Beige Pants, Dark Heart: Unmasking the Criminal Psychology of Australia's Mushroom Murderer

Join host Elisa as we dive into the chilling case of Erin Patterson, centred around a tragic family lunch involving toxic mushrooms and Beef Wellington.'

The psychology behind poisoners reveals why even intelligent criminals make critical errors, with Erin Patterson's case highlighting cognitive distortions, overconfidence and neurological factors that contribute to poor judgment despite academic intelligence. Australia's notorious female poisoners throughout history demonstrate similar patterns of calculated deception and manipulation, traits that align with Erin's profile as someone who could blend into the background while meticulously planning murder.

• Intelligent criminals often fail in their cover-up attempts due to cognitive distortions and overconfidence
• Erin brought her phone while collecting mushrooms and disposed of evidence on camera despite being "true crime savvy"
• Psychology of poisoners: immature, spoiled personalities who are manipulative and desperate to get their way
• Victoria's infamous female poisoning cases include Martha Needle (1894), Alice Mitchell (1909) and Caroline Grylls (1953)
• Poisoners typically operate behind pleasant facades while harboring immature personalities determined to manipulate
• The "quiet ones" who blend into the background are often the most dangerous and effective killers
• Evidence suggests Erin may have been defending herself online before her arrest

Please make sure that you sign up for our newsletter at mushroommurdertrial.com. It's free and it's fabulous.

#TrueCrime #MushroomMurderTrial #ErinPatterson #CriminalPsychology #ForensicPsychology #TrueCrimeAustralia #MurderMystery #CourtTrial #CriminalMind #TrueCrimePodcast #IntelligentCriminals #CognitiveDistortions #NetflixYou #PsychologyOfCrime #UnreliableNarrator #CrimeAnalysis #SupremeCourtTrial #MushroomMurder #TrueCrimeCommunity

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Mushroom Murder Trial
• 3:35 The Smart-Dumb Criminal Phenomenon
• 6:08 Psychology of Poisoners
• 8:41 Victoria's Infamous Poisoning Cases
• 11:56 Erin's Online Defenders
• 18:09 Closing and Newsletter Reminder

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Mushroom Murder Trial podcast where I try, mostly in vain, to understand Erin Patterson. It's a project where we all attempt to work out if she had a motive or indeed if she had several motives for her terrible crimes. Now, firstly, before we start, please make sure that you sign up for our newsletter. Start. Please make sure that you sign up for our newsletter, mushroommurdertrialcom. It's free and it's fabulous. Now, while listening to Erin and her testimony in the Supreme Court of Victoria, you could be forgiven for thinking we were being taken. Through every trauma and grievance of her life, it was clear that she sees herself as the victim, constantly wounded, anxious and let down by those around her. So should we look into this a bit further? I've mentioned before Dr John Matthias, who's a forensic psychologist from the Hidden True Crime podcast. Now he says with many criminals there's usually a love story gone wrong. My theory is not so much nothing to do with Simon, nothing to do with any other romantic partners in the past. It's to do with her childhood and, in particular, erin has said a few things about her mother, but do we know if they're true, because Erin is an unreliable narrator. So we might learn a bit more when she comes up for sentencing. Perhaps she'll allow a psychiatric report, maybe she won't. She might try to do her own, who knows. But I want to just talk about this broken heart factor because I believe Erin's rage comes down to her mother, dr Heather Scutter, who was an academic in Melbourne. Now she said she was treated like an orphan a comparison that hints at deep emotional wounds. I've been told many times about how smart Erin is from people whose job it is to know about such things. I also listened to her the eight days of her testimony, and I think she's pretty academically smart. But this is the number one comment I get on all platforms why do you say she's smart? She stuffed it up. That is very true, and these comments gave me pause to think about how Erin conducted her crimes. For example, why would someone so true crime savvy bring her phone with her to collect the death cap mushrooms in lock and out room? Now, when we're in the Kelly Lane Facebook group together, the group of us, we would look at a video and it's actually still on YouTube of Kelly Lane, who is the baby murderer who was studying in the true crime group, and we were like we can't believe. She went to the police without a lawyer. Well, what did Erin do? She wasn't taking notes, was she? Now? When she dumped the dehydrator, it was at a public waste management facility and she did it on camera. It's the same kitchen device that she photographed and showed images of to her Facebook friends of it on her kitchen bench with its metal trays with the mushrooms.

Speaker 1: 3:15

It is true, smart murderers often fail in their attempts to cover up their crimes, and that was the case with Erin. So I wanted to know why. So several factors contribute to this smart, dumb phenomenon. According to a 2024 study listed in BMC Psychology, this is cognitive distortion interplaying with criminal behaviour. Now what does that mean, lisa? Well, offenders may possess these distortions, irrational, self-justifying thought patterns that impair their judgment and decision-taking Right. So, like in the Idaho 4 case in the USA, he thought he was so smart, the killer because he studied criminology, but he left his DNA at the scene. Very smart guy doing a PhD. Now, these distortions can lead them to overestimate the likelihood of detection or overestimate their ability to deceive investigators, resulting in flawed cover-up strategies. Now, emotional and neurological factors. Leading University of Chicago neuroscience, jean DeCette, found people who commit homicide often exhibit oh, she won't like this, please don't play this in her prison. Reduced gray matter Sorry, that's not funny. Reduced gray matter in brain regions associated with emotional processing, behavioural control and social cognition. Well, that is interesting, isn't it? This neurological deficiency can impair their ability to manage impulses and foresee the consequences of their actions, leading to mistakes during both the crime and the subsequent cover-up attempts.

Speaker 1: 5:04

Overconfidence and underestimation of risks. Intelligent offenders may develop a sense of overconfidence in their ability to outsmart law enforcement. This overconfidence can result in underestimating the resources and expertise available to investigators. I bet you, erin, didn't think that the federal police had dogs that could sniff out electronic devices that were hidden. No, but they did. They were really looking for that other phone, absolutely. She said it was on a kitchen bench, but the police don't believe that and I think that's why they brought those dogs.

Speaker 1: 5:41

In Lack of experience with criminal activity, individuals with higher intelligence may not have had prior experience with criminal behaviour. Well, that's not the case with Erin speeding away from the police drunk, smashing into other people's property, making them unfamiliar with effective methods of evading detection. Their inexperience can lead to errors in judgment and execution when attempting to conceal their involvement in a crime. So, in summary, despite their intelligence, some murderers often fail in their cover-up attempts due to cognitive distortions, neurological impairments oh my god, she would hate that affecting judgment and impulse control, overconfidence and a lack of experience. But I did think she had a lot of balls. I've just got to say this. When the police were at her house on the 5th of August 2023 doing a raid, she had a lot of balls to swap the SIM cards in her phone when the police were just metres away from her. That, to me, kind of crystallised the fact that she had a criminal mindset and she was a criminal.

Speaker 1: 6:54

Now I'm not making excuses for her behaviour. It's more a case of trying to understand Erin Trudy Patterson, formerly Scutter, because over the years I've spent a long time looking for the keys to her personality. And why is this? Well, to quote fictional serial killer Joe Goldberg in the Netflix hit you quote, a writer has empathy for all his characters, even the pathetic ones. So that's uncharitable, but it's fitting. It's how I feel about Erin.

Speaker 1: 7:24

But according to Psychology Today, experts suggest that the personalities of poisoners resemble that of an immature child, spoiled, manipulative and desperate to get their way, regardless of the consequences. Manipulative and desperate to get their way, regardless of the consequences. Poisoning demands careful calculation and deceit, making it a crime suited to those who are cunning, creative and avoid direct conflict. Poisoners often rely on subtle manipulation, both verbal and emotional, to achieve their objectives. Now, convicted poisoners and they're rare because they don't normally arrest people for poisoning it's hard to prove. As we know, the only category studied is the convicted poisoners obviously frequently struggle with feelings of inadequacy, which they counteract with feelings of dominance, a rejection of authority and an exploitative nature. These traits demonstrate a complex mix of emotional needs and maladaptive behaviours that drive individuals to choose poisoning as a method of homicide.

Speaker 1: 8:29

Now I just wanted to go through with some history with you here about Victoria and poisoning cases they've had in that state. Okay, so, number one Martha Needle, 1894, the Richmond Poisoner. Martha Needle is one of Australia's most infamous female poisoners. She used arsenic to kill multiple family members, including her husband, three daughters and later her fiancé's brother. Her motivation seemed to be financial gain, as she claimed insurance money after each death. Nettle was executed in 1894 at Melbourne Jail. Now I know people are going to get upset and say this is the cattiest podcast in Australia, but Erin should be grateful that she's not going to be executed like they did 100 years ago. I'm sorry, I will maintain that point of view.

Speaker 1: 9:22

And then there was Alice Mitchell, 1909, the chocolate cream poisoner. She totally would have got me. I would have been dead the first time. Alice Mitchell was convicted, in 1909 for poisoning her friend Sarah Fletcher with strychnine-laced chocolates. The murder shocked the public due to its sinister nature. Mitchell sent poisoned chocolates as a quote gift. She was sentenced to death, later commuted to life imprisonment.

Speaker 1: 9:51

Okay, number three Caroline Grylls, 1953, the Thalley Poisoner. Although technically arrested in New South Wales, caroline Grylls had connections to Victoria. She was a serial poisoner who laced tea with thallium to murder her relatives. She sounds lovely. Several family members died before authorities linked her to the poisonings. She was sentenced to life imprisonment in 1953.

Speaker 1: 10:20

So there you go. We've got a few examples of poisoners and what they're like. And because to me, since discovering someone I interacted with turned out to be the perpetrator of an unfathomable horror, I've been down the rabbit holes of rabbit holes trying to work this out. But we will never truly know why she committed her crimes, because I believe Erin will not be forthcoming. This tragedy will remain the shocking true story of how this seemingly religiously devout mother of two brutally engineered a chilling triple homicide of two brutally engineered a chilling triple homicide. It's also an account of how her attempted murder and some of her online behaviour became intertwined with her real world horror. At the end of the day, the evidence presented to us in the Supreme Court of Victoria shows us a cold and calculated series of events by a perpetrator who meticulously planned and executed her crimes. But to me, psychologically, that really does open up a world of motivations, such as the potential broken heart, who knows?

Speaker 1: 11:31

But when it comes to Poisoners, I didn't immediately think of Erin in her array of beige pants, orthopedic sandals and long knit tops. I know that's mean, I know, but she's a murderer and I can say it because it's Australia's cattiest podcast. Instead, I imagined a poisoner to be a woman wearing a long black robe and wearing crimson lipstick, sneaking around in the dead of night with a syringe of mercury in her hand. Erin Patterson, a poisoner, a mass murderer. These things never even flickered into anyone's mind until the reality was too hard to ignore. So the stereotypes about poisoners are far removed from the reality and, as I said earlier, only a minority of them are ever caught. So there are poisoners out there today and we have no idea, because they float through life like ghosts, seeing everything from behind their manipulative and homicidal lens. And also, in my opinion, it's the ultimate crime for the passive aggressive, because poison's been used for a very, very long time and among those who've been caught.

Speaker 1: 12:46

Forensic psychologist Joni E Johnson explains that these poisoners tend to operate in the shadows, behind that pleasant facade. I don't think Erin had a pleasant facade, just saying Australia podcast Okay lurks an immature personality determined to get their way. Pleasant facade, just saying Australia podcast Okay Lurks an immature personality determined to get their way, often through emotional and verbal manipulation. They are also skilled at deception, adopting roles such as devoted spouse, compassionate caregiver or loyal friend. While motives for poisoning crimes vary, she notes that for many, greed is an insatiable hunger.

Speaker 1: 13:24

Interesting these killers often fit the archetype of the quiet ones, those who blend into the background, just like Erin, unnoticed, until it's too late. But then I've heard stories about people in town who claim that Erin has tried to ruin their lives. So that's hardly mousy. It's a bit villainous, isn't it? But if there's one thing I've been told about Erin in real life, it's that she's introverted and she does align eerily with this criminal profile, because if the colour beige was a person, it would be our mushroom murderer. Right and on August 7, 2023, erin faced the media again wearing white cotton slacks and a red knit top the same clothes she wore just days ago when she was refused medical treatment at Leon Gatha Urgent Care. So if you're ever searching for a poisoner, remember it's always the quiet ones, so it won't be me, for example.

Speaker 1: 14:26

Now, Erin lived as someone who didn't want to be noticed and she did like anonymity, especially online, and for years it worked. But that's the danger of someone like her, who exists on the fringes. We saw the shock waves of her behavior and it's the personality that allows them to fade into the background and that makes them so chillingly effective. So I think it took a while for Erin to kind of catch on to how truly devastating this situation was. And on August 5th 2023, so when I was talking earlier about her swapping the SIM cards the gravity of the situation hit home and she was reportedly heard by police wailing Come on, erin Wailing. I wonder if she had real tears while they searched her house.

Speaker 1: 15:15

And it's interesting because after this, there were people coming out supporting Erin on social media. Okay, and I don't know precisely who they were, but I'll read you a few things. Generally, people were shocked. The locals were in grief, and then many people were sceptics. Did this really happen? How could such a tragedy occur during a family lunch? Did this really happen? How could such a tragedy occur during a family lunch?

Speaker 1: 15:44

So some users debated the safety of foraging wild mushrooms, while others criticised Erin's role in the incident. Except now this came out on Facebook. I feel so sorry for this lady and can't imagine she meant any harm. Oh, by the way, I need to mention this was in a public forum, okay, so it hasn't been stolen. And then there's a reply to that tell that to their loved ones. And someone said you are joking. So I don't know, maybe someone was being sympathetic towards Erin, but she does seem to create drama wherever she goes. It's very strange. She does seem to create drama wherever she goes. It's very strange.

Speaker 1: 16:26

So, if we go on to Reddit, there was a post, and so it was an Erin Patterson woman at the centre of suspected Leon Gaffer poisoning. Now I think this is interesting. There is absolutely nothing to gain from discussing a case that is under investigation. This is just gossip. Now, if you look at the reviews for my podcast, I have got someone they may be this person, they may not be. I actually think they're both the same who keeps saying that my podcast is based on gossip. Interesting they leave little clues, don't they? Erin question mark. So someone's saying are you Erin to this person? You know the police will look at your reddit app, right? And then someone says oh damn, just after you said that the person deleted their account, I think you got her. Ha ha ha, either her or someone close to her. Someone sent as a tip into the cops. And then someone said ha ha ha, whoops.

Speaker 1: 17:20

That user replied to a lot of comments back then defending erin and yowling that it was all gossip. Check my reviews. I saw her username had done it about 10 times, so I called her out and she fled. Ha ha ha it. Wish there were screenshots of the original comments. I think you busted her. And then someone said was that the friend who posted in Reddit? Melbourne Isn't that interesting? So people were saying they thought it was Erin. So maybe Erin thinks a lot of what's said about her is gossip, although I doubt in jail that she's able to review my podcast? Yeah, I doubt it. I'm quite proud of that, actually.

Speaker 1: 18:07

So that's what I've got for you today. Thank you so much for listening. You guys are my favorites. Welcome to everyone who's come over from YouTube. Hello now, if you would like to follow me, my social media accounts are there in the discussion and also we have my website where you can join up and get the newsletter for free. So that would be fabulous. I'll do one this week. Hopefully you'll like it very much, and you can also donate $5 to me, only if you can. And thank you to everyone who's donated, and then someone donated on YouTube as well. Thank you, you guys are absolute legends. I do appreciate it, and it's buy me a coffee, so there's a link in the show notes. So thank you for that. I will speak to you very soon and have a fabulous week, and we're going to be back soon with more interviews of people who were on the ground during the court, so that'll be fascinating. But thank you so much and I shall speak to you soon. Bye.