We Bought A Franchise!

Chuck Runyon: CEO of Anytime Fitness on how technology and empathy helped build Anytime Fitness

• Jack Johnson

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A small-town key and a big idea changed fitness forever. We’re sitting with Chuck Runyon, cofounder of Anytime Fitness and Purpose Brands, to trace the leap from oversized racquetball clubs to tech-enabled, 24/7 gyms that actually match how people train today. Chuck opens up about building with empathy for small business owners, why “health first, brand second” guides every decision, and how a relentless focus on unit-level performance fuels enduring growth.

We dig into the trends reshaping the industry: strength training as the foundation, recovery moving mainstream with saunas and red light, and the rise of personalization powered by wearables, biometrics, and smarter blood work. Chuck explains how human-plus-AI coaching can cut through wellness noise by turning data into plans people can follow, with accountability that comes from a coach’s hug, high five, or hard push. If you’ve wondered how to open strong, he breaks down the presales playbook, the non-negotiables in site selection, and the KPIs every operator must master—average member value, PT penetration, close rate, and engagement.

For investors and operators, we cover what makes a brand acquisition-ready: proof of concept, scalable economics, and international portability. Chuck shares how master franchises drive explosive global growth, why standardization matters with room for local flavor, and how private equity roll-ups can unlock faster expansion and cleaner exits. He’s candid about mistakes, proud of the culture that’s won best-place-to-work awards, and bullish on the next decade as fitness and medical care converge.

If you care about building durable franchises, picking winners in longevity and personal care, or just want a clearer roadmap to member outcomes that stick, this conversation delivers. Subscribe, share with a friend who’s eyeing their first franchise, and leave a review with the KPI you track first—we’ll feature the best insights on a future show.

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From your pals in franchise ownership, Jack and Jill Johnson.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi everyone, welcome back to the We Bought a Franchise Podcast. I'm Jack Johnson. I'm Jill Johnson. And today, boy, we've got a great podcast for you guys today. Today, we have the legendary Chuck Runyon of Anytime Fitness and Purpose Brands, Orange Theory. Chuck, I know I'm probably leaving some of this out. What Waxing the City 2? Thank you for being on our podcast today.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, thank you. Along with the Bar Method and Basecamp Fitness. So we have five franchise brands within the portfolio and excited to be here today. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my gosh. Excellent. What a portfolio. We've got so much to unpack. And of course, we're joined by our esteemed panel of franchise consultants. We have Katherine Allen, Brian Gross, David San Juan, and Morgan Knowler joining us. Um, I think this is going to be a terrific podcast today. And and Chuck, you know, there's so much that you've done in your career. And I'd love to hear your story and kind of what got you started. Uh, maybe just if you wouldn't mind, how did this all start? How did how did anytime fitness begin? What was the need that you saw? How did how did you get into all of this?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it really goes back to when Dave and I were like 20 years old. So we have been like entrepreneurs for 36 years. And it's really important to note that for the majority of that time, we've been small business owners, which has like instilled within us this incredible empathy. And it's like no matter how big purpose brand gets, we have the soul of a small business owner. We understand how hard it is to run a small business and that there are never enough resources to like to help. And so that's why with our franchise owners, man, we know what it's like. And so we have so much empathy and we provide so much support, both emotional and operational support. But when we were 20, we we started selling memberships and health clubs here in Minneapolis, St. Paul. We became very good at it and we knew how to like market and do membership blitzes. So from you know, for 15 years, from 1990 to 2005, we ran a marketing company that would work with health clubs all across the US, Canada, even in Australia. And we would do membership blitzes for multi-purpose health clubs around the country. And we generate hundreds, sometimes thousands of memberships. And our company got paid a commission based on performance. So we've always been performance driven. We've always had to like earn it. And then in the late 90s, we came across some distressed health clubs that had a racquetball, whirlpool, sauna, you know, 40, 50, 60,000 square feet. And they were going to close. We would buy them very cheap. We'd, you know, remodel them and put in our sales and marketing expertise and take a club that maybe had a few hundred members to a few thousand members. And we'd end up selling them for a profit. And it was during the ownership of those larger clubs where we realized that, you know, racquetball is declining, aerobics was declining at the time, pools, whirlpool saunas, all that stuff was being underutilized. And we're like, gosh, we've got 50,000, 60,000 square feet, but most people are coming in for cardio and strength and nautilus and personal training. And so we kept thinking about the idea of all right, we should we should create more of an express club. And but we didn't really know what the differentiator was. So I went to visit one of our teams in Tullahoma, Tennessee, a very small town and outside of uh Nashville. And we were marketing, we were creating memberships for a small town club, and the owner was giving away hardware keys to his members. And I remember walking to the parking lot, calling my partners at the time, Dave being one of them, saying, look, this is it. We can create like a keyless club that is efficient. And you know, back in 2002 or 2001, we started this, you know, remember the the this type of technology didn't exist. Um there were no smartphones, right? We're using floppy disk at the time. And so we really in 2002, in May, launched the first technology-enabled fitness center, using technology to give our members 24-7 convenience, come in anytime they want, surveillance system, and we gave away key fobs, but it allowed the owner to provide 24-7 access, but not always staff the club. And we took all the safety requirements. And so our payroll in our big stores used to be like 40% or more. And in anytime fitness, it'd be 10% because you can selectively staff. And so that technology enabled us to grow very fast. And we look, we didn't know much about franchising at the time, but we're quick learners. We started club number one as a franchise, and so the genesis was the differentiator of technology meets fitness, and then our investment in franchising in day one.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, it's just such an incredible story. And you guys were named the number one franchise in the world uh in 2016 by Entrepreneur Magazine.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, two years in a row, by the way. And I like to say that, you know, I'm from Minnesota. We are the most winning is purple team. The Vikings are number two, because in franchising, that's like the equivalent to winning the Super Bowl, which we won twice. And as you know, teams from Minnesota don't win the Super Bowl. So we are proud of that award. By the way, we've also received like best place to work in Minnesota multiple times. So we're super proud of our culture and winning that talent award and being a great place to work and the lifestyle we deliver franchisees.

SPEAKER_01:

So the world, and it's interesting, we had, I don't know if you know Josh York from Jim Guys. He's growing up an incredible franchise. We we had him on the podcast last week. And and Chuck, I'd say for half of it, we just kind of talked about cold plunging and sauna and recovery. And it seems to me that fitness has changed a lot in the last 10 years. You know, you look at the things that we're doing now versus what we were doing 10 years ago. Strength has moved into the lead, right? More strength, less cardio, more steps. You don't need to go run yourself to death anymore. Now it's more focused on building up that sort of you know high-intensity workouts and then recovery with sauna and cold plungers. I'd love to hear your take on where things are going, where things have changed and what you see happening out there.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely love it. Look, we all wish COVID never happened, but the the I guess silver lining is all these wellness conversations have accelerated. And if you think about our aging population, I love the narrative around longevity and strength training and quality of life and health span, right? It's not about six-pack abs, it's not about necessarily vanity, it's about the mental side of fitness and uh adding quality to our life because uh health is an asset. So I love it. There has never been a better time to be a fitness consumer. You can find things free on YouTube, you can find a very cheap club nearby, you can find a boutique for the modality that you love, you can find an expensive club, you can find a convenient club. You wearables, I mean, it's never ever been a better time. And therefore, it's also never been a better time in this industry to be an entrepreneur or to be a franchisee. And so I love where this is going. The best years are ahead of us. If you think about all the conversations around preventative wellness and this intersection between medical and fitness coming together, huge opportunities for everyone in fitness and every single consumer. So, I mean, it's the right conversations to have. And I love it. Look, I guarantee you the next decade's gonna be an incredible opportunity for everyone in wellness.

SPEAKER_01:

I just got the the whoop um last week.

SPEAKER_06:

And uh you have it, stop talking about them.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, so yesterday I took we both Joel and I just did our you know, what semi-annual? We get them twice a year. No, this is our annual one, but like she does our blood twice a year. Yes. Okay, so so whoop checked seven sixty-five markers, right? Um and I had 55 from the doctor, and I inputted all of it into Whoop, and then Whoop said, okay, well, now based upon your sleep, based upon your exercise, based upon your all this stuff, here's what I'm gonna recommend for you. I'm like, just like you said, wow, what a great time for for you know, fitness and data and all this great stuff.

SPEAKER_00:

The level of personalization is remarkable and only getting better. The wearables are so good in this space. And then the democratization of services like getting your blood panel, but then getting them in a way that's understandable and now taking actionable steps, and that is like never before, you know, peptides, personalization, supplements. And for us now to like take that information and give it to our medical professionals to get the right care that is very preventative. I mean, I'm telling you, it's only going to get better. If you look at health kit, right, it's very portable. I can share that now with my medical professional, my physical therapist, or my nutritionist, whoever I want. And so I'm telling you, we it's uh this level of personalization and the ability now to maybe monetize that in the future with maybe lower insurance costs or you know, brand deals from you know, supplements or uh, you know, getting your blood tests, et cetera, it's it's only gonna get better. So I love where it's going.

SPEAKER_01:

We are so excited to have um your brands as a part of our portfolio. We just started working with Anytime Uh Fitness over the past, I think, three months or so. Uh, I believe we're adding Orange Theory to our inventory for all of you listening. We should be able to offer that in the next couple of weeks. We're excited about that. Um, team, do you guys have questions you'd like to start diving in?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, hi, Chuck. Morgan Knowler here. Um, I am curious how Purpose Brands uh evaluates whether one of these is scalable. Like what data do you use and how do you determine what's part of Purpose Brands?

SPEAKER_00:

It's a great question. And we are still eagerly looking at the what I'd call the personal care space. Um, Wax in the City is a brand that we acquired uh, you know, pre-COVID. Uh it's doing well. That gives us permission to kind of be in that personal care space. And I think if you look at beauty and skin and anti-aging, longevity, and med spa and all those things, there are going to be some winners that we're gonna, you know, kind of keep our eyes on to potentially acquire. Um, it we definitely has to be of something of purpose, you know, something that we believe in that makes lives better. That that's a that's an absolute something we won't uh compromise on. And then, you know, it's got to be a the proof of concept is there. I mean, we're probably we're at the size now. We need to have a brand that has shown proof of concept, you know, probably has at least 100 or more units as a uh, you know, has growth potential and is also portable internationally. I mean, one of the biggest assets of purpose brands is we have about 18 master franchisees around the world. You know, people don't know this, but we have more locations for any time fitness located outside the US than inside the US. I mean, over 3,000 outside the US. In fact, if we open up 500 clubs this year, 75 to 80% of those will be outside the US. So we need something that's portable so we can leverage our relationships around the world. Um, and then we need something that has shown proof of concept. It's a good product, it's a good service. Now we can just add our capabilities to make it grow faster.

SPEAKER_05:

Great, thank you. And also I was thinking about the franchisees you have in your system and how fitness and wellness is you know, it's it's very competitive market. What KPIs do you recommend that they pay attention to in order to stay ahead of the curve and relevant?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a great question. So every brand, of course, has a different set of KPIs. Um, and so our fitness business coaches, I mean, you know, have these KPIs, the owner has it as well. And so, you know, when people come through like our discovery days, we talk about those KPIs. Like, what do we track? Why do we track them? And more importantly, how do we manage them? How do we measure them? How do we make sure that if you're doing well, you can be best in class? If you're not doing well, how do you change that? So, I mean, we have very typical KPIs on like personal training percentage, average member value, you know, close rate. I mean, all these things are very typical. But it's really important for us to manage from those KPIs to make sure our owners understand it. And more importantly, they know how to take action and get their team to take action around it and reward those. And uh, at the end of the day, we try to benchmark those within our networks you know where you're best in class or where you need some improvement.

SPEAKER_04:

Excellent. Thank you. This is Catherine Allen. Hey, Chuck. Um, what advice would you have for someone in the corporate fitness space looking to transition into franchise ownership?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I mean, typically our some of our most successful franchisees have come to us with fitness industry experience. So if they already have some corporate fitness experience, I think that's a that's a massive asset to put to work. Um, but like any franchisee, first of all, they really should get to know their franchise or get to know the people on the team. When you come to Discovery Day, like spend time with the marketing leader, the real estate leader, the you know, all the primary subject matter experts that are going to help drive this business and get an you know, get a feel for the culture and the sentiment that the franchise or has and the relationship they have with franchisees, as well as do your homework, call franchisees. But you know, going back to that KPI conversation, I mean, talk about the KPIs and you know, how will I be measured for success? How do I change these? I mean, really get to understand the business. I think the KPIs that a franchise or measures and a franchisee has tells a lot about what's important and see kind of go into it eyes wide open is all right, here, you know, if I know I need to acquire members and engage those members, support those members, let's look at the KPIs that do that.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it's interesting. Um, real quick point yesterday, I love what you said, Chuck, about call franchisees. So we're working with a client that's talking to a very, I don't want to say very, but a fairly young franchise. And the representative texted me last night and he said, Hey, listen, there's something wrong with your client. They say to me they're not gonna sign unless they can talk to at least five random franchisees. What's up with that? And I said, That's my guidance. I make sure we make sure at franchise insiders and all of us, Chuck, the the whole purpose of our brand is we are franchise owners helping future franchise owners. All of us are current or former franchise owners. And I said to the rep, look, that's our guidance. We want them to talk to high performers, low performers, medium performers, even someone that's left the system. Because yes, the item 19 and the item 20 and the item six and seven tell a story, but nothing tells a better story than franchisees.

SPEAKER_00:

100% agree. It's funny. Um there was a side opportunity I was kind of looking for on behalf of a group of investor friends. And so I made some phone calls personally to this brand I was looking at, not in the Wilbus space. And you know, I know what questions ask. And at the end of the day, I did enough diligence and I and I called people off the reference sheet. By the way, they were franchisees, they gave me some of their financials. And at the end of the day, that group did not decide to do the investment because it just wasn't good enough. And so I 100% agree. Like, visit or call franchisees on or off the reference sheet. You the, you know, what we tell our sales team to do is like, given the situation of the prospect, maybe the type of market, the type of partnership or kind of the competitive make, like, try to find them some references where they have this specific competitor or they have a partnership like this. And you know, provide a curated list, but the but the prospect should always do some of their own diligence as well, for sure. And you know, we we pride ourselves in providing a soft landing. Look, when a club or studio or franchise is not going well, we try to help resell. We will help our franchisee to the last out to the last inning. And so try to talk to some of those people. But also, you guys know this, you know, everyone in business has bad days. And we when you are a franchisee, if you're having a bad day, and sometimes it comes out that way. So you just gotta, you know, if you do some accumulative diligence, you take all of that and versus maybe a one-off call. You know, if someone's great or someone's bad, just you know, look at all of it in totality.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, we always talk about how, you know, it's important to talk to everybody, but everyone's in a different place in this whole process. So one thing we always talk about is how your first, you know, 12 to 18 months can be the most stressful, the most difficult. Um, so if you're starting, let's say, an anytime fitness from scratch, what do those first like 12 months look like?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, assuming you, you know, you sign the franchise agreement and we have all the real estate analytics and the broker network, you know, and we've got to help you find a good site. That is a very critical decision. So we've got all the vendors and all the help to do that. You know, once you get that site solidified and negotiate a lease, and we have a wonderful vendor to help do that because no one should ever negotiate their lease on their own, you know, make sure they hire an attorney. But assuming you have the site, the lease signed, we give a design book and project management to help you do the design process to get that store open. But the beauty about the wellness space, specifically with any time fitness, is you can pre-sale memberships before you open. And so you can open up your doors. Our average club opens up with over 150 members. So you've already got some capital, you've already got some recurring revenue booked, right? We sign people up on 12, 18, or 24 month agreements. And so with that recurring, so that's a wonderful way to start your business when you've already got, say, a couple hundred members. And by the way, we've had we've had clubs join up with hundreds of members, even over a thousand. So it's, you know, really get tactical. I mean, there's never a better time when you're the brand new business in town. There's so much local PR, there's so much curiosity, so much excitement. We really want our franchisees to get off to a good start. So no matter what business, I if you're in a flower business, if you're in a restaurant business, really maximize that grand opening that first six months because everyone's excited about your business.

SPEAKER_02:

Chuck, uh Brian Gross here. And I'm going to completely disagree with something you said earlier. Um I go to the gym daily and it's purely for vanity. All right. So uh so some of us, some of us are still out there. Um but uh but uh on a more serious note, you know, one of the cool things about some of your brands, they've been around a long time, right? So you've seen a lot of economic cycles, ups and downs. You've seen a lot of fitness fads come and go. You know, so how do you set up your brands for that long-term success?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's a great question, by the way. In 23 years of anytime fitness, we've been through the startup years, the great recession. A lot of people don't remember those times, right, when the banking industry was collapsing and you know, landlords didn't want to make any deals. We couldn't look, it was tough to get financing. We've been through what I'd call this digital, right, ubiquitous revolution where everyone, the phone now has become the number one thing in everyone's life. We've been through so many different types of competition. We've been through COVID. And so we've kind of seen it all. And you know, we we have to be incredibly re-adaptable, incredibly resilient, you know, incredibly strong, not just operationally, but emotionally for our franchise owners. And we we provide emotional support sometimes as much as we provide operational support. And so we talk about EQ a lot with our team and how necessary that is to listen and to comfort and to you know to just offer that emotional support to our franchise owners. Um, you know, the we adapt to the times. I mean, obviously, strength training has never been more important, but there were times when people were kind of into the studio sector. And so we've done things like small group training, we've done you know, in-person one-on-one coaching, we are now doing virtual coaching. We've offered, we've added nutrition and recovery as is uh Jack started earlier in this conversation. I mean, we have saunas in some of our clubs now. We have red light therapy in some of our clubs, and so we want to be very adaptable. And so our offerings have kind of like been a bit elastic in the size of our clubs. We've added functional training. Um, and so over the years, we continue to adapt and evolve our model. Uh, we we did a deal with Apple Fitness Plus. Every single one of our members gets Apple Fitness Plus as part of their membership so that digital, right? They can do whether they're in a club or outside of a club, they now have you know every modality at Apple Fitness Clubs. They're an incredible partner. So we just continue to adapt to what the consumers' needs and expectations are.

SPEAKER_01:

Chuck, is there are there owners that diversify from Anytime to Orange Theory and vice versa? How much of that are you guys seeing?

SPEAKER_00:

You know, the merger is relatively new. I mean, it's about a year and a half, so we have not seen that much yet. Okay. Uh internationally, for certain that's going to happen as our masters kind of grow and maturity, they're going to have be multi-brand in their portfolio. Uh, we have some owners now who do like Basecamp at any time because that's been around longer, Wax in the City, Bar Methods. We have some cross-polination. And some of our owners now are actually, you know, becoming with private equity back, they're looking for um other offerings even outside of wellness. So it's, I would say it's becoming more common. But as you look at our entire portfolio, it's still a small percentage of owners.

SPEAKER_01:

And and that's a great point. And for our listeners that are, you know, private equity and looking for roll-ups within franchise, uh, franchise communities, is that something that you guys are open to?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, huge trend right now going on within our network. And I think all our franchising, I think private equity loves franchising, the predictability of recurring revenue. They love to back solid operators who have it with a proven track record. And you can do some roll-ups, right? You can get that eBay arbitrage. You can buy a single unit or two or three units for a much less lower multiple. And once you put in a platform, you get a higher multiple. So I think that's a trend happening within our network and across franchising. And look, you know, for private equity, assuming you pick the right partner, they add capital, you know, they add capability, they can be a really good partner. So it's a way to professionalize your operation and grow quicker.

SPEAKER_01:

And especially if you can recapitalize a very effective owner. Um, and okay, now here, you've done a great job growing these five locations. Now here's 20 million. Let's go do it. Let's go take some of those underperformers, let's buy them and grow them. And and and for everybody wins, right? You guys win, the item 19 gets beefier. Um, those owners that were underperforming get an exit and private equity and the owner, they get acquisition partners. I mean, that's where to me, a mature system like the brands that you guys have that that we feel so good about connecting investors to you guys because we know there are built-in acquisition and exit partners from day one. So we'll know at month 18, as Jill mentioned, of being open, you've got options to either grow or sell to someone else and go do something else.

SPEAKER_00:

You nailed it. Nothing to add there, you nailed it. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

David, what do you got? Hey, Chuck.

SPEAKER_03:

David said, hold on here. Um, first of all, I think I've spent money in every single one of your clubs. So uh I'm one of the gym rats. I I've actually my last gym membership was at Anytime Fitness in a small town called Liberty Hill, Texas. Uh that was the only gym around, so it's great. Um talking about uh multi-unit operations, how do you maintain brand alignment when franchisees grow into multi-unit operators with their own local identity?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh boy, that's a great question. And first let me say, you know, one of the reasons we started Anytime Fitness too is we saw all these underserved markets, specifically rural to like, you know, second or third tier. I mean, we might be the only club in a town of five, 10, 15,000, 20,000 people. And so if you think about the health in rural America, it's it's not that great. And so for us to provide what I'd call big gym equipment, big gym services in a smaller gym in a in a market that can only we're probably the only type of gym that can be sustainable. I love it. I'm so proud of the fact that we offer, you know, anytime fitness in our services in very small markets, by the way, around the world now. So I love that. Your question's great. So if I'm being honest, um, you know, we started in 2002. Our business model was really easy to replicate. And so after we launched, everyone saw it. We had dozens and dozens of copycatters. I mean, go around 5,000 square feet, shove it full of equipment, create this technology package, and open. And so we were in this crazy market race. So if I'm being honest, we sold to anyone because we wanted to win the market share race. We want to be the number one player. It worked out. We're here today. We are like 40 times bigger than our number two competitor, and uh, you know, most of those other competitors went out of business. But because we grew so fast, um, if I as I look back, we did not uh have the uniformity and brand standards and enforcement that we should have. And so today, uh, you know, you can go to two anytime fitnesses and unfortunately have not the same type of standardized experience. We are much better at today than we ever have been before. And like internationally, our clubs are better as a network than they are domestically, and we're getting better domestically. So but it's a mistake I I made and we made as a leader to not strictly we could have done both at the same time. So, but today, look, it's far more standardized, far more uniformity. We have a great deal of respect for what localization is necessary, but at the end of the day, we want every any time fitness to look and feel and operate very, very similarly. So, you know, we're our owners, community events, you know, some of the how they engage the community, uh, obviously some of the culture that they have is obviously nuanced to their community and their leadership, but we're trying to be a little bit more standardized than we've ever been before. And and by the way, I think one of the if you think about international growth, we call it global. What do we globalize in the experience that is absolutely standard across every anytime fitness in the world? And then what do we need to localize? And if you're in Japan, if you're in Spain, if you're in in London, you know, there are some local nuances we have to be very respectful of and we have to accommodate locally. So there are some things we we need to allow to make sure that brand thrives in that region of the world.

SPEAKER_01:

And Chuck, did you mention on the international front, are you guys doing uh masters or is it just you know singles and multi-unit?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh master franchisees. So, for instance, in our first um deal was Australia, 2008. They essentially buy the rights to subfranchise in Australia. So they sell and support their own franchisees. We support the master franchisee. And so Australia, Anytime Fitness is the number one brand in Australia. As we speak, they're having their annual conference in Gold Coast right now, and um they are crushing it. They're by the way, they've never had better numbers in terms of member count, average member value, total remit. They are absolutely crushing it. And and we they're our partners, but again, they sell and support their own network of franchise owners.

SPEAKER_01:

Chuck, I've got a funny story for you. So prior to starting franchise insiders, Jill, myself, Catherine, we were at a franchise which is now known as the Key, which is in-home healthcare. Um and our first master franchisee was in Australia too, because Catherine on her honeymoon, where did you meet, where did you meet that franchisee?

SPEAKER_04:

Uh in Bali at a restaurant bar. Docker. And I started talking to him uh about his his dad, and he had dementia. And so he was, you know, I started talking about our dementia care and all these things, and next thing we know, connected him with Jack and he became our master franchise owner.

SPEAKER_01:

Very cool. It's amazing how often Australia is the first master, master franchise.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, they're a very franchise-centric culture. I think per capita, they're they're maybe the highest or one of the highest countries of franchises per capita. So they're very, very franchise-centric.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I think for us it's the home care there is so different with their home care packages and how it's run. It's very different than the the US. So um they those owners did very well.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's funny. Remember, we started here in 2002, and around there were so many competitors here domestically, but around the world, people took notice. And so in Australia, we were not the first to market in our type of business model. There were competitors there. But I give so much credit to our Australian partners, they out-executed our competition. We are by far in our the number one fitness brand in Australia. They're just crushing it.

SPEAKER_04:

It's amazing. I feel like people in Australia would be very fitness conscious. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh, you'd be surprised. People have that, but you know, the the mental health in Australia is a big deal. Uh, the obesity rate and unhealthy is probably a little bit more than you think. Um, and so they're not as healthy as uh what yeah, as the brand appears. By the way, I love Australia. There's some of my my best buddies are down there, but uh yeah, they they're like every other country. They you know they're being too sedentary, not eating the right types of food, so they need more anytime.

SPEAKER_04:

Too much vegemite, too much vegemite.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. 100%.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, and then looking at your LinkedIn um profile, Chuck, I can see that you know, health, wellness, nutrition, that's a big part of uh of your, I would say, passion, perhaps, and in helping to educate the world on what's right in terms of uh uh of nutrition.

SPEAKER_00:

I've used a term called health first, brand second, meaning that I want to spend my time promoting uh a healthier life. Uh that means we lobby with members of Congress and and uh you know policymakers around the world. Look, it's just you know, we need to get people healthier. Despite the abundance of wellness offerings, we are an unhealthy society. And and by the way, poor health around the world. And so I just want people to work out. I just want people to be healthy. So if you choose anytime fitness, awesome. But if you choose another brand, I just want you to choose, I just want you to be healthy and like live healthier behaviors. So I really care about health first, brand second. And if the world is getting healthier, all of us in this industry are gonna benefit. Um, but I just want healthier societies, I want healthier people around the world.

SPEAKER_01:

And it feels like that, you know, it feels like we've got some of the right messaging going out there. And I again, I think we're getting so much smarter about this. When I think back to like when you when you and I first met in 2007, I mean, we didn't think at all about nutrition. You know, we we wanted protein, but it was like if you look at like the protein shakes we had back then, the stuff that was in those pro the gums and the fillers, and now we're getting so much more knowledgeable about let's go with less ingredients, simpler ingredients, cleaner ingredients. Um, and you know, it's so cool because now I can just say to ChatGPT, what do you think of the ingredients of this shake? And it will say, Well, this is good and this is not good. So we, like you've said repeatedly on this podcast, we're in such a neat environment now because we have so much data. It's just executing the data.

SPEAKER_06:

I think it's important too to have different types of fitness because you know, once you kind of find your passion and what you love, like those orange theory people, they're they're hardcore. Like I'm impressed. They're up every morning, they're going, like they're dedicated. And, you know, I mean, I'm someone that one time I couldn't find a parking spot at the gym, so I left. Um, but it was a long time ago. I, you know, but it was until I found something that I loved, you know, until I started getting into different things. So I think having the variety and the fact that we have that now, you know, you have orange theory is great for people who are competitive. You have bar method or you know, something like that that's going to be a little bit maybe less intense for people looking for a different type of thing. I just think it's amazing how much variety we have. And I love that you guys have that.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you. And look, you guys are all fitness enthusiasts. You understand wellness, you understand how important it is mentally and physically. And I'm a hardwired optimist. However, I also understand the reality. And the reality is eight out of 10 people are not very healthy. They're not, they're not a member of a commercial health club, they're not seeing much activity during the week. And the reality is, you know, this technology is allowing us to be sedentary. And unfortunately, it's we're consuming the things that are making us mentally fragile or mentally in a worse place. And so, mental health, as you know, is becoming a big issue. Uh, people are sitting too much and and not burning off the calories, and um we have what I consider very low nutritional IQ. The average person doesn't really understand. The chloric intake. They underestimate the calories on their plate and they overestimate what movement and burn. And so if you don't have that knowledge, it's it's really, I mean, your body IQ is very, very low for most people. They don't understand your resting metabolic rate. And so you guys get it, but I'm telling you, it's the health for most people is getting worse, not better, despite the abundant growth of our industry.

SPEAKER_02:

So, Chuck, on you know, along those lines, right, we have access to more information than than ever. You know, that we've made a lot of development. We've we've hit on some of those trends here. Um, you know, where do you see this space going over the next five, 10 years?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, wow, you nailed it, man. So if you look at our watch for our January marketing campaign for Nytime Fitness because there's too much information out there. It's too noisy. Consumers don't know who to trust. They don't know what is really the truth. And so we're leaning into that. Uh, I think AI can, of course, help us, but at the end of the day, people still need a human touch. They need a high five from their coach, uh, they need a hug. Sometimes they need that kick in the butt. They need to be held accountable. Accountability is hard in today's environment. So we're really trying to like balance the right AI for personalization, but also oftentimes it tells our reminds our coaches or our club staff the messages that a person needs to hear. And we can personalize that message. So it's kind of like this human AI um combination that we're trying to zero in on. And so people know who to trust. We we want them to be able to trust for local New Time Fitness, the content we provide them that's right for them and the coach that they meet with because we understand where they're at, and that comes from taking in their biometrics, taking their behaviors, like we can take in their wearable information. We've got body scanners with 40 different biometrics. So we can take in that information, be be hyper personal, and then make sure to customize a plan that meets their lifestyle and meets their needs. And so I'm not saying we're we're where we need to be today, but that's where we're going. And there's never been more a better time for consumer data, and we can use it for the right purposes. And so I'm super excited about that. But you nailed it, man. There's so much information out there. People don't know who to trust or what to do.

SPEAKER_01:

Chuck, one of my favorite sayings is help enough people get what they want, and you will get what you want. And how good must it feel for you to have created this incredible brand that has been voted the best franchise in the world, to have helped so many people. Like what you have done has helped so many people. What does that feel like when you put your head down on the pillow at the end of the night? I mean, that must feel so good.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's funny you say that phrase. I always use it all the time is to put your head down on the pillow, knowing that the work you did today helped others. I can't put a price on it. Like, I mean, purpose brands, that is like who we are. And so the fact that the harder we work, the more people around the world have access to health, the harder we work, the more jobs we create around the world. Where, by the way, for some people around the world, you know, you get to like Southeast Asia, where jobs aren't as abundant and maybe jobs for women aren't as abundant. I mean, we empower people around the world to provide franchise opportunities to democratize and make affordable franchise opportunities. So we get to like triple dip on consumers, on our franchisees and club staff, and on our own employees. Oh man, it is soul enriching. It's calories for the soul. And so at the end of the day, it's like the purpose is very, very strong in what we do. I can't imagine doing it more because we get to help people. The harder we, you know, no matter what, I don't care how hard it gets, what problems we're trying to solve, if we solve it, we help more people.

SPEAKER_01:

So well said.

SPEAKER_00:

By the way, I can't help but plug this. Just came out. Dave and I wrote a book called Franchise Your Franchise. And so, look, we've never wanted to build an ordinary franchise. We wanted something that like literally lights people up and uh from from uh you know, win their hearts, win their mind, win their soul. And so I'm gonna send you guys a copy because like and uh we just want people to build like a franchise, like you know, get as passionate about your job as you do like your college team or your sports team or your favorite band. I mean, let's really emotionally engage our stakeholders, unlike other other opportunities.

SPEAKER_01:

That's great. Yeah, that's fabulous. Is there is there Kindle and audio versions of that book too, Chubb?

SPEAKER_00:

It is so hot off the press. We literally created this for our franchise owners at our our Boston conference two weeks ago. So probably early 2026, there will be those options, but right now it's just a good old rudimentary archaic book. Love it, love it.

SPEAKER_01:

That's awesome. Well, Chuck, you've been so generous with your time today. What I'd like to do now is maybe just do a quick round the horn uh last questions. Um I'm gonna go ahead and uh Catherine, you you draw first.

SPEAKER_04:

So gosh, why? Why first? So much thank you, thank you, Chuck, for joining. Honestly.

SPEAKER_03:

Better first than last.

SPEAKER_04:

A pleasure to have you on today's call. One question I didn't get to ask uh that I wanted to was as women lead more in the fitness and wellness space, how is Purpose Brand supporting diversity and leadership development across its systems?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh gosh, I love that question. I'm telling you, maybe one of the secret ingredients of our success over the last 23 years has been that the majority of people of influence within our company have been women. Look, we are a brand of EQ. We're a brand that really needs to communicate. And generally speaking, um, women have strong communicators. They listen, they're willing to engage their heart, they have empathy, they they just, at the end of the day, they have a high EQ. So we've created an atmosphere, an environment where with unlimited PTO, like we as I'm a parent of four, Dave's a parent of five, we never want our employees to miss those important moments. So like we don't track it, like you do what you got to do. And so we've been an amazing place for people of all walks of life to work, but specifically um women. And you will not find a more diverse franchise brand, at least in wellness, than we are, because we operate in over 40 countries. We operate in all seven continents, and so we've got people from all walks of life that are operating our fitness centers or working with our ministers or working as vendors. We're very, very rich in diversity and uh opportunities for for everybody. And so I'm super, super proud of that.

SPEAKER_04:

I love that. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02:

Ryan? All right, Chuck. So there's a lot in the uh in the fitness industry. So right now you're an investor, and what's a brand, a vertical in the in the space that you would love to have in your portfolio that you don't have right now?

SPEAKER_00:

Ooh, um, I I don't I don't really want to name aims for Zook, but I'm telling you, the there are so many opportunities and what I'd call longevity, anti-aging. Um, you know, it's it's a kind of a new, but there's so much fragmentation, and I'd say there's a whole lot of players out there, and eventually there are going to be some winners. And so we're giving this time to let them let's see who the winners are. We're just at the size now. We're I mean, if you if you're not at five or ten million dollars in EBITDA or something, if you don't have some scale and some some proven portability, we're just not ready yet. But I'm keeping an eye on this space, probably for personal reasons too, is at my age, right? And longevity and and and like you, I want to look good. Um, and so I I do I do like that personal wellness kind of longevity space. And so we're just keeping an eye on that.

SPEAKER_01:

You know what's incredible to me, Chuck, is that um uh so every at least four days a week, I begin my day at a franchise called Sweathouse, where I do sauna and cold plunge. Absolutely. And when I travel, I look for sweathouse or something similar. And even like, you know, we were we were in San Diego and Los Angeles, I couldn't find anything. I'm like, come on, these are like these are places that should be embracing new trends. Um, and you see so many people now have cold plunges and saunas in their homes. Why do you think that perhaps this sector is being adopted uh, I guess, more slowly than than maybe we would expect it to grow?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you know, I first of all, I think you're finding it the big box clubs now are putting this inside their stores. I mean, there are some hotels doing it. Obviously, the democratization of this, you can have it at your home are are coming that way. Um, you know, I think it's a niche offering. I think there are some savvier investors who are like, hey, look, how does this play out? Maybe through an economic recession. I mean, it's not a cheap price point for the consumer. You know, what do they start to cut if they look at their spending? And so I think some of the maybe the savier money is kind of waiting on the sidelines to make sure this is durable and sustainable through different economic cycles. So, and there are just so many opportunities out there in recovery and fitness and wellness and anti-aging. So I just think the fragmentation of offerings, it just means that we're all just, you know, trying to like find more and more prospects open, which means that you know different brands are opening a little bit slower.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you know, Peter Atia was saying on his podcast relative to cold plunges, he said, Look, I don't know what the long-term benefits are, but I know that I feel much better after I do it. Um, I know that it sort of steals me for the day. And and that's what I felt too, that on the days where I do it, I just, you know, again, I I see it in my resting heart rate, which stays lower the rest of the day. And it does by doing those hard things, it kind of chills laughing at me. She's like, Why are you always talking about this?

SPEAKER_00:

So the fact that I would do a cold plunge isn't as crazy. Exactly. It'll be cold deer very, very soon. You know what? But that's what's frustrating. Go back to the earlier point. Like, now I've heard like cold plunge for someone who's already in shape is it doesn't do as good. And there's just so much information out there. I mean, look, if it makes you feel good mentally and you're seeing some results physically, then keep doing it. As Joe mentioned earlier, there's something for everybody. So wherever you are in your journey, I mean, snack, dabble, try, explore, find something that fits you. And guess what? It may work now for the next three, six, nine months. And then you can, the good news is there's so many offerings you can try something else. And so that's why there's never been a better time to be a consumer. There's just so much to try and do.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, David, you're up.

SPEAKER_03:

No, this is this is great. I love this type of podcast because you're speaking my love like my love language. Um, I'm the same way. I've I've tried it all. I did bodybuilding, I was eating seven, eight times a day, and then now I'm doing one meal a day. I feel great with one meal a day, but then I get I get starved, I'm starving and switching back and forth, but I digress. Um you've always emphasized culture over hype. How do you keep that message resonating with the younger entrepreneurs entering the fitness franchise?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh man, that's a great question. So uh what I'm proud of too is that Dave and I have made the leap from founder to leader. You don't get many leaders or founders who have been in the brand this long as it really scales and also takes on private equity money. Um, they just can't make that leap. You know, founders run a startup differently than how they need to run a large-scale mature brand. So we've had to continually kind of reinvent ourselves and to you know develop ourselves as leaders. Um, you know, obviously you want to listen, you want to be very, very self-aware. Um, you want to surround yourself with people who are kind of helping you along the way. Um, but for us in culture, I mean, we're very intentional about it. Hopefully, it's authentic to who you are. I've always had to like be very, very clear on over communication. I think in today's noisy world, all of your stakeholders are bombarded with noise. And so, how do you cut through that? And so, we've done so many different ways to communicate with our with our stakeholders, annual conferences, vitals, town hall meetings, internal podcasts. I do all-staff emails. In fact, in the book here, I share some of the favorite all-staff emails I've had over the years. I really consider them as like love letters from a CEO to their stakeholders. And so, communication. I mean, listen, listen to your ears bleed, especially in franchising. You have to make sure your franchisees feel heard and understood. Look at all the data, consumer data, franchise data, where are the trends, what's going on, and then listen to your team, and then you've got to form a point of view. You know, get some smart people in the room and help you prioritize and go. So for me, it's always about listening, always about taking in information first, and then you know, charting your plan of attack and then communicating. Not just what's going on in the business, but I'm a big-time believer in you know, being a bit vulnerable and talking about life issues with our stakeholders, not just business issues. And I think that's one of you know the hearts and minds of our of our stakeholders.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. Terrific. All right, Morgan, last but not least.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, it's just something that was on my mind while you were talking. We have a friend, Catherine and I in California, that's opening an 80,000 square foot pickleball center, which was a little shocking. Um, so my question to you is do you feel that there are any fitness trends that are just not going to be able to be around in five, 10 years?

SPEAKER_00:

That's a good question. Uh, you know, Pilates is having an incredible moment right now, and I think long-term Pilates here to stay. I think yoga is making a comeback. Strength training has always stood the test of time. I mean, I just, you know, I can't imagine people are not gonna want to continue to lift weights for strength and for all those uh all those longevity and health reasons. I don't want to name names, but I think there are some very, very small niche offerings today within fitness that maybe are very like a sliver of a modality. I just, you know, being a subscale brand in that category, I just don't think, and they're very, very trendy today. I don't think they're gonna last. I just I hesitate to name those brands, but I I can see some in fitness and even some, frankly, in uh the longevity space that I think are just too narrow and at a price point where I just don't think they're gonna sustain themselves over time.

SPEAKER_01:

I think the number one guidance we can give as franchise consultants to people who are exploring franchises is when we look at for a franchise. Do I need it? And do I need it a lot? As we look at those franchises that get the highest valuations, we see that recurring revenue. Uh, we see that great branding, and we see that profitability. And certainly with Anytime Fitness and with all the brands you have at Purpose, um, they fit that bill.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you guys know, look, we've always been long-term thinkers, we've always reinvested in the brand. Dave and I have always like, how do we get better capabilities to help our franchisees succeed? I mean, the most important accelerant in the flywheel of franchising is unit level performance. If your franchisees make money, everything else takes care of itself. They will buy more territories, we refer more people, and the growth happens. And so we've always been franchisee focused, the current franchisees. And then, yes, we want to add white space, we want to sell territories. But first and foremost, help your franchisees ramp the business, be successful, and I promise you the growth will happen.

SPEAKER_01:

That's awesome. Chuck, this has been so great. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time. If you don't mind for the listeners, what's the name of your guys' new book? One more time.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh it is called Fanchise Your Franchise. Um, you can find me on LinkedIn at Chuck Runyon. I'm on Instagram at Chuck Runyon. You, if anyone's interested in the book, they can email uh purpose. No, I'm sorry, wait, franchise at purposebrands.com. Fanchise at purposebrands.com. In fact, you guys, if you don't mind, send me your home addresses at franchise at purposebrands.com and I'll send you guys a book. I'd love for you to read it. Um we are just look, we love health and fitness. We also love franchising. I mean, my gosh, this has provided opportunities for people. You know, for the last 75 years, it's been one of the great unlock for people with generational wealth and opportunities and you know, franchises of all types. And so I love this industry. Globally, I can tell you it is growing and better than ever. I'm so excited where this is going. And so Dave and I spent a lot of time. Dave's a member of the International Franchise Association. He's on their board. So we are promoting and protecting the franchise industry. We're promoting and protecting the wellness industry. And so we just care deeply about opportunities for people and helping them unlock personal growth, purpose, and generational wealth.

SPEAKER_01:

That is so well said. And for all of you listening, please do visit us at thefranchiseinsiders.com. If you'd like to learn more about any of the franchises that Purpose Brands has, I encourage you to go to our team page to learn about our team. Learn about Catherine, Brian, David, Morgan, and now Jay and Carolina. All of our friends, all of our consultants have been top five franchise owners uh in their system. Um, multiple uh consultants on our team have had successful exits. So please do go learn about our team and whoever you want to work with, we'd love to help you. Go to thefranchiseinsiders.com. And for this week on We Bought a Franchise, I'm Jack Johnson.

SPEAKER_06:

I'm Jill Johnson.

SPEAKER_01:

And we'll talk to you next time. Thanks, everybody.