The Pattie Gentile Show as heard on WADK Radio Ep 36

Pattie Gentile's "Fighting the Good Fight Podcast" is now a weekly radio program! Heard Saturday evening's at 6 and again Sunday morning at 10 at www.wadk.com or 1540AM Newport RI.

Host Patricia Gentile continues "Defending Taxpayers & Solving Their Tax Problems". With this new format, The Pattie Gentile Show will be your weekly appointment with Host Pattie Gentile & her guest experts as they discuss the latest tax news, issues and cutting-edge strategies to resolve and prevent tax problems.

Here on episode 36, our guest John Taylor Kelshaw, EA, an IRS registered tax preparer.

Enjoy and tune in on WADK.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:02

Welcome everyone. This is the Patty Gentel Show, and in studio with me as always is my producer, John Ayanuzi. And John, I wanted to ask you because Rhode Island and Massachusetts were two of the states on the weekend of May 30th and the 31st that felt this uh meteor shockwave. Uh did you feel it?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

You're in Connecticut, but we did not, however, the videos that friends just a little farther north of us sent from their ring cam and trail cams, right? You know, these days everything is caught on camera somewhere. True. And it's just incredible to watch the camera shake and the dogs react and you know, plates falling off. It looks like video that you would watch of an earthquake.

SPEAKER_05 1:03

Oh, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

But I have to admit, meteor was not on my you know, bingo card. And this thing found its way into the water right off of Cape Cod.

SPEAKER_05 1:16

Yes, and I also had heard that even on the I think it was the east coast of New Hampshire. So it was along the coastline, you know, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New Hampshire was all along the coastline.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

What I find interesting is that the remnants of this meteor will probably most likely be fished out of the water. There's already people trying to figure out how to get this thing out and to study it.

SPEAKER_05 1:48

So yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

You know, just another incredible, like I said, something that you definitely didn't expect, and it could end up being uh, I don't know, a learning experience.

SPEAKER_05 2:00

Oh, yeah. I I look forward to hearing about those who find a piece here or there, and then of course the studying after that. That'd be great.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

It's shallow enough water that they feel confident they could, you know, fish this thing out.

SPEAKER_05 2:14

Oh, that'd be great. That'd be cool. Yeah. Uh we like to talk about notable dates here, and since this is the first weekend of the month of June, I want to mention, and I know it's before next Saturday's show, but Sunday, June 14th is flag day. And what I want to mention about that is that on May 29th last week, Rhode Island celebrated statehood day, where they became the 13th state to ratify the United States Constitution, and therefore they were the 13th star of the original 13 colonies on the first national United States flag. So shout out to Rhode Island. And for those of you who are not aware, we are broadcasting out of WADK in Newport, Rhode Island. So I wanted to give a shout out to them in celebrating their statehood day.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Uh going back to Flag Day, real quick, I was I joined the benevolent protective order of the Elks.

SPEAKER_05 3:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

As a young man, and I joined to spend more time with my dad because he would always play cards at the Elks. So I joined as a as a youngster, I joined the Elks. And one of the things that we used to always say was that we were the first to observe Flag Day as a fraternal organization. And I always assume that was just these old timers making things up because they do make some stuff up, believe me. However, I just checked it, and it is true. The tradition began in 1907, and the Elks hold a unique place in U.S. history as the first fraternal organization to observe Flag Day.

SPEAKER_05 4:07

Oh, wow. So there you go, thinking that those uh old guys are just uh some of the stuff was definitely fake, but this was true. Yeah, bragging it up there. We'll talk more uh next week's show about Flag Day in the United States. I have a great little gazette here, monthly gazette that I get from my mother's assisted living community, and I get some great, great information off of that. Another thing about the month of June is and coming from this gazette, it's the great outdoors month. I have to tell you that this is what's going on in the month of June that I'm aware of that's all about the great outdoors on June 3rd that just passed was bike travel day. In the week of June 6th through the 14th is national fishing and boating week, and of course, from the week of June 13th through the 21st is the 103rd annual Laconia, New Hampshire motorcycle week. It's the oldest national bike rally in the United States, and I will be there. My husband and I.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Well, how could you not? As an enthusiast and someone who lives close by, you got it, right?

SPEAKER_05 5:35

Oh, yeah. We'll be bringing our bikes, we'll be riding our bikes, we're camping way up closer to the uh north of Laconia. We'll be in between the White Mountains and Laconia. So we're right in the middle, so that we'll ride our bikes up in the uh White Mountains and we'll ride our bikes down to Wears Beach in Laconia and celebrate. So here's the poll question. Would love to hear from people. Text us at 603-204-0104. The poll question or questions here is what are your great outdoors activities? And out of that, what is your favorite? Do you have any?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Uh from for me, camping is right up there and followed closely by fishing and hiking. And I have already caught two bass this young season.

SPEAKER_05 6:32

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

And do you know what I do you know what I do before I release them? This was taught to me by an old another old timer.

SPEAKER_05 6:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Gotta give them a smooch. What do you do? Give them a kiss before you release it. Yuck. They're very slimy. I'm not gonna lie. They're very slimy. I can't I give them a smooch on top of the head and put them back in the pond and probably catch them again in a few weeks.

SPEAKER_05 6:57

What what's that supposed to do?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Well, just listen, it's we admire and and revere and respect them. So after we after I pull the hook out of its lip, I give it a smooch and send it on its way.

SPEAKER_05 7:11

Okay, so I'm gonna add another poll question here. Does anybody out there we please text right? And we I'm not kidding, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

I I I am being 100% honest here.

SPEAKER_05 7:22

Oh, I know you're not kidding. This is why I'm just uh I'm a little flabbergasted here, but please let us know at 603-204-0104. If you fish, and before you take your catch off the hook, do you kiss it and throw it back into the water? As John was taught as a as a youngster. I I will mention one more date, notable date, that is not happening, that we had mentioned earlier, and I f uh found this out on um you know reading that Taylor Swift's Rhode Island house wedding is not happening on June 13th. It's right now in New York Papers on page six. It's going to be July 3rd in possibly an arena type venue in New York City. But uh, John, what about some new subscribers?

SPEAKER_00 8:24

In our last couple of minutes here, there are a couple of folks that I want to shout out, and that is first off, our friends in Ashburn. I don't know who you folks are, but there's a really strong contingent who are loyal downloaders every week, and we thank you, and we got to get down there. That's pretty much the Mason Dixon line, right? That's that's where it becomes the southern uh the southeast. The other complete direction, Newberry Port Mass. Yeah when my wife lived in Beverly Farms, Newberry Port was the gem of that part of the Northeast, you know, certainly of Northern Mass.

SPEAKER_05 9:06

Well, and Beverly Farms is really nice up there too. I haven't been up in either one of those towns in quite some time.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

I there's a beach where the way the sand is, it squeaks. So when you walk on it, it sounds like you're walking on almost like rubber.

SPEAKER_05 9:23

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Yeah, squeaking sand beach. That's what the locals used to call it.

SPEAKER_05 9:28

Oh, that I wasn't aware of.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

I'll send that to you too. I see, I'm teaching a lot of stuff this week.

SPEAKER_05 9:33

You are the kiss the fish thing is a trip, though.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

I looked it up, it's it's very common.

SPEAKER_05 9:39

Mentioning um New Hampshire Motor Speedway and the NASCAR, I did get a text from a gentleman, Matthew, from Stamford, Connecticut. We had last week I I stated if anybody wanted to text and talk about their memories of Kyle Bush, uh the NASCAR Cup Series champion who passed away suddenly a couple of weeks ago. His memories of him, he's stating here, was not just that he was a great NASCAR driver, but he was an excellent business person and a philanthropist. And he had one of the largest Chevrolet dealerships in the country. He loved hot rotting. Matthew mentioned that Kyle Bush had a 56 Chevy pickup. That must have been beautiful, and a 2024 Camaro ZL one. But also him and his wife, they had a charity called The Bundle of Joy. And that charity helped prospective parents in need of IVF treatments because that's what Samantha, his wife, and him had to go through, and they they had a tough time. Anything else here, John, before we uh go into commercial break?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Just that you know, what a spectacular life lived in such a short amount of time. Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:02

Um, so come on back, everyone, and we are going to proceed with our taxpayer bill of rights number four.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

And you were on the days when you feel spectrum.

SPEAKER_05 11:38

Welcome back, everyone. This is the Patty Gentle Show. And while we were in the middle of our break, John mentioned to me that we do have a listener who did have a tax question that I really wanted to answer right now before we go on to the taxpayer bill of rights number four and talk about that. So, so John, will you um read that that question?

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Yes. So this is Jason from Bennington, Vermont. Right. In full disclosure, I know this gentleman. Uh in 2024, he owed on the federal, he arranged a payment plan monthly.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

All right.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

In 25, you he received a small refund, right? Which he got a notice was applied to the balance. Now his question was does that count as this month's payment?

SPEAKER_05 12:37

That's a great question, Jason, and thank you for uh listening on on Facebook. We thank our social media listeners, we appreciate that as well. I thought it was important to answer your question now before we moved on with the rest of the show, because I don't know when your next installment agreement payment due date is, and I wanted to make sure that you plan on making your monthly payment as scheduled, even though the IRS did apply your 2025 federal refund to your tax debt of 2024, you are still under your installment agreement required to make that payment timely, the monthly payment. So just make sure you budget for it. Uh sorry, it couldn't be in place of that refund application, couldn't be in place of this month's payment, but make sure you you uh stay in compliance with that agreement. So what we've been doing is weekly approaching up to July 4th of 2026, our the United States 250th birthday. I've been covering and I will be covering the rest of the taxpayers' bill of rights. We have 10 of those that the IRS adopted these uh bill of rights. They were proposed by the former national taxpayer advocate, Nina Olson, and the IRS adopted them in 2014. And it applies to all taxpayers in their dealings with the IRS. The taxpayer bill of rights groups the existing rights in the tax code. These rights are in the tax code, it groups them into 10 fundamental rights and makes them clear, understandable, and accessible. And the IRS states here that this is a cornerstone document that highlights the 10 fundamental rights taxpayers have when dealing with the Internal Revenue Service. So we are on taxpayer bill of rights number four this week, and that's the right to challenge the IRS's position and be heard. And it states here that the taxpayers have the right to raise objections and provide additional documentation in response to formal IRS actions or proposed actions, to expect that the IRS will consider their timely objections and documentation promptly and fairly and to receive a response if the IRS does not agree with their position. So, what does this mean for you? It means that if you submit documentation or raise objections during an examination and the IRS does not agree with your position, it will issue you a statutory notice of deficiency explaining why it is increasing your tax. And this notice gives you the right to petition the United States tax court prior to paying the tax. So you don't have to pay to play. If you're an individual and you're eligible for a low-income taxpayer clinic assistance, the IRS may provide information to you about your eligibility for assistance from an LITC. I suggest that you go to IRS's website, irs.gov, and actually uh search on the homepage publication 4134 about the low-income taxpayer clinic list near you. You'll find one near you. If you're notified by the IRS that it has adjusted your return because of a mathematical or clerical error, you have 60 days to tell the IRS that you disagree. And if the IRS is not persuaded, it will issue you a statutory notice of deficiency proposing a tax adjustment. And once again, this notice provides you with a right to challenge the proposed adjustment in United States tax court, and you will have 90 days within the date of the notice to file that petition. Before the IRS takes its first enforcement action to collect a tax debt by levying, for example, your bank account, the IRS must generally provide you with an opportunity for a hearing as well before an independent IRS appeals or settlement officer. And at that hearing, you can raise alternatives to the IRS's collection action and may even be able to challenge whether you actually owe the tax or not. So our guest after the break is actually a his name is John Kelshaw, and he has worked for the IRS for 40 years. He no longer works for them, but I looked at his resume and he has held eight different positions over those 40 years with the IRS, anywhere from being uh an IRS revenue agent, which we know to be an auditor, to being an appeals officer. Uh he was a union president. His expertise for large case examiner, large case auditing, which are large corporation tax returns, was an international tax. And he's going to be talking really what I wanted him to talk about, because he's definitely somebody in the know about paid tax preparers, due diligence, penalties that are assessed by the IRS. So this is very important to hear from John Kelshaw. So come on back.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

You say I only hear what I want to. You say I talk so all the time. So I thought what I felt, and I thought that I don't belong. And now that I believe it. Now I know that I did something.

SPEAKER_05 20:46

And I'm going to start off with this segment with John's uh presentation on how to avoid IRS paid preparer, due diligence penalties.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

I appreciate it. Uh the due diligence uh penalties are applied or can be applied against paid tax preparers, and they don't have to be an enrolled agent or a CPA or an attorney, they just need to be somebody who prepares tax returns for a fee. Um, and it's section 6659 G of the Internal Revenue Code. And basically, there's four issues involved you know, the earned income tax credit, the child tax credit, and the additional child tax credit, the American Opportunity Tax Credit, and the head of household filing status. There's various rules and things that you have to follow in order to protect yourself from possibly being penalized for not doing what the IRS refers to as quote due diligence.

SPEAKER_05 21:48

So, what actions should preparers take to protect themselves?

SPEAKER_04 21:53

I always say document, document, document, and if you see something, scan it. And I repeat that a lot. As you know from prior seminars, that you want to drill at home because you want to document the case file, or if you have a computer program, what you looked at, the steps you took, the questions that you asked related to those issues that we talked about a minute ago, basically those credits. So you have to document what you did. And if something didn't make sense, there's something known as the three eyes. It's inaccuracy, inconsistencies, and incompleteness. If the client tells you something that meets one of those, it doesn't make sense. It's not the same as last year. You know, they say they have no income, but they got a W-2. You have to ask further questions as to how can that happen? You know, you have a Schedule C, but you have no expenses. How is that possible? And that's one of the issues where a lot of people, if they do try and quote, cheat, what they do is they put income on the Schedule C enough to claim the credit, no expenses, and that they think that gets them out of it. But the problem is the IRS is looking at those things saying, wait a minute, that's a red flag. So you have to document exactly. And if things don't make any sense, you have to go back to the client and say, please explain.

SPEAKER_05 23:15

How will tax preparers know if they are under scrutiny or will be audited by the IRS?

SPEAKER_04 23:21

Uh the general rule is you're going to get a letter. You should get something in the mail saying you've had a problem, we've noticed that you've had a problem with these issues preparing your returns. You have to get your act together. And if it happens again, you're going to get another letter where they're going to say, now we're coming out to visit you. There's also letters that go out if you've, when they've looked at returns, if they see that many of your clients have had problems with the earned income tax credit and adjustments made, they'll let you know that, hey, 20 of your clients had this issue. You prepared the returns. We think there's a problem here. So there's a lot of different things you can do. Now, again, when you're preparing a lot of returns, like a lot of these companies, these big companies do, time is money. So they probably don't have the time to take and look at these things as close as they should. Plus, a lot of the situations they become friends with the clients over the years. So they know what their situation is and they could tell you everything that happened in that person's life. But when the IRS comes in and looks at the case file, if it's not documented in there, none of that matters because you can't go back and add it later. And that's when the problems come in.

SPEAKER_05 24:31

If the paid preparer gets that letter, you know, saying that they're being audited, you know, what should they do?

SPEAKER_04 24:38

If they're not familiar with what they need to do, they should probably contact a representative of some sort and explain their situation. Say, look, this is what I have. If they work for a company, they have to go who's ever in charge of that issue for that company and explain it to them because the company may be on the hook later on if things don't get squared away. But they need to speak to somebody. The worst thing you can do is ignore it.

unknown 25:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

Because if you ignore it, then what'll happen is they'll pull the returns anyway, they'll penalize you anyway, and now you're sitting here with a big penalty and you didn't do anything about it. The number one thing you always have to do when you get a letter from the IRS, make sure you open it. And then you can take steps after that. Now, a lot of people, at least the ones I had, would have a rep with them when they got the audit. It's always better, in my opinion, to sit with the revenue agent in cases like this and explain what you did and why you did it or why you didn't do it. You may have a reason why you didn't do it. With correspondence, you're just sending all those papers to the to that revenue agent, they're going to make a decision based upon that, which isn't really always in your favor, you know. And then what happens is they prepare a report based upon the returns that they look, and if they have a penalty, the report should say they should discuss the report with you when it's issued. That does not always happen, especially now because they the agency lost so many people that I think they have less people doing these, and I think they want to move the cases out, in my opinion. So these you can then go to the manager and say, Okay, I want to speak to the manager. And we that past experience has shown that in these cases, management generally supports what the agent did. All right. So here you are with a report that was never discussed with you that says you owe $30,000. You go to the manager, the manager says, I support it. Now what do you do? Now you have two, you really have two options at that point. You can either pay it, which most people who prepare tax returns for a living aren't rich. Or you can try and go to appeals, IRS Appeals, which is an independent body. We have a different set of eyes looking at it. And people say, Well, should you go to appeals? My answer to that is always yes. I used to be an appeals officer. Why is that? Well, you're not going to come out owing more money, maybe some more interest, but you're not going to come out owning any more tax than when you went in. And there's always a chance that you can get somebody who may be more empathetic to your case, or may look at things a different way, or maybe more willing to cut you a break. You know, everybody's different. Revenue agents are different, appeals offices are different. So it's, I, in my opinion, working there for so many years, it's always better to get a second shot at the Apple than to just say, all right, let me just pay this. Because you may never be able to pay it. Some of the amounts are huge.

SPEAKER_05 27:43

What are the penalty amounts that we could be that a pay-per-bearer could be looking at here?

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Yeah, there's those four issues, and you know, you're looking at you know $2,650 for those particular four issues. So on each return, if you didn't do your due diligence and a revenue agent came in and says you failed it, that's you know, $2,600 in change each return. And if you they do that on 25 returns, you're looking at a bill of $65,000 in penalty. How are you ever going to pay that? And in my personal opinion, being with the IRS for so long and being on the outside, I don't really think that that's fair that you take a tax preparer who there's no standardized training that these tax preparers have to go through. You know, they they're supposed to look up due diligence and take classes on ethics and due diligence, but there's no standardized class that you have to pass or fail. And then they come in, they say that you failed it, and they hit you with these huge penalties. One of the amazing things is though, these penalties get assigned for failures of due diligence, but they're examining the preparer, they're not examining the return. So those returns could be totally correct in theory. Right. They fail the due diligence, so they're getting hit with a $65,000 penalty when those 25 returns could be totally correct.

SPEAKER_05 29:07

Oh, I didn't even think of that. That's what we're talking about here, is due diligence penalty.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Yeah, they're examining the actions taken by the preparer, but they're not looking generally at the returns that they did. Now, of course, if there's something that's weird or they call it L U Q large, unusual, or questionable. That's an IRS term. Okay. LUQ. If you see an L UQ item, then you're probably going to dig further and you may refer the case, or you may pick it up to audit it. But generally, they're not auditing the returns, they're auditing you. So they're putting penalties on you when the return may be correct. So you say to yourself, a lot of people have a hard time with this concept. I did 25 returns. The bottom line is they were all correct, all right. And I'm getting hit with a $65,000 penalty. How do you make sense of that? I don't think you can. Another thing, another thing where they go after preparers is a lot of times uh you prepare one return for the credit, and the facts are the same as the person before me, and then me as your client. So what you do is you cut and paste into that file, into this file. And the IRS cut agent comes in and says, All you did was cut and paste. And then you could read them verbatim what happened. They many times don't accept that. And they just say it's not in the file, you cut and paste it. You're not gonna you're gonna get hit with the penalty.

SPEAKER_05 30:41

Wow. So, what advice can you give to paid preparers to avoid the penalties?

SPEAKER_04 30:50

If you see it, scan it and document, document, document.

SPEAKER_05 30:57

Make sure you listen to us next weekend because John Kelshaw was very generous in allowing me to interview him and actually ask him questions that pull back the curtain on the life at the IRS, you know, revealing inner workings and behind the scene realities and day-to-day culture that usually is hidden from the general public. So you don't want to miss that. You can come on back from the break. A client once wrote me, quote, My husband and I found ourselves in debt to the IRS for $167,000. I had contacted a company that said they would help. After I paid them $6,000, I found out that they took my money and ran. I was desperate and searched for a local tax attorney and found Patricia. She was able to get our tax debt reduced to $36,000. End quote. The moral of that story is that you really need to be able to trust the person you choose to represent you with the IRS. With over 43 years of combined experience as a taxpayer, defense attorney, and CPA, I have successfully resolved hundreds of difficult IRS situations. One-on-one, personal attention is the hallmark of my representation, and my strategies are customized to your specific needs to completely resolve your IRS issues. So go to my website, New EnglandTaxrelief.com, and schedule a free telephone consultation or call me at 1-800-880-8388, where a live person will always answer and take your message 24-7. Welcome back, everyone, from our last segment of the show that I like to call my coaching corner, where I provide information and tips and strategies around tax problems for taxpayers and for tax professionals who are helping their clients with their tax problems. Picking up where we've just left off with John Kelshaw, not only is this about the paid tax preparers' due diligent penalties that the IRS assesses the paid preparers, but I'd like taxpayers listening who actually qualify for tax credits that there's a paid preparers due diligence checklist that they have to prepare and enclose with your federal tax return, and it's form 8867. And they have to answer to this checklist and sign off, and like I just mentioned, include it in your federal tax return. It's a checklist of questions for the earned income credit, the American Opportunity Tax Credit, the Child Tax Credit, including the additional child tax credit, and credit for other dependents and the head of household filing status. If you're a taxpayer that qualifies for any one or more of those types of tax credits or that filing status of head of household, just know your paid preparer has a due diligence checklist, and that's Form 8867. And you can go back and look at your copy of your 2025 tax return and see that included in there. And so, what is due diligence? It's a critical compliance checkpoint that help protect a paid preparer's clients, you, the taxpayer. It helps protect them as the paid preparer. So they're in compliance with the due diligence questions and requirements. It also protects the employer of the paid tax preparer. If they're working for a firm, if they're working for an HR block or a Jackson Hewitt tax preparation service, they're working for a CPA firm, not just working for themselves. So it protects the employer because the employer may also be assessed these paid tax preparer due diligence penalties. And of course, it protects the paid tax preparer's brand, and in other words, their name. So they have to examine and verify taxpayers' IDs and W-2s. I was talking to John Kelshaw off the record, and he was stating when he was the director of compliance after he worked with the IRS, he went and worked as director of compliance for Jackson Hewitt Tax Services. And he said it was mandatory to verify Form 1099s or W 2s and take a look at the IDs of the taxpayer bringing those in to make sure that the picture on the ID is for that person on the Form 1099 and W 2. He said he had situations when they would have the same picture and different IDs for different states and would go to different offices with these different IDs and their picture on it and file fraudulent returns. You know, as John was saying, you have to scan and return documents to your clients. Of course, you can't keep original documentation. So you have to scan IDs and, of course, all tax supporting tax documents, and then you have to determine the correct filing status. So that's basically what due diligence is. Of course, like I said, there's a checklist on Form 8887. But what's the definition of a due diligence failure? And a failure occurs when a preparer does not satisfy required elements, such as completing form 8867 properly, computing the credits using applicable worksheets, making reasonable inquiries when information appears. And as John had said in our previous segment, when information appears, he said the three eyes incorrect, incomplete, or inconsistent, and or not retaining required documentation. So there's a lot there where the IRS looks at what would be a failure in due diligence. And once again, there's four things listed here that they didn't complete Form 8867, which is the paid preparers due diligence checklist. They didn't properly compute the credits, any of these tax credits using applicable worksheets. They didn't make the reasonable inquiries when information appears to be incorrect, incomplete, or inconsistent, and or not retaining required documentation. So John Kelshawk, I asked him, you know, how could paid tax preparers prevent this? And his last three words were document, document, document. And if you see it, he says you document it, and you ask questions, relevant, important questions like who, what, when, where, why, and how? Who are the people involved when a client or a taxpayer is claiming this type of tax? What is their relationship to the taxpayer? When did he, she, or they live with you? Where did this person go to school or work? Why are you entitled, you being the taxpayer, to the claim that they are making for the credit? And how did the taxpayer pay for household expenses? The scanning and returning of documents is uh completely necessary and very important to do that. And how the IRS identifies a high-risk preparer is that the IRS doesn't pick preparers at random. They use a sophisticated return preparer research, and now AI is involved in that as well, to flag the PTINS, PTIN, which is the paid preparer's tax identification number that's on the return, and it's based on digital patterns, like what's IT algorithms, and now of course AI. So if you are a tax return preparer, paid preparer who's concerned about some of the returns you have recently filed for 2025 and you'd like to consult with me about them, please reach out to me at newenglandtaxrelief.com and schedule a complimentary telephone consultation, as well as you can call me directly at 1-800-880 8388. And until our next show, please have a great week.