets, we do video, we do audio. Um, it's not to say you have to be everywhere. You do have to pick and choose what works for your clients, but you know, on a video format, obviously we can connect in a different manner. Um, and it's some of that trust element again. The the challenge is everyone goes to digital first. So uh it's a very crowded marketplace to play in.

SPEAKER_06 29:55

Ah, makes sense. And you also have different types of marketing strategies, even for the mail, not just we've mentioned, I've mentioned here the newsletter. Um, could you mention a few of those strategies? Like I've I've heard of postcards.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Yeah, of course. I mean, there are postcards. There's a service from the USPS called Everydoor Direct Mail that we use fairly heavily in different industries. Um, you know, there's there's fundraising, there's nonprofit, there's catalogs and booklets and magazines. We do an annual magazine for ourselves, which may sound a little weird. We aren't like we don't have like a catalog of buy this for $400 and buy this for $50, but we do have a magazine that highlights our services, and and that's a piece that sticks around. So if you find yourself in a business that has a long sales cycle, uh a magazine can often sit on someone's desk for six months or more. It's quite amazing, even to me as a marketer. A lot of this stuff I didn't believe till we tracked it. Um, I didn't believe someone necessarily would call from a newsletter. I thought it was just building the relationship, but putting a phone number on there and tracking it, sure enough, someone that should have had the other phone number called the one from the newsletter. So um there's all kinds of formats, and in fact, there's too many to mention. You know, there's there's boxes, there's lumpy stuff where we put a little pen or a grabber or something in there. There's all kinds of things you can do with direct mail. I would encourage a listener to focus on what intended outcome they want first, and then they can kind of back into the budget that would support that. You know, how much can we afford to spend to get someone to call about that particular service or product? And then that kind of forces your hand on what type of piece you can mail.

SPEAKER_06 31:34

Justin, how can people get in touch with you?

unknown 31:37

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

So if you just want to learn a little more practical advice about direct mail, uh, you can buy the book Jurassic Marketing on Amazon. It's like four or five dollars. Uh, if you want to learn more about our company, it's jurassicmarketing.com. We have some videos up there as well, or you can find our podcast.

SPEAKER_06 31:51

Justin, I really appreciate you coming on and providing some really good insight to such a marketing strategy of using mail. Uh as well as, like you said, there is a place for the video marketing for sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Thanks a lot, hey.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 32:36

And in our last segment here, I like to call it my coaching corner, where I provide guidance and tips and strategies for both taxpayers and tax professionals who are helping their clients with tax problems. And this is part two of what I started with on last weekend's coaching corner, which was last weekend I covered when you should take action with the IRS. And this week I'm covering when you should not take action with the IRS. And I want to mention that the option not to take action exists when, for example, taxes have not been assessed. So you wouldn't contact the IRS if taxes haven't been assessed yet. Now you can be somebody that knows that you're going to have a balance owed, or you filed with a balance owed, or you haven't filed your return yet, and you have a balance owed that you know you haven't paid, but don't call the IRS. Same thing with the tax professionals helping their clients who may have a similar problem, or you're waiting, something's been filed, and you're waiting for uh it to be processed and notices to start coming, but until it's been processed, taxes have not been assessed. So don't take any action with the IRS. Don't take any action with the IRS uh when there's no revenue officer involved and there hasn't been a final notice of intent to levy, that a final notice of intent to levy has not been sent. So when that notice hasn't been sent, you don't contact the IRS and regarding, for example, if you're concerned they may levy your account or the tax professional you're concerned that your client could be levied. Until you get that final notice of intent by the IRS to levy, don't contact them. Also, when you should not take action with the IRS, is when the statute of limitations is running. And what that means is that the IRS generally has 10 years from the date your tax was assessed to collect the tax and any associated penalties and interest from you. So this period is what's called the collection statute or expiration date or the statute of limitations for the IRS to be able to collect. But I will say here that there's a variety of laws that affect this collection statute expiration date, and more than one action or situation can change this 10-year collection period by suspending it or extending it. Therefore, it delays the collection statute or expiration date when it's expired that the IRS can collect from you. Certain events can suspend or extend it. Since by law now, certain events prohibit the IRS from collecting tax, they literally toll or stop the statute of limitations from running. So you don't take action necessarily right away with the IRS when the statute of limitations or this collection statute of 10 years is running. Hold off and strategize and see where it is. Are you five years into the 10 years? Are you eight years into the 10 years of the collection statute and it's going to expire in two years? You want to be careful about the strategies so that certain actions one may take can toll this collection statute expiration date. Also, when you should not take action with the IRS, is when the taxpayer cannot afford to make payments and they don't qualify for an offering compromise. Taxpayer financial situation will be getting worse. That's another consideration for not contacting the IRS right away because there is a foreseeable financial situation getting worse in the future. Maybe that's the time you could contact the IRS. If a taxpayer can full pay, you want them to pay the most recent years first, so you wouldn't take any action yet and contact the IRS until that happens. And if a taxpayer needs time to file old returns, prior year returns, or get current with estimated tax payments, you don't want to contact the IRS until those returns are filed or the estimated tax payments of the current year have been brought up to date. Also, when you should not take action with the IRS, is for example, if your balance due is over a million dollars, and in order to work with the automated collection service, you need to get the balance that's owed under a million. If you want to get the balance under $250,000 to get an easier installment agreement, so don't contact the IRS until you can get your balance under $250,000. And you want to get a balance under $50,000 to do an installment agreement and avoid a lien. One of the simple payment plans is where you have a liability that's up to $50,000, and it does not require collection information statement. It does not require payments through direct debit of your account. It doesn't require tax lien determination by the IRS, whether they're going to determine to place a tax lien or not, doesn't require that determination, and it doesn't require managerial approval. So these are a few reasons why you wouldn't contact the IRS right away. What I do want to state is that all cases are different. So you have to treat each one individually if you're a tax professional. And as a taxpayer and a tax professional, make the decision to hold back or move forward with the IRS based on the best interests of the taxpayer. And please, tax professionals, keep your clients informed of your plan and any changes to your plan. I want to mention that in upcoming shows, we're going to have a guest, a 40-year veteran of the Internal Revenue Service, actually discuss how to avoid IRS paid preparer due diligence penalties. This is very important. Also, a professor out in a university in Minnesota who is a professor in AI. And I thought it was time to review exactly what AI is, the type of consumer or practitioner platforms that are out there, and really how to use this AI ethically if you're a professional and you're using AI, as well as what are the top productivity uses of AI? So make sure you stay tuned. And until our next show, have a great week.