Beyond Average: What the 2024 ABA Winners Taught Us

What does it really mean to raise the bar in modern dog breeding, and how do you avoid getting stuck on average? 

In this final episode of the Annual Breeder Awards series, Sara and Isobel reflect on the standout stories shared throughout the season, from holistic Whippets and powerful Mastiffs to stud dogs backed by substance, not just style.

They dig into why structured breeding matters, how to learn from outside your breed bubble, and why recognising best practices isn't about ego but about progress. If you're ready to take the next step, you'll also hear how to apply for the 2025 ABAs and how joining the Brew Crew gives you access to the support, systems and community needed to keep doing things correctly.

📝 Applications now open: breedersbrew.com/aba
🫖 Join the Brew Crew: breedersbrew.com/brewcrew

📌 Show Notes: breedersbrew.com/notes/s3e27

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Transcript

Sara Lamont (00:00)
Welcome to the final episode of the Annual Breeder Awards series. This one's a reflection, what we've learned, who inspired us, and why responsible breeding deserves proper recognition. If you've bred a litter this year or plan to, I'll also share how to apply for the 2025 awards. Let's wrap this series out with a bit of inspiration and a reminder that none of us came here to be average.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (00:49)
So welcome to the final episode of the ABA, the annual Breeder Award series Brew podcast. So I hope you've enjoyed the variety variation.

different skill sets, breeds, it just goes to show there are so many people out there doing fabulous and wonderful things. And I'm super glad that I've been able to shine a light on them and for you to have a little look into what they're doing and how they're doing it. Because I think you would agree, Isabel, sometimes when you're new to breeding, your circle

would generally only be the people that either have the same breed as you, because you've got that same common interest, or people that location-wise are near to you. I think it's very hard to break outside of that.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (01:42)
Yes.

Yeah, I completely agree. And I think unless you're immersed in a dog community, whether that be something like fly ball or agility, where you are naturally going to meet people from other breeds, Having said that, there'll still be quite a bias on which breeds you might meet through those sort of activities. But you're right. I think it's really unusual to end up with sort of dog friends and dog community with a breadth of such different backgrounds.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (02:09)
Yeah, I mean, even through showing, generally, if it's a big championship show, it's utility and toy. So very rarely do I get to see the gundogs, do I see the terriers, do I see a big scale level, little shows, slightly different, but then you're probably too busy focused on getting your dog shown. So I think, yeah, even if you do have an activity, it's just still within your, in this little silo.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (02:15)
Yeah.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (02:32)
So it's quite nice to be able to break out of that. I've super enjoyed doing the interviews because, and obviously I actually work with clients and I see them face to face with their dogs and I see all the different breeds anyway, but it was nice to be able to have like a long conversation with somebody and just unpick what they do and why they do it. And what I really enjoyed about the episodes.

It's just the backstory behind everybody is so different, how they've fallen into the breed. Most of them didn't even say, didn't go in thinking, I'm going to breed dogs. They just had a dog and then they seem to have did the health testing and then it sort of, was, it was all green lights. There was no reason not to. So it just goes to show how you can easily and mean to a degree, different to us, how you can just naturally fall into.

becoming a breeder and taking on that role, but not necessarily realizing the responsibility that comes with it. And I guess that's the whole reason of Breeders Brew and being a Brew Crew member is that we help people realize some of the responsibilities and some of the impacts it can have if they're not done right.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (03:37)
Yeah, absolutely. I think enjoying the journey is so important as well. think when you go into breeding with no intention of breeding, as in you're a loving dog owner and you think we'll just try it out and you're learning everything for the first time and you may not have the dog community around you, I think it can be really daunting and

I think it's so refreshing having a community around you that you can go to, seek advice and find out answers to problems before they even occur so that you can truly actually enjoy every stage of what is a really beautiful journey when it all goes to plan. So I'm really proud of the Breed Crew and what we're building. I think it's lovely and we've got a really interesting community of people with plenty of different breeds, different stages in their breeding journey, different experience levels, which actually...

beautifully mirrors the ABA finalists really in some respect. I think there is quite a strong stigma attached to the word breeder and for some reason there does seem to be a stereotype in people's minds but I hope this ABA has really debunked that and just shown that actually anyone that adores their dogs and is proactive and goes down the route of breeding

be a really awesome breeder and prioritises all the right things and just totally and utterly shatters that myth completely.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (04:46)
I think, well, as we know from some of our Brew Crew members, it's not just in the UK the stigma is attached to. There are certain states in America where it's very much frowned upon. And it is sad because how are people going to get healthy quality dogs unless there are good quality breeders doing the right thing? And yeah, if there are bad connotations attached to it is because it's not been governed in the right way.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (04:54)
Mm.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (05:11)
And that needs to be improved, if anything, not that the fact that dog breeding exists, it should be, how do we educate people to do it better? Again, another reason for the Breeders Brew is how can we share that knowledge? I've always had a bit of a gripe in the UK anyway about how it's managed and between DEFRA, Kennel Club and all that kind of stuff. And I won't bang on that anymore. But I do feel that if you...

Yeah, it's just great to decide for yourself what type of breeder you want to be and put yourself around those like minded people to improve the quality of what you're doing. You can't you can't worry about what everybody else is doing. But as long as you're breeding responsibly to benchmarks to standards, and you're consistent with doing that, you can do no more. It basically means that you've most certainly

maintains the breed, why it's been in your care, if not improved it, that you wouldn't have left it any worse than when you got involved, which ultimately I think is what looking after a breed is all around. All around? All about even.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (06:14)
exactly I just think everyone starts waving the preservation flag a bit prouder and a bit taller a bit better I think we can all change that that stigma potentially that's attached together because like you said everyone wants a pet dog you know you see so many so many you see the statistics they've never been higher pet ownership has never been higher than it is now so people need healthy pet dogs you know they need their family members and without us where are they going so

I just think the ABAs has been such a beautiful presentation of people are doing it right and there should be respect given to them, there should be a real achievement, they should feel a real sense of achievement because they have achieved something great, know, they're doing things properly, taking every box and some and allowing other people to learn from...

from their experiences and sharing their experiences in a way that hopefully inspires some more people to just raise the bar.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (07:13)
which in doing so, which you kind of stepped on is that I'm going to open the applications for the ABA awards for 2025. So if you've listened, yeah. So if you've listened to, and this is worldwide, international, because the completion form's fairly detailed of the evidence that you'd need to provide to justify the category that you want to apply for.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (07:26)
Yay!

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (07:41)
but it's very much open to all. So there will be a link on [http://breedersbrew.com](http://breedersbrew.com "smartCard-inline")  website for you to, and we welcome you to apply, the more the merrier, because we want to correctly recognize and reward good people doing good things. And the problem with dog breeding is that no one really talks, I think with dog breeding, we just go, we've got some pups and we kept them alive. We've done a good job.

We don't always necessarily retrospectively look back at how we got to that point, how we can improve it, what we do really good, what we could improve on. So I think this is a nice, the ABAs is a really nice way of being recognised for the good work that you're doing. Because otherwise it doesn't go recognised unless you happen to have a dog activity and you compete and then that one dog that you bred actually goes and wins X, Y and Z. But there's a lot more dogs out there.

that will never be in that situation, but they're still really quality, healthy dogs. So yeah, the first bit of news for this episode is that ABA's annual Breeder Awards for 2025 are officially open. There's a pretty long window because I know we're only halfway through the year. So if you already think that you smashed it out the park this year, then obviously apply straight away, tick the box and then we'll be in contact as...

and when we go through all the nominations, but it will be open until the end of the year. So if you've not had your litter yet, don't worry. The window will stay open, so it's fine. But obviously, when you have your next litter or any breeding experience, bear in mind the evidence that you could collect to justify why you should win the award and why you're so amazing. You know, I'm all for pictures.

all sorts, testimonials, feedback, all the things like we're here for it all. So just bear that in mind. But as I say, it's not anything to be scared of. We most certainly welcome anybody that has listened to the episodes and thought, I do that, or I do that and I do this, this and this and this that we want to hear from you because we want to give grassroots dog breeders the recognition they deserve.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (09:50)
Beautifully said. couldn't have said it any better myself Sara. Absolutely. I hope everyone feels really inspired to get involved and I know for a lot of people it's not something they do very often which is, you know, bigging themselves up, being a bit braggy. But actually sometimes you have got to give yourself a pat on the back and it can be a really...

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (09:52)
You

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (10:06)
gratifying experience sitting down and reflecting on how well you're doing because I mean the fact you're even listening to this and listening to me and Sarah chat dogs just shows genuinely how passionate you really are about doing things properly otherwise you wouldn't be here so so you might as well do an application because you're already halfway there

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (10:25)
Well, I'm going to say straight away, there are three benefits to applying. Whether you win or not, the three benefits will be because you're reviewing and reflecting on actions that you've already done, you will learn because you're reviewing, you're reflecting, you're going to see things that you could have done better or things that worked really well to know whether you should do that going forward. So automatically you will improve on your existing...

protocols because you're reviewing on the effectiveness of them all, of them. So without a doubt, like straight away as a freebie, you're gonna do better next time. The next one is, is going to give you confidence because you're actually seeing what you do, your, cause it's so easy just to muddle through and to get on with what you're doing. And for instance, I had a conversation the other day and they said, right, rearing the pups is the easy thing. Like that's fine.

but we still have 15 other dogs to look after. So that's, and it's true, like, if I just had to sit and look after my babies, my little puppies, and that's it, but life still goes on around you. that's a, to be able to continue the, to meet the needs and demands of your adult dogs, as well as rear puppies to top notch quality and entertain.

puppy inquiries and promote your breed and do all the things. You cannot underestimate that. So when you start sitting down and looking at, yeah, all these things that I do is going to give you a confidence boost without a doubt. And then my final one is promotion. Like who doesn't wanna win an award? You'll be crazy not to. And even with the ABAs, obviously the winners get the promo. The finalists got a lot of promo, but.

We try and engage everybody at all the steps all along the way that we want you to be able to, we want to be able to give you some credit that you can then say, hey everybody, I've actually been doing this, this and this. These people agree, this is what I've done and that's how I'm different to everybody else. That's why my puppies are worth this amount of money or that's why I breed this type of breed or whatever it might be, whatever your niche is.

I think it just gives you a bit of credit that you can go and shout about and share. As you say, which Isabel's already said, doesn't naturally come to a lot of dog breeders and culturally sometimes is complex. And then also thinking about, there's people out there that are gonna, they know I'm a dog breeder, they're gonna give me an earful. But at least now you've got a counter of going, I breed dogs, but I've won this, this and this. And so I'm not.

not scraping the bottom of the barrel, I'm doing really quality work with quality dogs. So to me, instantly, three amazing benefits of applying, so why wouldn't you?

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (13:06)
Absolutely and I mean look at the and I mean all that we've heard is great feedback from everybody that was part of the ABA podcast interview so far every reader said how much they loved the opportunity and that actually they found it really enjoyable and they never in a million years have considered doing a podcast let alone any type of interview or recording and they already enjoyed it so it just goes to show push yourself outside your comfort zone and you might you might find a new hobby

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (13:31)
Isabel, should I talk through some highlights of the episode? So.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (13:35)
Yeah, let's reflect. We're already saying how important

it is to reflect. Let's reflect ourselves.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (13:39)
Yeah, so I'm gonna name a few of the interviews or a few of the points that I found interesting, intriguing, and that I thought everybody could benefit from. So the first one is Jackie Mullin, who was the Holistic Award winner.

and her story of her whippet Elsie. So this was an interesting one because, and unfortunately it was a slightly short episode because we had

gremlins in the in the recording equipment at the time. And so unfortunately, we lost a lot of some of the information that Jackie talked about. But I thought this was a really interesting one from the point of view how Jackie had followed people, advice of people that was in a breed, and also fairly local to her, but some of them not some of them still far away, because she had the competitive element because she

has a, she racism, I believe from what I can remember. And they kind of took her down a path that she didn't need to go down that ended up being a dead end. And they took her down that path twice for her to realize, no, I need to start from the beginning. I need to stop my eyes, cross my T's, follow a systematic process. And I've said this before.

I've said this before that the most successful breeders that I experienced are the ones that are systematic in their approach to breeding, regardless of the breed, regardless of the female, they will do the same things for every single dog. Because then if it doesn't work, it's easier to find out by process of elimination, what potentially is the glitch that they need to go and fix. So Jackie had been sent down this path twice and it was a dead end. And then she realized she had a

Well, don't say come to Jesus moment, but maybe not say that on this podcast. But she had a moment where she realizes that she needed to be systematic with what she did and follow experts advice. That was me and Isabel with supplements as well, and stick to that until it was successful and it was successful. So I think this highlights sort of two things of having a process, but also

that spending the right amount of money upfront could save you money in the long run because she had two previous misses, which ultimately still meant she had to meet up with studs. She still paid stud fees. She had half-heartedly ovulation tested. That was one of the problems. The method of mating was a little bit of a problem as well. So there was a few things in that, think.

remember whether it was Elsie's last chance wasn't it so think she was age wasn't on her side either so yeah she sort of had these sort of ticking time bombs that she needed to avoid it and she hadn't really done that on the first two attempts and I not necessarily so doing things properly can the money can soon stack up as with anything if you if you're going to do something properly there's always going to generally be some cost

associated to it, whether it be time, energy, effort, or finances, somewhere you're going to give up some of that. yet, ultimately, in the long run, it works like buy the supplements, follow the processes, until the experts say you've achieved what you've needed to do. And then that kicks you on to the next step that you need to adhere to.

And I think Jackie learnt that the hard way. And I think now, I don't believe she's going to breed anytime soon because she kept two puppies out of that litter because they're so special to her. So unless eventually she wants to breed from those girls, there's no immediate plan for her to breed.

But I have no doubt when she does next breed, she will be very systematic in her approach to, she's now learnt the lesson basically.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (17:19)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I think for me, you highlighted the biggest takeaway there so well, is how important it is to have a process, but not only follow the process, but always reflect on it and then improve it. Because you might sit down, create the best process and you think, I've got this all mapped out, I know exactly what I'm going to do. You follow it to a T thinking that's perfect. And then it's not until it falls over that you realize that there's space for growth. And it's the best open-minded,

most loving dog owners of all that really take the time to sit down and actually improve that for next time. think Jackie did that by the bucket loads where she thought, actually I've had two really gutting experiences. I had, you know, like you said, she, she created this plan with, with trusted advisors,

albeit wasn't the best source of advice, but at the time it was potentially the only place she had to go. And it just goes to show actually, no, she sat down, she approached more experts, got more advice, really, really, really, really drilled down into every nitty gritty part of her breeding plan and thought, right, well, where did I fall over? Identified those areas really well and proactively managed it so that next time around she was ticking every single box as part of that journey.

and look how successful it was and I'm absolutely chuffed that she got the outcome that she so desperately deserved because the learner attitude and how open-minded she was was fantastic even after such devastating two misses because a lot of people at that point would just throw the towel in or think well I've only got one last one last shot I'll just I'll just give it a go whereas Jackie actually gave everything

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (18:52)
Yeah, one of the things is about and I keen about in regards to the brew crew is that we're basically putting together models and processes for people to follow. It's not a free for all. There is a structure to follow. And so we are developing those and learning them over time so that we can share with other people, which obviously is what the brew crew is about.

And the interesting thing with Jackie is that so recently in the brew crew, we had a spotlight session where we talked about the wellness triad. So three key elements that we feel individuals should follow with their female, particularly if their females are previously missed. One of the elements we talk about is in regards to stress and reducing stress. Now Jackie had taken this to a whole new level because her female was due for scanning.

and it was fireworks around the fireworks season and the female doesn't do very well with that kind of environment. So Jackie had decided that obviously walking was all off. That was a no go basically, not going to unnecessarily stress her while the eggs were implanted. She didn't want to compromise that because of the previous history that we've had. And so she had reduced her stress levels as much as possible to even the point of

she opted for a mobile scan because she didn't want to take Elsie out of her home environment and cause any unnecessary concern for her. and then she still had a progress scan after that as well. So it's interesting that, she was basically following some advanced models that

Isabel and I now recommend to people, particularly in that instance with a missed female, that you sort of have to go over and above. What I've come to learn is that I generally have to share with people that fertility isn't a given. And I think with dog breeders, especially new and novice dog breeders, you assume that your dog has fertility. Because almost like with humans, I think we assume that everybody has good fertility.

because otherwise why are we on this planet until you try and reproduce and then it doesn't always go straightforward. And I think that's definitely our opinions as humans that's reflected in our dogs. And obviously Jackie found out that wasn't necessarily a given in her instance with Elsie. So then she's had to make alternative measures to improve her fertility, which we got there in the end. So that's amazing.

And as I've already said, they are echoed in the brew crew. and we are currently constantly building systems and processes because what we've realized is about I, we get to step back and see the wider picture of everybody and...

and articulate the patterns basically to share with people. So you avoid all the pitfalls and minimize your risk as much as possible, which you can't share all the time everywhere. But we definitely share it all in the brew crew, which is what we'll come on to in a bit is the promo code that's still available for you to join up, which I think you should. But yeah, that's just a little bit of the lengths that Jackie went to.

to improve her bitch's fertility as much as possible. yeah, I'm sure she's more than happy now at home with her two lovely puppies and mum and their other dogs. think she went from two to four.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (22:04)
sensible jump in my mind.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (22:06)
You've always got to pair them off. You can't have odd numbers. I keep telling everyone. Which were both that actually. We both got odd numbers. Oh dear, I sure have had that fixed. Right, another highlight I wanted to talk about.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (22:08)
Yeah.

We are both odds. Yeah. Well, that's a good excuse for us to multiply, isn't it? Let's be honest.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (22:22)
and was actually raised, well, it brought up in conversation on a bitch and brew catch up call that we had within the brew crew. And it was Steve's, the Mastiff, Steve with the Mastiffs who won Breed Mastery Award. And the comments were interesting because they basically just said, wow, that's such a difficult breed.

That's crazy. Everything seems really difficult and really complex, of which I said, yes, it certainly is. Yeah, I think it just.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (22:53)
I

was a really eye-opening episode for lot of people actually, wasn't it, Sarah? Because I think if you've got a breed of dog that is naturally quite easy with their fertility cycles, quite easy whelpers, maybe a smaller breed like I've got, where I take for granted how low my maintenance costs are, when you actually listen to that episode and hear the lengths to which somebody has to go to to own and not only own, but manage and breed that breed,

is just phenomenal. It just shows sheer passion by the bucket load.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (23:25)
Yeah, I don't know. Well, there's no other incentive, so has to be passion, doesn't it? Passion or stupidity? And Steve's definitely not stupid, so it must be passion. But yeah, it is a pure, raw passion that they've just besotted by a breed and will basically do anything and everything to ensure that it can carry on for the next generation, for somebody else in the future.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (23:34)
you

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (23:49)
to be besotted by the breed to then carry it on for the next generation. It's no more purer than that. yeah, I've always realized there's quite a big discrepancy. So for instance, people might see an English bulldog puppy for sale for 4,000 pounds and think, oh, that's such an expensive puppy. But then when you compare it against other breedability of dogs, okay, yeah, that's a 4,000 puppy.

puppy, but generally you've got a c-section to pay for. Generally your litter size is four to six puppies. Realistically, what's the difference between a 4,000 pound puppy from a bulldog and say a 1500 pound puppy from a Labrador who has no c-section, kicks out eight to 10 puppies and can have more litters because you're not having c-sections. If you worked that out, it probably all works out the same.

So it just goes to show initially, well, and some will probably possibly argue that the invested time in rearing a Labrador litter would probably be less than the Bulldog litter. So again, that's when it comes into the passion. That's when I guess you decide, you know, more than just money, where do you want to put your time, energy, and it feeds into the passion that you have for that breed. But it does raise the fact of

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (24:52)
Definitely.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (25:06)
you know, realistically, some people couldn't afford to breed some well, what it does do is it dictates what breed you possibly breed and how much you sell those puppies for. mean, realistically, gosh, I dread to think how much Steve would have to sell his puppies for to try and break even on that breed. No.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (25:27)
probably not even worth trying to calculate in all honesty

because then it wouldn't be in their mind a fair price for somebody to pay for a family member pet.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (25:36)
Yeah, so they are purely running on passion, which is great, but not everybody can afford that. So I think it's always worth thinking about. I don't believe that you should breed at a loss. I think you should always have an idea of finances for your breeders and for your dogs.

But equally, I believe if you do make money, that should be reinvested back into your dogs, back into the quality of care that they receive, the health insurance, all that kind of stuff, the food that they're fed, the environment that they're kept in, the health testing that you participate. So to me, I'm definitely pro for people profiting by breeding dogs, as long as it's reinvested back in their dogs. It's not to go on a Caribbean cruise.

It's for that and it could come down to like you got to buy a dog wagon So you've got to buy a second vehicle that's going to be a van or like you rip up all your carpet and you have to put wipeable floors down like I am not against home improvements that are in for the benefit of your dog Why would you make your make your life more difficult not doing that? And I think that's the problem. It can be seen from the outside in four thousand puppy

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (26:24)
Yes.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (26:49)
4,000 pound puppy and now you've got a new car and now you're building an extension because of this. Well, yeah, because it's for the dogs.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (26:58)
Yeah, I think you've raised a really

interesting point there actually because I think a lot of people probably curl their toes a little bit by the sound of someone profiting from an animal. think that could be a really uncomfortable topic of conversation for a lot of people, but I

think you've uncovered a really clear two sides of the boundary on this one, where actually we're not just talking about profiteering and going off on a Caribbean cruise. Like you said, there's a complete difference if there is money made and it goes back into improving that dog's welfare and that dog then leads a better life for the fact that actually it did have a few more puppies than you were expecting or something else, then actually are you not improving the quality of that dog's life therefore then what is the issue?

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (27:39)
Yeah. And also you might put it in the kitty. So then you can pick a better stud dog or you might decide to import some semen that you wouldn't have previously. You start being able to have more options available to you that you've ever previously considered because you've always been price conscious because you don't want to be seen to be greedy. But actually by, and it's not being greedy because my comeback is even charities have to make money. Like otherwise what's the

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (27:52)
you

reinvest and help

yeah yeah feed the children quite literally like if the charity is to feed the children they need to earn money to feed the children so yeah I suppose yeah that makes sense what you're saying Sarah ⁓

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (28:07)
Yeah, exactly, to help. So and that's what we're doing. Yeah.

⁓ Yeah, so

just like, so no breeder, you were not charities, but even if you were charities, you still need to make money because you got to feed the kids, you got to feed the dogs, you want to be picking the best stud dogs. And so I think sometimes because people quite have gone on tangent here, I apologize, but because sometimes people don't want to be perceived as greedy, they undercharge for their puppies, which ultimately squishes them in what?

available to them or what they can do. And so then they could potentially start cutting corners. then think and so and then that's a detriment to the dogs bizarrely. It doesn't make any sense. Like, to me this day and age, there's no reason why any bulldog ever should be bred that hasn't been Boas tested. It's a 50 pound test. There's no excuse. Literally, there's no excuse. It's like you run around a car park.

and they listen to them. They don't go under, they're not screened in any difficult way that needs to have chemicals, scans, whatever. You run around the car, they listen to the breathing, you run around the car park, they listen to their breathing, they score you. That's it. So now I know the score of my dog. I know what I can breed her to for 50 pounds. There's literally no excuse for 50 pounds. It's crazy. So anyway, I think what's come out of that is that,

Yeah, Steve has very high maintenance breed for all the right and wrong reasons because of the size of them, because they're vulnerable, because they're so difficult to breed, like there's tons of reasons. And it's so great that he is willing to put in all that passion in keeping that breed going. But realistically, some people wouldn't be able to, and they have that same passion. So then if you want to keep with that, whatever breed it is, you want to keep with that.

then you've got to work out what you need to do to make it happen. How can you make sure that all the boxes of ticks, the finances can happen for you to keep this breed going? And if it's put your puppy prices up, then put them up. But as long as you can justify, because you're doing your health testing, because you're rearing it a certain way, because you're doing these things, there literally shouldn't be a problem with it. But I'm very keen for us not to...

chased to the bottom of the barrel, which is sometimes I think what happens because people don't want to take dog breeding seriously. And because they don't take it seriously, they could just not do the responsible stuff so they can sell the puppies cheap. So they're not seen as greedy. It's so bizarre.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (30:37)
Yeah, you're right. think that's a really strange psychological...

model that's at play actually because surely we should be proud about the amount of money that we invested in our puppies and proud that we spent hundreds and hundreds of pounds doing puppy culture and health testing and choosing the best studs possible and spending tons of money on all the fancy pedigree certificates and really doing fantastic puppy packs and all the things that you should find exciting if you're being a proactive dog owner that's bred and having a litter. I put your money where your mouth is enjoy it and do it properly but

I understand that that comes at cost quite literally. So I think it's a really important discussion actually puppy prices because unless you are running as a charity and you can give every puppy away then that's fantastic. But that puppy will have cost you a lot of money if you do it properly for sure.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (31:24)
Yeah, which brings me on to my final highlight, which was Di Stevens, Willem Bray Labrador's, who banged on about marketing nonstop. Hallelujah. Because she was the only one to be, she's as, I love Di, she's as honest as it is, she tells it how it is, and she does it the right way. She takes it seriously, she charges the right money because she breeds top tier.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (31:26)
WAH!

Hehehehe

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (31:50)
she's not gonna sacrifice anything for some money. She says, no, I do everything properly, but it all comes at a cost because that's where my benchmark is, that's where my standards are and I wouldn't want to breed any less than that. So I think, I hope people enjoyed listening to Di's episode because she comes from a very different angle and I think it probably is from her previous, I never realized that she had some previous marketing background, like a whole pre-dog career.

And so it's really good to see her apply all of that knowledge into dogs, which definitely doesn't happen enough, because people are scared of it, because then they're worried that they're seen as professional or greedy and all this kind of stuff. But to me, I've had it myself where people will go, you're very professional. And I know you've had this comment as well. you're very professional. So they think that you breed dogs commercially for money. No, no, no, I have. Yeah, I have.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (32:43)
It could be further from that. No, no, no, literally could be any

further. No, we've kept them all and you're having the only one that we're not keeping. Shock!

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (32:47)
Yeah, exactly.

So you're no, I have a whole other job where I have money. But what I explain to my people is that, these are my internal benchmarks of what I think all breeders should be doing. I'm not going to lower my benchmarks because I don't have to do these things because it's not expected. This is my bet. I think that's what I loved about to quote Adam. And I loved it when he said it. So he was Adam male.

the rising star winner and he said, who wants to be average? And I thought, yeah, why do you want to breed and be average? I don't want to do anything in life where I'm average. I'm not an average person myself. Definitely not size wise, that's for sure. Definitely not shoe size wise either. Definitely not vocally, I'm loud. So why would I breed average dogs? I wouldn't.

I'm never, that's just not me. I'm not average. So why am I happy to be average with dog breeding my dogs? Obviously I started showing, which takes you out of the average, but you can see how people show dogs and still breed average. And I was like, no, the whole experience that I want to give my puppy owners from beginning to end would not be average. And it isn't. And then that's good because going back to the awards, that gives me confidence that

because I'm not breeding average, I can charge this puppy price because nobody else is doing what I'm doing. And if you don't value that, then that's fine, go and buy someone, go and buy a puppy from someone else, that's fine. But if you do value that, then I'm the person that you need to buy a decent puppy from. And I think I've captured that really well. So yeah, to tie two loops into one, because I remember when Adam said that, like, who wants to be average? And I was like, yeah, no one.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (34:32)
Yeah, I think there's been quite a few great quotes through this ABA series, isn't there? And we've gone down so many rabbit holes, even in this chat today, but that's what's been so beautiful about the ABA interviews is that actually you hear people's story, you go down little tangents with them and actually uncover what they're about, what they've been up to and learn something from everyone that you listen to because that's what they've all done.

That's what we've even done. We've got take homes having listened and spoken to all these people. Like you said, Di, what she's doing is absolutely fantastic. Like her standards are so high and it was just absolutely fabulous listening to her explain why she won't compromise on her standards and why it's so important to be maintaining standards in a breed, maybe where other people are doing the absolute bare minimum. She doesn't want to be average and that's fabulous.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (35:20)
Yeah, she's definitely far from even her whole setup, her vision. Yeah, the quality of studs, how consistent is about, I think we recently had somebody trying to book in for ovulation testing and they basically counseled and said, I'm not going to bother testing because my studs only available on this day.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (35:39)
That is exactly what happened. Yes,

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (35:40)
I'm not quite sure what, I'm not quite sure what the stud service that

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (35:40)
correct.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (35:43)
is, where Dai is at the opposite end of the spectrum. She's like, no, again, she has the processes. She recommends to everybody, I strongly recommend that you progesterone ovulation test. These are the people that I recommend. Keep me updated with the results, the mating, and then we know exactly where the mating should be.

She even has backup if she's out the country, she still has somebody make sure that meetings happen. She has me on standby, should I need to be drafted in. She has everything so organized, good flow of processes. And then obviously off the back of that, she does all the paperwork. Even when you go and use a stud dog, it's all printed out, you get all copies of all the stud dogs paperwork all given to you. Then even she'll say,

When you have the female scanned, she tells everybody that they should be scanning the dog. When she's confirmed in PUP, well, she even says straight away, do you want me to put the breeding announcement on my website? Some people say yes, some people say no. She say once she's scanned in PUP, let me know our updates. She's constantly updating our website. And she has a website as well as her Facebook groups. And she has multiple Facebook groups as well, because she has a breeding one, she has a gun dog training one, and she has a owner's one.

Could the woman do anymore? I mean, you know, seriously. So yeah, you pay the premium, but the service that you get, you probably won't appreciate unless you was to go somewhere else and realize that you get none of that whatsoever.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (37:08)
Yeah, exactly. And it's just lovely to be able to recognise that she is going to these lengths and doing things so far beyond what most, if not the majority, of other studs are doing. Not even just in her breed, in dogs in general. yeah, round of applause.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (37:24)
Yeah. yeah, she's top. Yeah, she's as you say, it's all breeds, without a doubt, all breeds. If I saw more people doing what she does, the world, the dog breeding world would be a very much happier and safer place, that's for sure. So that kind of brings us on to...

You need to join the brew crew basically, I don't know. Because we want to work, don't we, Isabel, with people that want to aspire to those kinds of levels and those kinds of standards and that want to be able to have clear systems and processes that they can follow regardless of where they are in their breeding journey. Because I think what we've realised is when we've looked around is there are books out there, there are online courses you can take.

there are bits and bobs, but all they're doing is they're just taking you through in a chronological order how to fix the problems that you might be coming up against. And we feel that we've put models together that actually take you to a greater level of understanding. It's not just, this is a problem, fix it. It's how do we prevent the problem in the first place? And if we do all these preventative measures,

you'll have a more flowful, seamless, less problematic breeding journey and experience. And these are models that don't exist. They don't exist anywhere. No one has any breeding models, as far as I know, in existence.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (38:46)
No, because I think like you said most people view the process as a really chronological tick box exercise and that's the opposite to what we see it as. At the end of the day we're working with biology, living, breathing beings, part of our family, you know, they deserve to be respected. It can be a really difficult process and actually the more you take time to understand the nuances as to what can go wrong and mitigate the risks.

better. So yeah we've really taken some serious time to put together some models, some teachings, spotlight sessions to really drill down on these most imperative sections of breeding that nobody else is talking about. You know yes you can probably go and do a course and it will teach you what a natural mating should look like. How long is a dog's pregnancy?

What do you find out at an ultrasound scan? How to cut a puppy's cord during the birth? You know, you can find out these basic pieces of information, but nobody's actually teaching you on, actually, how to find a vet that isn't breeding biased, or how you should actually be...

avoiding certain situations with your female prior to breeding to reduce certain stress factors and things. You know, there's lots of additional pieces of information that are vital to your breeding success that you can't learn anywhere else. And we're proud to say you can inside the brookroo.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (40:05)
Yeah, you can and much, much, much, much more. Which brings us onto, obviously we've had for this entire series, we've had the pod fan 50 promo code running and it will be coming to an end. So you really need to get involved. If you don't want FOMO, you should go to [http://breedersbrew.com](http://breedersbrew.com "smartCard-inline")  click on the.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (40:09)
Yeah.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (40:32)
Brew Crew tab and register and stick in that promo code when it asks for it because we've got a spotlight session coming up, haven't we, next week. So if you sign up within the three days of this being published and the spotlight session, you can attend the spotlight session firsthand and enjoy the delights of what...

is about and I have for you, which is a big one. It's kind of what we've alluded to throughout this episode, which is about breeding, budgeting and finances. Because, yeah, there's a whole model that I'm not going to talk about here that people need to understand and appreciate, because it will change how you breed and why you do stuff once you understand the model and how it's going to impact you and your breeding experiences.

So we would love for you to be on that Spotlight session with us. So you need to go to the website, [http://breedersbrew.com](http://breedersbrew.com "smartCard-inline") , Hit Brew Crew, sign up, put in the pod fan 50 promo code, which means you get 50 % off your sign up. I don't know if we were saying that or not.

can't remember why. Yeah, so you need to put in the promo code so you can get a huge, huge beginning discount. That's for sure. See, obviously, we've got all the breeder briefs in there for you to have a listen to. There's all the previous spotlights and the wellness triad, the relationship roadmap, the stud options, we have a whole sheet for you to complete in regards to finding a quality stud dog and having

which obviously if you filled out on any of Dye's dogs, she would actually breeze it and tick all the boxes and it'd take you five minutes to complete. But unfortunately, not everybody offers that kind of stud service. So you need to find that out before you're in that situation. So we strongly recommend if you are a listener, that you should come and join us inside the Brew Crew and become a Brew Crew member because you get to talk to us direct. And obviously it means that we can actually help you.

Personally with your dogs and your experiences and what you're going through, we always have to talk quite generic to a degree on these podcasts because we don't know enough about you. So at least inside the Brew Crew we know more of you that we can help you even more.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (42:42)
Absolutely, because as we always say there's three things that matter the most when you're getting advice and that is breed background

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (42:47)
and bright.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (42:48)
There's three things that matter most when you are either getting advice or giving advice and that is the breed, the background and the brain. Because unless we understand those three key points, we don't know what advice to give you. We don't know what experience level you're at, what type of mindset you've got or what breed you've got. Whereas that's the benefit of being inside the Breed Crew is we get to know each other, you get personal, know, personal time with myself and Sara in our bridge.

in our bitch and brew catch up course where we can actually really get to the bottom of what you've got going on in your breeding journey. So whether you're just starting out for the first time or you're having your hundred and first litter, but actually you're thinking about importing semen for the first time or going down the route for frozen breeding. It doesn't actually matter where you are on that scale, but the point is that we can really come together and give you some really beneficial personal advice that will benefit you because every day is a school day when it comes to breeding.

and that's never something to be forgotten. So there is no specific experience level that you need to have to be inside the Brew Crew Mentorship Club. It's purely for anybody that just doesn't want to be average. If you want to come and get involved, do better, be better than average, and come and find a group of people that are all aspiring to do their best for their dog's sake, then you're in the right place because we sit and chat dogs every...

Every week we have a touch point with giving you some crazy crazy valuable advice or we're jumping on a call there's something going on every single week inside the brew crew just so that we can help you so that you can enjoy a better seamless stress-free breeding experience and really about

Finding your community as well, as we would say, can be really isolating when you're a dog owner and you maybe don't have friends in your breed or locally or maybe not at all. Maybe none of your friends have dogs or don't breed. So I think that's a really lovely aspect and something that I'm really, really enjoying even as sort of, you know, one of the leaders of the brookers. I've really enjoyed the fact that every week we're sitting down, we're chatting and coming together as like-minded individuals. It's a really lovely experience.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (44:51)
Even, yeah, since we've had the brew crew up and running, I actually set up my own bulldog owners sort of equivalent where it's mainly for my puppy owners, but also for anybody interested in a bulldog going forward. And we only have a call every two weeks and we have a Zoom call, we get on, everyone sees each other, we have a catch up. And the ideas that come out of that, I mean, I've owned a breed.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (44:51)
have.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (45:17)
virtually all my life, all but six years of my life, and there's still new information to be learned. Just having the power of other people's knowledge and experience is... you can't ever... because it's constantly changing, it can never really truly be captured. You can never capture it and go, I'm done with that, tick the box, let's put it to one side. It's constant, it's forced, you know, it just keeps going.

I quite like that because it means you're not average and actually means that you push yourself to the front of the queue. Like you're on the edge of what's coming next, which I quite like because it gives you longer. You can see it come in so you can have longer time to react and to plan and to, it becomes less traumatic and less of a drama because you just open to that vision all the way around. yeah, is, I think the brew crew is amazing anyway.

I've been in other mentor groups myself. So I think this is also an interesting perspective to come from. Because if you've never really, if you you did school, you left school, and then you've never been in any kind of mentoring coaching program, it seems quite alien. And then it seems even more alien to be that is dog related, because it seems so far apart from anything that seems professional, or commercial or, you know, that

that there's a really obvious driver behind it. So I think I don't know whether sometimes that's the element that holds people back, but just being around people that are on the same mindset of expectation, I think is just a great feeling because you only push, you only spiral upwards in my opinion, it never goes downwards. And so yeah, if there's anyone that's ever been in a recognised mentoring.

program then you know the benefits of it and you can equally benefit from the brokerage because we do exactly the same stuff there. It's just as good. It's just the settings much more informal and much more friendly.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (47:11)
Of course, we're dog owners at the end of the day, we're dog people, not tech gurus or anything else, but exactly that and I think you touched on it there, Sara. What's the saying? You're the average of your five closest

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (47:13)
Yeah.

five people that you're around, really, yeah, the closest to you.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (47:25)
Yeah,

so when that comes to breeding, you know, you have got to think carefully about who you're getting advice from and things like that. And in the brew crew, mean, you can tick off all those five nearest points of people that are all dead open minded, really proactive, and everyone is lifting each other up. I just think that's quite rare in this day and age as well to find a community where everyone wants everybody else to benefit and do better. And I just, it's very wholesome. I'm really enjoying it. And I don't know if we've ever actually explained the...

Have we ever actually explained what the brew crew actually includes, Sara?

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (48:00)
I don't know, it's fair.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (48:02)
So for those of you that maybe haven't heard about the Brew Crew, we might have jumped in a little bit too soon there. It's probably worth us pointing out what actually happens inside our virtual clubhouse, isn't it, Sara? So essentially it's an online platform for people to get together.

inside our monthly membership. There's no minimum commitment. can join, stay for the duration of your breeding journey. Obviously the longer you stay, the more value you'll get. Every month we sit down and we give a spotlight session, which is a mini masterclass that Sarah and I put together on one specific, very, very important part of dog breeding. So it will be relevant to you regardless of what experience level you're at, regardless of what breed you've got or what type of mindset you've got.

We design these spotlight sessions very, very carefully so that you walk away from the session and not only having learned something with a tangible outcome. So there'll be an activity afterwards. You go away, you apply it to your dog, your breeding and really go in action. The points that we've talked through. then obviously have calls as well. So you can actually jump on. We'll jump on a video call, have a chat, really discuss what's going on. Any questions you've got, have them every month as well.

And we also have behind the scenes podcast episodes that are even longer, even juicier and even more full of valuable information than our Breeders Brew podcast is. Did you even think that could exist? Because it does. They're called Breeder Briefs and they are inside the Brew Crew membership. So they are opportunities for you to listen to us truly deep dive on really, really specific, tiny details of the breeding journey so that you can learn as much as possible in a lovely

audio

digest which is always a nice way to learn isn't it so between all of those things the activities the bitch and brew course that we host there's so much opportunity for you to get involved learn loads and actually put some things into action reflect on your own breeding plans and grow really

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (49:58)
Yeah, sounds awesome. I wish I signed up. I am. Yeah, I mean, we've got big plans. This is the beginning, basically. So it's a journey that Isabel and I are keen to keep on developing and keep on improving. And hopefully we get to work with some amazing dog owners along the way.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (50:05)
That's a good one.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (50:24)
and we get to see the quality puppies and the output that they achieve from that and beyond. And so, yeah, there is no, I guess as passionate as Steve is about his dogs, we are about the brew crew, isn't it? I think that would be fair enough to say. So yeah, like we're all for the more the merrier. We see lots of people with lots of challenges and the brew crew generally got the answer.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (50:38)
Yeah

Absolutely.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (50:51)
So yeah, like definitely, so there's two things you need to do from this podcast. It is that you need to instantly go to [http://breedersbrew.com](http://breedersbrew.com "smartCard-inline") , click on the Brew Crew and sign up with your promo code of podfan50 and get involved straight away. If you do that super, super fast, you'll be on the next Spotlight session, which is a biggie about like, how do you price your puppies, the finances and the budgeting behind breeding?

And you need to, if you've already had a litter, then you need to consider applying for the ABA 2025, the annual Breeder Awards 2025. Yeah, apply. There will be a link on the website. Basically, if you go to Breeders Brew, there should somewhere be on their ABAs and you can apply. It'd just be a Google form for now. Maybe a few little options that you can upload some information. So we've got some basic details and then we'll take it from there going forward.

So I strongly recommend that you do both of those during this week as soon as possible and have a sense of satisfaction that you've pushed your development and your exposure for your dogs forward.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (51:55)
Absolutely.

Yeah, 100%. And what do we always say? There's always something for everyone with us that we really do try and put out as much valuable content as possible. So don't worry if you're not actually breeding yet and you haven't bred your first litter and you're just researching and this is all just for future reference because you'll be pleased to know we've got a new podcast series coming very soon, haven't we, Sarah?

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (52:18)
We have indeed, Isabel. Are we taking any time off, Isabel?

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (52:23)
I think I deserve a holiday, don't you?

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (52:25)
Yeah, I think we do. I think we've pushed on through. So we're going to have a little hiatus and have a little bit of time off. And then we're going to come, as we always do at the end of every series, to be fair, this isn't anything new. And then the next series, which will be our fourth series, is going to be Breeding Fundamentals.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (52:45)
Yes, I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to going back to some really nitty gritty deep, deep wormholes of conversations where we start to uncover all the dark dingy corners of dog breeding that people maybe gloss over or don't even think to check in. So going back to a bit of an old style podcast series bars, isn't it?

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (52:45)
Doesn't that sound interesting?

Yeah, we've tried all the different formats, haven't we? So it'd be awesome for any of you to leave us a review, obviously a five star review, but leave us a review as to what type of format you like. Do you like the Q &A's? Do you like the deep dives? Do you like the interview styles? Like tell us, because obviously we're gonna keep rolling forward with this and we like to spice things up as you do. But we ultimately we wanna...

talk to you and tell you stuff that you want to listen to and that's most productive and efficient for you, that you learn the most. So it'd be awesome if you left us a review and you told us in the review, whether that be on your podcast streaming platform, whether that be through our website, any way that you want to leave a review, whether you even want to email us, you can even email us at podcast at [http://breedersbrew.com](http://breedersbrew.com "smartCard-inline") .

and tell us, we'll be open to that as well. So, and even if you're on the email list, reply to one of our emails and tell us as well. We're open to it all. But yeah, so the next series, we're gonna have some time off and then we're gonna pop up with our fourth series, which will be Breeding Fundamentals. Again, very much deep dive. Let's talk about the stuff that never gets talked about.

the real life situations of dog breeding, not the glamorized stuff, not the stuff that's on Facebook, the real life nitty gritty, to make sure that your breeding journey is as straightforward and as efficient as it and as successful as it should be.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (54:38)
Absolutely. I can't wait, although I'm very excited for a little holiday, I have to say.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (54:43)
Yeah, let's see what happens in the interim. But yeah, that's it. I think we should sign off, Isabel. I feel like we've bored everybody to tears. don't miss us too much. We're await your emails, we're await your reviews and your feedback and your applications. so, well, you won't miss us, to be fair. If you join Brew Crew, you won't miss us. So maybe, so maybe.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (54:49)
course we have that's what we like to do ⁓

We're not yet. There's no such thing as a holiday

on the brew crew. Don't worry. We'll still be in there. It's just that we're just going to have a mini holiday from the podcast.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (55:10)
Yeah, so if you're to get FOMO you need to come and join the Breed Crew. That's my parting words.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (55:15)
Absolutely, we hope see you inside the brew crew. We've got a really exciting spotlight session coming this week. We look forward to seeing you all soon in our next podcast series as well. So take care over and out. Enjoy the sunshine wherever you are in the world today. And we look forward to catching up with you guys all soon. Take Over and out.

Sara (Canine Family Planner) (55:32)
It's a goodbye from me.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (55:33)
And a goodbye from me.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (55:34)
if you've resonated with this episode, you're already showing the mindset that matters the most. But great breeding isn't just about attitude, it's about understanding your breed, your specific circumstances, and where you are in the journey.

Sara - Canine Family Planner™ (55:46)
That's where a Brew Crew mentorship comes in. No one size fits all advice, just personal, practical support shaped around you. Whether you're planning your first litter or refining your approach, we'll walk you through every step of the way.

Isobel Canine Nutrition Coach (56:00)
So come on and join us at [http://breedersbrew.com](http://breedersbrew.com "smartCard-inline")  for tailored learning and a community that's raising the bar one thoughtful, well-prepared litter at a time. Can't wait to see you there.