Danny Donnelly

In this episode of 'It’s Notts Just Physio', we’re joined by Danny Donnelly - a passionate and multi-talented adult nursing student whose journey bridges creativity, care, and community. As a musician, producer, and accessibility consultant, Danny brings a unique perspective to their work as a student nurse, carer, and researcher. Their projects are grounded in empathy and innovation, all with the aim of making spaces more inclusive and connected.

Their mission is simple: to amplify unheard voices, create nurturing spaces, and inspire positive change through creativity and care.

Supported using public funding by the National Lottery through Arts Council England and supported through generous donations from the University of Nottingham alumni, staff, students and friends through Cascade funding.  

Explore the anthologies, animations, community art projects, and carer resources from the project here:
https://createwithcare.org/ (Launching mid-July)

Support for Carers:
Young Carers: youngcarersnotts.co.uk
Adult Carers: carershub.carersfederation.co.uk

If you’d like to be part of the growing movement to raise awareness and improve support for carers, or just want to find out more, please feel free to get in touch:
dannyjd.artist@gmail.com

Trigger Warning: This discussion touches on mental health and the experiences of young carers. If this brings up anything difficult for you, please take whatever steps you need to care for yourself, whether that means skipping that part, grounding yourself, or speaking to someone you trust.

Transcript

UNKNOWN: 0:00

so

SPEAKER_01: 0:09

Welcome back to It's Not Just Physio with me, James Coghlan. I'm delighted to have Danny Donnelly with us today on the pod. Danny is an amazing student who's got lots to share about his studies and everything he's doing outside of those studies as well. So this is an episode you do not want to miss. So without further ado, Danny, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00: 0:37

Hi, James. Thank you very much for your kind words. I very much appreciate having me on board.

SPEAKER_01: 0:43

It's great to have you here. I've heard so many good things from many different people around the school about what you do and all the amazing things that you're involved in. So this is just a fantastic opportunity for the wider audience to listen to you and hear about some of the amazing things that you're involved with. So Danny, do you want to introduce yourself to our listeners? Tell us a little bit about yourself and then we'll take things on from there.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13

So I am Danny, obviously. I am a student nurse. I'm studying adult nursing. I'm 22 years old. I do lots of creative practices. So I specialised as a music producer when I was very young. That mostly came about from being a carer myself and trying to use creativity to connect with my dad and find that kind of creative Since then, I kind of started with loads of festivals and really took myself into the creative scene, organising all sorts of crazy things and working with kind of stroke rehab equipment. And then I kind of, you know, always had that focus about kind of medicine and the human body. So that's where I kind of went and kind of advocating for others. So that's where I am with student nursing. And I like to do, I think, in-betweens. So from kind of advocating to system level with parliamentary change, through research, and I'm one of those weird people that love academic writing. So I do lots of bits in between without shouting about it too much, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01: 2:26

Oh, thanks, Danny. Well, I think you should be shouting about it. Some of the things we spoke about just before the pod started, really interesting as well. So I'm sure that will come through. So first thing, I've of want to let's go back in in that in that time it's very interesting that you've got this sort of music music producing background can you tell us a little bit about that how that developed and started and and festivals and things like that sounds really interesting

SPEAKER_00: 2:53

yeah absolutely so um so i guess a bit of context is um you know i'm a young adult carer and was a young carer kind of a bit more so from the age of kind of 11 12 even though i had caring responsibilities before then um and my My dad is a music producer. He used to tour around Europe, kind of teaching other people how to create electronic dance music. So kind of from that kind of almost forced time together, you know, me trying to take care of him and him being housebound within those four walls, we kind of went to music. I had like influences from Prodigy, for example, very kind of old band. And sometimes I I was horrified at the music that he showed me. But, you know, I love kind of soul jazz, dance music, house, garage, drummer, bass. And I would rather just kind of make music, even at the times it didn't sound great, rather than play video games because that was my version. And I felt like I had something productive by the end of, let's say, the weekend. So, yeah, my dad taught me everything I knew. I started to... to then specialize in house music and more deep house music, more per se. To be honest, none of it quite feels real. It feels like a lifetime ago. I was very lucky to have published records in Detroit when I was 16, even though I made it a little bit a few years beforehand. And then I went through this kind of crazy journey of house and garage and drum and bass, even kind of working with people in record labels such as DJ Luck and MC Neat that you know is from kind of lush records and Step 2 and those kind of scenes it was a bit crazy at times and working with musicians that I've always dreamed about working with I've got them all plastered over my walls where my mum doesn't understand bless her that when you scale up a photo it goes pixelated so I've got lots of pixelated photos everywhere but yeah I hope that gives a bit more insight And kind of then following an injury I had, I was approached due to all my passions about music to use like a wheelchair controller, you know, like a wheelchair joystick. And that was mapped to an octave on a piano. So up was C, to the side is D, E, F, G, A, B, C. And then we kind of went around SEN schools and people with additional needs and kind of pupil referral units and tried to start making music more accessible. accessible. They also had like eye gaze, so they tracked for retinas and then we could map that to kind of MIDI outlets. So that's just kind of triggering off those sounds. And then we could essentially make anything hopefully accessible with music. And that kind of started more my passions for the advocacy side of things. I hope that gives a good insight.

SPEAKER_01: 6:10

It's brilliant. It's really, really fascinating. And it sounds like that was from a number of sounds like you have to enjoy the music, which is obviously really important. But it also sounds like you have that connection with that with your dad as well, which gives sounds like a really nice emotional side to it. too so that's a really nice nice nice nice story within that certainly sounds you've been very successful within that i i don't know if you you probably will know this danny but i was reading something recently about um music and healing frequency and often within sort of dance house kind of music there is this healing frequency of around about 128 hertz or something like that to help in terms of healing which is interesting uh i don't know if there's anything you you've come across or seen like that from what you've done?

SPEAKER_00: 7:07

Well, to be honest, kind of more of my focus in healing and creativity is with the community side of things. But to kind of go back to kind of the music side of things, I think it allows great emotional outlet with the kind of psycho needs and the social needs with that community finding and expression. For me, it grounded me at times where I felt like I was possibly floating off But then at times I felt like, you know, I often describe these kind of wings around me when I was either playing a piano or playing guitar or then making dance music. And it's the same when I write, actually, or swim or ride a bike. I have the same kind of nostalgic feeling. But for me, music and then writing, those two things that I believe in is the kind of basis that I think everyone should have and hopefully maybe we'll discuss a little bit about it later on. I'm hoping to publicise local art groups so that everyone has the ability to choose at their own pace how to engage because In GCSE music, I was learning, or sorry, even beforehand, they were trying to teach me row, row, row the boat on a digital audio workstation. So that's what you use to produce music. Whilst I was doing drum and bass with my dad and I thought, really? But yeah, so then also to go back to what you're saying about dance music, it's very hypnotic. I also acquired a traumatic head injury at one stage. and it affected how I hear music and hear sound. So it's very common with people with neurodiversity that they have something called hyperacusis and that's kind of where sound is so sensitive, you know, you're kind of hyper aware, you're more aware of sound rather than, you know, being hypo, so not being so attuned to it. What that meant for me was when I first had my injury, a whisper felt like someone was shouting in my ears and it was so painful. But then I used kind of music to almost like exposure therapy. And I then, you know, would be able to go in festivals and huge crowds of people where I had this kind of social anxiety of even leaving my house because of it. But when music was played, especially for full music, so with the kick drum on F I think a quarter note, music that I grew up on, my anxieties would go away. And my sensitivity and the pain that I felt in my ears wouldn't be as strong. And then you can go on on research papers. There's so much about having control and that influencing pain and the body and the immune system. I'm sure it's all kind of integrated from those kind of areas.

SPEAKER_01: 10:24

That's fascinating. It's absolutely fascinating. Thank you for sharing that. I think you've put into words so many great sort of feelings and thoughts I've certainly had with music and the effect it can have. on people and that sort of, yeah, that kind of autonomic sort of parasympathetic response, dampening response. You're right, that sort of immersion is absolutely fascinating. It's how my wife describes it very similar when she goes to Ibiza, obviously loves being in sort of feeling that rhythm coming through. Me and her have slightly different music tastes, so I've got quite a, I mean, I quite, you know, I like some of the stuff she likes but I'm a bit of a heavy metal fan myself and strangely I always remember going to Download Festival many moons ago and I don't know if you know the band Slayer were playing but old school metal band, pretty good but they lot of double bass drum pedal playing throughout it and I just remember, I don't know if I was just knackered because I'd slept the previous night, might be that but I remember sitting down at this point listening to Slayer and I fell asleep because the vibrations of the bass and the double bass drum sort of went through the through the floor uh out of the grass and i was oh by this just by the way by this sort of fence the next thing we know we'd both nodded off this amazing sort of like you know feeling of that so um but yeah it's a really interesting area something i'd love to sort of read a little bit more about and and those kind of things so but that's that's amazing so that you've had that sort of influence in your life you've you're still doing that now are you still involved in the music scene and stuff

SPEAKER_00: 12:09

uh yeah so um i i do a few things so um again to kind of promote well-being and equity rather than equality um i am a accessibility advisor um some may say consultant but i like i like that term we shall say um and i consult uh businesses and education uh kind of groups and festivals on how to be more accessible to for arts I've just done, worked with a group called It's in Nottingham. And they have a business improvement district for Nottingham. They have this organization that they work with where they give awards to venues, bars and clubs. Again, it kind of links in with music, but I've kind of took those parts in. And I've written the accessibility criteria for the awards that they give venues. So there's that one area on Accessibility Fair. I also work accessibility and kind of push for more charitable organisations to be involved and to have a diverse audience that, you know, the performers can see themselves in. And then there's also stuff that I try and promote and kind of advocate for. An amazing group that I worked with called Digit Learning and Digit Music. They have worked with these, I can't quite remember the organisation, but they had haptic vibration suits for the deaf to experience live music. So where he was talking about the bass frequencies, it reminded me there. I thought, oh, I definitely have to mention that. And weirdly enough, you'd think the bass frequencies would be in the chest, but it's actually a bottom of the spine. And they've worked with deaf musicians who have kind of slowly lost their ability to hear to make sure that it's really representative of the feelings that they have with music and how they would experience music. Anyway, so that's the accessibility side of things. I also teach and kind of mentor some bass players, some vocalists, some music producers, all sorts really, and say, right, I think, in my opinion, I recommend going to this group, getting trained up to do community art here and saying, this is where one source of income will be. This is where one source of income will be. I recommend doing that and not relying this solely on your income. income so that you can enjoy, you know, the bits that you find so true to yourself. And then saying, right, so let's, you know, map out a plan and do those kind of things. I particularly try and reflect my experiences, especially as a carer, especially as someone who's neurodiverse and has had, you know, trauma as well, and try and influence, you know, my practices from being trauma informed. So a lot of people that I work with have had lots of experiences so I try and make sure that's as accessible to them as possible and meeting them at their terms then in the music side of things I'm still working with oh my screen's blurred but I've got festival banners up here of festivals that I work with called Hockley Hustle well it's a big music kind of festival and then I also work with an organisation called Green Hustle what's their kind of side branch for promoting kind of green growth and community and making your stage of empowerment for the community on the green level. I then, you know, I'll do some bits of Nottingham Poetry Festival and such. And then in my own terms of music, I decided a long time ago, right, what do I want out of music? And I thought I solely kind of want it as a selfish thing. So I thought I'm going to forget about releasing music and just produce as my own outlet. My dad is always having a go at me saying, you need to have this release, have that release. But yeah, I solely kind of use it as a kind of selfish thing at the moment. And I used to have, my friend lent me his piano, what I was very lucky on. And I used to come home after uni and play it every day. Unfortunately, he's asked for it back now. Well, it's a shame. But yeah, I'm still very involved with music and creativity in many different ways. And I try and actually use that how fluid I was and flexible to things in for more structured kind of academic way and that style of thinking. Hope it sounds a bit contemporary. Hopefully it works. But who knows?

SPEAKER_01: 17:21

I'm sure, I'm sure it does. And I think evidently with all these things that you're doing, you're making it work for you. And I think that's really, that comes across really strongly through this so far. I mean, I'm just thinking of all this, all these things you're involved in, even just on the music side, you know, things and just thinking how you, how do you balance all this with study and life? Like, how did you, how do you do that, Danny? And how did, you know, how did you start to get into like, you know, the Hockley Hustle and the Green Hustle and things like that? How did that all come about?

SPEAKER_00: 17:51

Good question. I get that asked quite a lot. I think one thing I always say to the students is where you can work from home, do work from home. Even though I love having that connection with people, I sometimes speak a bit too much. And being able to work from home, it allows me so much flexibility and also to look after my own self. So that means that I'm eating well and I've got my own comforts and I'm not draining my social battery. you know, from traveling and saving on travel time is a huge one. When you're adding, well, when I'm adding all these extra kind of curriculum things, I take, let's say, my number one priority. So that's my uni work. That's top priority. That's everything that I'm going to be focusing in on. All these additional things, I make sure that there's flexible deadlines and that if I suddenly had a panic attack or, you know, I just felt exhausted and I'm going to IB for four weeks, that hasn't happened yet. then I can move things and have that flexibility. How did I get into these things? So I guess Hockley Hustle was, I started volunteering. Ah, yes, that's it. So after my head injury, I started kind of experimenting and working with loads of different record labels to try and see what's out there. And I thought, ah, like, you know, let's try and do everything and see what I like, see what I like. what I don't like. I started working with loads of hip hop producers and record labels. And that was a wonder to explore. And then I started volunteering through Hockley Hustle. And I went through kind of this, Tommy's going to hate me because I forgot the name of it. But it was a mentorship, essentially, through Hockley Hustle. And that then introduced me to several organisations that I tried to get into such as flex records or acoustical and gave me that first connection and then weirdly enough because I was trying to find all these creative ways that I could get into things I worked with loads of the promoters that was through the festival through other means as well so I had loads of contact with them and luckily hopefully I'm a little bit likeable so it did me favours there and then through Hockley Hustle I guess they saw how key I was. So then I became a venue liaison for one year. I also did lots of sound engineering for them. And the way that I learned sound engineering from Flex Records and Mem Studios and Hockley Horse Wars, they said, here's the sound equipment. Here's all the stage stuff you need. It's on in an hour. Good luck. And that was my introduction to being a sound engineer. So I would quickly plug everything in and think, right, let's test. And sometimes they would come along and say, actually, you just need to take out this wire. But that's how I learned things there. And then with the venue liaisons, that was kind of liaising with the 50 venues that we work with, all in one day, by the way. However, planning goes over months and months, it would take up like nearly a quarter to a half of my year to organise. And then with my advocacy on accessibility, I was kind of promoting certain things and naturally it kind of went into my role and I was kind of identifying areas of improvement for accessibility. So then the role kind of naturally made itself and they made this little part of tiny funding, but you know, necessary funding to still be able to put the right amount of hours in to make sure, you know, people have access to So that's how I became an accessibility advisor for them. I hope

SPEAKER_01: 22:10

that's good. Of course, Danny. What I'm picking from this brilliant story is this, you mentioned the word keen. I think that really stood out and that seems to be very much you've gone out and sought after opportunity. You've not just waited for that to come to you. It seems like you've been very like, I'm going to, okay, What's going on? What can I get involved with? How can I do that? I have no doubt there's been probably many, many hours you've never been paid for or whatever, but then the change that you want to then create from it comes through really clearly. You want to improve things, make things more accessible to people, very caring side coming through within that work. And it's lovely to hear about those kind of experiences you've had, just even in the music and the art scene. Thinking now about how that translates into to your sort of academic career, I guess that suits you very well because you're in a caring profession and things like that. So have you noticed that there's been that sort of transference of skills across outside of nursing and inside of that as well?

SPEAKER_00: 23:20

So firstly, directly talking about the arts is, you know, obviously you have to handle it with sensitivity. You can't just go to someone who may be having battles with cancer, let's say, and say, oh, actually, I think you should be doing some music or you should write some poems about how you're feeling. And at times, if that's not meeting them up for levels they are, then that could be maybe really patronising So it's always about meeting people where they're at, really. I guess that kind of goes into public health kind of models. But when I've been working on placement with patients, many a time I've been promoting local art organisations because I know kind of Nottingham's creative scene inside out. I've been kind of promoting for them to kind of do this kind of project or that project or to write about their experience. experiences in the hospital about their condition if they feel or I've been making creative writing prompts where you know they can just talk about whatever you want but I definitely see sometimes a improvement in communication between possibly family members it can be very small but essentially it's just trying to promote things where people can choose to empower themselves and I think that and to kind of reference a few things that people have said is it's one called Professor Paul Crawford said that the word prescribing is very clinical and I can't agree more so I think in terms of social prescribing is where I'm talking about kind of promoting for arts however and I think that should be pushed way more however to almost kind of prescribe a friend or to prescribe something. I think it takes away from kind of empowerment that it should have for patients, for people. So that's one side of things. I definitely think it's hopefully improved my communication skills. I'm very good at de-escalating situations. Well, I like to think so anyway. That comes from my caring experiences with my dad, from de-escalating dealing with kind of maybe angry sound engineers or musicians where you can't do anything but the equipment may have malfunctioned. And essentially just to meet people where we're at and be able to speak to them when things do go wrong, I suppose. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 25:56

that's really interesting you mentioned about de-escalation and it is a very very good skill set to have isn't it Danny I think and I was going to sorry the door's just gone now the wind's flowing through this room trying to keep cool in the background here and with that could you give an example of how you have been able to de-escalate something I mean listeners listening to this might well go oh well I'll tell you what any skills or any tips or tricks you've got I'm all ears so just wanted to be able to share with us a typical example that you've gone through any sort of hot tips and tricks that people might be able to use

SPEAKER_00: 26:33

so one case comes to mind particularly as well and it wasn't a case where I was particularly advocating for for arts but it's more about accessibility and meeting people where they're at I may have to take a little bit more time so that I can keep their names and any details confidential but essentially I was working with a patient who had schizophrenia. They were very distressed because they were coming out of their normal routine. They wanted a new inhaler, what is normal to their routine, but the hospital didn't prescribe it. And everyone was trying to tell them that actually, look, this is exactly the same inhaler, it's just a different colour and it's a different casing. But unfortunately, because of the gentleman's additional needs, he didn't quite understand And I think my skills, if I can say so, for accessibility and for arts made me kind of take a moment, kind of observe, and then to just take my time explaining things in a different way. I've tried a few different methods of communication with him, and it kind of took me back a foot. because to give extra context, he was very almost agitated, let's say, very kind of loud on the ward and the whole bay, unfortunately, didn't like him because he had kept them up the whole week from being so agitated. And in fact, you could hear him all down the ward, bless him. But I was very taken back at when I did explain things in a few different ways that he he seemed to you know have that comprehension and and really take that in and then like it took various like several attempts I keep on coming back and reminding him it's you know certain ways but I saw a much kind of calmer level from him and a way that not maybe some, was able to communicate with him. Unfortunately, as a student nurse, I have a bit more time than some other professionals that have lots of big lists of patients, and I'm not taking away at all their credibility or how good they are, but I was very fortunate to have that time to be able to meet him at his level and explain things a bit more thoroughly but I absolutely advocated for including his brother who was his carer and trying to meet him at his level and suggesting different things and I was very happy to hear that when he was moved to a different ward when I came back a week later that those things did happen in addition there was another case that week later where a and this is a time that I did advocate for arts is there was a patient who had a brain injury he was non-verbal he had his mother looking after him and I actually talk about the kind of case in an article that I wrote and the mother was showing that she was very burnt out that she had no idea of the training to do in terms of kind of manual handling and she was just trying to do her best essentially and I also realized so I don't know loads but I know parts of sign language and Makaton so I was trying to see at what levels can he communicate through and it was a very surprising element for me that he was signing some sign language to myself and I think we spoke about something like I like donkeys and you know very small things but it definitely made me smile and I was teaching for mum a few things and such and I think that was a really cool case that actually I think about probably once a month actually of those two patients there and I really pushed community art wellbeing for the brother of that patient actually as the brother was very struggling with the almost grief of his brother who is alive but when people sometimes have a brain injury for family and for self kind of grief you know someone's past self so I was hoping to push kind of community well-being and community art so that they can form that communication and have something that they are proud of so that they can continue engaging with education and and for family, essentially. I hope that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01: 31:37

Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing those examples. Really interesting, very different in their ways, different approaches that you felt were really, and rightly so, that they sort of stay with you in such a positive way. I think the way that you've also recognised there in terms of the wider family, it's often, from what I've seen anywhere in healthcare, it's often obviously we get told to be patient-focused, patient-centred. But within that family can also sit, can't it? And it can happen where there are very much, there are members of that family struggling with this as well, or, you know, of a situation or something that might have happened. And I think it seems really nice that you recognised that was something going on there and sort of pointing them and using the arts again as a way of, I think you described it earlier, sort of a social prescription. I like that element of doing something out not just so medical medical but just being something actually just really actually really powerful really healing in a different context but how how beneficial it could be so thank you for for talking through those uh danny and to to bring things on on even more of other things that you're involved with um i'm led to believe you have a you have a book a book launch uh imminently coming up as well um and you've also i think you mentioned it a little bit earlier but um you know you in terms of this um you're part of a parliamentary group as well. I'm sure the listeners would be loving to hear a bit more about those things as well, if you wouldn't mind sharing that with us.

SPEAKER_00: 33:22

Yeah, absolutely. So there's a lot to talk about. So I'll try and keep it a little bit brief, but give enough for context. So I believe creativity saved my life. And actually, when I started engaging with carer services, there was this young girl who said it was her dream to become a writer. And I was begging for service. I said, please reach out to these people. And unfortunately, things didn't turn out that way. So last year, I thought I have to make the skill stream a reality. And I was approaching these random organisations to try and get funding to get her to be a published writer. I had some Arts Council funding through Nottingham Poetry Festival last year to do a small book, working with five young carers through 10 online sessions to create the book, and then a few sessions to then read out and read their pieces in the Royal Concert Hall. Well, this year we've got even more funding. So we've done exactly the same session with that layout. We are working with 10 young carers this time. The seven carers come from an organisation called Young Carers Notts that support young carers in Nottingham and Nottinghamshire from as young as five to 17. We are working with young carers aged nine to 14. And to really kind of use creative writing, sorry, to have a space just to be, and that's something that we quote a lot, to be able to go on endless possibilities and journeys despite the four walls that they may be, you know, permanently in. Well, we've found that a lot of the young carers have been able to have a voice and to speak about things that they don't typically speak about too quietly. that come to mind is what one thing that I spoke about last year was at times choice felt like a risk and I think that's a very real representation of being a carer. A young carer that sent me a poem yesterday for it to be read out at the launch event tomorrow said that sometimes she feels trapped in her own life Absolutely heartbreaking, but I am so honored and so happy that she has that creative outlet to be able to talk about these feelings. I've been really very sensitively working with all three necessary services with safeguarding and well-being as a priority and with service managers. essentially what comes across is that you know a lot of these young carers don't have much outlets and and from what we've said is for creative writing sessions that we do run um you know their general happiness has gone up what what's what's the whole reason why i've done this um so yeah we've got the creative book tomorrow and that talks about um chaotic creativity so from uh having hedgehog kingdoms and sloths and penguins and grandmas that own scientific labs that take over the world to the importance of saying saying no and what's it like having anxiety and actually even times of young carers as young as eight and nine talking about grief within the book what that level of maturity is something that many young carers have and it blows me away every time then through the same project and same funding through funded through the National Lottery by Arts Council England we have an animation co-produced by young carers or the daily lives of young carers to represent their voice and to push their experiences to the general public and raise awareness of the support that is out there. I'm also working with public health experts and for commissioners to kind of write entitlement forms because a majority of carers have no idea of the support they're entitled to under the Care Act. So I'm trying to work out like really simple forms where it just says you're entitled to this, this, this. This is how you get the direct support and this is for organisation that will hold your hand every step of the way rather than just signposting. So that's what I'm hoping to have on. My aim is to have it on every ward in NUH. I'm getting very close to that. And I've got some funding for a magazine called Left Lion, what I'm sure you're aware of as well. And we've got about six months of a media campaign with them. Again, I'll make a direction to community art organisations and then a direct link to Young Carers Knox and the Carers Hub that look after adult carers then put some services into organisations like Maggie's, which is a centre for people, anyone affected by cancer. It's a very holistic thing where they can have support and interventions themselves. they can have that kind of empowered choice of um will they have support will they have further understanding of you know the condition and what it's like and how to protect their own well-being as well whether it's the carer or the person uh suffering from it um so that's through the kind of national um you know for arts council england funding uh for parliamentary one that's a all-party parliamentary group for very long appg uh and that's into removing for barriers to higher education for young carers and young adult carers that I co-chair and I'm a youth advisor on. This is with the Carers Trust. I'm hoping, and I'm having a meeting very shortly today, to hope to get a formal response from the university to it. I'm currently writing a position statement with the Institution of Health Promotion Education, IHPE, on submitting evidence for it. And I'm hoping towards with those organisations to give evidence to represent the voices of young carers, young adult carers and organisations that support them for integrations into policy to promote wellbeing for carers. I'm also speaking at an NHS conference next week, hoping that we can influence an NHS long-term plan where I'll be really promoting, you know, MSK health and kind of manual handling, and ergonomic support, you know, because carers like healthcare professionals are exposed to lots of kind of physical strain, yet with healthcare professionals, they get manual handling training and they get occupational health. So with the aids and for slings and the hoists, whereas with carers, they generally don't get that. And it's not really pushed that much. So that's what I'm really hoping to, um, be kind of legislation at point of care identification and in carers assessment and then again through the university's funding I'll be hopefully creating a manual handling video to go alongside that as well as I'm sorry for the longer long list is I'll be creating a healthcare curriculum to be carer aware for the whole of the School of Health Sciences. This is with the Carers Association and working with the commissioners into adult and social care and young health and social care, sorry, with Nottingham City Council, as well as the Carers Trust and carers organisations everywhere, essentially, to bring best practices forward so that for the next generation of future healthcare students are informed of how to engage with carers and to promote their wellbeing, as well as a carer support structure within the university as well. And I'll draw the dot there with reading off that long list from my mind. Wow,

SPEAKER_01: 41:47

I mean, you've certainly got a lot of irons in the fire there, Danny, but amazing drive and wanting to get that change. And I think it's a really great avenue that you're looking down around sort of that uh she's sort of about that msk what's this lethal screening for for carers and and yeah you're absolutely right it's sort of where do they go for this sort of training and and support and things like that uh one thing i can talk to you a little bit about i'm i'm contributing on a book at the moment around manual handling and um it's amazing some of the some of the things that have been used over the years of how people should lift and injury risk and things like that. And you probably have come across this yourself, but this sort of, there's concepts of, oh, you know, you need to have a straight spine to lift. And if you don't, then you might get injury and things like that. But in fact, the evidence shows that isn't generally the case, actually. Actually, those things are quite, you know, a little bit sort of more theoretical than actual sort of, real and the actual evidence really shows a lot that injuries are more generally higher injury risk tends to be related down to poor levels of sleep and increased levels of stress. Now, when you then bring stress up into a number of different factors, as you know, you've got, you know, emotional, financial, you know, cognitive, you've got previous injury, you've got so many different aspects to fill into that. So it's interesting, isn't it? You know, in terms of like... all very well to say like you know once you know that those are two factors that might be causing people at risk when they're doing lots of lifting but how do you then just manage that you know it's like oh yeah stress is a contributor it's like well yes um a lot of stress out there how can you do it um but even when i've worked with certain patients and they go oh i or people they go i didn't realize actually that's where my energies and efforts really needed to go into it's actually really sleep health is that important yes it is or or again you mentioned about the poem before about you know someone sort of feeling trapped in their own life you know those kind of feelings it's like that's the real good stuff to be talking about thinking about and seeing how do we how do we use that how do we get into that to to make that to make a change there a real change a proper change you know a beneficial change it's a fascinating area that you're that you're involved with so uh best of luck with all of that where is the book and show you able to say where this book launches

SPEAKER_00: 44:35

yeah so i'll also include a link um to the website we'll have for two books for animations you know for um all the support about chaos but for the Launch is at the Royal Concert Hall tomorrow or in the past once the podcast is out. And I'm very looking forward to it, very excited. And we're very lucky to have a friend and a colleague, Karen Neal, who's a public health consultant and mindfulness guru, join us to talk about her experiences with creativity and being a carer as well. And actually, there's just a few more little bits I'd love to add to if we've got some time. exactly where you say that MSK health is about stress something that's really interesting and I'm kind of having to absorb loads of statistics speaking to all these professionals but again unfortunately money makes the world go round so to bring those very impactful stats forward. So unpaid carers over the age of 18 contribute an estimated value of£184 billion a year to the UK economy. And now just to bring that back to a bit more relevance, that's equivalent to the entire NHS budget. Now, young carers alone, because of the lack of support that is there, they have, you know, it costs the UK economy£1 billion a year due to the lack of education and training opportunities. But then behind all these figures is real young people that are sacrificing their lives, their dreams, their health, simply because they stepped up. So to then bring that back to their health, their mental health, their education, some statistics to go on is papers that I've looked at shows that, well, Public Health England wants to say that caring is a social determinant of health that 94 to 95% In a few papers that I've seen, other carers studied report MSK pain and discomfort and injury because of the lack of support there. That one in four young carers have self-harmed. 17% of those attempt, unfortunately, to take their own life compared to only 7% of people who aren't young carers. With a three-year average delay of getting support for being a carer. And then going back into kind of education and work and employment, keeping in mind that all of this is integrated, like you say, with stress. You know, there's studies to say from the BBC and our university that there's two students per classroom that are young carers, yet I think 0.5% of pupils are identified within schools. And there's mass kind of under-report or under identification within schools with I think 69% of schools stating that there's no young carers in the cohort and from the suggestive data probably isn't the case what's very unfortunate and this is why we have to keep on pushing for awareness something that I also said in the launch event was you can't study when you're exhausted and you can't work when you're injured or hurt from lifting your loved ones um and i think that just brings home that they shouldn't have to be forced to choose between someone else's future and their own um and again a very way of time so that's my last last note for me

SPEAKER_01: 48:27

Amazingly powerful words there, Danny, and I really applaud you for doing this. I think this needs to be shared about, needs to be shared, needs to be actioned. So please keep us posted on how this is all going. And, you know, I really hope that this gets the traction that it deserves and the impact that you're making is amazing. So massive hats off to you for all of what you're doing. It's very inspiring. I think hopefully number of people listen to this podcast will be getting a lot of inspiration from yourself. I'm also thinking from our own students across the schools at the School of Health Sciences here at Nottingham can listen to these amazing stories and these impacts that Danny's making. I was going to say, Danny, I don't know if you need any extra help, but just wondering if anyone was listening and thinking, oh, I might want to, you know, help out or do anything. I don't know. Would you be happy for people to reach out to you and sort of offer any anything on that?

SPEAKER_00: 49:28

Yeah, absolutely. So in all honesty, I'm trying to start a movement. So as we all know, it takes a tribe to make change. I'm trying to, what I say, is kind of do a system shake and to shake things up and to make change on every level, hence why there's such a breadth of things going on. So on the website, there will be ways of getting involved. There are several parts of the tribe amongst 20 28 different people that are involved in so many different ways and it'll all be there and I'll be honoured for anyone to reach out because I'm always finding different ways of more support needed or how other people can get involved, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 50:15

Thanks, Danny. I'm conscious of the time and sadly we're going to have to wrap the episode up, which has been an amazing episode. So thank you so much. The last thing I'd just like to ask you is not to put you on the spot, but often ask, I guess, if there was any bit of advice you feel like you would want to give to it. It could be anyone you could choose in particular. You know, it might be a bit of Danny Donnelly life advice to any of our listeners. Is there anything you'd want to share with us on that? Anything that sticks true to you? Anything you feel passionate to share with

SPEAKER_00: 50:47

with with people um one thing that i remind myself of is okay three things let's say is um take one step at a time um one thing that i also prioritize is balance um so i always forget to balance sometimes and it's something i have to constantly remind myself so it's good to reflect on that and to bring it back uh sometimes um and feel for one i actually forgot so it clearly wasn't that strong in the mind but yeah just keep showing up I guess oh yeah that was it but yeah even through a lot of these things, I am quite nervous and quite scared sometimes to make the changes that I am doing and being bold in the moment. And that's absolutely okay. I have to remind myself that at this point, still early in my career and life, hopefully, that I'm at that stage where many people then stop what they're doing because they're finding it a hard point of their life or a hard part of their work. And that i'm going to keep on pushing through because this is that maybe at the time where people start to give up um and then i remind myself one step at a time and um and then for the one it's a bit cheesy it's that be for change you want to see it's it's written on my whiteboard upstairs in addition to um i won't say for swear word but it says push um Because discomfort equals growth. I had to try and think about not adding the swear words I added on my whiteboard there. But yeah, that's absolutely what I speak to myself and what I would recommend for other people.

SPEAKER_01: 52:34

Thank you, Danny. I think some great nuggets of wisdom there. I think it's a really good point that you make. I think there is this, you know, change is often uncomfortable. Progress is often uncomfortable. And growth is often uncomfortable. comfortable as much as we you'll no doubt get the benefits the changes that you're making and that will be sweet but often with that there comes a lot of the this background stuff that you're doing as well so I commend you very much on your journey but I think it's a really powerful message for students to listen as well for when they come to university so much change happening but you're a great example of look how much change you can go through and you can do and you can make a difference um is really really inspiring so um danny thank you so much for your time it's been an absolute pleasure

SPEAKER_00: 53:28

thank you james

SPEAKER_02: 53:33

you