The Shoney’s Intervention: MRIs, Mercy Seats, and a 52-Year Masterclass in Grace

What happens when your best friends stage an intervention at a Shoney’s to tell you that you’re being too mean to your fiancée? For W. Austin Gardner, that conversation 52 years ago was the start of a lifetime spent learning that "man-ing up" has everything to do with tenderness and nothing to do with toughness.

In this candid and soul-stirring session, Austin pulls back the curtain on his 52-year marriage to Betty, his ongoing battle with stage four cancer, and the hard-won wisdom of raising a family in the spotlight of ministry.

In this detailed episode, you will explore:

• The Shoney’s "Cry" Incident: The hilarious but humbling story of how Austin learned to stop treating his wife like a "project" and started treating her like a companion.
• The MRI of the Law vs. The Mercy Seat: Austin uses his own medical journey—the cold, loud 45-minute scans—to explain the Bible. The Law is the scan that identifies the "cancer" of sin, but only Grace can heal it. Discover why God doesn't speak to you from the "law book," but from the Mercy Seat.
• Love is Sacrifice, Not a Scorecard: Why keeping receipts in a marriage is the quickest way to kill intimacy. Austin breaks down why the strongest marriages are built on faithfulness, not "fairness."
• The "Johnson Grass" of Bitterness: A lesson from a Tennessee cornfield on why you can’t just "mow down" your anger—you have to pull it up by the roots and let the sun of God’s grace bake it.
• Raising Kids in Ministry (The 1-2-3-4 Rule): Austin shares his non-negotiable priority list for staying sane in leadership: 1. God, 2. Wife, 3. Kids, 4. The Church. Learn how he raised four children who still love the Lord and the local church today.
• The Lifter of Your Head: A moving reflection on Psalm 3:3. When life (or sin) makes you want to hang your head in shame, learn how God reaches under your chin to look you "eye-to-eye and cheek-to-cheek."
• Legacy & Mortality: Facing a "terminal" diagnosis with a witty heart, Austin reflects on the only thing that matters in the end: Will he be remembered as a "grumpy old man" or a "tender-hearted daddy"?

Key Verse: "But thou, O Lord, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head." (Psalm 3:3)

The Takeaway: You are a "walking house of Jesus." Your life is the primary place where the world sees how God loves His people. Stop making excuses, pull up the bitterness, and start chasing your spouse like Christ chased you.

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Transcript

The Shoney’s Intervention Story

Austin Gardner 0:27

restaurant back then and and I don't know if you ever heard of Shoney's. But he went that so they said Shoney's and they had an intervention. We weren't married yet. And uh they said you make her cry too much.

SPEAKER_05 0:40

Why are you so mean to her? I said, I'm not mean to Betty.

Austin Gardner 0:45

I mean I we're friends. We I like her. And they said you make her cry too much and you're going to apologize. There's three of them. I said I'm sorry. And they said we want you to apologize to her. I will. I didn't know I was doing it wrong. They said if you want to be a good Christian, you want to be a pastor, you need to learn how to treat her. I thought I treated her pretty good. So I go to her and I apologize. We've been married about six months. Those three guys called me and they said we won't meet with you at Shoney's. I said oh brother. I said you're going to do it again? And when I came to her they said okay you're right you won't make her cry. She just cries all the time and some of my friends would actually come to my house and walk in the door and they'd say the room's dirty and Betty start crying and they go five seconds I got her cry five seconds that's all that's so then became the joke who can make Betty cry quickest. Because they found out she just cries all the time. She cries when she's happy cries when she's sad she just cries.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

Sorry Pastor I'll shut up one thing Brother don't realize is he can sit here he can do whatever he wants how he wants it doesn't matter because this is really this man is one of my heroes and I'll never tell him hey it's time to I'll never do I'll never ever ever ever uh do anything share that for you or to you but uh that being said uh the floor is yours we're like I said we're we're doing these split sessions so that we have more uh more direct uh teaching for each and uh miss Benji's got the what's not looking at a beautiful woman sitting in there and she is uh she is gonna straighten them ladies out for y'all now hey she might have them uh ready to straighten us out I think she is the best woman I have ever in my life no I've never known anybody like her and I don't know how long we're gonna talk on this how what we're gonna do here.

Ephesians 5:25 And Forgiveness

Austin Gardner 2:43

Well you got as much time as you want I guess I got a way to let uh way that woman in there shuts up right you're gonna talk over and it looks to me like they're doing a well I think Betty wanted her to read but Betty is very uncomfortable. She is now she is much a people person. My family makes fun of her. My children are grown my my my oldest son's 50 my youngest son's 40 and I got two daughters between them and so she'll go to Costco or she'll go to Walmart or Coles and she'd be gone forever and she comes in she only bought two things, three things. And they say do they know that you're a missionary you used to be in Peru they know I was born in Rome they and because Betty was now when she walks up to the clerk she's gonna have a discussion with the clerk. When I married her she wouldn't talk to anybody but once she started talking she don't quit I don't want to preach at you or anything I'd just like to chew the fat with you and uh I won't mind if you want to interrupt me or ask a question or discuss it. But I would like to go back to Ephesians 525. You don't have to take notes I'm not asking for you that but when I say husbands love your wives like Christ loved the church or not when I say that's what the Bible says probably the first thing that would come to my mind that we have got to work on is forgiveness. And that's what he did. He forgave us and what does it mean to forgive you know you know he he the Bible says he doesn't remember our sins. Yeah that it doesn't say he forgot our sins because he doesn't forget he's God he doesn't he don't make mistakes it ain't like I was forgot that but it's like he says I choose not to remember that about you I choose not to remember that forgiveness means I release you I release you I let it go fact is you'll hear wow when the word for forget is the same root as divorce in a divorce what do you do? Put away what does God do with your sin? Put away that's a wild thought isn't it that's what God does. Did you know that uh he I would tell you that you all remember more about each other on the negative side than he does. Because he chose not to remember and there's I I just like to mention two or two or three of those things about it that I think are really nice I'll bring it to marriage. One in Colossians chapter one he says that he nailed it to the cross he says he blotted it out and he says he says in that passage of scripture he is triumphing over principalities over rulers over dignitaries Satan sin and all that junk that's ruined our lives he has whipped it and separated it from us and nailed it to the tree. And so whenever you and I uh whenever he whenever he thinks of Austin and Austin has done way more than enough to go to hell and fail God way more he looks at me and says I put all that onto the cross on the cross under my blood.

SPEAKER_04 5:57

It's good.

Austin Gardner 5:58

It's off the record I release I release I divorce I get rid of it's gone. Then another one in Psalms he says I separate your sin as far as east is from the west now I know you know all this but you know you realize that if he just said north and south that's a definite difference.

SPEAKER_05 6:18

Right.

Austin Gardner 6:19

But east and west is there's no different distance fact is right now from y'all would say the east of you is but in Georgia we we consider y'all y'all the west of us and when we're in the east east is Georgia that's the ocean. In the ocean yep yeah and and you know if you're standing in Utah and go east as far as you can go you can get all the way the other side of the world from here whatever the exact spot would be but you can't get any that's how far away he's separated. And what I like about that is when when I I think about that when he looks at you your sin he put it right back there. And so when he looks at you he don't look at you and say I know what you did. He doesn't even think of that what he thinks of you. He put that back there and it's it's forgiven.

unknown 7:08

That's good.

Sand In The Bed Conflicts

Man Up And Pursue Again

Kindness And Tenderhearted Marriage

Austin Gardner 7:09

And he says well I look at you I don't look at your sin I look at your past can we talk just a second about marriage. Now I don't know how far along my 52 years is compared to yours because there's like they told you the guy our church he just thought that was so cute that I've been married 50 years. And most everybody's like wow but that guy and he's the sweetest the sweetest you'd never meet a sweeter man but he just goes that's cute. But over the years you're gonna have little run-ins and a lot of times what I like to remind people is it's that it's like little grains of sand in the bed. Betty and I don't have any big rocks I mean really she has never been with anybody else I've never been with anybody else we've only been with each other. I mean it's just us. We've never actually spent a night apart over a fight. No, we have slept in the same bed, mad and mad as mad as we could be at each other. I gave her the cold back not the cold shoulder I'm I turned in that bed I used to weigh 300 pounds about it and I'd bounce and I'd she'd be over and and I'd I just wanted her to know I was still mad. I didn't say a word hey I didn't say a word. I didn't yell at her I didn't fuss at her and she goes she goes sometimes in those fights she'd say goodnight I go I'm just saying I could be a horse's rear. You know what I mean? But see those are little sand things and if we don't get rid of those we don't forgive if we don't release that we hold on to it it adds up and it becomes it it uh you can turn a mole hill Tennessee Hill Billy but you can turn a molehill into a mountain if you're not careful. So forgiveness is forgiveness is who we are it's what we do and and we do that because that's how Jesus does he for he forgives us and he continues to forgive us. Let me just I think this is very likely true about most of you I'm guessing but I sinned more since I trusted Christ than I did before I trusted Christ. I was seven years old almost eight when I got saved. I mean I was a wicked fellow but let's be honest I was a wicked wicked fellow what did I do disobey my mama? I mean what that's seven I mean I don't I smoking dope and shooting up heroin I was seven and and so here you know Christ forgives us when we get saved but he keeps on forgiving. That's right and and that's I think the biggest lesson for all of us is that we forgive. Now forgiving doesn't mean that what they did was okay. Forgiving doesn't mean that you necessarily don't talk about it and say we need to bring this up fix it and and move on but forgiveness is I don't lay any blame. Yeah forgiveness I don't lay any blame I release you I divorce it from you I know a uh I know a a a woman who ran away from home horribly embarrassed her family and she just was still living at home and messed up and did some really bad stuff but you know what forgiveness does don't you let her come home never brings it up never brings it up that's not who she is and that's what we got to do in marriage. I've got to constantly be forgiving. Now let me just say this sometimes married people aren't on the same page sometimes we read the same book. Yeah I mean something we ain't on the same planet you know we we can be married and we're not doing it but I'd like to remind you that you are men. And I don't mean to be ugly when I say this, but man up. You know what happened? Betty didn't want to be with me. She didn't like me. She's I'm I'm I'm what in Tennessee I'm a redneck country boy. I literally did grow up milking cows every morning and every night by hand. I used an outhouse till I was in the 10th grade our house had four rooms in it and so the kitchen dining room was in this little bitty room and then the living room was a bedroom and a living room and there was another bedroom and then there was a kind of a lean to room on the back where I slept tin roof and no no inside. So when the rain came it often leaked through the snow came through my brother tell you horror stories he's younger than me but and and uh my daddy met my wife he loved her it didn't I mean within two hours and he never quit loving he always thought Betty was the best woman ever walked which I agree with but when he pulled up and saw her home Betty grew up and her daddy was a Texaco oil executive office man. Betty's bedroom was as big as half of our house she had a walk-in closet we didn't have a closet she had a walk-in bathroom and my daddy said oh I I I've I made a big mistake he said you'll never be able to afford this woman so getting married you know to her was was uh something beyond me and and I I I just want you to know that she decided to love me and you decide to love your spouse I had to win Betty when I say we're men I I don't know if you without joking around I think most of us had to pursue our wives. Betty was not an easy catch. I went to ask Betty on a date I did not know it at the time but she went on a date because she liked it was a double date and she liked the other guy. So the other guy Jurgen Bailey and Sally who later got married and Austin and Betty and Betty went because she liked Jurgen so I'm the third nothing and I put my arm around her that night and tried to you know be romantic. I was hoping for a kiss she was like a block of ice she wrote her mother and said I had a date with this guy but he's a redneck. I mean I I told her I loved her and she said I love you like a brother I mean but you know what I've been married to her for two years because I don't care what she said I fixed it. When I married her I wore shirts that were striped down this way my pants were striped that away I didn't know I'm a country boy I'm a redneck country boy. I didn't know how clothes went together. She said I was a walking illusion optical illusion but I but I kept going after her so you could tell me my wife and I aren't on the same page and I'd say well man up you can win we did. Most of us not all of you some of you your wife chased you but me I had to chase Betty I had to chase Betty I had to win Betty I had to earn Betty and you know what I still have to do that. So now here I am 71 years old man I messed something up here boy uh I um I I I uh I I I still have to I still have to chase her. I have to work I mean not mean this in any way negative but you know I don't have all the drive I had I'm 71 years old I have lost a testicle to cancer I've lost my adrenal glands I've lost a kidney so it ain't like I feel all that romantic but I have to work at it it's my job I'm the initiator I'm the provider and so I would like to say to you in your family if you if you have any thoughts of well she needs to change well that's not how it works because Jesus never says we got to change he just says accept my gift he never says if you'll change this I'll save you that's not what he says he says a free gift. Do I have to change? No I said it's a free gift. And then he says now I want you to love Betty like I love you. So you don't have any excuse to blame it on Betty or your wife we don't have any excuse we don't have any excuse to do that. Now I was read a couple more verses uh and uh uh what when we love like Jesus he says in Colossians 3 13 forbearing one another and forgiving one another if any man have a quarrel against it even as Christ forgave you so also do ye. Now that's Colossians 3 13 uh now let's say this first it says forbearing now that's an old King James word that we we don't use. So let me put it in Tennessee Hillbelly putting up with that's what forbearing means you you realize if you have a good if you have a good church you're gonna have different cultural backgrounds different ethnic backgrounds you have young you have old you have everything's different and if we were all exactly the same we probably couldn't get along either but we won't be the same. So we learn how to put up with each other. It's like you do that in your family. You got that uncle that's a little weird I mean the one that wants you to pull his finger and he's gonna pass gas you know what I'm talking about. We've all got that and we put up with each other because we're family you put up with it. She's always in a bad mood at Thanksgiving that's the way it is just don't worry about it. She'll be all right. Because we're putting up with because that's what you do when you love family. We got to put up with our wife. We got to put up you can say well you don't understand you're you're asking me to fix things here and you want me to be like Jesus but she ain't nothing like Jesus. Well Jesus didn't ask you to be like Jesus to get him now you're gonna turn into being like Jesus but it's not going to be because you worked at it. It's gonna be because you relaxed in his love and slowly you became like him Jesus doesn't save you I'll save you but you're there's 10 things you and if you don't do them I'll kick your rear out of here. He doesn't do that to us. He doesn't do that to us. And you know what will happen? Slowly the fruit of the Spirit just begins to come out of us because it's a natural thing that cometh out of a Christian. So it's as a I want you to forbear. And then he said and forgive as Christ forgave you. Now how in the world do you forgive how has Christ forgiven me? His patience knows no end. I raised four children my wife and I raised four children. Oldest son is 50 my kids all get together and they talk about which one's a good one and which ones are the bad ones. Of course every one of them said they are and the others aren't, you know? And especially mom and there she'll go, well But you you you know you you realize you forgive and my kids weren't perfect. They did a lot of juck wrong I ain't never walked away from them I ain't gonna walk away from and I'm gonna forgive like Christ and he ain't gonna walk away from you. How did he forgive you? How did he forgive you? How did he love you? How did he forgive you when you weren't even asking so tonight we're all here going well we love Jesus but you hadn't always been like that. So forgive as he has forgiven you. In verse Ephesians 4 32 when you're doing like Christ and you're forgiving like Christ he said be ye kind one to another tenderhearted forgiving one another as Christ for God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Now I I'd like to just a couple of words for marriage um kind. I don't think that's a word that we use as much as we ought to in marriage actually the word kind is a word that describes God. God is kind He is gentle and kind to us when we don't deserve it he is kind to us it's his kindness and we're to be kind and and in Ephesians 4 33 he's talking about how ought to be to you I ought to be kind to you I ought to be generous to you I ought to be loving to you I ought to be helpful to you I ought to be kind we all know what that means. How about we do that in marriage how about just thinking because because here's what happens my mother used to say we're we're the ugliest to the ones we love the most now that's a bad thing to say but it's pretty true isn't it you you'd never treat the pastor's wife like you treat your wife come on you'd be kind to the other fellow's wife at church you'd open no door you'd give up the seat you'd be kind kind but not to your wife now I I don't need to know anything about anybody here but that's a Bible verse. Yeah be kind be kind and then you said this is ridiculous. It's in the Bible so you can't say anything about it.

SPEAKER_05 20:09

He said be tenderhearted Yeah tender hearted that's more womany than we want to be you know what I mean.

Austin Gardner 20:22

I mean uh the woman runs and rescues and the husband's like he'll be all right throw some throw some iodine on it he'll be all right throw some Mercurial on it he'll be all right but the wife she's tenderhearted but he's telling us to be tenderhearted with each other we ought to be tenderhearted with our wife which is compassionate which is feeling now I'm not trying to be ugly I'm not trying to preach strong I'm just trying to tell you sometimes you see the way a man treats his wife, another man treats his wife and you're like that ain't right but if you look in a mirror may look a lot like you because it's easy I could easily see your faults. They I mean they're glaring buddy they're just right out here where I can see them. Come on are you with me? Yeah I don't see mine too good and I'm not sure how some of us are we're we're built we're built different. I grew up in a masculine man home. My daddy was an animal I mean when I was like three or four years old he cut a he's chopping a limb with an axe and he splits his right foot and it's literally parted open. He walks back to the house filling up his boots with blood tells my mother we've got to go to the hospital I've cut myself he drives she says let me drive because you're gonna pass out because blood is flying out he said shut up and get in your seat. He drove her when he got to the doctor said we're gonna put you under and fix that foot he said I don't want you to put me under no leg I'd like to watch the guy's an animal I mean he just but you know what you know what being so tough made you know he wasn't very tender hearted. I mean I grew up he never told me he loved me he loved me I didn't know that it took me years to figure out he loved me. I really thought he didn't love me

SPEAKER_00 22:26

You're talking about my dad. No, the tough part. The party never told me that truth. Uh but I never doubted it for a second.

Stop Reliving The Hurt

Austin Gardner 22:32

Well, you idea. I thought my daddy didn't love me. I'd come in, I'd come in and I'd make a hundred, and he would he'd almost be mad at me. He said, Well, why don't you make a hundred all the time? And I'd come in with a 99. He said, What were you what were you blowing it for? You didn't get a hundred. I could never do anything. He just wasn't tender. He was getting old, he's probably my age. We were riding down that, going to a dairy where he's from, and my daddy's in the he's in heaven now. And I've now learned how my youthful, I didn't understand my daddy's. He had his way of loving, which wasn't my way of loving. But we were riding down the road and he said, uh, son, I had, I don't know if you've I've told you that, but I love you. I mean, I was sitting over in the passenger seat, and he was, mmm, mm-mm. He drove getting old and it was showing. And he says, I love you. I literally thought, who had took over my daddy's body. And he says, he teared up and started about to cry. He says, I hope you know it. And he said, son, you can never tell anybody I said this. He said, because I'm crying and men don't cry. And don't ever tell anybody, I told you I love you, because that's not manly. Now, you and I'll go, Yeah, well, yeah, that's him old timers. But are you like that with your wife? I hope not. You know, it ought to be, it ought to be a consistent, tender-hearted watcher. Watch her when she's sitting down. What does she need? Getting up, what does she need? What kind words does she need? What uh what uh tenderhearted, that's that's just the the the Bible one, and and and forgive as Christ has forgiven you. And remove all the doubt about, remove all the doubt about uh you don't remember what she did wrong. Now, biblically, I've had people tell me, oh, I can't forget it. But biblically, God doesn't want you to forget it. He knows you can't forget it. He doesn't forget it. What he does is he chooses what to remember. He chooses what to remember. In fact, there's a beautiful thing I've been studying and working on lately is uh the Lord's Supper. You know, we're to do this in remembrance. And actually, the Bible way of explaining that is remembering means you stop, you go back and you get it, you bring it into the present, and you act this out so that you're living the past now. That's what remembering is. But what we tend to do, and uh, and that's beautiful, by the way, because he died for us. And when we take the Lord's Supper, we need to take it more seriously. It needs to be I'm reliving it. Old Testament people were really Jewish people, they're pretty crazy about that, you know? They used to live in booth tents for like five days. Why? Because they did when they were in the wilderness. And and what God said, I don't want you to forget what it was like. So set up a booth and live in a booth for a week. Do it and relive it. Well, here's what we do we relive the hurt. We, and the devil plays this game with your heart. That's why you're not on the same page. The devil plays this game where he says, You remember when she remember? And he says, relive it. And we sit here and we relive it and we play it again. And here's the sad thing: every time we relive it, we add to the story. And we make the story worse. And by the time it's over, she's a wicked witch of the west. But that's not what he wants. He wants you to not remember the offense and remember the sacrifice. Uh and and uh, you know, Betty and I've been married a long time. I can remember a lot of things that she could have done differently. But I could tell you this: if I choose to remember the right thing, we're romantically loving each other and kind to each other because I choose to remember the right thing. Paul said, forgetting those things which are behind and pressing forward. So uh I ask you to remove the transgressions as far as the east is from the west. Uh, okay. I don't know how how long do I want to go?

SPEAKER_04 26:49

But do you want you're you're as long as you meet uh if you want to match them, whatever.

Sin Off The Table

Austin Gardner 26:55

Okay, I'll try to match them. How about this one? Uh you're not gonna believe this verse, but it's all Bible. Second Corinthians chapter 5, verse 19. And I'm gonna read it to you. 2 Corinthians chapter 5 and verse 19.

SPEAKER_05 27:13

Uh make sure I got it right here.

Austin Gardner 27:18

To wit uh that God was in Christ, reconciling the world, the world, that's a lost world, unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Do you know what God did? God took all the sins of the world off the table. And now when he looks at a lost guy, if he looks at a Buddhist, if he looks at a Hindu, he said, it's all taken care of. I on the cross I said, it's finished, it's finished, taken care of. In fact, is Timothy, I believe, is I'd have to make sure we're my verses, he's a savior of the world, especially those that believe. He's already the savior of everybody. I mean, it's all bought, it's all paid for, it's all done. They just need to receive the gift because he took the sin off the table. So when he looks at us, there's no sin. He took it all off the table. You know, he understand, he remembers nothing negative about you. Philippians, Psalm chapter three. I'm gonna say verse three. You can look this up later. The Bible calls it the lifter of my head. He's the lifter of my head. In Psalm 23, he anoints my head with oil. It's the same truth. When you sin and you fail, is it Philip? Is it Psalm 33? Would you read it?

SPEAKER_04 28:49

But thou, O Lord, art a shield for me, my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.

Loved Like The Father Loves Jesus

Austin Gardner 28:55

So when you failed, and Psalm 3.3, David has uh his Absalom, his son, is about to kill him. Absalom has slept with his ten wives. Absalom and the army are coming to kill David. He's been culture, counsel cultured. Nobody loves him, everybody hates him. He's he's about to die. He's ashamed. It was an honor, shame, uh, culture that they lived in. And so what do you do when you're shamed? And what do you do when you've sinned? That's right. He comes and he reaches under your chin, he pulls it up, says, Look at me, eyeball to eyeball, cheek to cheek, face to face. It's all taken care of. It's finished. I paid it all. You say, Well, what about what about when I committed adultery? He goes, I took care of it. I'm the lifter of your head. I'm the anointer of your head. Now, so what what I need, my wife needs desperately to have somebody lift their head in our marriage. Now, the Lord's already lifted all of our heads. We I didn't understand, I'd be honest. I haven't understood that until recently. I'm an old man finding new stuff every day. It's like the this book is like, I don't care how much you've studied it, it's like, I study the Lord, and I'm like, that what that has not been in opening. My grandmama used to say, my old grandmama in Tennessee, country, she said, we read that Bible through every year. And she said, and he keeps adding new stuff. That's what my grandma, because my granddad would read it through. But how how much are we helping our wives need us? They need to know that we hold nothing against them. They need to hear it. And what we're tend to we tend to be is like, well, you know, she's the one that's been griping, she's the one that's been whining, she's the one that's been bellyaching, she's one that did this, she's the one that did that. She's not showing any affection. She's not, she's not, she's not. And and if you think about it, Jesus could easily say that about all of us. But he doesn't. Instead, he says, I paid all your debt, all your debt. You know, everything you ever did wrong, everything you're gonna do wrong, I took care of it all. I d I've taken sin off the table. I have reconciled you to me, and I just accept the reconciliation. Now here's what God says tells me to love my wife like he loves me. I I've walked into so many rooms feeling like I didn't belong and I wasn't good enough. It's always kinda in my mind. I'm a fat Tennessee country boy. Maybe I'm not good enough. You know what? But when I start realizing whose son I am, do you know who you are? Did you know that you guys are God's favorite? This is off topic a little bit, but John 17, 23. Jesus is praying to the Father and he says, God help them to know that you love them like you love me.

SPEAKER_05 31:44

He loves you the same way he loves Jesus.

Austin Gardner 31:49

I understand him loving Jesus. That makes perfect sense. But I grew up with I don't sure that he likes me that much. I I I don't read my Bible every day sometimes. Sometimes I don't pray like I'm supposed to. I don't share the gospel like I'm supposed to. He's probably disappointed in me. When I was reading, you know, when when he when he when he uh uh Jesus is getting ready to get baptized, God has like an emotional outburst and he splits heavens and he yells and says, That's my boy. Yeah, he's my beloved, and I am well pleased. And I didn't catch this till just the other day, brother. He had yet to heal one person. He hadn't fed anybody, he hadn't raised any dead, he hadn't preached any sermons, he'd been a carpenter, a carpenter. And father goes, that's my boy.

SPEAKER_05 32:50

And he said, Jesus says, Daddy, tell him, tell all them men you love them like you love me. You realize you're loved.

unknown 33:02

Yeah.

Law, Mercy Seat, And Grace

Austin Gardner 33:04

And it's hard to love till you know you loved. It's hard to love till you know you're loved. But we're loved by our father, and it doesn't really matter what anybody else says. We're loved, and it's always, and by the way, uh see, my wife cannot teach. You see what I'm talking about? She ain't quitting. So I got tongues. I can keep going, but I just would like to bring to your mind. We've been going for 36 minutes. She's still in there going to it. She's a beautiful preacher, ain't she? Teasing, teasing. Do you realize? Can I can I show y'all a couple of things that I don't have the verses on this, so I'm gonna throw it at you. You know, when he gave the law in the Old Testament, he never expected you to keep the law. Right. He knew you couldn't keep the law. He wanted to use the law to send you to the sacrifice.

SPEAKER_05 33:54

That's right.

Legacy, Aging, And Being Gentle

Prayer And Open Questions

Austin Gardner 33:55

The lamb in the Old Testament. Right? The law is a lot like the uh like I look, I think right now I look pretty healthy. You're probably looking at me and saying, that guy says he's got cancer. Uh I've had people tell me, I don't believe you got cancer. I said, Well, I wish my scans agreed with you. Uh and so I go in to the law office of C of uh of C uh M MR MRI and CAT scan. I go in about every three months. They get they know me now. I've been going for years. How you doing? Look like you lost a little weight since the last time. Well, thank you very much. Are you doing good? I'm doing good. And then they say, climb in there. And they it goes on for 45 minutes to an hour. They just make it all this raggoting. And I leave there, and then I get to meet with a doctor, and the doctor says, You didn't measure up to the law. And that's what's what the law was for. So in the Old Testament, when he built the ark, you don't pay attention to this. I can show you the verse later. He built the ark and he put the law in the ark. And above the lark, he built the mercy seat, the mercy seat. And above the mercy seat, he put two angels looking at the mercy seat. And then he said, When I talk to you, I'll talk to you from the mercy seat. Does that not do anything for y'all? He doesn't talk to me from the law book. Because you know what? It's not that encouraging when a doctor looks at you and says, You got cancer, buddy. You don't measure up. I didn't what I need to hear. I need I need to hear. We're gonna cut you, we're gonna radiate you, we're gonna do whatever we gotta do, we're gonna get rid of this cancer. And that's what the law does. The law says to go see the doctor who can help you. There was an old preacher named Lester Roloff years and years ago. Lester Oloff said the law opens you up on the table, looks in, goes, Oh boy, he's a goner. Sew him back up, send him home, he's dead. When he steps out in the office, Grace tag teams and says, Let me in there. And Gray comes in and opens you back up and heals you. So how are we going to handle our marriage? You are God's touch point to the world right here. Everywhere you go, he's living in you. And I think one of the most powerful truths in my mind is this: I'm crucified with Christ. Nevertheless, I live. Yet not I. Listen to this. But Christ lives in me. Christ lives in me. And the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God. It says, I'm dead, but I'm not dead because Christ is living in me. So literally, and don't take this as sacrilegious or anything, but I'm his hands and his voice and his eyes and his arms to hug people. Because he lives in me. He lives in all of us and every one of us. You are walking houses of Jesus among, you know that. You're the temple of the Holy Ghost. He lives in you. So marriage is our place to show the world how God loves people and the church. And my dad grew up rough and tough. And I didn't know he loved me, but he did. But I I want to decide this before I die. I think about this all the time. When you know you're dying, when they tell you a year ago, I was pretty sure it was going to be that in my month, that I've I started some new medicines and I'm doing much better. But I I think to myself, are they gonna remember me as a loving, gentle, tenderhearted, kind daddy? Or that grumpy old man. You know, you know what I'm talking about. Come on, let's be honest. I'm an old man now, I can say it. I don't want to be that guy. I I I I want how's Betty gonna remember me? She wanna say, boy, he he was forgiving, patient, tender. How my grandkids are gonna remember me. How they're gonna remember me. Because I'm in in my life, in my line of work, and who I am right now with the cancer, I mean I could have a couple three years to go because I seem to be in this weird arrest stage. But you ought to you you don't you might die before I do. So let's work on being who we're supposed to be. So I could sit up here and I'll answer questions, I'll talk to you about anything you want to talk about. But I just want to say to you, husbands love your wives like Christ loves the church. Don't make excuses. He doesn't make excuses. He chased us into bars, he chased us into whorehouses, he chased us into pride and anger. He did. He chased us and he got us, he found us wherever we were. And by the way, not one of those sins was any worse than the other one. And he came and he got us and he loved us. And he turns and he says, Love her like that. Let me have a word of prayer with you. If you want to ask questions, chew the fat or close her down. Yeah, y'all. Because I have no idea what Betty's gonna do.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

I I would say as as long as they're in there talking, uh if y'all have any questions, uh, anything you'd like to ask him, and you don't mind if I say this. No, I don't mind uh whether it's gonna be with us tomorrow, but if you have anything you'd like to ask him, even if it don't have to do with the marriage thing, uh I think you should be happy with it.

SPEAKER_05 39:13

Anything you wanna talk about.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Except I'm not real good about sports, so uh pastor does.

Raising Kids In Ministry

SPEAKER_04 39:22

I'll say uh I'll ask because this is kind of where I'm at. Um but as far as raising raising kids in the ministry. Um and I'm I'm asking this knowing hearing you hearing you teach on it before. And as I've told you already, like I almost almost live by your notes, you know, sometimes in certain situations uh of being in class under you and stuff, but uh a new perspective, you know, that maybe the things that you've said you've looked back on now. Um raising kids in the ministry. How do you teeter in that not because you got four kids serving in ministry?

Austin Gardner 40:10

And how do you keep them from being resentful or even uh just burn out I think when we raise our kids, and let me just say, you know, your number one responsibility is not the church, it's God. And number two is your wife, and number three is your children, grandchildren, and number four is the work, the church. Now, I think if they're all lined up, they'll all be kind of mixed up, you know? Here's what I would say that every one of us this is this has the I'm gonna give you three little statements here. This has really driven my life lately. When you read the Bible, when you think about anything, think of these three truths, and they're all Bible, you can't deny them. God is love. So anytime you read the Bible, anything that's going on in the Bible, you either don't understand it or you find the love. Because God is love. He's not sometimes love. He is love. The Bible says flat out, God is love. That means love is God. And so I look at everything through God is love. Like I got cancer. I don't think God wants me to have cancer. I know what you'd say. You'd say, well, God gave it to you. No, I don't think that. I live in a damned world, a sinful world that's cursed.

SPEAKER_06 41:28

Yeah.

Austin Gardner 41:29

And God says, I'm going to help you out through that mess. I never wanted this. Y'all walked out of the garden. I didn't walk out, y'all did. And so God's not mad at me or you and all the junk that's going on. That's not God. He's love. Number two, he is good. Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good.

unknown 41:46

Yeah.

Austin Gardner 41:46

Blessed is a man that trusts in thee. So I know he's good and he's love. And number three, every time you want to know what God thinks, looks like, or acts like, look at Jesus. Jesus told Philip in John 14, he said, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. And it and Philip said, I just won't see the Father. He said, How can you been with me so long and not figuring it out? Because we tend to think of God as a little bit angry, resentful, judge. We don't think of him as daddy. Gotta throw something beautiful at it. It has to do with being, it has it, it has to do with the question. In the Old Testament, there's only like three to five times that God is anywhere remotely called Father. He's called sovereign, he's called God, he's called Almighty, but he's not Father. And Jesus comes to the ground here, comes to earth, becomes one of us. Let me teach you how to pray. And he says something that made Jews pass out. He said, pray this, our father. Our father, which art in heaven. Our father. All of a sudden now Jesus has said, call him father. And then you go just a little bit further, and he's given us a spirit of Abba Father, which is daddy father. And in a lot of ways, I looked at God more like my what I thought my dad was. I was wrong, not him. My dad could have done better, but my dad was an orphan at six. He he raised on the street. He was, he lived, my daddy was beaten to blood, filled his shoes up. My daddy was shipped from one family to another. And when he finally he got saved when he was 25, my mother was pregnant with me. And that's when he finally, his life changed. So I didn't have a close relationship with my dad. So sometimes I think I transfer that over to God and think, God's like my dad. Well, that's not true. My dad did the best he knew I'd do, but God does it right. Then the then abba father is what he our heart prays at. So I think you you you want to move in. I would say to you, love is the atmosphere we raise everything in. Love. Love them when they do wrong, love them when they do right, love them by spending time. I think a I think pastors, I think pastors ought to work 40, 50, 60 hours a week. Whatever. What a regular man works around here. 40, 50. But I think for pastors make a mistake, not you. I'm not talking about any person in particular, but they sometimes they want to overwork to make it Look like they're working because they don't want and it and then we leave our kids. And I did that a lot. I I was always so busy. So I would tell you, I think it ought to be times when we all of us, well, quite a few of you are older. I don't know exactly where you are, but you're not you're not 30, I can tell you that. I can look at you and tell you that. And so I would say this uh uh I would say this. I would say um we know, us older men know this. Your kids are at your house a very brief time.

unknown 44:59

Yeah.

Austin Gardner 44:59

And when when your kids are young, it seems like forever. But one day you wake up and they're all gone, you're like, where'd they go? And and and I have to fuss at Betty quite regularly because she treats my 50-year-old son like he's 15. And I tell her, she'll say, Honey, I don't like what he's eating. He's a diabetic. And and I look at her and I go, he's a grown man. If he wants to kill himself, get out of his way. And she said, I'm his mama. And so I think love, I think love is expressed in time and words and things that we do together. And I think that uh first is our wife. I challenge every pastor. I think the the the thing that most tells your kid they're loved is how you treat your wife.

SPEAKER_06 45:50

Yeah.

Austin Gardner 45:51

Uh one time years and years ago, Betty and I had a massive fight, a massive fight. We were in the basement. I was a skinny young preacher and didn't have any money, and uh, I had built a wall across my basement, but I didn't know what I was doing. And we needed to move the deep freezer. I was I was had her I put a broom under the front end so it kind of gets up. And then I was pushing it, and she pulled it too fast and I slipped and I hit my chin going down, and it nearly knocked me out. And so I'm on the floor. I mean, I am dying. I'm seeing stars and Betty's going, You okay? You okay? What's up? And I finally go, shut up.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Back away, I'll be all right. And she says, You're an animal. And what are you doing telling me to shut up like I'm just trying to tell you I love you? And I said, get out of here, woman.

Austin Gardner 46:39

And so she gets up and leaves, and I slam the door like this in my hands, and the whole wall falls down. That's how good a wall I built. And then Betty goes upstairs, and my oldest son has gathered the other little ones, and they're on their knees praying that we don't get a divorce. Of course, you know, I you know, we were all right in about five more minutes after I quit hurting. And Betty's like, oh, he's like that. Don't worry, that's your daddy. But uh I I would say you know, get on the same page if you're not. Get on the same page. Uh we were riding down the road in Arequipa one time, my son Chris, who's 50. He said, uh, Dad, uh, it's just me and him. He said, Dad, I need to talk to you. Sure, son, whatever, talk to me. He said, No, you know mama. I said, Well, I know her a lot. I said, She's my wife. Been married to her all 30 years or then, I guess. I don't know. He goes, Well, Dad, she's crazy, you know that. And I said, Well, before we go any further, let me explain something to you. I love your mother. And whatever she said, I agree with her. And he goes, Well, it ain't no use talking to you, is it? But I think that's the strongest thing we can give our kids. I think we if we're we're not careful, if we're not careful, they feel the distance between us. And I think if I I don't mean this in any way ugly about men my age, but sometimes we can't do what we used to do. I mean, I'm missing a lot of body parts. I have to take medicine every day to stay alive. And we're so it kind of makes us angry. And we're kind of upset that life's a little rough now and ain't like it used to be. And we're we're not, and so we don't mean to be that way, but we can come across as being harsh and distant. And it it's a famous thing. I think y'all know this is true, but they talk about cranky old men all the time. And I don't want to be that guy. I just do not want to be that. And when my kids were home, I you know, I had two boys, and my boys were all man. My daddy's genes went through me and I refined them maybe a little bit, learned to say I love you at least. And my boys got it. And their mama was always trying to tell them what to do. And I when they was about 15, I told her, I said, stop telling them what to do. I said, tell me, and I'll tell them. She said, they don't respect me. I said, it's not that. They want to be men, and men can act like jerks. And uh she I told her, I said, I don't want my boys to leave. When I turned 17, I wanted out. I did not want to be with my mother and daddy. I especially didn't want to be with my mother. I could put up with my daddy a lot better than I could with my mother. And my daddy was harsh. And I said, don't do that to my kids. Don't do that to my kids. And she didn't. And my kids are, we're, I mean, we are like the best friends I have in the world are my kids. So I would just say I think that's a good question. I think all of us ought to work at making sure I know this. My death is fairly imminent. And you know what the most important thing to me is? My wife? I'm I'm good with the Lord. But my wife and my kids.

SPEAKER_05 49:57

Anything else? anybody?

Talking Positive About The Church

SPEAKER_04 50:00

I asked that because I know I I'm the pastor, but the ones in in here who have young kids. Um it's not just for those who are like pastor or whatever, but being part of the church, uh that's raising your kids in the ministry. And uh that's the reason I ask that is because sometimes you see, uh, we talk about nowadays, we don't our younger generation, as soon as they get ready to get out of the house, they're gone. They don't come back to the church. Yeah, that's true. And that the reason I asked that is because how we live it outside of these walls is what's gonna keep them here or drive them away. And so what we do away from here is gonna keep them or drive them out.

Austin Gardner 50:43

You know, when I was uh I I told Betty we never talked negative about church members. I was a pastor all my life. So I never talked bad about the church. And I told church people, don't talk about it about me. Come beat me up in the office you want to. But don't spread it with your kids. If you got a problem, just fix it some other way. Because it because the last thing you want to do as a pastor, the last pastors' kids, they're demons. Mystery kids are demons usually. They turn out that way. If you ever watch around, so I just decided I'd always talk positively about the church, always talk positively about everything that was going on, and I'd challenge you to do that. And I would challenge you to make it fun. And could I tell you, don't be putting a bunch of rules on them like, you know, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. Let the Lord work it through with discipleship and Bible training and gentleness and slowness. Because kids are, I don't mean this in uh any disrespectful way, but most of y'all, we're all just a bunch of grown up kids, and they're just little adults. I mean, it's it's amazing. You can look at a 15 year old and he's a grown up, he still don't act it, don't look it, but I'm just saying so we got to really spend time with them. That's a good point.