Crufts Confessions: What the Dog World Is Really Talking About

What is Crufts really like when you step away from the show ring? In this bonus episode, Sara and Isobel discuss all-things-Crufts after a whirlwind few days. From the glitz of the Pawscars awards to wandering through Discover Dogs and the endless trade stands, we share the moments that made us stop and think.

We talk about ethical breeding, health testing, how advice around dogs is changing, and why some breeds are worried about their future.

If you couldn’t attend Crufts this year, consider this your chance to ride home with us and hear what the dog world is really talking about. 

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Transcript

Sara (00:00)
So, should we recap on what we've been up to?

at this time yesterday we were in a glad rags weren't we

Isobel (00:12)
that have travelled a very long way with us just for this very special evening with petplan

Sara (00:19)
We were invited as breeding educators along to the Pawscars

Awards ceremony. So this is a charity-based funded event.

formed by Gavin Robinson who is a Crufts Best in Show winner and also a Westminster Best in Show winner. His dogs are not him necessarily but his dogs have been. So he's very highly regarded within the show community, internationally, across the world, across the Was it 11 years ago? It was their 11th anniversary. years ago he founded the Peek-A-Boo charity. ⁓

Isobel (01:04)
Was it Pawscars start 11 years ago?

Sara (01:06)
Well I think they were in tandem, And he pretty much said it was peekaboo and then think literally like the crufts afterwards, that's how Pawcars started. To attract the people and the attention no doubt. They did say how much they made, didn't they? Or was that just on the raffle?

Isobel (01:28)
Well, the raffle earned this, I don't know which number was what to be fair.

Sara (01:35)
very much an award ceremony to recognise and acknowledge and reward the activities that happen within the show community. So there's various awards throughout the evening covering anything from junior handlers to special beginners, people new into a breed, to trade stands, to breeders, to the dogs of each group that we covered in the previous podcast. What else was there?

Hall of Fame, yes. The

Club,

newly the 100 Club as well. yeah, a lot of activity. There was over 400 people at the event, I think said. Everyone suited and booted, tapped in. Dressed to nine sequins, all the things.

very entertaining evening and emotional I would have said at some point. Some of the charities that were talked about there as well not just dog related charities

Isobel (02:39)
It was...

risk in the young It's a fantastic charity that offers support to families that are affected by young cardiac arrest.

Sara (02:55)
interested. So they invest money into sports groups so rugby teams, football teams, but the kids are actually screened to alleviate, recognise, and they've had positive results, hadn't they? Yes. So they've picked up children on screening with cardiac issues that have been dealt with before they've caused any significant...

Isobel (03:17)
There was one specific example given of one of the charitable donors to cries. He had raised £800 through a cake sale that funded an entire testing day at his local rugby club. And I believe it was 100 people he went through the testing and three children were picked up with severe heart abnormalities that required

what he said sounded like a pacemaker, a full treatment and testing for lifetime. So had those three children not had the luck or the access to that testing, they could have faced a completely different outcome. So it's phenomenal that charitable donations potentially save those children's lives.

Sara (04:00)
to show how health screening is so important here. We don't do it enough, we don't do it enough in dogs. There are, and obviously because there's a monetary impact of screening your dogs, screening humans, but it's...

Isobel (04:05)
did it.

Sara (04:16)
applying the right health ingredients in the right settings for the right reasons, isn't there? The whole charity was mentioned because there was somebody there that was a show person where she had lost her son. He had been showing dogs and he was 37? and they just got the call to say that he had died of cardiac issues and He children as well, so just literally...

and her right upside down so she could even talk on stage because they received a £3,000 donation from the Peek-a-Boo charity. So just amazing work happening in a community of people that we got to witness.

Isobel (04:56)
lovely to part of a community of people doing so much good, not just for dogs but the wider community and everyone in that community. was a real coming together community spirit which I feel sometimes can be so easily lost and it was a lovely reminder, reminder of faith in humanity.

Sara (05:12)
Yeah, which is very much what Frank Kane, very much the voice of Crufts If you listen to Crufts you'll hear Frank Kane commentating and his voice is so distinct. It seems weird to hear him talk in person because to put a face and a body to the voice seems a little bit crazy. He was actually awarded the Hall of Fame award and he...

know that he was going to get awarded that basically on the night so it's very much a surprise to him obviously very much deserved but he gave a fabulous speech in regards to preservation and how as a dog community we need to stick together because there are anti-pedigree lobbies out there particularly but also it's creep isn't it if there's a turn of tides in

saying that certain dogs are no longer suitable or required, how do know that's going to creep to all types of dogs? it's kind of that even if you don't have a pedigree dog, it's still something that you should be concerned about because it could ultimately end up impacting you at some point. So he gave a really good speech didn't he?

Isobel (06:34)
biggest point was the fact that we all need to really work together for the future of our breeds and that everyone's breeds are at risk.

and that's because of external pressures, internal pressures, and it's about doing everything we can so that we can enjoy what we've got for many years to come. And that, in the same breath, requires uptake of health testing. Because if we're not doing our health testing, we're not breeding from the healthiest stock, they might well be beautiful, but that's not preserving the longevity of the breed. That's doing nothing to ⁓ appease the

anti-pedigree lobbies either, the best thing we can do is take up arms and say, well no, we are doing our best and we are doing all the health testing and the breeds are getting healthier and they are living long healthy lives. And it was really lovely. Frank Kane summed it up a million times better than what I'd done there, his quote in particular that I thought was lovely, which was along the lines of, we all want beautiful dogs.

We all appreciate a beautiful dog but without health there's nothing It was definitely a sentiment that we took home with us that actually maybe people aren't doing unhealth testing.

Sara (07:59)
I quite liked when he he talked about when he first went to his first crafts, which by the sounds of it was a school trip where his parents just put him in the care of other people and I said please bring him back safely and off he went and he said he was amazed by it and he said the magic that he felt then he still feels at every craft that yeah there is now.

Isobel (08:22)
60 years. so the magic still hasn't worn off after 60 whole years.

Sara (08:26)
And on the way up we said that for some people this is Christmas, this is their Christmas, this is their celebration, this is the thing that they count down to, they find a bit like the advent, the 12 days of Christmas. We can't do another 12 days of Christmas. That'd be quite hard work. But it's one of the most important.

events in their diary and for somebody that's been going for so many years and they still get the same sense of excitement and to degree for him it's work, he's commentating, he's in work mode and he still loves every minute of it so hopefully we have him for many more years to come yet because he's got very nice soothing.

Isobel (09:06)
or treasure his voice should be trademarked or whatever else

Sara (09:10)
Beautiful.

We'll get that AI'd up and gilipated won't we? And I thought there was a guy that had a really interesting, well a very breeding relevant story. So was it Robert Teebert? think he was called.

that affects but

Isobel (09:31)
Didn't he? He a few of them over. Top dog of the year.

Sara (09:35)
top all breeds so there's internal competitions and basically when you win a group level, best in show level, you accrue points and as we know points make prizes and they called him up to collect his award and he seemed a really humble guy just really genuine down to earth just couldn't believe he won the award and then actually called onto the stage all the other category winners so all the other utility, hound, and working

and he acknowledged all of them and he remembered the name of all of their dogs, all of his competition.

Isobel (10:10)
It was very impressive.

Sara (10:13)
knew all the dogs. He's been around the ring. They were just there to show the dogs off to as best as possible. So he actually, his dog actually won top all breeds. But then he actually won an award as top exhibitor. And they just told some really nice stories of his manner around the big sportsmanship. And they told a story of that he actually

We withdrew his top winning dog from a competition because somebody that had another dog bred by him was entered and he needed one more CC to champ up so he didn't want to block that dog, So he withdrew his dog and the other dog was made up a champion. And he'd already got out of bed at 3 o'clock in the morning, apparently lives in Wales, driven all the way to Birmingham.

to go, do you know what, I'm not gonna show my dog, I might be on my own agenda, I might be trying to get this top all breeds award, but for these people that have reared this dog well, and you know, are good owners, it decided he would withdraw for the right thing for them, so they would champ up their dog, because you can get blocker dogs basically, especially if you've got a dog so prolific, that you just can't get past them, even though you've got a good dog, if that dog's,

on a momentum, all the stars have aligned, they've got their lucky charms on and you just can't get past them. So it's a really honourable thing to do, to withdraw his dog so that dog can get the recognition that they also deserve. So I tell you now, not many people would do that at all. Because they'd be like, I got up this morning as well, I paid my money, I'm here at the show, my dog's in show condition, why would I then withdraw it for somebody else's benefit? But that's what he did because he felt that was the right thing.

do for the owners and the dog. So yeah, pretty remarkable guy, wasn't he? So it's not all bitchiness and backstabbing. Some people think that showing is obviously it's competition and how some people react to competition is very much different to others and that's no different to any sport, any activity. You'll find all people how they manage stress and emotion.

Isobel (12:10)
was thinking that.

Sara (12:26)
how that's displayed in their hobby can vary. But it the event was to highlight the profile of good people doing good things with good dogs.

And then what do we do today after that tiring evening? Out.

Isobel (12:41)
Oh after that very tiring evening out

We hung up our glad rags, went to bed, woke up at the crack of dawn this morning and marched the march Crufts

Sara (12:55)
on

Well, I think what we were nicely pleased about and impressed about is that sometimes there's this breeding stigma and anti-breeding slight undertone of the breeding exists, which obviously it does, otherwise they wouldn't have their dogs. So we had some conversations with various different trade stands, we? We went to the Discover Dogs section as well, where you get to meet all the different

and their owners and we were pleasantly surprised about the positivity around educating people to do things right. very much. And the support that can be offered to people if they're willing to reach out and take it.

Isobel (13:43)
Yeah, it's about how to look in the right place. What was very clear is you just need to know where to look to find it. There are these people out there that are incredibly passionate about their breed that aren't closing off access to their stud dogs or aren't closing off access to brilliant puppies that they're willing to let other people go out and enjoy. it was lovely to see that in motion today on such a scale.

Sara (14:12)
Yeah, I think one of the big takeaways from the Discover Dogs section is, most breeds have a breed club or a breed council. And I think they should be your first port of call to find out more about your breed, whether that...

be to find out where local shows are, to find out whether there's any local breed clubs to you, to find out the people that already have the breeds, get their advice and knowledge, but also to find out about the health testing expectations there are of your breed. Looking for puppies, sometimes I have these active puppy wait lists as well that you can join.

and they're very much encouraging people to do things the right way. Even how to find the puppy, what questions you should be asking, what's the standard expectations or protocols of somebody, ethical the way they view their puppies, so you know whether things seem right or wrong. And all of these breeds seem to have these clubs where you can gain this information.

So I think it's definitely worth just searching or Googling the breed that you're interested in and literally just put at the end, breed club or breed council and see what comes up because I'm sure they have websites that will give you more information.

Isobel (15:33)
typically they'll have at least a health coordinator listed, even if there isn't a lot of information online about what health testing you may need to do or the health of the breed, that's exactly why a health coordinator exists. They are somebody that has volunteered to fill that role to bridge the gap between owners, potential puppy owners, breeders.

and enthusiasts to make sure that health information is correctly passed around in that circle. So they are a contact  to use.

Sara (16:08)
Yeah, it's not just for show people, this is anyone interested in the breed. And I think it's just a nice way, even if you have a breed that you're interested in, you're not interested in showing, I think it's still worth joining breed clubs because they have certain publications, some of them have yearbooks once a year or magazines or newsletters. And I think just to be soaking up information that way.

is a nice way to keep current with the status of your breed and the pressures they may or may not be under or the changes or the expectations. it's a nice way to get, information from the source. as purest as form as you can get without it being diluted down on the internet, put through chatGTP or any AI or, you know, hearing it third hand or I just think it's quite nice to hear it to the people that are accountable.

the breeds future direction trying to help other people be accountable for future generations of the breed in the right way. So we definitely recommend if you do fancy going to Crufts make sure you go to the discover dog section and find some breeds and have some conversations. they have banners up for the health testing they gave us all leaflets, all the stickers, all sorts.

Isobel (17:28)
It's a lovely way of meeting people in your breed as well, like obviously a lot of you listening, you're breeding enthusiastically, you're embarking on breeding your dog or thinking about breeding your dog. The more people you can have conversations with and just take tidbits of information, gold nuggets away from, have a chat, stop and speak to people on your stand. You may not know them, don't be intimidated by them because essentially they were where you were once upon a time. Everyone started somewhere.

and they might well be able to point you in direction of a fantastic Stud dog or a more experienced breeder in your area or a local club in your area and it can be such a opportunity not necessarily to network but just to find out a bit more really. Every day is a school day.

Sara (18:21)
For sure, I know that the Bulldog Magazine that goes out twie a year, actually have a stud register in the back of their magazine. So if you didn't know where to find a stud that would be a great place to get an idea of names, kennels, owners, and go from there. So there might be other breeds that have that same, you don't have to rely on an online platform being boosted every week or whatever. And they're just people just a bit more nearer the source.

What else did we learn from Crufts?

Isobel (19:04)
There definetely seemed to be a bit of a consensus that a lot of breeds were being threatened is the wrong word. I want to say about sort of colours and lack of information, education, but there was a growing concern around discover dogs in certain breeds that numbers of carefully bred puppies was declining even if registrations were up. I think a lot of the

stands at the discover dogs were echoing the same message which is we don't have enough quality puppies being bred. There might be high volume of puppies but actually more than ever it seems to be puppies are being bred without care and attention. Which without people breeding well and breeding safely what's going to happen to our breed? So it was this interesting narrative where yes it's obviously in a negative light.

We've got more puppies than ever that have been bred not to breed standard by people that are maybe just breeding with the wrong motives, no understanding of a breed standard, maybe not looking at pedigrees, maybe not doing their health testing, breeding non-recognised colours or whatever the thing might be.

The flip side of that and a more positive way of looking at it is, we need more ethical breeders more than ever. Because puppy owners are becoming more aware that health testing is important. Puppy owners are going out of their way now to try and contact breed clubs or to try and find out in the kennel club, right, well what breed specific health test should my potential breeder have done? And they're now going out of their way to seek breeders that are doing the right things.

and if there aren't enough of them doing it, we need people filling that gap. So it's a good time to be taking that leap as an ethical breeder and doing your extra bits and pieces.

Sara (21:03)
Yeah, getting your paperwork in alignment And I think the expectation years ago it used to be there was just a tick list of How to buy a decent puppy or not like what questions you should ask I think that list is getting longer and longer and longer because the expectations of puppy owners are more because they're aware more now of health testing temperaments ongoing welfare

Isobel (21:32)
think there's more blurred lines as well, where that tick list used to be really black and white of if your puppy is sold less than eight weeks of age, they're a bad breeder. If they do this, they're a bad breeder. If they do that, they're a bad breeder. Whereas now, I don't know if it's the rise of social media and the fact that breeders can...

look like the puppies were in really lovely clean conditions on all their Instagram and you're reading all of that going that's a green tick box because the puppies are in a good environment and we've seen the puppies with children which is another green tick box because social media is giving that potential false sense of security I wonder if the list is getting longer

but more ambiguous at the same time because it used to be if the puppies were going unvaccinated that was a bad breeder whereas now actually no the

World Small Animal Veterinary Association are releasing more more information by the year that actually no, maybe puppies shouldn't be being vaccinated before the eight weeks of age and they should be leaving without their vaccinations if we want them to have longer term immunity. it's interesting how some of these tick boxes before due to modern day science and the more information that we're getting

I can now understand that it could be more confusing than ever for a puppy buyer because we were told actually no, they should be vaccinated and now we're saying actually no, puppies should be unvaccinated and I think The longer this list gets, more confusion there is for puppy buyers I suppose.

Sara (22:59)
procurity because as you say and stuff has changed over time which it was never more proved than us walking into the venue when we saw

Sara Lamont AI (23:10)
new marketing campaign advert.

Sara (23:12)
there's more one way to crack a nut yes which we took our attention straight away so what's this what's happening and it literally said on the advertisement about veterinary

Isobel (23:21)
So I

Sara (23:27)
practices have changed over time and it was all about there's been a change that you shouldn't necessarily be jumping straight to castration that nowadays you can chemically castrate your dog and there are instances that this may be way more beneficial than just assuming that you need to castrate your male as a matter of procedure and a matter of this is what we do. So it's interesting to see that advert because that's not really show relevant and in fact you can't show.

castrated male or you can but you'd have to have a letter to go with it and you have to take that letter to every time you're entered in a show and you have to show the judge and it just becomes all quite a big faff because to explain why the dog's been neutered but chemical castration is a way that the dog is still entire but equally becomes impotent so it can't sire puppies and so it's something that show people maybe

been aware of but obviously Crufts is very much to provide a platform for pet owners so it's interesting they decided to put this advert out to people so it's interesting how they're saying actually this might be applicable to you as a dog owner not necessarily showing but as a dog owner and there are alternatives now

isn't a black or white as you said, there are alternatives and so we need to educate you on the alternatives to give you more choice and selection as to whether you should be taking that as an option or not. So it just echoes that it just goes to show the rate of the level of healthcare that dogs have now is phenomenal. You know it's human MRI scans, know it's human.

level care that they're having and obviously there comes a financial price with that but also it gives you more options which is amazing because it no longer is a this or this kind of decision which means typically you go to the vet you've got opportunity to have a tiered treatment plan and do something that's specific and beneficial to your dog and you and their lifestyle rather than just historically going on what's been available.

Isobel (25:40)
goes for either puppy buyers or breeding is not black and white. There isn't one right decision for everyone. There's not one right path to follow when breeding. It is about having those discussions, weighing up what's right for your dog, your lifestyle, your breed, your background, The 3B lens, if you've heard us talk about that before, it's really important to consider.

the landscape as a whole, like what's the most modern science? What have we got available to us? What are the options? And breeding is this very fine art and fine balance of just constantly trying to do your best for the dog that's in front of you.

Sara (26:18)
accepting that it's going to change.

Isobel (26:20)
had very interesting conversation with someone about that today actually, Sara So I popped over to one of the breed stands in Discover Dogs and got chatting to

a very welcoming heritage preservation breeder. Been in the breed, I'm sure she said over 30 years, don't quote me. got chatting, particularly around the sort of discussion of what are your top tips for a new breeder coming into the breed? What's ethical to you? How would a puppy own a fine, ethical breed, et cetera, et cetera? Obviously we took a diversion as we do and went full circle to ovulation timing.

Don't ask me how we got there, but we did. And she was proudly telling me that she covered her girl on her last season on day 22, which for this specific breed was quite unusual. And I said, Oh, brilliant. You're obviously for progesterone testing, which surprised me because of the fact that she was such an legacy breeder and had been in the breed for such a long time. And I must say in a breed that typically attracted people.

a long time ago, I suppose not one of the breeds that naturally attracts a huge amount of popularity in youngsters So I naturally assumed she may have a bit more of fixed mindset. So she was saying, yeah, yeah, I test. So was really lucky I caught her. If I hadn't been testing, wouldn't have got a breeding on day 22. And I said, what exact testing is it you do?

She went on to tell me she was using a human ovulation pad. I don't quite know. She started describing it as if it was ferning that she looked at but then she then mentioned that she was using a human type of pad and I thought you are quite lucky in my opinion that you caught her on day 22 having done that but...

And I said oh why don't you progesterone test out of interest? I haven't ever needed to. Which I just thought was interesting because she's found something that's worked I mean you caught a girl on day 22 which she had about to hold her bottle waiting that long to not have gone for a breeding But she was using a combination of methods that other people would typically write off.

Part of me thinks, was it the fact that she's been breeding for 30 years that it meant she was able to really watch her girl's behaviour? She had entire males in the house. Was there more to it that she was judging that bitch's behaviour and could identify ovulation Was it more so that than luck on the draw

Sara (28:38)
She's collected data over the years this year, like she says.

never failed her so I'm sure if she started to see a decline in what she was doing or know her success rate then she would have to readdress what she was doing but she has her ways and I'm sure should that deviate from what it's been doing she would then have to go back to the drawing board and decide whether she carries on doing what she does or not.

Isobel (29:04)
Well,

it was one of those I think she alluded to the fact she had a couple of misses and the fact she just recently bred a girl and it was anyone's guess as to whether she was or wasn't pregnant and she was sort saying about these type of little pads that she gets are for humans and I was thinking huh, this is for humans I'm not sure it's gonna have the same method of science behind it for dogs and I'm not sure she could really remember exactly what brand it was so couldn't really get to the bottom of what it was she was using but

was interesting that she said she hasn't changed that method in 30 years. I thought there's not many things in life that we could still be doing now that we did 30 years ago. mean, not many people having the same thing for breakfast they were having 30 years ago because chances are that cereal doesn't exist anymore, you know? you have to roll with the punches and evolve over time, I think when you're trying to breed to a breed standard,

so much of what you're doing is fixed for such a long period of time, I think you forget that actually your methods around that probably should change.

Sara (30:01)
technology keeps improving doesn't it so even to mobile phones have got smaller quicker smarter faster cars are now more efficient than they've ever been before everything I guess once you learn to drive you don't keep driving the same car that you past your test in or that your first car that has a shelf life and then you move on to the next one by moving on to the next one

you're keeping current with the most relevant technology. And I thought it was interesting. We spoke to a guy on a pet treat stand and he talked about that the attitude towards raw hide chews is very negative and how he had to stop selling it. He mentioned that, it's not as chemically treated who knows, the treats that he may have been.

providing might not have been as chemically treated and cleaned but who knows but obviously once there's a perception around a product people are gonna believe that that to be true and so he said ⁓ because of that I've had to now think of what other treats I could be offering people and so interestingly he'd come up with these collagen sticks

So we had a conversation about, how is this different to hide? Well, it's kind of not. Like we've processed it, it's processed differently. And so it's not a raw hide. Because I said about, especially my breed brachycephalic breed if you were to give them raw hide, it comes really slimy and just elongated and basically it's a choking hazard. So it's like, well, this is processed slightly differently now that that wouldn't happen. It still has the benefits.

And it was just interesting to rebrand because now it's a collagen stick rather than a raw hide chew even though technically it's probably the same kind of product just packaged up a different way.

Isobel (31:57)
it's the same product that has been processed, it's gone through an extra round of processing because it's gone from rawhide to broken down into a building block, collagen, and then it's been mished with other things, moulded into a shape.

through some sort of heating process to then make it a stick and it looks better. It didn't look like rawhide, it looked like a stick of collagen looked a little bit like yak chews and other things but it just goes to show you sort of lift behind that curtain. Collagen sticks sound amazing, we all know how good collagen is for us and especially dogs and we know that dogs

should be consuming bone and collagen and joints and tendons, which are high in collagen. Therefore we know that collagen in theory should form a significant part of our dog's diet. It would be easy to think that was a great chew But when we had a chat with him, he was very willing to tell us it was basically rawhide, which was just really interesting. ⁓

Sara (32:56)
I

still want some was interested, give one to my Labrador so she's my little taster dog. So I was like, let's actually see how different they are or not. So basically it's been through more processing to make it more appealing to an animal owner given the change of perspective that's now deemed for the product that you were selling.

Isobel (33:19)
I will add in, that he was adamant that his specific rawhide originally hadn't been through the typical chemical processing to make it the white rawhide that we typically think of. So, he's saying that

the raw material to which he was using originally was superior which he's then breaking down to make these collagen sticks, so it be it.

Sara (33:40)
marketable basically. I mean he's done the right thing he's changed he's changed what he offers his customers.

Isobel (33:49)
make it safer,

Sara (33:50)
Yeah, to meet the new requirements and expectations of what these people want, which is the right thing to do, isn't it? As a supplier, that's what he should be doing. But you say if you lift the cover a little bit, is the product ultimately still the same? I think actually it's a safer product because it's been broken down where for some breeds it was never a safe product, regardless of the actual contents and the item itself. How it's been processed for some breeds now makes it safer, but he's still underlying.

potentially the same product.

Isobel (34:24)
But nonetheless, it was a very interesting conversation because we were seeing a small business face public perception issues and so they were just flogging a dead horse, it's a horrible terminology, or turning a blind eye going no I'm going to carry on doing something the way I've always done it, they've looked at the situation, they've gone back to the drawing board and they've tried to improve on what they're doing for the benefit of the dogs.

Sara (34:49)
Which is nice to hear. and that's what everybody should be doing. of whether you're selling dog chews, offering a service, someone has a puppy, offering a stud service, all of that continually. You kind of want to be the person that makes the change, not that the change is forced on you, because it always feels more comfortable if you're proactively involved in making the change.

Isobel (34:57)
breeding

Funny you should say that, because I think a lot of people are worried about making improvements and change, because at what point do they have to become professional looking.

there seems to be this issue with seeming professional around dog services. our last lovely bitch owner that came to us for breeding, were doing all the paperwork. was just walking her through a little pregnancy guide that I give to everyone. A breakdown week by week of what to expect. Here's what you do when, obviously. Which podcast to listen to, which week. Here's your critical care sheet. You know, if you haven't got it, get it from the website.

everything like that and her words were, wow, this is so professional and a while ago, I'm sure that would have hit me different and I would have been thinking, whereas now I think, thanks, that's really kind. I said, I'm not doing this to be professional, I'm doing this because I care. And for me, it's got nothing to do with being professional. I want you to have all the information you need so that your girl is in the best condition through.

and has the best time through pregnancy and you avoid every pitfall before it could ever occur so you have no dramas and you and your girl have a beautiful journey. She went no I can really tell and if she'd left it just wow this is really professional

I'm sure for a lot of people that would have been uncomfortable to sit with, but because I sort of acknowledged it, her next sentence was, it's so lovely to see how much you care about somebody else's dog. I really appreciate this, thank you. But it's funny that the word professional when it's left to sit, for a lot of people that can feel really uncomfortable, because we're talking about dogs.

Sara (36:57)
apply to something that they're passionate about possibly because it's hobby driven initially but just because you have high standards and benchmarks it automatically makes you professional and that's not your motive because professional if you become a professional athlete yeah that means you're getting paid to do that job that so everyone knows that once you go from being it's hobby it's fun to professional it becomes money rather than quality why isn't it about the quality

of what you're doing, not the monetary value of the actions that you might be doing. So I think just the word professional just has a negative connotation applied to it within the breeding world because it assumes that it then becomes money. When it isn't, it just means the standards that you're functioning at are high.

Isobel (37:49)
And I think, like you said, that's lovely that your standards are high. I mean, what does a professional athlete do? They commit their life, they commit their free time, they commit their passion, they make dedicated choices, they compromise regularly on things just to ensure that they are reaching the highest levels. it's sheer might and determination, which is an incredible thing to possess.

I just think it's amazing that someone does that when they're professional, but like you said, it's that flip side of the coin that makes people feel uncomfortable and it's such a shame because...

Sara (38:25)
only benefits everybody.

Isobel (38:27)
Yeah,

maybe everyone's standards are too low. You this lady had seen, she'd bred before. She's been breeding decades this isn't her first mating that she's come and gone, wow, this is a stud service.

As far as I was concerned, I'm helping somebody bring a litter into the world. I want them to do the best job that they possibly can and then feel supported. So I'm going to give them all of this. And it surprised me that it surprised them so much that I was doing that as part of the service. yeah, But then again, walking around Crufts Today, every single stand there was professional. Every small business was professional. They had their little stands, they their freebies, they their flyers. And at no point is that seen as a negative thing.

Oh wow, look how professional this brand is doing and it's lovely to see the progression. I remember years ago, I went to the Riaflex Stand, Joint Supplement Stand and they were clearly quite new to the game. Don't know how many exhibitions they'd been to or trade stands they'd run before. But it was bare bones. They had what they needed on it and that was it. there was...

paper forms on the table and their mailing list and stuff like that. And I remember having conversation with them and suggesting some marketing, you know, bits and pieces they could have done.

I certainly can't take credit for that in the slightest But saw this down today and completely different, massive, doing really well, great big banner, looked amazing. But it was lovely to see the professional growth of that company doing something and doing it well. And was lovely to see. Yeah, for some reason when it comes down to dogs, we curl our toes and go, that's a bit too professional.

Sara (40:14)
I think it's the difference between producing a product and producing a living animal, know, a bit of biology that has emotions and sometimes I'll use an analogy

As a comparison, I say compare a puppy to a car, which obviously you can't, they're world's apart, but sometimes that's the easiest reference point to use for people because...

Isobel (40:42)
Spend a lot of time in the car with a lot of

Sara (40:44)
Cars

are expensive, they change a lot over time and know cars go in and out of fashion don't they? Designs go in and out of fashion, there's no different to dogs unfortunately. But it's a living bag of biology so it is different and the responsibilities are I don't know like car bills nowadays, MOTs, insurances, road tax. It's pretty similar.

Isobel (41:04)
Tyres!

Sara (41:09)
But the sad thing, I guess obviously the breeding license is meant to bridge that gap of professionalism and welfare of the dogs but it's not there yet. It doesn't cover the broad range of breeders and why they breed and their motivations and the passions behind this, so that definitely still needs to work on.

But that definitely is a nod of trying to be able to ring-fence some breeders and say, yeah, we deem these professional because they do these things. What would you say was your biggest takeaway, overall, from the experience of Crufts? And would you recommend people go? ⁓

Isobel (41:50)
100 % if you have an interest in dogs full stop there is something there for everyone whether your passion is to do with training or you've got a particular hobby

There's everything. you've got the demonstrations, you've got obedience, you've got flyball, you've got heelwork to music, you've got pure...

confirmation classes, you've got Discover Dogs, you've got all the trade stands. So if you're particularly interested in nutrition, you want to go and have a chat with all the experts experts, Maybe some of the dog food stands, maybe not so, maybe just more sales techniques, but there are a lot of dog food stands there that are incredible. You can go and have a chat with people, potentially even the founders are there. And there's a lot of incredibly welcoming, warm people that just want to have a chat with other dog owners. And it's a lovely place to be.

because being a passionate dog owner can be isolating at times unless you've got that network and it's lovely to be reminded that there's that many people that are like you indulging in a beautiful hobby.

Sara (42:53)
Yeah, I think there's definitely something for everyone. It's hard to think of all the different pockets of activity because if you're not in that pocket you don't necessarily know about it. So I'm show person so I don't know the ins and outs of agility. It's a loud place, there's a lot going on. The low level continual noise is quite loud in itself and then there's activities and mic'd rings and...

something going Information, visual overload, lots of trade stands, lots of people trying to lure you in to learn more about what they have on offer. And I think it's interesting to see some of the food suppliers, they're all manufacturers, some of them are very proactive with their marketing, they? Like the people literally

been trained very well with some very convincing words to get a conversation going so they can educate you on what they've got available others are a bit more laid back and a bit more passive but it obviously shows that it's a massive industry yes because it just felt there's a lot of variety this year

Isobel (43:55)
More so actually I felt the last year, I think before I've kind of walked around, it's been like this clothes stuff, there's dog leads and collars, your coat stand, that plays it down massively. It's always been phenomenal, but this year I feel more so than ever. I think it's because the niches are growing. I think the spectrum of dog products is growing. Like we were saying, one of the stands we did a film of earlier, we've got products that are blurring lines between.

home products and dog products and dog furniture and actually dog transportation equipment that is made by children car seat developers and the lines are just blurring everywhere and it's because the demand's there. The more people that get dogs, the more products that people are going to want and the more...

have access to internet and social media and we see what other people are doing and have other ideas, we're going to want to seek out these new wonderful products.

Sara (44:52)
there was a lot less, there's human stalls there, they always are selling bits and bobs. Sometimes in some years it's felt like there's quite a lot of those and less of the dog specific, but as you say, I felt like there wasn't that many human off-brand, un-dog-related stalls, and there were new ones popping up. So for instance, the Odor Capture.

was it interesting because felt like they were trying to replace Febreze. ⁓

Isobel (45:23)
I did wonder. looked much more upmarket. was very impressed with whole Italian design of the stand.

Sara (45:28)
but it was interesting because he said we have three different variations of a product and they were color-coded like a blue one and green one and orange one but he said the orange one I haven't even bought here because that's about cooking smells in the kitchen and obviously you're more interested about dog smells which the other two are more suitable for so he knew his niche of why he was there.

products are going to be relevant to the people that were there and I felt the stores were all pretty well done. Sometimes, no disrespect, there's quite a lot of charity based stores there as well but I didn't actually feel they were there but there wasn't loads of them.

Isobel (46:07)
I think the same number were there. think it's the diversity of other stands has increased. So like you were saying, before there was a lot of human stands, it'd be like human jewellery stands and outdoors wear stands around every corner. They're still there, but there's a fewer of them because I think there's more diversity. For example, we walked past an entire stand.

that sold intimate wipes for dogs. There was an entire stand that sold paw balms. There was an entire stand for cat shampoo. whereas before I feel those much more niche products.

Sara (46:42)
It would be a grooming stall with those little bits on. Yeah, that's true.

Isobel (46:47)
So I think it reflects the fact that people love their dogs more than ever. We've got more dogs on the planet than ever. We've got more dog owners than ever. Dog ownership is on the rise still. And people want to spend and look after their pets better, which is lovely. I loved all the window It was fascinating. And not I to put a negative spin on it, but on the other hand,

more products there are available to you, the more you arguably might be able to go wrong.

many good ones there are that's gonna be bad as with anything, just got to practice logic. Sounds too good to be true, it probably is

Sara (47:34)
If you consider yourself a dog owner past, present, future, I think you have to go to Crufts. It should be one as a dog owner, you should tick that box and experience it yourself. you might never go again, it might not be your bag, but I think it helps you understand the industry, what's available to you, the variety that's on offer, any niche sections that you're into, and so I think you should go at least

Isobel (47:59)
at end of the day if you're listening to to the conversation, you're part of our circle it's because you are a seriously passionate dog person we were laughing in last podcast never mind crazy cat ladies we're crazy dog ladies we are we we adore our dogs

you're in that category welcome to the crazy dog world but if you are you really should be engaging in educational opportunities because you owe it to your dogs you owe it to them to make sure you are up to speed you might think the dog food you're feeding is great but you might walk around crufts

walk past that stand, see that stand, that's empty, why is there no one there, go round the corner and see another new brand that you've never heard of that's absolutely heaving at the seams, have a chat with one of their representatives and find out actually that food's no more expensive, but it's less ultra processed, it's more fresh, and your dog's gonna be healthier on it. And you can make a switch as direct result of walking round that corner and improve a dog's life forever, but had you not gone to Crufts you might never have unearthed that.

Sara (49:10)
how they design.

detail they put in.

personality of, is that what I thought?

to the representatives themselves.

sponsors, oh I wasn't quite expecting them to say that or I didn't realise they stood for that or so I think it's quite nice in that respect it does add the human element to a brand that you might just go on Amazon and buy.

Isobel (49:48)
with our amazon culture now more than ever, we're all online shopping. So it's one thing going on the website, buying what you need to buy,

sat there sorting

or singular person you don't know and I'm thinking until you go and have a chat with them at Crufts go and see their stand like you said.

Sara (50:16)
It's dark, we're tired, we're jaded.

for Thursday it was very busy

Isobel (50:26)
but then again as we're saying Crufts have changed their pricing structure so it might be that because the prices have increased for Saturday more people are thinking actually let's travel during the week instead of at the weekend and wondering if they might catch a quiet day by going earlier on in the week maybe that's why it was so busy today or maybe everyone's just really fancying a day out at the amazing place that is Crufts the most exciting day on most of our calendars this year

Sara (50:52)
you If you havent been, need to go. If you've got time to go this year, go and then you go.

Isobel (50:56)
If you I believe they live stream a lot of on YouTube internationally so anyone can watch. And again, I really would encourage you, if you know your breed is shown at Crufts, try some of the live judging because you will learn a bit more about your breed naturally by seeing what's going on in the ring

Sara (51:26)
If there is one thing you should do, become a breed club member even for a year. see if you like it or not.

Isobel (51:29)
and I think that's something that all of the stands that Discover Dogs are trying to get across is they're not paid to be in these roles. The breed clubs are not paid positions. Everyone there is doing it out of the goodness of their heart for the preservation of their breed,

Frank Kane said yesterday, need to really stand up and fight for our pedigree breeds. We need to really invest in their futures. We need to invest in their health today to secure their futures for tomorrow and it's so important and the major way we can do that is engaging in our breed clubs because the more engagement that we have with them

better because especially as show entries are declining you might have no interest in showing or your lifestyle may not allow you to show and you might have young children or the logistics of it aren't possible you might not have a car big enough for your breed there's so many reasons why showing wouldn't be suitable for you but it doesn't mean that your breed club is invalid or you shouldn't be engaging in a breed club absolutely support them

Sara (52:36)
signing out, we're leaving you on the cliffhanger.

Isobel (52:42)
for the next series you will soon find out if you want to hear more

hopefully you haven't missed us too much If you have

missed us don't forget we do have live calls very regularly inside the Whelping World Support Club so if you're not involved come and join us whelpingworld.com/supportclub

We'd love to see you there, carry on the conversation.

Also if you love a good bit of Facebook you can find our private group on there the Breeders Brew community, Come and join us and we also carry on the conversation there as well. So hope you guys have been well and we look forward to speaking to you all again soon.