Movie RX
Dr. Benjamin prescribes movies that help and heal through his own experiences or the experiences of others.
Movie RX
Instant Family (2018) ft. Jamie & Hannah
Have you ever wondered about the emotional rollercoaster of adopting foster children? Join us on this episode of MovieRx where my niece Hannah, my sister Jamie, and I dive into the heartfelt and humorous nuances of the film "Instant Family." Inspired by director Sean Anders' personal adoption journey. Hannah shares her admiration for Isabella Merced's portrayal of Lizzie, and Jamie gives props to Mark Wahlberg for stepping out of his typical roles. Join us for an episode filled with resilience, love, and deeply personal insights that will resonate with anyone touched by the world of fostering and adoption.
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Today's episode of MovieRx contains a lot of very real conversation about very real people and real life experiences surrounding trauma, children in the foster care system and adoption. Please take the care that you need for yourself if triggered by these topics and be well. Hello and welcome to MovieRx, where I prescribe entertainment, one movie at a time. I am your host, dr Benjamin PhD. What does the PhD stand for? Parenting's hard dude? I'm glad. I'm glad I got a little bit of laugh out of that.
Speaker 3:Wait.
Speaker 1:That's all I'm asking for.
Speaker 3:That would be my PhD right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pretty much that's okay. Yeah, pretty much that's okay. People are hard dude, that works.
Speaker 3:I will take that, that's universal.
Speaker 1:All right, that's one of my guests. So I have two guests in studio today. First I have my niece, Hannah. Say hi, Hannah. Hi and I also have my sister, her mom.
Speaker 3:Jamie, hey, I'm here Again.
Speaker 1:Again. Uh, so welcome back Jamie and welcome Hannah. Today we're looking at a movie that actually kind of hits close to home, uh, in my family and uh, in some ways, my work Uh, and that's why I have my family today. Today we're talking about instant family. Kind of like to talk about the technical stuff first, so I'll just go first as far as technically goes. Film-wise the cinematography isn't anything real, all that special or anything. The music is kind of what you'd expect from what would you call this? A dramedy?
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, yeah, that's a good, yeah, it's kind of a dramedy.
Speaker 1:The music is light and sweet when it needs to be and it's, uh, quite frankly, hilarious at some points.
Speaker 3:but can we call it a drum com?
Speaker 1:Drum com. Okay, I Can we call it a drum com. Drum com Okay, I suppose we could call it a drum com.
Speaker 3:That would be fine, please tell me I just coined that phrase and now I can make millions. That would be awesome.
Speaker 1:I've never heard it, but I can't say that it's not something that's been done somewhere, drum com.
Speaker 2:That's good Drum com.
Speaker 1:I like it, but yeah, the thing that really stands out with this movie really is the story and the acting, which a really cool, fun fact about the story in this movie is that it's inspired by the director's adopting of three foster children.
Speaker 3:I knew it was based on a true story, but I didn't know who's true story, so yeah, that's cool Director himself.
Speaker 1:I mean it's. I guess it's very loosely based on it things were added for dramatic effect.
Speaker 3:Right, that's usually how those go probably more added for humor yeah, maybe um, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So uh, I mean, what would you guys think of the movie technically?
Speaker 4:we'll start with hannah um, I guess what stood out to me was lizzie's acting like, especially at the end of the movie, when they were like you know, your mom isn't coming, she's not ready for this, like you could just you couldn't even tell that she was acting like. It literally looked like she was actually feeling what the character would feel, if that makes sense yeah she's.
Speaker 1:She's kind of a new standout. What is her name? I don't even know her name yet. That's how kind of new she is for me Isabella Merced.
Speaker 4:That name doesn't sound familiar.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's been in some other fun things. She was in Transformers the last night she was in Sicario. She was also Dora in dora the explorer she would make a perfect dora.
Speaker 3:No wonder they picked her for that yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, she would make a perfect sassy dora, like she would make the kind of dora that that swiper would not fuck with. I mean, if we're, if we're being really honest here, cause, like she got some dude man Reminds me of, reminds me of another, uh, another teenage girl I knew once.
Speaker 3:Oh well, maybe I got a ha there. Um doomsday Dora doomsday Dora.
Speaker 1:So what about you, Jamie? Does anything technical stand out for you in this movie?
Speaker 3:You know, I think this was the first movie. I think I saw Mark Wahlberg not doing the usual Mark Wahlberg stuff Not doing the Mark Wahlberg thing, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so this was I mean this was a really cool movie in that way, because it just was, um, that really stood out to me. Um, and you know, I think I think the other piece of it was the absolute rich texture of all of the characters. Um, like, all the foster parents added such a cool backdrop to, you know, as far as adding to the personality of foster care you know what I'm saying Like, right.
Speaker 1:When we get to characters, they are a character of their own, like the whole support group is. Um, no, I I totally agree with you on the Mark Wahlberg thing. Basically what I put down in my notes for for him was that Marky Mark was at his best in a more average role, you know, not being the tough guy, not being the crazy guy. I haven't seen him do a role like this since and even then it's nicer than it was in A Perfect Storm.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think he did fantastic in this movie. It really showed a different side of his abilities. But, yeah, I suppose I should probably give all of the basic info on this thing. The movie was released in 2018, directed by Sean Anders. He was the director that wrote the story that was inspired by his own adoption experience. Sean Anders did movies like that's my Boy, horrible Bosses 2, daddy's Home. He's done some family stuff already. Stars Mark Wahlberg, rose Byrne, isabella Merced those are the poster names, but I cannot talk about a movie that has Octavia Spencer in it and not mention her name. You know who Octavia Spencer is.
Speaker 3:Oh, um Sharon.
Speaker 1:Uh, karen, she was the one that was in like the help and she was in uh the NASA movie.
Speaker 3:Oh, um something figures hidden figures hidden figures yeah, also did like a horror film too, didn't she recently like?
Speaker 1:she's done everything like it's. It's amazing to me how much she pops up and it's like just surprise, there she is and like it, she instantly makes the movie better. And speaking of the help, there's actually a reference in there that I don't know if it was intended, but I'm pretty sure it was. Ellie was was looking for lizzie and lizzie comes out from that weird woman's yard. Yeah, the weird woman offered to have him in for pie and she was like yes, we will have some, I love pie. Like it was like oh, that's funny.
Speaker 3:I hadn't put those together actually. So thank you for pointing that out, cause I hadn't. I hadn't made that connection, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good stuff and you're going to hate this, cause you always do, but the IMDB description.
Speaker 3:Bring on the IMDB description yes.
Speaker 1:I'm, I'm, I'm with you on this one, though this one really sucks. A couple find themselves in over their heads when they foster three children. Boom, yep that's it. Wow.
Speaker 3:Right. Does that make you want to buy three tickets, Hannah?
Speaker 1:I feel like there's a few words missing, like heartfelt or you know anything. Odyssey yeah, that's what they have. That's what they have.
Speaker 3:You know what I have decided? I have decided that IMDB needs to start using chat GPT.
Speaker 1:Oh, that could also be disastrous though.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm telling you every time I put anything into chat GPT, suddenly we are on voyages through the depths of despair, Like it just adds all these colorful words, journeys and voyages and epics. They should incorporate chat GPpt into their workflow over there, because that might help yeah, the jokes on us, they already do.
Speaker 1:So why don't we just go ahead and jump right into the characters? Tell me about pete and ellie. We'll have jamie. Talk about pete and ell.
Speaker 3:Oh, pete and Allie, there were so many pieces because I just rewatched it. I haven't seen it for a couple of years. I'm rewatching it again. You know, in prep for this it was like all of these little things kind of popped out at me, like how they're so hopeful and kind of blind and totally do that whole, like, oh, this is going to be a challenge. And they're like, oh, we know, we know, we know Right, but it's not really going to be a challenge, like we're just going to ignore it.
Speaker 3:I also thought it was fascinating about how how they're trying to be so perfect and in doing that, they mess it up all the time, like they say the wrong things and they do the wrong things because they're so worried about doing it wrong, like trying to get it right. Um, and I remember that feeling sitting in our foster care class doing the same thing, like really measuring what I had to say and really monitoring what I said before I said it Cause I didn't want to not get a license before we even finished the class, right, I didn't want to get kicked out. So, um, I think what's fascinating is how, how their motives like you can see their motive shift throughout the movie.
Speaker 3:Um yeah, yeah. And in the beginning, I you know when, when Lizzie asked Ellie like why did you, why did you take us? You know like, why did you pick us? And she didn't have an answer for that. And then by the end it was like when it was possible that they weren't going to be able to be together, it was like then she figured it out, she knew exactly why they were there, you know which was kind of cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was probably one of the moments that I really had to stop. I actually paused the movie when she asked her why are you doing this, why are you adopting us? And she stammered a bunch and she was like, yeah, exactly, you know, and walked away. I had to pause it for a second and be like of all of the reasons that people say that they're adopting. What way would that be okay for kids Like, well, we want to adopt because we want to fill a hole in our lives. Well, I mean, if you ask a kid who was in foster care, would that make you feel good? I want you to be a part of my family, to make my life whole. Does that make it seem selfish to you, or is that like that?
Speaker 4:like I mean, I guess it's kind of like 50 50, but it's more like you're doing it for your own benefit and not mine, if that makes sense, yeah so it wouldn't be unusual for a kid to feel that way, and that that's kind of what went through my head with that was.
Speaker 1:you know, lizzie? Lizzie has got to be thinking that these people are not doing this for me, these people are not doing this for my brother and sister. These people are, that's enough.
Speaker 3:Moxie has something to say too. She was recently adopted as well, so she may have something to add to this conversation. No, no, no, just lay down.
Speaker 1:Ok, I'm shaking, no, ben, anyway, so, um, so, yeah, I mean, there's gotta be times where it goes through a kid's head that you know that you're not doing this for you, you're not, or you're not doing this for me, You're not doing this for my brother and sister, you're doing this for you, and, and all of these things. You think that I have to do this. You know like I can stop this at any time, and then you can go back with the muskies, which, by the way, just so everybody's on the same page those people were actually married, the creepy foster family that they came from.
Speaker 3:Well, she's an actress. I mean, I've seen her in other things, but I had never seen him before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those, those are actually husband and wife. That's crazy. And they do look like brother and sister. It's so weird. But yeah, it's uh. Yeah, that's a real thing. But yeah, I mean, she could totally at any time have been like I don't want to do this anymore, you can go home. I don't know that it was right for her to throw that at a, you know, 15 year old girl, but there were several times where I was just like oh no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:And in that moment, even, even in that scene, I'm like don't mess this up. Don't mess this up. You know, she needs to hear the right thing from you right now.
Speaker 1:Oh no, Pete and Ellie. Like it was really fun to watch their struggles because that's that's what made the movie interesting was their struggles. But, um, but at the same time, like I, I really loved how their how their struggles were also, um, they brought in that awkwardness that people will sometimes have in those situations where they say the wrong thing but it's because they don't know the right way to say those right things. Next on the list I got lizzie, juan and lita to get somebody's perspective on three foster kids and in a fos adopt situation. I should probably get it from an opinion of somebody who's been there. So, hannah, tell me about Lizzie, juan and Lita.
Speaker 4:Well, I just think that Lizzie was like this cute little girl that had just so much you know, punk and sass, and was just the cutest thing. And I felt like Juan I kind of related to a little bit, because I've talked to my mom and she just said that when I first came into her care I was just this scared little girl that just sat on the couch and didn't know what to do at all and just watched Isaiah rummage around the house and act like a crazy kid and you were, you were timid, you were all kinds of timid.
Speaker 1:Uh, when you first came in, except when it came to electronics. You took to electronics like nothing, like tablets and laptops. Do you, do you remember that first night?
Speaker 4:Jamie, oh, I don't.
Speaker 1:When she was yes.
Speaker 3:I re. I also remember her affinity for a Kindle and yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, there were. There were definitely, especially in the beginning. There were definitely some Juan things about, about Hannah. I do remember that Lita, though I don't think that she really had much of Lita until later.
Speaker 3:Oh, I was gonna say when she came back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what do you think of lita?
Speaker 4:oh, I think I got the name switched around in the beginning. I totally did, because I meant to say lita was just like this, like this sassy girl, and she was just what my way, or the highway, you know, is the type of attitude that came across off. So potato chips yes, potato chips or nothing yes, so, okay.
Speaker 1:So that was lita, what about? What about lizzie?
Speaker 4:lizzie. I kind of connected with more because, as it went on, like my mom was just this annoying person that was just always on me and oh my gosh, just leave me alone. And oh, she doesn't know anything, but in the end she was always right about everything, which is hard for me to say, but it.
Speaker 3:Just that is on recorded history. People, that is, it is it's.
Speaker 4:It's on the internet, so it's not going anywhere now yeah, it just made me really sad, especially at the end, like that whole situation again where they were like liz, izzy, your mom isn't coming, like she's not ready. It just kind of made me realize like some people just aren't fit to be parents, you know, and some people really never do change as much as they want to change. And yeah, I don't know, it just kind of struck a chord for me there at the end. Yeah, but everything does happen for a reason.
Speaker 3:You know what's interesting and what I saw in that time too, miss Hannah, is sometimes that challenge that I saw for you in loyalty and still caring for and loving your bio family and loving your adoptive family and how, how hard that was for you. Sometimes that's I. That was the part that I actually cried because it did feel like those times, you know, sometimes with you and I, and how challenging that was for you to to have those feelings for both places and struggle with that, that dual loyalty. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's why it was hard, because it's that loyalty and that trust and then it gets broken and then you're left there to fix it by yourself. Well, not by yourself, but like the person that betrayed your trust or didn't do the things that they said they would do aren't there and you have to rely on someone else to help you.
Speaker 1:The next one that I got here, uh, on the list is karen and sharon, and and we already talked a little bit about karen now I I feel like that karen and sharon are almost they're almost the the muses telling the story. Yeah, because they, they kind of guide everything along throughout the movie and I mean they, they give you a lot of back information. It's almost like they feed you some understanding of what's going on, but within the context of the movie, and so it's almost like they're narrating the story. But I really like the way they did it. I also think that Karen would probably be the case manager that people would like more, because she was very real with with those foster families.
Speaker 3:Well, I love how she kind of balanced out the need, like the needs of the job. Like you know, you have to have some, you have to have some real hard hitting honesty and you also have to have some um some tact. Yeah yeah, like tact and and courtesy and and things like that. It was kind of an interesting mix, the two of them for me the best. The best scene with either one of them, though, was when Mark Wahlberg, like, was making fun of Sharon's kid.
Speaker 3:Oh, god, yes, and actually making fun of her. That's really not a fair assessment of that. But, like when he was like I don't know, I tried to connect with this one kid and I'm pretty sure they tied her to a radiator and she's like yeah, that's my, that's my daughter, thank you.
Speaker 1:Like and she was. She was not apologetic about it either like she was like yeah, and, by the way, I haven't had a drop of alcohol while I was pregnant with her.
Speaker 3:Like and we don't have a radiator. Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those foot and mouth moments were perfect with those two.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, they had so many of them too. They were everywhere.
Speaker 1:The blindside lady October.
Speaker 3:That was great to October, and I'll tell you what, though, from my perspective, it is exactly how it is, because you always feel like you're kind of tiptoeing because you don't want to. You don't want to mess anything up. You don't want to. You know, I I often. I often tell people that when I was a licensed foster parent, if I had a drop of alcohol three days ago, I wasn't going to drive my car Because I knew if I were to get pulled over it would be foster parent, caught with DUI or something like that. You know what I mean. You feel like you're so responsible for so much more than than the average person that it really, it really does feel a little bit like walking on eggshells for everything, because you have to really protect that and be careful with it.
Speaker 1:This is probably something that's talked about more in in our last character on the list, like the support groups and stuff like that for foster parents. When you really get down to it, you are being trusted with someone else's children. Stop and think about everything you do. You think about every move you make, every Facebook post you're getting ready to make, every Instagram photo. You're getting ready to put up everything that you're going to do. You have to stop and think to yourself is this okay for the children? It really does kind of change your whole life.
Speaker 3:What does?
Speaker 4:that. Look for Hannah. Oh, you know, we've just talked about the whole boundaries and Facebook thing, Not between you and I. Never mind, I'm like what do you mean.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, yes, yes, never mind. Oh, yes, yes. So like family boundaries and facebook? Yes, yeah, okay, within the household, usually those, those rules and everything are all kind of established and everything outside of the home, uh, sometimes there's some blurred lines. Yeah, I remember that kind of being a thing, but you guys did a pretty good job managing most of it.
Speaker 3:So we tried. We usually figured it out eventually.
Speaker 1:Right, well, I mean Hannah's 20 and she's still alive. So I mean, you figured out?
Speaker 4:quite a bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Mission accomplished.
Speaker 1:The last character I have is the support group and I I think that the support group was really important. The support group, along with all the rest of the characters I felt like really kind of made, made this whole movie almost like a PSA for fostering. Because in the support group you had the good Christianian family that wanted to, you know, adopt one small child to, you know, to make their whole life, you know, something amazing and share what god has blessed them with. Uh, you had the gay couple that obviously can't have their own children and so they're there to adopt, so that they can share in the joy of having a family. Um, you have the mom that couldn't conceive. Uh, that that was, that was very hurtful for her, you know. And then you had the mom that Sandra Bullock.
Speaker 1:You wanted Sandra Bullock. You know she she wanted to have. You know she wanted to have a kid that she could drive um, that she could make be the best that they could be. Then you had Marky Mark and his funky woman doing their thing. They're doing it almost in the arms of an angel, like the Humane Society kind of commercials on late night TV where they looked at some pictures their hearts broke and then they decided to foster. You know, that was.
Speaker 3:That was one of the things and and I think that was one of the fascinating things about this is all the different motivations that were in there and they there's, uh, there's kind of bothered me a little bit, if I'm being honest, because it was a it's, it was an emotional decision, like they made a decision based on, you know, seeing sad puppies on in the arms of the angel infomercials at night. You know what I mean. Like it was such an emotional thing.
Speaker 1:And then even when they decided to take the placement of the three kids, it was to prove their family wrong, and so I'm glad you brought that up because I am, I'm going to take that and I'm going to and I'm going to kind of shove it back at you a little bit here. Okay.
Speaker 1:Because that was initially what I was upset about. I was like you know, that's, that's, that's bullshit. Snapple, you can't say that. Oh, you guys are, all you know, being mean to me because you know you thought that it was a horrible decision for me to do this, but I think what they did I'm going to qualify this with her response to all of the horrible things that they had said to her about why she shouldn't have done it.
Speaker 1:When she was going back at them, she was telling them things like look, I am here at a family dinner. I am here on Thanksgiving to have something to be thankful for, though I don't know why I am right now with the way that you people are talking to me, but there are people out there who don't. There are people out there, there are kids out there who don't have a place to be, they don't have things to be thankful for and they don't have families to be there to share it with them. And that changed it, like when, when I really recognized that she was, it was her realizing that her decision to do it was one thing and then their decision to not do it was selfish and then it turned back around into being something that was. It was again for the kids.
Speaker 3:Well, and quite frankly, I think I think the reason that that that got to me a little bit is because I think humans are fundamentally selfish. I think, you know, fundamentally we are self-serving people and when I started, it was definitely because it was because it's something I wanted, you know, and I never stopped to think about is this something that the kids would want? Is this something that's best for them? You know what I mean and so I definitely I know that over all the years that I, that I did foster and before I adopted, there was a lot of shifting that happened in me and a lot of learning and growth that happened. And the focus, definitely after that first placement, you know, it really did become. It became a service and not not self-service, but it really it kind of bothered me watching that, you know like okay, no, no, no, you don't get to have a fight with your family and then be like, oh yeah, well, we're going to foster three kids.
Speaker 3:You know, that really bugged me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that ultimately their reasons. I do think that it was still with good intention, not in that crappy way where it's you know the road is.
Speaker 3:I was going to say you know what they say about.
Speaker 3:Well, and I quite frankly that, truthfully, to me, that's the, that's. The moral of the story is that, yeah, I, every single person in that room, had good intentions, even you know Sandra Bullock, she, she, it wasn't. It wasn't. Yes, was there some self-serving purpose there? She wanted to be a good human. You know, she wanted to feel like a good person and, you know, help a kid who had no chance succeed succeed. But, um, you know, I think I think if we're not careful, it's really easy to get stuck in that and it's really important that that, that focus of I want to feel like a good person, I want to feel like I did the right thing, I want to know that I, that I did my part, or something like that. If it doesn't shift to I want to make sure that these kids have everything they need and are prepared for moving forward, then you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 1:Right, no, I get it. Wow, that was a lot for the support group.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I could go on about the support group. Like all the people in the characters, I loved how we didn't have that, we did not have a support group like that. Um, when, when I was fostering, and how helpful that would have been even to have somebody that I felt comfortable enough to call up and be like, okay, this is happening in the case and I don't understand this. Can you explain it to me? Um, I have a ton of social worker friends now and I think it's because of all the time that I spent on phone on the phone with social workers saying I don't get this, Please explain this to me, but to have a peer to support me through that would have been super helpful. Plus, you know those kids are connected too, because guess where the kids are during support group? They're all hanging out in another room in the building. You know, Right, it was cool how they were together, how they um, they, they came together frequently for their meetings, but then they were all there for the adoption, and you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:It just really they were there for the family picture every single member, every single one of them kid, and all of them were in in the picture. It was awesome. It was so cool. Because, it takes a village, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's a different kind of village.
Speaker 1:So now we kind of get into the meat of everything and I kind of created a little bit of a list based on all of the talking points that we had kind of built in, that we had all put together.
Speaker 1:I had already said one of them that I kind of felt like that this, this whole movie, was like a PSA for fostering, mostly because it showed you some of the good, some of the, some of the challenge, some of the you know, all of those things. But I mean it was. It touched on all the different reasons why attached and things like that, with their family at Thanksgiving, when you know, when they said that they weren't going to do it anymore and everybody started, well, behind your back, we were all thinking this, which that's just awful, but it kind of brought to mind the things that people don't say about foster care and adoption and things like that, you know. And then one of the other ones that Hannah had put in there was, you know how, how people have this aversion to adopting teenagers. Um well, I mean you've been there, jamie, can I mean, do you have any sort of insight as to as to why people would be apprehensive about adopting teenagers?
Speaker 3:Well, isn't there some like scientific studies about how babies have big eyes and big heads? Because it makes our hearts swell and love them, you know.
Speaker 3:I suppose, we fall in love with our babies because they're they're cute and they, they cause those you know brain chemicals to be great, and then that helps us get through the teenage years great, and then that helps us get through the teenage years. And you know, I think that there were times, even for me, where my kids are teenagers and we're struggling and I would go back to those pictures of when they were little and remember all of those sweet things and those sweet connections we had, because that's what helps us get through that. And you know, for a teenager to come into a situation where there isn't that bond and there isn't that connection or that history, that shared history, it would be really difficult, it would be hard not to have something to fall back on, to have that connection, and I experienced that it was hard with a teenager, right? I?
Speaker 1:experienced that it was hard with a teenager. So Right Now, hannah, did you, did you ever feel any sort of a thing from peers or anything people around you was? Was that ever something that you, that you had to deal with, people with the stigmas, but from the other end, like that's not your real family or you know that's not your blood or anything like that? Was that ever anything on your end with the people around you?
Speaker 4:I think the frequent, the most frequent thing that happened was I would show people like a picture of me and Isaiah together and you could just tell by the look on their face, like how is that your brother? Like, how is that your brother? And then, like I would have to explain like you know, we were both adopted from separate families but he's still my brother, even if we're not blood related. And I guess, as time went on, that just kind of irritated me because it just happened like constantly and so, yeah, because when I was younger, like pictures of Gary, my mom, mom, isaiah and I none of us looked alike and so it was just kind of I just had to explain that all the time.
Speaker 1:And yeah, but no, I think that was about it. Are there any things that you would say are things that are shared between foster kids and adopted kids and adopted kids, things that, um, like cause, I mean, there's the. There's the thing that that a lot of foster parents and adoptive parents go through where you know people are like, well, since they're adopted, you know, you don't know what kind of history they have and, and so because of that, you don't know what they're going to grow up like and all of that stuff. Um, is there any stuff like that for, like, foster kids and adoptive kids, where they, where they go, where you guys would get together in a room and be like, well, you know, all foster parents and adoptive parents think that they, you know, think that they're perfect parents because they've all had training or you know. Anything like that Is that?
Speaker 4:you know, I really wish, but I think one of the things I would change is I wish I knew more people that were adopted, because most of my friends, all of my friends, none of them were adopted Right. So, yeah, it wasn't really something I could connect with anybody on, which is why I tried to talk to Isaiah about it, but Isaiah is not the most open person, as you know.
Speaker 1:Well then, when he's your brother.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a totally different thing. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So is that something that you think that you think might be helpful? Because you know there are communities that have places for parents to go, that you know that they can get together and talk about and compare those things. You know that they can get together and talk about and compare those things. Do you think it would be beneficial for kids who are adopted to go and spend time with other kids who are adopted and just have like almost like a youth group sort of night or, jamie, like your wellness cafe thing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, like a support group sort of. Thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for kids that you know that are adopted or in foster care.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it would totally help because it would make me feel less alone, like someone else is going through the same thing, like this wasn't because of me, this wasn't because of anything I did, and it's just a different type of support for someone else that's going through the same thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that that would probably be something that would be beneficial all around. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know there's some balance there. I think that that would probably be something that would be beneficial all around. Yeah, you know there's some balance there. I think that I don't know if it's necessarily stigma still, but when we started fostering, it's almost like the drive was to make sure that we didn't talk about it. You know what I mean. Like we wanted the kids to feel as normal as any other kid, and so we didn't talk about the foster care part of it ever, and I can see how that might have caused some challenges, because then it's like okay, is that a problem? Is that? Does that mean there's something wrong with me? Or you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:And then there's that you know that privacy piece of it too, where part of why we didn't talk about it a whole lot is because there's, you know, it's not my job to do anything but protect her story and let her story be her story and not, you know, let her share her story and not do that for her. And so I think there's there's some weird balance, balance-y things in that that. That that makes me think of. So I wonder, I wonder, how, how do you balance those things where you know we don't want to parade kids around as being hey look, this is the local foster kid. But at the same time, you know, help them not feel isolated and alone, like there's something wrong with them, because there are other kids that experience that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, I think it would be a fine balance too. I mean, cause there's there's also the challenges of um. You know, if it, if it's still in foster and not adopt, I mean, then you run into the challenges of privacy and and confidentiality and the bio family and whether the bio family feels that it's necessary and things like that.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, there's a lot of challenges there, but I still think that that would be something places could look into, providing at least the option, even if it's just a few, like Hannah said, it could be really beneficial to some kids. So I kind of interjected into into all of our points, uh, for our favorite things in the movie. Uh, I, I looked at, I looked at this and I was like I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to dox anybody or anything. But I feel like there were some moments in in your experience with all of the kids in your home and everything, the the Christmas dinner where, where everything's fine and then it's not fine, and then Lita screams. And then in comes Christmas in Sarajevo, you know that and like you've got kids that are, you know, like freaking out. And then she pops up from underneath the table holding a SpongeBob knife covered in ketchup, looking like Carrie and everybody's, everybody's just on edge. I feel like you had some of those experiences Maybe, maybe not so much with with Hannah and Isaiah. They were.
Speaker 4:Oh, yes, we did.
Speaker 1:Okay, hannah, tell me about that.
Speaker 4:I don't remember what we were fighting about. It was something, but I you know, it was in my teenage years when me and my mom were no, I'm right, no, I'm right, that kind of sort of thing, oh God I know what we're going to talk about, and she was eating an enchilada and I ticked her off to the point so bad where she took it and she just threw it. And a couple of years later we, you know, moved the couch and there was just enchilada sauce behind the couch on the wall.
Speaker 4:Like it literally swung that far.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cause that was that enchilada that we made for you, Jamie. We made a vegan enchilada.
Speaker 3:Well, I work with, I work with other parents, and that is often my moment of shame and relatability. I don't remember what we were fighting about either, um, but that was definitely definitely not a proud moment.
Speaker 1:Well, and but it's a human moment, like I mean that brings in the whole, uh, you know, the circle of security thing. You know that kids don't need a perfect parent. Uh, I mean, that's a really good, a really good story to show that, you know, even parents aren't always perfect and they don't have to be, and it can still. It can still leave room for a really good relationship and and I mean that doesn't even require blood relation or or adoption or anything like that. But uh, but yeah, I completely forgot about the, about the, the whole enchilada.
Speaker 3:Thanks for outing me on, you know, international internet waves or something.
Speaker 1:Well, hopefully it'll help somebody, Jamie, to understand that chucking an enchilada is not the end of parenting.
Speaker 3:Well, and that the truth of the matter is, and the reason I do often share that story is because it it really taught me the importance of the repair. You know, I I made a mistake and I did. I did this human thing in human feelings and anger and hurt or whatever it was that happened, and if I had just left it there, I don't know that Hannah and I would be sitting here on your podcast today. You know, thankfully I had enough people around me to teach me about repairing, to be able to make that right with Hannah and to be able to explain what I wish I would have done differently and how that isn't, that isn't my best and and she deserves my best. You know what I mean. So those are. I'll tell you what, though?
Speaker 3:The Christmas, the Christmas scene in this movie almost made me cry, because Christmas was one of the hardest times I think every year for the entirety of our foster and adoption journey, because you know even me, you know, our mom passed away and Christmas is hard for me as an adult, you know, wishing that I could have those those times with my mom and wishing I could go back to that space and and have those memories and those, you know, those moments with her, and I know that that's been a challenge for all of the kids that we've had over the holidays, because that's it's what we do. You know, christmas makes us want to be home, right? So I think that that, um, that's a hard time of year for us, um, and you know, even as we, as, as our family's gotten older and the kids are adults, and things like that, you know, I, I think, watching that, watching that play out there, I remember our very first Christmas with foster kids. Um, I went so overboard, it wasn't even funny, and I paid the price for that, um, because it backfired, because those kids were angry that their parents couldn't do that for them. That you know it, it.
Speaker 3:I don't know what all of the thoughts and feelings were, but there were a lot of thoughts and feelings about that and it it caused lots of problems for a couple months of nonstop. You know difficulty, and so I think, um, you know it was a lesson and I don't know that I learned it very quickly, but Christmas was hard, um, holidays were hard, birthdays were hard, um, you know those times where we want to be around the people that we love, you know, not only is it hard for kids, but it's hard for us, because you know we're just trying to fill the gap and you know, do what we can. But it's just a. It's a. I think that's a hard thing that people don't think about.
Speaker 1:I think that holidays in general, even even all the way down to birthdays, I mean especially especially for foster kids, I mean I remember that was kind of a thing for you, Hannah, not long after adoption, I mean, there was there was going to be a schedule of holidays and things like that, where where you would reconnect with, with a bio mom, you know, and, and sometimes that didn't happen, and I remember that sometimes that was very hard. I think it's probably something that is a little bit more delicate for for families who have been, uh, through the FOS adopt process. Um, but I I really liked how this movie talked about a lot of the challenges. You know, they uh, I mean they were really struggling at the, at the, the baby shopping, uh, the baby shopping fair that they had in the park. God, that is an awful way to do things.
Speaker 1:But I understand that that's supposed to be California and that you know that they are just kind of overwhelmed there and that that was just the best scenario that the state could come up with.
Speaker 3:But there are two things, there are two things that I just felt so grossed out by, and that was one that was like when they started their foster care classes and one of the ladies was like we'll take one home now. And Karen was like, oh sure, let me go see what's in the back, what we have in stock in the back, and I'm just like, oh my gosh, like let's, let's not even make jokes about that, like you know. And then, yeah, they have a big party in the park where foster parents can go try and match with foster kids for adoption. And how is that not like if like a flea market for kids? It's disgusting.
Speaker 1:It's like human trafficking, but legal.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, it felt really gross. I don't know, hannah, if you had any thoughts about that, but I was just like, ooh, that's no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she had a bit of a reaction when you had mentioned the fair the kid fair, when you had mentioned the fair the kid fair.
Speaker 4:I just think that would be super overwhelming, especially for me, and how timid I was and how everything was so scary because I was in a place I wasn't familiar with bio mom. If I was in that position, all these parents coming up to me and talking to me and trying to get to know me, that would just make me more scared than anything and not show my true self.
Speaker 1:So and on top of that, kids their whole lives, like the whole first 10 years of their lives. They're told not not to talk to strangers. And here they are, put into a park with nothing but strangers and they're supposed to interact with them, like, of course, you know ben, it goes even beyond that.
Speaker 3:We teach our kids not to get in cars with strangers and then they have, you know, visit workers that they've never seen before coming to pick them up and take them in a car three hours to go see a parent. You know what I mean. Like, some of that stuff is just a little not okay.
Speaker 1:Actually that's one of the things that scares me the most is every time I go for the first time to pick a kid up and they are perfectly happy going with me, like I mean, I'm glad that, I'm glad that I can present myself in a way that kids feel comfortable to, you know, to go with me or whatever, but at the same time it it frightens me. You know that there are so many people that get involved in kids, in kids' lives when they're in foster care, that they get comfortable with people they don't know, like it just I don't know, it's scary.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I mean the. There were a lot of common trends that were, that were represented, I feel like, accurately. Uh, Jamie, one of them you would put in was the was the honeymooning period being absolutely accurate.
Speaker 3:Oh, such a thing. It may be two days and it may be two months, but it's still. You know, I think some of my kids, oh, it was so short, it was so short, but it was there. You could definitely mark, and I think you know, the more experienced the kids were at being in foster care, the longer that honeymoon period was, because it really was like, okay, I have to make sure that they like me and aren't going to, you know that they're not going to send me somewhere else. I didn't see that as much with the younger ones or with, like Hannah, but some of those older kids who had been in and out a few times. It was really hard for them.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, had been in and out a few times. It was really hard for them. Oh yeah, I could. I could definitely see that, because even I I have never gone into foster care, like I was never in a foster home, but I definitely recognized in myself that when I'd go to a new environment with a new caretaker of some kind, whether it was a babysitter or something I waited until I figured out what my boundaries were before I started to push them. You know those kinds of things Um.
Speaker 1:you know, I don't know if you remember the Powells, you know like, when I had to figure out where my boundaries were when I was, when I was at the Powells, being, you know, babysat or whatever. There was still that honeymooning period every time, even even if it was the same people in a different house. If they moved from one house to another, then it would change again.
Speaker 3:So like, of course there's going to be a honeymooning period we all do that for sure. That's definitely, it's definitely a common thing. I think the hard thing and the reason it was so, um, so poignant in this movie, is that, um, like at the support group here, pete and Ellie are like I think we just got really lucky, we got really really great ones, you know, and everybody else is like laughing at them, like right, you know. And then eventually they're like standing there with their hair on fire like what's happening? You know? Um, because I thought the same thing. I thought the same thing like oh my gosh, we got really lucky, these ones are really easy, or whatever. But you know, and it's not always like super difficult stuff either Sometimes it's just, you know, like like they went to bed really easy for a long time and now bedtime is really hard, or there's crying at night, or, you know, it's not always like big, bad, hard behaviors, sometimes it's just the emotional piece of it too.
Speaker 1:So and and sometimes, sometimes figuring out the emotional from the physical um like remember remember with Hannah, my leg hurts.
Speaker 3:We were just talking about that yesterday.
Speaker 1:That wasn't your leg that hurt, was it, hannah? No, where did that come from? Tell me about your guys' conversation with that.
Speaker 3:Oh, last night, it was just last night we were talking about it, wasn't it? I think we were watching a movie where the character oh no.
Speaker 2:It was Dance, moms.
Speaker 3:I was going to say our guilty pleasure. We're binging dance moms right now and one of the one of the dancers was like in a wheelchair and her stress causes her body to have extra pain and kind of shut down at different times and things like that. It's like a neurological disorder. And so that kind of made. Hannah and I talk about those times where she would wake up in the middle of the night with a sore, sore knee, sore leg. But I'll tell you what the magic of a cold, wet washcloth.
Speaker 4:Well, and the crazy thing is, it still happens to this day. Yeah, really yeah, like it's, it's not anywhere else but my knee, or like my calf, it's always in that same area. And it and it starts with a lot of emotional stress and anxiety, yeah, like if I've had a hard day or can't sleep because I'm just thinking about too much, or literally anything. If I have a big test the next day, yeah, my leg just hurts.
Speaker 1:See, and I had just had this conversation with a foster family within the last week where I had told them them having a sore throat may not be them being sick, it may have more to do with feelings than it does actual physical illness, because it does happen and it and the only reason I was able to give that insight was because of that experience with Hannah. Now there's another thing here with that I wanted to talk to Hannah about. What I had written down was the strange dynamics with bio parents after, after being in a good foster home. Tell me about your experience with that. Like, I mean, how how did that that go for you, like for Lizzie, for Lizzie, juan and Lita? Like for for Juan and Lita, it was different because they didn't experience as much time with their mom. I mean, juan was what? Eight, ten, something like that. So he would have been six when he was removed at the oldest and Lita would have been a newborn.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Two yeah.
Speaker 1:So they didn't really have as much experience with their bio mom as Lizzie did. When they were removed, when bio mom came back into the picture, their reactions were different. Uh, lizzie was very excited, she was ready to go, she wanted to do this, she wanted to, you know, push back into that life and everything. And one and Lita were really kind of they. They were not so sure. Did you, did you experience anything like that, anna?
Speaker 4:Um, I mean, I guess not really the only. I've talked to my mom about this. The hard thing is is I kind of reconnected with my bio mom after I graduated and she thinks that she knows me. You know, like from the time I was like six to now. I have had so many experiences. I've I'm a totally different person and I just don't think that she realizes that like she thinks I'm the same person, if that makes sense. So it's kind of hard to have a relationship with her because it's like I'm not who you think I am. And the other thing I've also struggled with is I just want the answers on why things happen the way that they did, and I just have never been given clear answers.
Speaker 1:Right. So yeah, Does that affect your relationship with your home, like your family now, like your questions and everything like that? Does that ever affect your adoptive family?
Speaker 4:I don't. Mom, I guess, do you really think it ever affected our relationship? I don't, I don't think it did.
Speaker 3:You know, I think the hardest part, I think the hardest part in that and I'm so grateful, I'm so grateful for the job that I did. That I do because I was able to understand that there's a whole nother side of what I experienced, what Hannah experienced and what her bio family experienced. You know what I mean. Like I know it from my view and in the work that I've done I've learned that because I've sat on the other side of a table with a bio parent as they're struggling and fighting to try and get their kids back in their home. And there really is a whole different side of it. And I'm grateful that I've learned that because I was able to. I remember sitting in the driveway with Hannah and I think it was around this time of year, I feel like we were watching fireworks or something and sitting in the driveway with Hannah and telling her like, hey, everything that I know and that I've ever told you is only this viewpoint. You know, it's what the social workers told me, it's what I read in court reports, it's what I heard at team meetings.
Speaker 3:But your mom has a whole different side of this.
Speaker 3:There's a whole different story there that I don't know and I hope someday she can share that with you, because I can't, you know, she can share that with you because, um, because I can't, you know, and and just to try and give her that space to say, okay, maybe maybe there's some misunderstanding, maybe there's something there for me to learn, um, and I, you know, I hope that she, if she doesn't feel like she's gotten that yet, I hope she can someday just to kind of put those pieces together.
Speaker 3:But I don't, I don't know, I guess I don't feel like it's been a super huge problem for our relationship. I think there have been times, there's definitely been times where her and I have been, like you know, butting heads because because I think we all want to believe the best in the people that we care for. You know what I mean. So I think there's probably times where we might have we might have not gotten along super well. There was like a little rebellious phase rash in high school where I think that was part of it, but but we got through it.
Speaker 4:I'm also at the stage now where I'm 20 and I'm super grateful for the family I have now and the experiences and lessons my mom has taught me. And I just I don't know. From my opinion, I don't really care to know anymore. Like I was yeah, I was from the time I was adopted I've always wondered why, what happened, but now I just I think I would be better off not knowing because I got to have something better.
Speaker 1:So so there's a another talking point on here that, uh, this one's this one's for Jamie. Point on here that, uh, this one's, this one's for Jamie. So in in the movie, uh, pete and Ellie have a really rough day and they go to bed and as they're going to bed, they're talking about how these kids are ruining their lives and they're just making everything worse and now they're going to be miserable and all this other stuff. They talk about how they could give them back and how they could just them back and how they could just. You know, when everybody thinks that they're horrible people, they could just tell them that you know, some family from afar stepped forward and and you know, and took them, and that they're really devastated and they work up a couple of tears and everybody will feel bad for them and we'll still look like the good ones.
Speaker 1:They, they, still they. They come up with this big, elaborate plan for for giving the kids back and and still not looking like the bad guy. And then they both stop for a second and then they both say we're not going to do that, are we? And? And they're not. How accurate is that?
Speaker 3:I'm not. How accurate is that? You know? I I think I would. Uh, it would be dishonest of me to say that there was never a foster placement and I went into fostering with the intention to adopt. Um, I, I did not intend to provide foster care, I intended to FOS, adopt and adopt through the foster care system. And that isn't how it played out, because, man, social workers that are desperate for a placement do a really good job at selling you at the possibilities of adoption, even if they're not there. So that's how I was able to, that's how they were able to rope me into that. But you know, I think what that scene was for me was it was like that safe place. Um, they're my favorite.
Speaker 3:One of my favorite TV shows is this is us, and there was there's a couple on there like Randall and his wife, and they do this like doomsday thing where they go straight to the worst possible conceivable situation in order to make whatever it is. That actually comes not quite as hard to bear as what this, these 50 other horrible things could be right, and it almost felt a little bit like that, like they were sitting there and they were. They were. It was like a safe space for them to say the ugly things that we as human beings feel, sometimes without fear of judgment, without risking hurting these kids that clearly they cared for. And even in those dark spaces, when I had those feelings like I am they need to go, like this child needs to go, or this is too much for me, or whatever it was typically short lived and it was typically because of my own feelings of inadequacy, and that's kind of what I heard from the two of them too, like they felt like they were not adequate, and I think that's probably why that you don't have to be a perfect parent, you just have to be good enough thing struck such a chord with me when I learned that because it's like, okay, I, I am enough and I am who these kids need, and um, and it's okay, it's okay because the inadequacies make me who I am. You know what I mean. Like. So I don't know, is that reality?
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's definitely times where I had well, that first placement was probably the hardest placement I had and it was so difficult. And there were definitely times where I'm like I don't know that I have any more to give. And then there was this reminder in the back of my head that the more times kids get placed over and over and over again, the harder it is for them to overcome that trauma and to overcome those challenges. And so I never actually went through with that. And I did disrupt two placements and I really did that because I felt like it was what was best for for the children, because I really had hit a space where I wasn't. I wasn't what that kiddo needed and I wasn't what at the time. What was required was not something I was capable of, so what was required was not something I was capable of.
Speaker 1:So, right, that takes an awful lot to, to kind of admit, I mean, and and I think that it's probably really hard for people who are in the thick of it to admit that to themselves because, uh, because of pride. But I think it's also really important that that people can set their pride aside long enough to make the right decision for what the children need, rather than you know, rather than what it looks like.
Speaker 3:Well, and Hannah, are you okay with me talking a little bit about that with us? Yeah, Okay, well, cause Hannah was. Hannah was one kiddo that I was. I just didn't feel like I was able to give her what she needed. Um, you know, we talked a little bit in the beginning about how timid and nervous she was at my house. And I had these two other kiddos in my home at the time who were just like Energizer bunnies, little Energizer bunny tornadoes that just were super active and loud and with extra battery packs.
Speaker 3:And here's Hannah sitting on the couch and I swear I remember looking at her and feeling like she is terrified, as crap, right, like and not only that, but every single placement I had had up until that point. They were tougher kids with some bigger behaviors and I really had learned this rules and structure and discipline and consistency and persistence and you know all of these things were super important for those kids with some behavioral challenges. And here's my Hanny sitting on the couch just wanting someone to sit and read with her. You know there were no behavior challenges. That wasn't like a big thing and I'm this tough, mean mom and I don't I I think I scared her sometimes in the beginning, and so you know, I went to the social worker and I said I don't know that this is the place for her. She needs um I.
Speaker 3:My request was a brand new foster parent in a single mom, single mom, foster parent in a home where they they all they want to do is just shower a kid with love and affection. And they found that for her. I mean, they found the perfect place for her and that's exactly what she did. She. She got that person to just pour and invest everything into her and when she came back she was a whole different kid. She was empowered, she had a voice.
Speaker 1:The confidence that she had.
Speaker 3:Yes, do you remember that?
Speaker 1:It was so crazy she walked back into your house with her head high.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and well, and I remember because, talking with that foster mom, she was like I don't know, sometimes she just throws fits in the middle of Walmart and she'll just scream when she doesn't, when I tell her no, or you know, hannah will tell a story about a time at school when she stood on the desk and was like let's partay. And I'm like okay, this isn't the same kid, you know what I mean. And she, she moved back in and and her and my son were able to have a good relationship. They were able to play together. It didn't feel like um, it didn't feel like fitting a square peg in the round hole anymore.
Speaker 3:Um, because she was confident in herself and I don't know that I could have given that to her, cause I was so entrenched in you have to do it my way. I feel like that would have just continued to squish her. You know she needed someone to ask her what your choices are. You know what would you like to do today? And she got that. So she ended up coming back to us because that foster mom was not in a place where she was able or willing. I think she, she just her plan wasn't to adopt, her plan was to foster kids and support them and getting back home. So Hannah got to come back to us a couple of years later but I'm so grateful that she had that opportunity and they there was that foster placement for her to go to, to, to really give her that.
Speaker 1:Right, that shows an even bigger need for fostering homes, because one child might need multiple fostering experiences. That's always the big fear, though. I mean they always talk about how it's not good to bounce kids from foster home to foster home. Maybe sometimes it's necessary, not just because it's not working in one and then not in another and then not in another or whatever but I could definitely see how, in your situation, hannah being able to grow into the Hannah that she would be would have been stifled by by Isaiah and Niditz. You know, like that whole. Yeah, it would have just been. I think it would have been too much for her to be able to grow that way. So on here there's a couple more that you had that you had written down here on the bottom Until the kids are adopted, the primary goal of the system is reunification.
Speaker 1:The best place for kids is with their biological family whenever possible. Is there still some accuracy in this movie? The way that it feels very much like when they're talking about foster care? They're talking about that it's going to go from foster care into adoption and that these kids are either going to be in foster care forever until they're adopted. Is that really a reality, do you think?
Speaker 3:You know, I think for us that's how it worked. For us, we fostered with the intention that those kids were going to go back home, and that was a hard lesson for me to learn, because I came in with this mindset of I want to FOS, adopt. I want to adopt through the foster care system, as in. I wanted to adopt kids that did not have connection with their biological families anymore and needed someplace to be. The reality was is that that isn't. There are lots of kids and our state has a website, just like the website they showed, where they had all the pictures scrolling of, you know, the kid and their age and all of that. We have a website like that too, and you know there are lots of kids that are on there.
Speaker 3:But the reality is is that I think most of the families that I know of that have been able to adopt through the foster care system did it after fostering with the intent that those kids were going to go home, and I think that that was a quote from the movie. It's something that you need to understand that, until the kids are adopted, the primary goal of the system is reunification, and I think that it took me a long time to get to a space where I could. I could put that hat on and say, okay, how can I support this child in their reunification with their family and not feel so much about myself and my own loss that I can't be supportive in that Um?
Speaker 1:and I do remember that being kind of a struggle for you a lot. It's a little unfair to imply that that's not okay, Because I mean, when you're, when you're doing foster care and you're intending to adopt, you know how do you remain detached enough from a child that needs attachment?
Speaker 3:Oh, I will tell every single foster parent on the planet, every single person that I ever talked to, that's talking about doing foster care. And they say I just don't know how you could get so attached. And I tell them, number one, I don't know how you can't get so attached.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:And if you can't get attached, don't do it, because if you leave the walls up, those kids aren't getting what they need in the time that they're away from their family.
Speaker 1:But damn, how hard is it to let them go when it is time to go.
Speaker 3:It is hard.
Speaker 1:I mean the nature of fostering with. You know the intent of reunification, the nature of that is foster families like going through heartbreak every time they send a kid home, and I think that sometimes it's important for parents to know that too. I mean when parents are looking at getting their kids back and whatever they see the foster family being more defensive and things like that. And it's like you have to remember that you know that they love your children too. They had to in order to take care of them A lot of the time. What I'll try to suggest is if you can just put yourself in a place where you can just be thankful that these people were there to love your child when, when you had other things you had to do, and be grateful that they're willing to fight for your children, you know, and that those were the people who cared for them when you couldn't.
Speaker 3:And the best thing, the best thing I was able to do with a couple of of placements was to be able to build a relationship enough with a bio mom that I could be a support to them afterwards. And you know, I mean that didn't last forever. But I would like to think that even now that some of those bio parents, if they needed something, they would call me, that they would say hey, I'm really struggling with this, do you have any ideas? Um, because I left that door open for them, because I didn't, I worked really hard not to alienate them as much as I could and to let them know that I could be a support to them.
Speaker 1:So this one was a was a point of interest brought down by Jamie, but I think that I think that I kind of want to turn to Hannah for this one. Now, what she put down was the hurt, and the trauma doesn't end when the kids are placed in a good home or even at adoption.
Speaker 3:Add the air quotes. Good home Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the hurt continues and happens over and over that. Adoption is the core trauma. You were adopted, you had your day in court and went home with a brand new family, legally, and then you had the rest of your life ahead of you. Was that a happy thing, but yet a bittersweet thing? How was that experience for you?
Speaker 4:I don't remember a lot, to be honest. I think it was a really good feeling, though, because I don't know, I don't remember a lot of things, but I do remember how much I loved Isaiah and having a sibling and I wasn't the only child and I think that helped a lot, and I think the love that my mom showed me was something I had never experienced before, so I think it was a really good thing for me. Not that it doesn't still hurt, and sometimes I do wonder where I would be and how much of a different person I would be if I wasn't adopted, but I'm really grateful that I was. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Now is that something that ever just kind of comes in on you every now and again while you're, while you're in your day to day life? That, like this is more of a like a base level thing, like it's not really so much feelings as much as it is a technical thing, but like something that's really common with kids who are adopted is that you don't have access to a lot of the family medical history and things like that. So there's always that wondering, that whole thing, like we don't have that information so we just have to go with it. And you come across those things as you're going to a new doctor or uh, or or starting a new medicine or something like that, that it's like, well, I don't know my medical history because I don't have that. Is there ever anything like that? Emotionally that happens with when you're just going through your day to day, you come up to a new situation and you're like, uh, because I don't know how I'm going to handle that based on you know, my experiences, you know, with with adoption.
Speaker 4:Um, I think one of the things was my friends have a lot of like baby pictures and their moms will like tell them stories on the funniest things they did when they were really, really tiny and like show me very cute videos, and I just don't have that and I mean I have three and on right yeah but I mean, I guess I do have pictures, but I just don't have the story of from when I was born till like I was three, yeah, so and those are like really important years like fundamentally I'm I think so well, yeah
Speaker 1:you don't have those things for you know, like that's not something that jamie can pull out of the pull out of the photo album, right and embarrass the shit out of you with yeah, yeah actually.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, I didn't even think of that that was something that we kind of ran into with graduation album and embarrass the shit out of you with, actually, oh, wow, I didn't even think of that. That was something that we kind of ran into with graduation, like pulling together photos for graduation, like all we had was from three on, yeah, yep, and even then and there was a couple of years in there that we didn't have any when she was with uh, when she was with the other foster home God, how does how does that work? Like, I mean, do you is? Is that something that now you're just kind of like you know you just well, that's how it is? Or, or, I mean, do you still really feel it sometimes?
Speaker 4:I kind of say it is what it is, there's nothing I could have done, but it still sucks.
Speaker 3:There is something, though, that I in Hannah, and that is is that I hear this drive that she's going to do it different, like when she talks about someday long, long, far, far deep into the depths of the future.
Speaker 3:It better be Having her own babies. You know, it's interesting to hear her talk about what she wants that to look like and what she's hoping for in that, because I think I see that she's going to do it different. She's going to do it in a way that she has those memories and she has that ability to share that with her own kids.
Speaker 1:So I'm kind of excited to see that's cool. So, uh, I mean, we've actually been recording for a long time. This is going to be kind of a special edition sort of thing. Now we're now we're just going to go ahead and jump right into the end of it. Uh, tell me, do you guys have, uh, do you guys have an active ingredient from this movie thing that made you, uh, the thing that changed your perspective, made you feel better, even if it's just catharsis, anything like that? Uh, we'll start with Jamie.
Speaker 3:You know, I think for me it was like getting watching on screen the process, watching them go from point A to B to C, Um, and then also getting to see those kids in the different stages and ages of this thing. It kind of helped me, I guess, see our own growth and our relationship and I guess to recognize like I've been so grateful, as Hannah's gotten older, that we have gotten so much closer than we did. We were for a couple of years there in high school. It was a rough couple of years but you know I consider her a best friend. You know, like we really are growing this whole different relationship and I'm so grateful for all of the pieces that were in place along the way to make that possible.
Speaker 3:And I saw so much of that in this movie that you know I yes, I ugly cried in a couple of different spaces at a couple of different times because it was a little bit like seeing um, seeing all of the hard times and the good times in one space. So it was, it was good. Is it absolutely a hundred percent accurate? No, this is not reality. And if you are interested in foster care or foster adoption, please find someone you know who's been connected or get connected with someone who's done it, because I do think that there are some real value. There's some real value to having that experience from someone who's lived it.
Speaker 1:Hannah, how about you? You got an active ingredient.
Speaker 4:I would just say blood doesn't mean family, like anyone can be your family, like just because you're related to someone doesn't mean they're family at all. And I don't know, I would consider I would choose a family that I have now in any other lifetime, just because I have been so blessed with the love and care that I've been given. So yeah, that's kind of what I pulled from it.
Speaker 3:I'm so glad you get to have both. Hanny, like I'm glad that you get the option to have both and it's yeah, my life would not be the same without you. I'm glad that you get the option to have both my life would not be the same without you.
Speaker 4:There are kids that don't get to experience that. There are some kids that are stuck with people that don't care for them and don't really have any other options.
Speaker 1:For me the active ingredient. It actually came pretty early on in the movie. It was that scene where Ellie kind of flipped out on her family when she told them I have a place on Thanksgiving and things to be grateful for and people who are there for me, and some kids don't have that. And the reason why that was really important for me again has a lot to do with the work that I do. Me uh again has has a lot to do with the work that I do.
Speaker 1:It reminds me, to remind parents and foster parents that these are just kids. You know that, despite how hard it can be to remember uh, because their lives are so much busier than most adults, you know. I mean going to visits, going to doctor's appointments, going to counseling appointments, going to, uh, going to to court and and all of this other stuff, all of these different things that these kids have to do and on top of that, the things that the foster parents have them do for extracurriculars and things like that, that they still have to have time to be kids and that, as caretakers of children, that it's our job to make sure that they have that time time to spend time with their friends, time to spend time with themselves. I mean, how important is it for kids to spend some time, uh, just sitting in their bedroom? Boredom is an important part of being a kid, and some of these kids don't.
Speaker 1:I think that sometimes a lot of those behaviors that people are always concerned about stem from the fact that these kids don't have a chance to be themselves and appreciate the things that they do have, and it's just kind of a reminder for me, you know, with that. So anyway, that's Instant Family. It was really fun having you guys on Big long episode. I am going to spend so much time editing this. It's ridiculous, especially with all the noise my dog is making.
Speaker 3:I was going to say you got to take Moxie out of several pieces of it too, but I think the next time you have Hannah on a show it should just be you and Hannah, so that she's talking more, cause she talks way more than she did today.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm. I'm actually thinking that this is really good Cause if you listened to my last episode, the one with jake, that didn't sound like jake because jake was nervous as shit and like this is a good way to get hannah, to get those jitters out with hannah, because, like it's a, it's a good introduction to where we could let you babble and she could come in every now and again I'm really hoping to get her on my podcast too, but we just need to find the topic in the time.
Speaker 1:That'll be fun, so uh, so yeah, go ahead and go ahead and plug your stuff, Jamie.
Speaker 3:Oh, coming fall of 2024, september 2024, we'll be back with our regular episodes and, uh, we are starting to book guests and get ready to start recording and I'm super excited about what's coming. So look us up on Facebook. Now is the perfect time to catch up on the old episodes. So, you know, join us. Wherever you listen to podcasts. It's Roundtable Mindset and my friend Malin and I are the hosts and it's all about bringing different perspectives to the table and still walking away with a handshake and, you know, as friends.
Speaker 1:So Awesome, yeah, thank you both for coming on, jamie, hannah, that's, we'll have you. We'll have you back as soon as I can convince both of you to come back. I don't know, hannah, if you had to pick a movie that was it was medicine for you what would you pick?
Speaker 4:Marley and Me, or Up, I think.
Speaker 1:Marley and Me or Up.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know that I remember much of Marley and Me.
Speaker 4:Oh, it makes me bawl every time.
Speaker 1:Up is definitely one of those movies that I get angry with. How much Up manipulates my feelings.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's so not even fair.
Speaker 1:Pixar. Damn you Pixar. So yeah, we'll have to talk about that at some point.
Speaker 1:Now if you have a movie that's been medicine for you and you'd like to be on the show, you can email me at contact at movie-rxcom, or you can leave me a voicemail or call me or text me, either one at 402-519-5790. If anxiety is keeping you from being on, you can write me a couple of paragraphs about a movie and send it into that email and I can sure read them on air. Now remember, this movie is not intended to treat, cure or prevent any disease. We'll see y'all at the next appointment.
Speaker 2:I don't need to feel lonely. I am finally home at last, and I don't mind being gone on adventures for a while. No, no, cause the best thing about it is I know I'm coming back. Oh, oh. Of all the magic places in the world I've been to, this is where my heart is. Oh, you know, it's true. No matter where I go, I'm coming home to you. So you know, it's true. No matter where I go, I'm coming home to you.
Speaker 2:Been walking down the street so many times, my feet know every brick and stone Could wear a blindfold. No matter what I do, I'm coming home to you and I don't know why, don't know why, don't know why I'm always feeling homesick. All I know, all I know, all I know Is this is where my heart is. I have seen many places when the beauty never ends Different cities, friendly faces, and perhaps I'm going back. But I don't have to be chasing every dream that I have, cause the thing is, I've got more love here than I can bear. Thank you, all I know, all I know, all I know Is this is where my heart is. Oh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Of all the magic places in the world I've been to, this is where my heart is. You know it's true. No matter where I go, I'm coming home to you.