"Swordheart" - A witty heiress with a sword problem

You ever pick up a fantasy romance because the premise is so simple it feels dangerous? A woman draws an old sword in pure desperation and a man appears, sworn to protect her because the blade says so. That’s Sword Heart by T. Kingfisher, and we go deep on why this setup is funny, tense, surprisingly tender, and way more thoughtful than it looks at first glance.

We start with bookish news and then shift into a real talk moment about AI allegations in publishing: why “AI detector” tools are unreliable, how accusations can snowball without proof, and why these situations can disproportionately impact authors of color. From there, we jump into our full Sword Heart review, including pacing, side-quest energy, and the moment the romance tension finally snaps. Not all of us agree on how the third act lands, which makes the discussion even better if you care about structure in fantasy romance.

Then we get into the stuff Kingfisher fans love: the Temple of the White Rat and its practical, justice-forward vibe, the deadpan side characters, gnolls with perfect comedic timing, and the way one cursed detail can sit in the corner like a tiny horror story. We also answer the questions you’re already asking: is it a kissing book, and does Sword Heart count as sentient object romance? We pull out definitions, argue the gray areas, and absolutely do not stay on the rails.

If you like fantasy romance podcasts, T. Kingfisher worldbuilding, and the kind of reader debate that ends with more questions than answers, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who loves weird romance discourse, and leave us a review so more readers can find us.

Links from the News Segment and Show:

• New JR Ward book coming out April 2027
  • Throne of Frost and Flame, book 2 of the Kingdoms of the Compass series
  • See Episode 56 about the first book
  • Instagram Link
• Opal Reyne announced a new series January 2027
  • “In this new spicy series human women find themselves falling for dangerously tempting masked monsters in a city where humans and monsters are never supposed to mix…"
  • Instagram Link
• Cover reveal for Emily Wilde’s History of Dark Faerie
  • First one releases 01/19/27
  • Instagram Link
•  AI allegations disproportionately affecting POC authors 
  • Recently - H.M Wolfe (Daggermouth), Mia Ballard (Shy Girl), and Jerry Falade
  • Instagram Link

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Transcript

Welcome And What We Read

Mari 0:00

The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the hosts. All creative works discussed or reviewed are the intellectual property of the creators of said stories and are being used under the Fair Use Doctrine. Hello and welcome to Of Swords and Soulmates, a podcast where we read, watch, and discuss fantasy and sci-fi stories spiced with romance and ask, is this a kissing book? I'm one of your hosts, Mari, coming to you from the Decadent Southern Lands, and with me I have Kelly.

Kelly 0:35

Hey everyone, it's Kelly. We also have Ashley.

Ashley 0:37

Hey guys, it's Ashley. We also have Jonathan.

Jonathan 0:40

What's good, everybody? It's JP. Tell me more about The Decadents.

Mari 0:44

Oh, we're gonna learn all about the Decadent Southern Lands and its decadent Southern gods. But for now, we're gonna well, we are gonna be discussing Sword Heart by T. Kingfisher, which is where that comes

New Releases We Are Tracking

Mari 0:57

from. But first, as always, some news. First off, exciting news. Uh, there's a new, well, non-vampire, Jara Ward book coming out. She's got a billion vampire books still coming out. I'm still never gonna get uh caught up on those Black Tiger Brotherhood books. But um, Jara Ward, who wrote uh The Crown of War and Shadow that we did an episode on, has uh released the release date and the cover and everything for the sequel to that. It's gonna be called Throne of Frost and Flame, and it's book two in the Kingdoms of the Compass series, and it comes out April 6th, 2027. It looks really pretty, and the picture on the pages matches up with the picture on the pages of the first book, and she said the whole thing is gonna be like an image.

Jonathan 1:42

I like I like when authors do this because like so it gives them an opportunity to sell twice as

J.R. Ward Sequel And Shelf Habits

Jonathan 1:50

many books. One one for the art installation. So you have them facing the other one way. But then when you want to remember what book you you're reading, you gotta get a set so you can turn it around and see the spines.

Mari 2:01

See, this is why I organize my bookcases by subject matter. So for me, for right now, that book lives on my dragon shelf and I have it turned around so I know what it is because it's the only one with that kind of coloring of my dragon books.

Jonathan 2:16

Nice. I went with the whole like if it fits, it sits. And I just stick them on my shelves.

Mari 2:23

Yeah.

Jonathan 2:24

I can't believe these are horrible.

Mari 2:25

I'll probably get to that point. Like it's it's it's getting a little out of control, but that's fine. I will I will make it work. There's not a lot I can say about the second book without spoiling the first book. It's definitely one where you have to read the first book before you read the synopsis of the second book. So if you haven't read the first book and you don't want to be spoiled, do not read the synopsis of the second book. Just read the first book. But it does look good, and I'm excited. I'll be reading it in April for sure.

Ashley 2:50

Where does she find all this time?

Mari 2:52

I don't know. I think maybe she's just been doing it for so long that she's really good at it. I mean, like you said, she doesn't take time off. Like we did the interview with her. She didn't take time off. She this is what she does. This she has her schedule. She, you know, runs, she writes, she eats, she writes, she eats, she writes. Like this is this is her her like everyday thing. And I think she's taken her very hardworking background and personality and just applied it to being an author, I guess.

Jonathan 3:22

I think one of the ways she said it uh was interesting too, is that like she's not making up a story. The characters come to her and they tell her the story, and she's just putting it down on paper. Yeah. So it's like it's it's almost like the characters are within her are just dictating their story to her, which is interesting. It's very also like she's got a whole bunch of like Alexander Hamilton going on.

Ashley 3:48

I swear that song was just in my head when I like asking the question. Like when you when I saw the book in our notes and I was like, how does she write? Like she's running out of time. Like I just I don't get it.

Mari 4:03

I don't know what you're saying. And Ruby Dixon are like the ones that I will never ever get caught up on. Ever. Um, yeah, but I'm excited about it. So we'll see. I don't know if we're gonna do it for the podcast, but I know I'll definitely be reading it. I guess we'll talk about that.

Masked Monsters And Preorders

Mari 4:19

Second bit of news I have is Opal Rain, famous for her Deskwalker Brides series, Monster Romance, has she's announced a new series. It's called Source Books Casablanca, and it's a masked monsters series. The first one is gonna be released January 12th, 2027. It doesn't have a title, it doesn't have a cover. If you look on her like page by author, everywhere that you used to buying books, you cannot find it. Like you basically had to go to her, I had to go to her um Discord or her Instagram and see how it was listed with a little number to find it to pre-order it. But I pre-ordered it. Um, this is the little like synopsis line that she's released so far about it. In this new spicy series, human women find themselves falling for dangerously tempting masked monsters in a city where humans and monsters were never supposed to mix.

Ashley 5:13

Alrighty then. Sign me up. Yep.

Mari 5:18

Oh darn.

Jonathan 5:20

The in there, like what do you think? So the first one, uh, there's this line uh where it says, I don't bite ellipses unless you want me to. What do you what do you think what can't what kind of monster do you think that is?

Mari 5:31

A chompy one? Yeah, a goofy one?

Jonathan 5:35

Definitely, yeah. Yeah, that might be uh you think she's gonna start off with the it's like the werewolf vampire? Yeah, maybe a vampire.

Mari 5:42

I don't think she's written a vampire, actually.

Ashley 5:45

I was gonna say, I think she's far more original than that. Like I'm expecting something new out of her.

Mari 5:49

Like Welcome to Chupacabra?

Ashley 5:51

Maybe.

Mari 5:52

Ooh, that would be interesting.

Ashley 5:53

Opal you listening, girl.

Jonathan 5:56

I I feel like it's already written. I feel like she's already got that one done and dusted. Now it's I don't know, it'll be interesting.

Mari 6:03

So I know she's written like she's written Dragons, she's written Witches on her Witch Slayer series. She's got the Dust Walkers, which had a lot of weird originality in it. And I know she wrote that in the Oops I Summoned A series that she did. Hers was like a very weird tentacle, sentient monster being thing. In this series of weird books, it was, of course, the weirdest. So I'm excited to see what she does. So we'll see.

Pretty Covers And Audiobook Speed

Mari 6:30

Next thing I have is that the cover, there was a cover reveal for Emily Wilde's History of Dark Fairy by Heather Fawcett. This is book four in that series, the Emily W Emily Wilde series. So it's coming out January 19, 2027, and I'm excited. And I also went ahead and pre-ordered that one.

Jonathan 6:47

You know, these are these are pretty looking books, and I got, I think I've got book one and book two. I bought book two first accidentally because I was like, oh, that's a pretty book. And you know I judge books by their cover. And and so I got the first one, or sorry, the second one, and then I was like, well, I gotta get the first one before I read the second one. Uh so I did that, and now like I haven't read either of them.

Mari 7:10

I think they make for very good listens. That's really good audio production, in my opinion. They make for better listens than read. I like listening to them.

Jonathan 7:18

You know, there's so much out here. Like I want to, I have them, right? I want to read them. Like I just uh I don't know, like I feel like there's just not enough time.

Mari 7:29

And let me tell you, If you remind me, if you guys remind me, next year when we're coming up with what we're gonna read, that in like the first Ice Planet Barbarians would be really good books to read in like January, February in the in the cold, uh cold months that we have in the south here. Um the cold months because they're both kind of icy based.

Jonathan 7:47

Okay, okay. I I've read the I've read Ice Planet Barbarians, the first one. I didn't get past the first one, but I did like it. Like I was I was like, oh dang. Yeah. Um but yeah, no, I would like, yeah, if as long as hey, listen, if Kale is cool with it, I'm down because I I've been kind of chomping at the bit to to find a way to fit them in there. And I'm not listening I have upped my speed. I'm at 2.8x right now.

Mari 8:14

What the fuck?

Ashley 8:15

How do you remember anything? So you it's that's gotta count as word skipping now.

Jonathan 8:21

It does not count as word skipping. I don't believe when you put it at regulation speed, it is like painfully slow.

Mari 8:26

Yes, I I do I do believe that because I started listening, I've I've bumped myself up, Jonathan. Not that it's a competition, but since you bump it up all the time, I'm like, let me try it a little bit faster. So some of the ones I've listened to, I've I've I am now fairly comfortable at a 2.0. And then if I have to go to 1.0 for some reason, I'm like, oh my gosh, they're speaking through molasses.

Jonathan 8:46

Right, yeah. They're just trudging through it. Uh I think like the two the more you do it and the more you listen to it, your brain just kind of adapts to the speed. So I I don't I couldn't have gone to I could not have gone to 2.8 last year. That would have wrecked me. But I started one today on 2.8, and I was like, I was like, because I I read this book on 2.8 and and then I started another one today, and I was because sometimes it's just the narrator is speaks super slow, so when you bump them up, it's natural or it feels more natural because they're their cadence is slow to begin with. But anyway, so when I put it on today, I was like, I hope I don't lose control of this book. And it's like sometimes it is like trying to wrangle in some stuff. Um, and I felt comfortable, so I just I'm letting it go for now and we'll see what happens when I put it on later tonight, what goes on with it.

Mari 9:47

So

AI Allegations And Bias In Tech

Mari 9:48

we'll see. Uh the last little bit of news I have is that there were some AI allegations um against uh HM Wolf, who wrote Daggermouth. Also, so basically, I read this article that was talking about how recently there have been AI allegations disproportionately affecting authors of color, black authors, in the recent months. Like uh there was a big kerfuffle about supposedly H. M. Wolf, who wrote Daggermouth allegedly use AI, Mia Ballard, who wrote Shy Girl allegedly use AI, and Jerry Falod, who was the one who like made this big post about it. And it's interesting because the like the author who spoke about Daggermouth that broke the story, and I'm putting this in quotes, broke the story. Like their article itself doesn't pass the test. And the test is like this AI program that they wrote, but also like Pride and Prejudice doesn't pass the test either. I promise, I promise AI didn't write Pride and Prejudice. Yeah, so it's interesting how the we always have to remember when using technology that technology is created by humans and humans are fallible, and we bring our biases to the table. And we have to take that into consideration in all the technology that we use. And we have to use our brain and we have to use our hearts, and we have to like pay attention to what we're doing and what's actually happening.

Jonathan 11:09

Yeah, I it's there's not really there's not a good program right now for like detecting AI. Especially like I think when I when I pull out people using AI, it's mostly because uh I talk to you for six hours a day and you don't speak like this, and you've never written an email like this, and now you're writing this email and it's mildly redundant. That's AI, you know what I like that okay, that's AI. I can call that out. But when they have uh it's a challenge. I think I saw some Sarah from Hissin and Kissin. I think. I think. Oh no, it wasn't. You know what sucked me into it? It was uh it was you and Sarah uh posting about uh my mortal enemy, HHN, and uh Ozzy Osbourne. Yes, I had to keep it in. So Jack Jack Osborne accused um like a he accused uh journalist of writing a story uh on about AI or sorry, writing a story using AI. And she was like, no, I I write it in Google Sheets and it tracks every change that I make. You can see it word by word. And he's and he put it through an AI checker. So I was like, oh yeah, I gotcha. I think it's good to be skeptical, but we probably without definitive.

Mari 12:31

Also use common sense.

Jonathan 12:32

Yeah. We can we can't point fingers without definitive proof. Right.

Mari 12:37

And you can't just cause people to lose out on contracts or publishing deals or et cetera, based off an allegation, especially when it's disproportionately affecting artists of color. We need to be aware of that. And why is that happening and that that is not okay? Yeah, that that is our biases as a society coming out in the technology that some people have elected to use. I don't know anything about these authors. I know Daggermouth is supposed to be very well reviewed. It's supposed to be like a really good book. I haven't read. I haven't read anything about HM Wolf yet. So I I I don't have any opinion on the actual work. I just know that all these authors deny using AI.

Ashley 13:16

In hindsight, too, HM Wolf was actually at Villains and Dixons. I know. But she was only there on Friday, and I didn't realize it. It was definitely a missed opportunity.

Mari 13:26

Yeah, yeah. Same. I thought that too. That's all I have for news. Do you guys have anything?

Jonathan 13:32

I don't have uh I don't have any news.

Mari 13:35

Okay, that's fine. We have a wonderful book to talk about. So

Why Sword Heart Matters To Us

Mari 13:39

we're going to be talking about Sword Heart, and we chose this book because I've been trying to get us to read this as a podcast, like as long as the podcast has existed. This is one of my favorite books by one of my favorite authors. So, yes, I love this book. Uh, it was originally published November 27th, 2018. It is has been more recently republished, and the sequel is coming out later this month in August. But let me read you the little synopsis of the first book and then we can get into

The Setup And Core Premise

Mari 14:09

more details. Hala has unexpectedly inherited the estate of a wealthy uncle. Unfortunately, she's also saddled with money hungry relatives full of devious plans for how to wrest the inheritance away from her. While locked in her bedroom, Halla inspects the ancient sword that's been collecting dust on the wall since before she moved in. Out of desperation, she unsheaths it, and suddenly a man appears. His name is Sarkis. He tells her, and he is an immortal warrior trapped in a prison of enchanted steel. Sarkis has sworn to protect whoever wields the sword, and for Hala, a most unusual wielder, he finds himself fending off not grand armies and deadly assassins, but instead everything from kindly seeming bandits bandits to roving inquisitors to her own in-laws. But as Halla and Sarkis go closer, they overlook the biggest threat of all, the sword itself. So what'd we think?

Pacing Notes And Third Act Break

Jonathan 14:56

I thought this was a I thought this started off real strong. I thought it was a real good book. Uh it was definitely a little bit of a slower kind of burn. It was a super interesting place to to kind of be in. And then I like and I thought this was I thought the story was cooking, but you knew the tension was gonna was gonna snap eventually. And I just didn't like how it snapped, where it snapped, and like it just it it just happened a little late in this right when I thought the story should wrap up, it the ten it broke and then it didn't get put back together super well for me.

Mari 15:30

So the the third art breakout was a little bit too late in the in the story for you, you think?

Jonathan 15:35

Yeah, when she like when she gave up, when she was like, Fuck out of here, give you up, kind of thing. And um it was very like very much like uh Aladdin kind of vibe, is what I was getting. Like she was trying to get there, but then couldn't quite get there, and then it came back to bite her in the ass, but then it was like, Oh, okay, cool, we can we can we can fix this situation. Um I thought it was it felt kind of stretchy to me. I would have rather gone on it was it needed to happen because it's very much like happily ever after, way too soon. So something had like something had that tension had to get set and then break. I also didn't think like the vibe of like why she got pissed off and walked away was super relevant, right?

Ashley 16:24

I feel like I feel like we had bigger problems.

Jonathan 16:27

Yeah, I don't I think they just honed in on I think they used his uh preexisting crimes as the catalyst to for to caught to that's the nail in the coffin for the breakup, but all that stuff happened like way, way before um before like it didn't there was no bearing. It's like if you came to me and you were like, hey, you know what? In the Revolutionary War, I fucked up. You know, I'm be like, oh okay, but probably I think she felt lied to.

Mari 16:58

I think she trusted him and then it broke the trust. And I think that's what you know maybe like made her overreact about it. Plus, I think the way Sarkis is, the way he presents things, made it seem like a bigger deal than it was, because Sarkis as a sword is so ready to fall on his sword for everything. Um so yeah, I think it was a combination of things. There was definitely um a good thing to have some time together so they can learn how to communicate. Um what do you think, uh?

Ashley 17:29

Yeah, I liked it. Um it felt a little long, like there were a lot of side quests. And I don't know that it needed as many. I mean, I guess there was definitely some trust building along the way so that the trust could crumble with the climax of the third act breakup, right? Um but it the the breakup part felt a little forced. Um I will say that the ending caught me because I in the back of my mind I knew this wasn't a standalone, but I don't think I expected it to end. Like right where it was kind of like that Rebecca Yarros book that ended um, you know, like a quarter of the page in. You flip the page and you're like, oh shit, this was the last page. Yeah. Um it kind of felt like that, like my heart kind of dropped out of my chest and I was like, what do you mean the second sword? And so I had not been emotionally prepared for that. I had been expecting more growth or, you know, epilogue, whatever between them. Yeah, but it was a very good book. I I definitely laughed. I thought her her flavor of tism was absolutely hilarious. I loved her nervous questions and rambling. I I loved seeing that in a female character as well. I don't think that's always done as well as it was this time, if at all. I really enjoyed Zale. Is that that their name? Yeah. I really enjoyed Xale and their kind of like just rational, like not even bland. It was just like the deadpan.

Mari 19:06

Very matter of fact.

Ashley 19:08

Matter of fact, their flavor of chism. There was a lot of chisms rolling around in this book. It was a delight. Uh, I enjoyed reading it. It felt a little long. Uh I I even enjoyed the paladins. I know you gifted me uh one of those books. I've not read it yet. I kind of enjoyed just kind of like, you know, the jock palad that still came to the rescue. I really enjoyed the knoll. There were a lot of really good side characters. Um, and you know I love a side character. I love that the knoll talked about themselves in the third person and their ox in the third person and how just like constantly just like it humans can't smell like duh.

Mari 19:51

Yeah. Of course, I know. I don't know why taking picture doesn't have t-shirts that say that because I would buy all of them. Humans can't smell, and I would wear that all the time.

Ashley 20:01

I that's not smelling. Yeah, there was definitely some you know comedic relief in the knoll. Better not shoot that crossbow close to him, close to an ox. And it's not even my ox or the ox, it's an ox. Yep. And I think I was fortunate because I alternated between listening to the audiobook as well as reading it, and the audiobook definitely added to the character's personalities, which was was very welcome as well.

Mari 20:34

Yeah. Well, I will tell you that when when I first read this and for a long time, I I feel like the first few times I read this, the epilogue was not in there. So I believe it was basically marketed as a standalone for the longest. It was like a standalone book, a stand a good standalone like fantasy book or fantasy romance or romantic, or whatever you know genre you want to put it in, it was a standalone for the longest until it was like all of a sudden, oh wait, there's this dagger bound thing coming around.

Ashley 21:02

Kelly, you do no, I was gonna say I could definitely see why it's not a standalone. Like there's some loose ends, obviously. Um, because you know, they're not just gonna live on with him and the sword. Like it's a liability.

Mari 21:18

Okay, sorry, that was it. Now you're good, you're good. Kelly, what do you think?

Kelly 21:21

This is a great book. I mean, it's it's funny, it's you know, lighthearted. It's I think the pacing is very good, it moves fairly quickly. This book is essentially when people talk about role-playing games like Dungeons and Dragons, there seems to be this assumption that it's very serious, that's everybody's playing like they're Lord of the Rings and everything's a hundred percent serious, whereas it's more like every role playing group tends to end up like this, like Monty Python almost.

Mari 21:51

Yes.

Kelly 21:52

Um and this is exactly what an adventuring party in a role playing game that's being played by people would be like saying. Ridiculous things happening, hijinks, etc.

Mari 22:03

Poor choices. Poor choices. Poor choices. Yeah. People getting flustered. Absolutely.

Kelly 22:10

That's what made the the Chris Pine Dungeons and Dragon movie so good was that it was not a trying to be a high fantasy movie. It was a movie about what a bunch of people playing Dungeons and Dragons, their characters would actually be doing the dumb things that they would be doing.

Mari 22:27

Yeah, absolutely.

Kelly 22:28

Um I think that there was a lot of funny little Easter eggs throughout the book that were fun. Um so overall I thought it was a really good book.

Mari 22:38

I agree. I'm glad everybody enjoyed it. I I I have no idea how many times I've read this book. I know that since I've been on Goodreads, I think I've read it five times, but I know I've read it before Goodreads, before I was on Goodreads. But this was actually the first time that I listened to it. So I've read it a bunch of times, but this is my first time listening to the audiobook.

The Temple Of The White Rat

Mari 22:56

And what I opted to do, for those of you that don't know, so this whole book takes place in what is known as T. King Fisher's World of the Temple of the White Rat. And it's actually three series. Now that stored heart is a series, we can say it's three series interconnected. You don't have to read them all, but if you enjoy it, you can. So the first two is like the Clocked Clockwork Boys and the Clock Tour Wars. I may have those the titles reverse, but it's a duology. That's like the first thing that was released. I reread that before reading this. I don't know how many times I've read that either. But that's where you first get introduced to the gnolls. That's where the world first gets introduced to the gnolls. And also the the clocktour horrors, the clocktour wars that are kind of introduced and the idea of demons and the paladins that like fight the demons and everything. And then you have Sword Heart. And in Sword Heart, you're introduced to the character of Zael, who's the lawyer or whatever of the Temple of the White Rat. And I love, love, love so much the Temple of the White Rat, like religion in this world, because they're the ones who are like, oh, okay. So you guys are gonna be over there heidi toity as like justice people, okay. You guys are gonna be over there, you know, being the the pretty little paladin jocks, okay, you know, you guys are gonna do this, and then we're the ones who are gonna get shit done. We're the ones who are gonna be like the public defenders and the ones that live for practicality and you know, just get get things happening that need to happen in a society. And I love that in this world, those people are like elevated to a religion, and that that religion is pretty much respected by all the good guys. Anybody who doesn't like the Temple of the White Rat people, you know instantly that they're a bad guy. Um and then the Saint of Steel series, which is the one I gave you one of Ash, that takes place after the Sword Heart series. So, yes, I love this book, I love this world, I love Hala's like practicality. I love how she has a way of being badass without it being about like fighting and muscles. Like she kind of lets people underestimate her. That's like her way of she weaponizes that. You know, I love Sarkis's just steadfast devotion to her once he realizes that he's just head over heels for her. Um, you know, he's like, oh, this is this is what I'm doing now. Um yeah, I can't I can't say enough um good things about this. I love all the side characters, even the ones that I love to hate. Like, I hate Aunt Malva's character because it's so well written as like a really bad character. To me, she's one of the big bads, is Aunt Malva because so much of the problems were caused by her. Um yeah, yeah. I I love Zale, I love the gnolls, I love all the like weird religion. Like the Temple of the White Red is like the cool one, but then there's like the hanged mother, and like what's what's their story? You never know, guys. Yeah, like the goddess who hung herself with her own hair. What? Why?

Ashley 26:07

Why are they so hostile? Like, don't you think they'd be like the more forgiving type? Like the more compassionate?

Mari 26:13

Well, was it Zale? I think Zale's the one who said it's it's a faith for those who value power and punishment.

Ashley 26:18

Yeah, I guess I just don't get the reference. Like, how do you get there from a suicide? You know what I mean?

Mari 26:25

Like I don't know.

Ashley 26:26

I yeah, I don't know. But like it made you, I did you viscerally hated them. Right. Right, right.

Mari 26:32

They're the ones who abuse power. You know, you had like the saints of steel who were like the muscle in a lot of ways for the the temple of the white rats. You had the the dreaming god paladins who like all are about fight are all about you know fighting the demons, the forged god, the four-faced god, the lady of grass, like there's the many armed god. Yes, and there's actually a care this they all character, you're if you end up reading the Saints of Steel series, appears in the Saints of Steel series, as does Bishop Bear tongue. So you're gonna see them in the Saints of Steel series if you read that. And also in Daggerbound, there's a character from the clock clock clockwork boy, Clock Tour Wars, appears in Daggerbound in the sequel to Sword Heart. Yeah, I cannot say enough good things about this. I think I have like three versions of this book.

Ashley 27:22

Well, no wonder there's no room on your shelves, dude.

Mari 27:25

I usually don't. I usually don't collect like I have a whole T. Kingfisher shelf, and and I do pretty sure I have three versions of Sword Heart because I got I was able to get one signed of the old version, which was like the it's gray, a very basic gray kind of cover with like the sword on the front. And I was able to get it signed, but it was a paperback. That's the only one that was able to get signed from the bookshop in in North Carolina that used to sell them. And then I I bought the hardcover to have the hardcover, but it wasn't signed. And then the new pretty one came out that's gonna match the new dagger bound when it comes out, so I had to buy the new one.

Ashley 27:58

It is very pretty.

Mari 27:59

Yeah. So I also have, you know, I don't have two full sets of Saints of Steel, but I do have multiples of some of those because I was able to buy some pretty versions. And I do have two sets of Clock Tar Wars and two sets of Clockwork Boys. So I really like the Temple of the White, the world of the Temple of the White Rap that she's created. It's probably my favorite fantasy world, full stop.

Ashley 28:21

It's very well fleshed out. Yeah. It was it was definitely well done. Without being like overwhelming either.

Mari 28:27

Yeah. Yeah, it felt like familiar enough that you didn't feel like you had to look all you know, stop, stop and look things up. It felt like you knew more or less what what kind of world you're dealing with. And it it left it open for other cool things to exist. Like, where did the gnolls come from? You know, why are why are they around? What's their you know society like? Why are they so different from everybody else? And then all these you know different religions and um all these other things. And that possessed bird, what is that possessed bird about?

Ashley 28:58

I need to know about the bird. I really hope there's closure on the bird. I you that's a fair point. I forgot to be mad about that. I why? Tell me more.

Mari 29:11

Who knows? The world may never know. Or maybe we'll find out in Daggerbound, or maybe we'll find out in I assume there's gonna be three of them because there were three people that Sarkis talked about being in the swords, his his three being people. So I I think it's gonna be Daggerbound and then one other one. So who knows? Maybe maybe we'll find out about the the curse. I shouldn't say possessed, because they did make a point of saying it wasn't possessed, the cursed bird or whatever.

Ashley 29:33

Yeah, I need to know about the bird.

Mari 29:35

Inquiring minds need to know.

Ashley 29:37

Um that's definitely a that's a huge loose ed. Like there's no context there.

Mari 29:42

And that's one thing that I believe, in my opinion, T King Fisher does really, really well in her fantasy and her fairy tale retelling that in her fantasy. She does this, like, all right, hum, humdrum, you're reading about this fantasy world, and then she'll put like one or two tidbits in there that are straight up horror, and they may never get explained. Ever. Like the the slimy things in the woods, what is that? This cursed bird? What is that?

Ashley 30:07

I don't think I need closure on the slimy thing. It's just that's evil shit in the in the wood where you're not supposed to be.

Mari 30:15

The wood that comes and gets you, even when you're not close to it, maybe the vagrant hills.

Ashley 30:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That makes see, that makes sense to me. I don't have questions about Slimer out there living his best life. But the bird, does the bird have a name? No. No, he's just the bird. Just the cursed bird. Chicken. We'll eat anything.

Mari 30:35

Yeah.

Jonathan 30:36

All birds will eat. Yeah, chickens will eat chicken.

Ashley 30:44

Like detail that was added in. I just I need to know.

Mari 30:48

Have you guys read Nettle and Bone?

Horror Bits, Poop Science, Dark Jokes

Mari 30:50

There's a very horror thing in Nettle and Bone, too, even though it's not a horror, but go ahead, Jonathan. I'm sorry.

Jonathan 30:55

Uh no, no, it's okay. It's okay. Yeah, the uh what else there was a whole bunch of detail in that I didn't think had to be in was their obsession with being poop and how it was just inquiring.

Ashley 31:05

That was yeah, scientific method. They needed answers.

Jonathan 31:08

Yeah, yeah, they didn't need to go through it so many times.

Ashley 31:10

There was just a whole bunch of that's experimentation, my dude.

Jonathan 31:14

I read that book at like 2.8 and I thought it was long. I can't imagine reading it any slower and having to hear more about well, okay, stand on your head and piss.

Mari 31:24

Jonathan, this is what it's like sometimes when you get two people with certain interests who will blabber on and and ratchet themselves up. I am sure that someone who could give zero craps about books, listening to us talk about books, or probably think of the same thing like, oh my god, it was a good book, fine, move on. You know?

Jonathan 31:45

I'm thinking of what you're putting down. I was on a meeting this uh last week, and uh somebody wrote an Excel formula and there was like I was like, Well, how are you handling leap years? And then he told me I was like, Oh yeah, it's good. But also, like there's a there's every once in a while we skip a leap year, and then we went into like the whole leap form. Everyone was like, Oh, I didn't know we skipped leap years, and I'm like, Yeah, there's a there's a formula for it. They were like, So, yeah, so I I I'm picking up your button down, even with even though like I'm like, okay, yeah, I might be in that testing phase where okay, we gotta get this variable. Okay, cool. All right, get the bread. All right, all right, awesome. But like, and I feel like they went down that road because then the moment when stuff went spicy, he was like, I don't want to put a baby in you. But I was like, no, I already we did the testing. I know we know what's where this is going. Yeah, I feel like this is gonna be uh this is not gonna be a danger at all. Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley 32:44

But only if they sheathe the sword.

Jonathan 32:47

He's gonna sheathe the sword.

Mari 32:48

After sheathing the sword, if you know what I mean.

Ashley 32:51

But now they only know because they did the pee and poop testing.

Jonathan 32:54

Right up necessary, that's all I'm saying.

Ashley 32:56

Science.

Jonathan 32:57

Science. Scientific methods. I like that he shared stories about like, yeah, I had a wielder one time who used to like to fucking cut my tongue off.

Mari 33:06

Over and over and over, yeah.

Jonathan 33:09

Come on.

Mari 33:10

That's you well, I mean, that's some of the darkness that she'll you'll be you'll be reading a T. King Fisher book, and it'll be like not a horror book, and you're like, oh, dumb dun dum dumb. And then what do you mean he cut your tongue off over and over and over again? You know, or what do you mean like when he was at the end when he was given to where where like I think it was Nolan that had him, he was like, What are you gonna make me do? Cut my arm off? He like put his hand there, cut my dick off, he put his you know, dick there. Like he was just like, There's nothing you can do to me that hasn't been done already over the hundreds of years that he's had like horrible, horrible, you know, owners or whatever.

Jonathan 33:42

So when he did, when he said that, that he was like, What are you gonna like he pulled he pulled his donger out and then slapped it on the table? And then was like, ooh, I should have done it. It's getting kind of cold.

Ashley 33:52

No, and he just wasn't gonna leave it out.

Jonathan 33:54

I was like, this isn't, he's like, this isn't as this is starting starting to shrink up a little bit. I was in the pool. That's all I heard.

Mari 34:05

But like this is the the practicality that T Kingfisher uh brings to it, and like the sort of humor that she brings to it, where it's just like it's not this grandiose thing. It's like, okay, gestures, but then also things get silly after a while. Like, let's be real. Let's be real. Yeah.

Jonathan 34:20

So Hey, let me ask you an off-the-wall question here. Have you read A Wizard's Guide to Defensive Baking?

Mari 34:26

I have, and I love it. It's also one of my favorites. Not my favorite, but it's one of my favorites. It's it's a middle, middle, middle reader's middle grade. So it's written for like, I think that like 12-year-old-ish, 11, 12-year-old range, I believe. I read it every year in the fall going into Christmas. It's such a fun story. It's basically a a there's like magic is real, there's witches and and things, and uh this girl has is in a family of like people who are magic, whatever, but her uh they also own a bakery, and her only magic is she she's got a familiar, you know, witches have familiars. Her familiar is a sourdough starter, and she can like make sure that things she can like convince dough to not burn, to cook right, etc. That's her, that's her power. And she ends up having to use that in a, I'm not gonna spoil anything, but in a way, I just bought it.

Jonathan 35:16

Don't spoil it.

Mari 35:16

I'm not in a way to like, it's gonna come into play. Like her power, which is a nothing, you know, power supposedly that nobody cares about that she, you know, belittles herself over, ends up being something that is of use. And it's this idea that like everyone is essential, everyone is useful in some ways, and everyone deserves to, you know, be happy for what they're good at. Um, it's a really sweet story, but even though it's written for that young, younger age, it's still a very good T. King Fisher story. Like, like I said, I've read it multiple times. I do enjoy that one a lot. Yeah. It's at least for me. I don't know if you like gingerbread or not. My only downside of that is like I have to have gingerbread cookies already in the house because it makes me want gingerbread.

Jonathan 36:00

I yeah, I don't know if I'm I'm not a super duper gingerbread.

Mari 36:04

So you might be fine.

Jonathan 36:05

But uh yeah, I like I do like when I say I judge books by their cover. I saw that cover and I was like, ooh, and there's a circle on it. You know, it's a sucker for circles. Yep. Um, all right, I'm gonna give that's going on the pile, that's going on the shelf in no particular order. I almost bought Sword Heart just so you know. I was like, ooh, that's a good-looking book. I mean I don't even care if I'm gonna like it.

Mari 36:29

I think you should. But you know, he's on a shelf space.

Jonathan 36:33

Uh I I do need more shelves. Put off that table. You put it over there one day.

Mari 36:38

I think there's only like other than her horror books, which I I'm not as enamored of of T. King Kisher's actual horror books. They're fine, they're just not my favorite. But like of excluding her horror books, I think there's only like two, maybe three books of hers I haven't read. And don't have, because I think I have all of her other ones, if not multiple copies of. So this is why it was such a big deal to me last year at DragonCon that I got to meet her. I was just like, oh my god. I stand in line for nothing, and I stood in line for like almost two hours for her, and I did not care. Um so anything else we want to talk about this book before we wrap it up?

Jonathan 37:16

Uh I don't have anything else.

Is It A Kissing Book

Mari 37:19

So then the last well, not the last question, but a big question. Is it a kissing book?

Jonathan 37:24

I think it I I'm gonna say I'm gonna say yes, it's a kissing book. Uh I feel like he was more defensive of her, not because she was a wielder, but because they they enjoyed each other, and I feel like she was also in love. Also, I feel like yeah, I think it's kissing. I'm I'm gonna say yes. Okay. Final answer. Shall we?

Ashley 37:50

What do you guys think? No. I would think it's a kissing book. I think uh if the ultimate goal was Holla getting her inheritance, it was achieved without them being together. He was going to see her succeed, um, regardless of their feelings towards one another. It ended the way that it did because it ended up a kissing book. But the original primary goal of her getting her inheritance was not required. The the romantic interest was not a requirement of that.

Kelly 38:27

Kelly, what do you think? I don't think it was technically a kissing book because he did what he was doing because he was obligated, because she was the wielder of the sword.

Mari 38:37

Okay. I think it was a kissing book. And the reason I I say that I think it's a kissing book is because I think that they probably would have separated earlier on when she thought she was safe or whatever, maybe at the temple or something, if they didn't have the feelings for each other. And I think if they had done that, then the plot would have gone differently. I don't think we would have had the same story. So that's my that's my thoughts on it.

Ashley 39:00

Nah, he saw he look he took one look at Zale and he was like, Oh, gotta go back.

Mari 39:07

Not done here. Okay, so the reason I I was kind of uh sketchy about saying it's the last question. I don't think it's the last question, because I came up with a thought earlier today when I was coming up with this outline.

Does This Count As Object Romance

Mari 39:18

All right, so readers, I think all of us here know, but readers, uh, if you don't know, there's a thing called SOR, which is sentient object romance. And sentient object romance is where the main character has a relationship or falls in love with a thing that was sentient. And in all the ones I've read, they end up being like, actually, there were a blah blah blah that was enchanted as a blah, blah, blah. Do we think that this book is a sentient object romance?

Jonathan 39:43

Interesting. That is a very interesting question. So I when as I read it, and you know I've been into like some SOR, yeah, lately. Yeah, I've I've been into that lately, trying to trying to explore. I got some stuff I gotta read, as a matter of fact. Um yeah. Um I didn't read this book as a sentient object. But like in hindsight, when she's talking about like he is the sword. And like when she talks about like his muscles and like kind of she's like, Oh yeah, it feels kind of human-y, but then like eh, it's kind of it's kind of his muscles.

Mari 40:18

He's got silver scars and all this stuff. Yeah.

Jonathan 40:21

I'm gonna say, hey, hey, Mari, let me just let me 72 points to you for such a great question. Uh right off the bat. Yeah, it's a gold star day. Thank you. Yeah, I think this is a sentient, this is a uh this is a sentient object romance. I got no shame. Yeah, I think so too. I'll fuck some swords. I mean, I'd love to do that. Edit that out, Kelly. Don't put that one, don't include that in there.

Mari 40:44

That's gonna be the highlight. I didn't mean it like that. That's gonna be the clip. That's the clip. I'd fuck some swords. Dang.

Kelly 40:53

Um I as a medical professional, please do not do that.

Ashley 41:01

I mean, it has a flared base.

Kelly 41:04

Do not do that.

Jonathan 41:07

Ooh, I didn't mean it like that. I'm a bad. I'm a bad.

Mari 41:11

Um, Kelly Ash, is it sentient optic romance, would you say?

Ashley 41:15

I don't think I have enough experience in SOR reading. Not that I'm judging, I just haven't dabbled. I in I think in my head, SORs require the the thing to be uh aware and like talking as the object. So I think that's where I'm kind of like in the gray area, right?

Jonathan 41:40

Right?

Ashley 41:40

So like the cucumber is chatting, right?

Kelly 41:43

You don't know the cucumber doesn't it doesn't you gotta read uh but the cucumber is aware, the sword is not hopping around doing stuff.

Mari 41:51

Right, and the sword isn't aware of what's happening, right? The sword isn't aware of what's happening when when sarcus is not really he has some awareness, right?

Jonathan 42:00

Okay, so with the Kool-Aid pitcher.

Mari 42:03

I didn't read that one.

Jonathan 42:04

The Kool-Aid Man? Kool-Aid, the Kool-Aid pitcher is like awful uh anthropomorphic.

Ashley 42:10

That's the word I couldn't think of.

Jonathan 42:12

Yeah. In the story, right? And it like can go out and has a couple of things. Yes. Oh yeah.

Mari 42:21

I I have not read this. I have zero, I have zero knowledge.

Jonathan 42:25

Yeah, it it it is, it it is. Uh, and he's got a flavor.

Ashley 42:29

Okay. Does he have different flavors depending on his mood?

Jonathan 42:32

I just read.

Ashley 42:33

I have so many questions.

Jonathan 42:34

Depending on the packets. You should read the book. You should read the book. I have a copy over here if you want to read it. It's autographed.

Mari 42:39

Well, I was just thinking earlier. I was like, I've always told people like my first Sandy Object Romance was very Valentine's unhinged. And then I was sitting there today, I'm like, oh my God, was Sword Art a Sandy Object Romance? But now that you guys break it down, I think maybe it wasn't.

Ashley 42:53

I think we need more polling.

Mari 42:56

Yeah. Speaking all of it.

Ashley 42:58

I don't know that I'm a good reference.

Mari 43:00

Maybe we need to pull poll out there. Let the let the listeners and leadership people speak.

Jonathan 43:05

Let me pitch one more piece to you. I so I bought pattern recognition by Vera Valentine. Thinking I haven't read yet either. I was thinking that it was uh an autistic book, um, but it is not. So I'm thinking that the pattern recognition, which is about like a textile, is is sentient object. I so I it's I'm thinking that they he it's they transform. I don't know if it's just the pattern, but this is gonna be interesting. Um so yeah, I guess put it put put it put it up.

Ashley 43:40

Put it with the people.

Mari 43:41

Yeah. I think the latest sentient excluding this book potentially, the latest sentient object romance book I read was Hayseed by Varry Valentine, Scarecrow coming to life defending a chicky.

Ashley 43:52

So that's very anthropomorphic to me. Like just out there walking around talking.

Mari 43:58

But like unhinged, the door was not. Until it was like a fully fledged being. Yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting. I'd have to maybe read what some of the definitions are. But I I I had that thought today. I'm like, that that would be an interesting discussion.

Ashley 44:11

I was gonna say, I feel like that's its own podcast. Like, what are the guidelines for qualifying for SOR?

Jonathan 44:19

Yeah. There seem to be shorter reads for the most part.

Ashley 44:23

Well, I don't think it's meant to have a lot of context.

Jonathan 44:26

And higher calculation rankings.

Ashley 44:28

Yeah. Get in, get out.

Jonathan 44:30

Repeat it. Repeat rinse.

Ashley 44:32

They're not trying to solve any problems.

Jonathan 44:34

Yeah, no. It's interesting how like someone. Here's a little piece of a story, and we're fucking.

Ashley 44:41

Hmm.

Jonathan 44:42

Have you read Pounded by Produce, Ashley? Do you want to read Pounded by Produce?

Ashley 44:46

I just haven't had the time. Is it an audiobook?

Jonathan 44:49

It can be.

Mari 44:55

She defines it as it's a growing subgenre. This is from Very Valentine's website. A growing subgenre within romance. Sentient object romance typically involves a love story centered around one human character and one or more sentient object characters. These are items or concepts that do not typically have human-like thoughts, a voice, emotions, etc. I personally describe it as the intersection between absurdity and romance, a type of tale that pokes a little fun at the interactions between characters by inserting an element of the unbelievable. Interesting. It says objects can remain as is or transform into more human-like shapes, often retaining some of their original characteristics in the process.

Jonathan 45:31

Like silver scars.

Ashley 45:33

But do they trans but is it still just a single item so that when they transform, it's the human, or when they transform, they come out of the thing that they're in?

Mari 45:42

I've read multiple ways of it being done. Okay. Yeah.

Ashley 45:46

Maybe we should ask Vera.

Mari 45:47

Yeah.

Jonathan 45:48

When are we going to see her again?

Conventions, Ruby Dixon, Writing Output

Mari 45:50

Just DM me. Are you going to see her at um Villains and Vixens in Texas that I bought tickets to? I'm going to go see Ruby Dixon. I was going to ask. So excited.

Ashley 45:59

I'm so excited.

Mari 46:00

Yeah, I'm going to do villains and vixens in Texas. I'm doing the thing. I'm going to visit, make the pilgrimage to see Ruby Dixon.

Ashley 46:06

I'm so happy for you.

Mari 46:09

You can buy the tickets.

Jonathan 46:11

Yeah.

Mari 46:11

It's like two weeks before.

Jonathan 46:12

She's a ticketed author there. Do I know that that's been a she's a ticketed author?

Mari 46:17

I believe she is. So I I know someone who often works for her, like uh assists her stuff. And I I asked her opinion if like she thought that a general admission ticket, you know, would be enough to be able to see and get in line and see Ruby Dixon. And she said that she thought it would. Um so long as like I prioritize it the first day. So that's my plan. I did the general admission, and that's just gonna be my she's the only author that I'm like gonna focus on, and everybody else will come after that. Because the rest of the people that are there, I pretty much have seen in other places and do travel. So a lot of really interesting people I'm still looking forward to seeing. I'm not dissing anybody else. I'm just Ruby Disney's gonna be my priority because she does not travel outside of that area.

Ashley 47:00

That's so exciting. I was gonna ask you.

Jonathan 47:03

Yeah, that's um uh yeah, I'm a little jelly there for sure. I think it would be she's she's a fun one. She also, like, we've we've read uh her Minotaur of book one. I have a lot of things. Boman Rising, yeah. Yes, and then By the Horns. I haven't read By the Horns yet, but I have it. It was good. Yeah, I I've got it in the hardcover and the audiobook. I like I so many to read.

Mari 47:29

I gotta crank this some bitch up to like I gotta finish this the the Ice Play the Barbarians and then the other two series that evolved from that. Jeez. There's like 21 Ice Play the Barbarian books, but there's like, I don't know, 60 or something of the whole like How does she write? Like she's running up time.

Jonathan 47:46

I had I had a boss, this reminds me, I had a boss one time at one of the shops, and uh he quit drinking, just up and quit drinking, and people were like, Oh, is there a problem? And he said, No, I had to give Guinness a chance to catch up. And I was just like, that's for and then yeah, he I mean he he didn't really have he didn't have like a drinking problem. He just he saw at some point he was just like ah, I'm out. Uh but yeah, like I feel like maybe some of these authors like give trees a chance to catch up and the amount of paper that you're printing.

Mari 48:17

But then again, I mean, if you were once we're all cut up, we're all gonna be like, what's next? What's next? You know? So maybe Oh yeah.

Jonathan 48:24

There, yeah, I think the other thing with reading, I'm sorry, with not reading, but with as a being an author, I've heard it a couple times, and you tell me like if you've heard something similar or or different at all. It's um the in order for them to be successful and earn a living, it takes like 40 books.

Mari 48:47

See, I don't know. I hear that, but I I will say sometimes there's some authors that I I've seen what all they're doing, and I'm like, maybe don't and and I I'm not saying this about any of the authors we mentioned today. So I'm FYI, but like there are some authors who write a lot of books, and I'm like, maybe instead of focusing on writing a bunch of books, take some time and make the books you're writing better. You know, because like I I understand wanting to get a lot of books out there because that means you think that people are gonna eventually, you know, there'll be something that'll find somebody. But I do feel like a good quality book is something that's gonna have a longer longevity, like a longevity of like people buying it and recommending it to people over and over and over, as opposed to something that is not as rereadable, you know, that doesn't have as much like either enjoyment or impact or memorability. You know what I mean? Like if I read a book and I'm like, and I know that I'm I may be different for a lot of people because I know I read a lot of books, but like still if I read a book and I'm like, did I read that one? Oh, yeah, okay. It was fine. You know, and like I don't I don't there's nothing about it that stood out to me. It's not necessarily something that I'm gonna recommend and and you know read over and over or or have tell people to buy or whatever. So I understand this this formula of like, you know, put out X number of books and then you'll be set. I don't know that that can apply so much. I think it also depends on the quality of the books. You know, because there's some authors that don't have that many books, but their books are like very high quality. Like Amelia Rossi, who wrote the Mita Soro book, the the it's a mafia series, and they're like all have um all the all of the books have a character that has some disability or health issue. They are such well-written books. I hear them recommended everywhere, and I've read them and now I recommend them to people everywhere. She literally has four books, but like I talk about them so much more than other authors who have a lot of other a lot more books out there. Um so I I I think like any business, it's the balance, any creative balance business, it's the balance of quantity and quality. And you gotta you gotta balance it out.

Jonathan 51:01

I agree. I think uh I would rather it and genuinely, like depending on on the type of book, like there's definitely some where I just like the Vera Valentine. I'm not looking for quality, I'm looking for smut. But like Ruby Dixon, I think she's a good like middle of the road. There's there's quality writing, and then there and there's still like it's still spicy. So I enjoy her books in that in that way.

Mari 51:34

But I gotta say, like, even with Vera Valentine, she's written a ton of sentient object romance, but like if I'm thinking about sentient sentient object romance or if I'm recommending that, Unhinged is still the one that always comes to mind. And it's not just because it's the first one I read, it's because it's I think a really good synopsis of like what sentient object romance is. Um and it's also a really good story. It pulls in freaking like Greek and Roman mythology that you don't expect in uh that book. And it really is got a c a lot of clever, like tongue-in-cheek little witty things in it that you did not expect out of this little itty bitty short, little sexy, smuddy little novella. Novelette, even I don't know if it's even strong long enough to be a novella.

Jonathan 52:17

For for the uh for the listeners, uh, it's about a door. Just you know, a door that a door that fucks. So just like, yeah. It's I love, I think part of why I like sentient object romance is it's super punny.

Mari 52:32

Yes. Like it doesn't take so seriously.

Jonathan 52:35

Correct. Yeah.

Mari 52:36

Sometimes we need that absurd.

Jonathan 52:38

It knows what it is and it and it's not afraid to be what it is. I like that.

Mari 52:42

Yeah. Speaking of, last thing, and then I know we'll wrap

Wicker Trailer And Fairy Tale Absurdity

Mari 52:45

it up. I'm sorry, I know we might be going long. Speaking of sentient object romance, have you guys seen the trailer for Wicker?

Jonathan 52:52

I haven't.

Mari 52:53

Uh and I'm Oh my god, I love it so much.

Jonathan 52:57

I just bought GM Fairy's Pinocchio one hard as wood, yeah. And I was and so then when I saw that, I was like, I was like, oh, there this I at first I was like I didn't know if yeah, I didn't know I I didn't know what I was looking at. I for I was like, oh, this is some I thought this was AI, I thought the image was AI slop. And I was like, for for Wicker, I was like, oh, that's AI slop. I don't really get it. I'm just gonna ignore it and keep on moving. Um but I guess it's it's not, it's a real movie.

Mari 53:32

Yes, it is. So here's my story. So I came home, did not even had not even had a chance to put stuff down on the table. Still had like my work bag in in my hand, and Kelly was like, Have you seen the Wicker trailer? And I'm like, Wicker Man? Like there's a new Wickerman? And Kelly's like, um, kind of. And then he's like, it's got Peter Dinklage in it, because I love Peter Dinklage. I'm like, oh, cool. And we watched the trailer, and I, the more it went on, the more I loved it, the more I laughed. I cannot wait. It comes out the week and we're gonna be at Romanticy in Orlando, and I am gonna go see it at the movie theater.

Ashley 54:09

My favorite comment that I've read so far was damn, I knew it had to be a Skarsgard.

Jonathan 54:20

I think it's hilarious.

Ashley 54:21

And it doesn't mean it doesn't even matter which Skarsgard, but I'm so happy it's Alexander.

Kelly 54:27

I think it's hilarious that IKEA is doing marketing based off of it.

Mari 54:30

Yes, yes. Have you seen that? Yeah, yeah. Oh my god. Yeah, it's gold. It's so good.

Ashley 54:39

And the internet memes, just I it's top tier. And I love how just like people are like, yep, that we're so glad this is happening. It's even maybe that's just my algorithm, but damn. Yeah, so like people are sad.

Mari 54:56

Yes, Kelly is like the green flag of all green flags. He turned me on to it, and then like, oh my god, and I started looking up stuff on it, and then like the next day, Luisa from Griefcat was like texting me about it, and she told me that it was like based off of a short story. I'm like, wait. So then I had to go find the short story, it's like seven pages long, read it. Good story. And then I looked more like apparently it was first a musical. So it's a musical that they produced and debuted the year of the pandemic, and of course it got shut down because of the pandemic. So now it's a movie, and I'm just like, this is it. This is its year, this is the year of the wicker.

Ashley 55:36

Did you see the UK trailer?

Mari 55:38

Yes, I've seen all versions.

Ashley 55:42

I am I'm I don't know that I'll pay to go see it just because I'm lazy, but I am stoked to see the reviews on it. Like dead ass stoked.

Mari 55:53

Yeah. Well, and um, my friend Sarah from Hissin and Kissin has an Etsy store called Cloak and Corset, and she does these cool like pins and stickers and and things of like uh pop culture. And as soon as it came out, I texted like the next day after Kelly turned me on to it. I texted Sarah about it. I'm like, you better make some pins about this. And I like texted her all these like lines from I'm like, I need this pen, and I need this pin, and I need this pin.

Ashley 56:19

She could probably make some really great earrings out of some of that, too. Yes, that is just quality the jokes alone, yeah, the puns.

Mari 56:27

Yeah, like like Peter Dinkit's just such a great actor, Olivia Coleman is such a great actor, Skarsgard, such a great actor.

Ashley 56:33

Like, I'm just like this movie amazing cast.

Mari 56:36

Yeah.

Ashley 56:37

And they were like, and the fact that he was just ready with her ask. Give me a month, he said.

Mari 56:45

Done. No question. But it's like every every fair every old fairy tale is kind of like that. And you start thinking about there's some absurdity in some of the old fairy tales. You're like, what do you mean you're gonna turn this pumpkin into a coach? What? You know, what do you what do you mean, all this you know, weird stuff? And we just have heard it so many times that we're familiar with it that it does, you we don't feel the absurd anymore. But then Wicker to me feels like a fairy tale in a lot of ways. Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, this is like the weird fairy, this is Pinocchio coming to life, you know, this is all these weird fairy tales. So yeah, I'm so excited.

Jonathan 57:21

Do sentient object romances need to be human object or or can it be object object?

Mari 57:28

What do you mean, like what example?

Ashley 57:30

So Vera said it had to be one human and one or more objects, yeah.

Jonathan 57:36

Or more to be fair, or more the thought process here was like beauty of the beast.

Mari 57:41

Because I'm pretty sure that uh Lemaire Lumaire was doing some stuff back there for sure.

Jonathan 57:48

And chip is the product of Mrs. Potts, so someone would ask if maybe there's a Mr. Potts somewhere too. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, she got brought her kettle to a bubble.

Mari 57:58

Is Mr. Is Mr. Mr. Potts the uh the stove, maybe?

Jonathan 58:04

Oh yeah, potentially. Yeah, potentially what a time to be alive.

Mari 58:09

There is a not Lumier because they don't want to get sued by anybody, but there is a Sunny Object romance called Lit, which is a chandelier FYI. Of course. Of course. I can't remember who wrote it. I want to say Nicole, the one who did that the Hello Nurse one, but maybe not, but it's called Lit.

Jonathan 58:24

Kelly, have you read Hello Nurse?

Mari 58:27

No.

Jonathan 58:28

Yeah, if you haven't read Hello Nurse, uh I'm going to not the Animaniacs. It's not the Animaniacs. Legally speaking, it's not the Animaniacs.

Mari 58:37

Yeah, I think the next physical book I'm gonna read is uh Monstera by Clover Holloway. It's on the object romance with the Monstera plant. So that's my next SOR.

Jonathan 58:49

I like it.

Mari 58:50

All right, we ready to wrap it up? Yeah.

Where To Follow And Next Episode

Mari 58:53

Okay. Thanks for listening to Of Swords and Soulmates. Before we go, make sure to check out the show notes, rate review, and subscribe to us on your podcast app of choice. It helps others to find us. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Of Swords and Soulmates. Check us out on our website of Swords and Soulmates. If you'd like to offer suggestions for future episode, book recommendation, or discussion topic, feel free to reach out to us on the DMs of any of those options. If you want to read along with us as we prep for a new episode and get chapter by chapter, occasionally unhinged interaction, join our fable app Book Club by searching for the Of Swords and Soulmates Book Club. And last but not least, we hope you'll join us in two weeks for our next episode when we will be doing an updated book convention one oh one tutorial. Bye.

Jonathan 59:32

Bye.