Chronic Illness, Caregiving, and Long-Term Care Planning with AnnMarie Entner

This week on Chat with Nat, we are re-releasing a meaningful conversation from Natalie’s original show, Nickels and Dimes: Finding Financial Freedom.

This episode features Natalie’s conversation with AnnMarie Entner, a certified life coach who supports women living with rheumatoid arthritis and chronic pain. AnnMarie brings both professional insight and deeply personal experience to this conversation as someone living with rheumatoid arthritis, someone who cared for her mother through hospice, and someone who learned firsthand why self-advocacy, support, and long-term care planning matter.

At the time of the original recording, Natalie and AnnMarie talked openly about chronic illness, caregiving, family responsibility, financial preparedness, hospice care, long-term care planning, and the emotional weight of caring for someone you love while also caring for yourself.

This re-release is especially meaningful now as Natalie and her family grieve the recent loss of her mother. In many ways, this conversation reflects themes Natalie has continued to return to on Chat with Nat: caregiving is love in action, but love also needs support, boundaries, preparation, and a plan.

AnnMarie shares how her rheumatoid arthritis diagnosis changed her life, why women often “suck it up” instead of asking for help, and how caregiving for her mother taught her the importance of not leaving her own family unprepared. She also talks about the difference between caring for someone at home and helping a loved one find the right care facility, reminding listeners that caregiving can take many forms.

What You Will Hear

• AnnMarie’s rheumatoid arthritis diagnosis and how it changed her life
• Why chronic illness support and community matter
• The “suck it up” mindset many Gen X women carry
• How women with chronic pain can learn to advocate for themselves
• Why caregiving requires boundaries and self-prioritization
• What AnnMarie learned caring for her mother through hospice
• The emotional difference between caregiving as a daughter and arranging care for an in-law
• Why long-term care planning matters before a crisis
• How lack of preparation can create stress for adult children
• Why life insurance and living benefits are not only about death
• The financial impact of caregiving, chronic illness, COBRA, and medical costs
• Why preparation gives families more options
• How to talk with adult children about care, boundaries, and future wishes
• Why showing up matters, even when caregiving does not happen inside your home
• How AnnMarie is choosing to live fully with rheumatoid arthritis

This conversation is a beautiful reminder that caregiving is not one-size-fits-all. Sometimes caregiving means opening your home. Sometimes it means finding the safest facility. Sometimes it means managing paperwork, visiting often, asking better questions, or making sure your own children are not left with confusion later.

No matter what caregiving looks like, preparation creates more peace, more options, and more room to love well.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Casa De Confidence Productions, helping podcasters share conversations that matter with clarity, care, and confidence.

Guest Bio

AnnMarie Entner is a certified life coach who specializes in supporting women living with rheumatoid arthritis, chronic pain, and autoimmune conditions. Through her personal experience with rheumatoid arthritis and caregiving, AnnMarie helps women stop minimizing their pain, prioritize themselves, build resilience, and create a life that is not defined by their diagnosis.

She is also a wife, mother, grandmother, and advocate for women learning to live fully while navigating chronic illness.

Guest Links

Website: lifecoachingforchange.com
Instagram: @RA_warrior.advocate
Facebook: AnnMarie Entner

Thank you for listening to Chat With Nat: Caregiving, Money & Real Life Solutions. This podcast is your trusted guide for caregiving strategies, caregiver support, long-distance caregiving tips, financial planning for families, and managing caregiver burnout. Each week, we provide actionable advice, expert interviews, real caregiver stories, and practical tools to help you navigate caregiving challenges, protect your finances, and care with confidence.

Whether you’re caring for aging parents, managing adult children with special needs, or balancing caregiving with work, Chat With Nat is here to help you care smarter, avoid burnout, and feel supported every step of the way.

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Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome back to the special re-release of Natalie's Chat with Nat earliest episodes. As you may know, Natalie is taking some time away as she grieves the recent passing of her mom. We are continuing to hold Natalie and her family close during this incredible difficult season and giving her the space she needs to be present with the people she loves. While Natalie is away, we are revisiting a meaningful conversation with her friend Ann Marie Entner. Ann Marie is a certified life coach who supports women living with rheumatoid arthritis, drawing from her own experience with a chronic illness, caregiving, and learning to prioritize her well-being. This episode feels especially poignant right now. Natalie and Ann Marie talk openly about caring for aging parents, asking for help, preparing for the future, and the emotional way that can also come from loving someone through illness and loss. They also remind us that caregiving does not always mean doing everything yourself. Sometimes the greatest gift we can give the people we love is our presence. Whether you're currently caring for a loved one, thinking about your family's future, or simply learning to take better care of yourself, we hope this conversation brings you comfort, encouragement, and a reminder that you do not have to carry everything alone. Here's Natalie's conversation with Ann Marie.(Music) I'm your host Natalie Kaim, and today I'm speaking with Ann Marie Entner, a very good friend of mine. Ann Marie is a certified life coach who specializes in working with women who have rheumatoid arthritis. Having personal experience with this condition, Ann Marie is passionate about empowering and supporting individuals on their journey of self-discovery and personal growth. She believes in embracing pain as a catalyst for personal development and sees challenges as stepping stones towards defining one's path in life. Outside of her career as a life coach, Ann Marie is a loving mother, devoted wife, and proud grandmother. She values family and finds joy in nurturing relationships and creating lasting memories with loved ones. With her compassionate and empathetic approach, Ann Marie helps her clients let go of what has held them back and paves the way for positive transformation and renewed mental fitness. If you're looking for guidance, support, and a partner in your personal development journey, Ann Marie Entner is a trusted Ad-Lai. Her expertise as a certified life coach coupled with her experience with rheumatoid arthritis and trauma survivor makes her well-equipped to help you overcome obstacles and achieve a fulfilling life. Ann Marie, thank you for being here with me today. I'm so excited to spend some time talking with you. Oh, Natalie, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here also. Yay. So, Ann Marie and I met, gosh, it's probably been close to two years ago through some mastermind groups we're in and some coaches that we've worked with, but we actually met in person last year at a retreat last September and had the absolute best time. And we're going back next month. Yeah. So, I can't wait. I can't wait. I am. So, I'm very excited. I'm very excited and I believe it's a little bit different. And this year I'm an ambassador and you're presenting again. So, yay. Yes. It's going to be amazing. So, I'm looking forward to giving you a hug in person. Me too. I'll take it and I'll give it back. Awesome. So, you're much Jeff, right? When you're calling us. We're absolutely ridiculous. Let's be honest. It's fine though. Everybody needs that excitement at a women's retreat. I think. I agree. I could eat a goose ball and I'm usually it. Yeah, exactly. And I'm egging you on. So, it's good. It's good. Not that I need it, but thank you. So, Annemarie, I always start off my episodes with an icebreaker question and I think you've listened to some. So, you're probably familiar with the question. But, if you could be any superhero, who would you be and why? Oh, so. I think I have to stretch Armstrong. Really? Yeah. You know, I thought about this. I mean, it's a man, which is weird, right? Okay. Being and much different than where I was probably two years ago, because I was something should all be Wonder Woman. But, you know, being I have a chronic condition, my bones are very stiff a lot of times. And I just wish I could just move so easily and stretch Armstrong with a character that was, you know, I think on TV, if I remember correctly. And it was a toy. And I remember pulling it and thinking like, wow. And I'm back there again. I wish I could just move that easily. Mm. I love that. And you know what? I don't even, who cares that it's a guy. The whole point. Oh, I don't care. Yeah. I mean, the point of that question is I think it gives an insight into who you are based on who you choose, not by, you know, whether they're male or female, tall or short, fly or run fast or whatever it is, but it's their characteristics as an individual superhero. It's, you know, the powers and the way that they use them. But also I think a little bit of their backstory. But I think that's a really good example for you, which I say at every single episode that the answer always fits so well. And I mean, I can completely understand that for you knowing your, your journey and, and kind of your struggle with that, which let's, let's just jump in there to begin with. Maybe give a little bit of your background from like when you were diagnosed and kind of how that's led led you into what it is that you're doing in your coaching. Absolutely. So for me, it started off in 2019 with my diagnosis, but in 2017, I decided I was going to get healthy. And the definition of healthy is different for everybody. But my first was to quit smoking, which I did. And then I started running again and being an athlete like I was when I was younger. And I was, I've done many five Ks and a 10 K and I was like, you know, I need a new challenge. And I started training for a half marathon that was going to be in Savannah and all going good. I've, I've struggling with, you know, aches and pains, but you know, I was an athlete, broke many fingers, broke toes, bones, all of it. So I talk about the either suck it up generation. That's the generation X. We suck everything up and I'm on another mission with that one, but that's how I was playing golf for her breast cancer. And I came home and my feet were numb, my right foot and especially, and it didn't get better. So I went to the doctor and he said, Oh, it looks like a bone spurs, just the way it's laying. Great. Did the PT, nothing worked, got the surgery because you know how insurance works. And I went and had surgery on December 9th and on December 19th, I got a call back from a pathologist saying it was just a rheumatoid nodule. So I never had a diagnosis like that before. Usually you get it, you know, in the office, but in instant my life changed. In that moment in my house, on my couch, it changed. And my first thought was I'm going to be a cripple. Yeah. I'm not because I chose a different path of what I thought of afterwards was how was I going to work at this? I am a risk taker. So I went risky. I did all the, you know, if it was a bad drug, I was taking it. So I do. I take all the drugs my doctors tell me. But what I didn't have was the support. And this is why I'm doing what I'm doing. Women, especially this generation of the Gen X, we tend to suck everything up and everybody feels much more important than us. And I got tired. I got tired of that putting me as a priority. I got tired of living in pain. I got tired of all of it. And I didn't have a voice. And I know a lot of us don't have that voice. And working with women, they hear them say that they can't walk up the stairs. Then they're crawled up mine. I can't go to the bathroom and get that toilet paper. Then they're have that and not to have a space or someone to talk to to help you say you're not alone. You get to move forward. You don't have to suck it up because that's part of what I talk about a lot. And we can change that thought. We are not our disease for sure. And we don't have to live that disease, but we can live with it, which is what we're not taught because everything was sucked up in our lives. Yeah, I love that because I know you were really kind of frameworking your business last year when we met in person. We went a couple of days before the retreat. We really got, I think, a full six days together. And so there was a lot of time that we got to talk and share about what we do and why we do it. And I know that for you, the catalyst for you stepping into this work was exactly that. There wasn't a community that you found throughout your process, throughout your diagnosis, throughout your struggles to manage your arthritis, where you felt like you could just explain what you were feeling and have people understand it and that it was openly talked about. And I think that's one of the similarities between what your personal struggle is and what you coach people through. And where I coach people is finances is not something people typically talk about. And so we had a lot of conversations about how it's time to make sure that people talk about what it is they need, whether it's in regards to something physically challenged, whether it's in regards to something emotionally challenging, whether it's something about their finances, they're struggling at work, whatever, that those communities are so important. And maybe for that, it comes from the fact that the places that we've interacted and the place we met were communities of women coming together to support one another in building businesses and stuff. And so we got comfortable talking about all of that and it built from there. I don't know. But I think you're right. You know, it's so important that whatever it is that's on your plate, you find a place that you can set it down for a little. Absolutely. I agree with that. And I believe for you, when I met you, it was all a seed. Plant those seeds. I plant seeds and we don't have to live like this. We must put ourselves first. We must make ourselves a priority. We must have a baseline of what we're willing to deal with our pain. Where before was, "Oh, I can't do that." Especially when I took care of my mother, I had to draw a line of like,"I have RA. If I work too hard, I'm going to make it worse." I didn't want to overwork it. And I think this is where you and I really connected was I was the caregiver. And I had to stop in my steps with,"I need to get her somebody in my house. I can't do it. I'm important. She's important, but I'm only as good to her as long as I'm taking care of myself first." Hard lesson. Hard lesson to go through when you're taking care of someone in hospice. But yeah, it was a well, many lessons I learned with her. But it was definitely that taught me that I've got to be your RA coach because we're not putting ourselves first. Yeah, absolutely. And you touch on an important point there. In several of my episodes, I've talked about the different products that I work with and the different things that they provide and have touched on. I think it was in episode three with Tony Serrano, we really talked about long-term care and living benefits and the importance of them. And what those can provide when you're dealing with a terminal illness, a chronic illness, a critical illness, a critical injury, things like that. And so you kind of bring us to the point of here you are, you've gotten a diagnosis. You're about, let's see, so last year was 2023. So you're about three, three and a half years, right? I have, it'll be six years that I have it. But yeah, I can't add 2019. That's okay. Yeah, it's almost six years and never thought about long-term care, which is amazing, until I met you and taking care of my mother. Well, I mean, that goes back to the fact that we just don't get an education about it. And so many people think of life insurance only as if you die too soon. And that's where I do my best to scream from the rooftops and in every avenue that I get the chance to of how important it is to realize that life insurance is if you live too long, even as much as, if not more than, if you die too soon. And so you brought up the fact that here you are dealing with this chronic condition. You're at this point four or five years into the process and you become a caretaker of your mom. So you're managing your own chronic condition. You're realizing you've got to prioritize yourself and get some help with your mom, but you were a full-time caretaker in your home for your mom, correct? Yes, absolutely. I put everything on hold. Everything was like, even my business, I just stopped. I got certified, stopped, and I was like, "Okay, she needs me." Again, I take none of that back. It was the best thing I ever did was to have my mom for years. But to watch the unpreparedness that she had and was pretty devastating. I think that's kind of the word because I would be like, I would come out of her room going, "I don't want to live like this. I don't want to live like this. I don't want to live like this. My daughter is taking care of me. They can throw me wherever they want." But honestly, I have to be able to put myself in that place. That was the difference that I learned after she passed that I have to do that. Not my family. I want to take that burden off of them. I can't even say that my mother was a burden, but I did worry like, "Oh my God, how is this going to happen?" My mother didn't prepare. My care didn't prepare. Yeah. They didn't prepare for retirement. They didn't prepare for long-term care. They even did a reverse mortgage on their house. That's a complete shit show after she passed. It's the no-wills, all of it. If you could think of the worst scenario, I have it. Yeah. Then I have my mother-in-law who did everything from the nines, where we don't know she's living in a facility now doing well. Yeah. But it's still rough to remember what I did here, what I did with my mom. I don't ever want to do that to my daughter. Yeah. My stepson, I want to make sure that it's taken care of, and I've taken those steps. We've made our well. We've made our plans. We've gotten new investments. We've got the long-term care all set up. But it took being shook. Yeah. In a place like, "Oh my God, I don't want to do that." You're right. There is no education. Absolutely no education whatsoever. It's sad as a woman. Even as a business woman, now I'm like, I have to have all- we're not taught any of that. We're not taught on how to move forward, take care of ourselves, plan for the future. I keep telling my daughter,"Make sure you got all that." She's like, "Oh, Mom, don't worry. I got it all." Because not only did she see what I saw with my mother, she saw me not doing it. Yeah. I was very happy that I did do it. Yeah. So it was a well-rounded lesson. I won't do the same mistakes. I won't make those mistakes of putting all of it on her. I've got everything going on. I'm talking to you. You are the catalyst of me talking to get my husband on board. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we had a really great conversation when I talked with you and your husband too about just what different options you guys had to look into. I'm really happy that you guys followed that path and got things set up too. I think I want to jump back to where you said, "I don't want to be a burden on my daughter." Look, there's so many ways that we need to look at the definition of words differently because there is the negative connotation of burden. I have to do this and I don't want to. There's also the other side where for me, I have always known that I wanted to take care of my parents in my home for as long as I could when the time came. Yet, there is still a burden that comes along with that and not a burden in the sense that I wish I didn't have to do it or I resent them. The emotional. Yeah. It's a weight to carry. That's a definition of burden is a weight that you carry. Now, whether it's a weight you choose to carry and you're grateful for, like you mentioned and like I feel, I'm so grateful that as their life winds down in some ways, I get to be there for the everyday part of it. It's coming full circle in life because as my life was winding up, they were there all day, every day, hands-on, making sure I had what I needed when I was little. To be able to give that back is a really beautiful thing. This is a point I want to touch on and I've said this so many times before, that me saying that is never a condemnation against anyone who chooses not to be a caretaker because it is not an easy road. It's not an easy road when you want to do it. Adding on the fact that you don't feel like you're wired for that, it's okay to say I'm not. But even more so in those situations, being financially prepared is so much more important because having a family member or taking in a family member, we leave some of that financial burden, the everyday living expense, the room and board side of it. But if you're not going that route, you've got to have things set up that can provide that when you need it, in the facilities that can provide every level of care that you're going to need as you decline over time. Right? Absolutely. Let me ask you this. Your mom was with you for three years. But was your thought process, I want to be able to take care of my mom or did it come from the necessity? Or maybe both? It came from both. It came from sitting on my dad, watching my dad pass because I took care of him to the end also. He gave me a message, not knowing it at the time, but he told me I was strong and I was a good girl and kind, and all the things that you want to hear from your parents. But honestly, the way he said strong through me for a loop, meaning he was giving me a message and I didn't know it. My mom wasn't strong, she couldn't make these decisions and I had to step in. Not that I made them like,"Mom, this is what you're doing." I had to have conversations with her. I had to tell her what was going on with her health. I had my husband help me. So I knew I had to do it. I also wanted to do it. Yeah. I am a caretaker at heart, but for me, it was the best. But in the process, knowing I had to take care of myself first, which again, I can't stress enough if you're going to do that. Date nights are very important, getting out, friends, all of that. I wouldn't take a day back. But I know some people that are not made for that. I'm not made to take care of my mother-in-law. Yeah. We're just talking flipside. I mean, physically in our home. She's a lot more emotionally needy. My mother was just physically needy. Yeah. So there's a difference. Neither one of us could do it. We talked about it. Coming to a place of compassion for both of us and her. We did the research on where to find the best place for her. Both of us have come from a health field. My husband's in the health field. I've worked in the health field. In facilities. So I knew, we both knew what to look for. And we went to Mettie, and she's in the best place for her. Yeah. And we still are caring for her. She's just not being cared for in our home. Yeah. And oh, that's such a good point because there are levels of caretaking. Like when you have a loved one that's in a home, in a facility, whatever that looks like. Like caretaking is so many levels. And the basic level of caretaking is just showing up. Showing up, visiting, letting them know you're there. Now there will come a time my mom doesn't remember all of us, likely. But even she doesn't remember. But I think that her soul will always remember. Right. She'll always know that we're important people in our lives. She may not know exactly our name or the exact relation we have. But I think that the soul remembers. I'm a believer. And so. Absolutely. We did that. Yeah. So that's where my faith goes. And so that's the most beautiful part of caretaking is just showing up. You know, the other part is the work and the part that gets heavy and feels like a burden. But definitely, you know, if you don't feel like you're wired, if your life is not set up to be able to accommodate that, like this is your permission slip to hold your head up and not feel guilty about that. You know, not carry the burden of the fact that that's not right for you. Because if you force yourself into that kind of position, let's be honest, then your loved isn't getting the care that they deserve. Right. Because there are some amazing, amazing people out there, even in facilities. You know, it's not just a job for them. It's it's not, you know, unfortunately, there are some it is. And I mean, you can do your research and find horror stories. But if you do your homework, you can find some really great places. And there are, I think, more really special people who know how to not only meet the needs of the people they're taking care of, but but truly learn to love them as individuals. You know, they they still I saw that life. Someone who has worked someone who's worked. So I worked in a retirement senior living independent and we had an Alzheimer's unit. So it was kind of, you know, like an assisted living place. Yeah, it was like a bunch of grandparents. He loved going to work. I loved every bit of it because I didn't have grandparents. Well, my grandparents had passed. And then once that I didn't know, my grandmother lived in California. And back in the 80s, we didn't fly as frequently as we do now. So, you know, it was just phone calls. So I didn't really know her. But I fell in love with every one of them. I enjoyed going to work. What I didn't enjoy about the work was them passing. And which each one that passed, I took it even harder. So even though I loved it, I loved every aspect of it. I couldn't do it anymore. Yeah, I still talk very lovingly, but it was the best. I mean, going on this trip, I went to New York City with some of them. We would have dance parties. I mean, there's so much and they're doing more now in these places than they did when I was there. Yeah. So it's it's more. It's more community. Like when I go to my mother-in-law's, I see a community, which is really nice. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, like my husband went today and he's like, oh, yeah, she she was out there today. You know, we don't know who we're going to see when we go there. Yeah. Is she going to be spot on or is she not going to be spot on? There's more not so spot on. But, you know, having her here and she's very into she's very stubborn and she would do what she wants. It would that would be part of the burden I couldn't handle. Yeah. Well, and I think it's different to, you know, when it's when it's your parent even versus your in-laws. Right. Yeah. I agree with that. But the difference is she's it was more she needed to be entertained. I can't entertain. I'm not a facility. Yeah. Yeah. So that was that. So making decisions for her to go to a place was the best decision for her. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I think, you know, I felt good about. He felt good about. And the fact that she set herself up. I mean, she set herself up for this. I mean, it's amazing. My mother couldn't afford to go to a place. I thought she didn't have the money. Yeah. She did. Yeah. And she's set for life. I mean, she could be there for another 10 years and be fine. Yeah. Well, and that's the flip side of what we talked about of being prepared, right? Is knowing that, um, you know, and, and for my parents, you know, they stayed in the, in the home that my brother and I grew up in for 43 years or so. Um, and so at the time that they sold it, you know, the increase in value was crazy, but we were able to, because their income in retirement is enough that they don't need that right now. We were able to put that place in places that, um, it can continue to grow and be protected until they do need it. And so it's going to be able to provide all those options for them when the time comes, because as much as I wanted to be the caretaker, there will come a point that I can't do everything they need. And so then it's, then it's okay. Do we need something in home, but on more of, you know, a nursing level and that kind of care level, or, you know, is it, is it looking for a facility where they can both go together? Because I know my, my dad would be with her, you know, and, um, and so there are, there are facilities like that, which is where I, which is where I worked. I was, that was the first time I had ever seen something that that a couple shared a room together. One was that you need the care and the, and the, and I remember Mrs. Noodleman, I mean, she was, she was a who, but she, she was very much, she had dementia that she would start having strokes and, you know, it was, it was hard on him. He stayed in us. And by the way, she passed. This is what I found so amazing was she passed and he stayed in assisted living and he didn't need it. Because he started, he stayed around to help the other, the other women. Yeah. It was beautiful. It was so beautiful. Yeah. Well, that became his community, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Which is what we all talk about community. Yeah. And, and you know, when I, when we were going through this process and having the conversation with my parents, this isn't going back and forth and, and getting all the paperwork we needed to have done, put in place, taking care of, you know, running their estate, sell, getting their house on the market, all of those things. As I was going through these processes, I had some of those conversations with my son. He was probably 20 or 21 at the time. And we were having these hard conversations about what paperwork do we need to have in place and getting all of that taken care of. And he said to me, mom, I love you, but I'm never going to take care of you. And I said, you know what, buddy, I, I love the fact that you felt like you could tell me that. And also, I don't want you to because you can be a little absent minded, you know, and, and that, that was really a joke. In all honesty, my son is amazing. And I know he would absolutely do the best he could, but I, I'm so grateful that for whatever reason, based on our relationship over time or whatever it was, he felt like he could tell me that. And I said, I said, here's the thing. I am setting everything up so that when I'm ready, I don't want the responsibility of the house anymore. I just want to be able to travel and, and hang out with my friends and things like that. Then I'm going to put myself into one of those communities. So somebody else takes care of the things I don't want to. I get to hang out with my friends. They do amazing trips all over the world in these communities. They have activities all the time. And who knows? Maybe, you know, maybe I'll get to that point when I'm still driving and all of that stuff. I just don't have to worry about the day to day responsibility of managing a home and all of that. And so I got a little condo in a retirement community that has the ability to provide more if, and when the time comes that I need it. But I get to be a part of a community again, of people in the same place in life that I am and, you know, build those relationships and enjoy that. So who knows what that'll look like or when the time comes, but I, you know, I was able to tell him, don't worry about it, buddy. Everything's going to be set up. And you know, my, my only request was that, you know, he keeps me nearby so he can come and see me. And I said, that was mine too. Yeah. And I went back to the, that's, that is the most important part of caretaking is the showing up part. Not, not having them in your home, not being able to, you know, manage all of their, their medicines, their physical care and all of that. It's, it's the showing up. It's the being present. I think that is, it's the most important. And I think oftentimes it's what, what gives those people on the other side of that situation that spark for their life, you know, and, and keeps them here. Yeah. I mean, my, my mother was 95. Yeah. She is. Yeah. So we put her, I keep saying, put, we, we, we found her a place. I don't like that. We put her in like, like, did I have a choice? We did have a choice. Of where she was going. We did say to her, you can't go home anymore. But. I totally lost my train of thought with that, but. Oh, she's 95. We don't know how long she's going to live, but she is living a better life today. Then she was six months ago in this facility. Yeah. And that's, that's a good point. Right. So she was still on her own until that time came. Right. So I mean, think about that independently living on her own in her home until almost 95 years old. Yeah. And you know, that being able to still have a say about what was best for you, I think that that would be my dream. I'll, I'll live as long as I'm supposed to stay on this earth. I just want to have as much of my capacities as I can. And so for her to be able to do that at 95 is a really beautiful thing. Yeah. And the other thing, it's interesting to watch. I will tell you that much. So she went from, we didn't really know how she was declining because she didn't, she wasn't living close to us. And last year at this time, we brought her out to be near us. And we actually got to see it. Even though we were going to visit her, you know, she had a lock. She had, she had to let us in. We didn't see exactly what was going on, but she could get herself together before we got there. When she was literally a quarter of a mile down the road from us and we popped in and we started to see. That's showing up, right? Showing up. We were seeing on a more consistent basis what was happening. So my husband and I were already having these conversations before. Yeah. And planning the course of how are we going to have this conversation with her? Cause there's going to be, there's going to be pushback. Yeah. Well, I think you, like one of the things you touched on a few minutes ago, as you said, it was something that, that you and your husband both felt really good about it. And that's what it comes down to is feeling, feeling good about it. Like giving your permission to set your boundaries wherever they are, because that means you can show up the best wherever it is you're able to show up, but to be able to feel good about the way that you move forward in a situation like that is so, so important. Yes. Um, I think as a mother, and I'm sure you can relate this, you said to you, you set yourself up, right? Yeah. I know my daughter will want to help me, but you know what? I don't want her to have to help me. I want her to show up what she can. And, um, that's the gift I want to give her is that if she wants to go full on, that's great. If she wants to visit me in a nursing home, then that's great too. I mean, that's kind of how I looked at it after all of that I've been doing for the past 10 years, taking care of my in-laws and my parents. Yeah, absolutely. You know, just giving them options, right? Just, just to have the option to make different choices is, is important. I think in any situation, but especially when it comes to something like this, you know, what, what, and sometimes too, I think, you know, I feel really blessed. I feel lucky that my whole dream and desire to take care of my parents someday came to fruition, but there could have been a circumstance that took it out of my hands, right? A health situation to where there was no place for me to fit in the middle there because, you know, there was a stroke or something, something severe that I just couldn't provide it and it couldn't be provided in a home in a way that made sense. And so as much as that was, that was my plan, circumstances could have, could have taken that away. And that's where being prepared and having things lined out so that you can pull whichever, whichever lever it is, you need to pull along the way. You have the ability to pull it and you don't have to worry about the financial aspect of it. There's always going to be an emotional aspect of it, especially if it goes differently than you thought it would. But I think that can be eased a bit when preparation exists, right? And I am, I am a huge, I never realized how much I am about this now. Everything needs to be prepared because we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that's what I have learned, you know, my mother wasn't strong enough to figure it out. Not that I made her decision. I just kind of, kind of teased. Yeah. Cause I was able to do that. I wasn't telling her she had to do, and this is what you need to do. I'd be like, all right. You know, I, she had to see her own mortality. The difference that my mother is, my, my mother and Laura, she doesn't see her own mortality. She thinks she's going to live to like, you know, 500, you know, and Moses is still going to come and take her somewhere, you know, you never know. You never know. But yeah, I mean, my mother knew her destiny, what was going to happen. I mean, she, she had herself had a chronic condition. She had, you know, COPD and, um, she knew it was coming. My mother loves this is not seeing it. Yeah. And that's, that was the difference in taking care of them. Cause I would be like, you do realize that, you know, you're 95. I mean, and she'd be like, but I don't feel like it. And I'm like, okay, but you know, I could still do what I want to do. And I'm like, you're really not, but okay. Like in my head, I would never say it's over. But you know, where my mother was like, well, you know, I just pray that I'm here another day. Yeah. And it was completely different. Yeah. I definitely think there's a difference, you know, in the personalities too. And I think the closer, or I believe that the closer you get to that time, more of that likely comes into clarity for sure. Um, so I w I want to kind of jump back to, you know, I think that's, that's the difference. And we talked a little bit about what not being prepared for it looks like, um, you know, and how, how you're doing things differently. We talked about that. But your mom was with you for three years. How much of that time were you that the hands on everyday Kate caretaker before you were like, I can't do it all anymore. And, and even begin to take care of myself. Two years. Okay. So two years, you managed it all. And then that last year I saw that it, I saw, I saw the decline in her and I knew I couldn't do it all. I physically couldn't do it all because of the pain. My husband worked, he was traveling a lot. Um, so it was on me. Um, I just couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it. And something clicked at me. I don't know. You know, the coaching me, maybe. I don't know. She was like, all right, you need to stop. Because you're not helping her. But it was hard for me to do what I had to do. I should have back away. Yeah. You had to give control. You had to give away control. I had to back away with, um, I would say that she, she wanted me and only me. And that, and I loved that part of it. Like I love that she just wanted me, but, um, I had to be like, mom, you need to take a shower and she like, we'll do it later. And she, you know, it was hard to breathe so it would be getting harder and harder and harder. And it was harder on me basically. And I was like, I just can't do it mom. And I would just let it go further and further and further until she finally agreed. I need, I need help. Yeah. Which I already had somebody on speed dial. She just didn't know like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. Okay. You were prepared. But here's the thing about that, where I was going and going back to this conversation is this is part of what we got to talk about when we had one on one time together last year. Um, about where I was in the caretaking journey and what you had been through because you lost your mom. Just a couple of months before that last year. And what I remember. So vividly as you and I were talking as you would share with me the times that once you had that care come in, there were things you could no longer do. You got to just be present that you would go and watch what you'd watch shows with her. And you got to just enjoy being there with her and somebody else took care of her needs. But you just got that time. And I remember you saying that, you know, sometimes she would call for you and she just want you to sit and watch a show with her. You'd go in there and just have a conversation with her and how beautiful that must have been to not have you carried the burden as long as you could, but then to set down the burden and just be able to be present. And you were able to still keep her in your home until she was correct. Yes. I was able to, um, because I was able to get hospice for her and I had to talk her. I had to explain, um, cause everybody has a really bad idea of what hospice is. Yeah. Everybody thinks that hospice comes in and you're getting ready to die. My mother could have had hospice two years prior. I mean, that's, I mean, she needed palliative care. She was never getting better. Um, my sister thinks that my sister's in the healthcare field. She thinks hospice is that they kill you. Mm-hmm. You know, I had it saying, no, no, it's just lovely care. I mean, I had a lot of people coming in, but having someone come in, um, at that time was, and I had my daughters, my daughters, I mean, people from outside help us. Our sister-in-law helped. She was a PT and she would come and give her bath. So I didn't have to do it. Um, sit with her, did her hair the whole nine yards. I was doing all of it, but the, the, when I got to release all of it, again, there's that weight. That you, that you get, you're just losing and it feels good. But the time I spent with her, um, I slept in her room with her. Yeah. I have, and all the pictures of kid coming up, Amita's taking pictures of her watching television. And I can almost guarantee you that it was the Hallmark Channel. It was some kind of, you know, chappy ending story. Cause my mother only liked happy ending. And I had a happy ending with her here. Yeah. And I think that's, I think that's really beautiful that you've got that, that time you got that happy ending. And I'm sure in some ways, maybe that made some pieces of it harder. Greeting that loss because you've got to just be with your mom, not as, not as a caretaker, as a daughter. And also the flip side of, so, so I guess maybe a double edged sword on one side, you got that time which brought you closer and you got to just be her daughter and love on her before she went. And then the flip side of that is that because you, you got that closeness in that time, that, that grief is, is even more difficult. It is, it is difficult. It's, um, I'm in her room. So she's with me every day. And I cry about, just watching her at the end, she wasn't ready. She mentally wasn't ready, but her body was just done. And watching someone, with their body just giving out, it changes your perspective on what you want in life, which made me stronger with what my plan in life is. But she sucked up a lot and put us first and did other things. But for eight years, she took care of my dad and not our own self. That's the, that's the part that I, I learned the most about. Cause right until my father died, she got sick. Or I should say sick. So having that time along with her and having a nurse here checking on her, I mean, I haven't to worry about her meds and ordering them. And it took that responsibility off my shoulders. And that was the gift I gave myself by having the conversation with her. Yeah. No, I think that's, I think that's really beautiful. And thank you for, you know, being vulnerable and and sharing all of the sides of that. There's a lot of times that I share that part of my story, I share about my parents and it will get emotional too. And I'll be on a Zoom with a client talking about the importance of long-term care, living benefits. And when I explain firsthand why it's so important to me and why I'm so passionate about it, you know, I'll walk down that, that little path a little bit, get a little, I'll get a little choked up. And, but that's also what makes it real and sometimes helps the message to reach whoever needs to hear it from listening to this, from listening to this episode. So I appreciate that. I want to, I want to kind of circle back to you now in focusing on your, your care and what you need. You're, you're building a business to support other women, but you're, you are walking the walk on an ongoing basis. We talked, where we got on the call that you are in a multi-week flare with your rheumatoid arthritis. And last fall, when we, when we first talked after meeting in person in September, I think it was October-ish and I sat down with you and your husband, we went over some different things. And I know there was a possibility. He felt like that he could be losing his job. And then it was about a month, maybe four to six weeks later, maybe not even that long, three or four weeks later, we met back up and it was a minute. Yeah. He had been notified. It was, it was coming. And I know for you, that was a big fear because you're, I mean, you're not 65. You're not on Medicare yet. So you don't have that guaranteed care in those things in place that you need, but you require a lot medically for your condition. And so here you were facing, okay, if he loses his job, we lose our insurance. How do I get the kind of insurance I need? What does that look like? How much is that going to cost? And we looked at, you know, the cost of Cobra and all of that. And it was like, well, you share just a little bit about maybe that, maybe that process. For me, I went to pure panic. I mean, if you remember, I called you immediately like, what am I going to do? I need health insurance. And I know, I knew in the back of my head that I would have Cobra. But what if my husband didn't get enough jobs? Yeah. It was expensive. The F, very big. Yeah. Big, big. Oh, and we went online, we were looking at places to go. My doctors are not in my state of Pennsylvania. If you go on state insurance, I could go to state doctors, which I was not happy about because my doctors are amazing. So the fear and the anxiety and the overwhelm built more and built more and built more. I had a step away. I had to take a pause because I was doing myself no good. Absolutely no good in that. I had to put myself in a place though, my husband's awesome. He'll get that job. My business isn't big enough or bringing in enough to cover myself insurance, to be a self-insured like that. He didn't get a job until May. It was like January that he found out and May. So we spent a lot of money on Cobra. I could have taken a very nice vacation. There's always something at the other end, if you just release it. Yeah. When I release it, I had to believe that something was going to happen. I had a timeline of like, well, if something doesn't happen by a certain amount of time, and it was August, it's already August, that I would have to go on state insurance. Not that I wanted to, it was what it was, and I would figure it out. That's how I look at everything with my chronic condition. I can figure it out. Not that I'm possible or I'm a bad-ass. I could just figure it out because when you have a chronic condition, I was in remission for a year. It's back with a vengeance. You don't know. You just don't know. So if you're not prepared, and we weren't prepared, so it grew me into, let's get prepared on top of what my mother did. We were talking about it, but it threw us into the, let's get it done now. If I had a message for anybody to hear from me, don't wait. Do it now. Yeah. Because here's the thing too, is there's the get prepared by, hey, look, there's all products out there that can provide the option to get care. The thing is, you were already diagnosed with this. Not already having a chronic illness plan in place, it's really difficult to qualify for one, once you've already been diagnosed. It's near impossible too. Now, there are products that have some other options that can fill in the gaps in different ways, which thank goodness for that. What a blessing that there are those in place. But that's where being prepared, not just with the kind of coverages that can take care of that, but what if something happens to your coverage, like your medical coverage, you're not even close to Medicare yet. Who knows what the age is going to be by the time I get there? Yeah, exactly. When you look at that, it's the being prepared from a financial perspective overall, that you know you have the means to tap into if you had to for COBRA coverage. Even in that, there was a timeframe that, hey, if it gets to this point, we're going to have to go in another direction, but I can't control that. Right now, I'm going to surrender to what is, I'm going to take advantage of the resources we do have. If it comes to that, it comes to that. We'll go down that road. That's where being prepared, being prepared in regards to anything in life gives you options. Yeah. Just gives you options. Whether it's financial preparedness, health coverage preparedness, critical and chronic illness preparedness. When you set yourself up, you just have different options. Sometimes, it's still not going to bridge the entire gap. But when you step back, you were able to say, "Okay, here's the timeframe for this, and then we go to this." Like you said, if we get to that point, it just is what it is. That's the path I've got to walk for a little while. But you guys had enough in place that it ended up getting you where you needed to go. Yeah. It wasn't like we didn't have anything, but it was money-wise, but it was more we didn't have it allocated correctly. That's really what it came down to. Even now that everything's better, we're talking about getting a secondary for me. I'm like, "Maybe we should get me a secondary." He's like, "That's a good idea." Because my medication is expansion. Who knows? I get a kubai, they give you a copay kubai. That could be taken away tomorrow. Yeah. What do I do then? That's such another good point, is that even if you have the best medical coverage, even if you have things in place for when you need more extensive care, whatever that looks like in your situation, you could still be on medications that are hundreds of dollars a month. Even though you have- Mine's$5,000 a month. There you go. My insurance paid so much, and then there's a copay, and then there's my part. I bet the company itself had a copay program or a coupon program, which most people don't know. If you're ever on a specialty drug, I'm throwing this out there, you need to find out who makes your drug and see if they have a coupon for you. No one tells you that. Yeah. There's a manufacturer's coupon that you can use. My girlfriend is a pharmacist for me. Yeah. I'm letting everybody know. There's help out there. Even I just did for your eyes, I forget what it's called, I have dry eye syndrome. There's a copay coupon for that too. Instead of paying the$300 for that cost a month, I'm getting it for $30. Yeah. So yeah. I'm definitely looking a lot differently at how I look at life. Yeah. Well, I had a lot of things in play, like losing my mother and her not being prepared. My mother won't be over prepared and being okay with where she went. My husband losing her job. We have an extra house that we have. We don't want to waste our money. We want to be more fiscally mature. Yes, we'd be accountable. Yeah. Well, and at the end of the day too, you still want to be able to live life and enjoy it too. Yeah. Right? So even if you're prepared, but if you have to put all your money towards that, then you don't get to travel or you don't get to do the things with the grandkids with your daughter and things like that that are so important to you. That's why I do it now. Yeah. I've been saying this a lot now. I am making memories today for when I'm gone. That when they think about me, they're going to remember that I was a fighter. Yeah. That nothing stopped me from living life. It's my fullest with a chronic condition. I love that. I love that. One thing I want to share is we touched on the prescription thing. If you are on a prescription like that, you can go to GoodRx and you can look up the name of your prescription. You can find out who the manufacturer is if you don't know. There's oftentimes links in there that will take you right to those manufacturers websites where you can look up what kind of programs they might have. There's usually a former application process where you can just write through their website, submit information to get that help. It's not a nightmare process, believe it or not. But there are definitely a lot of those benefits that are available today. Yeah. I'm glad. The first time you do it, I will say the first time you do it, the first time you do it, it's nerve-wracking and it feels like it takes forever. After that, it's a breeze. Yeah. Then you know what to do, right? Yeah. Well, the option, press one, press two, but it's fine. It works. Honestly, no one tells you that. In the doctor's office, they don't tell you that and I don't know why. Yeah. I have my ideas of why, but that's a whole other conversation. You don't have time for that. A sidebar. Yeah. Yeah. Well, as we wind down, Anne Marie, again, thank you so much for taking the time to be here, to share some of your story. My goal with my podcast is to educate people as much as I can. But there's maybe book learning or book education, the facts and the figures and the things like that I can share. But I'm grateful to be able to have you come on here, somebody that's struggling with your own situation, as well as having been a caretaker that can tell a real life story different than mine or in addition to mine, because not every situation is the same. So I'm incredibly grateful to have you spend some time with me today talking about all this. As we wind down, anything else you want to share before we go? Can people reach out to you if they're looking for some help going through something similar as to what you are? Well, you can always go on my webpage, which is lifecoachingforchange.com. But you can see me living life on Instagram. And that would be at RA_warrior.advocate. I share all things, good and bad. And Facebook also, just my name, Anne Marie Attenar. And soon to be, I'll be on my own podcast and educating and hearing stories of other women that have a chronic condition, any kind of autoimmune or pain, because we need to be heard. Yeah, absolutely. And we'll have all those links of where you can find Anne Marie in the show notes. So you can definitely look there for those. You can always reach out to me directly and I can put you in contact with her. But Anne Marie, I cannot wait to see you again next month and get back up to our shenanigans. Keep the house exciting at this beach vacay. So anyway, thank you guys for listening, for joining us today. I'm your host, Natalie Kaim. And I look forward to continuing to bring you amazing content each week that will educate you, support you, and most importantly, help you to find financial freedom. I look forward to having you listen each week and learn in future episodes. So until then, take care and stay safe.