Hello and welcome to the Erin Patterson podcast, a show about a tragic family lunch of beef, wellington and mushrooms. I'm Lisa Tate and I'm a journalist who has been recording true crime podcasts since 2019. And on the line today I have my true crime BFF Daniel, and we were both in the same Facebook group as Erin Patterson. Hi Daniel, hi Lisa, I'm very upset you don't have your Gucci tracksuit on.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I put my Madonna t-shirt on for you anyway.
Speaker 1:Yes, you saw Madonna. What two weeks ago?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exciting? Not even maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was fun, so we had a connection with Erin between 2018 and 2020.
Speaker 2:Yes, so the documentary that we were following Exposed the Case of Kelly Lane came out in 2018. And I think we both joined the same Facebook group. It was an offshoot of the ABC documentary, so Erin was in that group as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, and we kind of kept in contact for quite a long period of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was years, yeah, so I remember there was a podcast being made because the ABC documentary just seemed to glaze over quite a few details and so once we deep dived into the Kelly Lane case, we realized it wasn't the whole truth. So we started chatting in that big group and then I became an admin and our mutual friend became an admin, and then we both got booted out, not sure why, probably because we weren't on the Kelly is innocent side, but we started. Then. We started our own group, which was much smaller, and there was, yeah, a whole bunch of us that became friends, basically, and we were doing research for a podcast about Kelly Lane.
Speaker 1:Yes, and originally it was called Problem Child. Yes, that's correct. Yeah, but then it changed its name.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's not available anymore, but we were doing research. There was too much that went on in the group.
Speaker 1:Yes, and there was also a high amount of drama in the group.
Speaker 2:Oh God, yes, yeah, there sure was, we had. How many do you reckon there were in the group towards the end? Like 50 of us, maybe?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I thought yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there was about 50 of us. We kept there were a lot of fake profiles in that group too, people with multiple accounts and so forth, and I remember there was such high drama and then it all kind of imploded. I think it must've been around the time of COVID, maybe 2020.
Speaker 1:It was. It was January 2020.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it imploded, the group imploded. I was admin of the group at that time and I actually ended up handing the podcast oh sorry, the group over to Erin, which is interesting because Erin then was sort of in the crosshairs of people who wanted the group deleted and those who wanted it to stay.
Speaker 1:And I've got some and we'll get into those in a moment later on where she actually says to me I'm just stuck in the middle, I don't know what to do, I've got everyone going off at me, so I told you high drama.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was high drama. She kept inviting me back to the group. I went back a couple of times. One of the last messages I got from Erin was hi, daniel, what the hell you left again. And that was sort of where it was left. I didn't realise we were still Facebook friends because she deactivated that account.
Speaker 1:I didn't either. I was still Facebook friends with her too, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so she reactivated it around the time that Simon got sick.
Speaker 1:And I remember because I was Simon's her husband. Yep, yes.
Speaker 2:So I remember, because I thought we weren't friends anymore and we hadn't talked in a while, and so I think this was in 2021. And I remember because I was in Melbourne at the time and I saw it pop up and it was just describing his hospital stay and you know how. They didn't know what was going on and that kind of thing and I thought why am I still friends with her? So I think I must have at that time, either deleted or blocked her.
Speaker 1:Okay, right, so, yeah, well, there's a lot we can talk about today, about that. That's just the introduction, and I'm quickly going to just talk about the article the Herald Sun had today concerning Erin.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:And it is a huge spread that they've got to promote their podcast and they're talking about her Erin's digital footprint, in particular on Facebook and according to this article it's understood detectives are particularly interested. That's the phrase in Ms Patterson's Facebook usage. The Sunday Herald Sun has been told Ms Patterson allegedly created several profiles under different names. It's believed she never claimed to be anyone other than herself while chatting to friends in Facebook groups.
Speaker 2:Well, we were dealing with her. Yeah, she did have multiple Facebook accounts. I don't remember if we ever questioned it.
Speaker 1:A lot of people did in that group.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they did and they still do. So we I know you and I we cut a lot of those people off, but because it just got so toxic at the end. But it was a very strange dynamic. It was you know, people from all walks of life. They, yeah, there were fake profiles. There was, you know, young people, old people, all sorts of people in that group, and I think it was an extreme case of you know a true crime group. That got out of hand pretty much.
Speaker 1:Yes, and Erin was known to delete her accounts and start new ones sporadically, said the Herald Sun, and they're also looking at her Google searches. But that's kind of like we know that. You know that happens all the time. It's one of the first things they do. I'd imagine I'm not a police officer, but you can get so much data. Even if you've deleted them, you can still get it back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and actually I remember back in October I think. I think she was arrested in October November the 3rd. November, was it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that at that point there was a lot of chats that I was in from years ago and everyone just started deleting all their information, like all their, all their chats between each other and all that kind of stuff. I could see everything just being deleted, deleted, deleted all in an instant, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then someone got on and called everyone bedwetters. Yes, yeah, correct so that kind of gives you an idea of the tone once everyone gets together.
Speaker 2:Yes, but I think it was a bit silly, to be honest, because you know there was a lot of information in those chats and what are they hiding? What are they hiding in those chats that they didn't want the police to see or people to see?
Speaker 1:And we're not talking about Erin there. We're talking about these other people.
Speaker 2:Yeah correct.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why did I delete it? I saw someone delete it and then I thought, well, look, maybe that's a good idea. If someone is already doing it, perhaps I should do it. But I mean, there's not anything in there that was of particular substance, but you'll hear about this in a moment. It certainly did give you an idea of who we were in the group and what the dynamics were.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Remember Windchime Gate.
Speaker 1:Yes, I was just about to say that there's a discussion there between Erin and I about buying someone some wind chimes, and I was organising a necklace, if you remember.
Speaker 2:Yes yeah, I do.
Speaker 1:That's how tight the group was, that we used to buy sympathy presents for people and Erin went a long way out of her way to go and get these wooden wind chimes and someone's name was engraved on them. And then someone made a like smart-ass comment about wind chimes being loud. And then someone made a like smart-ass comment about wind chimes being loud, and I'll have this on my website, erinpattersoncom. Poor Erin, like, was really really upset and anxious about that. So the group was addressed about that a few days later. But, yes, I will show you all my screenshots from that period in time. I don't know why you guys got me to do it, though, because I'm the one with the ADHD, but anyway. But Erin is really organised, I'm not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she is organised. She was organised as far as we knew. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, this is from our perspective of what we knew. Okay, and Ms Patterson has denied the accusations about the lunch, but she also has the right to a fair trial and the presumption of innocence.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:So, daniel, why don't we divulge here what we can about Erin, keeping in mind the ongoing legal matter in Victoria, where our words must tread lightly so as not to sway any potential jurors?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so from what I remember, like I had a lot of personal chats with Erin and she came across it like she didn't have a lot of friends from what I gathered, so she was a bit of a loner. When the group kind of imploded, I think she took it really personally. She was very upset about it.
Speaker 1:A lot of people were really upset about it.
Speaker 2:Because the group sort of became. It became more than just about researching for this podcast and Kelly Lane. It became more about the friendships within the group, I guess, and everyone started. You know, people started uploading videos and talking about their lives and that kind of thing in between doing the research.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. Well, I remember at the time I was really sick. I had a terribly sore back. If anyone knows about sciatica it's terrible. But I remember at that time there were people there like Erin would admit she was very, very introverted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she would. She would admit that yes, so it was. Yeah, her whole life was about her children and the house. Pretty much that was it.
Speaker 1:And Lego and books. Yeah, books are an extremely big part of her family because her mother was a literature doctor at a university here children's literature yeah, books are an extremely big part of her family because her mother was a literature doctor at a university, here children's literature yeah. Now, one thing I found out is Erin liked to travel with her husband estranged husband now Simon and did you know? He's an amateur photographer who had a travel blog which also chronicled parts of their lives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't realise that. I found that I think it was when her name started being in the media and someone found that blog, but I didn't know it at the time. I don't think I ever really asked her much about her life. To be honest. All I knew was she had the kids and her husband was away a lot and she had a lot of housework and she had some gripes about that, but that's pretty much all I knew. Everything else was sort of jokey, jokey, fun, fun. You know a meme here, a meme there, that type of thing.
Speaker 1:Okay, yes, because Simon has travelled extensively. There are photos of him and his dad in Russia and they did it the hard way, so like trains in China. But yeah, he's been to Africa. He's been to one country in Africa four times. Wow.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:He's a big fan of, you know, camping under the stars. And in fact, they moved to Western Australia in about 2011. And in 2013, they came back and they drove across Australia to start the new phase of their lives, and what he said was, quote driving 1,350 kilometres along a corrugated sandy track through the Australian desert is not the usual way for a family to move home across Australia, especially when it is a four-year-old child travelling with his mum and dad, even more so when the route goes past old nuclear bomb test sites which continue to be active today. That's interesting.
Speaker 2:Wow Okay.
Speaker 1:So they drove quote the Anne Beadle Highway, and it's a bush track that crosses the Great Victoria Desert in central Australia, 2013,. As we moved house from southwest to southeast Australia, our household possessions followed, transported in containers by rail. So they had a second-hand bookstore bookstore in WA, in Pemberton, and the business was called Curry Books. Yeah, I did read that as well and, as I said before, books are a huge thing in Erin's family. Her mum, who died in 2019, as I said, was an academic, but Erin shared with us photos of her cleaning out a station wagon full of books after her mum died.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was full of books. Yeah, so at the time she was moving house, I guess, and yeah, the car was just full of books.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a station wagon, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:the back of a station wagon, it was yeah.
Speaker 1:She spent a lot of time, do you remember, in the group. She was going to Eden to get the house ready for sale.
Speaker 2:I don't remember that, no.
Speaker 1:Oh, I do. It strikes me because I was like, wow, you're spending a lot of time there, it must be a big job. I didn't have any idea what the house was like or anything. We weren't sent a link for the sale, at least in my group, because there were subgroups as well.
Speaker 2:And I didn't know it was yeah, yeah, there was subgroups and and chats and all that kind of stuff. So you know, I had multiple chats which a lot of them have been deleted now, which just has my name there and and the other person's been removed, but I still do still have a few chats with Erin yeah, so the two had undergone seven bouts of IVF before they had their son, a boy, and then later a girl, and they were very much wanted.
Speaker 1:And, erin, did she say to you something about a geriatric pregnancy?
Speaker 2:She did. Yeah, she said a geriatric pregnancy, which, from memory, isn't a geriatric pregnancy. Anyone that's over 38, is it?
Speaker 1:Or 35, maybe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something like that. Yeah, but she did. She said she had a geriatric pregnancy.
Speaker 1:yes, so she's had two kids and it must be very difficult for these children. Our hearts go out to them. Well, two things can be true at the same time. You know I have a right to tell my story, just as you do. And yeah, the kids, you know I just they're with Simon now and I hope that they're okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do too. Really hope they're okay. It's funny. Actually, I remember from I was a bit shocked when they named Erin. We'd worked out it was Erin before she was named, but I was shocked at what she looked like, to be honest, because everything on her profile was her children and the only photos we had or had seen of her were of when she'd pretty much just given birth to the children, so she was a lot younger.
Speaker 1:I'll put a link in the show notes to those photos, because they're on my website, erinpattersoncomau. Yes, that's true. It was sort of like that's a name from the past, you know, when we heard about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I've got the emails from when we first heard about it and we were just like hold on, no, no. And each day as it went on it became more confounding for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we worked it out because of her age and because of the ages of the children. And then finally the Patterson name was released, I think, and we worked out. We were more like, yeah, it's definitely her.
Speaker 1:Yes, because we're not implying in any way that she deliberately poisoned her relatives with the beef, wellington and mushrooms and, as I said before, she has the presumption of innocence. But okay, so during the week Websliff's forum I was referred to a post where they said I was a journalist who says she knows Erin. So it's kind of our, we have to prove it. I'm not expecting anyone to just accept it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean we've got screenshots, we've got messages, we've got. You know, You'll find them on the website.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's a whole page devoted to it up the top there, so you can find it. Yes, there's a whole page devoted to it up the top there, so you can find it. Boy, did that go on, though. As I said, she went out of her way to a garden centre to pick them out, and she also got them engraved on the back, bloody ugly. You thought they were ugly, did you? Bouquet of flowers.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Remember they sat on the fence like they were some kind of security guard they were there for days they were on the news every day. Because Erin didn't want to go outside, and I do not blame her and they're a beautiful bloom of flowers, but eventually she would have got them. But I remember at the time thinking that's an interesting choice, but it wasn't wind chimes that they sent. You wouldn't do that, would you?
Speaker 2:No, no, I guess not no, but but yeah, it was. It was strange, we knew exactly who they were from yeah, I've had it confirmed as well, I knew so you have yeah, so these people and they're not Erin Patterson, but they were conveying a clear directive step back on the podcast.
Speaker 1:So that's a red rag to a bull, and this is on my website as well. Someone came to me and said hi, just wondering why you would take our private group and put Erin in a podcast. Everyone is rallying around her. And I said, well, I'm not going to tell you anything if you're coming to me accusing me of things and because I often test ideas and I was talking to a journalist on Twitter about she'd brought up someone needs to do a podcast on this. And I said, well, that's interesting, because I'm thinking of doing one and that kind of set the cat amongst the pigeons.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny that group leaks like a sieve. So we've found out a lot of information that we can't share right now because of justice yeah, the court case. So maybe, maybe we'll reconvene lisa after the, after the, whether she goes to trial or not yes, I agree with her.
Speaker 1:So I think some people took it upon themselves to sort of be guardians of erin and I mean, that's fine, they can do that. But, as I said in my previous episode, I don't tell you what to do and come into your office, so don't tell me, no, no. And then I've got some messages here. There's a headline that says Mushroom Chef's Facebook messages leak, with someone saying was it you this time? No, I can see why you'd think it was me or maybe you, but it wasn't us.
Speaker 2:No, it wasn't us. No, so that's very interesting, isn't it? So someone's leaking, but we don't know who.
Speaker 1:Oh, leaking like an absolute sieve.
Speaker 2:Yep, I mean you and I have both had journalists contact us.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:Someone's given our details.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they came directly to me, although I got a message through the website, so I think that this journalist had found me through the podcast. So, yeah, okay. So, as I said, when we first met her, she was preparing a house for sale and her mother, heather Scutter, died in 2019 from cancer. She has a sister, and I will not say what her name is because I think that she's a private person, you know, yes, and their dad passed away before the mother, erin's about 49 at the moment, and she was editing a local newsletter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was. Are they Anglican? It was an Anglican newsletter, I think.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure she did inherit it from the in-laws.
Speaker 2:Yeah, from Don and Gail.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they'd been doing it for years. But what I did find was fascinating Erin and I. Erin said I was a good egg. I saw that. I don't think anyone would say that now no, probably not Now according to vocabularycom, and it's not something we say here in New South Wales. But I've heard Mick Malloy, the comedian who's from Victoria, say you're a good egg, right. So that was the first time I heard it. And then Erin and a good egg is a friendly, old-fashioned way to talk about a good guy or a kind person. When you call the next-door neighbour a good egg, it's clear you're fond of her. The expression originally came from its opposite, bad egg, from the British public school slang from the 1800s for someone who's not very nice. Fifty years later, good egg emerged as a casual way to talk about a good chap or a decent fellow.
Speaker 2:I don't think I've ever called anyone a good egg.
Speaker 1:No, I think maybe it's something they do in Victoria. I'm not sure. But this sentiment of me being a good egg didn't last long, because I made a stupid snarky comment about something in the group and that's the other reason why they were annoyed about me with making that comment about the flowers, because I was snarky on Twitter about it. So, oh well, that's what I do. Yeah, it's what you do. Absolutely that's what I do. But Erin's interesting because she had the job at Air Services Australia. She was an air traffic controller for I don't know a couple of years, but she also worked for the Department of Defence and the bankruptcy part of the Australian government and they were finance roles. So she did train as an accountant.
Speaker 2:Yes, I do remember her telling us that. Is it true? I?
Speaker 1:haven't checked, have you?
Speaker 2:No, I haven't checked either, but that's what she told us.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Daniel. I really appreciate it and you might come back again soon.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think so, lisa. After the court case, probably because we have a lot more to share that we can't share right now.
Speaker 1:Yes, but thank you so much, and everyone else, thank you for listening to us today. You can find me on Twitter at Lisa Podcasts. I'm also putting my social media accounts as Instagram and Facebook there and we'll be back regularly with all your updates on this particular case, which is very disturbing. I also want to thank everyone who's listened to the podcast. We are absolutely delighted We've had so many downloads, so thank you and I shall catch you next time. Thanks, bye.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for listening today. Follow the Erin Patterson podcast on Apple, Spotify and all other platforms Plus. Go to the link in the show notes to sign up to our email list. That way, you will always know when there's a new episode.