EP 3:35 Dallas Interviews His Kids AfterMeth

Supplemental Study Guide: https://www.recoveryalchemy.org/newsletters/blog/posts/kids

In this deeply personal milestone episode of The AfterMeth Podcast, Dallas Bragg marks eight years in meth recovery and his fiftieth birthday by sitting down with the two people at the center of his story: his adult children, Liliana and Jonah. There is no script and no list of talking points—just an improvised, unguarded conversation that returns to the day, eight years earlier, when the two of them picked Dallas up from jail while he was homeless and drove to a park, a turning point that convinced him to put his children first and leave meth behind. Together they trace the hardest stretches of that period honestly, from the hidden use and the crimes his kids were unknowingly pulled into to the eviction, the time in West Virginia, and the painful season when Liliana stopped speaking to him, alongside the small, surprising ways their relationship not only survived but grew closer through it all.

What gives the episode its weight is the perspective his children offer on recovery and reconciliation from the other side of it. Liliana and Jonah reflect on how a relationship built before the addiction made forgiveness possible, how Dallas addressed and apologized for what happened rather than papering over it, and how his actions—not just his words—proved the change was real. Their advice to other children of parents struggling with addiction centers on grace, honesty, communication, and giving both people time to heal, while Dallas speaks directly to men who grow discouraged when family trust doesn't return in thirty, sixty, or ninety days, encouraging them to keep becoming a better version of themselves and trust that the rest follows. The result is a testament to the episode's core message: that there is life after chemsex, that broken relationships can be restored, and that recovery is often something a whole family moves through together.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

But this is what's best. Like I I have to be true to myself, and one of these days they're going to understand that. Um and it and it did come true. So after I came out and and after all of that, the divorce and everything, the three of us began to get closer and closer. And I think when meth came along, yeah, it put a spin on it. But it I think that made it a little easier for us to come back. Chemsex. Sexualized drug use among men who have sex with men, typically involving methamphetamine, methadrone, and GHB, among others. Chemsex misuse is a worldwide epidemic that needs attention, dialogue, and hope for those lost in it, which is the purpose of the Aftermath Podcast. Please note the views expressed by the host and guest on this podcast are not to be taken as medical advice, and the content around sex and drug use can be triggering. Alright, welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast and a very special episode this week. Um, this week I celebrate eight years since I've been in meth recovery, and my 50th birthday, all in one week. Uh my 50th birthday is August 5th, and it was about eight years ago, 2018, August 7th, I believe, August 7th, that these two people on here on the podcast with me today, who are my children, directly from my loins.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Yay! What an honor.

SPEAKER_04 1:27

Yep. Liliana and Jonah and Dr.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Jonas Bragg.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

No, that's not yet. He's changed his name to Jonas for some odd reason today.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Well, that's because I signed in with Google and that's my Google name. Don't even worry about it.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

Okay. Well, we could probably change it in the editing. Um, but yeah, it was eight years ago that um these two picked me up from jail. I'm sure you've probably heard the story, or if you listened to episode number two in this podcast, um, I was homeless at the time. And um I meant to try to find the picture. So we took a picture that day um and put it on the screen, but and maybe I can still do that. But we um Lily Dorot was driving, of course, and we went to the park and had a talk. And um, that was the day that I just decided like I have to I have to put myth behind, and I have to put these two first because they needed a parent at the time. And so for the first night or two, maybe two nights, I don't know. I don't remember now. Um you two stuck me into your mom's apartment. She wasn't there.

SPEAKER_06 2:46

Wasn't much sneaking.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

Yeah, yeah. Well, she wasn't there. She didn't she she may not know still until she.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Please, Stephanie, you're not watching this. Hey, mom.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

Um, yeah, maybe. Nothing she can do about it now. Um, but I was able to to sleep there for a couple nights and then rode the bus back to to Charlotte to get work and start this whole journey that we've been on. So um, Liliana, if you want to tell us, I don't know, tell us anything you want to tell us about you, and then Jonah, you can too if you'd like.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

About me? Like yeah, what do you want us to know? I'm not good with bios, I guess. Um you know, I guess just became independent very young because of this scenario, and just made me who I am today, I guess. Just very much need to do everything for myself because if I'm not doing it for myself, it's not getting done. So made the move to Wilmington to go to school and just been here ever since, and now I am an assistant property manager at an apartment complex. So living alone, have a cat, kind of just living my best life. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

Thank you, Jonah.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Um, I am an install manager at Little Heating and Cooling. I do HVAC. I've been doing it for quite some time now, and lately have been just trying to lock in with staying disciplined, you know, cleaning up around the house, making sure I'm cooking my meals, just making sure I'm, you know, doing stuff that's you know has meaning behind it instead of you know being lazy and lying around and stuff. Um so yeah, I kind of just hang out alone a lot and don't really do much um except just kind of try to work on myself and you know do what I can to make myself better. And you also live by yourself, also live by myself. Um, luckily, it's very nice being living alone. Agreed.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

Agreed. All of us live alone now, the first time.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah, that's yeah, wild. Would love to live with y'all again, but definitely love the space. I would love to.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

No, it'd be cool. We could run it back sometime.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yeah. No, I think we have a compound where we all have our own places to go home.

SPEAKER_04 5:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Be nice. Yeah. Compound.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Or of course.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

When I start my cult. We can do that.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Which I'm sure we're following.

SPEAKER_04 5:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Cult.

SPEAKER_04 5:35

Cult.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

Yeah. You know what that is?

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Uh yeah, why are you starting?

SPEAKER_04 5:41

Well, they have compounds. A cult usually has like a compound.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

I see. Like from uh, you know, servant.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. The show a show all of us a servant is a show all of us have watched together. It's we were we always it was difficult sometimes for us to find shows that all three of us were into when we were living together.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Honestly, you feel like it used to be difficult for us to find a lot of stuff we were all three mutually into. Um but now we've kind of grown closer together and just really enjoyed each other's presence instead of really caring about what we're doing. At least for me, I don't know about you guys, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah, I agree. I definitely feel like growing up and being it's different than having like a relationship with you guys as a kid versus having one as an adult because now it's like we're friends and family. Like, yes, we've all friends, but it's like now we can actually be adults about what we do and how we do. And like Jenna was saying, just be intentional about quality times because we do live in different places as well.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. So we didn't we we didn't prepare questions today, we didn't prepare talking points. Um I asked the kids This is all improvised. As you could probably tell very that it is. But I get a lot of questions from family members, and I hear uh and I talk to a lot of men whose kids won't talk to them anymore, um, whose family has turned their backs on them because of what they did while using. And so we we have a different story, and so I want to share that um here. So I I want to start with you know, that you two were pretty really young when I was going through my meth addiction. Um so we're talking eight years ago.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

So Lily, you were 17, 16, I mean yeah, I would say to like towards the end of it all, like starting it, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

Yeah, like 15. Right. And so there there's some some things that and the thing is is that I I in the beginning was doing, I think, a good job of hiding it. So I had 50 50-50 custody, um, and so you all would come stay with me for a week, on a week, off a week. Um, and so in the beginning I was using while you were gone. Uh, but that quickly led into using while you were in the house.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Which is crazy because you know, I was trying to think of stuff to prepare for this, and obviously I couldn't. But one thing that did come to mind was I don't know if you remember that time someone was blackmailing you uh, and you know, you went to Lily attenders like, you know, for money, and you said the photo they were like blackmailing you with was you using in front of us, and I just have zero any sort of recollection of that. Like I had no idea that whole time until you told me. I even if I saw you do it, I just I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

I mean, I don't even remember that. Like it kind of sounds familiar, but I don't like I remember this story, but I don't recall you coming to me at Tinder's and asking for stuff, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_04 9:13

Yes, somebody somebody had a picture of me. I I think I was holding a pipe, and the the bedroom door had opened, and one of you were was walking by. So all in the same photo was me holding a pipe and you in the background. So it wasn't exactly me using in front of you, but it was something that they thought that they could blackmail me with. And at the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

Yeah. So what I would do is I would smoke, we would all smoke in my room and keep the door locked. And so when you all wanted to come in, you would knock on the door. And so everybody would put their pipes away and you would come in and you really didn't know what was happening.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Because I was gonna say there just isn't I if there was a smell, I couldn't even tell you what it would be.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

There's not a smell with meth. I mean, you uh once you're in it, you can kind of smell it, but it it vapors pretty pretty quickly. That is in terms of you can't really smell. It's like using a vape kind of right.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Because I was gonna say, if I ever did even smell it, I would not even realize that I didn't.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

You know, that might kind of check out because sometimes after like walking into your room, you know, when it was a little cloudy and stuff, and I would start feeling like some type of way, and you know, maybe it was just like some sort of secondhand I think you're making up.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

You're making that up. Yeah, you're making that up.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

New blackmail story. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

Yeah. So so given that, you know, and here's the thing is I don't, you know, we don't I don't want to have a podcast full of remember that time, remember that time, right? Um, which which is fine if those memories come up, but I I do want to have a podcast that gives people hope that there's reconciliation and gives men it helps men feel like they're not alone in the things that they did. So some of the things that you must remember that I did was sp specifically for you, Lily, is you know, when I got deep into shoplifting, um, I had you help me steal a printer from Staples. Um, you all provided the getaway car for me to when I would steal big loads of stuff from Walmart.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

I remember that with remnant.

SPEAKER_04 11:28

Yeah. Right. Yeah. So you were accessories to crimes, I mean, basically.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

And it was like fun. It was like, let's say you can get away with it. But now looking back, it's like very an uncomfortable feeling, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 11:44

Right. I mean, if I would have been arrested, you know, what kind of what kind of trauma would that have caused?

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Or a different thing. Right.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Right. Right. In front of you.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah, in front of us, right.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

Um, and you, Lily, I I took, you know, I wrote bad checks on your checking account. You were at the mall with your friends trying to buy something, and you were overdrive, you know, you were overdrawn, you were stressed, you were embarrassed, you were a teenager, and you know, and then you found out that I had you know, there were bad checks written on the account.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Because I saved up so much money from working. Yeah. And then it was all gone.

SPEAKER_04 12:23

And there was a time during that period that you did stop talking to me.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Yeah. So I was gonna bring that up too, and because it was just so emotionally hard for me because we were so close. And then like you were just gone, I guess. So that was just really hard for me to work through because I just because I think if I remember correctly, the time period that you were gone in West Virginia is we had known you were on meth and you went there because you were homeless, right? Yeah. And then when you came back, that's when I pretty much had a panic attack because I just didn't know how to handle it or want to maybe confront the feelings of seeing you again, I guess. But I mean I watched a movie which is so random, but a quiet place and the dad in that, like for some reason it just like clicked in me to like want to talk to you again. So I just remember that day I reached back out to you, and then I think that's when we met at like the subway or something in between, yeah, and then it just kind of go went up from there because I realized I'm like, this is my dad again, and I could tell you were obviously trying to work on yourself and trying to get better, and like that's just what I personally needed to see. And on top of that, it's really inspiring to watch somebody go through that and then also be where you are now. It's I mean, that's what I look up to whenever I'm in hard times as well. It's like hard times is also um different for everyone. Like that might have been your rock bottom, and someone else's rock bottom could have been different, but yet you I guess I'm just talking in circles at this point, but no, it's just really inspiring to see get all the way back up and flourish, though. Right, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, that's why I should have prepared something. I can't even think.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

No, no, no, you're all good. I sent you all good. Um something I want to bring up is how the fact that the whole time he was using while we were living with him in that apartment, and um, you know, he he still took care of me and Lily. Um, you know, he would make sure there was dinner every night. Um sleep and stuff. Yeah, it may have been the same, you know, same few meals, but it was still it was still dinner. You know, it like um gosh, there was something I'm gonna follow up that follow that up with, but he basically still took care of us. And you know, sometimes like if I had a nightmare or wasn't feeling good or whatever, you know, I'd go crawl in bed with him, and you know, he still just took care of us, like he still still would put us first, even though he was like had a pretty heavy addiction, he would never like put the meth first, which is something that you know I'm thankful for. I think that went a very long way for me and my sister for our futures.

SPEAKER_06 15:48

Um and you know, just couldn't be more grateful for the okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

I don't want to get emotional. Um it's just it's interesting um to me that you see it through that lens when I saw it through the lens that I was always putting meth first. You know, you what you didn't see, I mean, yes, I did make sure, I did make sure you had dinner every night. You didn't know when you went to bed. A lot of times I would leave and be gone all night. And you said you got in bed with me. I mean, thankfully, you never came to my room with a nightmare when I was gone. Um But you know, there was just times there were so many times I did put meth first. Um, I mean I got us evicted. You know, obviously I did put it first um to some degree, right? But I I to hear you to hear you two um talk about this, you know, that that time, I think that uh it occurs to me that I've probably exaggerated and I've probably catastrophize it a little more and see myself worse than than maybe it was.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Yeah, and I feel like just to piggyback off of what Jonah was saying, is there might have been a time or maybe your feelings of how where you put it first. And I can say I think there was a time where I came to the realization of you were putting it first, but it was an addiction in a way, but it was only like a small amount of like the whole two-year process, like specifically the eviction, you being homeless kind of era. That's when I was like, this is getting a lot, this is kind of crazy, and you don't know how to process that. I mean, there are so many memories that I don't remember. I like blocked out because of just not wanting to even think about what life was at the time. Yeah, but again, it was just such a small part of it of the whole thing. Cause again, like Jonah said, yeah, like dinner was there, there was food. We did have a place to stay, and it's not like you were that far from mom either. That in the event that we did need something, we were close to our other parent. So that was really nice as well. But I just I mean, again, off of just me being independent, like I didn't really feel like I needed anyone. And I don't know if that's just like the a rebellious teenager kind of deal and want to do everything myself as well. But yeah, I guess that's a period.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

So why why you were the last you were the only person that would answer my call from jail like the third and fourth time? Um why did you keep answering my calls?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Who else would? No one else would. And if I didn't do it, then you'd still be there. Obviously not to this day, but I mean Janice wasn't answering. I'm not sure who else you called, but probably like friends at the time. But I just felt like I had to be there for you. I've always I wouldn't say always, but there's just been situations in my childhood where I've been the parent for both of my parents, and that is one of them for you.

SPEAKER_06 19:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Is I just had to be there for you because no one else was. I also wanted to be there for you because I I mean that's really painful to go through to listen to your father and like get a call being like, Do you want to accept this call from Mecklenburg County Jail?

SPEAKER_06 19:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

And then you're it's like your voice, like Dallas. I'm like, oh my gosh, like it's so it was hard. I mean, yeah. But I wanted to be there for you. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

Well, I'm really grateful that you were.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Well, did you call me?

SPEAKER_04 19:58

You you couldn't drive, and I I don't know. So no, I didn't. I'm sure you would have picked up. I think.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

I just remember uh bomb pulled me out of school, I think, like the day you went to jail. I don't remember all the details, but you know, she was telling me about it. And I think Lily, is that when we met up for lunch or something and then drove straight to the jail?

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Or when mom took us out of school.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

When she took us out of school.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah, she took us out of school and then took us over to his house as if seeing it is something that we needed to see. And that was traumatizing in itself because the door was gone. And it's like, this is my place of living, this is my home. And it's trashed.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Why is it trashed?

SPEAKER_02 20:49

I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Really? I thought she took us to lunch and then she probably did take us to lunch, but maybe she took us over there because we needed to grab something. I'm not sure probably what it was. I don't know.

unknown 21:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:04

So you I mean, basically, that's when the police came the first time and they busted my door in down and and went through and rifled through the entire house. And so you got to see that, unfortunately, while I was in jail. Um, so that so when that's when you got me from jail um and I started on this journey, right? I wanted to get us a place to live, I wanted to get us back on track. Um so what do you do remember, like what I I guess my question still is, you know, what what do you why do you think that you never held a grudge toward me or or or or even just held it against me or at all that you were so displaced, you know, uh um you were displaced and you're put here and you're put there, and then you finally Finally, when I got the money, we finally got able to be a little bit stable. What what was it that do you remember anything about your thoughts around me?

SPEAKER_01 22:12

I mean, going back to me, I guess I kind of you know, at one point I did hold a grudge. And then I think I let it go because I finally was like, when I talk to you, it's like every bad thing goes away. I think that because we have such a good and close relationship before and during.

SPEAKER_05 22:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

And it was like I just wanted to just go back to that.

SPEAKER_05 22:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

And from my memory, when you were staying at the apartment, like mom's apartment, because you did stay there for more than two days.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

So we I ended up taking over a little while from yes, that apartment lease, because she had moved out with her boyfriend. So yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

So yeah, you took over the lease or however it was done. And then I could just see you were trying.

SPEAKER_05 23:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

You know? So that's just kind of all it took for me. And then not I don't want to bash mom or whatever. I just mean at the time you were also the only parent.

SPEAKER_05 23:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

So it's like, let me latch on again to someone.

SPEAKER_05 23:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

That's kind of how it was for me, I guess. Because who's to say uh my relationship with mom would be different if she had come back at that same time?

SPEAKER_06 23:30

Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

But the difference is you stayed there throughout my life, besides a tiny little blip, like when you were just trying to heal yourself.

SPEAKER_05 23:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

And I can un I can just understand that.

SPEAKER_05 23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Even then I could just understand you needed to take time for yourself, you know?

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Mm-hmm. So me personally, I don't know. I must have just like had faith in you or something. Because I just have no idea.

SPEAKER_05 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Maybe seeing how hard you were working to change things, you know, showing that you really wanted to change. I I have no idea. I I don't remember. I don't know. Maybe it was my only option.

SPEAKER_04 24:18

Yeah, I mean, you went through some things that maybe you didn't even realize, you know, because again again you were displaced from your friends and moved to a new county when I did find a place for us to live. It was out of county, right? So I took you had to take you out of your school and everything like that. Um, you lost a lot of weight and you stayed in your room most of the time.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Maybe, maybe that's you know, maybe I was just too focused on other things to even notice.

SPEAKER_04 24:50

Yeah. Yeah. But and you and you had some separation anxiety. You always needed to know where I was at all times and what time I was going to get back.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Yeah. Which I didn't realize until remember a month ago, I was looking through our old text messages.

SPEAKER_05 25:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Um, I really didn't realize that until I went back and reread it.

SPEAKER_05 25:16

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Who cares where I was?

unknown 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

He wasn't concerned about that.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

I would text Dad, is she coming back?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah, the whole time I'm sure he knew I was always coming back.

SPEAKER_04 25:33

Yeah. Um, yeah, I think you make a good point, Lily, in that we we had the three of us established a strong relationship before meth. Um and our relationship, I think, got really strong after I came out, even though it was that was a little rough time too. Um, but I just I just always knew in the back of my mind, like, this is going to be rough at first, but this is what's best. Like I I have to be true to myself, and one of these days they're going to understand that. Um and it and it did come true. You did. So after I came out and and after all of that, the divorce and everything, the three of us began to get closer and closer. And I think when meth came along, yeah, it put a spin on it. But I think that made it a little easier for us to come back.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Yes. I think that if that relationship wasn't established before, I think there would be some grudges held still, regardless of you coming back or not, honestly. Because it's also not like you haven't ever addressed the issues anyway. Like you have addressed what happened, apologized, and we've forgiven you. It's it would be so different if we just didn't talk about it and just tried to move on. Because then I'd be like, but there's this era that we're just completely ignoring for what reason.

SPEAKER_05 26:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

There's no point to ignore it because it just makes you stronger on.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

It's also part of this the fact that you didn't just apologize and say that you wanted to be better. You did it. You know, you took the action and gave it your all to improve yourself. And that, you know, obviously actions speak louder than words. You were showing us visibly that you wanted to be better, not only for us, but for yourself.

SPEAKER_04 27:27

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I think that's a good point for those out there who I think I see a lot of guys they're they're doing really well for 30, 60, 90 days. You know, they're to them, they they know they've changed and everything's going well, they're doing so good, and they get upset because family members aren't supporting them yet, or they're not convinced, they don't trust them yet. They don't they're not convinced that they've changed. Um, and I just I I know for me, I never I never tried to say, hey, look at me, I'm this, hey, look at me, I've been this sober this long. Hey, look at me. Like I did try to just sit back and say, if I just keep doing my thing, and if I keep getting better and better as a person, I know they're gonna notice. They're gonna have to notice. And I want them to notice on their own without me saying, Hey, notice me. And and I think it interviews.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

It's a very yeah, it's a very good way to go about it. You just gotta trust the process.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Your own life and prove to yourself that you can be better for yourself because that's gonna be that's gonna show other people that you have been growing. Because if you're going over being like, I'm better, I'm better, like you gotta show it. For a long time.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

Yeah, yeah. Yes, exactly right. So, and then we did it. But I and I think I tell people like uh it wasn't just me in recovery, I think it was all three of us in recovery, you know. Um, we were recovering our fra our relationship, recovering our lives together. Um, you saw me, you all saw me at my worst. Um, really at my worst. And um, and now you've seen me at my best. And and I really needed your support. I really needed your support. Um, I needed you as much as you needed me. And the three of us, I think we just came, we have a level ground. We still do. I think I don't, you know, we I I don't I uh to me, I mean, unless you unless you two have a different perception, I I don't really function as dad when we're together. It's it's like we're friends. But if you want advice, you know, you may ask me my advice on based on my experience, but I don't think that it's you know, it's my it's it's very much like we went through the trenches together and now we're besties. That's what I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

I don't think you've ever been the stereotypical dad, if I'm gonna be honest. Like they say that's dad stand what'd you say?

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Far from it.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

That's why I I feel like their relationship hasn't ever really felt like father-daughter. Like, yes, it is and certain points definitely have, but I think I don't know. Yeah, I think that there's no there's it's not good to compare our relationship to a dad, a father-daughter or a father-son, just because it's never been stereotypical.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

Yeah, I guess that is true.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Very unique.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 30:37

Well, it's very unique. I did, you know, I mean, I there were rules like in my house, if you all wanted to drink, if you wanted to smoke weed, you were allowed as long as you did it at my place.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah, I was gonna say there's only one rule. Pick up after at your place?

SPEAKER_04 30:53

Huh?

SPEAKER_02 30:54

We were doing it everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 30:56

Well, yeah, okay, but I mean you were allowed to at my house. Oh, oh, I see.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

I was saying the one rule was just pick up after yourself, which was Which was never adhered to.

SPEAKER_04 31:11

Yeah, I mean, I I guess I was at the traditional dad, because there weren't no there were no care fors or really a lot of rules.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

You just had trust in each other too. Or that's how I thought it was, at least.

unknown 31:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 31:25

I I just wanted you all to I wanted the one of the main reasons I came out is I wanted you all to empower yourselves to define who you wanted to be.

SPEAKER_06 31:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:35

And you're not going to do that unless you have experiences. So if you wanted to experience with, if you want to experiment with weed, do it. And if that's a part of your beingness, then do it. You know, it was it's not. It never did. I mean, neither one of you have had any kind of drug issues or any kind of addiction issues. Um, but I I just I just wanted you all, I just wanted you to develop your own rules and to sell, and and maybe that's not textbook parenting. Maybe you know, there's a lot of people who would say that that was incorrect, but uh look at you two now, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

I think that might be the move, and I think maybe more people should try that. Uh for the most I don't know. We we kind of grew up very well.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

I was just gonna add, I kind of wish I had slightly more discipline because I think that would help me with my habits today. That could also just be a personality flaw. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

Yeah, no, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Jonah has discipline, and that's just something I try to work on. So I'm like, I don't know, maybe it's a nature versus nurture. Maybe he just learned it faster than I did, but or maybe it is it was necessary for me to develop younger that I didn't have.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

But yeah, yeah. Well, I I wanted to also I wanted to say on the podcast, or wanted to say this to you both, is just uh, you know, and I've said this to you, but just how proud I am of how well you've developed and you've become very strong, mature, secure, stable individuals with lives that I wish I had at your age. I really wish, I wish I was at the state you're in when I was your age. Or, well, you know, you can't change anything. It happened the way it happened, but um you're you're so far away ahead of of where I was. Um and I just I owe, I mean, I really do owe my life to you both. Because I I know if I did not have you two, I would, I would be dead out there. I would be dead out there, or I would be in prison somewhere for life. Um that I just there was a reason why you two had come along in my life is I needed anchors, I needed responsibility, I needed people to care for, but not only to care for, but to care for me the way that you have. Because you just it the way that you loved me unconditionally, no matter what, you knew I went to jail, your friends all knew I went to jail, you knew that I was doing drugs, you knew I was doing you know, all the stuff that you found out along the way, and you just kept coming back to me, and you just kept forgiving me and asking how to help. And I just I think that's amazing. I think that is those are the type that's the type of person I want to be.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

Well and you are we I think we got it from you. Yeah, I mean, we learned from you, so but I mean, yeah, if anyone watching this saw how things were, you know, eight years ago, six, eight years ago, whatever, probably would have never guessed things would have turned out this way. Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

I I wouldn't have.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

Probably not, probably not.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

I don't know. I feel like I always knew it would be fine. Maybe that's a little too trusting though. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Well, I had my doubts.

SPEAKER_04 35:11

We all did. Um, I don't uh is there anything that I missed today that you you wanted to mention in this podcast or to say to is there anything you would say to other uh siblings, children of addicts, uh uh of people who have a um a chemsex misuse in their life? Like, what would you say to to children who have addicts as fathers, I guess? And and when I say addict, I just yeah, I I I don't like that word, but you know what I mean. What what would you what advice would you have?

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Do you want to go first? I'm thinking I was just gonna say every situation is different, obviously. Maybe not every parent bounces back as quickly or bounces back at all. But and this might not be easy, but just kind of put yourself in their shoes. Like if if the shoes are them trying to better themselves, just put yourselves in those put yourselves in their shoes and just realize it's not easy, and just to give grace and time heals all. So just do what's best for you in that moment, and if in that moment is stepping stepping away, so you can heal as well, then you just need to express that. And I think communication is key and honesty is key. That's something I did want to bring up is I think another reason our relationship is so strong is because we are so honest with each other. Yeah, yeah, there's nothing to hide. I can ask you any question you would answer then and now.

SPEAKER_06 36:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

So as long as the communication and honesty is can be built between parent and child, then the rest of it is just time.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

That's kind of how I see it.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Yeah, that's good. That's valid. That's good. Um, I would say to any children of you know, of parents who are addicted out there, I would say maybe recommend to your parents Dr. Dallas Bragg um he may be able to work miracles.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Thanks for the I was also gonna say, and my to like parent is vi is the same, basically. Put yourself in their shoes and understand how prioritized that they might be.

SPEAKER_05 37:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

They also have to heal in a different way.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

So that's all I was gonna say.

unknown 37:50

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 37:51

Well, and also, you know, we mentioned your mom a few times here, but I just wanna I wanna give a shout out to her in that she could have at some point done something legally to keep me from seeing you two based on my felony charges, based on, you know, the the criminal justice, crim uh justice involvement. And she didn't. You know, I I visited her once and I begged her not to, um, and she decided not to. And I'm so glad that she did. Because I I I I I don't know what I would have done if I couldn't see you. I mean, you were you were my lifelines, and and maybe maybe that wasn't right to put that on you, but you definitely were my lifelines for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

Yeah, big shout-outs to her, because you know that was very selfless of her. Yeah. So yeah, definitely appreciated shout-outs.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

If she did do that, we would be in a whole different scenario, I think.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah, who knows?

SPEAKER_01 38:53

To bond with each other to have that great bond after.

SPEAKER_04 38:56

Yeah. Yeah. So I had the benefit of a lot of people believing in me. You know?

SPEAKER_06 39:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:06

I had the benefit. And I think it's again, it goes back to the relationships beforehand.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

Um, and so I I I would say to you, if you're listening, if the rel you know, if people aren't believing in you, if you haven't if people are turning their back on you, you know, there there may have been there may have been something not established or some some kind of seat of distrust beforehand. But it if you really just zero in on yourself and just become better and a better version of yourself, an expanded version of yourself more every single day. Just keep your you know, keep your eyes on you. I I really believe the rest of it comes falls into place. It may take a lot of time, but it will.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

I completely agree with that. I agree. You just gotta trust the process. I can't, I'm not saying this out of experience. I haven't been in that situation, but you know, I know there's similar situations out there where you do just need to trust the process. Don't worry about the end goal, don't worry about the end goal that you want or anything. Just every day, just focus on the present, pretty much.

SPEAKER_04 40:13

Um, what's next for us, you think?

SPEAKER_01 40:22

A big trip. What'd you say?

SPEAKER_06 40:28

Me? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

It's probably not appropriate.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

Probably not. Probably not. Yes, we're trying we're going to try to make it take a big trip for to celebrate my 50th sometime early next year, hopefully. Um, but we'll see. Um, I I wanted to keep this kind of short just because, you know, we uh don't have a lot to say, but I did, I just whatever we said, I hope that it inspires you to know that there is life after chem sex. There is life after myth, and there are restoration of relationships. Um and people, you know, it it it may not it may look bleak, but it can happen. And um, I'm a living example of that, and these two are too. So and I just wanted to say, you know, again to both of you, really love you, really appreciate you. Um, and I just look forward and I look forward to us continuing on this journey together.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Because it's only gonna go up from here.

SPEAKER_04 41:31

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

I'm excited to live next to you on our street again. Or just a street.

SPEAKER_04 41:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Wait, what?

SPEAKER_04 41:41

She was excited to live with us to live together again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Or or just on a street or in the same neighborhood. Whatever.

SPEAKER_04 41:50

Right. I didn't know we were.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

It's gonna happen. I see it. We are, and even if they decided to live next to where you are, because I doubt you're ever moving ever.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

Was there anything else? I'm just anything else. Anything else you all wanted to say?

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Well, again, I just want to, you know, like you were saying, I love you and I appreciate you um for all the steps forward that you've taken to get where you are now. I couldn't be more proud of, you know, who you've become. I mean, it's crazy, you know, just the transformation you've made. Um, you know, not only you went through a meth addiction, you quit a very strong addiction, which was not easy. Um, again, not saying from experience, but I know that was not easy, but you did what you needed to do, and now you're helping other people do the same. So which is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

As horrible of a time that that was to go through, you would not be where you are with this podcast, with what you're doing in your career now. And I think that this is your calling. I think this is what you were meant to do is to help people through this. And you've already helped, I'm sure, a number of people. And the fact that it just grows and more people look up to you as well. I think that's very inspiring. And you are my built-in therapist, whether you like it or not.

SPEAKER_06 43:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Um just because I know you're so wise, because of all the stories, or I mean all the things that have happened to you just in general. Like you know what great advice to give, I guess.

unknown 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

And maybe I listen to it too well. Maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 43:39

Maybe so.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Blindsided.

SPEAKER_04 43:42

Yeah. Yeah, there is a rule between us. Like, I don't offer advice unless it's asked of me. So that is that is a rule. That is a rule that I have set for me. I I will sit back and let them make their mistakes um on their own. And if which is good. And if you but you've won my advice, I'm always ready. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

So yeah. All right. Thank you guys for being here. Really appreciate you taking your time to be on the podcast. And um if you're you're welcome. Um, you listeners, you want to have joining the conversation, you feel free to comment on YouTube or comment on Spotify, or you can DM me um on all the social media channels. I'd be happy to talk to you. All right. Thank you guys again. Love you for your listening. We'll see you next week.