EP 3:21 Using Yoga in Chemsex Recovery with Malu

Supplementary Study Guide: https://www.recoveryalchemy.org/newsletters/blog/posts/integration

In this episode of The AfterMeth Podcast, Dallas sits down with Malu, a yoga teacher with twenty years of experience who specializes in working with gay men in recovery. Based in Hawaii, Malu discovered yoga in college and spent years building a practice before recognizing how deeply it supported his own sobriety journey — one rooted in alcohol use and a high-pressure career in New York City. Drawing on the teachings of his mentor Rod Stryker and a therapeutic approach to yoga rooted in Tantric Alchemy, Malu explains the difference between abstinence and true sobriety, and how the mat can become a bridge between what's learned in therapy and what's actually lived in daily life. His framework, which he calls Sober Embodiment, offers gay men in recovery a structured, body-based pathway for transforming not just their behaviors — but their identity.

Malu walks Dallas through his three-pillar approach: tapas (the heat of discipline and sitting with discomfort), self-study (exploring the addiction story and frequency), and identity work (stepping into the authentic self through Yoga Nidra, sankalpa, and visioning). The conversation dives into how yoga rewires the brain through unfamiliar movement, unwinds deep-seated patterns called vasanas, and trains the nervous system to tolerate difficult emotions — including the cravings and triggers so central to chemsex recovery. Dallas and Malu find powerful alignment between their respective frameworks, particularly around the concept of "frequency," building a prophetic vision of the self, and using consistent daily practice — even just seven minutes — as an act of identity reclamation. This episode is a rich, practical, and spiritually resonant conversation for any gay man in recovery who is ready to embody his sobriety, not just endure it.

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Email: malu@malulaniyoga.com

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Transcript

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What is are you in the frequency of an addict? And this is I say this all the time is ask yourself, are you behaving as this person who uses meth? Are you in the frequency? Or have you bought into I'm an addict? Because if I'm just if I'm an addict, I'm gonna act like one, I'm gonna think like one, I'm gonna talk like one. I'm gonna ChemStext. Sexualized drug use among men who have sex with men, typically involving methamphetamine, methadrone, and GHB, among others. Chemstext misuse is a worldwide epidemic that needs attention, dialogue, and hope for those lost in it, which is the purpose of the Aftermath Podcast. Please note the views expressed by the host and guest on this podcast are not to be taken as medical advice, and the content around sex and drug use can be triggering. All right, welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast. Glad to have you here. Thank you for choosing us. Thank you for joining. Appreciate you listening very much. Don't forget to like and subscribe and share and all the good things to the podcast so the algorithm can get it to the people who need to see it or need to hear it. We are now on Apple Podcast Video. So you can watch the podcast on Apple now and Spotify and YouTube. So I think we're all into watching them, it seems like. That seems to be the trend now for some reason. Um, but uh thank you for being here. And today we have a a topic that we haven't covered yet that I am ready to get into, and that is yoga in sobriety. Um, I have a client who is crazy about yoga. Um, and he is, you know, he just attributes yoga to his recovery um for many, many, many reasons, and I'm sure we'll get into them today. So my guest today is a a yoga for gay men and recovery practitioner. I'm gonna let you introduce yourself. I'm probably butchering what you would call yourself, uh Malu, um, and all the way from Hawaii. So with Malu, welcome. Hi, Dallas. Yeah, thank you so much. Um, yeah, so um I'm Malu. I'm um so I have been a yoga teacher for 20 years. Um sorry. My dog is barking now. That's okay. So uh yeah, so I've been a yoga teacher for 20 years. Um, and I didn't really kind of start out in uh working with gay men, but I just kind of fell into it because a lot of gay men started coming to my classes. I think they just see they saw somebody who was like them and they wanted to be there. So um, so that's kind of how my origin in that. But um yoga really played a huge part in my um recovery journey, which is mostly it's it's a it's more of an alcohol story where I I think you know a lot of gay men can really um connect with the idea of using alcohol as the way that we sort of deal with difficult emotions. So for me, uh I actually I walked into my first AA meeting in 2012. And so it's been a while, but it, you know, it's uh it's one of those journeys that it's like you have peaks and valleys. And so um since then I've I've discovered that yoga, which became a part of my story so early on, um, maybe about seven years before I walked into an um AA meeting, um, that I I I I never really put the two together. But then eventually I started seeing like how much the um, you know, the practice really, really supported um the sobriety journey. And after I started really um using it as one of my main tools, I started introducing it to other men who um who who have you know numbing behaviors, alcohol, substances, uh, pornography, whatever, whatever is going on in someone's life. Um often uh you know, yoga can be a really good addition to whatever um, you know, whatever main modality they're using in their recovery, whether it's a step meeting or if they're working with a therapist or a counselor, like it's really good to have um yoga there because of the coping skills that it um helps you to develop. Hmm. Interesting. Um and is that what it what attracted you to yoga in the first place anyway? You said it started seven years before. Yeah, so I actually so I started teaching in um in 2007. Okay, but before that, I actually didn't I took my first yoga class in 2002. So I was in college at the time when I took my first yoga class. Um, and I did it as one of those like, you know, the the college offers is like it's really an easy one credit class. I was like, I'll take yoga. Yeah. And so that was how I got introduced to it. And I just loved it because I was never really one of those physical people who who really um uh connected with like being in the gym. I wasn't like one of those, one of those people, but um for me yoga became it became my physical, like my physical exercise, you know, after I was introduced to it. And um, but then like I said, I saw it it took a while to connect the pieces that it's like, wait a minute, there's there's a lot of deeper elements to a yoga, to your yoga practice than you might first be introduced to when you say like take a class at a gym or to go to a yoga studio. You're really you're really scratching the surface in a lot of those group classes. But once I started doing my teacher training and learning um the deeper elements of yoga, I found a very specific teacher um actually that helped me make those connections. So his name is Rod Stryker. He's been my teacher um since 2014, actually. Um he uh he uh has a a sort of a therapeutic approach to yoga where it's not about trying to achieve some perfect um you know physical pose or like try to do really difficult things like handstand or like you know balancing on you know one hand with one leg behind your you know your your neck or something. It's not it's not it's not that, right? Like it's not poses for the sake of poses. It's a lot of this like nervous system regulation kind of work. It's really working with um the breath, pranayama. It's really trying to work with the energetics of the um of what uh what what we have going on in the body and in our sort of um in our going on in the head and in the body. So um, so yeah, it was a it it it was a journey to kind of make those connections, but once I did, I was like, wow, like there's really there, there's there's a lot within yoga that um that actually is can be a bridge for a lot of people between the work that they're doing with say a counselor or a therapist and this and the stuff that they have going on at home, right? Like it's like sometimes it's like how do I take what I learned on the couch to to what's what's happening in my regular life, right? Oh, I see. And that's where I think yoga can be kind of the bridge for people. Interesting. Okay. Well, when did you notice? So you you obviously had a problematic issue with alcohol. When did when did you notice that yoga was kind of complementing and helping you integrate? Yeah, so I was so um it was a bit of a journey, like I said. I so I was actually living in New York City at the time when I walked into my first, you know, it was a kind of a dusty church basement kind of situation. Yeah. Walked into one of those, like, you know, the bad coffee and the, you know, like feeling really awkward, not wanting to say anything about your story because you there's a lot of shame involved in like, you know, a numbing, any kind of numbing behavior, right? Like we kind of keep it often, it's like we keep it to ourselves. We don't reveal it. And it was never like the thing with for me with um using alcohol, a lot of it was really social. Like it was just, but it was one of those things where it was like, I needed to do it all the time, where it was like I was on the go. I was, you know, I was working um in communications and PR in New York City, and like it's like you're on the go, you're just stressed out, strung out, like you just can't can't um turn the brain off at night or whatever. So it was a lot of um going to the bar after work kind of thing. And then it just became what it what it became is this kind of like it was my main coping strategy, right? Like, okay, I'm stressed out. What are we doing? Like, what are we doing at when five o'clock hits? We're going to the bar with coworkers, and then that just kind of spiraled where it just became then it became something that I was doing on my own at home. Like, okay, I'm gonna go buy a bottle of gin and like I'm gonna have two or three drinks a night. But it was never like it's you know, it's always a problem to kind of numb your emotions, but I I I think compared to most, that like I have not had it as bad as some others. Like I it was a um it was definitely a problem because it was causing me to be disregulated. Like it's one of those things where it's like the drink helps in the moment, but then once that moment passes, it's like, but then you're left with this additional dysregulation from the from you know, the the whatever it were whatever it was doing to numb you out. The problem doesn't go away. It resurfaces, but often with a vengeance. And so it was like, so then I was just showing up in the world as like just not a good person, you know, like angry, upset with like kind of the smallest things, like the train is late, and I mean, you know, I'm just really like kind of ups just going through it, spiraling. And so when those things started to click for me, that's when it was like, I really need, I need something, I need another coping mechanism. Like the thing is the coping mechanism was staring me in the face the whole time, and I didn't really, I didn't really latch on to it. It was the yoga, you know what I mean? Like it was looking at me, but what I was doing, so Dallas, I'm you have to entertain me using these like Sanskrit words because it is kind of the language I speak. Okay, but it's like so I was living in a rajazic city. So Rajazic means active. Okay. Really like if you think of like the way a train moves, like really fast, that's a rajazik quality. So I was living in a Rajazic city, okay, doing a Rajazic job because I'm like, you know, I'm I'm communicating, I'm trying to meet deadlines, I've, you know, there are uh there's a lot of pressure to perform. So there's that happening. Then I'm doing a rajazic yoga practice, meaning a highly physical, very movement-based, very sweaty, very exercisy. And and then I was adding kind of fuel to the fire with alcohol. So all of a sudden I've got this like, like, is it any wonder that my um my nervous system was essentially out of whack, right? Like it was just it was like a brush fire that I just kept adding more, more gasoline to. Yeah. So, like, once I discovered through this teacher I spoke about, Rod Stryker, once I really became enmeshed in his techniques, I started to see that there was so much within the yoga practice that it didn't have to be what you kind of see on television, like the kind of like really fast, really vigorous yoga practices, that there's a therapeutic way of of working that is that is helping you to slow down using yoga as medicine. Um, and that's when things started to really shift because it was like I had this practice, but I was just practicing in a way that wasn't serving, um, wasn't really serving what I was going through. You know what I mean? Like, and and I think that's the like this is probably too much, but it's like if like like let's say I was a I was more of a sluggish person. I was like, I just had a really hard time just like getting moving throughout the day. I never met deadlines. I, you know, I was constantly late to work. That really vigorous practice would have been really good for me, but I wasn't that person. I was a person who was like go, go, go, go, go. And then I was adding more go go go to it with my yoga. So yoga should be something that balances you, not takes you further out of balance. Interesting. Yeah. Okay, so if rah if rajazik is active in the train moving, then what's sluggish? What's the word for that? So that would be kaffa. So it's like I it's like and there's inertia is like would be a really good translation for that. Okay. There's someone who is very inert where it's like they don't, they they can't feel their feelings or they let their feelings make them very heavy. Um, and but then where you want to be is a is a state called sattvik, which essentially means clear. So if you think of water, water is clear, and there's like a purity to water, and that's where you want to be. You don't want to be overly like, you know, in the kind of like the fiery part of things, but you also don't want to be like earth, like too heavy. You want to be somewhere in the middle, which is like is where subvict comes. And that's actually the yo. So the yoga that I try to introduce to people is how can I move you to a subject state? So let's say you are on one s one or the other side of the equation. I want to move you back to middle. So and so trying to figure out where do you exist on that scale and then try to move you back to balance. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what yeah, what you're regulating the the emotional, right? The nervous system by getting you to suffocate. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. So uh some of the things that is that you said I wanted to come back to, um, and that is what I'm imagining here, you said that that yoga is a complement to recovery. That it that while you're in therapy, while you're in coaching, yoga could be kind of the way I'm seeing it is like a physical integration. Like you said, what you picked up on the couch, you know, now you want to kind of integrate it maybe into your body or or try to process it somehow. And I I do see a lot of this. I see a lot of guys taking on information, information, like all the knowledge and the knowledge and the tools and the epiphanies of, you know, this is oh wow, this is my trauma. This is why I'm here. This is my, you know, but then what? They don't know what to do with it. Like you could do, you can have talk therapy to try to process it, but I feel like the right type of yoga could really help that move through your system in a way that probably you can't articulate. Is that right? Exactly. And I think that is where, and you know, I've been in therapy since I was in college. So I have a lot of complex PTSD from childhood, and you know, just being in an environment that was there was a lot of alcohol use, there was just a lot of chaos in the home, a lot of moving, a lot of, you know, divorce. Like there was just like ne nothing was ever stable, right? And I kind of I so I was doing the therapy to unpack all of that stuff. But yeah, like you do need something else. Like, you know, there are, you know, obviously there are going to be therapeutic um relationships that where you're gonna learn the coping skills, but you actually need to practice them. And often I think because you don't have your therapist with you 24-7, like sometimes it's like you actually do need this additional guidance on like, how do I actually live this thing out? Because, or else it just becomes it just becomes a form of active procrastination, right? Like reading the recovery lit, right, listening to podcasts, doing all of that stuff, like that's just a way of like actively procrastinating on transformation. But if you can take that and then use it and actually put it into practice, that's where the that's actually where the transformation occurs. That's right. And so that's actually what I do with people is like, so um I work with I I call it like sober embodiment. Like, how do you begin to embody your sobriety? So, like, um, and I always tell like I always tell people that I work with, like, there is a difference between abstinence and sobriety. So we need to understand that. Just because I am not I have not had a drink, like, doesn't necessarily mean that I'm sober. If I'm out there, if I'm if I'm throwing a fit because the the line, you know, the clerk at the drugstore is taking too long and there the line is building up, like that means I'm actually, I'm not actually sober. I might be abstinent, but I'm, you know, there's that dry drunk title, right? So it's like that's where if we can start to embody our sobriety, like, and so I take people through uh it's a like a three-step kind of thing where it's like, okay, first we're gonna deal with triggers and cravings. We're really gonna, I'm gonna give you all the tools that you need to begin to work with those triggers and cravings so that you don't have to, like, if something comes up, like you're stressed out because of something that happened at work, you know, your boyfriend breaks up with you, you know, you get bad news, like it shouldn't be that shouldn't be the linchpin of like you falling back into a behavior because something happened, right? How can we work with the difficult things that happen in life and be able to stay in the difficulty, stay in, be, but be the be the steadiness in the midst of chaos. So that's one piece of it. And then the other piece of it is the self-study piece, and it's really beginning to understand like, what is my addiction story? Like there's a there's a guy that wrote um, his name is uh Tommy Rosen, I believe is his name. Um, he wrote Recovery 2.0 and he's a yoga teacher. And he talks, so he talks about there's an addiction frequency and there's an addiction story. The addiction story is usually it's some version of I need this in order to feel yeah, um, like myself. In order to function, I need this, right? And so it's like some version of that, but we need to tease that out. We need to understand what is my addiction story, and then how does that story inform a certain frequency that we're living on? Like, I I move through the world on a certain frequency. So if it's if that frequency is wired to addiction, like then everything about my life it begins to serve that addiction, right? Like it's like, um, but if we can change your frequency because you begin to understand the frequency that you're living on, that's the other piece, the self-study, you know, really going through. And that's where I I introduce a lot of meditation and like really starting to um be self-reflective. I also do a lot of self-compassion work during a self-study phase because a lot of it can, you know, you can feel triggered about certain memories coming up or whatever. And that's where we need to just like we need to just give ourselves some love and grace that we're a human being, like, you know, we're and we're on this like process of becoming, but we are also being, so we're already perfect, exactly as we are. So then there's that. And then there's the bigger piece, which is um an identity piece, which is really about who who are you becoming? Like what is your core, what is the core person that you are stepping into? Right now you are you're you're standing in someone else's shoes, and your real identity has faded into the background because the addictive self has stepped forward. The addictive self is the person who's in control right now. So, how can I get your authentic self to step back into the foreground so that the addictive self is no longer in control? And so that's where we start to use um techniques that some people are a little like they don't really know how to process this, but so it's called Yoga Nidra, and it's um it's a process of deep relaxation that we then introduce like a mantra that is, but it, you know, it's more like an affirmation. So It's like, you know, it could be something as simple as like, you know, I'm a man who makes choices that isn't aligned with my values, right? And then that way it's like, it's not necessarily speaking directly to addiction, but it could speak to almost anything happening in your life. Like you don't throw a fit because the clerk is taking too long with a customer, right? You are able to stay calm and just find your patience because that is aligned with your values. The same with picking up a drink or using a substance or like doom scrolling, you know, like if those things are not aligned with your values, you don't do them. And so um finding a vision that somebody has, I think you talk about like having a vision, and then that is the thing. It's we're we're talking the same thing, different different language, but we use a a very kind of deep relaxation technique in order to seed that into the subconscious. So in some ways, it it has some relation to like um self-hip hypnosis type type um things, where it's like you want to get to a state where the it's the state between uh waking and dreaming where it's like you, you know, like right before you fall asleep, there's this kind of like there's this, there's this uh kind of uh Housean feeling that you have. That's actually what we try to get you to, where it's just like you're you're you're aware, but your body is asleep. You know, there's a tr there's a trace of awareness, and that's where we use our sunculpa, our affirmation to um, and it's not one and done. Like, you know, it's it's like take it's like taking your vitamins, right? You gotta do it regularly. It's a practice. But eventually that thing that may seem really that vision may seem really far off, but after doing this for a while, like all of a sudden you'll notice like you could be sitting in traffic and you're just not having the same reaction that you used to. And that's your authentic self stepping forward into that vision of of who you want to embody. And so it's really powerful, you know, like, and that's the kind of that's what I mean when I say there's the kind of yoga that you might experience when you step into like a kind of generic, like, you know, group fitness class. But there's this other kind of yoga that a lot of people have no idea about because it's so it's such deep work that you can't introduce it to a random person stepping into a a group class. You need to actually be doing like real personal work with someone in order for them to find those teachings. Yeah, yeah, I would say so. Yeah. Yeah, let me that's so much. Sorry, there was a lot there. There was a lot, but let me uh I'll I'll come back to it. One thing I've noticed you talking about, and you talk about on your uh your um Instagram page too, is the numbing behaviors, right? Yes. So I got stressed and I wanted alcohol to numb that out. I went to the bar, eventually I started using by myself, and then I became more dysregulated, which made me want to drink more. That is not that different. That is not different than the chemsex cycle either. Yeah, right. I get stressed out, I need to or or whatever it is. I'm lonely, I'm bored, or I'm I'm I have internalized homophobia, I have whatever shame there is, I want to express myself sexually in an uninhibited way, whatever that is, I'm gonna go do meth to get that, which actually compounds the problem later, right? It's the cycle of it. And so I'm saying all that to say, if you're listening for the listeners, is that this it can be overlaid perfectly with chemsex. Absolutely. Perfectly with chem sex. Um, this is not just an alcohol. We're we're talking about Malu's experience as alcohol, but that this is exactly the same type of of situation. Not to mention every time I do yoga, I'm crying. Like there's something released somewhere and moving around. Um, I've been crying a lot this season of the podcast for some reason, but there's something you are releasing. And and if you are, if you've used meth, also what I've heard from from um my clients is that doing yoga also gets it to come out of your pores. It it's detoxing you as well. If you want to come down and detox, drink a bunch of water and do some yoga and just get your tissues stretching. Um it really does, it really does kind of help you move through emotions that you probably don't know how to articulate. You don't know how to put words. I don't know how I feel, but whatever I'm feeling is moving through me. Yep. You know, so Dallas, so there's so remember I was talking about the three, my three steps. So that first step, I didn't give you a sense because I feel like I'm gonna just overwhelm you with Sanskrit words, but the first step is called tapas. So it's tapas literally means fire. It means we are gonna cook. Like I'm gonna cook to you, right? Like, and so that's where you, I mean, a lot of people might grab like a lot of people when they first start yoga, they love hot yoga. Yeah, but there's a reason, there's a particular reason for it. It's because it is a purification process. Yes, and like there's a physical purification. You're like you said, you're moving your tissues around, like the muscles are moving, the you know, the sinews are like finding different places they've never been before. And it's like you're wringing out a towel, you know what I mean? Like it's like all this, all this stuff that was like kind of stuck in there, like you're kind of wringing it out. I know physic physiology is probably that's not it's not as simple as that, but it's like, but it is a purification process from a yogic standpoint because our patterns are all deeply related. So if you walk in a certain way, there's a reason for that, right? Like your gait, right? The your the way that you walk, there's a you are patterned or like the way that you you brush your teeth in the morning. Do you start at the top or you starting at the bottom? Like my teacher always talks about this as a really good example of a pattern. So it's like there's a reason for that. Like you started doing it that way, and you will always do it that way because you developed a pattern. So it's in this sort of tapas, right? When we're building the heat where we're cooking in the in the oven that we can start to untangle the patterning. That's where, and I think sometimes people don't realize, like like you said, the emotional release, like how much of like this is not a real, like uh, this isn't a a real scientific explanation, but a lot of people say our issues are stored in our tissues. Yes. You know, science doesn't really play that out. Like there's a lot of really we don't do science here anyway. Yeah, there's a lot of really good science that doesn't necessarily play this out, but like let's talk about the fact that it's like if I had an injury as a child, right? Um, let's say I broke my arm because I fell out of a tree when I was five years old, that injury stays with me for the rest of my life, right? Like there is a fracture that um that healed itself that now is like you know, there's a spar tissue around it or whatever, and that stays with us. And it's the same on a psychological level, where so in yoga we talk about um something called a vasana. So there it's a basically it's a pattern. That's a that's the easiest way to, but vasanas don't come out of nowhere, they could they come because there was an initial impression that was made on the on the psyche, right? I did this one thing and it felt good, and I was able to to for for a momentary, you know, for a moment in my life, I was able to step away from my troubles. I was able to step away from the sadness and the grief, my internalized homophobia, whatever it is, I was able to, I found relief, and now I want that thing again. Yeah, right. So then we go back. So it's like, so these are called samskadas. So if you think of the word scar, that's kind of what's happening. It's like I created a I created an opening, a wound, and I'm gonna keep opening it until it becomes a pattern, which is a scar. And so it's like, and that is happening on a psychological level from the yogic perspective, right? That every time we do anything, if we continue to revisit that thing over and over and over again, it be eventually becomes a vasana or a pattern. So in in our in the yogic, you know, methodology, as we as we move you through various practices, the idea is like let's start to unwind these patterns. Yeah. So that you aren't stuck repeating the same story over and over again. You know? Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Exactly right. And I'm gonna get I'm gonna get to everything here, but I want to pick up on what you just said. One of the one of the things, so my client who loves yoga, he he also he does he will follow through with whatever suggestions I make, which is which is lovely to have a client like that. Um, but I I I explain I'm explaining this to my clients is that your subconscious is always battling to repeat. It loves the it loves to repeat, it loves that set in stone kind of every day doing the same thing. You know, this is why like you sometimes you drive home and you don't remember driving home or or whatever, and you you're it's always it's comfortable in that predictability and so patterns, you know, vasanas, patterns, patterns, patterns. So I suggest to my clients, like you will fall back into relapse patterns subconsciously all the time. And a relapse will start weeks, months sometimes. It's all one big pattern, one big vasana, you know, and that and you will fall into that very easily. So I suggest doing things like getting out of the bed on the other side, eating, trying to eat with your left hand, walking backwards, you know, or whatever, something to interrupt the normal pattern because it leaves your subconscious guessing, like, oh, what's next? We haven't done this before. And that puts you in charge of your subconscious at that point. Yep. And you know what? And that's why yoga is so good because it you're forcing your body to move in ways like you don't naturally move. Yeah. Right? Where it's like, if I have you on your legs are like on in sort of train tracks, but one leg is forward, one leg is back, and then I have you bend forward and then twist to your right, you don't do you don't just randomly do that when you're you know you're you're walking down the street. That is not a normal, that is not a normal movement. So actually what you're doing is you're rewiring your brain in the process because when you every time you are learning some new pose, or um, or even if you're learning pranayama, like what you're doing is you are re you're creating a new pattern, a different pattern, right? And if you couple that with the trigger or the craving, right, where it's like you have a like you use them as replacement, um, like a coping skill, right? You use it as a replacement behavior. Um, you are actually you're suddenly you're starting to create a new connection where it's like, oh, this thing happens to me and I do this instead. And then your brain is, and it's like, and I have to promise people all the time, because it's like, well, you know what, but tequila is so good. It's like, yes, yes, it is. But but the thing is, like, it's it's gonna get you there faster. But the thing is, like, so is so is sitting down for for 12 minutes and doing, you know, some breathing and a short meditation. Like the level of calm and relief that you can experience is, you know, is it's not gonna be comparable, but it's gonna be good for you, you know, and so it's like it's and it is a practice, and that's where I think you actually do need a little bit of structure and guidance because like when you're not, you know, you're not carrying Dallas around in your, you know, in your pocket 24-7. So you need something else to help you, you know, take those things that you're learning into your life. And that's kind of where yoga, you know, it can be helpful. Like you, and one thing, one thing I try to do with people is to figure out how we can develop a personal daily practice for you. Yes, it can be as little as seven minutes. Like, I mean, we're not talking about a huge time commitment here, yeah, but how can we find a daily practice for you? And it could be any combination of things, a pranayama or a breathing technique and meditation. Three poses, you know, and coupled with a breathing technique, great. Like whatever, whatever you think is doable in your life, let's start, like let's develop that thing and then let's start doing that thing and let's create a habit of doing this thing. Because like the other thing too is a lot of people will tell me, oh, I know you said that our my practice is only 10 should is only 10 minutes a day, but I ended up doing 45. Great, yeah, great. Like I'm you know, I'm stoked for that because like I would have been happy if you told me you did 10, but the fact that you decided, like, oh, 10 minutes came and went, and I still want to keep doing this, like that's great. You know, that means like you are your brain is is starting to find a new pattern, it's creating a new vasana, but it is a it is it is a positive one, right? It is it's life-giving, it gives you the energy to to be in the world, and it is, you know, hopefully making you a more joyful person, you know, productive person, all of those things too. And I would think so, because I think it's probably easy to go to yoga and go through the motions too, without intent without intentional. I was doing that, yeah. Yeah, totally, yeah. And and then my guess is it's gonna help to have somebody like you though as well. So I'm doing yoga and I'm processing all this big shit in recovery, it starts to come through. No, you don't have Dallas in your pocket, but it would be nice to have someone with you know like you to kind of process and know maybe using more yoga techniques, because you know, the the deeper elements you mentioned, the deeper elements of yoga to practice to process this, because it is like you said, it's there's I'm sure you I'm sure you would use breathing, you would do poses to calm the nervous system, you would move through whatever whatever's moving through. Because if you go and do yoga with intention and then all this stuff is coming up, and then you're managing it on your own, you may find yourself in a dysregulated state, right? Yeah, and you know, like when I would teach group classes, I would always have people come up to me at the end and be like, I, you know, all I did was going to child's pose and I just started crying. What's going on? And I was like, Well, you're having a release, like you're having an emotional release, like, you know, and there was something there on a psychological level that you were holding on to very tightly. And suddenly that you've gotten your nervous system to calm down, gotten the muscles to calm down, like you were able to have the release, right? Some people will have, you know, some people like, especially if you're uh you're coming from a more like trauma like background, you might have certain traumatic, you know, uh, I guess like a f flashback or even an emotional flashback where it's like the emotions feel like a certain harken back to a specific time in your life. Um but that's where, you know, and a yoga teacher should be able to help you either find self-compassion, like especially if it's like you're having you're you're flashing back to a to a difficult situation in life, like they should be able to help you find re-regulation in the moment, help you learn, like help you to sit with it, and then also offer compassion to that part of you that like that needs love and has never been loved, like to give you that, give you a tool to be able to find that self-compassion. But then the, you know, a yoga teacher should also like it kind of know our we know our limits, right? I'm not a therapist, so I'm gonna, you know, there are certain things that I'm gonna say, well, that's something you have to kind of talk through with a therapist, but I can give you skills to be able to sit with those things, right? So, you know, meditation, pranayama, like, you know, I've got tools. I'm helping, I can give you tools. And then often what I help people to uh do is so there's a writing technique I like to teach people where it's like we write our fears and resentments. So it's like when things come up, things are going on in your life and you feel really dysregulated. One of the things I do is I, and this is a technique that I learned, and I give it to people because it really does. I do find that it helps, but it's a you basically write, I you know, I fear that, you know, my partner is mad at me. I fear that I am not good enough. I fear, and and and fear here isn't literal, like I'm scared of something. It's not like a phobia, but it's just you've like anything that it has an emotional charge in your life, you phrase it as a fear. Like I fear I'm gonna be like the bus is gonna be late today and I'm gonna be late for work. I, you know, or I resent the bus driver because uh, you know, I'm I fear I'm going to be late for work. So you do this work, right? You and that is one, like you're you're kind of getting it all out, and then you kind of sign this document at the end saying, and now I release my fear, these fears and resentments, so that I can take, you know, into the world, you know, my best self or however you personally want to sign off on it. But it's good to say, I release this, I don't want this. Yeah, and then usually I encourage people to ditch it, like just throw it away, tear it up, whatever, but get rid of it. And that is, and that's a tech, that's one of the techniques I teach. Like, I usually teach obviously more detail, but it's like, but once you start to then do this on your own, like this is part of the self-study stuff. Like you start to see the patterns, like my God, I constantly, and I say this to myself all the time. I fear I am not enough, right? Like that is like a constant, and when you start to notice, like that's a that's that's clearly pointing you to a story. It's a part of your story, right? And how can you then like how can you rewrite that story, right? And yeah, sorry, there I did a little bit of rambling, but yeah, that's the kind of stuff like if somebody came up to me after a class, like that's the kind of stuff I would be offering, you know. Yeah, yes, yeah. So for you listening, you heard me talk about you've heard me talk about journaling a lot. And actually, I just had a thought, I need to do a whole podcast on journaling. Um that the this is one of the big, big benefits of journaling is getting the fears, the resentment, the emotions out of here, out of your mind, all the noise, out of everything, onto paper. It doesn't you don't realize how powerful that is until you start doing it. There there's something about it releases through your hand. I mean, it releases out of you and putting it on paper and then getting rid of it, like you said, there is something really I there is science behind this too, um, with with journaling and writing things down, but there is something very powerful about this. And if you're feeling some kind of I I I fucked something up, or I'm, you know, um I've been rejected by whatever because I'm ugly, un in an uncensored way, just write all that down. You know, yeah. And that is that's kind of shadow work, but it's also like it's moving it out. Because if you don't, it it's gonna static and it's gonna be static and it's gonna filter your thoughts, your behaviors, your words the rest of the day. Getting it out on the paper sometimes just releases it. It really does. And and some and sometimes I'll be honest with you, sometimes I even do it in the middle of the day. I'll just like I'm having, you know what I mean? I'm having, I'm stressed out. Like life is getting hard right now. And I'll just take a minute and like, and I will do my writing. I'll do write my fears and resentments. And some people ask me, well, why do you why are we only doing fears and resentments? Why aren't we doing other emotions? And the thing is because these are root emotions. Yeah. Like resentment is often at the is is what is festering underneath anger, right? It's festering underneath your depression. Depression is anger turned in at the self. It is a self-infliction of anger. You know, it and you know, your anxieties are part of is there's underneath it, there's this fear. What is the fear that is causing you to be anxious? Like some people it's like, oh, well, I'm gonna be late for work. Like that's a fear. Okay, great. But there's something underneath that. There is what's under what's underneath that I'm gonna be late for work. Like, okay, you're scared you're gonna get fired. Yeah, okay. So what's underneath I'm scared I'm gonna be fired? Yeah. That I'm gonna end up, you know, without a home because I don't have a paycheck. Keep going. Right. What are the and so and so in this way, like it is journaling, but it's not like you're not trying to figure out your life. Right. It's not that kind of journey, right? Like I'm just all I'm doing is naming the emotions and getting them out. Like, yep. We're not there's enough self-discovery, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just talked about that. I think I I don't know where it was. There's so many, there's so much I put out this fuck ton of content. I don't remember where I say things, but there was I was explaining this. What's underneath that? And underneath that, and underneath that, and underneath that. Yes. Perfect. I I love it. Um, okay, I want to talk about your three, your I forgot what you call them here, but your your three levels or three principles or pillars. But the first one yeah, triggers cravings. The first one you call uh uh tupus or tapas. Heat. So here's why I call you know, my program is recovery alchemy, because alchemy is like, you know, it's the heat that burns off the impurities that brings out the you know the light inside or the gold inside. What you're saying is so in line with my philosophies in my program, and I love it. Um, but that heat of the you're talking about the heat of the moving of the muscles and and other type of literal heat too, and it's the heat of work. Discipline. Discipline, right. And it's the heat for for you in ChemSecks Recovery, it's that heat of deciding whether or not to click on grinder or not, deciding whether or not to to contact that user buddy, deciding whether or not to completely disassociate and scroll all night. You know, it's in the heat of that, and and when you're triggered, so you're talking about handling the triggers and the cravings. When you are activated is a better word, but triggered, we're gonna say, because it's more recognizable. But when you're triggered, that's the heat. That's that heat turning up, and it's there for a reason. It's there to burn off some of those impurities that got you here. But oftentimes with the trigger, we either give into it, right, or we we run from it, we suppress it, you know, we try to get our attention off of it. But that heat is sitting in that trigger, sitting in that craving and allowing it to run through your body. That's and you do feel the heat. You will sweat without yoga, right? Uh, but wow, what a what a way to complement chemsex recovery is to turn the heat up on the mat, as well as setting, learning how to breathe through and set with triggers and cravings. Did I say all that correctly? That's great. And you know what? It's it's exactly that's exactly right. And you know what's so funny that you said uh the alchemy piece? So my teacher, Rod Stryker, his method is called tantra yoga alchemy. So it's like we're like we're totally aligned. But you know what? So so one thing that I do, so one thing that builds tapas that people it's funny because people are like, oh, this is so easy. Like yoga is easy. And I'm like, okay, here's what what what happens if I put you, what happens if I put you in a pose and I keep you there for a really long time and I tell you, don't move a muscle. Yeah, don't blink, don't, you know, like don't make any of these little micro adjustments, don't lift your big toe. Like, if you note it, like you don't move. And people find it so difficult because it's like, how do I hold this pose, but I don't move, like I can't make a micro adjustment. My neck, it's starting, I'm starting to feel the tension building, right? But I can't move my shoulder. Like the and that is actually it's it's you're building a skill in that moment. You are building, you are learning to sit with discomfort. And the thing that I I saw as somebody who like, you know, went to my AA meetings and stuff is I did not like discomfort. I don't want to feel discomfort, I want to escape it. And so learning to sit with your discomfort on your yoga mat is a great, it's like you are the labyrint in the lab, right? You are you're learning what could what is bubbling up right now when I am when I am holding this pose because Malu said I have to hold it for another three more breaths. Like, yeah, what's coming up? Notice what's what is coming because that is gonna inform that is gonna inform what you do in those moments where you said, like, do I open this, do I open the grinder right now, or can I sit with this emotion? Yes, right? Yeah, can I watch it? Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. Right. Can I feel a little lonely for five minutes, ten minutes? Can I sit with it? Do I have to immediately everything's an emergency, it seemed, you know, in Kimsa in recovery. It's like, I'm horny, I I gotta do something. You know, I I it yeah, I gotta fuck, I gotta masturbate, I gotta fuck somebody, you know, or I gotta jump on grinder, or I'm lonely, I gotta do like it's like sit in it. Sit in it. That is uh it seems too simplified for people because they want this big secret. It's sitting in it without with just observing it, sitting in it. Um, so trigger you triggers and cravings was your first part. Self-study was your second part, your addiction story and your addiction frequency. Let me just say, what is are you in the frequency of an addict? And this is I say this all the time is ask yourself are you behaving as a person who uses meth? Are you in the frequency or have you bought into I am an addict? Because if I'm just if I'm an addict, I'm gonna act like one, I'm gonna think like one, I'm gonna talk like one, I'm gonna be one. Right? So I what is your frequency? Is it I am somebody who uses meth or is it somebody who doesn't use meth? And and what are the characteristics of somebody who uses meth? Inconsistency, non-responsive, um, dishonest, those are the top three I can think of. Um disrespectful to their family and friends. Um and in and so are you showing up as that? Meaning inconsistency, a consistent daily action. You talked about a personal daily practice, ten minutes, seven minutes, whatever, three poses in a seven minutes, a consistent daily practice. Consistency means I'm acting like somebody who doesn't use myth, responsiveness, being open about my cravings and my triggers, um, be showing up on time, you know, being there, showing showing up for myself, like dishonest. Are you being completely vulnerable and transparent? So this is uh what frequency are you in? I've never used the word frequency because it people get think I'm woo-woo anyway, but you know, this is such a good vibration. Vibration. Are you in the vibratory place of somebody who uses or not? Ask yourself that all day long. And you know, Dallas, like, and it's uh the it we there's an addiction frequency, but there's all kinds of other frequencies. Yeah. And we pick up on we pick up on these frequencies whenever we are in in touch with somebody. There's the nervous frequency, and you can just tell, oh, this is a nervous person. This person is is just she she's she's she she's anxious about everything. So and that is a net can be a natural baseline. I'm not saying that there's anything like necessarily like good, bad, or indifferent about those frequencies, but then figuring out that you want to vibrate at a different frequency. And what is that frequency? And it's I like the way that you tie it to behaviors where it's like, you know what? Like, there's a frequency that is honest, there's a frequency that shows up and is disciplined and is like the has a time every single day that he does his sitting, you know, for seven minutes and he never misses he never misses his sitting, right? Yeah, and it's like, you know, I'm sorry guys, I you know, I have I'm gonna be 15 minutes late because I have to sit and do my meditation first. Yeah. And which is do you want to be that person? I would I that's the person I want to be, you know. That's right. That's right. Which is another characteristics I forgot. Boundaries. When you're using meth, you have no fucking boundaries. Love it. Right? If you're somebody who doesn't use meth, you have boundaries. Sorry, guys, I can't come out tonight, you know, because like you said, or I I'm gonna be late, you know, just boundaries about this is this is what I tolerate, this is what I don't tolerate, this is what I do and what I don't do, that kind of thing. Um, and and I don't say yes when I mean no, those type of behaviors, right? And I think the self, the other piece of that, uh, and it ties into the identity piece, is like trying to identify it is a it's a boundary issue where it's like, what things are you are you just like you just won't cross that line anymore. Like even if other people are doing it, are you willing to sacrifice like a momentary discomfort of telling someone no so that you can stick to the vision that you have of what your life is gonna be, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah, yes. So identity is your third, and I've seen you comment on some of the my content all the time, Dallas. I'm in your comments all the time. Um, when I'm talking about this prophetic vision, like you said, who are you becoming? Who who are you becoming? Who do you want to be? This is the thing I I just I this of the this is the foundation of my program. And I think the foundation of any it is where it starts, and you don't think it starts here, but how do you show up after you're finished with myth? What does your life look like? Sit down and get into the state you mentioned between waking and sleeping. I call it twilight state. Love it. Get into that state and start to imagine what is a what is the perfect day for me? What is the dream that I have? Where am I? How am I dressed? What do I look like? Who am I with? What do I live in? Where am I? And what is the state of consciousness? How does that feel? I'll bet that it I'll bet the first thing you want to feel is peace. You want to feel content, you want to feel love for yourself, right? Feel all of that. But who am I becoming? How do I show up? If you don't know where you're going, you're not going to move forward. And so many of you, so many guys though have been using for 10 years, 20 years, they don't know life besides meth is part of their ecosystem. But the thing is, is that it's hard to imagine, but you can't be a new identity unless you start to imagine what that viscerally connect to who that new identity is. Yeah. And you know what I tell people too is it's you, you are already that thing, right? When I have you develop a sunculpa, yeah, you are writing about someone who already exists. He's there. He's just not, he's just not in charge. He's back here, right? Because like I'm not, I'm not inventing a life where I'm saying I'm gonna have a million dollars, I wear Visachi suits, and I'm, you know, no, like that, that is totally not, has no relation to who I am. But when I create a sankulpa about the kind or your you you call a vision, when you create that vision, that vision is actually an authentic person that exists. Yes. He is you, and all you have to do is somehow allow him to step forward. You have to get, you have to get the addictive self to move out of the way, which is all that other stuff we talked about, tapas and your um, and and doing your your self self-reflection so that you can get him to step out of the way, and then you allow that authentic stuff to step forward. Yeah, and so it's like you are like it's I call it being and becoming. Being because you are already perfect, yeah, but becoming because you are stepping into something that is even more perfect, right? Like you are on a process of evolution. That's exactly right. I call it my perfected self, my my best and highest self, right? Yes, exactly. Highest self, highest self. And I I tell my clients, you know, I think it goes over some people's heads or they ignore it, or or I feel I sound kooky, but sometimes I have to borrow energy from him because to me, he's already faced what I'm facing. And sometimes I prayed to him and I'll say, like, I I don't know what to do here. But I'm I'm I'm open to an answer from you. Yeah, that's my higher self, which is me. The perfected version of me is my higher self. Right. My my higher power. And you want him in charge, you know, and he's not always in charge because we are human beings and we have we put on masks, we put on, we take on um habits, we you know, we've gone, we've been through a life. Right. Which are those impurities, right? The impurities, the habits, the beliefs, the the intrusive thoughts, like all of that shit that's been given to us, put on us by the world without our consent. And so this work of life is burning that off and unpeeling that off so we can have our true self back. It's really a return, a return to home, uh return to self, right? So I just want to like, yeah, and I I so the thing I always so I do I do a lot of work within the heart. And so in yogic philosophy, there is this idea of jytir, which is like if you imagine a flame at the center of your chest, or sometimes it's described as a pearl or a pinprick of light, like a star in your chest. That is the jytir means the light that is beyond all sorrows. And that is your true identity. Your true identity is this light that is beyond all sorrows. And so the our work is to connect with the light that is beyond all that dwells in all of us, like you know, or if you want to be woo-woo, we are all stardust, right? Right, but it's like how how do I can how do I get myself aligned with, like you said, the high that highest self, right? Yes. And finally, you mentioned mantras or uh something, some word you said nidra or something. Sunkoppa. Okay, some gopa. Yeah. So listen, guys, if you don't know what else to do, if you don't know how to what to pray or to meditate, or you don't you're having trouble coming up with a vision, use a mantra. And it can be very simple. I am someone who is chem sex free. All you have to say. And here's the thing is then when you say it, you have to be certain that it's going that your desire. I'll I this is what I believe. I believe any desire you have has it can only be in existence if there's a way to it. If there's a path to that desire. If that's my true desire to become chem sex-free, the path to that is out is laid out for me. In that path could be a relapse or two or three. That could be part of the path to get to where I want to go. But I think it's our our job to just is to trust that that everything is working in our favor. And I am somebody who is chem sex-free. No matter what the five senses tell me, that's who I am. That's my my saying. No, I love that. Yes, and it's and I I it's right. And you know what? Like, actually, if anyone takes anything from this, like after this podcast is over, go write your own sunculpa. Make it present tense, you know, sit down and think about that vision of that person that you want to be, and uh write a sentence that is aligned with that person, right? What does that how does that person move through the world? I am joyful and I make choices out of compassion for myself and others. I what you know, and I these can be very simple, but you have it be something that you repeat to yourself. Put it on a post-it, stick it on your mirror so you don't have to look at it when you write brush your teeth. Repeat it to yourself when you see yourself in the mirror. I am beautiful and I I make choices that reflect my beauty. Like do and and and incorporate and it actually, and then another thing that I tell people to do is as you're falling to sleep, every night as you're falling to sleep, because you're gonna reach that state, right? That state before you fall asleep, which is where it reaches the subconscious. Yeah, and if you are repeating your mantra or your sunkopa, whatever you want to affirmation, you're repeating it to yourself as you fall asleep. That is that's a beautiful way to fall asleep because it's you're gonna seed it into the subconscious. Yes, yeah. Yeah, my my client who loves yoga is going to love this because he he took his he took his prophetic vision from the program and he has it on his bathroom mirror, and he has it up here and here, so he's in the middle of it. And then when he travels, he puts it in the bathroom mirror of his hotel. Very dedicated and very successful in the in the program. So Malu, wow. Wow, this was uh this was deep. This was great. I love this discussion. This gave me energy. Um and so did I leave anything out though? Did I forget anything? Is there something that you wish we had talked about that we didn't? Um, no, I think that that covers a lot of it. I think you know, yoga, however you can find it, like go toward it. Like take a class at your local studio. You can also find me on Instagram. I actually have a a free mini course, which I offer on my Instagram if you just want to take a taste of some practices. Good. And it's like it's a four video, you can binge it in you know, less than an hour and get on your way and developing your personal practice. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Please go follow Malu on Instagram. And you know, it's interesting that one of the one of the reels that's pinned here is talking about five poses for loneliness instead of going to the bar. Um, but who knew you're lonely at home? Do some yoga moves. You know, release it. Move it around. Exactly. Journal. Like there's so much you can do. Move your body. Don't turn on Netflix or porn or TikTok. Or do this first. Do this first. Do this first. Yeah, like do this first and then see how you feel, you know. Exactly right. You're exactly right. Because you do something you you do something you need to do to do something you want to do. Oftentimes that works, but if you do, if you did some yoga first and you got out of and released some shit, then when you get on to TikTok or get on social media, you're you're probably looking through it at that point through a different lens. Yeah, you changed your frequency, right? Yeah, frequency. Yes. That's right. There it is again. Uh thank you for being here. I really in your comments often, early and often. I'm gonna get into yours. I'm gonna get into yours. I yeah, um, I want to scroll more. Nobody ever, you know, nobody ever said that, right? Um, I do want to scroll more. I've just been creating, creating, creating, and not consuming. I know. So it's a it's a whole job ending never ending. All right, guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you're uh want to make a comment, please comment on Spotify or YouTube. Contact me directly. I'm everywhere at all times. And I please you could also contact Malou, and we'll put his uh Instagram and contact information in the show notes. All right, have a great day. See you next week.