The Pattie Gentile Show as heard on WADK Radio Ep 41

On this edition of the show, Pattie welcomes friend of the show,
Catherine Tindall, CPA
Catherine has made it her life's work to help Financial Advisors/RIA/IBD control their income tax and file accurate returns as they grow their firms.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Eighteen months ago, a client came to me, Colleen from Warner, New Hampshire. She owed the IRS over two hundred sixty four thousand dollars and didn't know where to turn. I sat down with her personally, reviewed her case, and negotiated directly with the IRS myself. We settled her debt for less than eight thousand thousand hundred dollars. That's why I do this work. If you're carrying the weight of back taxes, call or schedule online for a free confidential consultation at one eight hundred-eight eight zero eight three eight eight or at New England Taxrelief.com. I'm Patricia Gentile at New England Tax Relief. Let's talk. Welcome everyone to the Patty Gentile Show. And in studio with me, as always, is my producer, John Ayanusi. We like to start off with notable dates and events and poll questions. And I want to bring up one that started last week that's become very famous right now because, you know, we all love our pets very much. And this was the poll question. What would you name John's newest little dog? She has spent the first six months of her life in the pound before John's family adopted her. And her name is Index. And why that is, is because if you hadn't listened to our Fourth of July show, which I highly recommend, it was a wonderful show in many ways. The story behind it is that Index was go ahead, John, why don't you tell the story of Index?

SPEAKER_02 1:40

So along with her brother's pencils, paper clips, and eraser, she was found in a box of office supplies, whether it was WP Mason or Staples, whatever it was. And I posted on social media, we were looking for a new name for our new girl. I hashtagged both the shelter and WADK. And I said that last week on the Patty Gentile show, we opened up the program to folks who had suggestions on what her new non-shelter name should be. And Patty, it flooded in. I could not believe the response.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

You put that out on your social media platforms. You use YouTube and Facebook and Threads under Park City Productions.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Correct. And Instagram. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yes, and Instagram. So far, because listeners are listening to the podcast of this show, which we upload every Monday. People are listening at different time periods. We're going to keep this open a little bit longer. This poll about a new name for index. Now, like John mentioned to me, the issue is she has been answering to that name. You can see her pictures, and people are immediately responding. As soon as they see her picture, they know what they would name her. I received on text, and here's the show number to text us at 603-204-0104. One text came in immediately for Daisy. Or even Daisy May, if you are a fan of the Dukes of Hazard. Another came in as Mason because you mentioned, John, that she was possibly in a W.B. Mason office supply box. W.B. Mason, by the way, of those of you who are not in the New England area, was William Betts Mason who started this office supply store, W.B. Mason, in 1898 in Brockton, Massachusetts. So forget Staples or Forget, you know, there used to be an Office Max. I don't even know if that's still around. WB Mason, everybody knows in New England, as an office supply store. On John's Instagram, there was Lucy, there was Mifflin, and there was a couple of people because they are followers of the television show The Office, which was about the company, the paper company, Dundar Mifflin. Uh somebody came up with Mifflin. Somebody else uh came up with on John's Facebook names of the three women employees in the office, Pam, Angie, or Kelly. More on the uh social media of Instagram, Facebook, or threads. We had uh Ruby, Patches, Bandit, Clippy, Inky, Daisy, another Daisy came in on Facebook. Lyme. And two of those.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Two two limes.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Two limes. And is this specific people know your daughter's name? Is that how that happened?

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Uh well, Tisa, who I is friends with uh my wife, said lemon sidekick, who's my daughter, yes. I had a Penelope.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Yes, and Penelope. You're right. And can you pronounce the one that came in through threads?

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Isla. The person said it was Irish for little peanut. So I have to tell you, I am I'm tickled that people took the time to even think about this. Now, I have to admit, everyone thinks their pet's the cutest pet in the world, but my girl happens to have that black circle around one of her eyes. Oh, okay. And I think it makes it very hard for people to not stop and look at the picture. The black circle around the eye, just you know, when you're flipping through or or doom scrolling, you have to stop and look at that.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah, she's a beautiful pure white.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Yeah, she's just I worry about keeping her clean, Patty. Because we we play kind of hard in the mud here at my house.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

So right, right. But she's beautiful. And my younger sister, when she saw her picture, she said she's smiling. And I said that.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

She tweeted that yes, I swear sometimes it looks like she is.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

She's smiling. See, it does not matter to us when you listen. If you download through the podcast and listen to us then, or you listen to us live on Saturday evenings at WADK.com at 6 p.m. Eastern time, or replay on the replay Sunday mornings at 10 p.m.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

That's my time. That is that is when we usually tune in because we're at the community center. We pipe it through the aucs on the uh bose speaker there, and they let us use the Wi-Fi and the Bluetooth, and that's when we play it.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

That's very cool. It doesn't matter when you listen, answer the poll question anytime you listen. We just had a listener who has text us. Uh I hadn't heard from her since February on one of our poll questions, but her name is Lauren. She's in the 914 area code. We had a show a month ago where it was the week of we noted June 6th through the 14th was National Fishing and Voting Week. And our poll question was, you know, what's what's your favorite outdoors uh activity now that it was summer and now it's a great June is was now we're into July, the great outdoors month. And we heard from Lauren where John talked about kissing of the fish. So once again, John, what what is that about?

SPEAKER_02 7:41

So apparently it's it's it's a very old tradition, and it's to show reverence to the uh fish that you caught and to show appreciation for the uh sport and a fight they put up. And uh it's something that we've done on the pond here for a couple of years. I will admit though, I haven't had much luck the last I think because it's been so hot, the fish are kind of retreating to the edges of the pond and waiting until the temps get a little cooler. But I've not had a lot of luck lately, Patty.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Well, Lauren texts us and said, uh, Lauren here enjoyed yesterday's show, which was our 4th of July show. And um this recent one, hope you had a great fourth. Tell the producer if kissing a fish, make sure he didn't catch a pickerel. They have sharp teeth.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Well, guess what? I only fish for bass, so if it's not a bass, I'm throwing it back immediately. So I'm safe. But I appreciate the uh suggestion and the warning, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

That's an ugly fish, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah, uh that I'm not a good looking fish. So last week's show when I put out notable dates, I actually forgot to put out that July 2nd was I forgot day.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

I did forget.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

You legitimately forgot to forget.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

I did. I wrote it down, I flipped the page when we were done, and I said I forgot to to note that. But what I want to put out here for the poll, 603-204-0104, is and we'll read this on next week's show, your answers, is Wednesday, July 8th was National Freezer Pop Day. And I don't call it a freezer pop, I call it a popsicle. But the poll question with that is what is your favorite popsicle? And the one that comes to mind for me is the blue one.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Okay, remember just straight, like it's like a raspberry or a blueberry raspberry type flavor.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

I enjoyed that, and of course it made your tongue blue, so that was pretty cool. Do you have a favorite?

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Oh, the the rocket pop, red at the top, white in the middle, blue at the bottom.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Oh, the rocket pop.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

The red, white, and blue. Yep. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

I still have a hard time passing it up if if we're at a kid's party and they have them.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Very cool. And the other poll is I was thinking recently that this is a time of year where there's outdoor craft shows and there's farmers' markets, and it's concert season. So the poll question is are you doing any of those? Are you going to craft shows? Do you follow craft shows? Are you going to your weekly farmers market? Or have you bought tickets for a concert and who are you going to see? Before we uh get into the break, I just want to say that um we have a great show today. We're gonna uh I'm going to talk about in the next segment uh the latest news with a couple of items with the IRS that I think is very necessary for you to know now. We have Catherine Tyndall as our guest, and and she's going to talk about our new podcast when it comes to uh business owners and and strategies with financial advisors. And in our last segment, my coaching corner, I'm going to be talking about new IRS revisions in June. They revise their financial standards and their collection financial information statement forms, which is very important when you're trying to submit that information for some type of resolution program with the IRS to pay back tax debt. So come on back.

SPEAKER_05 12:00

It comes a time. It comes a time.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

I'm Patricia Gentile, founder of New England Tax Relief. I started this practice for hardworking families and small business owners getting crushed by IRS debt they didn't know how to fight. I work directly with the IRS on your behalf, negotiating settlements, stopping collections, reducing penalties, and handling appeals. Personally, no call centers, no runaround, just me working for you. Call or schedule online for your free confidential consultation at 1-800-880-8388 or at New EnglandTaxrelief.com down all around. This is the Patty Dentel Show. And in this segment, I want to mention a couple of things. The first is that the IRS actually announced on July 8th that they will be phasing out during 2026. And I'm I'm looking to see at their notice. It's really they're beginning it now, and they're expecting to phase this out completely effectively January 1st of 2027. What is it that they're phasing out? They're phasing out this first-time abate, administrative relief, and they're replacing it with a new automatic exemption from penalty system. And this system is where the IRS is actually going to be able to let taxpayers know who have a good history with the IRS of filing on time and paying, but at some point they have filed late, or they had a failure to pay, or they've had a failure when it came to payroll tax returns that are uh filed on a and paid on a quarterly basis. They call it a failure to deposit. So those three types of penalties, failure to file, which I call late filing, failure to pay, which I call late paying, and a failure to deposit, which is really toward uh geared towards uh uh payroll tax returns, that with a good history, you could have those penalties abated under this first-time abatement, but you had to s apply for it. You had to call the IRS or you had to submit uh some kind of form or request, written request, and then the IRS would look and make sure that you qualified and qualifications were that uh you you timely filed returns and paying any tax due in the three prior years, prior to the year that you're you're being assessed these penalties, or when it comes to payroll tax returns, you had to have uh filing the return timely and paying any tax due in 12 consecutive quarters for quarterly returns. So those taxpayers would qualify for a request of a first-time abate relief of those three penalties: failure to file, failure to pay, failure to deposit. Now the IRS is saying this new automatic penalty relief, automatic exemption from penalty AEP, the IRS is going to actually, the taxpayers do not need to take any action to receive this relief. If you're eligible, the IRS is going to apply AEP, this system, and issue on notice confirming that the relief was granted. So I know the national taxpayer advocate has been wanting an automatic uh relief from people who actually qualify for the first time abatement, and now here it is, and the IRS is going to be transitioning to the AEP during this summer. During this transition, some qualifying taxpayers may still receive penalty notices for eligible tax shares of 2025 and 2026 quarterly returns. But you can still call in if you qualify, contact the IRS and request first time at bay. So because they're going to phase in this AEP automated automatic exemption from penalty program, it's like I said, sometimes you're going to still get notices and you're going to have to call in, or other times you might be one of these people in the system where the IRS will automatically apply first-time abate and issue you a notice in the mail confirming that the relief was granted. For taxpayers who don't qualify for AEP, you can still request penalty relief based on reasonable cause, and therefore you'll have to follow penalty relief or reasonable cause on Form 843. The other thing I want to mention is that because this is wedding season, tends to be wedding season at this time of year, when you become married, some changes you may want to make before the next filing season. And one of those would be report a name change. If you have if either person changes their name, it should be reported to the Social Security Administration prior to filing a tax return. Now, for those who are on extension for filing their 2025 return, it doesn't apply to you because it's based on what is your legal status as of December 31st of 2026, the tax year we're talking about that you'll be reporting on. And so if you change your name, you want to report that to Social Security Administration prior to filing a tax return. And the name on the tax return must match Social Security records to avoid processing delays. You should submit an address uh change, a change of address form. IRS has a Form 8822 change of address if either or both spouses move to a new home. And of course, you go ahead and notify your local post office, your employers, financial institutions, and the IRS on Form 8822 and check your State Department of Revenue website for a change of address form as well. You also want a tax plan whether now as a married filing joint, you could be changing your tax status. And so you want to uh, for example, use the IRS's form W-4, where they have a IRS tax withholding estimator, or do a tax plan if you're someone who prepares your own return on turbo tax. Maybe you can do a projection on that, or if you use a paid preparer, a tax professional, have them do a tax projection on their software. And lastly, you want to explore tax credits and deductions that now apply to you as joint filers. And in upcoming shows, I think at mid-year, it's actually time to review to make sure you're on track with tax credits and deductions and tax planning. So that will be forthcoming. Going into our next segment after the break is our guest, Katherine Tyndall. She's a CPA and founder of Dominion Enterprises Services, but she hosts the Financial Advisors Want to Know podcast where she's sharing insights and brings practice experts to discuss how to grow advisory firms sustainably. But I listening to her podcast, I can hear that a lot of these principles apply to all types of business owners. So come on back. And she's both a CPA and founder of Dominion Enterprises Services, which is a CPA firm that focuses exclusively on serving financial advisors for their own tax planning and financial. Needs as business owners. So I want to welcome Catherine here and thank her for coming on because I'd like you to talk about Catherine, your new podcast called Financial Advisors Want to Know.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

So Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Um, yeah, so like you mentioned, I I serve pretty much the financial advisor industry. One of the reasons that I've enjoyed working with that industry in in particular is because I really enjoy education around tax topics and tax planning topics. And so I know a lot of the conversations with them kind of lead into their own ability to help serve their clients better and you know be better conversation partners when it comes to when advising is kind of on the fringes with tax planning, which is really common in the industry. But the show itself, it's um, you know, although we niche for the wealth management industry, it really is a show around how to run successful professional services businesses. Uh, it's been a wonderful opportunity for me to meet a lot of different people in the industry and have a lot of really interesting conversations around topics that are not my area of expertise when it comes to taxes. So it's been a very enriching experience so far.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

I know that you'd like to niche and become an expert in areas such as the ERC, the employee retention credit. Yep. Uh when that that was just brewing, oh, what about four years ago? And you were right on the cutting edge of that right from the start.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Oh, that program. I I feel like it's I've been in an eternity of COVID in the program. So yeah, it's we're now at the point, at least on my side with a lot of the casework that I've been involved with, where um, you know, we've just been continuing to see delays and you know, erroneous IRS notices. And um, you know, basically with a lot of that program, things have kind of settled to the point now where we're starting to do a lot of um congressional requests for people because really, okay, you know, they don't have um, we don't have a financial hardship that like the taxpayer advocate would like to get involved, but for a lot of people, their representatives are, you know, okay, we're now talking in 2026. This was a program that they were supposed to get this money in 2021. So it's been long enough. Um, so we're starting to pursue that for people. And it's we've been having some, you know, pretty good results so far. But um, yeah, it's just it's an example of a program where it was poorly administered. Um, it was, you know, trying to achieve the things that it was trying to achieve in the legislative intent was not carried out by the actual people running the program at the IRS level. Um, and then also, as you know, I'm sure you've you've experienced this firsthand, there's been a lot of changeover over at the IRS and a lot of turmoil and leadership, um, a lot of you know systems issues and and things like that. So we've just been kind of bearing the brunt of a lot of the inefficiencies that we have in our taxation system, right? Um, so it's it still continues to be uh, you know, we're talking in 2026, uh still continues to be something that we're dealing with every day.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Right, right. So what drew you to the financial advisor industry?

SPEAKER_00 25:32

So I've always had advisors as clients, you know, since I've been in um tax. So for, you know, um, I think we're getting over 15 years now in tax. And I just realized over time, you know, as as we were doing different things, like we'd I'd always had advisor clients, and I realized after a certain amount of time that I really enjoyed those relationships the most when I looked at kind of the different industries I'd worked for and different client bases I had worked for, because for me, the education piece was really important. Um and I think for me from a professional standpoint, you know, when I'm able to kind of talk through these tax planning opportunities or um, you know, just better educate that advisor, that information is not just sitting with them. It's now trickling down to their households that they work with. And so for me, from like a professional fulfillment standpoint, it's okay, I can put in this effort and I'm not just touching one life, I'm not just improving one situation, I'm improving hundreds of situations with each relationship that we have. And so I think you know, that really moved me to okay, I really want to help this industry specifically and help with the education because there is a lot of misinformation around income tax and how it's administrated. And, you know, specifically, there's a lot of misinformation around tax planning opportunities and what's appropriate and what's not. Um, and so I ended up getting more and more involved. And after a certain amount of time, I was like, I just want to work with advisors. Like, you know, it's just been a really great niche for us.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

I think that's a great thing. It makes me think about what I always like, the ripple effect. Yes. And that's why I like to coach other tax resolution professionals who are helping their clients solve tax problems because of what you just said. It goes from them to the taxpayer and the taxpayer to their family, their life, their business. That it's just such a ripple effect that I felt uh it's not doesn't have to all start with me. And I can help to coach, train, or even mentor tax professionals who are helping their clients with tax problems. I definitely am in alignment with you know your vision too about what you're doing. I really saw it, well, not saw, but I heard in listening to your recent podcast episode, what was being discussed there. Um, your guest was talking about delegating, how to delegate when you're in a you have been it as you know, the go-to, the person who's built the business, and as you said, the book of business when it came to financial advisors. And now it was time to really delegate that. And you know, I know the owner operators of any of my clients' businesses that really do need the help, need to delegate and use that help, and yet they'll say, I don't have time to train, I don't have time to show them. Um, but they need the help, and and so I I thought it was interesting her suggestions about how to do that. What else in your podcast? What else do you like to bring uh to your listeners? I I know you're bringing in, you know, experts. Are they around the advisory uh financial advisor industry or are they pretty much as business owners?

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Yeah, so I I go for usually having guests on where we'll be discussing a topic that I've either seen in my client relationships with these advisor firm owners are areas that they're interested in. So, you know, because I have such a tax planning focus in the work that we do, a lot of times all the things that are downstream of like what people's tax liabilities are, it's all downstream of business decisions that they're making and how those are going to impact their financials and then how that's gonna impact their taxes. And so we end up talking a lot of shop, I like to call it. And, you know, so I try to focus the episodes on things that I notice in those shop talk conversations or things that people have questions about. Or, you know, I think for a lot, and this is true, I think, for most business owners, that you know, you kind of know what your friends are doing, like your industry friends, like people who are also owners in the same industry as you.

SPEAKER_05 30:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

But you kind of don't, right? Like there's a level of privacy that you have between, like, you know, you're not sharing your PL, you know, with your friendly competitor person down the street. Um, and so I think for a lot of the advisors that I work with, you know, for this industry, it ends up being a um, you know, important, important thing for them to have more resources to be able to make those decisions um from a place of you know getting expert feedback and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

I really like this financial advisor, you know, niche for you, but it is a little bit broader than that, especially with what you're bringing in your podcast, that I think all business owners can actually um obtain a lot of good information through listening to it. So why don't you let people know how they can uh reach you? Yeah, so come see you.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Yeah, so for people who are interested, I'm very active on LinkedIn. So if you search my name, Katherine Tyndall CPA um and on LinkedIn, I'll pop up right away. So I'm very active on LinkedIn. And then through that, you can get to the links to the show. It's called the Financial Advisors Want to Know podcast, which is available on all major podcasting platforms. Um, and then the other thing that I would mention as well that you might find helpful is if you're a business owner and you deal with tax, you know, you have your own tax situation. Um, I do have a newsletter that goes out monthly that I send to my clients, but also to whoever else wants to be on it, discussing basically, you know, here's what's coming on the pipeline for, you know, different deadlines that are applicable to you or different planning things that we tend to do during the year and different ideas or opportunities or things that are changing in the tax legislation landscape. Just basically the, you know, here's your five-minute digest of what you need to be aware of with all of the complexity that goes on with tax. So I welcome people to sign up for the newsletter as well. And um that has links to the podcast and then different like educational things that I do.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Perfect. So you also have a website?

SPEAKER_00 32:31

We do. So it's uh dominion.ca um because we're a CPA firm, so you can find us through that. Um, but usually, people, if you want to connect with me directly, I recommend LinkedIn is the best way.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Very good. I can't thank you enough for coming on and introducing us to your podcast and letting people know how they can find you. Yeah, thank you for having me. Hey, have a great rest of the summer. Hey, see you as well. Hi, I'm Patricia Gental, founder of New England Tax Relief. I started this practice for hardworking families and small business owners getting crushed by IRS debt, they didn't know how to fight. I work directly with the IRS on your behalf, negotiating settlements, stopping collections, reducing penalties, and handling appeals personally. No call centers, no runaround, just me working for you. Call or schedule online your free confidential consultation at one eight hundred eight eight zero eight three eight eight or at New EnglandTaxrelief.com. New England Tax Relief, I'm in your corner. Welcome back everyone. This is the Patty Gentile Show. In our last segment, which I like to call my coaching corner, I like to provide guidance and tips and strategies around tax debt and resolving tax problems. One of the major forms that is required when you need to establish things such as a payment plan or the currently not collectible status if you're having financial hardship or submitting an offer and compromise is the forms 433-A and 433-B. The IRS revised both these forms last month in June. The title for Form 433-A is collection information statement for wage earners and self-employed individuals. And the title for Form 433-B is Collection Information Statement for Businesses. So I'm going to refer to the Form 433-A. Once again, the IRS requires this form when a taxpayer cannot pay their tax debt in full and needs to negotiate collection alternatives. So here we are four years later. And on the main form, the main form 433-A, previously it allowed up to three dependents to be listed, but now that accommodates up to five. Of course, if you have six or more dependents that you need to enter, you'd have to attach uh an additional schedule, a supplementary schedule. There's a new income question. The IRS now asks whether any increase or decrease in income is anticipated. And if it's yes, practitioners, if you have a tax professional representing you, or if you're representing yourself and filling this out yourself, you must provide the expected timing amount and an explanation of any increase or decrease in income that you're anticipating. Another new question is a passport and citizenship questions. It's now this Form 433-A is now asking one, do you have a United States passport? And two, do you have dual citizenship? The IRS has not explained the reason for these additions, but it appears to reflect a broader effort to gather more comprehensive information during the collection information statement reviews. These questions may assist like a revenue officer in evaluating future collection potential or international ties, passport certification, and possible foreign assets. So more information is fitting on the main form in this revived uh PDF, which you can find on irs.gov, and in the search box you would put in Form 433-A. So it's allowing up to more lines for bank accounts, investments, listing digital assets, credit cards, real properties, meaning real estate, and personal vehicles. And when it comes to the real property or the real estate, the IRS is now requiring the names of all title holders in addition to how the title is held, meaning, for example, joint tenancy, tenancy by the entirety, etc. And I do want to mention here that next week I will be talking about the five myths about jointly owned property and IRS tax debt. So I want to cover that, considering that this tends to be wedding season. Right now, we're talking about how the IRS is requiring on the Form 433-A, you note title holders and how the title is held. Joint tenancy. Tancy by the entirety is only for married couples, and etc. There's other types of legal title holders, and depending on um your particular state, real estate tax law. There's also a new field that's been added to identify the names of all title holders for business assets as well. And when it comes to the Form 433-B, that's the information collection statement for businesses. In comparison to its February 2019 revision, which is the last time that form's been revised, they've simply added digital assets where they have their own dedicated section. And they these digital assets prior to this revision uh were reported under the investments section. Now they have their own dedicated section. The collection financial statements uh the Form 433-A, the IRS also updated what's called its collection financial standards. And what they are are guidelines. They're guidelines that's used by the IRS to determine a taxpayer's ability to pay delinquent tax liabilities. They establish standard allowable living expenses for basic necessities such as food, clothing, housing, and transportation, preventing economic hardship while ensuring taxes are paid. This is how the IRS describes these collection financial standards that are their guidelines. But let me tell you what these standards are divided into three primary categories national standards, which applies to nationwide basic family expenses, out-of-pocket health care, where it's a standard per person allowances for out-of-pocket medical expenses, medical services, and prescription drugs, and local standards. This covers housing and utilities and transportation, and it varies significantly, these standards, based on your specific location and county. So these standards are used when you're preparing in specific page four of the Form 433-A, where there are the necessary living expenses, your average monthly living expenses, and then these standards, these national standards, out-of-pocket healthcare, local standards, housing and utility and transportation, you can find on IRS.gov these standards. So they're guidelines for you when you're doing the filling this out for average monthly living expenses. But we'll talk about how if you don't meet the guideline and what you actually spend for this is above these guidelines, how you can handle that. We can talk about that next week as well. I want to put out here, I do in a complimentary consultation, telephone consultation, that you can go to my website and schedule an appointment at New EnglandTaxrelief.com or call me on the phone at 1-800-880-8388. I actually provide what I call a mini run through in less than a half an hour of this form 433-A. If you want to get a feel for what type of program alternative collection alternative program you may qualify if you can't pay your debt in full. So until our next show, have a great week.