117. How Quiet Writers Can be Just as Effective as Loud Writers

In this week's episode, Suzy chats with Laura Aliese Miedema, Book Coach, about quiet writers. Learn what skills you already have as a quiet or introverted writer that will help you achieve success in your writing and publishing life. 

Resources Mentioned: 

Take the Quiet Strengths Quiz 

Schedule your free coffee chat with Laura here: https://lauraaliese.com/coffee/ 

30 Ways to Promote Your Book Podcast Episode #32

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 Intro and Outro Music is Daisy by Zight and used under a CC by 4.0 DEED Attribution 4.0 International license. For more music by Zight visit https://www.youtube.com/zight 

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Welcome to the Show, Don't Tell writing podcast with me, Suzy Vadori, where I peel back the layers of how to wow your readers with your fiction, your nonfiction. Anybody can bang out a first draft, but it takes a little more work to make your book as amazing as it can be. Join me as I share the step-by-step writing techniques you could apply to your writing right away as I host successful writers who share a behind-the-scenes look at their own writing lives and as I live coach writers on their pages, giving practical writing examples that will make your own writing stronger. Nobody is born knowing how to write an engaging book. There are real and important skills that you need to learn. On this show, I cut through the noise and get you all the info you need. I can't wait to see how this information is going to transform your writing I can't wait for you to meet Laura Elise Medema today. She is a quiet soul who loves to ponder the deep questions of life and writing. She's a dear friend of mine and a colleague that I discuss book coaching with all the time. She lives five-and-a-half-hour flight away from me, but we actually meet in person quite often as my family lives near her, and she will drive, and we will meet for coffee and talk about our businesses and our clients and just really geek out about book coaching and, and support one another. We are polar opposites in personality, but we are so similar in so many ways. This episode was such a joy to record with Laura because it really features her strengths, and you're gonna see what an amazing human she is. She offers lots of advice if you identify as a quiet writer or even if you are just a thoughtful writer. Whether you're quiet or not, there are tons and tons of tips here to sort of lean into your strengths and to use them in this episode. In her work as a certified book coach in memoir, nonfiction, and fiction, Laura enjoys slowing down to share deep conversation and a deep cup of coffee with writers from all walks of life. Yet there's a special place in her heart for quiet, reflective writers who think big thoughts and care deeply for what matters most. Laura serves writers wholeheartedly by being very thorough and by telling them the truth about their work and their infinite worth as human beings. She helps them focus, find their next steps, and move forward out of overwhelm and overload into thoughtful action. Her heartbeat is to see writers and their work as they truly are, a beautiful mystery with meaning and purpose worth thinking deeply about, treating with care, and empowering into quiet change-makers. If you're listening to the podcast and you wanna chat with Laura, she has generously offered a free hour-long coffee visit, and you can access that at lauraelise.com/coffee Welcome to the podcast, Laura. So good to have you here, and I'm looking forward to our annual time together when I'm on the East Coast in a couple of weeks. I'm so excited to be here, Suzy. Thank you for having me, and it's always a good time in Nova Scotia when two book coaches are together. Exactly, right? And I'm just so excited to have you because even though we're awesome colleagues and we share tons of things, we are very different, and I think it's really important for writers to hear how different writers can be as well. So thanks for coming on to talk about quiet writers. Thank you. I, I do- I just recently found out about hypersensitive or hypers- hypersensitive people as a- Hmm … type of person of an introvert, and I'm reading all the check boxes. I'm like, oh. That's amazing. Like- So okay, so talk about that for a second. What is a hypersensitive person? Person. Well, there's 27, like, characteristics, but basically, it's you, you deeply process things. You have a deep inner life. You have- you are almost, you react or are more sensitive to outside stimuli. You have a, a deep conscience. You, you just get sensitive to things just because you just take it in all so well. Uh, and you're just a soft, sensitive sort of person. So- L- I love that … I, I feel really, like I feel strongly about things. E- either negatively or positively because I s- I sense so well, right? And so as writers, as, as coaches, we, we all are more geared towards external stimuli or internal stimuli. For me, it's always been a, a rich inner world of just sort of B- because of that, it's a lot to process, right? So my brain gets tired real quick. So I need to have, like, a lot of quiet, a lot of tea, a lot of just, like, quiet. A lot of tea. I love that so much. I love how you're talking about this, Laura, and it sounds like you've probably gotten a lot out of finding this category to sort of appreciate why it is that you're great at what you do, that makes you so different and so special and so unique. Yes. I, at first, you know, whenever you learn something new about yourself, you're kind of like, "Oh, no. Is that me?" And then you kind of say, "Oh, yes, that is me. I'm excited to be me." And I find with my coaching, I tend to be very thorough, very thoughtful, and it's a superpower in its own way. But for some people, that's just not how they're wired, and that's okay. Everyone's wired a little differently. But for me, I think in detail and I think in emotion, and I just want to bring my best self, and everyone brings their best self in different ways. Mm. And so that's how I, how I bring it. It just made everything feel more like I wasn't, uh, abnormal or crazy. It was just like, this is me and it's okay to be quiet, introverted, and, and just sort of reflective all the time. I think it's a joy to be who you are and to find out who you are and how you work so that you can be the best writer you can. And I think a lot of quiet writers, especially because we live in a culture that doesn't really reward introversion as much as perhaps extroversion, it depends on the setting. A lot of introverted writers can get subtle messages from their parents or their teachers or maybe just their publishers. You know, different people that might say, you know, "Can you speak up? Can you tell me what you're really thinking? Can you just get out there in public, speak like nobody's business?" There's different pressures for different types of personalities, types, and it's not easy for anybody, not alone an extroverted writer or an introverted writer. But there's certain messaging that comes across in different ways to different writers, like you need a platform, which you do need a platform, but there's different ways to go about that can be conducive to, you know, sensitive people or quiet or introverted people. Absolutely, and I want to get to that. How do you promote books if this is you? Don't worry, we're gonna get to this, 'cause people do look at me and say, "But Suzy, I don't want to be out there." And we'll just address the elephant in the room. I am not introverted. That's why I'm having Laura on this podcast to talk to all of you. You know, I like to joke that I'm the only extroverted writer in the world. It's not true, but I am, like, very extroverted, and I'm gonna get to that in a second. But in terms of identifying, I love what you were saying about having a rich inner world because I think I have a lot of writers who come and want to write introverted characters. And sometimes how this shows up on their pages because of that messaging that you were talking about is you have characters with not a lot of agency or that are letting other people tell them what to do, and I'm saying, "No, no, your character still needs to decide." And they say, "Oh, but they're introverted. They wouldn't go out and, you know, order people around or do the things the way that you might do." Seriously, and I say, "Yes, but I have a lot of introverted people in my life. Um, I have two, two in my immediate family that live in my home, and I can tell you they are very strong. They have that s- rich inner world, and they are very strongly opinionated. They may not go around and take control, but they still have opinions." And the nice thing is in writing, we actually have inner thoughts. And so you can be right in your character's head. If you wanna write somebody who's like you, do it. Um, but make sure that that rich inner world, as Laura was talking about, exists. That's such a cool point. And back to that point about agency, like- Mm-hmm… not only do we make external choices normalizing something is a choice, too, and it's an inner thought choice, too. So it's interesting to think how interiority and, and the inner choices we make, but not that are not even outside of ourselves, can be agency as well. So it's just really interesting. Yeah, absolutely. So okay. So we've talked a little bit about your superpower and the, the super sensitive and also introversion. Is that what you mean by quiet writers, or is there more to that definition, or is that pretty much it? That's a great question. So often quiet writers to me feel like they're thoughtful and just introspective. Doesn't necessarily have to be introverted, but it tends to show up in the same sort of set of data a little bit. But I like to help people who think deeply about big things and who care deeply. So it doesn't necessarily mean you have to be introverted, but it tends to be the people that flock to me is because they see somebody who gets them. Yeah, and what attracts- I love helping thoughtful people. Yeah, and that's what I was gonna say is what actually attracts you to that population as well. Not just that people find you,'cause that's true, but you also love working with them as well. I love working with them because they're just like the salt of the earth. The people that will just … Not to say that they're the only people who are the salt of the earth, but I feel like they are so humble. They don't, they don't, they don't assume, but they also love deeply, and they want to get their work out there, but they struggle. I have sympathy for the struggle to get outside of yourself, to be an introvert in an extroverted world. And as a side note, I've struggled with mental health in the past, and have had struggle to, with anxiety and, and doing things in public that would be, everyone else would find no problem at all. But it takes some, some determination to do that sort of thing, right? And so I s- I empathize with the struggle to put yourself out there. I do that myself. I do podcasts and speaking engagements and all those things. You're here. I'm here. But I just, I feel for these sort of people who have so much to offer, just doesn't get seen as often. So I feel a little bit of if only their light could be sh- seen a little bit more, what a bright world this would be, right? Yeah, and I think writing is almost the perfect medium for that, because we can sort of hi- not hide behind the pen, but the pen can be a way that you don't need to be out putting your physical person out there. Right. Do you find, like what is it that attracts introverts to writing?'Cause there's, it's a huge amount of the population I would agree. I think it's that processing that comes through writing. Like, they get to sift through their emotions and what they're thinking and what they're doing. They get to plan. It's that internal working with the data and, and the thoughts and the, that you get to experience the story before you get to write it. So it's like a, a rich experience even before you get to being in public with it. So for me, I- one of my Clifton strength is intellectual, which is just thinking, and so I just love to think. You know that statue of the thinker? It's like, it's like me, right? But anyway, everybody has their strengths, and a lot of writers that are introverted can just sense that inner world more strongly, so they can kind of visualize it and verbalize it better in some ways. So writing is such a inner experience that I think introverts really value that, and then they get that in spades with writing. I get to also help a lot of memoir writers and, and for them, it, the, the processing brings back just not just like a story, but also like life lessons, and so it means so much to do that on a personal level too, so. Yeah, absolutely. And I think you're right. You know, a lot of spaces in our current world are designed or reward extroversion over introversion. This is not one of them, and so it- it's been interesting to be a minority in the writing world because sometimes I know that I don't belong, or I'm different. And I was actually called out at a … It was interesting. I had to, like, was forced to kind of confront it. I was at a conference 10, about 10 years ago that I was helping organize, and we had a guest, Brandon Mull, who is the author of the Fablehaven series. Oh, yeah, I wish you could see Laura's face 'cause she's like, "I know Brandon Mull, who that is," right? So I had the opportunity because I was on the organizing committee to spend some time with him, and he was eating breakfast alone, and he waved me over and wanted to talk to me. He's like, "I … Suzy, I just have a question for you." I was like, "Okay, Brandon Mull. What do you wanna know," right? Like, anything. And he's like, "Sit down. Sit down. Okay. So I've been watching you all weekend, and I'm confused. What are you doing here? Like, you're clearly extroverted. Like, I don't understand what you even …" Like, he said it in a nice way. Laura's horrified that I was confronted this way. It was actually great. He's hilarious. He's like, "I know. I'd like It's a genuine question. I don't understand why you would want to be a writer if you have all these other things." He's like, "For me, it's how I express," you know, like he said some other things and shared some things about what it was like to be in his brain, which was really cool. And I said something that usually extroverts wouldn't say, which is, "I don't know. I gotta get back to you." And I thought about it for about 24 hours, and then I came back to him at breakfast the next day. I'm like, "I actually know the answer." And he's like, "Do tell, do tell," right? So I sat down. The answer for me, 'cause I had to think about it, right? Like, we understand how it appeals to lots of people, but for me, like I learned, you know, whatever those messages are. Laura was talking about the messages that we get from humanity, from our teachers, from our parents about being too quiet. Well, I got the opposite, right?"You're too loud. You're too this. You're too much," right? Whatever that is. But I know, like, that nobody in my family, nobody in my circle, my friends, my colleagues, nobody wants to absorb all of this, what I've got to say, right? So I gotta put it somewhere, and I put it into writing. Because I can't, right? Like, nobody can actually… I'm very self-aware. Nobody can actually absorb everything that I want to communicate. It's not possible. So yeah, so that's the reason that he laughed, and he's like, "That is a really great reason." And then we had breakfast. That is a good reason. Yeah. But conversely, right? It's good for both sides. Yeah. It's good. And I, and I never wanna be, oh, introverts are the only good people, right? There's no good or bad. It's just, it's just how you're wired. And Suzy, I, I think another thing that's a great thing about you is you're so thoughtful. Even though you're an extrovert, you are so thoughtful. And it doesn't necessarily… Thoughtfulness doesn't tie to one or the other. It's just your heart, right? And so I'm just- And when you were talking about intellect and, like, like, wanting to- Yeah … think a lot, that's me. I just express it- Yeah … in a different way. And actually, Laura, you have created a quiz, which I took. And so this is great, because I was like, "Wait, is this gonna tell me I'm introverted?" And it didn't. It wasn't what it was for. But yeah, I actually had a lot of the traits on your quiet writer list- That's interesting … which, which isn't surprising, because I'm a writer. But, uh- Yeah … but talk about the quiz and how you put it together, and what does it mean?'Cause we're also gonna drop a link in the show notes. So if you're wondering if you're a quiet writer, this is one of the ways that you can sorta test yourself to see where you fit. So I made a quiz called Find Your Quiet Strengths, and it's basically based on the premise that a book by one of the coaching books for our certification that we did, Suzy and I did, was the Essential Guide to Getting Your Book Published. And I'm going in a deep dive here a little bit, but bear with me. Um, so there's- Do it. Our- we love deep dives. All right. So there's, there's four successful publishing principles. If you do these four things, you're in good, you're in good company; researching, networking, writing, and persevering. And if you do f- those four things, you're in good company, you're doing well. But a lot of quiet writers don't know that what they offer helps … Just like extroverts have things that help them in those categories, introverts do, too. And I wanted to, like, convince people that you have what it takes to do what you need to do, because I feel like a lot of introverts are needlessly embarrassed about their personality when, and even extroverts can be, too, but I think everybody has something to offer. And I wanted to show that you can have those strengths, and not only have those strengths, but, like, how it, does it impact your publishing chances and how you can use it for your career. So that's kind of what the quiz is about. Yeah. So you basically- It's so cool You basically pick your strengths, and then if you go to the results page, it'll show you how those strengths weave into a successful publishing career. And they love that. And, and you know, in a lot of ways we teach such similar things. This is why we work really well together and we talk about our businesses a lot, because we're both really interested in designing a writing world and a writing life that suits the individual, right? And plays to their own strengths. Because you're right, anybody can be a writer. I, I gotta say, I have one neighbor who at one point when they first started writing books, she said, "Okay, I'm gonna sit down and write a book also at the same time." And lots of people say this, right? But she meant it as a joke, and her joke was, and I know she's not listening to this podcast 'cause she never wrote the book, but she said, "I'm gonna write and I'm gonna try my hardest, and every time you get discouraged and you wanna know, I'm gonna pull out my chicken scratch and show you how bad my book is, and you're gonna feel great. That's what I'm gonna do for you." She didn't do it. But most people, you know, there's a lot of people in this world that want to do it but think that it's hard for whatever reason. And one of those strengths that I did have when I went through the quiz was being able to work on my own on something for very long periods of time. That is something I can do. But there's lots of people who struggle with that, too, and you can still be a writer even if you can't do that, right? Yes. There's ways around the, there's so many individual paths to take, and I think writers do themselves a disservice if they think it just should be done one way. But writing, I've heard this said in a book, that writing can be a stroll, a hike, a sprint, a marathon. Like, you can choose the pace of writing you take, and your goal, depending on how you're wired and how you go about things. It's, it's such a unique a- thing. And I also find that when I work with writers, I try to find that unique thing about them that only they have and that only they can bring to the world. And it could be their introversion, it could be something else. But that unique secret sauce of whatever that person is and it- I know you do this too, Suzy. You, you, you take the coaching and help let them- that come out in what they're doing. And that's your market advantage, is who you are and what you bring, right? And if you can tap into why you're unique and what makes you, quote-unquote,"weird," and what, quote-unquote,"makes you different," and celebrate that, you can go far, right? So- Yeah. I totally agree. And the most popular question I get today is, "Well, how is- isn't AI gonna get rid of writing?" And, and the reason it won't is because AI is never unique. It's never weird. It's never any of those things. All it does is kind of, it can only look backward. It's like this giant database. I used to work in technology, we called them potato races. Anyways, it's this giant potato base of stuff that happened in the past, right? That somebody else has written, and then it looks for the lowest common denominator. What were the most common things? And it comes up with all these cliches and generalist everything. It can't create. And so what happens is, when I read something that's been AI written, I'm not somebody who's like, "Oh, there's too many em dashes," or there's this or there's that. I mean, that one might make it obvious also, especially if they're really overused. But the biggest flag for me is if I'm reading something and it's boring. Mm-hmm. And people are like, "Can you help me edit this?" I'm like, "What? You mean you want me to actually write it for you? Like, put the soul into it? Put my personality and my ideas into it? No. Like, you go do that," right? So yeah, I think that's- I love how you put that. Everybody has something unique. Everybody has something weird, unless you're an AI bot. I'm not. I'm not either. Nobody could be this weird. Nobody could be this weird. Nobody could be this weird. Okay. So we talked a little bit about the barriers that they face and sort of that negative spin that we put on it. And we talked a little bit about the superpower that you can have as well, being a quiet writer. And, and if you're wondering if you have those superpowers, definitely go take the quiz. But how do you hope that calling this out or helping writers see that they fit into this category is going to help them see what they're capable of? How does that work? It's a good question because a lot of people think of quiet as not capable or not strong, and that's why the quiz is called Quiet Strengths because it's kind of counterintuitive. But if you think of like water, water is, is strong, but it's not solid as much as, say, concrete. But water over time can just pick away at stuff and make it in this strong and different sense that than concrete is, right? And so I think of it as a different type of strength, but it, it's super amazing when you actually tap into it. When I think of… So sometimes I don't always say quiet, I say thoughtful because I think that can resonate sometimes more. But when I say quiet, I don't mean like silent. I mean reserved, but also still forceful. Because I think you can't be totally silent and make an impact. I think you need to speak up, but at your own tone of voice and your own sort of resonance. And I think a lot of writers that, that fit into this quiet/thoughtful kind of space feel like they have to shout, like they have to just sort of lose their cool and be extroverted all the time and just sort of And to sort of not be themselves. And I think the best strength you can bring is yourself. Like we talked about, that unique uniqueness. And so if you can tap into that, that's where the strength comes from because you'll actually sustain what you're doing. I find if you're an introvert trying to be an extrovert or the opposite, you're trying to do something that doesn't fit, and that's not sustainable long-term for a career. So I think the strength comes from integrity of who you are, like the integrity of what you're doing, and that goes forward in all these hard situations that all writers face themselves. Like, it's, it's hard to write a book, but you can learn how to do it, and you can, you can do it. It just takes being true to yourself to actually get through that, that challenge. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, that it really resonated with me what you said just now. Writers feel like they have to shout, and that's why I said this at the beginning of the podcast. It's like, I get this all the time. Okay, so we write the book, and then there's this whole other thing, which is basically if you've written a book, in all likelihood, you felt called to start a conversation with the world. There's a reason why you're working on this thing, 'cause it's hard, and working with a book coach can make it easier, for sure. But writing a book is a challenge. It's probably one of the most difficult things you're gonna do in life, and I'm saying that having run companies and raised three children. I've done, like, I mean, I've done a lot in my life, and writing a book is definitely w- up there in terms of one of the most difficult challenges. But once you get it out into the world, there's this whole other shift where now even if you're writing other books, you're also promoting your book. And, uh, what is that-- What are the challenges that introverts or quiet writers or thoughtful writers face because they think it looks like the way it might look like to me? And I think this is where the biggest opportunity for learning or for growth is in this industry, is showing how you can do that differently Yes. So one of the biggest things I find that I help introverted writers with is finding, helping with their marketing, helping them to find ways that they can be themselves, uh, like you said, promoting their book in a way that feels natural to them. And I just, in the s- the quiet strengths quiz, you'll see that things like being loyal to others and being genuine and following up on what you do, like if you can be reliable, you can go so far in what you, what you do with people, right? Because people instinctively need somebody they can count on if they're gonna interact business-wise with you. And that's not unique to introverts, but there is a strength in t-taking information in well and processing and keeping track of details and all those sorts of things. But I find with my own marketing, you know, I have to do this too as a coach, and I'm not gonna lie, it took me a little more time to get my feet underneath me and get comfortable in the water. But I really enjoy it because it means I get to show up and get to be with people and, and to care in a way that I can't from my own house just being by myself. I get to interact with really interesting, exciting people like yourself, Suzy, and have interesting conversations. But it takes a little push and shove to do it. So I take time after these things to, you know, self-care, sit with some tea, quiet, have a book, all these things. But I can still make that time to go out into the world and do my thing. But if I have time, I make time to, to come back and regroup, right? Like everyone else needs to. So it's just having a plan that, that you can have for self-care, and I love that pl- idea of a plan, 'cause I'm a thinker and I love to have a plan. I don't know about you, but I have, like, five-year plan- Oh, absolutely. I was an operations professional before I became a book coach. I'm always planning, Laura, always planning Yeah. You're right. So, and, and for me, it gives, it helps give a lot of quiet writers the security they know to figure out the ideas before they engage with the external stimuli. So it's like kind of having a game plan, trying things bit by bit, making yourself comfortable, and going for it. And so I use- Mm-hmm … a lot of exercises to help people think about it first before they actually do it, and then to actually hold them accountable to doing it. Um- Yeah, absolutely. In marketing in particular, I like to encourage writers to find one thing, not I have this, we can link to the episode, we've got an episode on 30 ways to promote your book, but, and a, and a PDF that follows it. But, but the thing is, is that you've got to pick something that resonates with you, and there are things in there that are quiet strengths, like write for magazines, which I did two this week, right? Like, there are things that are writing related. There are things that are quiet related. There are things like, you know, if you really wanted to learn how to do ads on, you know, f- meta ads for your book, or Amazon ads, or whatever that is. There, there's lots of things that don't require you to be front-facing. But if you do choose something that's front-facing to push yourself or to challenge yourself or because you know that you're good at it even if you hate it, pick one thing, please. Don't do all 30 things on that list, and just show up consistently. And like Laura said, give yourself lots of time to recover. And- I practice that as well. There was many, many years when all I did for my book coaching business was my newsletter, and we have 12,000 people, writers on that newsletter now. And it was, you know, a lot of years before I was able to, even though I knew I would love doing a podcast and all the things, I knew that I didn't have time until I had the team to help me. And now that we're doing the podcast and doing it, this is the third go-around at a podcast, by the way. Not everything comes easily. I did two other podcasts. You can find them out there. There's a YouTube channel and a podcast. You know, I wasn't, I was kind of, didn't have the energy to do it consistently. And now we've been doing it, it's two years I think last week that we've done- Congratulations … yeah, we've done at least one episode every single week for two years, and we have a system now where I can manage that. And I can do it, and I get to meet cool people like Laura, and all of you writers out there listening, thank you so much for your support. But it's finally growing because I can show up for it in a way that I couldn't do with those other versions of this podcast. So yeah, whatever it is, make sure you're looking after yourself, and don't just, you know, spray and pray and try it all, because you will. You'll burn out, and you won't make any impact. And there's lots of ways that you can do things without having to be out there, definitely. I agree. And one quiet writer I work with who's, who is literally one of the sweetest people ever, she makes helpful comments, like, on pe- other people's social media. Even just networking that way, drawing people to interact with you. Her comments are always thoughtful, and so, take, she takes time over each one. And it's something simple. I know even thank you notes as a strategy for marketing, to give thank you notes to whoever you do book launches or speaking engagements. Thank you notes are so, can be so thoughtful, and it doesn't take much time. And so there's lots of interesting ways you can use your, your personality to help you be your best at a marketing. I love your ideas, Suzy. Yeah. One of my colleagues actually … And again, pick one thing, do it well. One of my colleagues who used to write romance and now writes mysteries, Tina Holmes, started out by everybody on her mailing list got a postcard every single year on their birthday. And it got out of control, because it's actually really expensive to send a postcard, but she did that, physically sent them from her travels and everything else, and built, like, this massive empire, and sold, like, millions of copies of her books that way. And then she had to stop doing it. So. Oh. But then it became outrageous. Start small with something that you can just do consistently. That's what I, I was just thinking of your thank you notes. Yes. If that's your thing, then that's your thing, right? Like, sending gifts or sending … And again, it doesn't have to be that. You can just even send an email, a thank you email- Yeah … or a connection, right? There's lots of things that you can do. People are out there wanting to support you, but they need to know you first. I 100%, when I come home from a conference, the people that I most enjoy talking to, I buy their book. I might listen to it on the plane ride home. I do a lot of audiobooks these days, mainly to save my eyes, because I do so much editing. I'm like, if there's something available, especially if the author read it, I'm like, yes, I wanna hear them read it. I want them to tell me their story. I think that's such a treat. And by the way, if anybody out there is gonna give me shade for listening to audiobooks, I can tell you that the brain science behind it has proven that listening to an audiobook is the exact same brain wave experience as reading a book. So, there you go. It's still in there- There you go … in my brain. I still experienced it. I still read it. Any comment on that, Barbara? Yeah, me too. I read au- I read audiobooks too, so we're all- Yeah … together. There you go. Read audiobooks. Listen to, read, I don't know. I don't know what the right, what the right terminology is. Okay. So I love that you've turned quiet writing into your business as well, and working with quiet writers, right? Like, it's a, it's an interest, but you've also niched down. I mean, not that you wouldn't work with somebody who wasn't- Yeah… quiet. You probably wouldn't work with somebody who wasn't thoughtful, I would imagine. But how does this suit you personally in terms of, uh, you know, picking this niche and going after it? How has it been? It's been really fun. As you said, I've been in- I've been discovering things about myself as I dig into what quiet people are like and, and what best serves them. I was hesitant to niche a bit because I love working… A- as a quiet person, I love everybody, I wanna help everybody. I don't wanna please everybody. I wanna just, uh, do that. But I find I best, I can best, like you said, find those one or two ways you can show up that help others. Um, for me, I felt I gave the most, I could relate the most, and I could see the way forward for those folks easier or more clearly. For those who are struggling with marketing or just with the querying process and having a thinner skin, like, that's a difficult place to be, where you're sending 100 or, of query letters, and you're getting rejections back, and you feel things deeply. Like, that's a real pain point. Um, so I can- Yeah … I f- I know what that's like. I know that feeling of being like, the tension in your body, the overwhelm. So I feel like I can speak to that maybe with, with more empathy, and it can help that way. So for me, it's been uncovering what's unique about me and how I can be of best service, so it's been a journey in itself. Even just knowing, I do lots of genres, and knowing which genres Appeal to thoughtful, quiet people has been, like, mind-blowing to me too, right? And so it's been a journey of discovery, and I'm very grateful. What are those? I mean, you could talk about, uh, we'll have it in the show notes, and then the, it was in the, uh, introduction. But what are those genres that- So I think- … thoughtful writers are drawn to in general? Well, I would say more introverted and reflective in this, in this case. But I think any genre can bring intro- intellection into, into space. But, like, memoir has been especially one where people are reflecting on their life and bringing in that reflective piece. Or essays or articles on thought, big thoughts, big ideas. Literary fiction, upmarket fiction. I tend to work with poetry, short stories. You know, those, those big ideas, sort of thoughtful pieces of using, using your brain power to kind of have, take big social ideas, big political ideas, big religious ideas, interweaving them thoughtfully into work that is … I tend to work … I heard, in this discovery process, I've heard of what's called quiet activism, which I had not heard of before, and it's basically being a quiet activist in different ways. And so I just saw different opportunities for quiet activism that many people might like to do in these genres that take big ideas. Like upmarket fiction usually has a hook of some kind, but a big idea that, that takes it more in lit- in a literary kind of bent. And so I just like that kind of mixing and thinking of deep things. And anyway, as you can tell, I'm getting excited about it, but- Yeah. Hey, that's the beauty. By the way, Laura and I have the best job on the planet. We both do it- Amen … very different ways. But the best part about it is we get to think for most of our days, and yeah. Or that's the best part for me, and it looks like Laura's getting- I like it, yeah pretty excited about it too. Okay. All right. What is your best advice for people who now, having listened to this, identify as a quiet writer and wondering if they should write a book? What's your best advice? Best advice is to think about it. I love that. Is to think about it because a lot of people want to write a book, but not a lot of people have the plan to get through to finish. So work with someone like Suzy, work with someone who can give you a plan to go forward. Because I do think a lot of books die on the vine for lack of a plan and a lack of a way to make it come out in fruition to actually do it. So I think you have, as a quiet writer, you can think about how you want to do it and when you're gonna do it, but you can't stop at thinking. You have to actually state the first step. Because often that first step is where we get out of our heads and into our readers' hearts, how we actually express ourselves and get out there, right? So it- I often say you can think and you can start with thinking, but you have to move to action at some point, and you might need someone to help you do that, and so you can look into help for that. Yeah, absolutely. And if you identify as a quiet writer or if you don't, and you loved listening to Laura today, so thoughtful, so kind, one of my favorite colleagues, and wanna find her, where can we find you, Laura? Where can we follow you? Where can we subscribe to your Substack, all of that? So that's a great question. I'm still getting out to the places, but I'm in Substack under The Quiet Writing Life, which is@thequietwritinglife, and I'm on Facebook, and my website is lauraaliese.com. So my- that's my middle name, Aliese, A-L-I-E-S-E. Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on today, Laura. This has been an absolute dream. I can't wait to see you in person soon when I travel across the country to have coffee with you. Thank you so much, Suzy. Thanks for tuning into the Show, Don't Tell writing podcast with me, Suzy Vadori. It is my absolute honor to bring you the straight goods for that book you're writing or the book that you're planning to write. Please help me keep the podcast going by helping people find us. You can subscribe to the podcast and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you're listening to show how much you enjoy the show. That's how other listeners will find us. Also, visit Suzyvadori.com/newsletter to hop on my weekly inspired writing newsletter list, where you'll stay inspired and be the first to know about all the upcoming training events and writing courses that happen in my community. Want my eyes on your writing? Submit a page of your current draft for a chance to come on the podcast at the link in the show notes. I'd love to chat with you about your writing in my always positive, incredibly supportive way so that you can make great strides towards your writing goals. I'm here to cheer you on. Remember, that book you're writing is gonna open doors that you haven't even thought of yet, and I can't wait to help you make that it the absolute best it can be. See you again right here next week