DO GOOD X Podcast

Ep. 34 Navigating the Startup Scene and Business Challenges: Building Sustainable Businesses with Justin McLeod

• Kimberly Daniel, Stephen Lewis • Episode 34

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Welcome to the DO GOOD X podcast, where hosts Kimberly Daniel and Stephen Lewis highlight changemakers transforming industries and communities. This episode features Justin McLeod, founder of Surthrive and creator of Atlanta Tech Village's first pre-accelerator program. Justin shares his journey from startup challenges to launching Square One Startup School for non-traditional entrepreneurs. Tune in for insights on avoiding founder pitfalls, sourcing opportunities in Atlanta, and building sustainable businesses while prioritizing well-being.

IN THIS EPISODE: 

(00:00) Introduction
(04:41) Justin’s inspiration for Surthrive and the challenges he experienced
(12:49) Common mistakes made by founders
(17:40) Where to seek opportunities in Atlanta
(24:50) What resources are available for startups
(28:29) What should founders consider for the long-term viability of their business
(32:45) The “Off the Cuff’ segment 
(40:08) How your well-being impacts the sustainability of your business

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

  • Avoid rushing: Validate your idea, test the market, and define its value before investing in product development to avoid wasting resources
  • Embrace flexibility: Founders should adapt to feedback and market needs, pivoting as necessary. Starting with a service-based product can generate sales and fund a sustainable tech solution
  • Lack of knowledge hinders founders, making education and guidance key to confident, strategic decisions and success

RESOURCES:  

DO GOOD X - Website

DO GOOD X - Podcast

DO GOOD X - LinkedIn

DO GOOD X - YouTube

DO GOOD X - Spotify

DO GOOD X -  Instagram

Surthrive - Website

Justin McLeod - LinkedIn

GUEST BIO: 

Justin McLeod is a visionary entrepreneur dedicated to uplifting his community through innovation and economic development. Guided by his mantra, “Think Big. Start Small. Work Fast,” he has opened doors for underrepresented entrepreneurs, pioneering Atlanta Tech Village’s first pre-accelerator program for women and people of color. As founder of Surthrive, a consultancy helping small businesses scale, Justin has supported over 500 socially disadvantaged businesses, creating 800+ jobs and raising $44M in capital. Inc. recognizes him and NPR and continues to drive positive change, bridging gaps and empowering innovators.

DO GOOD X Episode 34 - Justin McLeod - Audio Transcript
Narrator: [00:00:00] Welcome to the do good X podcast, a sanctuary from the entrepreneur grind host Kimberly, Danielle, and Steven Lewis advocates for impactful entrepreneurship guide you on the path where purpose meets business. Join us to slow down, reconnect, and explore the challenges of under resourced entrepreneurs, uncovering the unique journey of building businesses that make a difference.
Now you're hosts.
Stephen Lewis: Welcome to the Do Good X podcast. My name is Stephen Lewis and I'm a catalyst for positive change in communities and businesses. For two decades, I have inspired leaders and entrepreneurs to live and work on purpose with intention, faith, And a commitment to the wellbeing. And I'm joined here today with my colleague, Kimberly Danielle.
Hey, Kim, it's good to see you. [00:01:00] 
Kimberly R. Daniel: Good to see you too. It's, uh, it's, it's been, it's been an interesting day so far, but I'm excited for what we have going on today in our conversation and how we will all be inspired by this conversation. Um, I am Kimberly Danielle. I'm a community builder, a coach, and a communication strategist who comes from generations of faith driven.
Leaders and entrepreneurs who believe that our purpose should drive us to contribute to the common good. And I want to thank all of you for tuning in to this episode. And today we have a wonderful guest who is also here in Atlanta with us. Where do you get X? is. And this is a Justin McLeod. Justin is a busy, savvy, creative with a passion for uplifting his community through entrepreneurship and innovation.
His expertise in marketing and love for community paired with his mantra, think big, start small, work fast [00:02:00] has led him to opening doors for hundreds Of underrepresented entrepreneurs in tech as he strives to close the racial wealth gap by educating, training and servicing overlooked innovators.
Justin's dedication to technology based economic development led him to pioneering Atlanta Tech Villages first pre accelerator program, which has supported over 90 tech startups led by women and people of color. And if you don't know Atlanta Tech Village and you're an entrepreneur, especially in the tech world.
You should definitely check that out. In 2017, Justin founded Sir Thrive, a marketing consultancy on a mission to accelerate economic development by helping small businesses build capacity to scale. Through Sir Thrive's consulting entrepreneurial program and technical assistance services, Justin has supported over 500 socially disadvantaged businesses who have combined created 800 jobs.
And raised over [00:03:00] 44 million in capital. That is some impact right there. And Justin has been featured in Inc Magazine, NPR, Afro Tech, Tech French, while also being recognized as the 2023 Startup Atlanta Community Builder. A Inc 30 Under 30 Listie 2019 Choose ATL Influencer and Herman J. Russell Senior Venture Award recipient.
As a mission driven visionary, Justin's journey embodies a relentless pursuit of positive change, pushing boundaries and making a lasting impact on the world. I met Justin, we, I've been actually following Justin's work for quite some time. It's been a few years and I had the opportunity to chat with Justin.
Over the summer, um, of this year. And it was wonderful to, to connect with another person who, who is leading an accelerator [00:04:00] program. Someone who is in the marketing space, someone who is supporting underrepresented entrepreneurs in various capacities. So thank you so much for joining us, Justin. We look forward to our conversation today.
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to share just, you know, my story, some tips, some resources, um, and happy to provide that with your community. And, um, yeah, I'm excited to get into it. 
Kimberly R. Daniel: Well, let's go ahead and get started. You know, I just want to start off by asking you what inspires you to start to thrive and how does this work complement the efforts of the Pre Accelerator Program, Square One Startup School?
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Yeah, so they kind of, uh, Sir Thrive is Square, right? The reason why I started Sir Thrive, uh, excuse me, Sir Thrive, um, yeah, the story behind it is basically I had my own startup back in 2014, 2013, um, when I was a student at Georgia State University and, um, Basically, we [00:05:00] kind of just had an idea and I was like, Hey, I want to build a tech startup.
I didn't know anything about Silicon Valley. I didn't know anything about venture capital. Definitely was not technical at all. Like I was literally in the computer information systems department when I should have been in the computer science department looking for a co founder. So I didn't know too much about like, you know, tech and I was, you know, Uh, early twenties and I'm trying to figure out like how to get my idea off the ground.
So, um, finally, you know, start to build up a team and, you know, we raised some capital and, um, we launched a startup, but like most startups, uh, it didn't do as well as, uh, you intended it to, to be. So, um, yeah, but like I said, I just didn't. Kind of know just like how to create that business model as far as like to generate revenue.
So we were kind of just going off of the Mark Zuckerberg model of, you know, create a, a, a software that's going to, you know, impact millions of [00:06:00] users and we're going to drop out of college and we're going to, you know, just be successful in the revenue will come. Well. That model doesn't work too much nowadays and it didn't work for us.
So, um, essentially I had to close down and start up, right. Well, my time when I was developing a startup, I was like, actually you mentioned Atlantic village. Uh, we was working out of Atlantic village and I kind of noticed something. I noticed that like me and my co founder, we were like, some of the few black folks in the building.
At the time, Atlantic Village was kind of fairly new and, um, it kind of had that, um, college prep vibe, like the typical startup bro vibe, right? I'm talking about, you know, got the polo shirts and people rolling around on scooters. And then me and my co founder would come in with our, you know, hat backwards with, you know, so, you know, with the culture, right?
But I noticed that we were You know, different. And I [00:07:00] noticed coming from just a space of my previous background and just in events, event planning, that, um, this was a unique space to me, technology. And I know that as I was building my text, text started to find, I was like, okay, I want to change this. I don't know how or when.
But I want to like open up more doors for people that look like me in tech. This is why I was building my startup. But then, you know, I didn't of course have the capacity to, you know, be a community builder or anything like that. Cause I was built heads down on a tech startup. But once we shut that startup down, I was like, okay, cool.
I don't want to go into corporate where I, I like this technology. I see how scalable it is to like really generate wealth, uh, for. You know, the community. So that's where I kind of started to thrive. I kind of just essentially married my, uh, expertise in marketing. So that's where I went to school for is marketing, but also for my passion, for, uh, helping out my community and just opening up doors for people that look like me, who just don't know about, [00:08:00] um, raising capital, getting customers, getting resources for their business.
So I was like, okay, I want to create a platform or services that can just Underrepresented entrepreneurs, um, just get those resources so that they can essentially scale their business. So basically that's kind of like the origin story of how I started to thrive. Uh, and, um, yeah, like I said, it started off as me as a failed startup, kind of going and pivoting into my, um, my, my expertise in service, but pairing it with, um, just my, uh, Yeah, my love for giving back to the community.
So I'll stop there. That was a long answer. 
Stephen Lewis: Yeah, that's good. You know, accelerators are often seen as launching pad for startups, but they're also businesses themselves. I'm interested in hearing some of the challenges and opportunities that you experience in developing and leading Square One Startup School.
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Yeah, so, um, basically I came up with [00:09:00] squirrel and start this concept for when I was at Atlantic village. So I started, um, working part time Atlantic village and doing so thrive, you know, simultaneously. And when I was working as Atlantic village, we, I launched their pre accelerator program. And of course it had the brand name of Atlantic village on it.
Uh, David Cummings, you know, is the owner of Atlantic. So everybody in the tech scene knew, knew the brand. Um, but the one thing that I noticed my time of creating the program there is that we would reject people from, you know, from, uh, you know, who applied to come participate in the program. Um, not just because some people just weren't, you know, um, qualified, but sometimes we reject them because they weren't able to actually, uh, come downtown to Buckhead on a Wednesday at 10 a.
m. Right. So me, I looked at that as an accessibility problem and I said, Hey, let's, uh, let's try to create this and solve this problem. So that's why I left, um, Atlantic village and I created my own pre accelerated program, which is square [00:10:00] one startup school. And with the vision and the mission to, uh, create a equitable.
Startup education for anybody who wants to create a startup, right? So if anybody has an idea, they shouldn't be limited just because they're not able to actually go to Silicon Valley or Atlanta or these big major tech hubs. They can be in, I don't know, Idaho. You know, and still want to build a startup, and that's where the concept essentially came from with Square One Startup School, and, um, I guess to answer your question, the biggest challenge with, you know, kind of having a standalone, uh, program without like the big backing initially, um, is that itself.
It's like, you know, It's a business, you know what I'm saying? You need capital to run it. So our model was essentially to create a program tuition fee, um, for founders to participate. So basically they had to pay, pay to place or pay to participate in our programming. Um, but I think that's been, that had been the most challenging, um, [00:11:00] Aspect is finding a unique business model that supports community builders, because I think that's something that's not really talked about.
It's like, you know, hey, everybody wants the ecosystem builders and community in the dot connectors. But, um, funding those type of programs and individuals who are doing the work. It's tough, right? But you have to be very creative. Um, and one creative thing that I started to do was like, um, kind of pair my service based business, which was to thrive with the program.
So we started to get in contracts underneath the thrives name, and then we will kind of like funnel, uh, Some, uh, some, uh, some money that we're getting from so thriving into the program. So that's helping us fund the program. So I get more into that, but that's been the most, you know, challenging thing to kind of run a pre accelerator.
It's like, you love it. You want to do it. You want it to, um, grow and expand, but you have to create a actual viable business model. That makes sense. You know what I'm saying? That is actually, uh, sustainable over time. [00:12:00] 
Kimberly R. Daniel: Yeah. And you're definitely not the only one who has experienced that challenge. And I mean, us, we've had that conversation, me and Steven, we've talked to other folks, other community builders and people who run accelerated programs, especially, uh, accelerated programs who, who choose to not take from the businesses that go through the programs.
And yeah, it is definitely a challenge. I want to hear about some of the common mistakes that first time founders make, uh, that you've seen coming, you know, with the founders have come through square one startup school. And how does the pre accelerator you lead help them to avoid those pitfalls? So maybe one or two of the most common mistakes that you've seen made.
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Um, I think that the most common mistakes is the mistake I had made when I was a founder was, uh, number one is essentially going from idea straight to [00:13:00] product. Right? Like, so literally like you have a concept and you go straight to like, I want to build this out. I want to build exactly what my idea is.
And I, and I guess the number two thing is, is that, uh, that I've seen is founders who aren't coachable. I don't say coachable, who aren't receptive to, um, being flexible with their initial idea, right? So I think that that's extremely important when you're kind of starting off is that, um, to be flexible, right?
So to be open to, um, pivoting, shifting things that probably aren't initially how you want vision, envision them to work out. Um, you know, That it could, you know, work out for your benefit if you, you know, kind of are open to that flexibility. But the reason I say number one is the, you know, idea of the product is because I've seen a lot of founders spend a lot of money, right?
So we think that, like, startup founders don't have money or they, hey, they can't pay for this program or they can't pay for that. But I was saying, you know, when it comes to technology [00:14:00] companies that we work with, a lot of software companies are Startup founders who are building software. Um, the highest I've seen today is they spent 200, 000 on a clickable prototype that doesn't work.
So I say, so I was like, okay, 200, 000. Then last, what I see was 90, 000. I seen 50, 000 to all the way up to like 200, 000 on building from going from idea, like, Hey, I have this idea hiring a. Software development company, or outsourcing it, and they're spending all this capital and then they get back in return something that is not even functional or working, right?
So, with Square One, we want to get to people before they actually start spending money. Like, that's one, that was one of the biggest foundations why we built square one as well is to help avoid those common mistakes in those pitfalls, especially as it relates to non technical founders who, cause [00:15:00] I was a non technical founder.
I lucked up meeting my co founder cause we played football at Georgia state together. And, um, he was just happened to be in computer science, right? I haven't met too many football players in computer science, but either way, that's how I found my co founder. Right. But nowadays it's kind of tough to find like a, uh, Uh, a co founder that's cool that just wants to join, you know, and you have to pay him a lot of money.
So a lot of people say, okay, well, I can't find it. And I liquidate my 401k and I'll jump into it. Right. So, uh, the thing is what we do is we don't want that to happen. We want to basically help them validate their concept. Um, essentially figure out their value proposition. Do customers really want it? Does the market really want it tested out in a minimal viable way as possible?
And the most cost efficient way possible. We really preached the fact that we need to start to leverage getting customers. Even if that's not necessarily a building a technology product, create a service based product, generate some sales, and then use those [00:16:00] sales to reinvest it back into the product version of it.
So that's kind of what we really teach. We don't. We're not biased on one route when it comes to startups. We don't say, Hey, you need to raise venture capital or, Hey, you need to, um, build this big technology thing. Right. Our thing is just about providing those options, providing those pathways, but really just educating them so that they know how to make the most data driven and accurate decisions for them.
That makes sense. And they're confident in that. Cause I didn't have that when I was building my startup, I didn't know all the different pathways, right? So I just kind of just was. Going off a straight hustle and just, I'm gonna make this happen, right? But it didn't happen because, you know, the lack of knowledge is really the, um, probably one of the worst things for anybody to have, right?
So that's kind of where the whole concept of even it being a school, right? It's just education and just showing those different pathways and options so that they, um, can choose with confidence and take those, take those risks, but do them, uh, calculated. [00:17:00] 
Stephen Lewis: Well, you know, with the rise of incubators and accelerators in Atlanta, what are the most exciting possibilities and potential drawback for startups and local ecosystems, or even for the startup school that you've been working in?
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Oh, yeah. So, um, she said the, what was that? She said, what are the opportunities? Yeah. Like, what do you think? 
Stephen Lewis: I mean, you know, it's such a saturated market in terms of incubators and accelerators, particularly here in Atlanta now. And so I'm curious about what, where did, from where you sit, where do you think the opportunities or drawbacks for startups, um, in the local ecosystem here in Atlanta?
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Yeah, I think that it's just a matter of, um, how you position your, um, how you position yourself in the market, just like with any incubators, just like a business, right? How are you positioning yourself in the market? Um, and the biggest thing, our opportunity is, the good thing is that there is these resources.
Because when I was building my startup, we didn't have no accelerators in [00:18:00] Atlanta or no incubator. I had to work out of a library. Laughter. Literally working out of a dang library. And I was like, kind of mad about that. But anyway, um, now there's coworking spaces and accelerators and, you know, saying something like to your point, um, it's just more accessible aspects.
But I guess if you are a ecosystem builder, it's really. Going back to figuring out what's that, what makes you unique, what makes you, uh, fit in the market and also how are you, what are you double down on? Right? So, um, for instance, of course with technology, the big trendy things now is, uh, AI. So if you have anything with AI or climate change, then there's government funding for those aspects, um, that you can essentially submit grants and proposals for, and then get some, uh, federal capital.
Or if, like I said, if you want to, uh, Evolve your incubator into an accelerator, right? So getting some equity turning into like a mini fund or micro fund on the back of it end of it Maybe you [00:19:00] have you know philanthropist friends or just like a crowdfunding aspect of thing I don't know but essentially where you investing in getting equity into um Some founders, um, or if it's a service based model, right?
So if you essentially, um, say, Hey, we're going to practice training, but also here, here's, you know, how we can help their entire business, not just with the product, but we can help with your marketing. We can help you build this thing. So for example, like I said, if, if I saw that a founder is spending 200, 000 on a clickable prototype, it's like, okay, how can You know, how can we figure out a business model where they can spend 25, 000 with us, right?
So it's about real, about really being creative. So it's not, it can't just, hone in on just education because everybody, you can get education from anywhere nowadays. So it's really about the type of people, like for me with Square One, we're bringing in some pretty heavy hitters in the startup space. We talked to Ben Chestnut, uh, co founder of MailChimp who sold his business for 12 billion.
Uh, we talked [00:20:00] to, uh, Beatrice Dixon, who sold her company, uh, the honey pot co for 380 million. So we're bringing in all these different people from my personal network and, um, bring them in. So then people are like excited about those founders and want to hear their story. But also, like I said, it has to be something more valuable than just the, uh, education piece.
Stephen Lewis: Yeah. That, you know, one of the things I was thinking about as you was talking, particularly, What's most recent in the ecosystem is all that has been trans, transpired with, um, with, uh, the fearless fund and this whole kind of litigation. And I wonder, you know, you know, as from one founder to another founder in terms of, you know, create an accelerator, how are you thinking about square one startup school, um, in light of, you know, these types of pending litigations and more to come [00:21:00] with, you know, You know, affirmative action and really trying to think about, like, how do you actually tend to underrepresent entrepreneurs to really create the kind of robust ecosystem where everybody wins?
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Yeah. Um, yeah, I think that, you know, for me, my personal perspective on it is like, my personal mission is to help specifically black entrepreneurs, like, you know, straight up. I want to help black people, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's my biggest thing I see, you know, it's maybe cause I am black, you know what I'm saying?
I seen, um, just experienced, you know, the, the, the racial wealth gap, you know what I'm saying? Within not just in Atlanta. You know, with Atlanta being one of the top cities and income inequality, but around the country around the world, right? So that's my biggest thing. However, As a business person, I understand the language of business.
Everything is a game, right? So for me, it's like, okay, if I know my personal mission, I can't let my personal mission kind of over, overweigh just my business [00:22:00] objectives. Right? So I know that what helps my business be more competitive, um, is, is to not to know the game. So if the game is right now is, Hey, you can't say you're going strictly for black entrepreneurs or black founders.
I'm like, okay, that's fine. You know what I'm saying? Well, we're going to go and look at the data and the metrics and look at other areas that, um, where there are larger groups of, um, Black individuals, right? Um, but I'm not, we're probably not going to say, hey, this is, this is a program for Black Founders, right?
We'll say, Hey, like this is a program for non traditional. So if you're looking at our website and our, our marketing material is for non traditional and technically it is, you know, for, for non traditional founders. So non traditional can mean an array of different things, right? So if you're not traditionally funded, if you're not traditionally in the right, uh, uh, tech hub or ecosystem to receive the resources and capital, those are the type of people that, you know, that I can essentially, uh, really.
with, right? Because whether that is, if your [00:23:00] race is different or whatever, it's like, for me, it's around like, okay, how can we're sharing these, these common struggles, right? So how can we create, um, you know, that a narrative that is, uh, effective for, for And productive for everybody involved. So that includes people, um, you know, legislation or, um, you know, federal grants and all these different programs saying, Hey, you can't do, you know, can't do this with this particular race or ethnicity, like, cool, we don't have to do that, but Hey, well, what we're going to do is we're still, there's still some maybe lower income individuals or some individuals that are located.
So finding kind of like a work around to figure out a still way to kind of fulfill your personal mission. That's what I tell entrepreneurs all the time. It's like you can have a personal mission, but also you got to know how to sometimes separate your personal from your business and still kind of figure out a middle, a middle ground and also.
Still fulfills that mission. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's like, yeah. So you can still [00:24:00] do, but if you don't want to overcompensate your personal stuff onto your business so much so that it negatively affects your bottom line, you know what I'm saying? And then you out of business and then it really becomes a hobby and not a business.
Kimberly R. Daniel: That's good. We're going to move to our resource roundup. And here we typically share various resources and practical tools and tips that will equip and support underrepresented entrepreneurs as you build your business. So, Justin, one of our first questions for you around resources is, you know, given your experience in Atlanta's business community.
Where should underrepresented early stage. Entrepreneurs go to meet key players and find valuable resources to support the development of their particular businesses. 
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Um, yeah, so I think, um, well, first of all, I'm going to drop, drop my, my, my stuff. So Square One Startup School, whoever listening, Square One Startup School, if you're building it at early stage tech, we opened [00:25:00] up our online community.
So anybody with an idea, go ahead and come to Square One Startup School and you'll have access to courses, content, community. Um, But definitely square one star school. Uh, but also I guess if you're thinking about place based, so specifically Atlanta, um, the biggest thing when I, when I was building my startup, um, we had this acronym, it was called BOTS.
B O T S. Me and my co founder and my team. And that's still for be on the scene. Be on the scene. That means that our strategy with that was like to be literally at every little event that we could go network and event stuff so much so that people have to ask, who the heck are you guys? What do you do?
Like, how can I, so I've, we'd made that and now that has like literally become like second nature to me now. It's like, and I always tell that to our early stage founders, especially founders, you know, of course, if this is your, First time, you know, going out there is to get into, uh, as [00:26:00] many, you know, um, events, workshops, um, you know, programming that you can.
So whether that's going to Atlantic village and just going there, you don't have to necessarily be a member, but just going there and seeing what events their free event schedule is going to ATDC on tech square. Going, um, no, I went to, you know, tech square. What else do you have? You have a tech stars demo day, right?
Um, you have, uh, innovate TLS coming up, um, this fall going to everything, right? Cause you can meet so many people with just networking now help you get to the next level. And then also the thing is, is, With these relationships, um, their relationships, right? That's how I always treat relationships with people.
So even with, with Kimberly, like you, you helped me out with, um, you know, a couple of people that are actually instructing instructor for our, uh, school and start a school. And it's actually a business consultant for my services side. So my thing is, is like, when I work, when I meet somebody, we locked in forever, right?
So this means that we could, I could meet [00:27:00] you at a event and then three years later, I could go back and reference that event and say like, Hey, You know, remember me from here and then, you know, saying we keep it moving. So, um, that's my advice, you know, as far as like for, uh, somebody that's kind of starting off, like to answer your question is specifically in Atlanta.
Uh, Atlanta is a growing hotbed of just. Startup activity where corporations are starting to get more involved with Cox Enterprises and Google for Startups. Microsoft is here. Everybody's coming to Atlanta. So there's never not events and things going on in the startup ecosystem. And the best way to do that is just kind of starting from an anchor point, going to a tech hub, like Atlantic Village, going to ATDC, going there in person.
And then meeting people. And then they'll start to, they introduce you to other people. And then next, you know, you're in the whole ecosystem and then, you know, everybody, and that's how you start to, uh, leverage resources, whatever you're trying to do, whether that's be a VC, be a [00:28:00] founder, or be in the next ecosystem builder, trying to, uh, bring resource together to support.
Stephen Lewis: As a founder, as well as, um, someone who runs an accelerator, you've seen businesses succeed as well as. And so I'm curious about what are one to three things that entrepreneurs need to keep in mind to contribute to the long term viability of their own businesses? 
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: That's good. Well, I answered it like two times in my head.
So I'll answer it. I guess the first thing, first thing that popped in my head is just the mentality, right? Like you got to be in this thing. Like I'm in this forever. Like my strategy for my business is I'm in this forever. I don't care if I need to pause for two, three years. I'm not going to, you know, saying close the business down or nothing.
Right. I'm going to pause it. I don't care if I got to pause it, go get a job or something like that, but it's, it's still going to be going. So my strategy, my advice. [00:29:00] To, you know, founders is, is really the mentality. Do you really want to do this? Right. Do you really want to do this forever? Right. Or do you want to, what's your end goal?
Right. So are you looking to acquire, get acquired? Are you looking to go IPO? Are you looking to have, make a lifestyle business? Um, but my, what my driving force and what I tell folks is that you got to be in this, it's gotta be a deeper mission than just a product. It can't just be like, Hey, I'm just kind of built this product up and sell millions, majority of people that try to do that.
Don't, don't make millions, right? They're on to the next, uh, idea, right? And you probably met a lot of people like that who are just kind of idea hoppers, right? Um, but then the people that I've seen that are successful are mission driven, right? So they have a personal mission that they're trying to solve and the medium in which it's delivered can change.
So it can be a product. They can be. Building a product around that mission. They could be creating a service based business around that mission. They could be working at a company around that mission. But, um, [00:30:00] basically, you know, saying the game is forever, right? So, so play the forever game and you can't lose, right?
You don't, you don't lose if you don't quit, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's it. Um, but that's one. And can you answer the question again? Cause I had a second response. What was it? Can you ask the question again? 
Stephen Lewis: Yeah, I was just saying what. Yeah. What are one or two, one or three things that entrepreneurs need to keep in mind so their businesses are successful and continue to be viable?
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Yes. Um, so yeah, so number one is mentality. Number two is, um, business model and be thinking like two years in advance at minimum, two years in advance. Like right now, like I said, I was a little late on this call. Sorry y'all. But I was working on a contract that will at least get my company a three year run run rate.
So when you're growing a business, you have to be thinking, not just of today, like, Hey, I got a customer. Oh yeah. We doing great this year. You have to be thinking like two [00:31:00] years minimum in advance, whether that's raising, you need to raise capital, get new customers, new contracts, new partnerships. You need to be constantly be doing that so that the cashflow and the revenue is going to be there.
Um, 12 months, 18 months, 24 months down the road. down to a row, right? So much so to then your business is kind of like, you know, it's almost like automated and you, you know, got a big business and you can just kind of relax a little bit. But if you not at that point yet, um, like I said, number one is mentality, but number two is figuring out a business model that can, um, generate either revenue cashflow or some form of capital that, where you can be ahead of the game at least two years ahead of the game.
So that means that's buying you time to survive, so that you don't run out of cash because that's what a lot of businesses, including startups, whatever businesses, they run out of cash. And I mean, you got to you. You know, it's tough to run a business. You ain't got no [00:32:00] capital. 
Kimberly R. Daniel: Thank you so much, Justin.
There have been so many nuggets that have been shared so far through Justin's story and his insights, and we hope that it is inspiring you so far. And if you're looking for more resources, of course, you have the resources that Justin And shared and do get X is also a resource that you can explore too for your journey.
So you can head to do get x.org, and there you'll find several things that you may need to support you, resources, tools, tips, uh, to make sure that you start off, start off on the right foot in your entrepreneurial journey. And now we're gonna shift to our next segment. 
Stephen Lewis: Which is off the cuff. So we have a series of questions that have not been shared with Justin, and we're going to do this at fast pace.
So we just want to hear kind of quickly, just an off the cuff of your, you know, as we ask you these questions, what comes to mind, [00:33:00] so it's uncensored, um, But it kind of a thoughtful response. So you're ready to go. Yeah, let's do it. All right. So what is the best advice that you have received on your entrepreneurial journey?
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Yeah. So the best, uh, advice I've got, I won't say the best, but just the one that comes top of mind is that, uh, every product has a shelf life. Uh, and basically what that had meant to me, it kind of opened up my mind to say like, okay, like the difference between a business and a product, a lot of times like founders build products.
And they expect for their product to just, you know, grow and be successful, but they don't think about the business aspect around it. So all the different revenue streams, partnerships that can, you know, generate by running a business rather than trying to just focus on like, Hey, I'm a heads down on building this product.
So, um, yeah, so he basically said it, every product has a life show. So it's going to. You know, expire essentially, but you know, your business, you [00:34:00] know, can create multiple products essentially. 
Kimberly R. Daniel: What is one of your go to practices or rituals to slow down, center, and reconnect with yourself? 
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Oh man, that's a great one.
I would say number one is just, I'm a big sports fan. So I remember when I turned, I, my week is like, I don't work a nine, nine to five, you know, as a business owner, but I try to stop my days at like three 30. So like when I stop my day, I try to stop my days and just hang out with my kids. So I have a two year old and I have a, I'd be a two month old.
So hanging out with the family, you know, is probably, you know, number one, cause they just. No, my son don't know nothing about like business and economic development or nothing like that, but it's just cool hanging out with him. And, uh, yeah, I would just say just hanging, spending time with the family and watching sports cause it's, you know, football season now.
And, um, yeah, that, that gets my mind away from it or just taking a walk. So I live not [00:35:00] too far from a trail and me and my son, we just go, go for a walk, go for a little run and just going outside and getting outside of the office. That helps me just to like, get level, and then really just come up with new ideas as well, so.
What is 
Stephen Lewis: the greatest lesson 
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: on your entrepreneurial journey? The greatest lesson is that you can have the same service, but different customers, right? So, you can have the same service, that one customer looks at, and they'll pay, over six figures for it. But then another customer, you will like fight tooth and nail with them to get like a hundred dollars.
So my biggest lesson is, is that, uh, go for customers that, um, that know your value. Go for customers that know your value and, um, and also go with customers that you can, uh, have a, uh, [00:36:00] a peace of mind with. Cause I noticed that we're going with the smaller folks, uh, is a bigger headache, smaller folks, less money, bigger headache, vice versa, go bigger.
Clients is big, more money, more peaceful. 
Kimberly R. Daniel: How much of your success do you attribute to your own grit, will and hustle versus. 
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Uh, faith is number one. Faith is, is, is number one. I think that, uh, that's number one because like I said, I think as an entrepreneur, you really don't know like your next thing all the time, right?
Especially being a full time entrepreneur. Like if you, if you the full time entrepreneur, uh, a husband, a father, home, all that stuff, it's a lot of different responsibilities. So I think that, um, you really kind of. You know, have to lean on something other than yourself, right? So I think having a wife that is faith based, she has a faith based clothing brand [00:37:00] and she's rooted in her word.
And, um, and likewise, it's just that foundation is, is number one. I think as far as like the grit and hustle. I learned that, you know, that grit and hustle is cool, but it's not about gritting us. It's about working smarter. And working smarter sometimes can go back to that last question of going outside and just walking and playing, playing with your kids.
Like that could be a smart thing that kind of unlocks a whole nother thing. So I would say faith is number one. And I would say, I don't know if that was part of the question, but DNA too. Like my dad is a, is a entrepreneur at the core. You know, he kind of do similar what I do, but he does it in Los Angeles.
So, um, I just kind of grew up, um, seeing entrepreneurs being around that have my first business when I was six. So, um, so a combination of faith and just DNA. 
Stephen Lewis: So Justin complete this sentence because of my entrepreneurial endeavors. Communities will be or are more able [00:38:00] to do what? 
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: More able to access complimentary resources that they have that they're not able to afford.
Um, because the way that our business model works is our services for small businesses are free. Um, so Usually small businesses have to pay a lot for a professional consultancy, but working with us, you don't have to pay for free. You don't have to pay anything. So we'll give you the resources that you need to succeed.
Kimberly R. Daniel: Well, thank you so much, Justin, for joining us, providing like Truly transparent insights and you know, just your own experience of what you might say is failures, but you learn from it and you grew from it. And now you've have your businesses today, nuggets for how people can move forward or what they should be mindful of in their business.
And thank you just for your work and being a part of the leaders in the Atlanta ecosystem who are truly supporting underrepresented entrepreneurs. [00:39:00] 
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Awesome. Thank you. 
Stephen Lewis: Yeah. Yeah, Jess, I just want to say thank you for what you do in this ecosystem and the ways in which you are supporting, uh, under resourced entrepreneurs to help make this a more robust and equitable, uh, community of leaders who are working on a variety of different problems and coming up to solutions that hopefully makes our community, our city and our society a better place.
So thank you for who you are and what you do through your work. 
Justin McLeod, Founder of Surthrive: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for, uh, hosting me. I say a lot, a lot of, you know, uh, this work, you know, definitely is, is, is, is tough work as you all both know. Um, but yeah, just highlighting this awesome people, uh, like yourself.
And I know other people that come onto this podcast, I know that you all are doing great work as well. So I appreciate the platform and, uh, looking forward to seeing you. 
Kimberly R. Daniel: All right. [00:40:00] So today we are just going to have. A brief chat, a brief chat about how does our personal wellbeing impact the success and sustainability of a business?
Steven, you know, what are your thoughts on that? Because you know, I would go in and say it can completely impact the success and sustainability of a business, particularly if you're the one that is primarily or solely leading the business. Thanks. 
Stephen Lewis: Yeah, I mean, I think what I would say is that you are your greatest asset and Therefore, you need to take all precautions to take care of yourself.
And, you know, there are people who have written about, you know, the, uh, I think it was John Maxwell, um, who's like a big author in leadership, particularly, you know, [00:41:00] from a faith based point of view, we talk about the law of the lid. And he was basically say is that, you know, your business will only grow to the extent that the leader.
team, uh, doesn't have a ceiling in terms of their ability to think, to imagine, um, and even I would put, you know, take care of themselves. And so I think in many ways, uh, as an entrepreneur, your business is an outward reflection of maybe of your kind of, uh, personal and interior. And so I think to the extent that you, if you can show up, uh, tired and ran down, then your business sometimes will reflect that.
I mean, if you're well rested, energized, have opportunity to kind of get away from the business and come back to it, to think about your mental health and your physical health. I think you'll see the kind of positive gains within your business as a whole. [00:42:00] What do you say Kim? 
Kimberly R. Daniel: Yeah. Thanks for that. I completely agree with that.
I mean, I think I've heard a lot of people say, Oh, you know, I can sleep another time. Or, you know, people say, quote, unquote, can sleep when I'm dead. And they're really working themselves so hard to get their business to where they desire it to be. But the question is, is that a sustainable model? Yes, you can put in all this time each day to get this business to where you desire it to be.
But how long are you able to do that? And so you should shift that model and attend to what you just named Steven, where you're attending to your mental well being your, your physical well being all of that so that You can give that consistent time into building your business long term versus going hard short term and potentially that not [00:43:00] being sustainable for you, you burning out, um, and experiencing other, experiencing health issues potentially, and all kinds of things can happen.
And I. Completely agree with you that the, your inner, your inner wellbeing is, can be reflected in your business. Just I think there's some quote, I, I forget who says it, but like, your physical space is typically a reflection of your inner life. Mm-Hmm. . And I think in this, in this same vein, uh, your business and other things that you are working on can be a reflection.
of your, your inner, your inner wellbeing. Um, I've been in conversation with some entrepreneurs and founders who, you know, just, I tell them what my practices are. They will, uh, look at other people's practices of taking care of themselves and they're like, Oh, I wish I can do that, but you can. So if you're one of those people that question that, And you're sending, I've experienced [00:44:00] this firsthand, you're sending people emails or text messages at 2 a.
m. about work, or you are doing that, you know, 8 a. m., I mean, 8 p. m., 9 p. m. at night, get some dinner, spend time with your family, go to sleep. You can, you can make those changes. It's really. I mean, you're, you're an entrepreneur, so that should be more simple than building a business. 
Stephen Lewis: Yeah. And I think the other thing too, is that you have to train people how you want them to interact with you.
And so if you available at all times, then they believe they can contact you all times. And I think we have to, we have to push back and we have to interrogate What I would consider these kind of faulty or bad, um, sayings of, you know, I can [00:45:00] sleep when I die. Like who, why would you want to work in such a way where you're constantly being kept from going to sleep?
Well, sometimes the business requires that. Yeah, but not all the time. So I mean, I think again, it's about finding harmony. It's about finding harmony within the cadence within your life to be able to tend to yourself so you have something that you can actually. Give back to others. It's hard to empty.
It's hard to give. Um, when your well is dry or you're or you have an empty cup or you're working on fumes. So figure out ways in which you can attend to your own well being and your own inner wells and reservoirs. So you can then pour with the other overflow, which you have that can be beneficial to others, your team, your business and those who would enjoy for you to pay it forward.
To the next generation, so they don't have to make the same sacrifices or mistakes that [00:46:00] you have made. Not saying that we don't make any sacrifice. Um, but hopefully that, you know, we can improve, um, our lot in such a way that future generations don't have to make the same sacrifices that we've had to make and hopefully find more of a cadence of wellbeing to be able to do the type of good work that they want to do in the world.
Kimberly R. Daniel: Right. And I'll end with a cliche here. Well, it's not a cliche, but it's something that, you know, we've heard often. It is a marathon. It's not a sprint. So don't try to go in at full force for a short period of time. Figure out how you can pace yourself so that you Are able to model and be, um, in a more healthy space and so that you have a sustainable business.
So hope you have enjoyed this conversation today. And we hope you continue to join us. If you like what you've heard. [00:47:00] Be Be sure to rate our podcast and come back and see us again, or see, or hear us again. And so then be well and do good. 
Narrator: Thank you for listening to the do good X podcast to continue the conversation or access our resources, visit www.
dogoodx. org. Join us again for conversations that will nourish your soul, ignite your dreams, and and empower you to build an impactful business, one intentional step at a time. Until then, keep striving, thriving, and doing good.