The Norwegian StoryTELLER
Welcome to The Norwegian StoryTELLER
A podcast with storytelling perspectives from the North.
Hosted by Line Konstali, pardon my NorwEnglish
I have always told other people’s stories. They have been able to use me as a tool to reach out. Now, I tell fragments of my own story. At the same time, I also give you perspectives I have gained from participating in all the stories that are told.
I also encourage you to tell your own story. Because I have seen that the world needs these stories. So what are we waiting for?
Let’s tell stories together! Follow this podcast for inspiration.
The Norwegian StoryTELLER
Cultures in Contrast: Tackling Mental Health Stigma from Norway to Nepal
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Navigating the often unspoken realm of mental health, my own journey through the cultural silence of Norway's society reveals the deep-seated challenges and stigma surrounding this issue. As we peel back the layers of discrimination in the workforce and the generational echoes of mental health struggles, this episode offers a raw look at the unseen battles many face. Moving from the Nordic quietude to the vibrant cacophony of Nepal, we uncover a global perspective, urging a shift from solitary to collective advocacy, and from patronizing help to true partnership in healing.
We then anchor ourselves in the importance of maintaining core values amidst our pursuit of mental health awareness. This episode is not just a call to action, but a reminder of the hard-won equality and ongoing fight against systemic inequalities that weave through Norwegian history. Our conversation promises not only insight but also inspiration, bolstered by the melodic reflections of Taryn Harbridge and Adrian Dewan.
Here is some links:
https://www.youtube.com/@AdrianDewanOfficial
https://www.patreon.com/TarynHarbridge/posts
Mental Health Challenges in Norway/Nepal
Speaker 1Children of Norway play a game called the Bear Sleeps . One child is lying in the middle pretending to be a sleeping bear . The rest of the group is walking around the bear while singing the bear sleeps . The bear sleeps in his comfy cave . He will not be dangerous as long as we walk silently . But you can never , ever , ever be safe . And the last word safe . The children scream out loudly . Then the bear wakes up and starts to hunt for a new bear . The one who is caught will be the next bear in the game . Then they sing the same song over and over again . A new bear bears will come .
Speaker 1For many years I was just a sleeping bear in my comfy cave . I did not face all the pain that has created inside of me . Adult life handed me a challenging start . My mental health struggles led to years of therapy , during which discussing these issues felt like scaling a mountain . These battles have followed me into adulthood and still define me , whether I like it or not . Then came my daughter , inheriting some of my struggles . Her journey became another chapter in our family's life . The battles I fought made me silent . Words failed me when I tried to express my pain .
Speaker 1General understanding of mental illness among the public in Norway was lacking , and empathy wasn't always immediate . Instead of playing a lottery , every time I shared my struggles , where empathy was the jackpot and indifference was the loss , I choose silence . It was easier than risking that emotional gamble . I carried this silence into my professional life . My CV showcased my strengths , my life achievements , but there was an anti-CV my health journal . Norway's robust social welfare system allowed me to stay afloat financially during periods when I couldn't manage a regular job . However , this system has a flip side . Employers sometimes assume that people with disabilities and mental health conditions are the state's responsibility . If you listen to episode 5 and 6 in this podcast , you will hear some of my thoughts about discrimination in the Norwegian job market , so I encourage you to listen to it if you haven't done it yet . But anyway , watching the mental health debate unfold in Norway the last few years has been fascinating .
Speaker 1At the same time , I work in an organization who has mental health projects in Nepal , and this has provided invaluable perspectives . It is not a simple dichotomy of right and wrong . Nuances exist beyond wealth and poverty . My experiences in Norway and what I have learned about Nepal recently changed my perspective forever , and I continue to learn from their contrasting context . You see , in both our countries we need good solutions to an increasing problem .
Speaker 1Nepal struggles due to poverty and the lack of welfare solutions . Norway struggles because mental health has low priority in political processes . Everything else comes first . Mental health was always the least important . When I was young in the 90s , we talked about mental health like this Don't you know how grateful you are ? You live in the world's best country . What do you know about misery ? Then , as a communications worker in an organization working with mental health issues in Nepal , I learned the opposite .
Speaker 1You see , the same low priority of mental health in the Norwegian perspective also inspired the development works we do in countries with poverty . Education for all yes . Health support for everyone yes . Jobs and opportunities hooray . Tear down the classes and costs that make some people poor and some people rich . Yes , yes , yes . Change the system . The system is the people .
Speaker 1All these Norwegian values are so visible in our development project , but also the lack of mental health awareness , because we are not good at it in our country and we don't have any good results . So what can we do to help others ? The white savior perspective , where people from the West have their answers and people from the poor countries need us to be saved is really a bad perspective , especially when it comes to mental health . Think about it . Think about it . If you want to be a good swimmer , you don't ask a bad swimmer to teach you . So why should Norway , who struggles with bad system for mental health patients , make a difference in poor countries ? The only way to make a difference , in my view , is to be humble and also open to learn from the other side . Okay , global mental health is a huge problem today . Our worldwide vaccines programs have made us control lots of deadly diseases , so now we are facing the mental health tsunami . What do we do ? We are in this shit together and we have to find our way together . That also means that the rich countries must put the white savior complex aside and start discussing this mental health issue on an equal basis .
Speaker 1I will not now talk about mental health in Norway and Nepal , and remember , when you listen to me , I am not an expert on this field . I'm not a health worker or therapist . I'm only a mental health activist in Norway , trying to understand a complex system , trying to understand complex problems , trying to understand the world . I'm the bear that just woke up and got out of my comfy cave .
Speaker 1Nepal , a country nestled in the Himalayas , has a rich cultural heritage and a spectacular nature . Everywhere you travel , you see the mountains and the people are warm , gentle and welcoming . This is a country full of contrasts , so beautiful but yet so full of pain and ugliness . I see a lot of poverty on my journeys to Nepal , but above that is also the hope the hope in the eyes of the people that wants to make a better future for themselves and generations to come . According to UN , nepal has made significant steps in reducing multidimensional poverty . Over the past five years , the incidence of multidimensional poverty in Nepal fell from 30.1% in 2014 to 17.4% in 2019 . This means that approximately 3.5 million people were lifted out of poverty during this period . This process reaffirms Nepal's commitment to Agenda 2030 and its aspiration of becoming a prosperous Nepal , happy Nepali . This progress reaffirms Nepal's commitment to Agenda 2030 and its aspiration of becoming a prosperous Nepal , happy Nepali . But at the same time , the country also faces significant challenges in addressing mental health .
Speaker 1One of my friends in Nepal , a pioneer called Matrika Devkota , runs an organization called Koshish . The organization has been instrumental in advocating for change In Nepal . Individuals with mental illness have faced distressing practices , including being chained with metal shackles and confined by cramped rooms . These inhumane methods perpetuate stigma and hinder progress toward compassionate mental health care toward compassionate mental health care . Organizations like Koshish and advocates like Matrika Defkota are working tirelessly to change this narrative and promote understanding and dignity for those affected by mental health conditions .
Speaker 1He himself battled depression during his teenage years In Nepal , where mental health awareness was virtually non-existent . He was often labeled as crazy . His family attributed his struggles to demon possession or past life karma . Therapy and medication were unheard of . After eight years , he finally received medical attention , thanks to a Canadian missionary who funded his education . Matrikas' resilience led him to regain his self-respect and secure employment . His personal journey inspired him to establish Koshish , a non-profit organization . Through Koshish , he aimed to address the silent crisis faced by people with mental health issues . The organization advocates for human rights , fights stigma and empowers self-advocates . Matrika's efforts led to mental health being recognized as a national priority in Nepal's health sector reform plan .
Speaker 1Despite the progress , barriers persist . Nepalese legal restrictions deny voting rights and heritage and property ownership to individuals with mental health conditions . Stigma and negative attitudes persist . However , koshish continues to be a beacon of light , illuminating solutions and advocating for equality . Norway . It might be easy to judge the Nepali society for violating human rights , but you don't have to go far back in time in Norway before you see similar human rights violations . I will give you a concrete example from our country .
Speaker 1Lier Mental Hospital , located east in Norway , holds a painful legacy . For decades it was a place where individuals with mental health conditions suffered , subjected to experimental treatments and inhumane practices . Lier Asylum was established in 1926 as a psychiatric hospital serving the Buskerud and Vestfold regions . 1826 as a psychiatric hospital serving the Buskerud and Vestfold regions . Prior to this , mentally ill individuals were often placed in private care , including on farms , in so-called colonies . Unfortunately , the treatment during the period was characterized by neglect and dehumanization . Patients were often treated like animals , left in cold conditions without proper care or clothing . Lier Hospital actually started as a good thing , but it developed into an inhumane prison for mental health patients . You see , between the 1930s and the 1960s , lier Mental Health Hospital witnessed significant changes .
Speaker 1The prevailing belief that mental illness could be treated gained ground . As a result , experimental treatments were introduced . Men and women were subjected to lobotomies . This surgical procedure involved removing parts of the brain's frontal lobe . The hope was that it would alleviate symptoms of mental illness . However , the reality was far grimmer . Many patients suffered irreversible damage and some lost their lives .
Speaker 1In an era where psychedelic drugs were explored for therapeutic purposes , lier Mental Hospital administered drugs like LSD to patients . Their intent was to induce altered states of consciousness and potentially elevate symptoms . Unfortunately , the outcomes were unpredictable and patients endured prolonged periods of artificial sleep . Patients were often isolated in small rooms alone and without proper bedding . Bells and restraints were commonly used . The hospitals and staffing escalated the situation , leaving patients vulnerable and in pain . Lier mental hospital story serves a stark reminder of a new , compassionate and evidence-based mental health care .
Speaker 1While progress has been made , we must never forget the suffering endured by those who came before us . So what about psychiatry in Norway ? We don't have institutions like Lier anymore , but some of the bad attitudes that made these human being rights violations still exist today . The lack of nuances is visible in the debate and the perspective is often on young people struggling . The consequences of poverty , mental health violations and discrimination of people with severe problems seems to be unspoken issues in Norway . In my view , the mental health conversation before COVID was both too comfy and too stupid , and only based on feelings all people can have in life . After COVID it suddenly changed . A new perspective of mental health arised in the Norwegian media . It made it easier for me to talk openly about my problems , since I felt less shameful . That new focus made a huge difference and it actually made my mental health feel better . We don't have good enough systems and people with severe problems are not evolving .
Speaker 1One professor that is clear about this is Arne Holte . Arne Holte is a professor emeritus in health psychology in the University of Oslo . He has held various significant positions , including being an assistant director , director of mental health and division director at the Norwegian Institute of Public Health . His expertise spans clinical psychology , research and policy development related to mental health at several prestigious institutions , including the University of Rochester , ucla , george Washington University , university of New Mexico and San Diego State University . Within the European Union , he has been involved in expert groups related to mental health and well-being , child mental health in schools and mental health in all policies . Currently , arne Holte primarily works on population-based strategies to promote mental health and prevent mental disorders in Norway , both locally and nationally . His research focuses on effective population-based mental health intervention in child care centers and schools . He also advises international organizations on leveraging the crucial resource of population mental health in low-income countries .
Speaker 1He emphasizes that psychologists in Norway often lack the necessary competence to effectively address mental health challenges , particularly in terms of prevention . Holte has expressed concern about the limited focus on prevention , for the need for psychologists to take more leadership roles within mental health work . It's essential to recognize that improving mental health systems requires ongoing efforts , collaboration and focus on evidence-based practices . While progress has been made , there is still room for improvement in assuring that patients receive the best possible care within the Norwegian mental health system .
Speaker 1Another specialist that has been an advocate in the society is Jørgen Flor . He is a psychologist who highlights the need of constructive debate within the psychological community . He believes that ridicule and criticism hinder meaningful discussions . Fear of backlash often prevents professionals from expressing their opinions openly , both on social media and to journalists . Floor also emphasizes that ethical considerations extend beyond the therapy room . Psychologists must maintain ethical standards in all aspects of their works . His critical stance encourages reflection on professional conduct and accountability .
Speaker 1He also co-authored a book , skadelige Samtaler Myten om bivirkningsfri terapi , translated into Hurtful Conversations the Myths About Therapy Without Side Effects . This book delves into the paradoxical idea that psychological treatment and talk therapy intended to alleviate human suffering can sometimes have negative effects . It explores situations , contexts , therapists or moments where treatment inadvertently harms rather than helps . In other words , there are instances when it would have been better not to intervene at all . The authors critically examine the myth of side-effect-free therapy and propose steps toward fostering a culture of openness and ensuring safer mental health care . The book sheds light on the complexities of therapeutic interactions and encourages reflections on how well-intentioned interventions can sometimes backfire . If you're interested in understanding the nuances of psychological treatment and its potential pitfalls , this book provides valuable insight . Norway's mental health landscape is multifaceted , with dedicated professionals like Arne Holte and Jørgen Flor striving for positive change . By fostering dialogue , addressing ethical concerns and prioritizing mental well-being , norway can build a stronger , more compassionate psychiatric system .
Speaker 1We don't have the same problems with the lack of welfare system like Nepal , but we need to improve our system . Being a rich country doesn't mean that your country is perfect and that everyone is happy . Sometimes people in our country also struggle a lot in the system . Thanks to our long democratic traditions , we also are the country of organizing . I hope I gave you some new perspectives by talking about these issues in a Norwegian perspective , meeting the Nepali situation .
Speaker 1I know I come from a rich country and I know that my suffering is on a higher level due to all the safety nets in Norway , but my suffering also opened my eyes to the suffering of the people without that safety net , the people who have the same struggles , the same pain and the same lack of knowledge I had and the same lack of empathy I once had , and with no system to provide for them on a minimal level . I am sure I would have ended up in the streets myself . I lived in a country like that . That is why the Nepali people end up in the streets , you know , and the Norwegian people ? They end up in the hamster wheel , struggling with the welfare state on a daily basis . The hamster wheel is like a good image of how it is to struggle in a rich country
Preserving Values for Mental Health Awareness
Speaker 1.
Speaker 1You have all the material things , but you don't have the mental well-being and that is also important , not just the material things . We never stop loving our values who make equalities for all , and we never stop fighting for better systems , organizing and racing against inequality . That is the Norwegian history and our proud legacy . That is us , and we need these values to make better systems for people struggling with severe mental health problems , no matter where you live in this world . I hope I have encouraged you to raise mental health awareness in your country and , by the way , the music that I'm playing in the background is from Terin , or Harbridge , on Harbridge , and the music that I played in the background when I talked to you about Nepal and the organization Karshish was by the famous artist Adrian D Wan , and I will share their links in this episode in the text field of this episode . So thank you for listening to my podcast today also . Thank you . © BF-WATCH TV 2021 .