Followed By Mercy

The Carnivore Diet: Healing Body, Mind, and Spirit

• W. Austin Gardner

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“Sugar is delicious. You’re lying if you say it’s not,” Katie laughs, and she means it. But for two years now, she hasn’t touched the stuff. Not because of iron willpower, but because life on the carnivore diet has changed her from the inside out emotionally, mentally, and spiritually.

For years, mood swings and low moments just felt like her “normal.” Irritability and emotional crashes were part of daily life. It wasn’t until her husband looked her in the eyes and said, “I don’t care what it costs, I got my wife back,” that she realized something profound had shifted.

What changed? It wasn’t therapy, or medication, or another diet. It involved eliminating sugar and plant-based foods, embracing animal proteins and healthy fats, and discovering what her body and brain truly craved. Within months, Katie’s emotional highs and lows gave way to calm. Depression and irritability faded. In her journal, she counted over 30 areas where her health and life improved beyond what she ever hoped for.

In this episode, Katie and Austin discuss the surprising connection between what we eat and how we feel. You’ll hear why leading doctors are now recommending animal-based diets for conditions as diverse as infertility and schizophrenia, and how sugar sneaks into almost everything we eat, even foods that claim to be healthy.

Most of all, Katie shares how newfound emotional stability has opened the door to a deeper spiritual life. When your body isn’t in constant turmoil, it’s so much easier to pray, to parent, to serve, to enjoy God and your family again.

If you’re weary from the emotional rollercoaster, tired of trying to fix your mood with willpower, or just curious about how nutrition shapes mental health, this conversation is for you. Join us as we unpack the practical steps to start, the challenges to expect, and the hope on the other side of food freedom.

Next time, we’ll break down how to implement the carnivore approach, tackle real-life obstacles, and share encouragement for your journey.

Thanks for listening. Find us on YouTube, Substack, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.

Austin Gardner:

Welcome to. Followed by Mercy and I am joined again, like yesterday, by my dear little daughter, katie, married to our son David, and we're having a good talk about the carnivore diet. I think sometimes she thinks I'm crazy asking her so many questions, but it's helped me, I think it'll help you, and so, katie, yesterday we were talking about a lot of it. I will start up with my first question for you is what did it do to your emotions and what have you seen it do to people's emotions? Go on to carnivore night.

Katie Gardner:

Well, I definitely think for me personally, it's done a lot as far as my emotions go, and I think it's so interesting how so often I think, especially as women, we have the bad rap of being like really emotional sometimes or having way out of control, uh, emotional reactions and all these things, and I think a lot of the problem is just a lot of has a lot of it has to do with what we're eating and putting in our bodies and not putting in our bodies, um, and though I believe firmly that we are responsible for the way we behave and act you know, um, we're supposed to have self-control A lot of times it just really stinks to feel really bad.

Katie Gardner:

Knowing you have to control yourself respond the right way, do what's right, but still feeling like really bad emotionally or physically.

Austin Gardner:

Sugar drives you up, yep Crashes you.

Katie Gardner:

And then it crashes you. And sugar also. High sugar, high carbohydrates sorry, I can't speak. Diets are associated with other problems in women, like PCOS. That causes weird hormonal issues also, and I don't know just infertility.

Austin Gardner:

No, doctors, don't tell us this.

Katie Gardner:

Yes, yeah, this is like a proven thing. Not everybody talks about it or agrees about how that should be treated, um, but yeah, it's a, it's a thing, and so I think for me, when I started, uh, after I got through my initial first month of just feeling really bad, I started to notice that my mood was a lot more stable.

Austin Gardner:

I felt way less irritable um, oh well, your husband attributes. He told me. He said I don't care what it costs, I got my wife back, I got my young wife back and I got my new wife and y'all been married 20 years.

Katie Gardner:

Yeah, but it's funny because for me, yeah, definitely like mood stabilizing, and you know I'm not a doctor and there are medical reasons for why this happens and how animal protein and animal fat is so beneficial for your health, your hormones, the chemicals in your body, I thought it would kill you.

Austin Gardner:

No, fat kills you, no.

Katie Gardner:

It's so good for you. And if you go on and listen to some of the people we mentioned yesterday, along with other people that you'll find in that community there's one doctor, dr Robert Kiltz, who's a fertility specialist and any he's really big in America. I think. He lives in New York, works in New York, but, um, he's really big If any of his clients will go for this instead of.

Katie Gardner:

Kiltz, k I L T Z. I think so, robert Kiltz, and, um, you know he's not a Christian or anything like that. He's kind of a funny guy but if his patients are willing, he gets them on this diet for fertility reasons and to be able to lose weight and conceive and all this stuff. So he's a really big proponent of this diet and believes in it heavily. Um, but he'll work with patients up to whatever they're willing to do, but this is his favorite way to help his patients. Um, but yeah, all this stuff affects our body the high sugar, the high amount of carbs, the low nutritional density of what we eat.

Katie Gardner:

And for me, it was massive to see and feel like I was no longer kind of getting these depressive lows. I had a very stable mood. Not only was it stable, I felt happier and that sounds really funny because feelings aren't always, you know, uh, the end all to everything we do and what we decided to do or not to do. But it was really wonderful to me just to be able to feel like a more uplifted mood and a more stable mood, and I was just happier and less things were bothering me, uh, little things weren't annoying me as much and I thought that was just unbelievable and would be totally a myth, because people would say that you know, you get into these carnivore doctors and carnivore influencers and they're all like, oh, it's magic and they're all really upbeat people and you're like this has got to be fake, right, this can't be real. But me personally, I've experienced the benefits in my moods and hormones. I believe definitely and really enjoy feeling good.

Austin Gardner:

You also have mentioned to me in our conversations like you had a list of 30 things.

Katie Gardner:

Oh yeah, Probably around 30 things-ish right around there that have improved in my health. Like I said, things I initially started it because, you know, I felt bad, I wasn't getting help from doctors, but then, as time went on, things began to improve and change that I didn't even know were an issue, I guess Cause I just lived with them for so long, Like even my mood, like just feeling like really moody for no apparent reason sometimes. You know, um, which I think a lot of people would say they really moody for no apparent reason sometimes. You know, which I think a lot of people would say, they feel moody for no apparent reason a lot of times.

Austin Gardner:

But as far as my mood, by the way, jordan Peterson's daughter said the same thing. Jordan Peterson, he makes the comment. I was in a depressed state.

Katie Gardner:

Yeah.

Austin Gardner:

Could you just tell me a little bit about that?

Katie Gardner:

I don't remember exactly what he said, but I know he dealt with depression. I've dealt with depression in my past.

Austin Gardner:

But he got over it by the carnivore diet. Yeah, I think he was depressed.

Katie Gardner:

I think Pretty regularly, it seemed like. From what?

Austin Gardner:

he talks about. Yeah, that's on the carnivore video.

Katie Gardner:

Yeah, he talks about it pretty openly, from what I understand. But yeah, um, I can relate to that because even though I didn't go around acting depressed, I could, you know you can still feel like really low or irritable or moody or I really don't want to be here right now and all that stuff. But yeah, in all, um, I've had around 30 things improve in my health as far as hormones, skin, um, moods, uh, mental clarity, sleep, like there's just so many things that I felt like each month was like there was just like a new surprise, like what's going to get better this month. You know, now, two years in, I'm pretty stable. Not a whole lot changes, but I feel really good and I've been able to maintain, for the first time in a really long time, um, a really good physical, um, just my physical body.

Katie Gardner:

Um, I've maintained weight. That's another interesting thing. Uh, sometimes I eat a whole lot on this diet, just depending on how much I'm working out or not working out or what I feel like I want to eat. Sometimes I don't need as much, but I eat more calories than I ever have and I maintain a steady weight with like no, I've never had to track or count anything. It's just so simple. You just eat, you just feed yourself, and it's interesting how your body just heals and takes care of the rest.

Austin Gardner:

So it causes kidney stones, doesn't it?

Katie Gardner:

No, I haven't had one kidney stone.

Austin Gardner:

Well, you know that a good friend of mine. When he heard it he said don't do it long. He said you'll get kidney stones.

Katie Gardner:

Yes, everyone's worried about the kidneys and the uric acid and all this stuff.

Austin Gardner:

But we're not doctors, but we know.

Katie Gardner:

And you can actually find a lot of information. I think Ken Berry specifically talks about this fear of uric acid, gout, kidneys, all this stuff on one of his podcasts. You can do a search and find out, but he addresses these things that people are really concerned about. But no, actually it does not cause kidney stones and overall it's good for kidney health.

Austin Gardner:

Well, you know, I got gout on this diet. Yes, I contacted Ken Berry, I remember, and I said to him I'm on the carnivore diet, and he said well, what else are you doing? And I said to him I'm on the carnivore diet, and he said well, what else are you doing? And I said well, I was drinking this diet tea. And he said well, stop it. Stop and what happened and my gout went away. Your gout went away. How about that? The diet tea had some kind of fake sugar.

Katie Gardner:

Yeah, yeah.

Austin Gardner:

That actually caused me to have the gout. It went away and I've not had it. I don't think people understand that or believe that.

Katie Gardner:

Yeah, no, I don't think they do. I think a big thing is everything in moderation. But I don't believe in that statement. I'm not a moderator. I think David is more able to moderate. Once I get into a bag of chips though I'm not stopping until it's gone I don't moderate well.

Katie Gardner:

So for me it was black and white, like we're either all in or all out, like I'm not dabbling. I can't dabble, so but yeah, um, I think a lot of people don't realize what happens when you're just consistently consuming and even things like that, like some people with their keto flu or whatever. We'll have these horrible symptoms, flare-ups and different things that go on as their body begins to detoxify just from the years and years of what they've put in. But if you can hang in there, you get to the other side and you begin to heal and feel better and see all the positive benefits.

Austin Gardner:

I want to drill in on this. I'm thinking about somebody that I talk to and they are always dealing with depression they're always dealing with and I've been helping them with their thinking and I've asked them to listen to Psalm 23 on the podcast here and I'm trying to help them with that. I haven't mentioned the diet to them because I was afraid they couldn't handle it, but if they listen maybe they'll hear it and they'll think about it, because what is that sugar doing? And talk to them about depression and anxiety and all of that and what part the leaders and teachers about carnivore would say.

Katie Gardner:

Well, again, they would have a better, more scientific uh information on all of that. But basically, sugar processed food, all that we all the things we eat typically are so horrible for our mental health and our brains. Our brains require fat in order to function properly, like literally require it, and they have actually found. I'm not going to go too deep into this because I'm not. I don't want to be all against vegans or whatever, but vegans brains can actually shrink for the lack of healthy, saturated fat, you just made somebody mad with it.

Katie Gardner:

I know I might have made somebody mad, but it's like it's a thing. People are doing these studies. They're finding out saturated fat is really good for your brain, brain health, protection against Alzheimer's, dementia, all these things. And now they're finding there are doctors that are using high-fat carnivore diets to treat depression, anxiety, schizophrenia. Oh goodness, what's the name of the doctor?

Katie Gardner:

There's a doctor whose book I read recently. I think his name is Chris Palmer and he talks about this, how he is kind of going into the field of looking at treating these mental disorders that a lot of even psychologists and psyche, uh, psychiatrists are having difficulty treating. You know, it's kind of a toss up Are the are the medications going to work or not? Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, and he's finding some really positive outcomes for things like schizophrenia, even, uh, personality disorders, depression, anxiety, with a high fat carnivore diet, and it is how has to do with the chemicals in the brain and how starved they are for this saturated fat and the nutrition they need in order to function well. And when you're able to get people on all this fat and this, what they would consider, you know, more appropriate human diet.

Austin Gardner:

You've pulled them off of the poison.

Katie Gardner:

Yeah.

Austin Gardner:

They don't want to admit it.

Katie Gardner:

Yeah.

Austin Gardner:

That's Snickers bar that I like so much. It's bad stuff. It's like poison. It's bad.

Katie Gardner:

Bad for the brain and so, yeah, a lot of times, uh, people's moods do change and elevate and they notice differences. And people that struggle with depression, anxiety, notice, uh, a really big difference in that and they have, you know, this is proven stuff that these doctors have looked at. They have actual patients and case studies. They're developing, you know, treatments and different things now, but again in the very early stages. But it's interesting how this diet seems to have such positive effects even on people who seem untreatable in the psychiatric realm.

Austin Gardner:

So don't forget to check out. Dr Kenberry, that's how you say it, right.

Katie Gardner:

Kenberry. Yeah, chris Palmer and Georgia Ede are two doctors that are psychiatrists, so they study this diet in reference to mental disorders and all that. They have some very interesting stuff to say. I'm not all about psychiatry and psychologists and all that. Um, that is not really my favorite field of medicine. Um, I believe strongly in you know this diet and I believe, like you said, the Word of God heals us and helps us and changes us. But I'm not 100% against these people. But in reference to this diet, they do have some really interesting scientific findings, very educated people from Harvard that are experimenting with this.

Austin Gardner:

Just because I know you read so much. What about if a person has dealt with drugs? Oh they've also found that people who I'm talking about people that have been alcoholics, drug addicts and they love God, but sin caught them, sin messed them up. They're trying to get their life straight, but the addictions go ahead.

Katie Gardner:

They have seen that with people with addictions and even eating disorders. A lot of times, when you begin giving the body and the brain what it needs to heal and function correctly, that it can even help with withdrawal symptoms and then cravings later on and this isn't a 100% across the board this definitely always works. But just from what I've listened to on podcasts with these doctors, their research and some of the things I've read, it is really interesting how something as basic as nutrition, proper nutrition can affect all these different areas of your life and body and not just like can I gain some weight or can I lose some weight? Uh, but it's all. It's all so intricate and intertwined. I feel like the human body, the way God made it, is so incredibly intertwined and complicated. You know to just take one aspect out and try to treat it, but when you feed the whole body the correct way, it begins to work in harmony again.

Austin Gardner:

It's amazing Americans like to divide us up into three blobs. We're body, spirit and soul, but we're not.

Katie Gardner:

We're all one, yeah, and it all works together.

Austin Gardner:

I'd like to real quickly add a warning to everyone listening. Of course you know you can check out all these doctors. That's where the information we would have comes from. But tell them what happens when they buy or when they go to the restaurant and they get corn they're eating corn. Or they're eating green beans and they're eating vegetables, so that's healthy. Tell're eating corn, or they're eating green beans and they're eating vegetables, so that's healthy. Tell them about that.

Katie Gardner:

So I Not everybody has a problem with vegetables. I think that there are certain vegetables that are better to eat than others, but corn is like straight up sugar Okay, it's a very starchy.

Austin Gardner:

That's the only thing I want them to notice. You show this to me you can't use a salt packet when you go to the fast food restaurant, because the second ingredient is sugar.

Katie Gardner:

Oh right, Sugar's in everything.

Austin Gardner:

Like when you buy whole kernel corn and you're eating it unless you fix it from the raw.

Katie Gardner:

Yeah, from the cob. No, it is amazing. I don't think a lot of people read labels. They just look and whatever the can or the jar or the package says, they take it for face value. But so many times when you look at packaged food anything, even things like vegetables that you think are supposed to be healthy it's amazing the things you find in there. And it's incredible to me the things that sugar is in, that sugar should not be in, and then not to mention all the things.

Austin Gardner:

Americans don't want it natural, they want it with sugar. It's easy, because we've been trained to eat sugar.

Katie Gardner:

We love sugar. Sugar's delicious. You're lying if you say sugar's not delicious. It's delicious. I love sugar, Love sugar. I probably still love sugar if we're honest.

Austin Gardner:

I just don to eat it again. I'd love it yeah.

Katie Gardner:

If I knew it wouldn't hurt me, I'd eat it Absolutely. But now I'm kind of afraid of it. But it's in everything. If you ever pick up, if you're ever curious like what am I actually eating? You know we're so consumed with calories. I don't even think calories are that big of a deal.

Katie Gardner:

Calories are like to measure, um, what we're consuming and if it's adequate or not, because we're not a closed system. Um, there's a lot that happens when we consume, consume food, you know, with the neurons and cells and everything going on in our body, and so more important than calories, or what are you actually putting in there? Um, I, I always, you know, try to track calories, keep track of my calories, to no avail. I never had much success with that. I could go really low calorie and maybe lose a little weight if I wanted to lose some weight, but never had much success. But it's interesting when you realize it's not so much about the calories, it's what's in the content. What are you putting in there? And if you go to the store sometime and want to be surprised, pick up a can or a jar of something you think is supposed to be fairly healthy, or a package and read what's in there and it might surprise you, like the amount of things you can't even understand, like what is this?

Katie Gardner:

And then good old sugar is always in there, so it's wild, it's unbelievable.

Austin Gardner:

And's a lot of words that are used for sugar.

Katie Gardner:

Oh yeah.

Austin Gardner:

Like dextrose is in the salt.

Katie Gardner:

Yeah.

Austin Gardner:

If you go to the restaurant, salt has dextrose. It's tasty. You're the one who taught me almost everything I know.

Katie Gardner:

Oh yeah, if you read labels it's scary. I don't even know what's going on out there. It's like the Wild West in the labeling department.

Austin Gardner:

So you've seen it with emotion, you've seen it with drugs and alcohol, and what we've read about We've not personally experienced any of that. So how does all that affect your spiritual life?

Katie Gardner:

I think, even so, certain principles remain right. We're, we're supposed to grow in our relationship with God, know God, be consistent in our Bible reading and all these things. But I will say, um, I feel like a more overall, a more joyful person, and my God isn't food or a diet, that's not what defines me, but I do think, uh, I am very thankful to God that, for whatever reason he let me stumble across this personally I feel like it's been a huge blessing from him in my life. Uh, I believe it works and I believe it's a wonderful thing, and I feel like, in a lot of ways, it's freed me to enjoy a lot more things in my life and not see certain things as just a duty. But, um, it's a joy to be able to live, to be able to know God, and the thing is when you physically feel horrible, when your emotions are a wreck.

Austin Gardner:

Yeah, you know I've dealt with. I deal with quite a bit of that because I don't have adrenal glands and all the other junk that's happened to me. But all of that affects your spiritual life, because if you're feeling pretty bad, it's a battle.

Katie Gardner:

It's a. It's a constant battle.

Austin Gardner:

It's not near the battle when your body's doing decent.

Katie Gardner:

You're doing war against your thoughts, against what you're feeling, and so, yeah, I don't know. I think for me I'm definitely lighter, not to say I don't ever struggle with my thought life, or problems or personal things, but I feel more capable of handling it for sure how long do you sleep at night? It depends. I like me a good eight hours of sleep, but even if I don't like Did you?

Austin Gardner:

Now? I know you had some sleep disorders.

Katie Gardner:

Oh yeah, I've had sleep disorders.

Austin Gardner:

Well, let's talk about that just a little bit. I'm not asking for details.

Katie Gardner:

Aside from the sleep disorders, the insomnia is what it was. To be specific, I'll I'll talk about in a second, but just on a regular day I could sleep eight or nine hours, wake up and still be like, have the groggy, tired, draggy, like why am I tired? I just slept nine hours. What's wrong with me? I think I want to go back to bed, like that was very common for me.

Katie Gardner:

And, yes, in the past I have dealt with insomnia, racing thoughts, um, during that time I had some panic attacks, obviously, anxiety, all that type of stuff. And so, you know, since, uh, the two years that I have been eating this way, I have, you know, not struggled near with the anxiety. I feel like I'm kind of prone to anxiety, depression type of stuff. It I have it in my family as well and I feel like I I'm, I tend toward that, which isn't a good thing, um, but I feel like it's been relieved and alleviated so much since changing my diet two years ago. I haven't had near the issues that I used to have and the battles that I used to have on a regular basis, I feel like personally. So it's been a huge blessing.

Austin Gardner:

I will talk more about that on our next podcast, and so I hope you'll come and join us tomorrow and we'll finish up our whole series here. On the carnivore diet, I want you to know it's made a tremendous difference in my life. I think the carnivore diet, plus Psalm 23, probably have done more for me than anything, and so I want to talk about how difficult it is to do this, how to make the change and all that. We'll talk about it next time, so you join us as we get together the next time here on Followed by Mercy.

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