22┃ ABA 2024: Holistic Breeder Winner - Jacquie Mullin

What happens when instinct, science and perseverance finally come together?

In this episode, Sara sits down with Jacquie Mullin, winner of the Holistic Breeder Award and finalist for Rising Star, to discuss how she overcame multiple missed matings and adopted a more open and intentional approach to breeding her beloved Whippets.

From discovering her bitch ovulated late to balancing advice from both racing and show circles, Jacquie's story is packed with practical insight and quiet determination. If you're facing roadblocks or want to make more thoughtful, informed breeding decisions, this episode is for you.

For support shaped around your breed, background and breeding mindset, join the Brew Crew and find the encouragement every breeder deserves.

📌 Show Notes: breedersbrew.com/notes/s3e22

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Transcript

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Sara Lamont (00:25)
This episode delves into holistic breeding practices, exploring key topics such as the role of exercise during pregnancy, the importance of an open mindset in breeding, how supplements can support canine health and fertility, and the need for quality veterinary care and informed decision making. With valuable insights of real life experiences, this conversation highlights the holistic approach to breeding.

and the lessons that shape responsible and ethical dog breeding.

Just to give you heads up, Isobel the Canine Nutrition Coach and the sponsor of this award joined us for this informal chat. However, you'll see that she had some serious gremlins in her system, which meant that not only did we lose her during the interview, but it actually impacted some of the ongoing conversation that I was having with Jacquie. this is a slightly shorter than typical episode, just because unfortunately we lost a lot of the content. However,

There's still tons to learn from Jacquie, so I shall hit play now.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (01:28)
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Breeders Brew. I have two special guests with me today because Isobel normally my co-host, is attending more in a special guest capacity along with the main feature and guest of today who is Jacquie Mullin, who was the winner of the most recent Annual Breeder Awards. She won the

holistic breeder category, and she was also a finalist for the Rising Star Award. So she's like a, almost like a triple threat. So thank you both for coming to the podcast. Isobel gets to kick back and relax a little bit on this Right, so before we start, I think by now we all know a little bit about Isobel So Jacquie, it would be great for you just to introduce yourself.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (02:05)
indeed, I'm looking forward to picking my feet up.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (02:13)
a little bit of a backstory, whether you've owned dogs all your life or not, and how you stumbled into the world of breeding.

Jacquie Mullin (02:20)
Thanks, Sara and Isobel. So I'm Jacquie Mullin. I have two Whippets called Daisy and Elsy I've owned Whippets since I was about eight years old. We started off with some show Whippets, and it was my dad that loved the Whippets. And we got into Whippet racing, I just absolutely loved it, really enjoyed the sport. As I grew older, sort of

you know, holidays and just general life, things happening with life. I didn't have any Whippets for a few years. And then when I got into my 30s, I said, There two things I want when I'm 30. I want a Whippet and I want a Rolex by my 30th. And I achieved both. So I was very, very proud of that achievement. And I decided to race...

Lily, my whippet. And I always go with songs as racing names. So she was Dancing Queen and decided to race her, bring her up. so I bought her from a breeder who had been breeding for quite a few years. And fortunately, Lily went on to become a champion and she was very, very fast. I decided to breed her. thought, I want to breed her. I want to sort of carry that line on.

And Lily was, she was five at the time, decided yeah, we did the mating, whatever, natural mating. She had four puppies. They were born by Caesarean, which was a little bit scary because one of the puppies was born naturally, but she was quite, usually Whippet puppies range from sort of five to nine ounces.

Well, her puppy was 14 ounces. And so she gave birth to the first one naturally. And then after that, the boys had to be born by a caesarean section the following day. But fortunately they were all okay and she was okay. But it did kind of put me off the whole experience because I had somebody with me helping me out who bred Lily. So I thought, great, know, she'll be a great help, etc But she was basically putting me off by saying, no, don't go to the vet's, don't go to the vet's because she's not, you know, she's

she's fine, she's fine, but she wasn't going to the next stages of labour. So in the end, like I said, she had the girl naturally on the 20th of February and then all the boys were born the next day on the 21st. But it was quite interesting because obviously I was listening to this woman who's many, many litters over the years and my gut was saying, her to the vets, get her to the vets. Well, I'm glad I listened to my gut and not the...

person that had bred my bitch because it turns out she would not have been able to give birth to the boys naturally. So I did the right thing going to the vets, having

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (04:51)
you

Jacquie Mullin (04:53)
a C-section, but it kind of put me off because she had the C-section and the whole experience of it. As lovely as it was, I thought, I just don't think I can do this again because it felt so stressful, etc But over the years, thought actually after sort of buying in Whippets, well, actually because it was still my line was still going.

because those puppies then went on to be bred on from. I thought, well, I feel like I need to bring that line back again. tried to breed Elsy a couple of times and each time I didn't realise at the time, but I was getting her dates wrong. So Sara was obviously giving me all the right information and all the right advice to say, no, she's not ready, she's not ready. But you know,

Obviously, sometimes we get a little bit impatient and we think, oh, you know, I don't really want to be paying out for another blood test. Let's just try it. I'm sure it'd be fine. Well, lo and behold, it wasn't fine because Elsy wasn't ready. And so this time we decided to blood test Elsy from day nine and

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (05:41)
.

Jacquie Mullin (06:00)
make sure we get her bloods absolutely accurate. It did take seven attempts. So she had seven blood tests, but it proved that

Elsy was in fact what they call a late acceptor after doing a bit of research and she was mated on day 23. That was the day that Sara advised that Elsy was ovulating, day 23, 24. So we went for the mating and fortunately we had five lovely, healthy puppies. Again, she did have to have a caesarean, but the vet did say that she

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (06:18)
Mm-hmm.

Jacquie Mullin (06:38)
probably wouldn't have been able to give birth to the puppies naturally because of the way they were positioned. But they were all very healthy, like I said, ranging from nine to 10 ounces. And they're all absolutely thriving. So I'm very, very grateful for Sara for her help and guidance throughout the whole process. Because this was in fact, Elsy's third attempt and it was her last attempt because she is actually seven years old.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (06:48)
This school just guessed that you need someone to take you out of rather than just to go out with a student.

Jacquie Mullin (07:03)
And I'm very grateful for Isobel because Elsy's been on lots of different vitamins and selenium, folic acid, raspberry leaf. And I think that this is why I have a perfect litter, very healthy, very strong.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (07:19)
That's amazing story. I'm going to roll it back and unpick it a little bit if I can. Just out of interest, is there a big difference between show and racing type whippets or not?

Jacquie Mullin (07:31)
Yes, there is. it would almost be like having me racing with Usain Bolt. I'm the show bread the race bread. That's the difference.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (07:39)
okay. Okay.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (07:39)
Wow.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (07:42)
And so what are the the racing bred? Are they fine? Obviously, they're leaner. But in regards to the confirmation and type, do they tend to be finer or? Yeah.

Jacquie Mullin (07:52)
Yes, they are. So when

I look at a showbread whippet, I look and I think, that whippet's fat. Because I have got a friend who I have to cut her dog's nails because she can't do them herself. So she brings her whippets around and every time I'm like, your whippets are a little bit overweight. They're bit, but they're bred differently. The racing ones are leaner and more muscular and

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (07:59)
Right.

Jacquie Mullin (08:18)
So they say looking at them, there is quite a lot of difference and definitely in speed.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (08:22)
Yeah, without a doubt. And I'm interested in regards to Elsy's exercise while she was pregnant. This is just only because this has been a theme through all of this series that I've been doing that the annual Breeder Awards. What did you do in regards to her exercise? How did you alter it knowing that she was then in pup?

Jacquie Mullin (08:39)
up until she was mated, she had regular exercise every single day. As soon as she was mated, I never took her out for a couple of weeks. I think I just walked her around my estate so there wasn't too much grass that she was sniffing. Before I did sort of let her off and free run her, but I thought, no, she's staying on the lead.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (08:46)
I like it.

Jacquie Mullin (08:57)
practically wrapped her up in cotton wool. thought, I'm not doing it this time. This is literally, as you said, Sara last chance lottery for Elsy because of her age and I had to get it right. So she didn't have exercise until she was confirmed pregnant. So once she was confirmed pregnant with her scan at 21 days by yourself, Sara, she then had exercise. But there was a period, I think there was like a two week or a 10 day period where

She just walked around the estate and I was very, very careful, but I did not let her off the lead. I thought, no, I'm not chance in this.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (09:29)
No, fair enough. then so once she was confirmed in pup how did you change her exercise up until she delivered?

Jacquie Mullin (09:37)
Her exercise was absolutely the same. So she still had a mile to a mile and a half walking every day. She wanted to go out. I got the lead and she would excitedly come up to me wagging her tail which obviously, you you listen to your dogs, don't you? They tell you if they want to go out or not. Then three days before she had the puppies, she didn't want to go out. And that's when it stopped. I just didn't take her.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (10:01)
Okay, yeah.

That's interesting. think that's a new, and Isobel I don't know if you would agree or not, before it's kind of been, once they've been scanned, stop exercise and don't let them do too much. But there seems to be a change of attitude in regards to do what the bitch is usually used to doing. So she's used to exercising X amount of miles or minutes or hours or whatever. She will tell you when to stop it. And I'm seeing a pattern of people

keeping their dogs more active for longer during pregnancy.

Jacquie Mullin (10:36)
Definitely,

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (10:37)
really pleased to hear that you're seeing that shift, Sara, because I think that there has been a trend in the last 20 or so years of people, like said, wanting a scanned in pup, or let's not do exercise, but in the grand scheme of dog ownership, that windows only a very small proportion of what dogs have been man's best friend and been breeding.

been pregnant and you strip it right back to the mammal that is sat in front of us and they need exercise, they need to keep up their stamina and their fitness because whelping is a marathon for a lot of girls that go you know that go naturally. First stage of labour can last well over 24 hours in some cases which is strenuous for them not to mention the actual active stages of labour and then lactating and rearing the litter it's a lot for their bodies so I am in the camp of

exercise, I think it's really important not to mention the fact that mental health is really important in dogs. goes without saying, I think everyone's starting to realise that mental health is a really important thing that we should all be talking about. And outdoor exercise and fresh air for dogs and the ability for them to blow off some steam and use their nose and their limbs and all of those senses that they were born to use, it's really important to keep their mind happy.

Jacquie Mullin (11:39)
Definitely.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (11:57)
without going into too much detail. Obviously the gut brain access is really important as well, which is where the gut connects to the brain. A happy brain is a happy gut and a happy gut is a happy brain and that links to everything else in the body. So in terms of immune system as well, it's great to continue exercising in my

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (12:14)
Glad we all agree on that one. Isobel would you deem holistic traits for a breeder that obviously Jacquie has done? She's already mentioned some of them, do you have any key categories or sections that you feel a breeder's taken a more holistic approach to their breeding strategy?

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (12:31)
the first thing I'd say is an attitude of learning, an open mind to learning I think is the number one characteristic of a holistic breeder because it's somebody that's demonstrating they've got an open mindset and they want to learn more about what is best for their dogs. So it's not necessarily someone that's read every single book or feeds their dog on a certain thing or does...

this specific certain technique, I believe it's somebody that loves their dogs in a way where they want to do better. And that is how I would immediately identify somebody who would likely be a holistic breeder or somebody that's a holistic dog owner. Something that's just trying to do better.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (13:13)
Yeah, I think this definitely falls into having an open mindset and Jacquie's already given examples. to me, from your first breeding, Jacquie, where you had the C-section, that definitely wasn't, as you say, the plan. And you had relied, and Isobel we've talked about this, where we believe that dog owners should be going back to the breeder of their bitches for that help and support because they know that bloodline.

and they know the quirks that it has or some of the behaviors it might carry compared to other bloodlines. And Jacquie, you were perfect to do that, but it just goes to show to go with your gut feeling still because she was guiding you down one route of, no, no, everything could be all fine, but she did need that C-section. And I think we kind of had that same pattern when Elsy missed twice before is that your studs going, no, no, no.

let's mate on these days, let's mate on these days. So it makes me wonder that though is about always harp on about make sure you've got a good stud owner, make sure you go back to your bitches breeder that actually those people need to have that open learning attitude too. Because if they fall into having that fixed mindset of this is what we've always done, and this is what always happens, then that's that would that has been a detriment to you hasn't it in your breeding plans.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (14:23)
Yes.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (14:36)
maybe we haven't emphasised enough, Isobel about the...

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (14:39)
Open mindset, it's imperative.

It's so important. And like you said, it doesn't matter who's in your breeding team. If you can identify individuals that all have an open learning attitude that are in your breeding team, I think that's incredibly powerful. I would definitely say I'm an open mindset person, not a fixed mindset. Even now, every day is a school day and I learn every little bit of advice I can always pick up. You're exactly the same, Sara. I feel like we never stop learning and researching.

I think that is how you determine if somebody is a proactive and therefore likely to be a holistic breeder. It's somebody who's wanting to pick up and use the latest, most modern pieces of information to do the best for their dogs.

Jacquie Mullin (15:22)
Definitely. I think with me, I listened to people that are whippet racing, that quite know it all, be frank with you. Well, my bitch is always 11 and 13 days. She's always mated on those days. So I was going by what they were saying, but actually Elsy was day 23 and 24 when she ovulated.

At the time I was doing research and like I think I mentioned, she was known as a late acceptor and that was due to the fact that she was over two years old when she had her first season. So that was quite interesting I thought when I first found out about that. I didn't realise that because she was quite late coming into season for the first time, it meant that she was called a late acceptor. So she was never going to fall pregnant on day 11 and 13.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (16:16)
That's interesting. I know you've sent me that paper that you found about that, I haven't had a chance to read it yet actually. And I probably should send it on to Isobel as well, because we would both be interested in that. Because this again would be an interesting pattern to see. that could be a question that I could start asking my clients that I have in, like, when did she have her first season? Because that will start building up that picture of, is she going to be the typical 11 and 13, which

Jacquie Mullin (16:19)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (16:25)
Absolutely please do.

Jacquie Mullin (16:33)
Definitely.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (16:34)
Yes.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (16:43)
I don't know if people don't understand by now that they are literally just numbers that people have some preference to. it's just impossible to say whether you have an 11 and 13 until you ovulation test. And I hope that the listeners have heard the common theme throughout these podcasts episodes that people are progesterone testing because you are literally guessing and

Like you said, Jacquie, you had time against you. She'd already had two misses. So now you're pressed up against an age timeframe that if you just carry on testing all the way through, you, would have identified that a bit sooner. And also it highlights that there are experts, but you're racing people, they're experts in racing whippets. They're not reproduction experts.

Jacquie Mullin (17:31)
Yeah, that's

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (17:32)
Yeah, okay,

Jacquie Mullin (17:32)
right.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (17:33)
they do breed their dogs, but really their specialty is racing with it's keeping them in whatever condition, knowing the rules, regulations, all that kind of thing. And I think sometimes you need to know when to duck out and go, no, actually, I need to go the next level above.

Jacquie Mullin (17:44)
Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. And I think what was interesting as well, Sara, was that a vet had advised me, and I know we spoke about this, Sara, that when Elsy was day 21, she needed to be scanned so that we could make sure if she was in pup, we needed to hold onto those puppies. So she therefore needed an extra blood test so that we knew that her progesterone levels were doing the right thing.

So that's also quite interesting, I thought, because I'm not sure if that's something you do quite a lot, Sara, but within Elsy's case, we needed that blood test to make sure that her progesterone levels were right so she could stay pregnant because obviously we thought in the past she might have reabsorbed, but now I'm thinking, I don't think she did reabsorb. I just don't think she was ever pregnant before because yeah.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (18:33)
Yeah.

But as you say, you had to go all in because it was your last chance to salon. So we had to tick all the boxes regardless. But yeah, you're right. Some reproduction specialists in this country are all over it and some because they happen to have an open learning mindset. And yeah, they're filtering through new methods and practices.

Jacquie Mullin (18:40)
Yes.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (18:54)
that, I've certainly taken on board with complex cases. It doesn't need to happen with the run of the mill. But yeah, once you tick the complexity box, then we do all the things. Right, it would be great to know about some of the supplements that you've used. Because I know they've helped you on your journey and Isobel can obviously chime in at this point.

Jacquie Mullin (18:57)
Yes.

Okay.

Yeah,

definitely the Selenium I put Elsy on as advised by Isobel because obviously we wasn't sure if she had reabsorbed before puppies. So that's definitely one that I would have in my little kit if I was breeding again because that will help if certain breeds are...

quite prone to reabsorb, cetera. So definitely use selenium. Your raspberry leaf as well that you can give later on throughout the pregnancy to help with hopefully a seamless birth. Not always that doesn't happen, I know, but I do feel like these, like I said, the puppies are very strong and they really are thriving. So I feel like they have benefited from all of these

these supplements. Also, vet advised the folic acid as well. So she was on folic acid, selenium, and the raspberry leaf. I'm pretty sure that's right, isn't it, Isobel, from what I remember? Yeah.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (20:20)
Absolutely, yeah, you're, yeah, you've hit the nail on the head. I

don't know if you did organic wheat germ oil as well, I can't remember actually, Jacquie.

Jacquie Mullin (20:27)
Yes,

did also. did. did. You're right. I did the royal jelly. Sara mentioned to me when Elsy was early stages with her season. That really definitely, I believe, brought her into season. And what was the other one you said, Isobel, other than the royal jelly? The wheat germ.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (20:33)
Yeah.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (20:41)
Mm.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (20:45)
The other one, yeah, no, you're quite right.

I'm just thinking, yeah, wheat germ oil, because obviously following a failed mating or a miss, as you said, there are certain supplements that are always recommended. So it's the trio of selenium, royal jelly and organic wheat germ oil is the bundle that following a miss, you'd always want to start in preparation for the big day really, which is exactly the protocol that you followed this time around, wasn't it?

Jacquie Mullin (20:56)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. I definitely feel like, you know, she was absolutely fine throughout her pregnancy. And I just think with the C-section, you know, it's quite possibly could have been her age. You know, maybe her muscles wasn't as strong as a younger whippet anyway, but you know, she's absolutely fine within herself and she's come out of it perfect. And the pups are absolutely, like I said, perfect. So I would definitely go down that road again, you know, when I breed in a couple of years with these puppies I've got.

So I'm very grateful for the advice.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (21:39)
And it's interesting, because again, a common theme throughout these podcasts episodes are the supplements and I've had who was it? Sue, who won Breeder Excellence. she feels that she's lost less puppies, putting their females on the supplements. And she's a Labrador person and generally lab people.

keep things quite simple and basic. They don't really like to over complicate anything in any way, shape or form. But she decided that she wanted to do the supplements. And yeah, she certainly feels that the puppies are healthier, stronger, that she's not losing any that the bitches kept in better condition. And she'd also use the supplements on her male and it's improved his fertility as well. And who else? Shainy also mentioned about the supplements. So it's good.

to hear consistent feedback across various different breeds and how they're seeing that benefit because some people will argue and go, well, why are you doing those? I feed my bitch a good quality food and what more does she need? Like she wouldn't get any extra supplements in the wild, but I'm a true believer it does make a difference.

I think it's important about the, I'm gonna big you up Isobel now, it's important about the quality of supplements. So I think some people have used supplements and said they don't work because the quality of the supplements they're giving aren't good enough or that the dosage is incorrect. So I think Isobel's done a really amazing job of finding some really high quality supplements, but also making sure that people give them the correct way and in the correct dosage.

Jacquie Mullin (23:16)
Absolutely, because I think Isobel mentioned that the raspberry leaf needs to look a certain color. If you're going to get the ones from your supermarket, they're just not the same. They're not natural. Isobel's obviously done her research and it's nice to know that what I'm putting into my bitch is all natural and it's not any nasties.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (23:40)
quality. So it's really, really important to do your research and make sure that you're not falling into a camp where it might be really easy to purchase bunch of Amazon.

Jacquie Mullin (23:40)
one of my friends when I was like early stages of breeding Elsy, she's in Yorkshire, she races Whippets as well and she's like, let me send you the link to Isobel. She's really great. You could get all your

supplements from her. said, thanks very much, but I'm already using these supplements. Yeah, so my friend Sarah up in Yorkshire was...

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (23:52)
and really cheap and come today if not tomorrow. But actually if what is inside those supplements isn't

what it's meant to be, then it's going to do absolutely no benefit if not harm. Because a lot of pillars, particularly in the white, sort of tablet-based supplements are really

Jacquie Mullin (24:02)
you know, telling me about you. And I said, I'm already on the supplements, Sarah. I said, thank you very much. But what a small world, you know, like in the Whippet Racing world. She's in Yorkshire, and I'm in Eastbourne, at Polegate, and we're using you for our supplements.

goat's milk. I've actually bought, I've got a few pints of it and Elsy absolutely loves it. She's on

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (24:18)
I love to hear that I'm able to support. And again, it goes back to grassroots.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (24:25)
Well, I think it's interesting now because these dog owners were so empowered with, guess, the use of the internet. You can ask Google pretty much anything and you will get a response, a reply, whether the credibility of it is another

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (24:36)
100 % it's the most common misconception that people and they're not

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (24:41)
And what I realised is I took two of my dogs, I took my puppy actually, King, to the vet for his first vaccination. And he was, he's just over 10 weeks old, so I thought I was fine. I'll take him down for his first vaccination because I want to start getting him out and about.

And I took one of my other dogs as well that, she basically developed a load of scabs on her back that hadn't bothered her. hadn't scratched them, I couldn't work out whether it's some kind of reaction or yeah, just, wasn't sure. So I thought, well, if I'm going there anyway, I'll take her in. And I could not believe how the vet did not ask me any questions about my dog's lifestyle. so I was like, how can she diagnose a condition?

without knowing what she's eating, what supplements I'm giving her, where do I exercise her, how do I exercise her, what's her engagement with other dogs, how many other dogs, she literally didn't ask. so that just proves that vets aren't given a holistic view, are they?

Jacquie Mullin (25:36)
Yeah, because it could have been an allergy to something you've been giving her and she didn't ask those questions.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (25:42)
didn't

ask about cleaners. Have I changed cleaners? Have I changed laundry detergent? Have I got a wax candle, you know, burning that I'm obsessed with? Literally didn't ask any questions. And I thought, well, we're taking, you know, the whole point of this podcast is a holistic breeder. We're looking at the whole entire sphere of that dog and making sure we can.

keep it as wholesome as possible. So when we breed her, that she breeds puppies that are as healthy and fit and healthy as possible, and she's as safe as possible. Yeah, I'm taking my dog to an expert because it's not very well, and she didn't ask anything about that dog's lifestyle.

Jacquie Mullin (26:22)
quite scary really.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (26:24)
Well, it shows.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (26:25)
and false of security, where you're sending your puppy to the and saying, yeah, they've had their first vaccinations or even heard of being fully vaccinated by eight to 10 weeks. new owners fly off to their life thinking that puppy is completely covered.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (26:25)
it's not comparable to because this is private health dog care that I'm paying for. It's not government funded. So I'm expecting the standards to be a bit higher. actually told in that consultation that my dog had Lepto 3, which

Jacquie Mullin (26:30)
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (26:42)
I was like, Lepto 3.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (26:43)
actually

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (26:45)
I've not heard of this as a thing. So anyway, I come back and Googled it. It doesn't exist.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (26:46)
some of all of that

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (26:51)
I'm slightly concerned. That is a vet practice that I use just because it's local to me and I can do basic stuff like puppy vaccinations. But I'm, yeah, I'm concerned. well, I said to Isobel, I think that consultation rooms should be recorded.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (26:52)
Some if not all of the efficacy of the vaccine has been completely and utterly doubled by maternal antibodies that still within that pup. So you could be running around with a vaccinated pup essentially,

despite the fact you've got two stickers in your book.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (27:09)
because I think there should be evidence of some

of these conversations that are happening because I feel that some pet owners are being blamed for not understanding the situation when actually they probably did, they were told the wrong thing. So I might take a slightly different approach now to record in my consultations whenever I go to the vets to have a clear understanding of what they've said to me and that I've interpreted the right.

Jacquie Mullin (27:13)
Yeah.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (27:16)
I'll always preach the word small animal. The word small animal... What is it? The word small animal.

Jacquie Mullin (27:22)
Well, yeah.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (27:34)
Yes,

the guidelines are fabulous. Anyone wanting to read more?

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (27:35)
interpret it the right way and actually that they've told me the right

thing in the first place. So I get it. They're an industry, they are under pressure, they're super busy. know, dogs are popular. But when I'm paying, I think it was a £60 consultation for them to ask me no questions. What was the consultation for then? What was I paying for? So I'm just a bit concerned that the veterinary

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (27:54)
Sorry, did I?

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (27:57)
industry. Yes, they do have their own pressures. And I think there are bigger pressures in regards to animal, well, dog ownerships, animals in this country. But it's concerning that vets aren't able to identify owners and what stance they might have in regards to having a holistic approach by just asking some basic general questions, which seemingly we now have dog breeders doing so surely it should be extended.

past that, should be a more open part of the community and how services are provided, in my opinion.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (28:32)
Yeah, you can buy wheat paste if you'd feel more confident.

Jacquie Mullin (28:35)
Yeah, that's right. Because you're paying for that

service but you're not actually getting it.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (28:39)
Yeah, and it's expensive. It's not cheap, is it? Like said, to own a dog isn't cheap. So to look after them, to keep them in good condition. So surely we should get a service that's of that quality. But yeah, that was just me taking on a tangent in regards to, yeah, just not overly convinced that the holistic approach is being applied to all elements of dog care, which is a shame.

Jacquie Mullin (28:41)
Yeah, good.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (28:45)
You can, can go. Sorry, my internet's off.

Jacquie Mullin (28:47)
Yeah.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (29:01)
What was that, sorry? Scrambled

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (29:03)
Right. Should we move on to the quick fire round?

so I've just got a couple of short questions, that you, you know, don't worry about too much. But I'm going to start with supplements, pre or post pregnancy, or both. What's your I thought you might say that. What would be your number one recommended item or tool in regards to dog breeding or service? I suppose I should add it.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (29:05)
an interesting one. mean, obviously, yeah, there's no need to sign, like there's no need to include it in your eating protocol. The only reason that I do introduce my puppies to eggs before they leave is because again, if I'm hoping that people are going to, well, I expect they don't want to have any one of my ducks to

Jacquie Mullin (29:17)
Both

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (29:29)
a raw fed dog they should be having eggs in their diets to ensure they get the range of nutrients required really. So even my adult dogs they're an egg, two eggs a week. So with that in mind I personally do introduce my puppies to eggs while they're with me but I wouldn't necessarily use it as a tool to get them weaned.

Jacquie Mullin (29:29)
Listen to your gut 100%. Don't always think that the person that's bred a lot more litters than you are going to know more than you.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (29:38)
Amazing. Thank you. If you had to summarise holistic ownership or holistic dog breeding in one word, what would it be?

Jacquie Mullin (29:51)
Priceless.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (29:54)
What are going to call your puppies if you've got

any names? Sorry.

Jacquie Mullin (29:56)
Yes,

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (29:56)
So

Jacquie Mullin (29:57)
Ida is the, I've got a cream girl, which I ordered her. So the universe literally gave me what I wanted, which was brilliant. We, wanted three boys and two girls and Elsy provided that, which is fantastic. So the cream girl is called Ida and the black girl is called Ivy. And the stud dog owner's still not chosen his cause he can't, he said, I want all three of them. And I'm like, well, you can't because the other two are.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (29:57)
I would sort of get them to the point where they're eating reliably on the actual meat. And then once they're at that point, they're really well. That's when I introduce the novel things. I've said about six weeks. That's when I introduce the exciting things like scrambled chicken wings and sprouts, some mackerels. Because at that point you've kind of got over the, no, you are.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (30:15)
nice. Nice. I am...

Jacquie Mullin (30:24)
Obviously,

they've been booked for three years, these puppies, but hopefully he'll choose tomorrow when they all come.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (30:25)
going to eat real food now you've of you've broken through that barrier and

then that's when I reduce everything so I just don't get too early on because think that's your most likely to get puffy puppies is you're trying to wean on too many different things that that's three to four for half week mark really

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (30:31)
Oh bless, yeah sounds like you. I always tell the story now of you all your crystals down your bra. I always share that with people now go look keep the faith, keep the faith. There was once I went to this

Jacquie Mullin (30:38)
Yes! Yeah! Definitely, they worked. Oh yeah.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (30:46)
lady's house and she had all her positive crystals all in her bra and it worked.

Jacquie Mullin (30:47)
Oh. Oh yeah, honestly that day was... That was so lovely that day, Sara, when you went, well there's two there straight away. I was like, what? What? What? Yeah, well there's two. they're... Oh my god. Oh, that was the best day of my life.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (31:01)
It's really nice.

It's nice to see people that have tried really hard. And obviously that's why you were a rising star finalist and also winner the holistic Breeder award. Because to see someone fail and go, no, I'm going to go again. And then it not work again and go, right. What can I change? What can I improve? What can I do differently? And I'm going to go again. And it was almost third time lucky, but you literally pulled out all the stops. I think, you know, you had a

moment of this needs to work, I need to tick all the boxes, I need to make sure I've covered all bases and you've done exactly that and it paid off. So what more, you know, the proof is in the pudding and then to get such a wonderful size litter to know that everybody's all okay, mum's doing super great, like from Isobel and my point of view, that's what we like to see and that's what we like to back and that's what we like to champion, that someone that takes the role seriously learns by their mistakes.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (31:42)
you

Jacquie Mullin (31:43)
Definitely, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (32:00)
does better the next time and then they're rewarded for it. We couldn't ask for a better outcome.

Jacquie Mullin (32:03)
Definitely, definitely.

And the blood test, because we stopped twice before, we were like, we're just going to try it on that day. You've got to keep blood testing. like, obviously, Elsy had those seven blood tests and that was quite costly and quite time consuming. However, they are for a reason. You have those blood tests for a reason and that's because you want to get your bitch pregnant. You can't just guess. You've got to go right to the end.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (32:28)
No.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (32:30)
Yeah, I say to people when you've gone so far with the blood testing, you have to keep going. Otherwise, it literally is a waste of time, money, energy. And I think some people think that I'm trying to squeeze you for money. I'm like, no, if you want to do the job properly, this is what it takes. And you can stop at any time. It makes no difference to me. It's not my female. But yeah, and sometimes it takes a little while for the penny to drop.

Jacquie Mullin (32:35)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's right, yeah.

Yeah.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (32:53)
But you got there in the end, so it's fine.

Jacquie Mullin (32:55)
Yeah.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (32:56)
my last final question for you is, if you had to describe breeding in one word, what would it be?

Jacquie Mullin (33:03)
beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (33:05)
that's nice, because you've got some beautiful pups to stare at.

Well, I want to thank you for taking the time out really sharing your story with the listeners and to officially award you the Holistic Breeder Award. I think I don't know if Isobel's still here or whether she's dropped out. Is she still here?

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (33:26)
because if you think that's that's total trust in and between open mindset fixed mind that it's obvious they go through their training and their brain trying to diagnose based on visual cues but actually as bodies are so much more

Jacquie Mullin (33:26)
She might have dropped out, I think, yeah.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (33:26)
No, think she's dropped So I'll say thank you on Isobel's. no, she's back twice.

Jacquie Mullin (33:32)
Well thank you, thank you both, I really appreciate it. Thank you for the award.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (33:36)
your certificate and rosette will be on its way shortly, So I hope you display it with pride and you take it as a nice...

Isobel (33:41)
to display.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (33:42)
Just make you cry, make you

Jacquie Mullin (33:44)
Definitely. I'm gonna put it in a frame.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (33:46)
take it as well.

your rosettes already framed. yeah, your will actually be in the presentation folder as well. So we've stepped it up. But yeah, I hope you take it as part of the journey really. And it's great that you shared your learnings with other people and that hopefully they can take something positive away from it. And yeah, best not make the mistakes that you did and at worst end up with a lovely bunch of puppies.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (33:47)
So much more complex. I mean, sorry, we've had, you know, we had our first fact-finding consult together for one of your previous docs. it's, mean, the first 45 minutes of any, any in-depth consultation with me is, what you feeding? What have you done differently in the last week? What have you done differently in the last

Jacquie Mullin (33:48)
lovely. That's on the wall then.

that's lovely.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (34:10)
we literally

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (34:10)
Thank

you ever so much and yeah, enjoy the rest of your day.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (34:12)
to unpick the entire lifestyle

Jacquie Mullin (34:14)
Thanks, Sara. Thanks. Thanks,

Isobel. Really appreciate it. Have a lovely day. See you then. Bye.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (34:16)
and your environment that that dog has been in that period of time,

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (34:18)
No worries. Thank you. Bye.

Isobel (34:20)
Thank