13┃ Q&A: Dog Breeding Knowledge Check

Thinking of breeding your dog but unsure where to start or worried about making a mistake?

In this episode, we address some of the most common myths and mistakes found in breeding forums, from misconceptions about natural matings to the risks of early vaccinations and poor socialisation timing. We break down why “I’m not a breeder” isn’t a free pass, what really goes wrong with novice pairings, and why tools like mating cradles have no place in ethical breeding.

If you’re looking for clear, experience-based guidance that fits your breed, background and breeding mindset, join the Brew Crew and get the support you need to start strong and raise better litters.

📌 Show notes – breedersbrew.com/notes/s2e13

🔗 Take the Dog Breeding Knowledge Checker –  caninefamilyplanner.com/knowledgecheck

📩 Email questions to podcast@breedersbrew.com

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Transcript

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Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (00:22)
we're really excited to be bringing you another Q &A session where we are collating some of the most common questions we see asked online, whether that be in Facebook groups or other forums. And we're gonna weigh in a little bit on what we think to those questions

and add a little bit of glitter, a little bit of our opinions in there as well. And hopefully we can all learn a little bit along the way like we always like to. I am back again as your host, Isabelle the Canine Nutrition Coach, and I'm joined by the fabulous

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (00:50)
The outstanding, the amazing, the unbeatable, Sara Lamont, the Canine Family Planner. Yay!

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (00:59)
So we know how this format works. Why don't we get going with the question, Sara?

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (01:04)
Yeah, I'm lined up. I'm ready to go. I'm in the group. I'm looking at the question and it says, Hi guys. I'm not a breeder, but I want my female border collie to have one litter. We also have a male and they've lived together for a year. This is a third heat cycle, which began in December and we're letting things happen naturally. Our female usually dominates and the male was submissive.

But lately, he's been weighing her down, keeping us away, trying to mate, and she's fighting back. Sounds lovely. Could she be resisting him because they're our housemates? How do I calm him? He stopped eating and drinking. Lots of questions within a question there.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (01:47)
Yeah, I don't think that's as simple as the final two questions she's asked on the end. I think she's asking for a lot more information there than maybe she even realises.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (01:56)
Mm.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (01:58)
So obviously this is someone that's new to breeding because they've referred to themselves as not a breeder. So that is somebody who sees himself as a dog owner that just wants to have puppies. But obviously it goes without saying the definition of a dog owner that has a litter of puppies is a breeder. There is nothing wrong with breeding and the process of breeding if you're doing it correctly.

I feel a little bit sad for them that they didn't want to own that title, that they're going into it and doing their best because they're in the groups, they're engaging, they're trying to learn, so let's help them learn.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (02:29)
The breeder that doesn't want to say they're a breeder is breeding. if you, it's very strange mental gymnastics that goes on about this title of breeder.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (02:34)
is breeding.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (02:45)
and not claiming it. And I think it's for numerous reasons for some reason people think that if you say you're a breeder, then you're some professional breeder and that your only motivation then is for profit. And I think that's why a lot of people shy away from that title because it gives a perception of something that they're not.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (02:58)
Hmm.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (03:08)
And then I think it also means that there are some expectations that come with that title.

that people don't want to adhere to or meet. And so they feel if they don't say that they're a breeder, then they can get away with not meeting those expectations. So it's sad and disappointing because they are still breeding puppies. Puppies do exist from them. And yeah, it might not be routinely, but...

they have created something and are passed it on to the next person to look after. they have a responsibility to claim that title and to reach those bench. Yeah, yeah, exactly. say, yeah, like, and I guess, and this is where I think you have the subsets of breeders. It was, I'm a show breeder, I'm a hobby breeder, I'm a this breeder, I'm with that breeder. But yeah, there should be a minimum.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (03:45)
Yeah. Wear it with pride.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (04:03)
requirement of expectations, regardless of what you fall into. so it's interesting. they are a breeder, they want to breed their dog and bitch together. And they did, to be fair, they have done edit to add, and they put not an experienced breeder. So they've changed it from not a breeder to not an experienced breeder. Because I assume without looking at the comments, a lot of people have said exactly what he just said.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (04:28)
Yes, most

definitely.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (04:30)
But let's go back to the matter in hand. So they have the male, they have the female. There's no comment about whether compatibility in regards to health testing.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (04:36)
Yeah.

No, no mention. So let's assume that they've done that and that they're a perfect match for each other's faults and otherwise.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (04:47)
Let's assume. Yeah,

yeah, let's assume that. And so they're having the issue about the female usually being dominant. And that tends to be the case when you have females and males. The females will always rule the roost. And I think she's older, isn't she? Oh, they've lived together for a year, so we don't know who's older.

But yeah, she's ruling the roost and then suddenly they're expecting the dynamics to change. Now she's in season and that her dynamics could change because she is hormonal driven. But then because the boy's been put in his place and been told off, he suddenly has to develop this alter ego that he's then gonna mate her and be confident in doing that when at every single point in his life up until that point he hasn't been allowed to.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (05:39)
There's a lot to unpick actually because like you said it says there they've lived together a year but the bitch is on her third season so I'm actually gonna somewhat safely assume that the bitch is the older of the two here suggesting the male only actually might be a year old as well so he's still not potentially an adolescent male

and a very intelligent breed. So I think you've got two things to pick here. That's a young dog who's a maiden, clearly never mated a bitch before. And they've said themselves, they're not an experienced breeder. This is their first litters. This is also a maiden bitch. So you've got a novice owner expecting two maiden dogs to mate together. Not to mention the fact the male is potentially still quite young minded himself as well.

It doesn't surprise me that she's turning to this Facebook forum for a bit of support she's battling some odds here.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (06:30)
Hmm. Yeah, no one's got a clue what they're literally everyone's like, I don't know. But the benefits is she can read and she's got online access and she can ask a Facebook group. They haven't yet developed dexterity that they can type on a Facebook group.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (06:34)
No, all parties involved are novices. Where do you want me to put it? When? How?

Yes, thank goodness.

Absolutely, if

only they had maybe they might have got somewhere a little bit quicker because as we all know generally it's a known thing that a maiden pairing isn't always the best option if you're hoping for a natural mating unless you've got a very experienced stud handler on hand if you've got somebody that's overseen several natural matings before and is very experienced on exactly how to handle

dogs in that situation, that's going to help. However, as we always know, timing is of the essence when it comes to mating, isn't it Sara?

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (07:30)
Yeah, it certainly is. Yeah. It's all about, all about identifying ovulation and then making sure that the mating happens at the optimal correct time. So there is no forced breedings. There is no trauma endured that could have a huge impact on both parties. Yeah. it could be damaging physically for them, let know mentally. So ovulation testing is

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (07:41)
Yep.

Yep. Yep.

both dogs.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (07:57)
really, really important. I mean, this has got loads of dynamics going on because I just don't like some of the wording that's been used about he's been weighing her down, keeping us away, trying to mate she's fighting back. If you describe that in any, if you wrote that in any other way, and just didn't mention it was dogs, people be like, Hey, this sounds kind of wrong.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (08:10)
It's intense.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (08:18)
and obviously they're just assuming natural instincts is going to take over and they're just going to work it all out. But they could be doing some serious damage here. Like any. Yeah, yeah.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (08:29)
think they're doing major damage. I think they're doing really

quite scary damage to their dogs at this point because not to mention the fact that male is only a year old. He's in an attentional window, second fear phase, adolescence, all of that kind of thing where he's got a very, very sensitive brain and will be learning from every situation. If he's constantly being told off, not even just in the context of if a male is told off too many times at the beginning of his stud career.

that could literally impede him from being able to complete natural matings in the future. Take that aside, this owner could be building a future of very reactive dogs.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (09:07)
Yeah. And it doesn't take much to wind a collie up. Does it? You know.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (09:12)
No, so realistically

if we were, no it doesn't, so realistically to unpick the situation a little bit, what should they have done? So they should have kept the dog separate at the beginning of the season or as separate as possible or monitored playtime in the garden to ensure that the female wasn't getting nasty and frustrated at the male, especially with him being so young, the likelihood of him being able to read the pheromones correctly and identify when she is actually in the correct window to mate

is ambiguous. So you could have a very over enthusiastic male trying to mate her from the beginning of the season, which isn't going to go down well. Hence the fact you'd want to keep them separate in my opinion. Ovulation test. Sara I'll pass that over to you. In my opinion, they should be doing that. I appreciate the benefit of having two dogs in house can be really great. A lot of people won't ovulation test in that situation. But I would imagine that's an experienced breeder.

that can understand the signs, know how to handle a natural mating and when, and potentially already have an experience stud in their house, which is why they're saying they don't need an ovulation test. So in this situation, I would happily say ovulation test. So what would you recommend?

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (10:22)
Yeah, ovulation testing for me, the only one that's worth it sought is progesterone ovulation testing, because it's based on the progesterone that's in the female's body and how that increases once ovulation has occurred to maintain a pregnancy. So ovulation testing will be the most accurate way of knowing that she's ovulated. So then the dogs could then be put together in a safe.

and controlled environment to encourage a breeding that's safe for everybody involved. And to me, they've got at least have collars on. So if you need to grab the dog, you can grab them. Like in some instances, I'd rather just have the dogs on leads with like a long line or whatever. So you can actually have some control over them, but it needs to be, the bitch needs to be supported.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (10:58)
Yep, definitely.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (11:11)
the stud dog needs to be gently introduced. Yeah, they can have a bit of flirting and say it's going to be hard because they know each other and it's not the usual situation. they're in a difficult position anyway. Like you said, if they had an experienced stud dog slightly different, if they were experienced breeders, they're slightly different, but they really are jumping in at the deep end of just assuming.

the dogs suddenly know, today, today is the day that we're allowed to breed, but they were probably allowed to not do it ever again. And I've been told off a...

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (11:40)
he's already been and he's been

told off 10 million times before by the bitch already

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (11:43)
Yeah,

exactly. and even it says, how do I calm him down? Because he stopped eating and drinking. So he's getting frustrated with the situation. She's getting frustrated with the situation. in my opinion, they they're kept apart until ovulation has been confirmed through preferred method of blood testing. And then it's a controlled mating.

And then even then, if he doesn't perform, you're going to need a backup if you want this to happen. I mean, to me, this classically says, this is why you go and find an experienced stud owner with experienced stud dogs, because it saves all of...

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (12:24)
pay a small

stud fee, realistically the stud fee you're going to spend is negligible compared to the amount of stress, detriment and potentially trauma that you're putting your dogs through in this situation. instead her male dog's been beside himself, been fighting with his female for however long and is now not eating and in quite a significant state of stress.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (12:27)
Yeah.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (12:47)
So I couldn't agree with you more. So we would have said, keep them separate, progesterone tests from day nine, wait until ovulation, put them together with an experienced handler on-site, have a backup plan in place. what sort of backup methods would you be suggesting that they had lined up?

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (13:05)
it's always good to have a fertility clinic on hand if they're worth their salt that could potentially ovulation test for them. But you have got Vets as an alternative to that also, a reproduction specialist. really, your backup is doing artificial insemination depending on

where you live in the world and whether that's accepted or not. And then, yeah, but then that opens a whole other can of worms of is the male used to be handling that way? Is he going to let you handle that way? How experienced is the person that's going to be doing the artificial insemination? You might have to mimic as if he's going to mount the bitch, but not. it's a lot of pressure to be putting on everybody.

the backup plan is you have someone be able to do an artificial insemination and transvaginal. So I wouldn't necessarily be going down TCI route, which is trans cervical. There's no reason for that. I feel at this point, unless that's all your local vet practice could offer, but then that's just going to cost you more money and seems highly unnecessary at this point.

then you're involved in another person. They've got to get to know the dogs and say there's many dogs that aren't used to being touched in those ways, which an experienced stud owner would be handling their dogs. So they are comfortable to be handled that way should they need to be supported, need to intervene with something or rather, or you need to do an AI. there are options, but it feels like they're finding these options out at a very late stage.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (14:34)
Yeah, they are. Yeah, it's all a little bit too little too late. So I fear for them realistically that unfortunately I think they've missed this season, especially bearing in mind the post-states that she came into season over three weeks ago.

they'll be better off now doing a little bit more research, being prepared for next time around, separating the dogs now and just waiting to go again on the next season realistically by putting a few different methods into action prior including health testing and probably semen testing their male prior as well.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (15:08)
Yeah, that's a good thing if you were to do AI that you could semen and check him at that same point, but then it might be too late. no, we need another plan. Do you want to know some of the comments?

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (15:15)
Yeah, exactly.

Yep, go for it.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (15:23)
Someone said, I have toy poodles, so I don't know if it's just the breed, but my female hated the male. I hadn't planned on breeding them and really didn't bother about her getting pregnant. Then one day I couldn't find them and they didn't come back when called and they were tied in the backyard. We now have five week old puppies. She's one and a half years old. someone, the dogs worked out eventually.

Some people are asking about how else the female should be at least two years old. Hips and elbows readings are only acknowledged by, once they're two years old. yeah, someone's just asking about health testing. Blood testing, you don't want to mate two dogs, and they both have a carrier gene for something, so health testing again. this is the classic. Someone said,

straw-coloured discharge after bloody one is gone.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (16:12)
wives tale.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (16:14)
This is all I just love the straw colored discharge.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (16:16)
I've seen it through and through. It

blows my mind the number of people that we'll have enquire to use our gorgeous boy at stud. And they'll say to me, I'll just give you a call when the blood changes colour. And I spend so long educating any potential bitch owners into exactly how to progesterone test because there genuinely is.

100 % no correlation between blood colour and ovulation pattern. We've had bitches come to us that are no longer even bleeding to the eye and in comparison we've had bitches still dripping red blood so apologies for the graphic explanation but obviously as dog breeders it's not all glamorous so it really yeah that's really should never be relied on.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (17:01)
I've had females bleed significantly after being covered and in my head thinking how on earth is that going to work? And then you scan them in pups, you know, okay, no, it's going to show. they never, yeah, there was no straw or anything. It was full on blood, like at least for a week. Yeah. Yeah.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (17:10)
Yeah.

Yeah, all good.

Imagine if you'd waited for the straw in that situation.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (17:24)
Yeah, for a week after covering, it was still full on drips of blood and then yeah, she was still in pup. Just trying to look at some of these. A lot of people just questioning, has she had three cycles? Is she over two years old? Some people just saying she'll stand when she's ready. If she's not ready, she won't stand. Someone's counted that not always true.

From my experience with an alpha female, she wouldn't allow the male to mount her. I had extremely well-seasoned stud, standard poodle, and I owned one that wouldn't let any male get near her. Eventually we had to muzzle her for fear of ripping him apart. She was an amazing mum and super smart and sweet dog outside of the mating.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (18:03)
Crikey.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (18:09)
so they've said about muzzling. Obviously, wow, how did we not talk about this? She's talking about muzzling. mating cradles.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (18:16)
Yes, I was quite horrified when I learned about this shocking piece of equipment.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (18:17)
Ahem.

Yeah, this is a contraption that basically houses the female so you can strap her to it so she can't move for a mating. And funny enough, one popped up really recently on my Instagram feed about someone and that was for Cane Corso. mean, mate, how big is this mating contraption? So that's horrendous.

They are banned by the Kennel Club I don't know what the situation is in other parts of the world, but it is not an acceptable piece of equipment to be using for any dog during a breeding, because obviously any dog that can't move and escape a situation that they're not comfortable in is probably not appropriate. So.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (19:03)
It's animal abuse

frankly. If you're not allowing your dog to make the decisions for themselves and keep themselves safe, in my opinion, I think that is animal abuse. I'm sorry, I know some people won't agree with me, but I'm putting it out there and I feel quite strongly about it.

Mating should be as low stress as possible. Make sure you've got experts on hand to support you to do that. If you're ovulation testing, very often that will take 97 % of the stress out of the mating. If you've ovulation tested and you're actually taking her in the receptive window, using experience studs will reduce it by another couple of percent, if not more. And go to secondary methods if you need to. There is absolutely no excuse in this day and age to be using a mating cradle.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (19:46)
much banned for. Yeah, definitely. If you turn up and you go, what's that? And they go, we're going to strap her into that. You turn around and go straight back out again. And here's an update. So she did respond. They said, I just want to clarify some stuff. I do not wish to become a breeder, although I understand if I breed my female, I am labeled as one.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (19:46)
red cross.

I'd be running. Yeah.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (20:10)
If she gets pregnant, this will be her one and only litter. She will be two in March and he will be two in July. So now I remember two years old. Okay. I did some research and want wanted to become a breeder, but decided against it. But I'm still going to do it anyway. think she's having some mental fight with herself. Okay. She is registered at AKC. He is not. We are in a different country.

flew her back home when we relocated back from the states. We have a repro vet on standby in case anything happens. We'll maybe use them a bit sooner then. I also understand that she might not have a big litter. this drives me crazy. She might not have a big litter her first time round.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (20:55)
that's another great old wives turn, isn't it?

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (20:55)
That myth drives

me crazy. But we won't go on that yet because let's finish this text. We have a farm. All pups except one will be kept by us as working dogs. And we know the people who will be adopting one.

if she does have a litter if nothing happens both dogs will be sterilised thank you everyone for your opinions

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (21:17)
don't think she necessarily got the answers she wanted and I think they've been quite brutal, some of them, hence her reaction there. The challenge that she's being faced with is she's asking for help at the most crucial time in the whole journey other than the whelp and there are basic requirements and levels of understanding that you would expect someone to have before this time. Actually, Sara, you've got a fantastic resource that this is a great opportunity to point people towards.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (21:24)
Yeah.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (21:45)
that if you aren't sure of your level of breeding ability and you aren't sure of your knowledge gaps, there are things you can do to check your level of understanding, such as the Canine Family Planner's Knowledge Checker.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (21:49)
yes.

Yes, yes, it's a fairly short quiz that will take you through a series of questions that covers all the whole entire spectrum of dog breeding from deciding if you want to breed your dog to the point of the puppies going to the new home. It's broken down into three categories that basically fall into my three pillars of responsible dog breeding, which is a safe and simple structure to dog breeding.

if you go on my website, caninefamilyplaner.com/knowledgecheck or just go to Canine Family Planner and click knowledge checker in the menu. Take the quiz, you'll get emailed your results. you'll get results for each section, each pillar. So you could be amazing at the pre-breeding, know, the pre-puppy stuff or the health testing or the rest of it, but maybe you're not so good.

at the whelping bit or wherever, it will define that for you. It will show you the areas that you could up skill on. And yeah, I'm sure if she took this test, she would probably come out quite low across all of the sectors because it seems to me that she's lacking some essential knowledge.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (23:04)
Yeah, and it

might get, might may well have given her the heads up to realise, oh crikey, I've got a bit more learning to do first. Let's wait this season and try go again next season when I'm a bit more prepared.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (23:16)
Let's join a group of proactive people where I can learn how to do things properly. Exactly. She did have a lot of pushback still about, you aware of litter mate syndrome? And collies do have big litters, so keeping a lot of puppy sounds a bit crazy.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (23:22)
If only we could invite her to the Breeders Brew community, Can only lead a horse to water.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (23:41)
Yeah, I think someone said basically, well, if you've got a repro vet, use them properly, get some advice from them.

I don't even know how this is going to finish, but I like how it started, so I'm going to read it out. You're going to get your a** handed to you by all the judgmental folks in here who think they're the only ones wise enough to breed and have forgotten that we all started with the same amount of knowledge. but that's not true. That's not true. We didn't all start with the same amount of knowledge. That's not true.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (24:06)
That's not true.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (24:11)
We all started, yeah, we've all had our first litter, a thousand percent, but not with the same knowledge. And then the basic said, I would do some genetic testing, see if it was all good. let them have at it, they figure it out. I will tell you though, the market for puppies is not great right now. Most people can't afford groceries, much less pure bred dogs.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (24:13)
Yeah. Yeah.

Night.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (24:38)
Okay, well...

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (24:39)
Well, they're also not AKC registered, so we're assuming that they're purebred though, and that comment, which maybe isn't the case.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (24:44)
I quite like the, I like

the directness of this person. feel like we should get them on I don't necessarily agree with what they said, but I like, wow, you're, but you're, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And like, fair point, like people struggling with cost of living.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (24:50)
I don't agree with what they're saying at all, but they're happy to hand it crikey.

They make me sound

like a shrinking wallflower, crikey.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (25:03)
They make me sound like one, which is amazing. Yeah, that really is saying something. they're calling everyone judgmental. Well, if you post in a group, obviously they're going to post their comments. That's what they're there for. And yeah, some value points and some less value points, but I liked how that started because it was a full confidence.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (25:06)
That's saying something.

Yeah, you're going to get opinion. Yeah.

There was so much

to unpack there, it's actually unbelievable.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (25:28)
Yeah, there's a lot. But most of them still saying that I'll just leave them to get on with it and they'll work it out, which is a little bit scary.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (25:36)
I don't

really don't agree with that.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (25:40)
Yeah, no, do I. let's see whether miracles ever happen. If there ever be an update, I doubt it.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (25:48)
I doubt it.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (25:49)
That was their first and only post.

If they're the novice dogs, someone needs to be experienced. Someone needs to be experienced in that triangle to make sure... So if it's not the dogs, it needs to be you. If it's not the bitch, it needs to be the dog. If it's not you, like vice versa, someone has to have a rough idea of what should happen.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (25:55)
Yeah.

Yes, 100 %

I completely agree.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (26:10)
you're not starting over there

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (26:10)
that's one of the first things

that I always say to people when they ask for advice on finding the right stud dog. The best thing to consider is if you're a novice dog owner, having a litter from your girl for the first time, it is so important to find an experienced, knowledgeable, passionate stud owner because they will guide you through things like this situation professionally, carefully and with your bitch's best interest at heart.

If you are a novice bitch owner and you go and use a novice stud dog or someone that's just got a stud that's never bred a litter themselves and realistically not going to help you with the intricacies of breeding, you might want to reconsider your stud choices. So as you were saying, you always need to make sure that the whole party is compatible. If you're novice, pick an experienced. first timer as well,

at least make sure the stud handler is experienced if not the stud dog. So yeah, same goes if you've got a stud boy and it's gonna be his first mating, make sure that there is an experienced handler there, whether that be you or the bitch owner as well with that round the other way. So it's so important to have some experience in the room.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (27:19)
I agree

you got a question Isobel?

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (27:21)
Oh yes, of course I have. So let's go to the other end of the breeding journey. So we've got a successful mating, we've had a wonderful pregnancy, pups have been born. Somebody has asked, hi, what's the opinion on family and friends visiting the puppies? When can others touch them? I've only

seen online that you should refrain from showing them off for a little while at the beginning and you should limit visitors and ensure that they're only looking, not touching. But as they're not vaccinated yet, I have been turning everyone away just to keep them safe. Thank you.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (28:00)
How old are they now? Did they say how old they were? just turning everyone away.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (28:02)
We don't know. No, no context of

age on here. We don't know the breed, we don't know the country. So we can only give a little bit of a biased British view here.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (28:15)
Yeah, it's one of those balancing without knowing the age. they need to interact as part of their socialisation. Having controlled interactions with a variation of people, types of people is good, but that needs to be balanced with the risk of, who you're letting into your house and under what conditions. I mean, I've been in all the situations where people have said, can you take your shoes off?

Can you spray your shoes? Can you anti-bac your I'm always quite conscious being a dog person anyway. Even when people go to me, do you want to hold them? I'm like, no, it's okay, because I know I'm a high traffic dog person. I wouldn't ever want to pass anything on to anyone. But I guess when you've got, I know, get it, when kids, you've got kids and they want to bring all their mates around.

How do you know what if they've got dogs of theirs and where they've been and what they've been up to? So it is quite a difficult line to manage because development-wise you don't want to hinder that either.

I'm all for it unless you paid a deposit. You ain't looking at these dogs. I'm just thinking because then if you...

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (29:22)
Well that's a safe way to ensure

that only sensible and invested parties take the viewing very seriously.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (29:27)
Because

then I'd be like if you break this puppy you've got to buy it now it's a bit like that if you test drive a car you break it you buy it yeah you make this one ill you buy it but people start shoving their fingers in their mouth obviously puppies get a bit bitey bitey and licky licky and some people really encourage that why why you

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (29:47)
do.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (29:48)
Yeah, no, that's not that's not part of this and and equally I'm not I'm not a petting zoo You're not coming up here. I know I'm savage. I know I am savage but It's served me well so far. I don't need to spread the love honestly once I was walking the dogs and These two young girls said to me Can I stroke your dogs and I went no she went you selfish bitch and I was like, yes I am

I said, yes, I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she did. And I was so chuffed about it. I was like, yeah, you ain't touching my dogs. And I just carried on walking home. But obviously nowadays, that's part of, I mean, it is good that they asked, but equally that's part of, this is an ongoing battle that dog trainers have, isn't it? With people wanting to interact with dogs and this is how dogs are becoming reactive or over enamored or, and so.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (30:18)
Really!

That's so funny.

Yes, very good.

Yes.

100%.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (30:45)
people should be ignoring dogs unless they've had a conversation with the owner or the carer that says, can I interact with your dog? And they say, yes. But it is kind of a given and it is from when I was young. You asked if you could touch the dog and then you touched, you pretty much touched the dog, didn't you? And so it did. It did make me laugh because I thought, yes, you ain't touching my dog. You ain't good enough for it. But so.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (31:07)
That tickles me that tickles me my fellow

Dax and owners here will be literally feeling my pain right now and your pain There is nothing worse than being a dachshund and owner you'll be walking down the road mind your own business on a dog walk and something here Sausage shouted down the road behind you you say oh here we go

it's just unbearable. i'm sure it's lovely when you've got your first dachshund and you bask in the glory of being a local celebrity but the novelty wears off after 10 or so years i have to say. nowadays i'm the same as you Sara every time we meet. can i say hello? can i say hello? can i say hello? so i've actually done an awful lot of work with my dachshunds since moving to somewhere not quite so rural

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (31:30)
Yeah.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (31:51)
actually we just practice neutrality. I don't want you to talk to everyone. I don't want you to look at other people. I don't want you to look at other dogs. I don't want you get overexcited because I want to be able to ultimately sit down in the pub on a Friday night with my dogs there and not have to worry about my dogs wanting to say hello to absolutely everyone and everything that comes in the door or walks past. So yeah we went down another little rabbit hole there but I'm all for neutrality. I'm happy to have

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (32:10)
Mm.

Yeah, well that's... Yeah, that's...

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (32:18)
unsociable dogs in as much as they don't care. If you're here and you're in our house, be prepared to be bundled under a dachshund smothering pile. Enjoy! But yeah, no, on walks and out and about, I don't leave anyone touching my dogs.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (32:29)
do know what?

So when it comes to, puppy views, I think puppies should be handled by...

you know, a range of people of different ages and different, abilities and all the rest of it. So I think that is good for the dogs. But yeah, that has to be managed. So there has to be some basic protocol that's taken into account. Personally, me, I wouldn't want anyone touching them until they're at least five weeks old. But I know for a fact that people do three week viewings and have people round and then they do another at six and then they go at eight and

They can't seemingly have any problems because they wouldn't be doing that. am kind of, less is more in that instance. So I'm all for it, but I'm probably quite controlling in who that is and how that happens. Yeah, what's your thoughts? it?

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (33:17)
I know I bang on about it, do follow puppy culture when and as I have the very rare litter. So a major part of puppy culture is about moulding the dog to be tolerant of experiences that they will face in adult life to ensure that they fit into the real world. And that is obviously meeting

everyone of every type, every human wearing every type of clothing and everything in between. So puppy culture does actually encourage something called puppy parties, which is exactly that where you have, albeit trusted individuals, come round and essentially have a party with your puppies in a very controlled way

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (33:56)
instead of pass the parcel, it's pass the puppy.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (33:59)
Well,

that's essentially what happens, isn't it, when you have people coming around, but yeah.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (34:02)
Yeah, but

they're not wedged in between layers of paper are they? hope not. Wedged in between layers of puppy pads and you peel them and move on. yeah, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah, anyway, continue, sorry.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (34:08)
No, no, no, no, don't put me in that box.

No, my dogs don't come into contact with such synthetic materials. Behave.

Yeah, so a major part of that teaching is about human interaction and learning that humans are great and to be listened to and to be enjoyed. So yes, I think letting people come and see the puppies is really important, but there's a way to do it. And I would imagine, I obviously don't have children. I imagine if you have

children and children's friends wanting to come around, that must be really tricky to handle because I understand you then got politics coming into it and oh mum's just being mean and and that sort of backlash. So I do understand I've got it really easy saying oh I don't have kids and I just have my trusted friends and family in that situation as do you Sara, you're an adult and you you don't have children so you're in that beneficial situation for yourself.

I think it's easier for us to say that it's simple. If you do have a larger family and visiting children and things like that, it can still be highly beneficial for the puppies. I would be letting visitors and children's friends in, but with a strict set of rules. So I do expect shoes off. I do expect clothes to be changed if you've been out and about with other dogs.

So obviously most people wouldn't fall into that category. So essentially just clean clothing. I would expect everybody to wash their hands thoroughly before touching the puppies. Regardless of what age, I don't care if you're coming for a puppy viewing at seven weeks old. I'm still politely asking you to wash your hands when you arrive. Until the puppies leave my front doorstep, they are my babies to keep safe and ensure that no harm comes to them.

The good thing is, mean Sara, I'm the same as you, we vet to the highest of standards, borderline detective level. So there is already a great level of trust with puppy buyers when they're coming into your house. So with that level of reciprocated respect, they are going to have absolutely no issues washing their hands when you ask them to wash their hands when they come in the front door. So I don't think that's anything to feel awkward about.

Other than that, I don't go too much further with my crazy stipulations. I don't expect people to just sweep in, pick them up, get in for a cuddle. say to people, you want to go and interrupt them, please go and set them the floor. Yeah, that's sort of the basic rules and stipulations.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (36:37)
What

age is this from?

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (36:42)
yeah, I didn't answer the main question though, did I? Flexible. Depends on the reason. If it's close family, as you can tell, we're all dog mad, dachshund are mad in particular, I would trust them visiting genuinely from four weeks of age, three weeks of age. Whether or not they'll be touching them at that point, I don't know. Depends on the level of the litter, but...

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (36:44)
Bye, everyone.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (37:03)
I trust my family inherently and have a very strong relationship with them so that wouldn't bother me at all. And they would totally respect me in terms of no shoes, washing hands, things like that. Would I let a stranger or an acquaintance or a loose kind of friend come in my house at that point? No, I wouldn't. So I'd say realistically five weeks at the youngest, six ideally for someone like that if you're having friends' children come around or cousins or people that aren't quite as...

switched on.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (37:31)
That's fair enough. Anyone that have you watched Missing You? I just had to look up Missing You on Netflix. So there's a whole scene in there about a dog breeder who's basically, it's his cover. Honestly, it's brilliant. He's a show dog breeder and he has this couple turn up to buy a puppy. first of all, doesn't like the name that they're gonna give the puppy.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (37:36)
No.

you

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (37:53)
And then he's vetting that strict that he actually, he has all these undercover pictures of the wife kissing the next door neighbor. he's so funny. It's worth watching. So he's like, and the name, the name of the puppy, he was like, so you don't want to call puppy. I can't remember what it was like Scott. And the husband's like, well, why would I, that's our next neighbor's called Scott. And he's like, yes. And he puts the pictures in front of him.

and basically ruins their marriage and says, you're not reliable enough to have a puppy. And scoops the puppy up and like, shoos him out. Honestly, it's so funny. You got to watch it. And then that's the level of her vetting. We've got to covert people out. So if you're up to no good, you're not getting a dog. But it's worth, it's worth watching. I think it's in the first episode. So it comes in quite quickly. But yeah, this whole setting of a dog breeder.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (38:31)
dear.

wow, that's amazing.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (38:48)
And that's that's a front for the naughty stuff that he's also doing, which we don't do. So that's fine. But yeah, heavy vetting it is. What else was the what else was in the question? I can't remember. Did we cover it all? I can't even remember now. Is about we've gone on so many tangents.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (39:02)
it was even my question i thought it yours let me have a look

Hi, what's the opinion on family and friends visiting? When can others touch them? I've seen you should refrain from showing them off for a little while and then limit visitors to only looking. But because they're not vaccinated yet, I've been turning everyone away just to keep them safe. So the other thing I'd add there is obviously mother's immunity plays a massive role in this. Just because your puppy isn't vaccinated, it doesn't mean they don't have a level of protection.

That is why the World Small Animal Veterinary association actually recommend that you don't vaccinate your puppies as young as what a lot of people do in the UK. So I know it's a similar protocol to what you follow Sara, isn't it?

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (39:47)
yeah a thousand percent yeah none of my pups leave vaccinated full stop yeah

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (39:50)
for this exact reason, because they still

have immunity from their mum in their bloodstream, which means that if they were to come in contact with something that their mother has already built immunity against, those puppies will have a certain level of protection. Now, if you vaccinate too young, whilst that immunity is all there, it basically just cancels out the vaccine and means the vaccine is inefficient and ineffective. So vaccines provide, it seems, quite a full sense of security to some people.

I have seen and heard of litters being vaccinated now as young as six weeks in the UK, which genuinely shocks me because the level of mother immunity still at six weeks is incredibly high because I believe it's actually up to 13 and a half weeks, mother's immunity can still be found in the system. So vaccinating halfway through that period of time is completely and utterly useless.

So even if your puppies are vaccinated at six weeks, it does not mean they have any level of immunity, any more so than if they hadn't been vaccinated. So that's just another tangent I've gone down there. So vaccination stages doesn't come into this conversation for me. It's the trustworthiness of the parties coming to visit. Obviously, the other thing to bear in mind is we are in the UK and we're really lucky that our parvo levels are really low. Nowhere near to the scale.

of issues that unfortunately are seen in the US. So we can be a little bit more lax, I think, with puppy viewings because we're in quite a fortunate situation here.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (41:22)
Yep, I agree with everything you said.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (41:24)
I concur.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (41:25)
Yeah, I concur. with all of it. Vaccinations into it with me. I actually spend quite a lot of time educating new puppy owners about immunity levels, yeah, immunity, Passover and that kind of thing. I feel that the vaccinations, previously that's always been what responsible breeders should do.

So that's what's continued to happen, but times have changed, new information has been learnt and now that's not necessarily the case. So you're not irresponsible if you don't vaccinate, but it has to be risk dependent on where you live, what your situation is. I'm all for, think breeders definitely need to take more of an educational role.

with their puppy owners and actually take time to explain why they do the things they do. I explain why I wean onto raw, I explain why I worm count rather than just worming for the sake of worming. And I feel if breeders do that, then actually that improves your credibility and it builds better trust about the relationship you'll have with your puppy owner and the expertise that you have.

So I think a lot of people are doing this, but they don't actually tell people why they're doing it. And actually communicating that better with your people will mean you'll get less questions and you'll find better caliber and quality of people because you're demonstrating that you're probably running at a more complex or a more knowledgeable level than, you know.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (42:37)
Yeah.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (42:55)
lot of the breeders that are out there. yeah, I'm all for I agree with what you said and yeah, do what she did.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (43:02)
Perfect, well that rounds off quite nicely.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (43:05)
Yeah, so I was like, oh, do we need to do another question? But I don't think we do. think that's we're at our limit. Yeah.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (43:09)
I we've got time. They're both very juicy

questions we've gone through actually, this episode. I know normally we do a bit more quickfire questions, but there was quite a lot of depth to go into both of those. So hopefully everyone's found that very beneficial, that little whistle stop tour on some of pretty common questions actually. I feel like they're things that we see thrown around quite often.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (43:13)
Yeah.

Isobel you're so professional. It's because we took it on about 40,000 different tangents. So we did cover other stuff. We did cover other stuff that wasn't in the question. So they still learnt tons of stuff. It's fine. It's as usual, if you want to have more of us, then you need to join the Facebook group, which is the Breeders Brew. If you have a question for a future episode, you need to email us at podcast@breedersbrew.com.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (43:35)
Ha ha ha ha.

Yes.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (43:57)
Otherwise, you need to make sure you subscribe on whatever platform you listen to because we have many more series coming. And if you want to be the first to hear about it and the first to download and listen, then you need to be subscribed. You need to turn on your bell notifications and you'll be one happy bunny in the breeding nest. Yeah, support us and we'll support you.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (44:15)
Support us.

Exactly that help us help you and and obviously we're doing this out of the goodness of our hearts so anything you can do to just say a little thanks is always hugely appreciated whether that's a like on Facebook, a share, a comment, a recommendation to another breeding friend it goes a really long way just helps us spread the message that we can all raise the bar of ethical breeding standards together and it's something that we should be doing as a movement, as a team, there's no

competition here. It's just open honest chat from one breeding, one knowledgeable dog owner to another and hopefully many, more.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (44:56)
That's it, we're signing off. Thank you ever so much for listening. See you soon.

Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach (45:00)
See you soon.

Sara Lamont (45:02)
We hope you enjoyed this episode as much as we did recording it. I'm sure you've probably worked out by now that not all Facebook whelping groups are made equal. We strongly recommend you come and join us by simply searching Breeders Brew Community on Facebook and requesting to join the group filled with proactive and passionate puppy practitioners.