Babes in Bookland: Your Favorite Women's Bookclub Podcast
Babes in Bookland is the book club podcast for women who love women's stories. We read the memoirs, dissect the narratives, and celebrate the writers brave enough to put it all on the page. Great books, honest conversation, and a whole lot of love for women's voices in literature. Think of us as your most well-read friend who always knows exactly which book you need next.
Babes in Bookland: Your Favorite Women's Bookclub Podcast
AUTHOR CHAT: Cassidy Gard's "Cosmic Goodness"
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One good choice can re-route an entire life, but only if you trust yourself enough to make it.
I sit down with memoirist Cassidy Gard to talk about the real story behind her healing memoir, "Cosmic Goodness: Surrendering the Shadows to Live in the Light." We also get delightfully specific about book cover decisions, permissions, and why the right quote can set the emotional tone for a chapter.
From there, we go deeper into the heart of her message: “cosmic goodness,” a grounded kind of spirituality she defines as "courage meeting clarity." Whether you love the woo or you hate it, the point is still practical and universal-- Your life changes when your daily decisions match the life you say you want. Cassidy shares the exercises that helped her shift her inner world, including conscious sobriety, writing-based practices for anger, and a commitment to alignment that keeps her open to the right conversations and opportunities.
We also talk about the hard truths that shaped her. Growing up poor with an alcoholic father, shame that settles into the nervous system, imposter syndrome, and the surprising moments that made her feel seen. Motherhood brings another layer, including postpartum anxiety, postpartum rage, and the long road to forgiving yourself after a terrifying accident. The conversation ends with a nuanced take on separating art from artist and how we can outgrow what once carried us.
If you care about memoir, intuition, healing, spiritual growth, postpartum mental health, and rebuilding a life with intention, press play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs hope, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.
Xx, Alex
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Pub Day Joy And Intentions
SPEAKER_01Hi, Cassidy. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Thank you, Alex. I'm so happy to chat with you. Happy pub day. How are you feeling?
SPEAKER_00Amazing. I mean, I'm just grateful. I've looked forward to this day. It feels like it was so far in the horizon. And the fact that it's here now is just complete goosebumps, honestly.
SPEAKER_01Now you get to see the impact that your memoir will have on the world. And I think it's going to be a very positive one because I thought your memoir was just lovely. Even the harder, darker parts that they were wrapped in so much love for yourself and for your readers. It was truly a joyful experience reading about your life. I think your memoir and the guides that you include along the way are going to help so many people, women, learn to trust themselves and reach for more goodness. I think it's a very healing memoir that still encourages us all to excavate why and how we're currently moving through our lives. Is there a better way? Your memoir offers that better way.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. You spoke exactly what my heart's intention was when I wrote it. So getting to hear someone like you, exactly the type of reader, woman, I wrote this for a woman. I love women and their stories. So that is so meaningful to hear you say that. Thank you, Alex.
Why Tell The Story Now
SPEAKER_01You're welcome. Before we dig into the memoir, let's talk about the process. Why now? Why did you decide now is the time that you want to share this? Because you're kind of in the middle of a pretty big chapter in your own personal life. You have two young children and you decided, let me just, let me just write a book and put that out in the world too.
SPEAKER_00You know, I think there's a really fine line when you're far enough out of the storm and chaos that you finally catch your breath, but the wounds that were there are still visceral enough you can taste and feel and remember them. And that is such a juicy place to write because you're not so far out of it that you feel nothing towards the things that happened. But at the same time, when you're in it, you know, something that felt angry at the time, when you go back and you re-examine it with a different layer of reflection, you can write about a life-altering breakup, not from a place of anger, but gratitude. And that's where you get the most impactful writing that I love to read.
SPEAKER_01That's where you were in your life and you needed to make it happen. How were you able to do that while also navigating, raising a young child, and being pregnant with your second? How did you just have the energy?
SPEAKER_00I knew that with my second, I was about to go into this vortex of newborn baby life. And because I had done it with my first, I had this deep intention. It's now or never, if I don't do it now and send this out to potential publishing houses and land that book deal, it might be another year before I come up for air. And at that point, once you have two kids you're chasing, one is different because with one, I could write during nap time. And right now, my children are not napping at the exact same time. So those windows of writing are not there. And now I'm in a different phase of being a writer because I'm getting to support my book, which I'm not on deadline right now. So it's a different season. But in that particular season, last summer, seven months pregnant, it felt very now or never. And that boldness gave me the courage to put myself out there.
SPEAKER_01Did you feel like the book just came together very quickly and organically, or were there moments where you got stuck or had to sort of rethink how you were going to approach it?
SPEAKER_00I had a Google Drive full of essays. I had been in a writer's group for I had started it in 2021. So by the time last summer rolled around, I had four years. Once a week, we would get a prompt. And I always wrote with the intention that this would go in my memoir. It actually was a memoir writing group class. And so a lot of the pieces that I had came from there. And then it was just a matter of puzzle piecing them in. Where do they go? A lot ended up on the, you know, cutting room floor just because of word count. But that was a much better place to have to cut out rather than sit down. Although I did write a lot of new pieces that were more about the motherhood chapter because I hadn't gone as deep yet with some of those stories. How did you decide what to cut and what to keep? That is such a good question.
SPEAKER_01I know it's like your life, right? Like how do you?
SPEAKER_00It was really hard to be honest, because there were there were stories that I did feel added to emotional texture and layer. But when I really thought about it, the ones that I knew had to stay were so loud and evident. You know, the Hurricane Women chapter was life-altering. When I experienced having to really learn what it meant to protect my land and to speak to men that didn't want single women from California to buy land in Montana. Like that was such a ripe experience. And I grew and got so much stronger from those conversations that the idea of cutting that would have made my heart drop. So that was my reference point is does my heart drop at the idea of not including this? And if there were pieces that didn't give me that sensation, I knew that they weren't deep or juicy enough to land in the final memoir.
Editing Notes And Cover Decisions
SPEAKER_01And your memoir is about trusting your instincts. So I I understand that you seemed like you were very open and very confident in allowing almost yourself to guide yourself through this process. Did you work with an editor though? Was there ever any pushback? We really want to keep this one in, or we really want to get rid of this one, and you had to sort of fight for your story.
SPEAKER_00Well, the cool thing about my editor is she had given me the option to send as I was going with a memoir. I did get my deal based solely on it was around a 35-page proposal, but I had an end date that the final manuscript was due, and it was due two weeks before my baby's due date. So I don't really edit in real time. I knew I would get two in my head if I was sending her chapters as I was going because I didn't want to edit as I went through the manuscript. So I did send the final manuscript a good six weeks before the final deadline. And then we went from there. And, you know, getting those full Google Drive back with your 350 pages, notes on every page. Actually, I really tried to look at it through the lens of this is a huge opportunity to work with an editor at such a professional stage that has done this for over 30, 40 years. And the beauty of it is she really gave me the space to flesh out ideas and themes that were important to me. And for that, I am really grateful for my publishing house. There was not much pushback for the content. The only thing that I really did have to work through at on an editing standpoint a lot was I had a very specific idea of what the cover would look like. And that was a challenge to get the cover to a place just because working with different artists and colors and textures and fonts and layers. So that was the place where we spent the most time, to be honest.
SPEAKER_01I feel like you can have decision fatigue because there's so many options out there too. But it's great that you were able to have some control over that. I know that in the narrative fiction world, sometimes you just pass along your manuscript and they take it from there. So I'm glad to hear. I feel like a lot of the memoirists I talk to, there is some control over that cover, which feels right to me because this is your story after all. Like you need to be involved in every aspect of it, I think.
SPEAKER_00Well, I did put it into my contract because you can put the option that final say, you know, has to be agreed upon by both parties. It originally said by just the publisher, but my managing editor was really kind and she said, I know you have such a specific vision, and we really want to make your dreams happen. So what does that look like? My initial proposal idea of cover options was 42 pages. Whoa! I went wild with like themes and textures and Pinterest sports and vibes. Like, look at a cover like Untamed with Glenn and Doyle. You look at that cover and you are transported into another dimension universe planet. Like it is a magical cover. I get the same feeling from Wild with just the boots on the cover. I I think book covers really are like movie posters, except they're for your life if you're a memoirist. So that process is so it's also so fun. It's a lot of pressure, but at the same time, I always try to take the pressure I feel and turn it into I have a book deal, what an incredible opportunity. Like, don't forget to have fun with this and not make it solely about like the pressure of wanting a very beautiful cover, which is I just wanted a very beautiful cover.
SPEAKER_01It's beautiful and it's powerful. I wish I had. I know you're gonna send me one when they're all out. So yeah, you pop it out.
SPEAKER_00I just got it. I just got it. It just came in the mail this week, which was really special. So, and it feels it feels like velvet and it's embossed. I could not be more happy with all of it. I was so crazy about the font choices. I put a piece of art in the front. Oh my god. Edward Munch. He did the screen. So anyway, no. Also about the internal, but the external is a really big part of what you choose to portray your story.
Reviews And Reader Projections
SPEAKER_01I mean, we do judge books by covers. We just do. Yeah. You were in the industry, you produced news segments for a long time, got your Emmys from that. In the in the industry, there's a saying, right? There's the story you write, the story you shoot, and then the story that's basically edited. I'm wondering if there's anything comparable with that, with the memoir. Is there is there the story you set out that you think you're gonna write? Is there the story that you sort of end up writing and is editing? And then there's often, you know, there's the story that I get from it as the reader that you kind of no longer have any control over what I take away, what I connect with, you know, it's it's fascinating, right?
SPEAKER_00That's a really good question. An interesting way to look at it. I do know to be totally transparent, you know, some of the feedback has talked about. I write about my experience and what I went through. And I did read one or two reviews that basically commented, like in the moment of sharing the stories as they happened, I'm not really sharing the after reflections of how my own privilege or opportunities might have added to some of this. You know, like my 17-year-old self, like becoming a stand-in on Gossip Girl for Blake Lively. And I think there was a comment about like my looks probably just played a fact in that opportunity. And I don't acknowledge that in it because I wasn't acknowledging or thinking about that in the moment. I was broke, I was 17, I was in a position where I had zero networking contacts. So there's like blind spots as an author, like that never once crossed my mind ever. But I think as a reader, some people might go back and if they want to paint it as pretty privilege rather than a spiritual inclination and a deep love and understanding for bliss and kismet and how if you place yourself in opportunities where you feel aligned and your energy is just so excited to be there, there is a magnetism that happens because people are like, you can see a person walk into a room that's just like, wow, I'm blessed. Or you could see somebody walk in feeling entitled. And if I go into rooms feeling grateful and blessed, I hope the right people are drawn to that. And I never wanted to go into rooms ever feeling entitled. So looking back, like I do think the job I had was an immense privilege. And I don't know if I dissected that part of it because the privilege also came at a huge mental cost to my mental health. So when I was having a breakdown on the newsroom floor, I wasn't sobbing thinking how privileged I was. I was sobbing thinking like how lonely and honestly depressed I was. So it's interesting how different people take different things from your memoir and your experiences.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's such an interesting take because I feel like those people, if they're going into your memoir, they're kind of missing the entire point. Oh, thank you. Like, yeah, we know privilege exists. You were also extremely unprivileged through your entire childhood. You grew up poor in a roach-infested, falling down, dilapidated home with a father who was at the very, very least emotionally manipulative and abusive. I just think people sometimes project their own stuff onto stories. I would maybe encourage you not to read. I know it's probably so hard. I decided not to. I know. But but talking with you online and reading your memoir, I can understand like all you want from this memoir is it's a gift that you've given other people through your experience and through your life. Like you just want people to read it and have better journeys and experiences and lives and lean into the cosmic goodness. I I totally get that you're just like, you guys are getting it, right? Like you understand the gift that I've given you. And so I'm I'm sorry. I I felt like your memoir was very reflective. I mean, yeah, did you stop and say, oh, I got this Blake Lively stand-in because I'm a gorgeous, tall, blonde person? Well, no, but also like, does that need to be said? Like that's sort of in between the lines.
SPEAKER_00Carrie Doherty, who wrote Selfish, just said a really important post on reviews and what people say. And she really painted a picture that different readers take different things from your writing. So that was immensely helpful. And I also am so grateful I read those two because it made me pause and think, I don't want that to paint my inner world of the excitement of promoting a book. So I have actually made a dedication not to read any of them. And I think the people that do resonate will find me online getting to connect with people like you was really special because when people write, they hope that readers are there to receive it. And so I think just for any memoirist, a space carved on the internet that celebrates memoirs in general is really special. As cheesy as that is, it's very meaningful. Oh, well, thank you.
Quotes As A Story Compass
SPEAKER_01Thank you. And I had Carrie on the show and we sort of talked about that, the fact that her memoir is going to make people uncomfortable. And I think that's if someone has an initial reaction to something like yours where it's like, oh, you had pr pretty privilege, that's the chance for that person to go in and be like, why, why does that upset me so much? Why does it upset me that Cassidy doesn't, anyways, we could talk about, let's get back to your memoir because all I'm saying is I think that that it says a lot more about the reader. And Carrie and I talked about if you feel uncomfortable or your initial reaction is sort of like a negative one or a judgment one, really what you need to do is you need to go in and figure out why. And the other thing is too, you can be the juiciest peach on the tree and you're still gonna find people who don't like peaches, right? So there's that as well. Getting back to your memoir, you have these quotes at the beginning of all these chapters. And and I I'm so excited to have a physical copy because I feel like I need to go back through and highlight and dog tag and do all the things you're not supposed to do in a book. I was just floored because I loved all these quotes and I was like, did she remember these? Do you have just like a notes app on your phone with all these quotes that have just inspired you throughout your life?
SPEAKER_00And I've been emailing them to myself since like 2005. So for the past 20 years.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00My favorite thing about quotes is that they are so succinct. It might even just be five or six words. It's one line, two maybe, and they perfectly encapsulate sometimes the biggest idea in the world. Like it's just it's just there and it's so succinct. So my most favorite part was the puzzle piece of going back through all of the chapters and really looking through, oh my gosh, and just being like, which quote out of these thousands I've ever saved is the one that perfectly captures this time in my life. And oh my gosh. And like like the John Muir one, the mountains are calling and I must go. Oh, it's like the beginning of a movie. It's just yeah, it's cinematic. I love, I love quotes. So I love that you love them too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it sets you up for the experience as the reader. It like gives you the vibe or the energy that you go into that chapter with, which I love.
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you. I loved them too. It was a huge moment to actually get Sylvia Plath, the Belljar, the famous fig theory tree quote for the beginning, because I really felt like with my memoir, I had all these different lifetimes, and so much of my memoir is about this pull towards different figs. And so I wanted that to set up really the whole body of work. And when that got approved in the publishing house, granted me the rights to use it. It was a very special day to be like, wow, she gets to introduce this book and meant a lot. That is so cool. Okay, so you did have to get clearance for every quote that you included. The editor and the publishing house went through, and some of the quotes that are just a line, you have fair use, you're allowed to use them, obviously, with credit. And then some of the longer ones, like the Hurricane Woman one that has the quote from Looking for Alaska from John Green, is a lot longer. So that one I had to go and you know seek special permission. And that was a full-time job because my editor said, you know, we don't really have the bandwidth. You have a lot of lyrics in here and a lot of quotes. So you have about four weeks max. And if you do not come back with clearances, we're just gonna have to cut them. So I was with, you know, a two-week old on my chest every time he was napping. And luckily, my two-year-old was somehow entertained by dirt in the yard or hopefully had napped. I was just drafting emails, you know, seeking permission. And other okay, to be totally honest, I got permission from every single person I wanted except for one. And I did, I took a video because Stevie Nix's team, I mean, I tried for pretty much almost every other couple days for a Stevie Nix lyric, and it was time casts a spell on you, but you won't forget me. You know, that like really famous line. But it was okay. Like I still got to reference that in the story for one of the big breakups. One day, I hope I'll get to incorporate a line or two of hers in a different body of work when the time is right. We'll see.
The Guides And Getting Unstuck
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay. So before we get further into your memoir, let's talk about these guides that you also have decided to include. Talk to me about discovering the idea.
SPEAKER_00Was that always a part of it? You know what? It's like I'm writing in some of the darkest points, and there is a recognition that happens with the reader. Like anytime I've ever gone to a party in Los Angeles when I was single, when I met another girl that was like, oh my God, I'm single too. I really want to meet my person. And oh, I just can't wait to be a mom one day. Like those moments when you like really connect with somebody, now I'm like, I came out the other side, all the things I had hoped for had happened. Like, what is a gift I can give back of what helped me? Right. So when I decided to be consciously sober, not from a place of rock bottom, but like a very clear intention of the life I wanted to live, that I wasn't yet there, but how am I gonna get there? There were a lot of really fewer clear, concise steps I took to change my inner world, to reflect the external. So I could like attract a different caliber that I that I currently was in. And so some of the exercises in it really helped me. Like some of my anger towards my mother, I did write out, like, I don't know, it just came to me. I was postpartum and I just wrote out every single thing that I was angry at her for ever doing. And like having it just like all live on the paper instead of in my mind and my heart, like was so healing. And so all of that, that in there that I incorporate, I hope that a reader will pause and just be like, okay, I'll try this. Let's see what happens.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Let's see what happens. And I think that's a really good segue to getting into the meat of your memoir because you know, someone could pick up this memoir and they could be like, oh, this gets a little woo-woo. It's a little like spiritual. I don't know about this. But even from just like a if you, I guess a non-spiritual perspective, you just ask people to get real with the type of life that they want and get real about the type of decisions that they're making and if those two things are in harmony. And oftentimes you may find that they're not, and there's gonna be things that you need to dig deeper into, and it can be really scary, but you show us how you did it, and then you came out on this other beautiful side, and you're living this really beautiful life that you're proud of, but that you worked really hard to endure in the ways that you could. And there is only so much that we can control in life, but I do think that your entire theme is reaching for this cosmic goodness. So let's define cosmic goodness. You talk about it many times throughout your memoir, but if someone were just to be like, Cassidy, what what do you mean cosmic goodness? What does that mean? What would you say?
SPEAKER_00Cosmic goodness is the intersection of when your courage meets clarity, the clarity of your vision for. Your life and the courage to essentially make it happen. And I do believe the woo-woo side of me, the very spiritually attuned side, I believe there is an external universal force. It can be God, it can be angel guides, it can be nature, it can be anywhere that you go. And it's that feeling of total surrender and like that exhale, like everything's gonna be okay. Because when you that's how you feel and that's where you're operating from, you greet the day differently. You're available for opportunities in a different way. You are open to conversations you were meant to have. And it's that common thread where people will be like, you will never believe what just happened. I cannot believe what a small world it is. Like those moments, you cannot orchestrate them, you cannot produce them. It's magic. It is like the kismet fate magic of your life. And I wanted to write about how I accessed that. And I think when people stop and pay attention, they're going to recognize the places of their life. I mean, the most clear for me was when I found that home in Montana and the sellers said, we're moving to Ocala, Florida. And I said, I grew up there. I lived there for 17 years. What do you mean you're moving to Ocala? And they said, we bought a ranch in Ocala and we're going to raise horses. And I was like, that's where I'm from. And they chose me to buy it. Like, you cannot even make that up. Like that was just clearly the universe had orchestrated some intersection. I was supposed to meet them. And it happened. And like that whole entire process changed my whole life. And when you're seeking and you're in a place of total depression or anxiety, as I was, like those life-altering moments that change your life, like is what you have to have the clairvoyance to recognize to hold on to it and just see what happens.
SPEAKER_01I think for me, it was a very obvious realization that you were not, even though you were anxious and had depression, were going through this spiral at work, you still weren't really operating from a fear-based mentality, which I think a lot of us are right now, because life can feel really scary.
SPEAKER_00Alignment is my word, because I think when alignment happens, it is when you are your most self-assured and grounded. Like any good thing that falls in your path, if you're not grounded, you're not going to be there to receive it. So seeking like to be grounded makes you unshakable. If you have roots in something that gives you life rather than drains your energy or depletes your nourishment, you're going to be your strongest to make sure that you're available when these opportunities arise.
Childhood Shame And Being Seen
SPEAKER_01I love that. Well, let's talk about your journey to becoming that woman and realizing these beautiful realizations. So, like you said, you grew up in Ocala, Florida. And your book is the journey back through your life from childhood, learning to quote, choose again and again to turn your face toward the sun. And I love that you use that word choice because I do think it's a muscle. And I think that you see as we go through your journey, we see you flexing that muscle and trying to go stronger and trying to grow those roots and trying to figure out the best way to be grounded and to listen to your intuition and to lean towards the light. Share with us a little bit about your childhood. Obviously, we want them to read your memoir, but I think this will dissuade anyone from thinking, oh, this girl's just had everything work out for her her entire life. Of course, she can come from this place of abundance. That's the opposite of fear-based, abundance-based, right? Of course she can come from this place of everything works out. No.
SPEAKER_00It's the darkness and shadows of growing up with an alcoholic father. And so much of my childhood was spent in shame spirals, feeling so anxious that people would find out. I spent a tremendous amount of my energy wanting to hide the house I was growing up in and making sure that no one at any school events could figure out my dad was the person that looked like a bum and he was clearly intoxicated. I was so embarrassed. And the shame that came with the pity, like some of the teachers very obviously felt very bad for me. And it's so wild because the daughter of the vice principal that gave me the bag of her old clothes is now a really distinguished author who just posted about her first book deal. And I've never told her that she is the kid from that story because we have remained close. And I know her mom did it like out of pure good, like good intentions. But that's that moment where like an adult does something like, oh, leaves a trash bag full of clothes. And it's like such a nice gesture. She meant so well. But that child, like explaining to the rest of the class, like, oh, they did that because she's poor, that like embedded itself in my nervous system. That sitting there and just having 25 kids be like, Why is there a trash bag full of hand-made-on clothes for her? And then that girl, like saying that, and suddenly like 25 kids at once, knowing you're poor. And it the girl spoke the truth. And what second grader like knows how to filter? Like, I don't even think her saying that came from an awful place. She was just very matter-of-fact about it. But that shame really cast a shadow over my self-esteem, who I was. And I love later your questions about John Mayer, because the truth of it is when I was 15 and I had my idol, like somebody that I looked up to, see me and not know anything about where I was from, our poverty, none of the aspects that, you know, going to elementary school with these kids, I was in the same middle school with these kids. I was in the same high school with these kids. So this shadow, I could never escape it. But when somebody I admired at such a high level like cracked that instantly by like seeing me and saying something that made a deep impression, it really did like shatter the spell because I left that trip and went back to Florida. And I was like, I don't care about any of these social dynamics. I am going to leave this town and I am going to go reinvent myself in New York City. And none of this is going to matter ever again. And I did carry that fortitude with me. And once I was 17 and moved out, I never like let it consume me. But I still had moments where I was in rooms with really high-level people and I felt like the poor kid from Florida. And I was like, oh my God, do they know? Like, do they know I'm not one of them?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Imposter syndrome is a wild beast. Yeah. And we'll get into John Mayer because I'm I'm sure a lot of our listeners will kind of have maybe a similar reaction just because we do know so many more things about him now. We'll save that for the end because I definitely could appreciate what he meant to you. And at that time, too, you know, he was kind of this newer guy putting out this fantastic music that even I love John Mayer. But what it gave you just the possibility of seeing yourself differently that no one else was able to give you. You did have a friend that you that you wrote about. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. But so it was great that you still sort of found people who got you. But I can definitely understand, especially with the adults that seems to be in your life. When people tell you who you are over and over again, you start to believe them. And that night John Mayer gave you just a different way to see yourself, a different lens to see yourself, especially coming from someone who meant so much to you. And I think people can find that in their own lives. It doesn't have to be the celebrity, you know, rock star, acoustic guy that you went and saw at the concert. But it was such a beautiful moment of kismet. It felt like without that moment, where would Cassidy be now?
SPEAKER_00I it was an intersection. It was like a sliding doors moment. It really was before and after because I felt like a completely different person that had taken off the cloak of that identity that had been told to me for so long. And I I just had this like new lease on who I wanted to be. And I titled that chapter seen because I felt seen. And so those moments, if you're open and available, it doesn't have exactly as you said. It doesn't have to be a rock star that you idolize as a teenager in that way. It can show up in different forms. Like lately, it's just been like the pureness of interactions with my children because how my sons see me and what they look to me for is validating in a way that shines brighter than any recognition I could ever get. And I know every mom says that. Like it's so cliche on paper, but at the truth of it, like at the end of the day when I'm 85, like something has happened where like viscerally I'm so hyper-focused on how I show up for the children I'm raising that worrying if I disappoint somebody else is like a 0.1 on the totem scale. Disappointing my children is like weighs so heavily to me. And so suddenly like your energy of priorities changes so dramatically.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's where now I'm like able to feel so grounded because I know what I'm able to maneuver like energetically, like what's worthwhile moving mountains and the stuff that's not. I just don't, I don't use my emotional reservoir energies on that stuff anymore. So motherhood like consumes you, but also it clarifies for you in a really powerful way.
Motherhood Changes Priorities And Brain
SPEAKER_01That is such a beautiful way to put it. And you know, I think they're still researching this, but they've literally discovered it changes our brain alchemy. So like we we literally are changing when we become mothers. Do you have children? Yes, I have a seven-year-old daughter and a three-year-old son.
SPEAKER_00Seven was such a pivotal age. What like, oh seven. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I know. It's wild. It's it's quick tangent. I I've mourned the phases of her that I've lost. Like when she turned one, I was like, I really missed the six months. I love the one-year-old, but I missed the six-month-old. And then two, it just I kept mourning who she was, while also still loving who she was. And then something happened in the past few months, and I was like, damn, seven is a beautiful place to be. Like I don't, I'm just ready to be with her now. I don't miss the other iterations of her. It was like I was trying to cling on to something.
SPEAKER_00I'm so glad you said that because I started crying in the bed this morning. My seven month old fell asleep on my chest. And I was like, he's never gonna be seven months old falling asleep on my chest ever again. Next month, he'll be eight months old. So I really appreciate you mentioning like both the mourning and the celebrating of them. It's so beautiful. It's like it's everything I ever wanted. We're so lucky we get to be moms.
SPEAKER_01I completely agree. It's it's beautiful. Let's talk about your mom. You shared with us earlier that you wrote out all the ways that she had hurt you, all the things that she had made you angry about. Where are you guys today? Have you been able to have these conversations with her?
SPEAKER_00We have. It was we got into a lot of this, it came to a boiling point. And I'll be totally honest. When I went into labor with my second son, my mother was so kind. She came to watch my first son, and I went into labor around like 4 a.m. And my goal is always to labor at home as long as I can. And I didn't even write about this in the book because it was so fresh when my final manuscript was due. I was very much in labor and getting ready to go to the hospital because it was very evident my contractions were incredibly close. And my mom walked in and she was like, Where are the haircutting scissors? I really want to trim my bangs. And no, and I was like, uh, they're they're in the bathroom cabinet. And she walked out of the room and went in the bathroom cabinet. And when I left for the hospital, she was just trimming her bangs. And when we got in the car, you know, I was doing my hypnobirthing, but even my partner was like, that was wild. Like she's just trimming her bangs while you're in active labor. And my two-year-old was still asleep. So I was so pissed off about it. Like a week later, when I got home, I was just like, you know, as a mom, like, why wouldn't you offer to get me water or rub my back or just sit with me? Like, why, why did you need to like at that moment like go cut your bangs? And, you know, she just saw, like, my bangs were in my eyes and they were bothering me. And so I talked to my therapist about it later, and she was just like, you know, your expectation for your mom to show up in a certain way during like really pivotal moments is going to be a constant internal battle with your expectations versus reality. Like that was the best she could show up in that moment. She did watch your two-year-old so you could go like be in active labor. And I was grateful for that. But I did have a morning with that. I thought, even if it was my own daughter-in-law, like if somebody's in labor in front of me, like I'm not going to be consumed with trimming my bangs in that moment. But that was the best way my mom could show up in that moment. And I have grief over that. I told her I had grief over that, and she wasn't really able to hold it or recognize it. She just was like, my bangs were in my eyes. You know, that was her response. So it comes up in so many unexpected ways. I'm trying to just focus on the type of mom I would like to be in the ways that I can. And I I think I have to stop having expectations for what I needed because it's just not going to be how I imagined.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And all these questions that you sort of write about through your childhood where you're like, how could she do this? How could she let me go with this person? Or how could she not see this, or how could she not protect me? Sounds like maybe you're never gonna get those answers. Yeah. So how are you learning to let that go?
SPEAKER_00To be really honest, I just I don't think I fully have. This is the type of thing where, like, I think I could probably write about that like way more truthfully, as dark as this is, like after she passes. I hope she lives another 25 years. Like, I want her to live as long of a healthy life as she can. Even some of the bigger reflections I have, I don't think I can hold the most jagged pieces of that truth and release them while she's still there to like receive them. I I wrote the most truthfully about my father, and my essays were the most raw and true. All of it was true and vulnerable once he died. It was so hard, like in the midst of caretaking, to truly write about it. All of my realizations that I had towards who he was, like, I was still very blurred by the person in front of me. And I did have this hopefulness that we would find like a father-daughter relationship that was what I had always like imagined. Like I lived in a fantasy world. I loved Father of the Bride, I loved Steve Martin, I wanted that dad. That was the dad I wanted. And that I got like the big Lebowski dad. That was the dad I got.
Spirituality Without The Price Tag
SPEAKER_01I know. I think it's really hard. I navigate that with my parents as well. And it's just like uh I've grieved the parents that I've needed them to be while trying to let go of that and just allow them to be the parents that they are while also still holding on to the hope that they can still be the parents that I would love and need them to be truly. All right. Talk to me about your spiritual journey. I love that you, girl, I got that um that book that you did, the three miracles, 365 miracles. I ordered it because of your book. Oh, but you kind of dabble in a lot of different things. Feels like you're able to, in a very confident way, let things go that don't work for you in a way that was harder for me to understand. Being raised Catholic, I was like, oh no, Cassidy, we have to take the the good parts of religion and the bad parts of religion.
SPEAKER_00So I really admired that. My first true entry point was Marianne Williamson. And here is a woman that was so profound and true. And she took really challenging topics that I didn't know how to digest, and she made them bite size. I say in the book that she says, when you're angry at somebody, pray for their happiness every single day for 30 days. And by the end of the month, one of two things will have happened. You no longer will be angry, you will feel a level of forgiveness and healing, or two, you just won't care anymore. And so I'm sitting there, you know, I'm like 22 years old, and I just thought, how profound. And then she gave us this prayer. She said, if you're angry at somebody, just say over and over, I forgive you and release you to the Holy Spirit. I forgive you and release you to the Holy Spirit. And those moments where I hadn't yet learned how to like in my brain neurologically pause from ruminating, where I was like, I just can't believe they did that and they said this, and that's not even true. And like I could get so wrapped up in the warped view of it. And she just gave me an exit ramp. And it felt so wholesome and so good because if somebody makes you angry to be able to just be like, I'm I'm gonna pray for your happiness. Like it is the most evolved thing I could possibly think. And it doesn't have to be in like a Florida mean girl way where you're like, oh, bless her heart. It's true. Like you have to, if you're gonna say, I'm gonna pray for your happiness, you really have to mean it. Because if you do it from like a fake place, it doesn't count and it doesn't work. So my spiritual journey started with Marianne, and that was my entry point. So you weren't raised uh in any religious Grateful Dead was our religion. I was raised going to Grateful Dead shows, Grateful Dead lyrics, everything Grateful Dead, which funny enough, for a Deadhead, that is their religion. And so later, though, there's so many lyrics within The Dead that I identify with. Like the song I'm named after Cassidy, one of the lines is let the words be yours, I'm done with mine. And I just thought, like, how powerful just to have this like beautiful way of, you know, saying, like, I'm done here, like in a really like poetic, stunning way. And so I wasn't like raised, you know, my grandparents were very Catholic. My mom was not married to my father when I was born, and they never got married. And my mom kept my identity from her father a secret for four years because she had so much shame out of having a child out of wedlock. So moments like that, there's like things I discovered later. And like I don't, I don't even remember meeting my grandfather for the first time. Like, I just remember always knowing him. Spirituality can be such a loaded word for so many people. There it's like there is a level of it that like the word is so big, it can feel really intimidating. In Los Angeles, there is a very vibrant spiritual community. I have found a lot of it to be really clicky. Like some of it felt very like challenging to actually like tap into it. And a lot of it now, because of just the consumerism world we live in, like has become a lot about retreats that are super expensive, what you can buy, you know, really expensive life coaches. But like the true matter of all the spirituality that I write about, that I accessed, it was all from books. Like it was all free. It was accessible to all. And like that's the part I'm interested in the most, not like the most expensive somatic healer you can hire, which doesn't feel attainable in the same way. And a lot of them are very expensive, like thousands and thousands of dollars.
SPEAKER_01So I totally agree with you with this culture that sort of come, and I feel like it's just indicative of a bigger problem where we want to solve things without actually acknowledging and excavating what the true issues are and what the problems are. We want to solve the symptoms, and you can't do that. And I think your memoir encourages us all to figure out okay, you've got your symptoms that you're living with. Why?
SPEAKER_00Why? And also a lot of the gatherings now are substance-based, whether the substances are mushrooms or ketamine or teas or frog poison, you know, all of these substances, ayahuasca, if you're using substances to like try to get to that place where you're able to have like a life-altering experience in a weird way, like I do think some of it can like rob you of like the right of passage of just going through the dark night of your soul without a substance. You know, mine really came after my father's passing. You know, his death was a very impactful time. But through that devastation and grief that came with it, like also, you know, there's the famous Where the Cracks Are is Where the Light Comes In from Leonard Cohen. And that was my truth. That was very true for me.
Network News Costs And Side Doors
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So you take us through your whole journey of leaving Florida, going to New York, ending up in LA, your producer for a news segment. I I really appreciated how you talked about how exhilarating it was to crack a story, but also what it cost you personally and emotionally and mentally, especially in our our age of media right now, clickbait, right? It feels like the truth is getting lost somewhere. And I just really I appreciate it. And it ultimately kind of ended up having a toll on you and you realized you needed to get out. As I was reading it, I was Like wow, even when life gets really hard for Cassidy and she makes these decisions, taking care of your father, letting him move into your apartment when he's dying, even though you guys have had a very tumultuous relationship, you just seem to trust that like life would catch you growing up the way you did. How do you think you were able to go from that experience and not have this scarcity, desperate mindset like we've been talking about? People, people picked up on this energy from you. You walked into places and you just understood your value in a way that I find really fascinating. And I'm just curious how you think you got to that point.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think the truth of it is, is when you're at a really high level with network news, you do gain respect based on your success. My initial success was also from a really dark place because I was working on mass shooting stories. I was working on stories where I was jawer-knocking a woman that was a survivor and her sister was shot and didn't make it. When I was knocking on those doors, I was carrying a lot of what I had started to learn from Marianne Williamson. You know, she says before every single meeting you go into, you should pray to be divinely guided for the greater good for all. So I would pray in my car just to know I was approaching an incredibly tragic, sensitive event, and also had to silence the part of myself that was like the last thing I want to do is Jordan off this person who just lost somebody and say to them, we would love to have you exclusively on Good Morning America tomorrow morning. Your hit time will be 6 a.m. We can send a camera crew to get ready at 4 a.m. Cool. It's 8 p.m. the day before. So that like initial, it's so hard to use the word success. Like one of my Emmys is from best coverage of the Las Vegas shooting in 2017. Like best coverage of something like dark and incredibly traumatic. Like a part of that just feels like very wrong. When we were working on these stories, it wasn't always just me door knocking. I would have NBC, CNN, all of these other outlets with other reporters like really clamoring. And I really just think like people agreed to exclusives and said yes, because like the energy of how I was approaching it was always first from a place of like, how are you? Are you okay? Yeah, human to human. Yeah, like a lot of the others would just jump right in with like what outlet they were from, who the interview was gonna be with. And it felt so aggressive. But like very early on, like I remember like the first huge story I worked on globally was Edward Snowden. And I was on email chains with the president of ABC News at the time, and I was 22 years old. And so at that time, like being cast into such a high level, but you know, Edward Snowden's friends that I was interviewing with, they all gathered at this local rock climbing gym that a neighbor had told me I had gone to his old apartment, and the neighbor said, Oh, like he loves rock climbing. He always goes to this one gym. And all of my initial sources that were giving me really valuable insight were just rock climbers. So I just like went and would order a pokey bowl and a smoothie and like hang out with the rock climbers. And at the same time, I have these really high-level important people asking me to get information for this. I mean, it started as a national story, but it became worldwide. And I was going to a rock climbing gym to get the story. Like that was the other network producers, like hadn't found out about this rock climbing gym. So they were all like going to the place of his employment, like trying to seek information. And I think at the heart of it, I write about like look for the side door. If everybody is in front of the building and they're standing with the bouncers and the press clip in, like if you have to go through a side door, like once you're inside, like what you do with the opportunities and context in front of you is what matters most. Not exactly like if you get in, quote unquote, the right way.
SPEAKER_01Do you feel like because your childhood was from not like a rock bottom place, but it was a really difficult, traumatic childhood, did it almost feel like there was nowhere to go but up with the rest of your life? Honestly, yes. You were just gonna keep saying yes and figuring out how to make the most out of every opportunity that came your way. But you also did a lot of letting go, which I thought was so interesting too. Like you go to New York and you're the stand-in for Blake Lively on Gossip Girl. But then, like at a certain point, you were just like, oh, this kind of isn't for me anymore. And it did seem like that was a little bit of a more difficult thing for you to do when you were producing for Good Morning America, maybe because you got so far along in that career that it was harder to pivot. But I thought that was a really beautiful part of your journey because I think a lot of us feel like our life, you plan your life out, you know, five years, ten years, what's your 10-year plan? And then you're afraid to deviate from it because you feel like, well, I've I've committed to this a certain amount. What else is there for me to do if I change? And you just seem to trust that the universe would close a door but open a window for you and you would find that window.
SPEAKER_00I love that. Yeah, like it was easier to leave Good Morning America because I had found this access point to being an entrepreneur with cosmic goodness. It was an Airbnb when I first found it and it was already operating of as that. And then I redid it, I redecorated it, I branded it, like I made it a totally different experience than what it had been. And that was really nourishing and exciting to me because I had never had a really beautiful home that was a sanctuary growing up. And so I got to, it was such a healing experience for me to own something, and it was all mine, and I got to create that. And that's like my favorite thing about every aspect of my life now is I get to create two childhoods. I get to every morning, I'm like, wow, what is the itenniary for today? What is the thing that they get to make a memory of? And it's so cool to like see what resonates and what doesn't with children, you know. Yeah, and on the day-to-day basis. I used to produce stories for other people and create experiences, and now it's a much more internal world, what I get to like create and that world I get to live in. But that was a season, it was a season to do that, to be in my 20s, powerful, high-profile network career. Yeah. But it wasn't going to sustain me like through my 30s and 40s. But some people do it. Yeah. They do it. They have the kids and they're working these hours every week. And I know they miss a lot of it. And that's not a judgment, but I didn't want to miss their childhoods. And so that was a choice I had to make.
Postpartum Anxiety And Self Forgiveness
SPEAKER_01We always do have choices. It may, it may feel like we don't, but this is one thing that I sometimes I struggle with because I'm like, if that person didn't feel like they had a choice. But truthfully, there are always choices and there are always consequences, good or bad. And sometimes you just have to be willing to make the sacrifices that can go along with the choice. Your memoir, too, is just about that cultivating and that creating, and that we do have that capacity within all of us to create a better life. You lay out how to do it. We're not really going to have time to get into all your beautiful relationships. But I do want to bring up before we get into a little bit more, John Mayer, I do want to bring up your writing about your experience with your first child, this very traumatic situation that happened where you felt you had to take on so much of the motherhood burden. Not the burden of motherhood, because I, I mean, it can feel like a burden of mine, but um the invisible labor, the invisible labor that happens. There's a moment where your child, your first child is just born golden, you write about it, you say his name in the book. So golden and you're exhausted. But you're you also know your partner's exhausted. And it's a thing that I think a lot of us go through in those first early months where you're you're navigating something you've never navigated before. There's no way to prepare yourself for the level of exhaustion that can happen. You're also trying to be cognizant of your partner and their responsibilities to the world outside of what's happening and all that stuff, and you fall asleep and golden rolls off your chest and he hits the floor. Walk me through that moment. And then you talk about being just kind of in this place of anxiety, postpartum anxiety, but also feeling very scared to let Golden out of your sight until now. It seems like you've been able to sort of let that go. But then how are you doing with indigo, your second son? Do you find yourself dipping back into these anxious places?
SPEAKER_00Thankfully, well, I'll answer like part one of your question, just a slight pace for the listener. But yes, I'm laying on the bed, I hear a really loud thud, and I instantly jolt awake to like a blood curdling scream. And Golden has hit his head very hardly and very hard against the floor, and the bed was, you know, quite high off the floor. And just that immediate realizing seeing him sprawled on the floor and picking him up and just running my hands all over his body to make sure he's okay, and pretty immediately feeling like a giant lump on his head. And my partner and I were sleeping in separate shifts. So holding the baby, baby's screaming. I have to go wake up squirrel, my partner. That's what I call him in the book, and tell him what happened. And like we immediately called the pediatrician. She advises us to go to the ER. We are told after X-rays that his skull has a fracture and there's a brain bleed. So everything that comes after that is see, I'm laughing because that's like the only defense I have at some moments, is just like it was the worst experience of my life. And also in writing about it, I know based on the four or five people that came up to me during the hospital, at my lowest point, I had a doctor come up and say, My wife fell asleep when our baby was still in the hospital before she discharged, and the baby fell off the bed from the hospital bed. Also, skull fracture, baby's fine now. But as all of this was happening, the doctors were saying, like, we're monitoring, like, we don't know at this exact moment. There is no guarantee if there's an effect from this, whether it's a cognitive change. We have no idea. Writing about that, it did cast a huge shadow over my first year and a half of postpartum. And I really spent a great deal of time in therapy. You know, really did help heal those parts with my second child. Thank God, like, you know, knock on wood, like nothing has happened again like that. But I have lived most of my motherhood journey with this like paralysis that I'm going to like accidentally do something, you know, an accident that, you know, really tainted my experience. So if a mom is listening and has ever had a moment where she messed up, you know, I hope that she can read the book and find her own reflection and healing and forgive herself. Because that's really who I had to forgive was myself. And it wasn't, you know, my partner and I's navigating of how like the nights would look or the domestic changes. But also he and I had really serious conversations with like how to handle sleep patterns with our second that we didn't have with the first. So it was a different experience.
John Mayer Then And Now
SPEAKER_01You also write about postpartum rage, which I really appreciate. I think is a lot lesser talked about symptom of postpartum. And so it really was this beautiful, powerful moment. It sounds like there's room for a second memoir, maybe down the road. Oh, yeah. As mothers, we take a lot on, like you said, I mean, even creating the childhood, like that can feel like a very big and it is an important responsibility, but also you're human and you're expected to be superhuman so many times. And so I just always appreciate when women write about that. And I think you're right. I think people can find a lot of healing through what you've experienced just in their own situations. Because the last thing that the world needs is moms feeling guilty and anxious about just doing their damn best, which is what we're all hopefully doing, right? Like, come on, there's already too much pressure out there. Let's just give ourselves grace. Give ourselves grace. Speaking of giving people grace, let's talk a little bit about John Mayer. So he was this guiding light through your memoir. I mean, it was kind of wild how often you would just pop up and you were like, oh wow. I mean, it's it really was wild. And so people can experience that part for themselves. But I had shared this with you in an email in our outline that that was the one thing in your memoir that I personally bumped on because I had read Jessica Simpson's memoir. We all know about his comments now that he made in Playboy. And I personally do struggle with separating art from artist. And nowadays it feels like you have to do that to even like listen to songs or watch movies because a lot of men, especially, have gotten away with a lot of really canist behavior. Do you still love John Mayer? Do you appreciate him for who he has been for you? Have you had to reconcile who he maybe has been to other people? Or are you just like, girl, I'm living my life? Like, I don't have time for that.
SPEAKER_00I look back on that fragment in time, that very distinct moment where I truly feel like he changed my life and I have a very deep gratitude. But also I understand people that know him at a deeper level most likely do get into a cycle of toxicity that can feel really damaging. I have not read Jessica Simpson's memoir, but I've seen like fragments of it over time, and I understood that it seemed like a dance, a push, a pull. There were times she found happiness and got healthy and whole. I remember a headline that she was like building a new life with Tony Romo and John Mayer kept reaching out. And I think the tensions of that, I spared it because I knew him at such a surface level. Like the charm and his comments was this like miraculous moment that changed a 15-year-old's life. The rest of it, I know he is probably seeking a lot of the things he publicly does interviews that he would like to find, but it doesn't seem like his actions of what he does behind closed doors matches with the intention of what he's saying he's looking for. And so I would say that that makes it hard to I don't get wrapped up in his music the way I did as a teenager. I feel like I've evolved past that in some way, but I do have gratitude for that time and that moment in time. But also my life is so full and juicy and wondrous. I'm not really seeking like that miraculous guiding light. I didn't need it at 36 the way I needed it at 15. Yeah. And so it's like I outgrew the version of myself that would like look for that. He does a lot of interviews, like saying he wants to become a dad. Like that's his new thing. He always likes doing all these interviews about how much he wants to become a dad.
SPEAKER_01We can want things, but I think that's such a huge part of your memoir, too, is like you can want things, but there's work involved. You have to change your patterns, you have to change your thoughts, you have to approach life differently, you have to let go of the anger, you have to evolve and you have to lean towards the light and search out for cosmic goodness. But it's a search, it's a choice.
SPEAKER_00Like it's it's insane, even like talking to you about this because like when I look at the core of it, like the whole reason I ended up in Paradise Valley is because I really liked his record called Paradise Valley. And then the cabin was waiting for me there. And I'm like, I don't, I it's like this, it's that unexplainable. I can't even like wrap my head around it. Like it doesn't make sense. And I haven't quite found the the words to understand it truly. Maybe in like 25 years I will. But in the meantime, like it's still, I still don't understand how it happens like that. I really don't.
SPEAKER_01And I think it's okay to appreciate art for what it means to you and what it does for your soul while acknowledging, like, yeah, maybe the artist sucked.
SPEAKER_00I have to say one thing that I do like, I sometimes love like the inner workings of social media. I did laugh because Jessica Simpson does follow John Mayer and she likes a lot of his pose. There you go.
SPEAKER_01Maybe she was praying for him for 30 days and she got to that point. I love that. Maybe she was. Okay, Cassidy, before I let you go, um, I have a few just short, quick little questions for you. So you are a memoir lady. That's one thing that we connected on. You love women's memoirs. What is the most impactful memoir you've ever read?
SPEAKER_00It was Untamed Glenn and Doyle because within a month of reading it, I was solo woman road tripping to Montana. I read it and then I left. It was so immediate.
SPEAKER_01Okay, here's a question I ask all my authors. How do you stay hopeful today?
SPEAKER_00Through my kids, through the eyes of a child, as cheesy as it is. Oh my God, just seeing my son light up about the things that excite him just gives me like hope and humanity and wholeness and pureness, the miracle of my life.
SPEAKER_01The small things that just light them up, and you're like, oh right, that's what it's all about. Okay, what is your favorite word? Alignment.
SPEAKER_00Alignment. Every nothing else like matters if it's not aligned. All the other words sound so good and they're beautiful, but if you are not aligned, that attunement doesn't serve you because it's not for a higher, greater, more grounded good. So alignment is the core of it all. I love that.
SPEAKER_01Okay, and then our last question, my babe in the bookland question jar. These are all very random. Oh, okay. This one's oh, this one's interesting for you. What was your most delusional I've got this moment?
SPEAKER_00I love that question. Oh my gosh. Going into reality TV, I produced one season. The Bachelor did a spin-off show called Listen to Your Heart. And I shot it in 2019, and I was a cast producer, and it was my first time working in reality TV. Working with reality TV stars and the producers of The Bachelor was a totally different thing than I ever could have imagined. And it came with a lot of challenges, and it was really emotionally wrecking. As hard as I thought network news was working on what I was working on, reality TV was a completely different beast entirely. That could be a whole book.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then the pandemic hit, and that's when you go to Montana, and then the rest of your life kind of unfolds from there. You guys, there is so much goodness in Cassidy's memoir. We barely poked the surface today. I hope all of you pick it up because I really think it will just be the first step for healing for so many women. Thank you, Cassidy, for coming on the show. I absolutely adored chatting with you.
SPEAKER_00I'm so honored. I love chatting with you so much. It's so this has been the greatest joy of releasing a book is getting to connect with other women, especially you, that you love memoirs. It's such a beautiful like corner of the internet. And I love everything you're doing. So thank you for having me. Thank you so much. Thank you, Alice.
SPEAKER_01Bye.
SPEAKER_00Bye.
