Your Story Is Already Worth Telling. You Just Don't Know How to Pitch It Yet.

She applied for Big Brother ten times.

Ten rejections. Ten "not this time." Ten times she came back anyway.

And she eventually got on.

That is the entire PR philosophy in one story. Keep going. Stay in the room. 
Your no is someone else's not yet.

In this episode, I sit down with Heidi Anderson: PR strategist, keynote speaker, author of Drunk on Confidence, and one of the most genuinely unfiltered and practical voices on pitching yourself and building media credibility I have ever had on this show.

This is not a vague conversation about "putting yourself out there." This is a real, tactical, laugh-out-loud hour of actually learning how to do it, including a live build of a full PR strategy for a brand new fictional facial service called the Milk Maintenance Facial. Yes, really.

→ The 20-20-20 formula for pitching: research, write, and pitch in the right order 
→ The biggest mistake people make when sending a pitch, and it is not what you think 
→ Why nobody cares about your product until they know your story 
→ How to find the scroll-stopping hook that is already buried in your content 
→ The pre-launch, launch, and post-launch PR framework most people get completely wrong 
→ How to leverage a media feature so it keeps working for you weeks after it goes live 
→ Why "miles in the saddle" is the only PR strategy that truly works long term 
→ The deathbed framework Heidi uses when fear is louder than ambition 
→ Why Heidi was rejected by Big Brother ten times, and why she kept applying anyway

If you have ever thought your story is not interesting enough, your business is not big enough, or you need to wait until you are more ready before you start pitching yourself, this episode will dismantle every single one of those beliefs.

Your story is already worth telling. You just need to learn how to frame it.

Connect with Heidi Anderson: → Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_heidianderson/ → Website: https://heidileeanderson.com.au

I want to empower women in the beauty industry to create an impact, build an empire, and leave their legacy!

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If you have any questions about the episode, or have a burning question you’d like me to answer on the show, or if you’d like to join our movement of ambitious beauty leaders, connect with me and the rest of our incredible community on Instagram:
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I found a dead body. I'm gonna use this really random example, but I found a dead body. This was 20 years ago. I was driving home from work at a shift at the pub, and I was going to my boyfriend's house and my car ran out of petrol. I had to walk to his house, and as I was walking, I found a guy on the side of the road dead. Now there is so much to that story, but if you're like, I found a dead body, straight away people are like, what? Tell me more. What you want to do is like get it out, like what you want to say first. Write the email, even if it's like three or four paragraphs. Too long, but get it out and then be like, what's the most interesting thing about?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Hello, and welcome back to another episode on the Beauty Industry Leaders podcast. I'm your host, Sammy Kennedy. Today I am joined by one of the most incredible PR people that I have ever met in my life. She is a keynote speaker, a publicist. She is ADHD amazing.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

ADHD triple D, just for those playing at home. With the Dexies. And I'm on Dexies, yeah, medicated.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

And she also has this incredible mind, which can see things out of the box. You've had an experience on Big Brother, you've done radio talk shows, podcasts, everything you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

But what haven't you done? Um, do you know what? A lot of things. There's still so many things that I want to do. But isn't it funny how you like there be just one thing? Have you done meth? Have I done meth? Actually. Yes. I'm from Bathurst. Oh, okay. Unhinged. I'm totally unhinged. But that's what makes me me. Fair enough. As long as you're not doing it now. No, no, no. I haven't for a while. Well, how's that for a start? But do you know what? Do you know what? Like, I think so many people when we're when we're introducing ourselves, we sometimes it's like, I don't know who I want to be today. And I think that's okay. Like, there are as many parts of me as who I am. Like, I'm a mum as well, I'm a wife, I'm a best friend, I'm a daughter of someone who with my dad right now going through dementia. Like, we're all so multifaceted, and I hate that when they're like, so tell us who you are in one sentence. And I'm like, I ain't got time for that.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

But also, you can't put me in a box. Yeah, don't put me in a box. Some people like their little box because it gives them I know exactly who I am, what I'm doing. And I think for people like us who are creative, who are visionaries, who have all these million ideas in business and don't know which one to execute, so then we're on Claude for like 10 hours and we've done all 20 of them. Like it just feels claustrophobic to be put in that box.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah. And I think for me, like you mentioned the ADHD, I have this love-hate relationship with being labelled ADHD because I was kind of like, oh, that means I'm like a lot of the people that I know and I'm not unique. But do you know what I mean? But then also, but then putting it, but then also for society to understand you sometimes, I think it's easy to go, like, yep, okay, that's who that just so you get me, like that's what I have and or experience.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

One of the funniest things that I've said on this podcast is that every single incredible entrepreneur I know is somewhere on the spectrum. Whether they're autistic or they're ADHD or they've got asperges, like there's just something that is not normal that allows them to be incredible at what they do. Like Elon Musk, he's definitely somewhere on the spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

But you know what? I reckon everyone is like we are all something. Do you know what I mean? And I think, like, especially, I mean, like, that's a whole other bloody podcast, I tell you what. Like being a mum too, of this day and age, like there's a lot of conversations that people need to have around like the environment and where we are the way that we are. But like for me, the way that I see it is it is definitely a superpower. Like, I can do three days' work in six hours. Oh, yeah. And then I'm done. And then you can do six days' work in like six weeks. Yeah. Because you won't focus.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah, because you're like, oh my god, I'm so tired, I've burnt myself around. You know, and then you find something new and you hyperfixate. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah. Welcome to my brain.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Well, I was thinking, how can I do this episode so it's not boring like every other one that you constantly probably do because you are the PR queen. I wanted to start off with Heidi's hot takes. Oh, oh my God, how fun. So obviously, I know you are the expert in PR. I have personally used you for bowling, my personal brand, and thanks to you, I've actually had a lot of incredible opportunities, whether you realise it or not. I was able to get on the news, I was front page of the Albany Advertiser, we got a two-page exclusive. I've just been nominated for I saw that! Oh my god, seven years young achievers, it was but this whole journey, it made me realise how important it is to actually learn how to pitch yourself. Because you, that one PR day that I did in person, that shifted everything for me. And I roll my eyes every time I get a message saying, I want to come onto your podcast. I'm like, Yeah, you need to go to see Heine.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Because that ain't that's what you need to write back. I'll pay you an affiliate. There's another new business for you. Seriously. Because it's it's true. I guess like PR, before we get into the hot takes, like just so people understand, public relations. So thinking about media opportunities and how you get featured, how you pitch yourself, because some people I think don't really like they they don't think they're good enough for it, or they're not deserving, or isn't that for celebrities or dodgy politicians like that, you know, come in with crisis PR. It is for actually everyone, and it does come down to being how you put yourself out there, how you promote yourself and how you pitch yourself. Totally. And also anyone has the opportunity to do it. And everyone, it should have been part of your marketing plan yesterday. I know we're not supposed to say should have, because like, you know, with my psychologist, don't put your don't say she should have done something because the pressure that you put on yourself, but I'm telling you, it should have been part of your marketing plan yesterday. Oh, it's such a game changer.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

It's opened so many doors for me. And I think a lot of the time I was really I kind of opposed to it because I was like, I'm putting myself out there. What are all the comments gonna say? What if I get rejected? But if you don't look at the comments and you don't take it personally, it just becomes this incredible tool for you to get in front of the right people.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

And I always say that, but do you know what I've been doing, Sammy? Because coming from radio TV, I have had everything said to me, the worst possible things like that you can imagine in comment sections. I wrote for news.com for years. That's a cesspool of like holes, no lies like tick, like TikTok, you know, you know you go over there and there's going to be C next Tuesdays. But because I'm about to release a podcast that I have, I know what disappointment feels like. I know what nasty comments feel like. I've been training. So I've been looking at comments. I'm like, send me the nasty comments. That's how I'm getting myself prepared for what's to come. Because for so long I feel like I've been avoidant, and that that helped, like when I was a brand new mum, and like, you know, where my energy needs to be for him. But now I'm like, oh no, I'm ready, bring it. And that's how I've been training.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

All the advice you gave me was don't read any of the comments, let a friend read it. And if they can just filter through, they can give you yeah, TLDR.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Well, because some people aren't ready for it. Like you've got to think, I've been in training for a long time. I started my breakfast radio career in 2010. And so, and I've traveled all around the country working in radio, TV, all of the things. Big brother, written for articles. So I have had, like I said, every single thing, the worst possible thing I've thought about myself, and then someone else saying it. But I know when people come to my PR day, that's a big thing for them. They're scared of rejection, they're worried what people think, what are they gonna say in the comments, blah, blah, blah, all this shit. So I'm always like, stay away from them. But I've got some clients who make the best reels and content from them. So I kind of just say that to begin with. And like I said, for me, it really helped me for a long time, avoiding the comment section. Now I'm like, if I want to have the biggest podcast in Australia, and then, you know, for women around the world, I've got to be ready for people not to like me and to say mean things because that's the way the world is.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

But also sometimes it's like getting a bad review, it's the way you respond. Like if you hit back with some humor or you show that it doesn't take power over you, they kind of go, Oh, yeah, like what the hell?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

But the truth is, and this is what I fully believe, is that a lot of the time I've already probably had that thought about myself. And I think that's what's the scary thing sometimes. Because they're confirming it. Because they're confirming those beliefs that you may have had in that self-doubt moment, or like, you know, your dark shadow, like someone might not think I'm that friendly because I was an asshole back at school. Yeah, that's probably true. You know what I mean? But it's like, oh my god, it's like you're exposed. They can, it's like they're reading your inner dialogue or feelings that you've had. And I think that's what's the scary thing sometimes. And then I think too, it cannot be that, but you start to believe it because you're not, you know, self, you're not trusting yourself.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

It's such a fine line between having so much confidence and belief in yourself to the point of not being a narcissist, and then the opposite way of like taking everything everyone says on board and becoming complete pushover and just spiral it.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

I've been all. I've been all of it. I've been all of it. But you know, you're wanting to step into the delusional stuff, right? Oh yeah. So that's how you've got to be in the comments section, like delusional as fuck. I don't give a I don't give a crap about what these people say. Like they mean absolutely nothing to me. Like, are they sitting here creating what I'm creating? No.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

But the ones that get it, get it, and the ones that don't exactly, they're not for me. Yeah, I could do like a whole podcast on this. Well, back to the hot takes. Back to the hot takes, sorry, 10 minutes later. Number one, I want to know what are your top three channels or platforms for PR and why?

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Um, I guess it depends. And I know we spoke about this at the PR days. Like, I'm big on intention. Yeah. So there is such a spiritual side of me that a lot of people I don't probably share a lot of, but I'm super intentional. And I also want you to be super intentional. Like, honestly, everyone should be on every platform. That's the truth, but we ain't got time for that. And then also, not every journalist we might align with, or you know, we might not always agree with the views of this, these certain platforms, but podcasting is definitely a way to PR yourself. This right here is a way that I always PR myself. When I know someone's got a camera in front of me, they're gonna give me some reels. Um, they're gonna give me 40 to 50 minutes. Like, this is a great way to pitch yourself and PR yourself. So podcasting has to be not on your own. Because like here right now, I'm borrowing Sammy's audience. Like, that's what I'm doing. And I know that there's people out there that haven't met me yet. But if they're on my audience, they've met me, you know. So podcasting, number one. Um, two, I love traditional media, like I love it. And that's like TV, radio, um, magazines, newspapers. Like people are still buying them. And we have this bias psychology. Like it's uh we have this psychology of we pedestal people that are in the news or radio. Like when people used to come on our radio show, their friends would go, Oh my god, you're so famous. You're on Heidi Will and Woody, or oh my god, I made the news, like you're so famous, or you're on the front page of the newspaper, oh my god, you're a big deal. That we're programmed to be like that. So I love traditional media, um, and so I love magazine covers, and I think it's a great way as long as you leverage it. And then the third thing that I always say is like your own platform. Like, so if you're gonna do all these things, how are you going to leverage the fuck out of it on your own platforms? Totally.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Because it all does feed into each other. And if you don't have that foundation, yeah, you waste so much time trying to get all the exposure, and then you have nowhere to leverage it.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah, like everyone, like if you have a marketing, email marketing, then you know, always like when you've been saying on here, I'll be like, great, I'll turn this into a I'll probably transcribe this on podcast or get sent me to, and then I'll turn that into an email and I'll send it to my list, and then they can listen to it, but also pulling out the hot takes. Like, how can I create content from this and give myself that credibility? And then if I was in the newspaper, like go buy, like film yourself, document yourself like a Kardashian, going and buying the newspaper, then sharing that, then putting that at the top of your page, and then also then if it's a great double page spread, it should be on your website. Like everyone leads with credibility. If you didn't know, like every coach you look at, every business, every brand, they all lead with credibility. And so if you can borrow someone else's to leverage them, like that's what you could, you know, do to change the game.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Totally. I love that. When you're hosting these VIP PR days, what is the most common misconception that these people have when it comes to PR?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Do you know what? I think um, because I am a little bit, I guess, had an awakening and am a bit conscious, it is sometimes feels like a contradiction that I play in the media still. Because I remember all my very conscious mates when I was working in Breakfast Radio that they were like, oh, she is, you know, on that side, like, you know, puppeteers from above, like a lot of stuff about how the media is with narratives and all that kind of stuff. But when I was in the industry, and this is why I love it so much, like I was just Heidi Anderson trying to fucking make a cool breakfast radio show and be entertaining. I wasn't, I didn't, I wasn't open to any of that, like that they were talking about. And so I think I get a lot of people that are like, well, I don't trust the media. Like, uh the media gives me the ick, like, oh, news is all bad. Like, do you know what I mean? All of those kind of thoughts that we have, or um even me, like this was 100% one of my beliefs. Uh you can hear me now, you can hear my energy, you can hear how I speak, you can hear like my um my personality, how I make jokes and everything. Going in print, you don't get that. Oh, yeah. So I was always so petrified of having something bad written in the print, and that like I had this, it's kind of like you know, when someone goes to sell you something at their shopping center and you're like, I don't trust you, or a dodgy car salesman or whatever. We have this internal, and I was the same with print. So I was really scared when anyone ever interviewed me. And so I think a lot of people have these misconceptions, and this is why I talk a lot about intention, knowing where you want to go, building relationships with the journalists, with the hosts, like knowing that they've got your back and that they're in it for the right reasons too. Do you know what I mean? Like, and then also sometimes you might get a shitty headline, but the article might be great. Like, that's the truth with Daily Mail. They've written some like crazy headlines for clickbait, but the story in it is brilliant. And my mate, who's the journalist, has written that, but the editors decided the headline. Learn to play the game. Like, this is what I'll say. If you want to be the go-to, if you want to be the next thing, if you want to build a personal brand, like AI is fastly taking over. People with credibility, especially borrowed from the media, you will be miles ahead of everyone else because you're the real deal. Clickbaity headlines. Like, I love it. Like, who doesn't love a bit of juice? But just as long as the article or whatever what you do, same with the headline on a podcast, right? Like when you're getting someone to open an email, whatever it is, just as long as it matches the headline. It's not just some like crack, like sometimes I'll send a headline, I'll send a message to my mates in that are journose, and I'm like, it's not a dick pick, I promise. And then unfortunately, like, you know, they're probably waiting for the dick pic. But but just to get their attention. So you've got to just grab attention. Yeah. And like there is the trust economy as well. So like they're the misconceptions I think that people have. And you'll know, like, what did you experience when you came to the PR day?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Well, I experienced a lot of almost this negative kind of feeling towards media because when we're running the rodeos, we actually had paid for advertising. Yeah. Five grand. And then we the day after the rodeo had an article coming out saying it was all animal cruelty. And so it's like we paid for advertising, and now you're putting us on the front cover, putting this whole negative thing. And then with the same company. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's so felt. Who was running that company? Fucking hell. The PR person wasn't doing a good job. Albany advertiser, you've been called out. Uh, funnily enough, the editor just contacted me saying, hey, we want to do an article on your like, ah, oh good.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

But you know, this is the thing, like you play the game, play the game, but also it changes hands. Yeah. Like, I'm not okay with that. That's where there's like a um, but really truthfully, I'm gonna call it out. Like at our company, Southern Cross Stereo, when I worked for SCA at the Hit Network, if someone had advertised with us, there is no way, like, we would have been pulled into line as a breakfast show if we were trying to do a story on that. Like sometimes things accidentally happen on air, like we might say something, but they didn't they don't control it, but you're paying the bills. Oh, yeah. So that could have been like I don't I can't believe someone didn't see that.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

But another thing that did happen, which I think is worth talking about, is when you were helping me with getting eyeballs on the bowling alley when we were doing the launch, we got front page exclusive, two-page write-up. It was really, really positive from the Albany advertisement. Hi, thank you, Albany. And then we had Seven News come and do a story. Yeah. Now they were pushing an agenda. So they wanted it to be about yes, this bowling alley is opening up, but there's a cost of living crisis, how a family's gonna afford it. And they didn't know anything about our prices, they didn't know anything about the value. And so, what's it called when you go to the street and you try to find people? Oh, like vox pops. Yes, yeah. So I went with the chick and we went and did that. And the way that she was asking the questions was like, Heidi, have you heard about the new bowling alley opening up in town? And people like, yes. And then she'd go, Are you concerned that families are not going to be uh able to afford this given that it's a cost of living crisis? Like she was trying to get that. So we had this whole I was there for every single interview, and people are like, I'm really excited for it, it's gonna be great. The one lady that responded, she said that family have been through so much and they've still found a way to make it work. They've got to put a roof over their heads and they've got to find a way to survive in today's thing. But I'm so excited for it. Guess what they did? They cut out the bit where it says they've got to put a roof over their heads, so I don't know how they're gonna afford it. And they made it sound like that's what she was saying about people who are gonna come bowling, not our families. So she got really upset and wrote in the comments section. But it really opened my eyes up about how the media will take one story and then one person will want to do this angle, another one will do another. At the end of the day, it is a little bit upsetting if you do take it personally, but at the same time, we had our cult fans in there raving about us, backing us up, and I think that's also a really good test to show how many people do believe in your brand.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Yeah, yeah. And I think like what's really interesting about that is I love that you talk about that because this is the thing, right? There is always agendas, there's narratives, like, and coming from a community like Albany, you know, 50,000, 60,000 people, whatever it is, if it's even that big, and like I love Albany, by the way. But they're in competition. So Albany Advertiser, if they're not owned by seven or night, whatever it is, so they're in competition. So the fact that they got the exclusive was like, okay, we need another angle here for us to do it. Now, if I was the journalist, I would have been honest and gone, hey, like my producer and my boss is angling for this. Like, how do you feel about that? Um, because do you have any other angles that we could run with? Do you know what I mean? So, like, that's where, like, for me, it's like, but then sometimes I'm also like YOLO. Yeah, and figure it out. It's good public like bad publicity is good publicity. Like, I do believe that you can swing stuff around and own the narrative. And that's what, like, we talk about super fans, like Carl and Jackie O, who just split up, you know, the biggest radio station, biggest radio duo in the whole of Australia, like the biggest payday for those two. It's heartbreaking from a radio person like me because I'm like, they were our mum and dad, like they're our idols, you know, and I know them both. Like, and they have gone out, and Kyle, everything he's done since, has been all about the fans. And so they are fighting for him, like you said, your cult followers and fans. And this is something that we I think we we worry about sometimes is when we put ourselves out there that we won't have our backup team, and this is why community is really important, and like always putting your fans first and building those super fans. So, I mean, your experience, I love that you're just like dust it off and like carry on because like that's great, but you own the narrative on your page, like but you actually educated me first to not read the comments, to not make it mean something about you, and you know, at the end of the day, some people are gonna love you, some people are gonna hate you.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

It really matters to you what you think about yourself and the people that you love and care about.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yeah, exactly. And the the truth is you'll be old news tomorrow. Like it moves so fucking quick, especially now with social media, and you've got to think about the content that these um, you know, hosts producers, everyone have got to put out these days. Yeah. This is why I always say now is the most important time to get PR, and probably the easiest if you do it the way that I teach you. Yeah. Because there's they're producing so much that the news cycle is really, really quick. So if you're getting if you're getting cancelled one day, you're probably good in 48 hours. I always

SPEAKER_01 22:00

But it'll be cancelled the next day. Like, remember that footy captain that was like cheating on the wife with the friend? And then it was like, okay, we've got the Epstein files coming out, but now we've got an award, boom, boom, boom. You know, I actually forgot that we had a war going on because that went for two weeks and then now we've got an award.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah, now fuel fuel and then fuel this and that and blah, blah, blah. It's just overstimulating to the point where, oh. And especially now with social media. And this is the thing, right? Like, think about traditional media as well. The reason why it's not dying is because they have podcasts, is because they have content that they're building on social media. So if you get on, say, Albany Advertiser, they might then share it on their Facebook page. The that one part that is literally got 200,000 followers, and then it's like bang, all those shares, and so even more eyeballs. So it's not just about because most people aren't probably watching the news anymore as much as what they used to or buying the papers, but how are they they leveraging it and then you're leveraging off that? Like that's what you've got to think.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Well, we just had a video go up on Great Southern about Brucey Brahmin at the beach. And so there were all these videos. Yeah, yeah. There were these videos of him there, and then we didn't realize how much it was getting repurposed. And so I had people coming up to me at the coffee shop saying, Hey Sammy, I saw your bull on the news. And then he was in America, he was in Hong Kong. Like people took that and then it became part of their news. So it was just crazy how viral those moments do become. Yeah. I really want to know what's the worst mistake people make when sending pictures? Because you've received, you've sent out so many pictures, and I know that this gets your backup when you see a bad one. So lay it to me. But also, can I just say I've fucked up too?

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah, 100%. The fact is, I kept going. Yeah. And I think this is the biggest thing that I want people, like I want you to fuck up. Like, we're all gonna fail. We're all gonna send an email where we say the wrong name. Done it. When you're like copy and paste, send it to that person, send it to that person, and then you're like, fuck, I sent the wrong email, like to the wrong person. I've done that. Yeah, same. And then I sent an a pitch to a kid spot about one of my clients, and he was a bloke, and then I didn't really look into you know the journalist at the time. I didn't really do my research, which is one of the things that I teach, the formula that I teach now. So I just really want to like asterisk caveat, is it caveat? Is it fuck me trying to be like all smart and shit? Um, but like I want to say that because the only reason why I've got where I've got to is because I've continued to push myself through when I've fucked up, when I've sent the wrong pitch, when I've done every mistake that you're probably worried about. I've already done it. Yeah. And so I also think that like as you get to know journalists, you get to learn what they like as well. Um, and so you don't know that unless you continue to pitch to them, right? Like, because they're not gonna tell you in the first one. The first one's about getting their attention, sparking curiosity, and not projectile word vomiting all over them in one email. Hello, I've done thousands of emails like that. Like, so just so you know, I've got ADHD. Sometimes I feel like I've got to give you every bit of detail. But what you really want to do, the best pictures will grab their attention in the first, like the um email, like you know, the headline. Uh, if it's a video, like you'll grab their attention some way in a voice message. So you want them to be like, oh, tell me more. Like, that's what you want them to say. You don't want to give them everything because they ain't got time for that. They've got hundreds of emails. So press releases don't really like if you've got a book, sometimes they might ask for a press release. Um, but the truth is they don't really read them. They'll only ask for them if they've got to quickly print them out and get their hosts or whatever on TV to quickly have a scan. So you want it to be as exciting, grab attention as it can. And then the thing is, like, say my mate Matt Tinney from Sunrise, he just loves a voice message. Like, that's the truth. He doesn't fucking got time. He's producing the own show here in News, Perth News. Like, he doesn't have time to read like a big email. So he wants one to two sentences. And then also, like, how is it related to the day-to-day now? Like, what's trending? And I always say, like, chuck some stats in there, do some research. Um, but probably the biggest mistakes are not researching the journalist or the um the outlet. So say if it's today extra, right? Can you go back through, which is a TV show here in Australia um in the daytime, can you go back through and look through their Instagram or on, you know, on TV on channel nine, like what they've had, the what guests, what they've been talking about. So then you know, like, okay, yeah, they are my people. Or actually, no, that's not who I want to talk to. I think mine's gonna be better for online written article for Mama Mia. So this is why when I teach people the 2020-20 formula, it's all about research first, then you write, so you put together your pitch, you do your video, whatever, and then the final thing is pitching.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

With this podcast, I've had some people pitch to me. Yeah, tell me, tell me what have they said. Some of the some of them are like, I want to come on, and that's it. Like, literally, literally I mean at least they grabbed your attention. I'm gonna come on, and I'm like, no. And then the other one is when they are like, I've got this product and I want to talk about it. And I've said, we're not a sales show, you know, we talk about business. Yeah. And so it just shows that if someone hasn't done their research, if they haven't listened to an episode, if they haven't made the effort to understand who your audience is and how they can help, then why am I gonna waste my time with you?

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Yeah, the best thing you could do is if you want to come on Sammy's podcast, is listen to a couple of episodes, get the vibe. Like also check, do they even do guests? Like, you know what I mean? I sometimes and I've done this, I've fucked it up, like, but go have a listen. And then maybe they've never talked about a topic that you have. Like, you've got to think, if you've got a book, this is I just ran a workshop on books, like people with books, right? For authors. And there was 400 people that rocked up. And the biggest thing is most authors will sell their book to the media, they'll sell the book to the podcast. No one gives a fuck about the book. Sorry, but we don't know the book yet, unless Kim Kardashian's read it, or like, do you know what I mean? You're a massive superstar author yourself. They don't care. What they care about is one story in that book that's in it for their audience. Like, so if it is today extra or if it is Sammy's podcast and you do have a book or a product, like, what's the story behind it? Like, what's your story? What's there, like, is there, so say Jess Williamson, she's a business coach here in Perth, her book Unstoppable Success, right? Like, we could have gone and tried to pitch her book, but no one gave a like no one gives a fuck. But her story and one just story in there was like one day she couldn't even pay for a $12 parking ticket. The next day she's got a 78k payday. You know, so people are like, what tell me more? Like, how did she do that? Like, yeah, and then becomes her story of how unstoppable success. So can you see how people go like, oh right, it's not the whole turn like a chapter or one story into your actual angle and your pitch. Yeah. And then just for an example of another one, whilst I'm on it, is Simone Heng. She's an international global speaker, she's one of my good mates. We've worked in media together. She actually got told she wrote a book on loneliness. She's had a lot of trauma, a lot of grief. And she was told she didn't look lonely enough when she first was releasing her book. We did her book two years after we pitched it to the media, and we she was just flown to the UK to do Good Morning Britain and um that kind of stuff. And we positioned her as the expert on loneliness with her book, right? So not a story, but positioning her. So what tips can she give to people on loneliness week? And then thinking about the calendar of the year, you can Google like what is today. Is today donut day? Like, I don't know. Can you Google it now? Like, what is today? And then you can create content for them about today or mental health week or fertility week, or do you know what I mean? Like, there's so many conversations that they're having around these calendars. So don't try and dump the product at Sammy or like, you know, like if you're gonna do that, think about what's in it for Sammy, what's in it for her audience.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

My audience, 100%. My audience don't want to be sold to, they don't want to have me bringing this person on. Like, I've never taken a paid guest on. And I know some people do, but I believe that the power is finding these people that you truly align with, you know they're an expert at what they do, or they have a story that's really gonna connect and resonate with the audience. Yeah. Which now I'm like, okay, as someone who gets pictures and also sends them out, it's really changed my perspective because I'm like, what would I hate to receive and what would really spark my attention? And when you can kind of go that way, you're like, oh, okay, this is a good picture. Like, don't bother. So what sparks your attention? I think when someone's listened to a podcast episode and they've got a complimentary angle.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

So I just recently go to someone who No, it was not there. I always say, like, tell the tell the Jo know O that you love one of their articles. Yeah, that's it. But it means that you've that they've looked into you, right? 100%.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

I had one guest, Isla, she came on and she spoke about what it was like falling pregnant and then hiring up this staff member to take over a client's, and then right as she's about to give birth, the chick goes, I don't want to work, I've got this other job opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

There's so many people.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Literally, but then this other chick came to me and she said, I listened to that episode and I loved it, but here's what I've been experiencing. I had to, I had a team and I had to let them go because I'm trying to do IVF and my stress levels were too high. My doctor told me that I can't do this. So it's like, cool, for those people who are struggling with that problem, they're gonna really resonate and connect. But also, how many women are struggling with fertility? They're going through IVF, they feel so alone, and I'm like, that's gonna connect in with my audience. Now, whenever I have someone say, I could talk about anything, I'm like, that's not helpful. That's actually such a good selling point. I wanna know, are you the expert at something? What is the value that you can provide? Has there been a significant event or challenge or tribulation in your life that you've had to overcome? What did you learn from that? So, my next question for you is what makes a scroll stopping hook or an email opening that you're just not gonna let it go to junk. You know it's spark that curiosity and you're like, tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Is there a dick pic in here? No. Um that classic headline I use for my mates, like, promise it's not a dick pic. Do you know what? I've actually just created a little chat Got too for like hooks, like for people to. I did see that on your website. And this one's a hook bot, like just to get nail the hook. Because the truth is most of the time, and this is how I want you to think, because when we're trying to write, like think of yourself on social media as well, right? We're told to stop the scroll, we're told to like get write the perfect hook. If you write from triumph to fucking transformation in a headline, do we speak like that? No, like delete that. What the fuck? That's like the but this is what ChatGBT and everything is like giving us these vague phrases. And so what you really want to do to stop someone, most of the time, the truth is that the hook is already in probably the email that you've written. It's already in the post. So we spend so much time trying to get the perfect hook at the start that then we don't finish what we need to write. So I would suggest write what you need to write. Write the post on social media, write the email pitch, do the video, right? And then you'll find the hook buried in there. And it's like that moment that's like, um, so say for me. I'm gonna use this really random example, but um, I found a dead body. Oh yes, I have seen it. And I I genuinely, and you're like, what it what do you mean? Like you want to ask more questions, right? That that's the ending of the story. The guy's dead. Yeah. This was 20 years ago. I was driving home from um work at a shift at the pub, and I was going to my boyfriend's house, and my car ran out of petrol. And then I had to walk to his house, and as I was walking, I found a guy on the side of the road dead. Now, there is so much to that story, but if you're like, I found a dead body, straight away people are like, What? Tell me more. Okay. Yeah, like, oh my okay, so you want people to be like, oh my god, what the fuck? Oh, please tell me more. Oh my god, I see myself in that. Like, holy shit. So for me to find a dead body, that was pretty fucked. That was pretty confronting as an 18-year-old who was petrified of dying. Um, but what you want to do is like you uh like get it out, like what you want to say first, like write the email, even if it's like three or four paragraphs, too long, but you know, get it out and then be like, what's the most interesting thing about this that's gonna get them to open? And then that's you can highlight that part and then chuck that in the heading. So don't bury the fucking lead.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Okay, so based on everything you know about me and what you've seen over the years, can you give me like three hooks that you would think of?

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Oh, that's like that's like saying, um, I can talk about anything on the podcast. But give me like, so talk to me about your podcast and say if we're so one of the workshops I'm working on in June is I'm gonna teach coaches how to turn their podcasts into media and get media attention. So talk to me about I'm gonna I'm gonna gold mine here. Okay. And this is what you should be able to do with yourself just purely by practice. Like, you can do this. I've taught myself to do this over the years, like obviously working in radio TV, all that jazz. So, what's the most downloaded podcast that you've had on this?

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Oof, ooh, the profitable pricing one for my solo. So, people don't know how to set prices, they're not making money, they're like basically barely surviving, which is so relevant to what's going on right now, right? Yeah. And I've just built an app that actually goes and does all the prices. Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

She's got 50,000 things ongoing at once. Hey, you use the profitable pricing calculator. It's so good, I still use it. Um, so what so right now we're going into tax, the profiting calculator. What did people say to you about the episode? I had no idea that that's what I had to do. So, where could you? So that if that's the number one podcast episode, that's giving you a lot of clues that, oh, maybe that's something that needs to go to the media. So if I was you, I would transcribe that. And what I'll also say is what was the title of the podcast? The pricing pandemic six steps to setting profitable prices. Okay, yeah. So a little bit boring. Um, but like people obviously could see themselves. And it's SEO friendly. Yeah, but that's what I was gonna say. And also you can see that on like inside small business. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Like, because you've got the formula there, the six, like, so people know what to expect. Talk about the 400 plus businesses that I've done with. I can count on two hands how many of them have actually been profitable. Yeah, which is what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Well, even me, like my agency. It was like once I was hiring all these people and we did it. It was like that's why that's why I stopped it. And like, do you know what I mean? And now it's like rebuilding myself, it's like knowing where the profit is and how I can bring that in. After my tax bill that year, I fucked myself. And so that's um another story for another day. But can you see how it's like the relatable stuff? So there's a couple of angles in there. The first one is it's like what the headline that you had obviously got people in. Yeah. So think about that could be a headline for inside small business. And then what do they need to know about like in that? So what I would do as a really quick hack is I would transcribe that podcast episode. Already got it. Yeah. And then I would turn it into I would go to Heidi Anderson's pitch bot. It's $147 at the moment plus GST. Um, I would go into there. I'm glad you're adding GST. I know, finally I learned my lesson, see? Um, and so then it would, it would actually pull together a pitch for you. And then you wouldn't write the article, but you would be pitching to inside small business and saying, like, this is the issue that I see out of 400 businesses that I've surveyed and worked with, 3% of them are, because like right there you've got stats. Yeah. So to make it newsworthy, it's tax time. Like, how can you not make the same mistake that you made this year and actually become profitable? And then think about the women that we're speaking to too. Like a lot of us feel so much shame. I felt so dumb because I had to bring my husband in and sit him down with our accountant and be like, and he, like for him, it was he's not a businessman, but for him, he just understood the foundation so simply.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

And I was like, gosh, but I have to tell you something. In the profitable pricing calculator, like that was boring, unsexy, because people don't like spreadsheets, even though I tried to make it look like that. No, but it was good, and it's but it's an app now, and you just can put the information, but at the bottom I've got this Girl Math breakdown, and so it says it in Girl Math, like really simple language. Is this good? Is this bad? What do you need to do? And I think that is what's going to set it apart because it's not just some boring putting your numbers in, it's like giving you direction in language you can actually understand.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Yeah, exactly. Because this is what we but we all need. Like women are emotional, and like there's no like we can't, like, we're different to men, like men are logical. And like this is why I hate to say it, a lot of my girlfriends who are fucking brilliant coaches, their husbands are running the businesses behind the scenes and they're the front door, you know? Like that's the truth. But they're good at brand, they're good at creating the city. Oh my god, they're so good at all of the things. But when it comes to like the, and you know, I won't put everyone in that box, but like a lot of the people, the women I know, like we do, because it's like we're so um creative, like you said. Okay, so the app, like then I would be PRing that now. Yeah, I would be like thinking about what I'm doing with that. Like there is a lot of chat around girl math, this, like that kind of stuff. But you know what I mean? Like your podcast episode has given you the biggest clue. Yeah. That that's what people need to hear. That's what they need to do. So transcribe that, put it into a pitch bot or put it through whatever, Claude, whatever you want to do. And then it's like, okay, this where am I gonna, where is this? Like, that is you know, today extra as well, TV. Like they do, because they've got a lot of women sitting at home, like a lot of stay-home mums that are probably creating side hustles, and it's like, this is how you can have these conversations with your partner, know your stuff, so you don't end up, but like get into their their head, and I would use that as a foundation, and then I would turn that into PR tomorrow. Love it. Love it. Yeah, and I think that's the thing. A lot of people go, Oh, but I don't have this, I don't have that. So you've if you have a if you have a business, you've probably probably got an email marketing. What's the number one email that was opened? Like, what headline did you use for that? That gives you a clue right there. What did you talk about in that? What last post on social media went fucking bananas? So for me, I was like, oh my God, this podcast on first-time parents, which we don't even run anymore. But it was like it's Mother's Day this weekend, yeah, was when Griffo, my husband, forgot Mother's Day, my very first one. Oh. And I was absolutely devastated. And then he went to the shop and bought me a fucking candle. And I was like, I don't want your candle. I wanted like recognition. This is my first Mother's Day. I wanted love. I wanted to know that I was a good mum and supported. I would much rather like I'm a ride in a car to give me like the most amazing thing and then send me off on a facial or a massage. Did you see what I did with the lawn mowers?

SPEAKER_01 41:36

No. Oh my gosh. So this exact scenario is my dad every year. He still forgets the anniversary, he forgets like there's always so much going on. Yeah. So I went into Albany Mowden Grown, which is a local Facebook group. Yeah. And I had this screenshot of lawn mowers, and the screenshot basically was cropped, so it just showed up in the square. And then it said, calling all dads of Albany, I need your help with this lawn mower. Like, what size do I get? Does the yard matter? Blah, blah, blah. And then it says, All right, now that we've lost the women, Mother's Day is coming up. If you want to save your marriage, you need to plan ahead. Book him bowling, it's stress-free. It looks like you've gone to thing, we'll give her a bottle of champagne for free. And it went viral. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

So that could have been an article as well. Like, do you know what I mean? Like you could have gone to Albany Advertiser or even the radio station. Like, that's a fun talk break. Like, do you know what I mean? You've got to be creative though. You gotta think about it. You do, like, and that's like that whole getting people, like creating conversation, right? Like, so for me, I was like, well, I'm gonna pitch that on I probably left it too late because Mother's Day stuff they probably were getting month months ago. Like, so I probably left my run too late. Um, but I will tell that story on Sunday. So, like, think of those things that like success leaves clues. So that right there is another clue. Yeah. Like that's and I think people think they've got to create something new, and that's why it feels like hard or I'll wait till another day. Like, no, like you've probably got something sitting there. Last question for your hot takes is Oh my god, are we still on the hot takes?

SPEAKER_01 43:07

I know. So funny. We keep um side questing. What's one piece of advice that someone gave to you early on in your career that you maybe ignored for a while, but then it actually turned out to be so valuable and helpful?

SPEAKER_00 43:21

The first thing that comes to mind is it's miles in the saddle. And by that, it's like when I started Breakfast Radio, uh when I first started our show in Bunbury at Hot FM as Breakfast Radio announcer, I had like a different laugh. I had a different, I wasn't myself. So whenever the microphone turned on, it was like I was some other random, some crazy person overtook my no, not even that. Like over like because it was the nerves and the anxiety and also the worry of judgment and all of these things. And then it was like I someone, I think it was my boss at the Time just kept saying it's miles in the saddle. Like, and so I say this to everyone like when they're PRing themselves, when you're showing up on social media, you won't show your face when you've just started your podcast. Like, you're only going to be the best by continuing to ride. You know what I mean? Like, keep riding that horse, keep whatever it is, like you know, the bull. Um, yeah, it's it's miles in the saddle. Like, that's what's gonna get you. Like, how I became, I went from Breakfast Radio in Bunbury to Perth, capital city, in two years, it's because I kept going. Yeah. I didn't give up. And every day that I was fucking awkward or um wasn't myself on air, I was one step closer to being Heidi on air. And within six months, I'd found my way. And that was because I had to show up five days a week, three hours a day, not knowing what the fuck I was doing, but I did it anyway. And so with social media, it might be you're too scared to show up on stories, but the more you do it, the better you're gonna get. Same with pitching, like, and I said this the other day on my workshop. Honestly, you want to get no's. Like, you want to get rejected. One of the girls, she was on sunrise, and then afterwards she felt like she was getting every no afterwards. And I was like, Yeah, and so you now know like the high, right? And then now you know the disappointment. And it's like most people give up. Then I'm all about exposing yourself, keep going, and miles in the saddle. And that was because when I first started my breakfast radio career, I was like a different person. I would just laugh, like, ha ha ha, like this random laugh. And now I'm like, because I was so nervous and I didn't know what to do, and I was so worried that I would not be able to speak, believe it or not. Like that was my anxiety that I would be like, I don't know, well, I forget what I'm gonna say. And I have mind blanks sometimes, like it's my classic ADHD. I've got perimenopause, like, but I just I just laugh about it now and be like, what was I saying? Like, where was I going? Can you just remind me? Because I've just had a brain fart. Um, and just owning that, and I think like that goes for pitching, that goes for your business, it goes for everything. And I had to remind myself of that just recently. I just had my biggest, two biggest keynote speaking gigs for BankQuest and Alliance Insurance. So they were they were huge, and they were huge because I pedestalled them at the end. Did you pitch to them or not? No, they came through the speaker bureau that I'm with, and speaker bureau? Yeah, the speaker bureau, so through the speaker agency. But for me, like I had to practice every day to be able to do my keynote because I've I've winged it, like that's honest truth. Like I've I've had a natural ability and a stage presence from my career and being a professional broadcaster, but keynote speaking is different. And do you know what I mean? Putting together and thinking about the audience, it's a whole new skill. And so I was like, okay, the only way I'm gonna be the best speaker for these two, and then moving forward is if I practice. Like I just have been invited to speak at a um it rhymes with Ned Um and it's a workshop, and I was practicing on the way here because like, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Miles in the saddle. I do feel that though, because sometimes before a podcast episode, I'll be doing my makeup and I'll just start talking as if I was answering questions or asking questions and just getting in the zone because the more you practice, the less you fumble your words. Yeah. And I found in the early days, I used to do like 150 retakes for that first two sentences of this podcast because I was such a perfectionist, and people go, Oh, you speak so well. And it's like, trust me, I think we're all so hard on ourselves. One thing that I wanted to do differently with today's podcast is to do a live build out of a PR strategy because a lot of the time you hear all these tips and tricks and PR, this and that. But I do believe there's three parts that really need to be mastered in order to successfully leverage it to its full advantage. Yeah. So you got pre-launch, you got launch, and you got post-launch. Yeah. I find most people that I've spoken to, they have an average pre-launch, they go hard in the launch phase, and then they don't even leverage the post-launch to make that create future opportunities. Yeah. So the most requested thing we had from our audience was a service. Yes. And because I know you've been putting up posts about perimetopause, I was thinking, let's think about like a service for women going through perimetopause. Maybe they're getting hot flushes, their skin's going a little bit crazy. So it's some kind of like, I called it the MILF maintenance facial.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Well, just that in itself is PR of like the MILF maintenance, like radio stations would literally be gagging for that. See?

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Well, I should maybe I should be trying more PR things. I feel like they're all in here and they just don't make it out there.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Yeah. But like, do you know what I mean? It's like those conversational things. Okay, so we're doing the MILF MARC pre-launch.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

We've got this MILF maintenance facial. What things do I need to have set up in my business?

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Well, see, this is the thing. I don't fully believe you need to have a landing page, you need to have um, you know, people will say to me, Oh, don't I need to have a social media, don't I need to have a website, don't I need to have no, I had none of that when I started PRing myself. And I built my, because you ought to think, right? Like, yes, there was somewhere I needed to send them for my radio crew. That was our radio show. Yeah. But like, so I don't fully believe that. Other PR agencies might say that's, you know, that you need to have all these things set up, but I actually don't. Like, if you want to build awareness, it's maybe not always about getting the traffic to begin with. It's just getting the awareness in someone else's audience. So save that the m like the what was it? The MILF maintenance. The MILF maintenance. Like, tell me a little bit more about the MILF maintenance, can you? Or tell me more about your problems on very metaphors. God, where do we start? So, like, I was up till 3 a.m. on Tuesday, and then you've got to like do life. Like, you have insomnia, my skin, like I've never had issues with my skin, but I'm starting to get psoriasis.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Um, your hair falls out, like you've got to be. Oh my god, why like do not have a fun ride as women? You don't. And like there's a lot of stuff around like why is it that we are much younger now? I think it's that our parents, our mums, they there was no conversations happening, so they just had to get on with it. So there's so many topics around perimetopause.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Like you're coming in, you're really needing a place to just calm down, relax, and switch off if you can even do that. Yeah. And then you want to get on top of your skin concerns. You feel like you've woken up and aged overnight, or these all these different things going on, whether it's redness or breakouts or sensitivity.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

So, what I would do is say this business is in Perth. Yeah. And say they have a beauty, like um, it's a beauty place in Perth, you will find it hard to like you've got to find the happy medium where it's content for a radio show, TV, and not like salesy, you know what I mean? And like product placement. Um, so what I would personally do in the whilst we're building this together is one, I would document everything so that you've got footage. So if they, if you do get it on TV, if you do get it on radio, if you do get it in a magazine or whatever, you've got some behind the scenes of like building it, talking about it, but then also you should be using that on your um all your marketing and everything anyway. All that jazz. But what I would do is I would go to market and I would be like, okay, so who is in their 40s or 50s in Perth that is talking about perimenopause? And I would look for influencers, so at underscore Heidi Anderson. Um, I would look for people who have written books on perimenopause. So and I would think like, who's talking about it on social media? So there'll be kind of like the influencer side, one bucket, social media, um, author, like influencers like Heidi Anderson and then authors. And then I would go like, okay, TV, radio, Kimba on Mix. Like, she's one of my old radio sisters. She's in her 40s. She would a hundred percent. Now I don't listen to the show, so I'm not sure if she's talked about it, but she would a hundred percent be having perimenopausal stuff. So I would clock in. Has she talked about it? Is she sharing it? Um, Nat, who is on Nova, she's I think in her 50s. Love you, Nat, if you listen to this. Um, but like there, this is how I would be starting. Tracy's Vogue through it. She's just gone through, she's just had her baby, she's about to go back to nine news as a new mum. Like, has she talked about any of this? So that's how I would be doing my research. And then I would also be finding journalists, like for STM magazine, all of the things in Perth, and I would be like, who has here has written about perimenopause or menopause, or in the beauty section or whatever? And then I would send them a MILF, like some kind of like, how can we grab their attention?

SPEAKER_01 52:55

Something that captured my attention the other day was actually seeing the divorce rates. They are so high with women going through peri and menopause. Perimenopause, menopause, like whatever you want to call it. Yeah. And so tying that in, and then it's like you need to come in to get that so.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Well, so I just did someone's her books called Wendy Talks About Menopause, and we just did like a whole bunch of stuff because the divorce rates are so high. And so for her book, we targeted like her and her husband, like we're doing the thing together because she he's like stayed with her because he was took her to therapy and was like, we're gonna get divorced because like this fuck is crazy. So that's why she's written the book. So we did we did play into that kind of stuff, and that makes it news and trendy, right? There is a lot of conversations going on at the moment, so that's why I would find someone that's talking about it, and then bring them a new angle, which is like say for Kimber. It's like, well, then how could they make that content on air? Like, because that's funny, like the MILF. I mean, she's not a mum, but like she's a stepmom, like the MILF angle. Do you know what I mean? And so on radio, they might start to play with like, what does a MILF mean? Like, do you have do you know a MILF? 13, 10, 60, like, do you know what I mean? And so then you let them create the content on the show. Maybe you might pay for an influencer like myself or someone who's written a book to do a behind the scenes of the MILF, um, MILF maintenance. And then that's how I would spend the research phase, which so I kind of put it into three blocks research, um, writing, and then pitching. Yeah. So another thing would be if there is someone writing for STM that's beauty and all that kind of stuff, like how they probably get hit up by plenty of beauty therapists, like with they've got products, they've got this, like, because everyone thinks they're changing the world, and you probably are. But like, how can you get the people that matter to get your message out there? So, say for example, one of my clients, she does flowers and she does these amazing bouquets, and she had this really cool story. So, we sent the journalist the flowers. People who ever got my attention in Breakfast Radio, they sent me something. They didn't send me an email that was fucking boring. They sent me something in the post that I could physically open, and then I would always call them. Whether they made it to the show or not, I would always call them and thank them. So they either got on the show or they built a relationship with me.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

You know what's funny? I've built a relationship, but I still don't get on the show. Like Matt's like, not that angle, not that one. But I don't think you're for this. And then he's like, This is who you need to contact. So it does work out for him.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Yeah, but that's what I mean. You've now got someone who literally pushes you into ideas who's in the media every day. So I would think for that, then like how can you grab their attention with the MILF maintenance? Like, yeah, so if and that would be you going deeper on like how, like, what could you send them? Do you know what I mean? Like, there's so many things that I've been sent and I've sent myself to get people's attention. What would you like to receive, Hardy? Well, that's the thing. Is it like something to do with hot flushes? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, could you send them a bottle of water and like as a bit of a joke and be like, this isn't gonna help you at the night time? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, but that's like face ice cube things together. Like, but do you know what I mean? Like, so that kind of stuff. And then I would, like, with regards to that, then I would go, okay, once you all you need is one yes. And then if it's something that's like really interesting, like that, that could get people talking, like, because MILF means mother I'd like to fuck. Like, that's what a MILF means. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, going through pair of menopause and menopause, I probably don't feel like the mother I'd like to fuck. I also have thrush, and I also have no libido. So, do you know what I mean? Like, so then there's conversations around that. And it's like, well, how are you gonna get my libido back with this MILF maintenance? Yeah. You know what I mean? So there's like the hormone supplements or something. Yeah, but like, so do you know what I mean? And then it's like the continued, you just need one really interesting angle to come from it. And it might be that you have to test a few of these differently, but I would always put um influencers and authors, like people who are passionate about these topics, coaches, like they're the people, like maybe it's not traditional media. Maybe it's you know, you going on social media and finding like three authors that have written about menopause, and then you're like, okay, how can I align with them? Because they've already got the audience. Totally. And then that's how I think a lot of people think PR it's just traditional media and it's podcasting, like and new media, that's what I talk about, which is socials and all that, and then there's traditional. With this, sorry, because I'm like So you need a budget. Well, this is the thing like I agencies charge $5 to 10k a month, and that I was charging $5k a month. But you weren't even making money, which I feel like because I had other people working because I was getting so many people in, and also like that's something self-worth for me. Like, I hadn't done enough work on myself, and I feel like I've got to because PR isn't guaranteed.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

But PR is also one of those things that it is expensive, and then if you don't have the right person, yeah, like I know you get incredible results. You're so good. But I won't always get results, like that's the truth. Like, not everything will work. But some people will spend 30 grand and it's like it's not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

Yeah. And it's like see that for me was like where I couldn't let go of it, and so then I would bring someone else in, or like, you know, and we would brainstorm or whatever. I didn't probably trust myself enough, and like you know, and my results and all that is part of the work that I've done on myself. Um, but I would say, like, that's true. A lot of people pay five to 10k a month, and then they're like, what the fuck? Like, what are they even doing? And I don't even get the relationships, I don't even all of that kind of stuff. So I would say do it yourself. And that's what I teach in my program. Honestly, it doesn't matter. Pitch them a publicist, or you can come to my PR day. My next one in Perth is the 27th, Wednesday, the 27th of one of May. Oh, May. So in three weeks, so I don't know if this will be out. But the my program is pitched like a publicist, and that's what I teach people to do. So invest in something like that. I give you direct access to all of my contacts, and I give you direct access to me to workshop that stuff, and then I teach you in the modules how to do it. But even if you were ready for an agency, I would say educate yourself on PR so you understand it, so you know to ask the right questions. You can say to them, well, so yeah, what are you doing? And can I do this? Because a lot of the time, agencies, they'll try and change who you are. They'll go with their angles, they'll go with just their contacts. And when you get to do it yourself, it's a shortcut that you get to learn. Like I've spent 20 years working it out, and now I've got the formula and I know what to do and I've got the contacts. But find, even if it's not me, find someone that you can learn from. And then if you are ready to invest on that higher level, you know exactly what they're doing. And then you can also be like, hey, can you show me that pitch just so I can check and see if there's any way that I can think of it differently? Because the truth is no one will sell your story or you better than you.

SPEAKER_01 59:39

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you're saying, and I feel the same way about social media. Don't outsource it. Oh, yeah. Like learn it, understand it so that if someone's doing a good job, you can recognize it, but if they're doing a bad one, you can cut them off. Yeah. Because if you don't have any idea about anything, you'll just keep handing over those dollars, hoping that something's gonna work out when maybe they're not the right person for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Fuck, I've done it for so many things in my business. And like, where do I even start? Like, so many things that I'm like, why the fuck did I spend money on that? Because I didn't think I did that with coaches because I didn't believe in myself. Yeah, you know, and same. And like I've got two, like, I'm in two great coaching programs, and then you know, one of the things that I'm on my own development journey at the moment is like discernment and going like, okay, they're there for advice. And it's the same with me when I teach people, like I'm just giving you advice. I'm not telling you exactly what to do. Like sometimes when I'm adamant, because I'm like, I know there's all my work, like I'll really try and push you in that direction. But at the end of the day, we have to trust ourselves. And that's the work for me. I'm having my psych appointment this weekend about that. Yay! But yeah, so that was that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

Do we need to workshop that anymore? So with the Mills maintenance. What about the pitching side of things? So, how are you thinking about okay, who do I pitch to, how do I pitch? So it's getting intentional with the platform, the person.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

Yeah. So the same kind of thing, like when you're in that research phase, like I said, if you're going Kimber at Mix, if you're going Nat at Nova, um, if you're going Heidi Anderson on Instagram or one of the authors or whatever, consume their stuff. Know that they've talked about it, know what they're doing, and then grab their details. How are you gonna contact them and start building your own little list as you do that? And then when it gets to like the writing phase, that's when it's like thinking about those outside the box ideas. Can I send something? Can I do this? Oh, I've already got their address. Like most of the time, buy the fucking paper. Like people literally go, like, how am I gonna get their details? If you don't buy, like, if you buy the paper, you'll see that most journalists will have their email or their Twitter or X, whatever the fuck it's called, like on in the newspaper. If you go on LinkedIn, if you literally just Google it, like they're online and then start writing that down so that when you actually pitch, you've got everything ready to go. And then again, probably buy my pitch bot or come into my program. However, if you're not there or you don't have time, you know, you you want to do it with your own team and you think you're right on your own after this episode, then I would think, like, how am I gonna really grab their attention? Is it, do I send her a video message, hiding a video message? Do I send um, you know, I I watch Kim, I listen to Kimber on radio, like thinking about it, she's she's audio. Like, do I just send her a voice message? Yeah. Do I send the show an email with a personal video? Like, how can I grab her attention? Can I send her that thing in the post? The STM contact. Can like so, think about how you're gonna do it. And then that goes into the pitching phase, which is the other part of the formula that I teach, and then always follow up. If you're not following, like most of my yeses for pitching come from a follow-up.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:48

How many follow-ups though? Because sometimes it's like, I know you've got okay, do like five. Yeah. And then other people are like, oh, I don't want to do more than two, you know. What when do you know to not be a stalker and what's okay? Don't be a fucking pussy.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

Like, just send the message like again and again. But I would stop at three or four. And I know most of my, and that it's a there's an art to it. It's not like, hey, like just blah, blah, blah. Can you bring it in a new angle? Can you be like, hey, I don't know if you saw this in the news, but I did send this pitch last week. This is happening in the news right now. It could be something really I'm I'm sure you probably miss this because your emails have blown up. Um, and then what usually happens if they've if they've noticed your third or fourth email, even if they say no, they'll send you an email back and be like, hey, this is a pass for now. Like you'll get a lot of passes. They'll say, Oh, yeah. Do you reply back to the same email thread? Or just a hundred percent. Unless you're like, oh shit, I don't know if I fucked that pitch. Sent the wrong name. Yeah, or whatever, then send a new one and send a freshy.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

But like honestly, most of the time, and this is the thing I just had um the one of the producers from today extra in my program. So that's what I give people access to contacts. So sometimes they don't even need to pitch in an email. They I literally bring them to them. What she said is some days it might just be, it's not personal, but she might have just had to say no because she's had so many emails, she probably didn't even read it, but she's like, hey, not right now, because she's hoping that you're gonna come back. Or what they do is they file stuff. Like one of my clients was two years after we sent a pitch. She was contacted. Like she thought she was ghosted, you know, never to be, and now she's a regular on their show. So I think the thing is like follow up three to four times and make it like you could add a different line in there, or like, and I always say, okay, this is the final message I'm gonna send. I'll take it as a no, but I'll be back in your inbox soon. Have a great day. So they know like you're coming back, you're coming back with something new. And then if you do get a no back or a not right now, or um, a question, that's the start of a relationship. You just say thank you for your time. Yeah, and like, but also just like, oh, cool. So if this wasn't a yes, like would you be more interested in this? You know, and then you could start a new, but it's like the start of a relationship, or hey, because that was a no, do you have any feedback? And like, what are you looking for? So, say for mama mia, I always go to them and I'm like, what's popping right now in Mamma Mia? Oh, it's all about relationships. So, okay, cool. What relationship topic do I have? Put it into my pitch bot. I literally used my own pitch bot the other day, and it pulled out a story that I forgot that I had, like, because by the questions that it asked you, and I was like, oh my God. And then I got published in Mamma Mia. It was a, you know, that me and Hubby use this game called the headline game and we need to communicate and understand each other. We give each other headlines, and that went nuts. And so I think it's like knowing and like that's how you can build a relationship. If you're too scared to send a pitch to Sammy, maybe even you could send her a message today and just be like, Hey, Sammy, like I loved the podcast with Heidi or a voice.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

If we did have someone say, Hey. This is what I'm struggling with. I mean, this is what I've done. This is what I've struggled with, and here's how I overcame it. I recently attended Heidi's pitch day. So I was like, interesting. But like, do you know what I mean? So it's like But that was a good pitch.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

It wasn't like, okay, immediately delayed. Yeah, but it's like, but they're starting to see, like, build those relationships. So, but you can also give people feedback. You can also one of the girls in my program asked a question the other day. She has a podcast, and she said, I get so many shitty pitches, and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, but are you teaching people how to pitch to your show?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:34

I actually gave one person who pitched, I can talk about anything. And I said, firstly, you didn't even say hello to me. Secondly, I don't need everything. I need one really good angle or piece of value. And thirdly, like, have you actually listened to an episode? Weirdly enough, she'd already been interviewed as a guest, and she, I don't think she'd even listen to another episode. So then when she was pitching again, I'm like, hang on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:57

But like my thing would be like have a booking form, like have a pitch form.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

Do you know what I mean? I've got a little message now that I send out. Yeah. And I think that also takes a lot of the emotion out of it. It's like, thank you so much for reaching out if you can send these points to this email.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:12

Yeah, because like the truth is, like sometimes people don't know what to do, and they might have a VA or they're true, you know, they're trying to do 50,000 things, juggling, whatever, and they don't realize there's an art to it. And so it's like, well, how can you take ownership? And this is what I said to the girl in my program, how can you, it's your fucking podcast, bro? Like, um, that's what kid says to me at the moment, he's six, like, bro, I'm like, I'm your mum.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:34

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:35

But I'm like, you've got it's your responsibility. Yeah. Like, so teach them how to pitch for your show.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

And when you're in that launch phase and you are getting the PR, the article goes out, the podcast comes out. What do you need to actually do to make the most of it? Because I've had some people come onto the podcast, they don't share it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

Oh God, they're doing themselves a disservice.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

Not even you, but like themselves. But then also other times, like I've had media and I've gone, okay, cool. I'm gonna leverage this in my next awards application. I'm gonna put this here, I'm gonna go to that person. So, like, what do you do in that launch phase to make the most out of it? Because it's a lot of effort sending out these pictures and following up. You want to make the most of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

Oh, okay. So, firstly, always accept the collaborator post. But I would say, like, for Sammy, I would say I have like a preference of if you want me to be collab on this, is can you make sure I'm in the shot? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, so but you're allowed to say that. It's my fucking Instagram. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, you're allowed to say the same thing if you're going on someone, because of course I'll share. Like, if it's just of you, then it looks gonna look weird just on my page. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

Like, and also opposite branding. I actually intentionally made this branding very neutral because if I had green going onto everyone's feet and yours is pink, it's yeah, it's not great.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:51

Yeah, but like, do you know what I mean? It could just be a cover photo. Like, I've messaged people back and gone, I'll collab on this. Can you just make the cover photo me and you? Yeah. Like, even if it's a fun selfie or whatever, do you know what I mean? So that would be the first thing I would do. Like, if you're this I say this to everyone, if you're pitching yourself to the media, if you are going on podcasts and you are not leveraging it through your own pages, stop pitching. You're wasting your fucking time. Like, because the truth is, like, most people who are going to buy from you or come into your audience, they're already in your email list, they're already on your social media, they're already in your world. And so they just need that next level of like, oh, she's the real deal to actually see it and and play into that psychology. So I always talk about documenting like a Kardashian. So I'm gonna go out in the car after this and I'm gonna document some stuff. I'll do some behind the scenes when we're in here. Like if I've got time between you and if you're not doing another guest, like I'll do some socials behind here. So then I've got some stuff. Yeah. And then I've got it, right? But if you're, like I said, the same thing, if you're pitching to a newspaper tomorrow, Sammy's gonna pitch the newspaper for the MILF maintenance, then document that. Like I'm about to send my pitch and this is what I've done, and blah, blah, blah. Like, take everyone on the journey with you. They like want to be in your corner. They're your but it's also really advertising your thing at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

We did that for Wild West Bowling. We documented the entire build. We had 5,000 followers before we even launched, and that's why we were booked out from the moment we opened our doors. I think this is actually a really important point to speak on because there's a lot of new businesses, there's a lot of new product launches, services, like so much is happening in today's world. But I think investment is just one piece of the puzzle, but now you need audience. And if you don't have an audience to launch to, yeah, then you could have the best thing in the world, but who's gonna buy it?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:44

Okay, so this is what I would say borrow someone else's audience. So for my book, right? I felt like I didn't know when I was releasing my book, Drunk on Confidence, I didn't know how I was gonna talk about this new way of confidence because I'd talked about the other way so many times, like the shed your shit movement and all the things that I did. I'm not gonna go into detail, but um, I was like, okay, but to go on TV, like I need to feel confident in what I'm actually talking about, this new way that I've like written about in my book, but I hadn't talked about it a lot, right? But I'd just been living it. So I went on podcast after podcast after podcast. 20 plus podcasts, and every single one I got closer to what I was gonna say when I pitched to the media. I also, success leaves clues, anything anyone was sending me about the podcast, I was like, okay, that's something that's relatable, this, that. So I was kind of doing my research whilst I was doing it. Where I fucked up was I didn't give the host a link to my wait list for my book. Uh yeah So do you know what I mean? So you've got the bowling alley or you've got the MILF maintenance, whatever, go on the podcast, like building this MILF maintenance, go on Perimenopausal Podcast, Menopausal Podcasts, and then have the wait list to be the first to know, to be the first to know, to be the first to know. Because you know, everyone's always like, oh, it's in the show notes, but like like I just had my Instagram. They're gonna forget about me when my book comes out in a year. But if I got their details when they were feeling it in the moment, then they could have been the first people I sent my book to. So I think that's the way that you can start to think of leveraging it without having your own audience. And then the big thing that I'm super passionate about is own your own narrative. So, say if you got front page of the Albany Advertiser like he did, then everyone's gonna be coming to your page after that, right? Like on your bowling alley. So I would have jumped on there with your dad, I would have jumped on a live with Bruce, and I would have owned the narrative. Like, um, or you know, when it was on Seven News or GWN7 or whatever it was, and they talked about like the cost of living, like you could have got, you could have got some of those box box pops and put it on yourself. Like, do you know what I mean? And like, hey, actually, you know, love. Oh, this channel seven, like love, you know, new contact. But they probably like, you know, changed the angle a little bit. But like, but do you own it? Yeah, yeah, own it, but like in that moment, and then so people come, and then also like, do you have an offer for them for the bowling alley? Yeah right at that moment, like meet your dad, meet your mum. So then instantly they've seen it on the news, they've come to the page, and like, oh my god, I love those guys. Like, and then it's like cool, I'm gonna book in. So I always say, like, own the shit out of it, and then you go to every landing, every landing page, every website, what do they lead with? What's at right at the top under their banner, as seen in? Yes. That's so simple. Get the logo. Yeah. Wherever you were, pop it on there. And then I always like on the front page of mine, you know, my website. I have one of my favorite pieces of, you know, to camera was when I was on Studio 10 and I got everyone in their bra and undies and we were swimming at the beach, and I did a 10-minute live cross. And I was in my element, like on TV, and it was funny, and there was a crazy moment that happened where one of the girls was running to the beach, she fell over live on TV, and I'm like picking her up. And that's a huge piece of credibility. But anyone who comes to my page to see me, they know my vibe. Any media, when I pitch again, they're like, oh, she's good talent. Because what you want a producer, a TV person, whatever, you want them to go like, oh, she's good talent. Yes. Or he's good talent, or they're good talent. Because and by that I mean that you can hold yourself, you can have a conversation, you know how to talk. If you're pitching for TV and you don't have anything to camera on your page or a live or anything, like you're probably not gonna get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:27

See, I've had a lot of yeses because over time I've become the easy choice. Yeah. And what I mean by the easy choice is professional branding images, a bio, podcast that they can binge watch and see that exactly what you're saying, how you speak. If you don't have those things, sometimes they might be like, yes, but if it takes too long to get all that information to them, then you shoot yourself in the foot because they haven't got time. So as you start to think more about your PR journey, it's great to build up a folder. You've just got everything ready to go, and you can add in new little snippets, videos, photos, headshots, update your bio regularly. Like, don't send one that's like super irrelevant that you used two years ago and you've achieved so many new things. Yeah. Like I'm always revisit and just go, okay, cool, how can I improve this?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

Yeah. And I think maybe you could be my VA for my PR assistant, like get me organized as well. I'm like such an ADHD. Like, oh, well, who am I here today? I want to make something up. Like, um, but yeah, it's like being prepared, like you said, having photos, having yourself to camera, and then like just like don't if you're not going to cheer about your appearance on TV or on radio and make the collab post or whatever it is, or share the article, like you might get your next article because you've shared it on your stories and it goes nuts because it's got so many hits, they're like, we're coming back to her. Yes. Like, so share the shit out of it. That's all I'll have to say. Like, share the absolute shit out of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:56

And so we've shared the shit out of it. What are the opportunities that can come from this PR?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:04

Well, sometimes the opportunity might come straight away. It's blown up online, and then a radio station sees it, and then everyone starts talking about it, it becomes this trending topic. It's happened, you know, like, and then it's like all of a sudden what used to be the project at nighttime has called you because they've seen you on sunrise in the morning, it's blown up in the day on news.com, done all these things. And then it's like, oh, well, we want to get her on here and we want to get them, you know, on this station and this radio station, and that can just happen organically. Yep. Um, that doesn't happen all the time. I reckon probably five percent of people that I've worked with, that's happened. For me, it's happened to a few things because I've got the credibility of a media, you know, media experience and things that have blown up. They do seek you out though, sometimes. Like when I got selected for Miss Universe, I was in the Albany Advertiser, then I had GWN come to me and they found me on Facebook, sent me a message, and then I was on Perth News, and it was like because what they do is say for me, like I got asked to go on the project to talk about not having a baby number two, and that was three years I shared that article, like a written article for Mamma Mia, three years before that. So when they find a topic that they want to go all in on, they'll research through TikTok, they'll look at all the places. Now, if you've already sent a pitch, where's the first place they're gonna look? Their own email, their own inbox. Like it's why Tam got a call two years later, because they could have found her online, but think about all the people online. Oh, yeah. So they went straight to their inbox. They didn't write back to her at the time, but they went straight to their inbox of because you've got to think, they're building their own contacts list. So they might not respond to you, but they're saving it in an inbox. So this is why just pitch, even if you get a no, like, do you know what I mean? So, but yeah, like the thing is things live online forever. Your stuff on social media, like it's more searchable now with AI and Google and all that kind of stuff. But the truth is they'll want to see that you've been in the media first.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:56

Oh, absolutely. When I was putting together a few different things for awards, PR does significantly help because when you look at awards, it's one thing for you to say it, but then in the public eye, if other people are seeing it, yeah, I think that makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:12

Well, you're borrowing someone else's credibility and you're borrowing someone else's audience. Like those are this is why it needs to be part of your plan and what exactly what you're saying. And although you might think the media gives you the ick, it might piss you off, blah, blah, blah, all the things that we spoke about at the start, they don't think like that. No. They're just like, oh, Channel 9 news have had her on TV, or this, like, she's written an article for news.com, they've had her, like all of those tick, tick, tick.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:40

Unless you actually know how it worked behind the scenes. Yeah. You just go, whoa, look at that, you know? Yeah. Until you understand the news cycles and the pitching and the whole process. Only do you realise, oh, okay, that's how it works. But if I saw, well, I did. I used to see you on the radio when I well hear you on the radio when I was a kid. What FM baby, I've still got a tattoo on my ass. I remember that. I heard that going on in the background. Like I literally, this is before I was on all the So Fresh and Triple J C D's because my parents had jute boxes. But I just remember those kind of moments. And then when did I meet you in person? Tim and Stuff 20. Yeah. And I was like, Yeah, what? Yeah. And then you start to realize all these people are just people as well. Yeah. And I think you put them on this big pedestal, but when you meet them, you're like, they're they were down here, and they just kept trying. Yeah. And they kept building. And it's like, if they can, why not me? A hundred percent. And and another thing is just like the amount of reps. Like, you've just put in a considerable amount of reps over time and time. It's like, how can you fail if you just keep trying?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:46

Yeah, and like I always think this is my mindset is I've been rejected before, I know what rejection feels like. So sometimes that sucks. However, every single awesome opportunity for me has come from probably most of the time a rejection. Yeah. Like in my whole career. That rejection is redirection. Yeah, whatever. I didn't think about it that.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:06

But like genuinely, I had like what's the worst rejection you've ever had, and then the best outcome that came from it?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:12

Um, was probably, oh, there's so many. Like I was rejected on Big Brother 10 times before I got on. And then I why did you choose? Like, why did you keep going? Why Big Brother? I just had this like bucket list. It was like a bucket list. I needed to do it. Like I had this obsession of like, I want to be in that. Like ever since I was little, I manifested it. Is that still a thing, Big Brother?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:34

Yeah, they're bringing it back. Wow. I know Love Island is now the thing that everyone's kind of on. No, it's like everything against what I believe in, but I can't stop watching it. Yeah. I feel like that whole thing with Love Island is just gonna it normalizes bad dating behaviors and people to stay in these like toxic relationships. But then it's so clickbait, everyone's like I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:58

I will like I'll I'll I'll have a conversation with you about this and offer you my perspective. The thing about Love Island, reality shows, housewives, any of those is they have to have communication afterwards, right? To stay together in these houses, you have to confront stuff, you have to be confident, you have to use your voice. A lot of the time we don't do that, they would have just been ghosted on social media. Whereas they've got to step into this, like I'm obsessed with the human behavior of it all. Yeah. Like that's why I watch everything. Like But they always have the same story arc, they know their characters, they need to think about that. And I want everyone to think about that. Why is Love Island, maths, and all that so successful? Because they do the same thing over and over again, which is what most ADHD people don't do, and which is why most of us fail in business. Because we try to do all these different things when we could just follow the same thing. Yeah, but that would be boring. I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:52

But also it's not like people love it. Before we wrap up today's episode, do you have any last words of wisdom or a piece of advice that you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:01

You know, like my whole philosophy is exposing yourself. You know, like that's the whole thing. Like I do exposure therapy, which is like literally what they do to overcome anxiety, phobias, fears. And so one of the things that scared me, as I said earlier, is that I'm gonna die. No, we're all gonna die. But if you can like one of the things that you can do to actually live your life and to achieve your goals and your dreams and everything you want is to imagine yourself on your deathbed. And are you gonna sit there and be like, oh fuck, I worried about like what I looked like um on the beach that day. No, you're gonna be like, oh my god, because you didn't give a fuck about what you were wearing, or you're gonna look back and go, oh my god, that moment with my family when we watched the sunset. I'll never forget that. Or I went for this and I had the best fucking podcast in Australia. And like I got to speak to these amazing people, like that's the shit that you're gonna lay on your dead deathbed and think, right? Not like all the stuff that we worry about that lasts, you know, that we that feels so big at the time. So one of the things I did, and uh like it was following this death doula was just thinking about like what is it like when you get to the end of your life? What are you gonna remember? What are you gonna be proud of? Who who's gonna be there? And so that for me is why I continue to do the stuff that I do. I sometimes with the ADHD brain go off and do things and have to bring myself back with that and the why. So I think um, yeah, it's scary, like thinking like that, because we all want to live to where a hundred or just never die, right? Um, but I think when you start to think about that, it's like what's important, and you know, like just it makes you think like, yeah, who gives a fuck if I get rejected by the guy at the radio station? Like, really, who cares? Do you know what I mean? Because it's like life is so short, and you get one chance and one opportunity, and like my dad has dementia at the moment, and you know, he's got Louis body, and it's so beautiful and hard and sad and everything, but it makes me want to live my life so much more and do the things that I want to do, and so I think you just have to get out there and and do it. And when you're doubting yourself, think about yourself on your deathbed. Very powerful. Do we need to like say a joke now?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:25

Because it's like, I'm gonna cry, fuck, I'm scared. No, I totally feel that on every level. I think I remember replying to one of your stories because my grandpa has dementia and he just went so downhill. And I remember that moment of dad doing a speech in front of everyone at bowling, going, you know, this is in memory of what I had growing up with my dad, but he's never gonna be able to see this because he's at that stage. And I think there's so many realizations in my life that it's like everyone's like, why do you do so much? And I'm like, because you don't know when you're gonna die. Yeah. And also, secondary, you don't know if you're gonna remember it. So I love documenting it and I love looking back on all the memories, the videos, the podcasts, because those are pieces of information or our experiences that we get to relive. And this whole thing about your memories, your memories are not actually the memory of the time, it's your last time remembering a memory. Yeah. So if you don't look back on things regularly, then you start to lose them. I think all of us can, instead of just trying to live in the future and getting so caught up in that, like be in the moment and be present.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:35

Yeah, yeah. Like you have been for listening to this podcast. 100%. Totally not distracted by anything else in life.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:43

Heidi, if someone wants to come and find you, stalk you, learn how to pitch.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:49

Well, we'll obviously put um the links to my next workshop online, which is um how to, if you're a coach and you've got a podcast, how to turn it into media attention. So we'll put that in the link in bio. Um, uh, you know, what is it? Link in show notes. Show notes. My brain is like, we're switched off now. Um but just follow me on Instagram at underscore Heidi Anderson, or if you want to find my me on my website, heidileanderson.com.au.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:14

Amazing. Thank you so much for all your value. I really appreciate it. If you've loved today's episode, please leave a comment on your favorite key takeaway and make sure you subscribe to YouTube because we're trying to grow this.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:26

Yeah, and like, do you know how hard it is to grow a podcast? So please subscribe. It shows your support, but also it means that Sammy can get bigger guests, have different opportunities for you by subscribing and being a fan of the show. 100%. I really felt like DRM CEO. That was like the whole wrap up. Like, own it. Subscribe.