Protecting What Matters Most: Child Safety and Spiritual Vigilance

In this vital conversation, Austin Gardner joins security experts Stephen Underwood and Haley Thomas to discuss the reality of child safety in today's world. This isn't just about "stranger danger"; it's about a pastoral commitment to the integrity of the home and the protection of the next generation.

The Reality of Vigilance:
Haley and Stephen pull back the curtain on the "backyard" reality—the hard truth that most harm happens within circles of trust. Drawing from 1 Peter 5:8, they frame child protection as a spiritual battle that requires us to be "sober and vigilant."

Practical Wisdom for Parents:

• The "No Sleepover" Rule: Why controlling the security parameters of your child's environment is an act of love, not restriction.
• Daycare Vetting: Crucial questions to ask about SOPs and staff background checks to ensure your "safe spaces" are truly safe.
• Living in Spite of Fear: How preparation and awareness allow families to live in freedom and grace rather than constant anxiety.

Austin’s Pastoral Note:
As a father, grandfather, and pastor with over 50 years of experience, Austin emphasizes that our role as leaders is to create safe harbors. God’s mercy follows us, and part of that mercy is the wisdom He gives us to protect the little ones He has placed in our care.

Resources:

• For more on grace and family restoration: waustingardner.com
• Connect with the mission: @waustingardner
• https://bfi-foundation.org

Thanks for listening. Find us on YouTube, Substack, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.

Transcript

Why This Hits Close To Home

Austin Gardner 0:27

Thank you so much for listening to Followed by Mercy or by watching us on the YouTube channel. Thank you for being with us. I am so blessed. I'm followed by mercy. I don't know if you know that, but I got Steven has been a lifelong friend, not my whole life of his. And then I just I've just recently met Haley and we're talking about children. Grandchildren for me, great grandchildren for me. We're talking about how little innocent kids are being exploited and mistreated. These are two wonderful people. I know they're going to help us a lot. But I want you to know we don't live from fear. But not living from fear doesn't mean you don't prepare. So I'm sure Mr. Sheep Dog Underwood is going to help us understand that. But I I'll just ask the question to both of you and y'all can answer it. What are we getting wrong? Because I I think people are they're the listening, they may be like, we don't see that that that happens in Miami. That happens in in Columbia, South America. So what do y'all say? Haley? Steven, go ahead. You're starting.

Most Harm Comes From Trusted People

Hayley Thompson 1:38

Go ahead, Steven. You got it.

Stephen Underwood 1:40

I mean, to ignore the fact that this is happening in our communities in our backyards is is pure ignorance and it's willful willful ignorance. You're choosing to believe a lie. And um, I mean, there's there's stories that you can see all the time throughout your community of of children who are being abused, and it's not maybe not at the sexual level, but simple simply child abuse. And the great majority of them happen by people that they know that they're already comfortable with, that they already have a relationship with.

Austin Gardner 2:11

Well, I wait, wait a minute, wait a minute. I think that's that's the part we don't know. Say that again. Just drive that again.

Stephen Underwood 2:19

The great majority of of abuse that happens to our children is done by people that they already know, that they already have a relationship with.

Hayley Thompson 2:27

Yeah.

Stephen Underwood 2:28

So we're not just talking about trying to guard them from these ghosts that exist that are here to target your children and get them into some dark under underground world. That means that we have to be involved at every level. Who are our kids around? What kind of what kind of do the people that we give access to our children to, what kind of background do they have? Um, you know, I I'll just be 100% transparent. There's there's people in my family that I would not want to leave my children with alone. Not because I think that they would do anything, but the potential is there. Uh the possibilities there.

Austin Gardner 3:02

And so why would or or they might not they might not do it, but they might not be careful.

Daycare, Sleepovers, And Vetting Adults

Hayley Thompson 3:08

Exactly. Exactly. Or yeah, they they allow other people around your children that you would not ever want to have access to them. So I think staying vigilant is not living in fear, it's living in spite of fear, it's being ready and prepared at all times. And um, you know, we're even commanded in the Bible to stay vigilant because that our adversary, the devil, is walking about as a roaring line, seeking whom he may devour. And so that word vigilance is simply being alert, being aware, and and understanding that there is a real battle that's being fought, a spiritual battle, not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against rulers of darkness, against spiritual wickedness in high places. And if we ignore that, if we pretend like it doesn't exist, it just makes us an open target for the devil to do exactly what he wants to do, and that's to destroy uh our families and destroy our children. The devil the devil is already lost. He lost that battle at Calvary. And so at this point, he's just trying to take as many people along with him as he can. And uh, so our job as not only believers but as parents is to invest in our children and help them to grow up understanding that there's a battle and being being prepared to fight that battle. My oldest son is almost 18 years old. Uh within the within the next year, he's gonna be graduating high school, moving off to college, and living on his own. What have I done in his 18 years under my roof that has prepared him for the real world? And I think that's an extremely important question for us to ask ourselves. Have we taught them, have we trained them, have we instilled in them the tools necessary to not only be effective uh contributors and contributing members to society, but also how to protect themselves from the dangers that exist? Steven, you said a lot of great things there that I was already like running through my mind as far as like a parent, right? No sleepovers, right? Because I'm not gonna trust someone else to execute the same parameters of of um security within my own home in their home, right? So I I know who's coming through my door. I know who they are at their heart and their core and their character and what their background is. If there's anything sketchiness, it's they're not coming in, right? But who's to say you send your child over to a friend's house that you know you go to church with them, maybe whatever, but you don't know about their Uncle Joe. You don't know about like their their neighbor down the road that decided to pop in. Um, you know, like these are like you're just leaving too many areas open for the potential of sexual assault to occur outside of your parameters, like, and when you can't be with them all the time, right? And then on top of that, I understand this world demands mothers for the majority to be a working mother, especially single parent, right? So I'm subjected to having to utilize daycare, right? So, daycare, what can you do there as a parent and being putting protective measures? Ask about their SOPs. How do they respond to certain scenarios where act a shooter, uh case or point of a teacher acting out of line and going too far with discipline and or violating a child? You know, these are all things that you have the right to go and inquire about. Do they conduct thorough background checks on the staff? You know, what's it take for a staff member to be vetted properly to be working at that facility? You if you are looking out at uh daycare, every daycare provider, depending on state, uh, there's a certain credential, a certain number of students that requires them to obtain the credentials authorized to help have a um actual daycare facility within their home, right? There's a background checks, fingerprints that they're required to provide, and that every uh person can go look up and find out any information on that daycare provider. Like these are things that you learn as a parent that it sounds overwhelming and a lot, but you have to do your homework. Um, as well as, you know, ensuring that you're communicating with any daycare member, like what are the expectations for your child when it comes to diaper changing and so forth, like recognizing signs and symptoms in your child's big change of behavior. So I brought those two topics up because my child is uncircumcised. And so I pay attention to like how he's cared for very closely as far as like if they understand the protocol and how to handle an uncircumcised little baby boy, right? And it does bring a lot of fear to me that I'm trusting these other adults to change his diaper. So those are conversations I had to go forth and have with them prior to enrolling him. Are they comfortable with this? And like that I'm aware of what to look for, as well as I've spoken with teachers. Um, you know, when you're taking your child into the daycare facility, has there been a change in the child's behavior? Um such as like the crying and the screaming and the kicking every time they're going in, right? Whereas the child could go in waving and excited to go in and love to be there, that's the first indicator to it anyone that there's something going on that the child's not able to communicate effectively. But all of that is you again paying attention to your surroundings, doing your due diligence and doing your homework, sitting down, betting your uh staff members at the daycare. If your child's enrolled in after school curricular activities, did you background check the coach? Like, did you did you do a background check on that guy and see what he's got going on on the after, you know, aftermath of everything? Like, what are you doing to ensure that you know who your child's being influenced by? You know, and ensuring that your church daycare program is properly vetted and who are they staffing there and how did they are in that position at that church uh daycare and ensuring that they have SOPs in placement. Like these are all things that you have to think about as a parent and be protective in that manner and proactive.

Austin Gardner 9:22

So at the last church I pastored, we ran background checks. I was there 15 years, we ran background checks on me and everybody in Sunday school. Anybody, if you helped, you could not go in there if you weren't. And I would challenge all of you listening, but that was good advice. I didn't like that advice. I don't want to believe we live in the world that Haley just described, but we do.

Hayley Thompson 9:46

Yeah.

Austin Gardner 9:47

So uh so I think background checks, uh, it doesn't even cost the church or anybody that much. It's they're they're very inexpensive, but they bring a lot of security. Stephen, what you got to say, bud?

Stephen Underwood 9:59

Well, you know, we uh in our work and ministry, you always instilled in us the importance of of personal discipleship. And um, it's funny to me, I've witnessed it in my own light how I will invest my time, energy, and efforts into discipling a young man in Argentina that comes from a broken family, but I can neglect my own personal discipleship with my sons. And um, you know, that's that was that was ignorant, that was that was wrong of me. Our own children are our greatest disciples. And so for the same amount of effort and energy that we put into discipling others, new believers that are outside of our family to propagate the gospel of the world, I believe that that same energy and effort needs to be put into our own children. So have those difficult conversations with them, talk to them about the real world. There's ways that we can approach it without making them live in fear or exposing them to things before they're mature, before they've reached an age of maturity to handle it. But having difficult conversations to just help them be aware of the possibilities that exist, that's part of the discipleship process. We want them to be Christ-like. We want to raise up children that become those arrows that we launch into the world to take the gospel to the uttermost. But at the same time, we often overlook and neglect our own children because we think, okay, well, they live with us, they see it all the time, they're hearing it. But what have we done on purpose, setting out on purpose to to invest and disciple our own children? And uh I've I've fallen guilty to that many times. Uh I've, you know, uh I remember the the youth meetings that we had at Iglesias Esperanza there in Argentina. Um a lot of times, you know, my son would know all the answers to the questions I was asking, but I remember not sitting down and actually having a conversation with him about that. He picked it up because he was there and listening. And these other guys, I've sat down with them many times and I've taught them the Bible and I've taught them the answers to these questions, and they pick it up because I've I've personally invested in them, but I knew a hundred percent that I had not done the same thing with my son. And uh, and I say that to my shame. And so we need to put that same sort of effort and energy into our own children that we would anyone else.

Austin Gardner 12:24

I want to I want to say this to those of you listening uh talk to your children. That's what Steven's saying, and uh we want to talk to our children. We want to take the time to ask them questions. You don't need to scare them, you don't need to don't instill a spirit of fear, but at the same time, awareness. Haley mentioned, uh maybe it was the last podcast, always situational awareness. She knows where the ingress, egress, she just talked about all that. It wouldn't hurt for your child to know that guy's been following me. That guy's looking at me. Yeah without we don't want a spirit of paranoia. I think that would be ridiculous, but I think at the same time, awareness. Y'all want to say something about that before I come up with another question?

Stephen Underwood 13:19

Yeah, just one last thing. I don't uh some people might look at me and say, Well, you sure do live in fear. It's not fear, it's prepared. I don't I don't fear any situation. I don't fear anyone because I'm prepared. And so simply because I take um I take care to to know my surroundings and have that situational awareness, it doesn't mean that I'm living in fear and panic. It means I'm living prepared. It means that if somebody comes through that door that I'm not expecting, then I already have it played out what I need to do in order to respond. And um 99% of the people in the world do not live that way. Uh that's why that's why mass shooters are able to take out so many at one time, because so many people live unprepared.

Situational Awareness Without Living In Fear

Hayley Thompson 14:04

I will say there's been a period in my lifetime where I remained naive, I think would be the best word to describe it of the realities of our world and where I put my trust. And then there was a moment, very clear moment, when the Lord lifted the veil off the pages of my Bible and revealed to me and how the devil likes to operate, right? And started teaching me the signs and signals to be aware of, right? And that goes in partnership with this topic here. It's it's not that we need to live in fear. Uh, the Bible tells us a numerous amount of times, do not be afraid, right? But it's to be wise, you know, and to understand your surroundings. I was on a work trip two weeks ago, went to a Chick-fil-A, sat down, started to eat, and I noticed a one-year-old infant sitting in his high chair unattended. And I'm I'm zeroed in on this baby. I am zeroed in on this baby because I at every point I see I'm looking around. There's a man in a UPS outfit there, there's a family over there. That man's kind of strange. He's sitting alone there. What's his intentions like I'm recognizing, and the minutes are going by. This child's alone, alone, alone. And he's so innocent in his innocent in his behavior. He's just sitting there eating his Chick-fil-A, looking around, not recognizing how innocent he is and vulnerable in that moment. That someone could just walk up and go. And the mother, I then later, I then pieced together that the three-year-old brother was locked in the playroom and he had had enough of playing, banging on the door. I went out, I went out. And again, minutes are rolling by that both these children are unattended. And I'm getting furious because praise the Lord, my team's there because nothing would happen to either of those children with us in that building. But she doesn't know that. She doesn't know that that the God we serve provided provision that day for her, praise the Lord, right? But she was unaware, not paying attention, just stuck at the counter, FaceTiming, deep locked into a conversation, and then came back, sat down, continued to loudly have a FaceTime conversation. And this is no, I'm not trying to put shame on this uh stranger of a mother that I witnessed. It's just the the clear example of complacency and ignorance at play that that child, there was a clear opportune moment that your child could have been snatched in 2.5 seconds, and that would have been the end of it. And that's what we're talking about. We're talking about children being snatched right out in front of your eyes, right out of your shopping carts, right out of your car, because you didn't lock the doors quick enough, because you the way you positioned your body while uh putting the child in the car, or maybe you put the buggy away first, and then you put the car, uh, the baby in the the car, or vice versa. Like you have to have a plan of attack in every scenario, right? When you're when you're moving through every area of life, you should have a plan on how you're gonna execute, talk to your children, why this is safe at their level, and um remain prepared, as Steven has said. And you know, watching that child be remain so vulnerable, it it fueled my anger, and that's exactly why I get so um I feel pressed to talk about this to everyone because I have been the ignorant person and now I'm the informed person. And it is overwhelming to lay up at night and know and realize how vulnerable my poor child is, you know, because he's under attack and he's targeted. But at the end of the day, I'm doing better than most when I have the knowledge behind me and I conduct myself in a manner in which I'm not an easy target.

Austin Gardner 17:58

So this isn't a movie. If you're listening, it sounds like everything she just described. Oh, that's a movie. We watch that movie. No, it's real life and it happens. It happens in Atlanta. Atlanta, Georgia is a pretty dangerous place. I'm not afraid to go to Atlanta, that's not what I'm saying. But let me just say something about what Stephen said to anybody listening. When you teach, I've taught over the years, I've taught a lot of kids to drive. They just like I was patient with them. I let them drive and I sit over there. But you remember what you teach them? You teach them to always be prepared. Is that guy gonna stop? Is that person gonna stop? What would you do if you had to slam on the brakes? Would you pull off here? What would you do? What are you teaching them? Situational awareness. And Stephen was telling you, and Haley said it to us, but he said be prepared. And that sounds paranoia. That sounds it's like some kind of psychological problem, but it's really not because I was taught that when I was taught how to drive back in 1969 or whatever it was. You know, I'll give an example.

Stephen Underwood 19:07

Go ahead. I'll give an example about driving. You know, I I sometimes aggravate people because I'll leave plenty of room and between me and the car in front of me, even coming to a stoplight. And you've seen enough videos and things like that, even on the news of carjackings and stuff that happened. But if you can leave just one car length of space in between you and the next car in front of you at a stoplight, if somebody comes up that you're not expecting and starts tapping on your window, you have space to pull out and get out of the danger zone. Uh that's not that's not living in paranoia. It's just simply living prepared for what could happen. Now, you could live your entire life and maybe nothing ever happens, but all it takes is that one opportunity, and then everything changes. Everything changes. I don't know the statistics on how many elementary and middle schools exist in the United States. I know that in Whitfield County, if you count the city and the county schools, there's at least six, uh, three for each. So what are the chances that somebody that's not supposed to be there enters one of our schools and decides that they want to that's not something to uh eba who doesn't know about that hadn't watched the news, right? Right, right. But I mean, we want we want to pretend like, well, that's not gonna happen here. But statistically, it could. And I'm sure that at every place, every little community, that something like a school sheeting has occurred that they all thought, well, that that that's not gonna happen here. But all it takes is that one time.

Austin Gardner 20:39

And not every school has that principal that was recently on the news. You know what I'm talking about? He ran and grabbed the yes, that guy.

Hayley Thompson 20:48

Yep.

Austin Gardner 20:49

Macho Macho.

Stephen Underwood 20:52

What Dan Simmons, who is on our team, who's one of the owners of Black Flag International, recently sent me a video and it was it was disturbing. Be honestly, I can't help but applaud the mother. And this happened in Brazil. It wasn't here in the United States, but she walked in and saw that her, I believe it was a four-month-old son was being sexually assaulted by her boyfriend. And she took matters into her own hands. She cut his head off and then carried it around in a backpack for a few days. And I was sitting there, and she she's sitting in jail right now. Uh but I was like, he's not gonna do it again, is he? He ain't gonna do it again. And you know what came to mind when when I heard that, I was like, you know what? I remember David cutting the head off of somebody and carrying it around as a trophy for a few days.

How To Teach Boundaries And Spot Grooming

Austin Gardner 21:37

Uh I got a question for y'all. How do we talk to our kids without scaring them?

Hayley Thompson 21:42

Right.

Stephen Underwood 21:43

Haley?

Hayley Thompson 21:44

Um, so it's a good question, right? Because I have a two-year-old, you know, and um I was actually just pulling the thread at this uh recently because, you know, often what does happen is parents wait till the child's older um to be able to communicate, right, back and forth with the child. And at two, they definitely don't have the language, uh, the full language, right? But my child is a talking little boy, he tells you how it is, but uh it doesn't have whole sentences or I have to translate, I get the top of the tongue. Um, but I talk at his level, right? I I talk to him like I explained to him like this is your body, this is mommy's body. You know, I also hit on the topics of like, you know, just because someone touched Your shoulder or your hand doesn't mean that's a good touch, right? Because grooming starts out with an uncomfortable, like a touch on the shoulder or arm around the shoulder. And then it's an uncomfortable leg rub, leg rub. And then um, you know, then it's the touch that comes that changes the life, right? And these are it's very uncomfortable, right? To think about all of those scenarios taking place. But it's important again to educate them at their level of like even a touch that may seem um normal, touching on the shoulder, because we don't want to just go straight for their if they touch you in your private parts, that's not okay, right? Because that's not okay, but there's there's levels to it. These guys are meticulous predators. They think about, they put the time in, they love the hunt. They want to groom your child, right? So they know they're gonna slither in just the way they need to, to then build the child up to it's okay. This happens often, right? And then you want to educate the child on the fact that not, you know, if you ever it's because it's a feeling that comes up, like yet even as adults, we've been in conversation with someone, like, mm-mm, I didn't like how I felt around that person. Like, I don't, you know, I don't, I'm not comfortable with that. Teaching the child to be aware of those feelings. So talking to them, like, you know, about it's not not everyone is good. Like you have like explaining, like, if you feel those feelings, you got to come talk to mommy about it. Mommy's a safe space to have those conversations and and work through those feelings of like, this person made me feel weird when they put my hand their hand on my shoulder. And I didn't like that. I didn't want that. I didn't ask them to do that, you know, and then giving the child also exit strategies, you know, and how to move through that scenario. Like, what are their follow-on actions, right? We're using big lengthy terms here, but at the child's level is what I'm trying to stress, you know, and there's lots of resources out there for you as a parent to go out and figure out creative ways and tactics and how to communicate, but always remember this God ordained you to be that child's parent, you know, and trust in yourself and your relationship you've built with your child that you're gonna be able to have these tough conversations. But the worst thing you could ever do is not have the conversation, especially at early on, right, when their communication skill set isn't built in yet entirely. So, yeah, definitely talking to the child at their age and level and giving them understandings that their their area, their space, their body doesn't get isn't open to to the world. There's not free access from the world. And to recognize what are signs and symptoms. Like Mr. Brown keeps touching my my knee and my leg after school and sits close to me, and I don't like that. You don't like that? That's enough for me. We're we're done with Mr. Brown. Like he's he's out, you know. Like that like giving that education and alerting the child to those little flags going off is gonna save the child.

Stephen Underwood 25:39

And there's there's different approaches for each age. You know, I'm gonna talk to Peyton a lot more directly than I am to Nealand. He's 18. Peyton Peyton will be 18 in November, and Nealan turned 10 today. And so not only at maturity level, but their understanding level is different. And so I'm gonna approach them with these conversations at two different in two different manners. I'll be much more direct and open and transparent with Peyton about the dangers that exist than I would to Nealand. And so, as Haley is saying, learn how to communicate these things at their level so that they can understand. There's no knowledge is worthless without understanding. And so if they can't understand what we're trying to communicate to them, then then we've failed at properly communicating. And we want them to be aware of not only the fact that the dangers exist, but what to do if they feel like they're in danger. You know, there's there's two two things that I'll look for, if possible, to make a judgment on somebody, and that's how dogs react to them and how children react to them. And uh, if dogs or children are very guarded, nervous, or even aggressive towards a person, that that's a pretty good indicator for me that there's something that's hidden there. And uh I I don't know, I don't know what it is. Maybe it's something that the Lord um ingrained into into dogs and children, but uh a lot of times we can we can call it a sixth sense or whatever, but they they sense the danger and the uncomfortableness in somebody before we ever do because we always want to look look on the positive side. We don't want to be that, we don't want to we don't want to profile, we don't want to come across as as racist or bigoted or anything like that. We don't want to come across as um a closed-minded person. But I'm I'm just gonna tell you, it's okay to be closed-minded. You don't have to seek everything that you're thinking, but you can think it and you're free to think it.

Building A Home Where Kids Talk

Austin Gardner 27:33

I want to say to all of you listening, I I I fear that some of you could be overwhelmed and even think they're ridiculous. That's just Austin, I can't believe you put them on. That's ridiculous. But it's it's not ridiculous, and you want to be warned. But can I tell you the first thing is build an entire environment of love in your home. You're loved by your father. God loves you, you're his beloved, and he loves you on your good days and your bad days, and he never will leave you. And so you take all of that and you transmit that into your home to your children and your wife, your husband. Build an environment of love. Let them know what real, genuine love feels like. That means mom and dad, fix your problems in the bedroom and don't come out and be fighting and fussing, screaming, and throwing pots and pans at each other. I I am exaggerating a little bit, but they need an environment of love. They need they need an environment where they feel accepted and loved, and they know I'm protected. And uh that's I don't think that's just I just don't think that's um baby talk. I think that's what you want to accomplish there. Uh and by the way, before I turn it back over to them, let me just say this. My kids I've after my kids have been here today. Um, I never wanted my kids to want to leave my home. I never wanted them, I didn't say I wanted it. I knew they I wanted them to leave. I wanted them to enjoy what I've enjoyed for over 52 years, but I never wanted them to want to leave. I wanted out of my home. I left home when I was 17, and if I could have left it 15, I would have.

Hayley Thompson 29:19

Yeah.

Austin Gardner 29:20

And I wanted I wanted my kids to stay. And so I even when Betty would be mama too much, and she'd be doing that mama thing, I'd say, honey, back off. They're getting to be adults, and we gotta be. I don't want these kids leaving. I want them, and so my home has always been our place.

Hayley Thompson 29:38

Yeah.

Austin Gardner 29:39

Go ahead, you guys.

Hayley Thompson 29:41

No, I I mean I think you're right in um ensuring like the foundation for the child is love, safe space, unconditional love, that they know when they have the the fundamentals such as that at home, they know who they can go to and speak about encounters that they're having, that they uh it's a safe space to also explore their social media channels to talk about what's going on in their friends' groups, you know, having the building that relationship, especially as early as 10, Steven, like with your your son and and the social environments changing and the what's cool is changing and what they're getting involved in is changing. Like, you know, I think you're absolutely right that, you know, ensuring that the at the very core of everything you are loved and you were loved by me, you were loved by God the Father, and you were created for a purpose in a time such as this. And, you know, I'm not my purpose isn't to scare you, is to prepare you and to educate you because I mommy can't be around all 100% of the time as much as I would love to be, you know, and I would be doing my child a disservice if I did it. Speak to him and educate him early on. And I know it's working because he tells me, we'll tell me, no, my body. He'll tell me that too. And I respect his boundaries as far as like, you know, and I I I appreciate it. I mean, sometimes I gotta change the stinky diaper, but still it's like the fact that it's already impressed upon him, no, my body. Like he has those words. He didn't have those prior to the conversations when I started having it. And it was as simple as at diaper time changing, speaking right to him, eye, you know, eye contact, you know, like, hey baby, just so you know, like this is your body. This is your body, this is my you know, and I it just it's as simple as that. The moments looking for that and and sitting down at the dinner table, putting down the social the phones and making eye contact with your loved ones and having those tough conversations.

Stephen Underwood 31:45

Well, even with my three boys, I remember uh Eli was the most uh our middle son, he was the most liberal with himself of the of all of our three. You know, I remember uh at at one point he would get out of the shower and he'd run around the house butt naked and didn't care. There was a there was a point.

Austin Gardner 32:04

Everybody has one of those.

Hayley Thompson 32:06

I got one.

Stephen Underwood 32:07

But but there was a point, uh, you know, he's almost 13. There was a point, and uh, and honestly, it's been just recently where he no longer feels comfortable getting out of the shower and running around the house stark naked. And uh, and so uh, you know, we we want them to understand uh this is uh your body is private to you, and it's safe for you and your future spouse. And it's not something that you show to everyone, it's not something that you display to uh to the rest of the world because that is something that is sacred to you and to your future spouse, and so you should guard it and protect it. And uh, you know, now Neil and he's always been a little bit more reserved and and um and just more laid back, he's more like his mama, and uh and so I I don't even have I don't even remember having a conversation like that with him. I think he wanted to be covered up and and uh hide himself since uh since he could walk. But you know, Eli was one of those free-spirited ones that it didn't matter, and so we had to have conversations about son, you're 10 years old. It's no longer appropriate for you to run around the house butt naked.

Hayley Thompson 33:18

Yeah, yeah.

Austin Gardner 33:19

I would I want to tell y'all something that are listening. One of my grandchildren came home, very nice school, very nice community, northwest Georgia, and she said to her mama, a boy touched me today. And she was a full-grown woman. By that I mean she had already passed through puberty. And when my daughter contacted the school, it was like, no, he's a good kid. And so my my daughter's a fantastic woman, of course I love her, but she said, Daddy, I I don't feel comfortable. I said, Don't be comfortable, let's burn the place down. Not literally, but thank goodness my daughter went in and stood and there turns out there was more than one complaint. It wasn't just it wasn't just it it now the he didn't do anything like rape or nothing like that, but he was always hitting on the girls. And so I just want every parent listening here. It's been in my family.

Hayley Thompson 34:31

Yeah, this is close by. And they're they're yeah, you think everywhere.

Austin Gardner 34:36

You think I'm talking you think I'm talking to these two people here, and it eh it's not it happened in my family. Go ahead, guys.

Online Predators And A Father’s Warning

Hayley Thompson 34:43

I was just gonna like, and I appreciate you sharing that that story, and um my heart goes out to to her and but kudos to your daughter for being so brave and having the courage. I mean she's a wonderful woman. Yeah, but that's the the Esther in her, probably, like to speak up and have a voice, right? But nonetheless, we've seen on our operations in support of the Innocence Foundation firsthand how these predators operate. And it's as simple as like a nice dating app, you know, and the conversation is right there in your face and how they speak to your daughter or your son is vile. I mean, the things that they're asking for, the things that you couldn't even fathom, fathom your child being forced to do. And they have no shame, no shame in how they conduct business. I've read the text messages where we set up a decoy, and you know, we we want the decoy to remain in a a specific role in in where like they're not provoking the predator to say anything specifically. The predator that ought actually ends up outing themselves, right, Steven? Like they are so eager and hungry to be nasty and a monster, it's too easy to close book on them. Um, but it they're right there in the dating apps, they're right there in the in the games, and they're right there in your child's hand in the phone, and that they're willing to talk to your child on a level that is so vile that if your child doesn't know any better, they may accept it.

Stephen Underwood 36:21

Well, you know, and even going off of the dating app sort of scenario, there's this term that that people use called catfishing, where somebody portrays themselves as somebody else in order to try to entice a per member of the opposite sex for a date, and then they show up and it's not the person that they portrayed themselves to be on that dating app. If we know that in dating apps among adults, why do we why do we think that that's not gonna exist with our children? If they if it's such a prevalent problem within adult dating communities, how on earth are we gonna close our eyes and pretend like it doesn't exist in the world of our children? And so I don't know, uh I don't know how much you shared about Joy's story. I'm assuming she's the daughter that went and stood face to face at the school. But I mean she has her own past. So this isn't the first time in your personal family that something like that has happened. And uh I don't know what you're comfortable sharing. I I think Haley and the entire team would eventually love to hear Joy's story one day. But you have lived through that hell of having to go and find her and rescue her. And uh the difference is that we didn't exist at the time to help prevent it.

Austin Gardner 37:35

Well, you know, the I don't know how much I ought to tell because I would not violate her conscience or whatever she would say. But my daughter was raped by three men one day, midday, midday, in a in a safe place. She was downtown. Now I do think it was somebody trying to attack me because I was a missionary and and there was a bunch of political stuff going on. But they my other son was there. He'd tear them to pieces now, but he was a little boy then. She's about fifteen, fourteen. I'm not really sure. I don't remember for sure. And uh but uh she still can't drive down that road and drive by the spot where they dumped her after it was over without it still bothering her. And she's uh forty eight, I think. Um another guy um went to church with us, was on staff, married, kid, he groomed her, and he took her and nearly destroyed her life. That guy still is able he doesn't talk to me, but he's still able to get away with it. In other words, he's still nothing ever happened, but anyway changed countries, but I just would want all of you to know that I know that it can hit very close to home. And there's not a more precious person on the planet than my daughter. You know, one time when she had run away from home because she's embarrassed and hurt and all the garbage, I found her and she said I just told him my dad'll be here anytime. He's coming. And I got there, but anyway, I don't think I don't think they listen, I don't think they listen to this. It'll it'll be all right.

Stephen Underwood 39:30

I don't I don't know, and I'm sorry to get emotional about this, but I've heard it for the last 30 years. But I wonder how many kids out there with the certainty like she had to say, he's coming. He's coming. How many children are are right now in that place of torment and and torture and and humiliation and that they're wondering does anyone even know I exist?

Hayley Thompson 40:05

Yeah.

Stephen Underwood 40:07

Is anybody ever going to come for me? See, Joy knew you were on your way. How many others out there don't have that?

Mercy, Courage, And Next Steps

Austin Gardner 40:17

Oh, she knew. Of course, we got a very special relationship, the two of us, but anyway, I hope dad's listening will I think with your sons and your daughters, but dads. Your little girl. She needs a good man in her life. A man who my my little girl told me she's a grown woman now, she's about to be a grandmother, but she told me one of the days she said he never doubted my daddy loved me. And so uh I just hope you're loving your child. I hope you're loving your child. And I hope there's nothing they can do that would make you love them less. And I hope there's nothing you're asking them to do to make you love them more. Love them like our father loves us. He loves us in a way that says, I there's nothing you can do to make me love you more, but there's nothing you can do to make me love you less, because I am love and I'm gonna love you. Well, I think we have failed. If you two will give me the time, uh we haven't talked enough about Black Flag Innocence Project. So I'd like to I'd like to finish today's podcast and come back and do one. We could be a lot shorter. I know y'all are busy people, but I think we need to tell people why and how and what about black flag. Are are y'all okay with that?

Hayley Thompson 41:37

Yes, absolutely.

Austin Gardner 41:39

All right, well, thank y'all so much for listening. I hope all of you remember today. We are followed by mercy. Followed by mercy. See, our father loves us, he loves you. You're for the believer, the shepherd goes before you. Goodness and mercy are following you, and Jesus lives in you, and you live in him. How in the world? I got goosebumps. How do you get better than that? So I hope you'll listen. Hope you'll share the word. I hope you'll give it a like. Thank you so much for listening. God bless each of you.