AZ Quail Today Podcast
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AZ Quail Today Podcast
Episode #53 Interview with Guy Mollicone Jr | Bird Dog Basics That Actually Works
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We sit down with pro dog trainer Guy Molicone Jr. to talk about what actually builds a reliable bird dog for Arizona quail hunting. We get honest about why rushing gun intro and bird exposure creates long-term problems and how a better relationship with your dog fixes more than any single drill.
• Guy’s story from early desert hunts to professional training
• Why learning theory and behavior modification matter in bird dog training
• Common “repair” cases like gun shyness and blinking birds
• How to sequence prey drive, bird exposure, and obedience control
• Why recall is the safety system for every hunting dog
• How to use whoa sparingly so it keeps its meaning
• Handler consistency and why dogs react to your stress
• Marker words, timing, and “jackpot” rewards without treats
• A realistic first-year development roadmap for busy owners
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Welcome And Meet The Guest
SPEAKER_00Welcome to Arizona Quail Today, your go-to podcast for all things quail hunting in Arizona. We're dedicated to educating and inspiring the next generation of quail hunters. A big thanks to our supporters and proud partners. Now let's dive in today's program.
SPEAKER_03Alright, guys, welcome back to another episode of Arizona Quail Today. On the program today, we got Guy Malicone Jr. Guy, thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_01Welcome. How are you doing?
SPEAKER_03Doing good, doing good. Um, well, Guy is a pro dog trainer, uh, been a friend of mine for a number of years. I think we got connected at the Arizona Pointing Dog Club. Is that where we connected?
SPEAKER_02It was it must have been early like 21 or 20. It was it was sometime around then.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's the last time I've been to a to a pointing dog club show.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. I think I met you and Haley, and uh now you got a little baby, huh?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we do have a little baby now. She's uh just shy of 10 months right now.
SPEAKER_03That's awesome, dude. Well, um, I had known about you for a while, and uh your dad was actually doing dog training. I'd heard about him, and then I heard about Junior in the Valley, and I thought, oh my gosh, that'd be cool because I'm in the valley, I have to connect with that guy. And then, you know, I was doing the Arizona Punning Dog Club, the same thing. You, you know, uh just to kind of get connected with a bunch of other guys, learn some of the tricks of the trade, and uh, you know, so it was really cool to meet you there. And since then, we've been hanging out, doing some dog training.
SPEAKER_02So thanks for well, that's that's the main benefit of the club, is it's just it's really good for getting like if you if you ever move to a state and you don't know where to start, like finding a club like that, then obviously for Arizona, that would be ours, but for any state, um, that's that's how you get connected with people because our people have pretty similar stories to ours, and that they met each other there, and then now they've been hunting with each other for 10 years, you know.
From Desert Mornings To Pro Training
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. Um, so man, oh man, that's really, really cool. Um let's jump right into the questions real quick. So, for listeners who may not know you yet, Guy Molicone, Molicone Kennels, what's what's it all about? Tell us your story with your dad, how you got started as a professional dog trainer, and some of kind of your earliest memories growing up.
SPEAKER_02So the well, my earliest, earliest memory growing up was remembering being like six years old and being pissed off that my dad was waking me up at four o'clock on a Saturday to go drag me out to the desert. Um, I didn't maybe appreciate it as much then.
SPEAKER_03That sounds like that was that sounds like me. That's what I've done to my kids.
SPEAKER_02You know, they we tend to not like that the first few times. But once, you know, once I realized that there was dogs and guns and birds and it was kind of something different, you know, and then it got a little bit more cool. But even it took a while to get over the wake and that part. Um but that was like my first real exposure was when I was like probably five or sixes when we got our first dog. And then my dad did it just as a you know, as a hobbyist. But his my grandparents did it as well. They feel tried their dogs. Uh I don't want to insult him, but it must have been a long time ago, like probably in the 60s. Um my dad was born in 74, so mid-60s. But anyways, that was what that got my dad into it. Um and I guess he just decided he liked it so much, and it his life went a certain direction that happened to be that if he wanted to make a change, there was no better time because he worked uh he worked in construction during the uh the recession or the economy crash. So that was when he decided, you know what, I'm just gonna start training dogs. And then we spent some summers with Terry Chandler. We spent some winters with Josh McPherson. He was already kind of training by that point. But right before my dad uh went for, he trained with Terry. I was there for that. I did two or three summer camps with him, two or three with my dad without him. So I did like six, and then for myself, um kind of fell into a similar situation as my dad did. I just realized that what I was doing for work just wasn't really uh uh motivating me and stoking my fire, so I just got out of it. And then my dad told me that I can train with him. But I had to go to school first, so I wouldn't got that done. Um he always uh respected my opinion, even like as a kid, because as he says I just have good instincts. But when I went to school is when basically he told me he would accept accept me as more of his equal if I could use the terminology the same way and understand it the same way that he does. So um so that was like the requirement.
SPEAKER_03So he's like, Look, if if you if you if you uh if you belong buy into the system, like if you believe the system, then you're an equal. So he he really wanted that respect and that ownership.
SPEAKER_02He didn't want you to just try to well I think if if it wasn't for that, you know, like it I think I knew a lot of these things, like I'm not saying I knew it all and I still don't, but he wanted to see me. Well, for one, it probably told him I actually want to do it. Because if I didn't, if I didn't want to just do it for like a couple of months or something, I probably wouldn't have gone to school. Um but more more so that um I guess the way I would actually put it is when when I first started training with him, I'm talking like that when I was six years old and he was just training with uh Valley of the Sun Wimmer Club. Um even up until the point where I kind of stopped working with him as much because you know I I got older and I had a job and was finishing high school and all that. So like there was things that I hadn't seen that he had developed. Um God, I don't know, it must have been it taken I took maybe two, three years off without seeing a dog, maybe four, maybe five. But anyways, things had changed in that time period that I hadn't seen. And a lot of it is based off of what that information is in the school. And so that was a really big part of it, is I would have been kind of lost and also he wouldn't have been able to communicate it with me as much if I didn't know where he was coming from on why he was doing this thing. So anybody who's ever seen us train, um, we may do certain things that traditionalists will think is really, really, really, really silly.
SPEAKER_03And when you say school, what school is this?
Learning Theory And Fixing Bad Starts
SPEAKER_02So it was not it was for just uh obedience training, but it's not really training, it's more behavior modification. So it it goes over like the learning theory of dogs and how they learn, why they learn, when they learn, what ages are the most important to learn. Um, communicate with them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think that's what makes you guys special too, though. It's like you guys are like dog psychologists, you're the Dr. Phil of the dog world.
SPEAKER_02And I mean, that's the it's kind of I just talked about this, I think at the training seminar I did at the point dog club, but like really I say we, but my dad mostly specifically has created a reputation of fixing dogs that have either been messed up or don't have the drive to make it somewhere else that you know somebody doesn't want to take the time because it's it it's hard to to sometimes drive and make a dog who doesn't love birds, love birds, um, especially on the time schedule. Like I think if we had unlimited time, we could probably get it done with 99% of dogs, it just depends on how long somebody wants to send their money and their dog out. We've because of that approach, um like I'm talking specifically gun shy, blinking birds, meaning avoiding birds, um like that kind of a thing where you have to repair something, it's it gets a little bit harder than just training the old school way. Because if you start stringing them around on a check cord and a pinch collar and like they don't even really like birds that much, um you're make you're gonna make a bigger problem for yourself than and then you will end up coming to see us basically is over the only with. Because every and then and like I have no problem with people want to do things on their own. Like DIY and your dog is just a part of DIY and everything is a part of the world now, especially with the internet. Like we have access to so much information. Um, the only thing I'll say about that is just like take your time and be prepared. Like every like every dog you see is different, um, every dog you touch is different, the responses are different, and like just if you push and you don't feel good about something, take your time and like really make sure because gun breaking and bird introduction are like the two most important things. And if you uh if you make a bad association with those two things, you're starting from way behind the starting line.
Prey Drive Before Obedience Control
SPEAKER_03Yeah, man, that's good. What about in in regards to a lot of dog trainers talk about building prey drive at first and then like layering and control and obedience, you know? Um, but it it I mean it kind of to me it's like I hear that kind of stuff sometimes, and I'm like, if you gotta like really focus on prey drive, it's like maybe you got the wrong dog or something, but I I I I know like you know, a quail and a wing and you know, doing uh doing little things with pups and young dogs, but how do you sequence like drive obedience and bird exposure in your program? Like, how do you guys do you emphasize obedience or is it just fray drive for yeah?
SPEAKER_02So the the philosophy is build them up to break them down, like we we basically make them very, very excited about everything. Okay, so that when we start asking them to do the things that aren't as exciting to them, like stopping and standing rather than gripping and tearing and doing everything for fun. When you have a dog, like even a dog with drive, um if they're not like real motivated to listen to you, meaning like maybe at home, the owner or myself at this point, like I just don't know the dog well enough. But if you don't have what I would consider to be like a good working relationship with your dog, yeah, uh aside from the prey drive side of things, like when you start asking them to do things, they're like, Well, what the heck, man? You've never asked me to do anything before, and usually I get everything for free. So that that that dog psychology of it to not having to work hard for anything or just just work for things in general and like not very many rules, because that does happen, right? Like, even if the dog does behave at home, it might be getting away with more than what you realize. And it's not that it's a bad thing, but it does translate out to the field. So there's sometimes where we'll get a dog where um you know, the first one of the first times they're really hearing somebody tell them no or tell them what to do is coming from us, and you get a lot of resistance that way. So to fight that, the only way to fight that is to make them so excited about the desert and birds and guns and just the whole thing, the life, the life of it make them so excited that you can ask them to jump off a cliff if you wanted to. Like they just okay, so they'll they'll die for you.
SPEAKER_03So the idea of building prey drive first, you're saying you would agree with that, like it is Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't I don't really think there's any other way to do it unless you have a dog who just comes out of the box ready to go. Like, you know, you just some dogs are just different and that yeah, they they don't need much extra drive building, right? But I even with those dogs, we still make sure that we do it right because you can suck it out of them if if you go too fast. Like if you just assume that this dog's hardcore and you go and push too hard on him, you might push too much and he backs off a little bit. Usually it's a little easier to recover with that kind of a dog, but it is still something that you got to pay attention to.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I would say, like, when my dog's like, oh my gosh, they have prey drive, like it is it is somebody said it. I don't remember if it was you or somebody else, but they were like walking through the different breeds, and they were like, Yeah, a lot of English pointers are like they are ready just to hunt for themselves, and and then the the Britney, the Britney just wants to hunt for the hunter. And and I'm like, Oh, that is so true. Like, if and it was kind of that way. I have I've always had like high, high, high, like drive dogs. Like, I remember I had Labradors, and literally, if we would miss the shots on ducks, the dogs would just look at us and then just like they're kind of like irritated, like really weird. I cannot believe you just miss that duck. And with Zona and Happy, it's a little bit of the same way. They just they do they their drive is so high that it's it's annoying almost.
SPEAKER_02But uh yeah, I uh it's a good problem to have. Like that's usually what I'll say. It's it's a good problem to have, it can drive you crazy. But if I had to choose between the two two different styles, yeah, I'd rather have a dog who has too much drive than not enough.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I will say, I think that my dogs, like you've said it before, they're because I hunt on wild birds majority of the you know the time they're in the field, um they like to cheat when it comes to like you know, planted pheasant, chucker.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, just because they're they know they just they they're like that bird looks sticking. Yeah, they if if the bird's not like basically moving, because you know when we hard plant them, they're they're usually down pretty hard. If they're not even like looking like they're standing up properly, like a wild bird, they know instantly.
Clinics And Essential Field Foundations
SPEAKER_03Yeah. That's so true. Yeah, we've had we've had some problems with that with our dogs, you know. So I'm I'm gonna transition, you know, with you. I'm looking forward to we're getting uh Guy Molicone does clinics in Arizona Quail today. We're now partnering up together and doing some clinics together where I'm just helping support and and uh help rally guys and and um it's so we're gonna be doing that. Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about um this idea that we've got where we're gonna gather some guys, do some dog training and and uh what that might look like.
SPEAKER_02And so we're really just gonna get a bunch of guys and dogs together and basically problem solve it. I so the the thing about it, it'll be like different than I don't know, say like my normal structures. Majority of the time, and like we are gonna have a little bit of this too, but a majority of the time, people who come to me are like their dogs are usually brand new. Um, but like in your case, you have two dogs who they don't need the four or five, however long it takes, weeks of building drive and breaking out to the gun and making sure that you know they have a good relationship with the gun. Like we can skip all that. So like your dogs can go straight into what I would consider to be like the obedience and the technique, which we had gone over a little bit of it at my dad's with you before.
SPEAKER_03Do you call that like finish work? Is that another name for it, or no?
SPEAKER_02I mean, for at some point it does become finished work, but really it's it's more there's there's there's a certain form of control that I need to have over the dogs to make them do the things that like my dogs do. And it it starts with the foundation, and the foundation mostly is uh it's well starts on the woodboard and then I move to the ground. Like they're only on the wool board a few times and it moves to the ground. But I need to teach them, I need them to understand fully the concept of me telling them stop, their yeses and their no's, meaning like their goods and their ads. Because when when they do something I like, I let them know, and I do something I don't like, I let them know. So and I only give the command once or twice.
SPEAKER_03Just reviewing some of these foundational things that you're talking about, like stripping down the essentials, the very basics of like you just mentioned, like you're gonna get you're gonna do the woe, so that's stop. And and you we've talked about this. It's like woe shouldn't mean easy, it should mean like stop. Am I correct?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and I just I have a a weird relationship with the word because well, for one, like my dad and I have talked about this, it's not a very good dog word in general, like it doesn't ring their bell the same way that like like stop or yelling at like it doesn't have sharp vowels that keep it um or I'm sorry, it's the other way around, anyways. If we could use a word like stop would be so much of a better word, but it doesn't sound as good and doesn't roll off the tongue as well. But the dogs would understand it better. So to to fight that it's not worth it. No, I I I think it is worth it, and like the dog should know it. I think that you you don't want to rely on it. Like I don't oh yeah, I don't want to have to rely on telling my dog woe to get them to point. Right. I want to be able to tell them whoa and stop them if I need to. Yeah, but I don't want to get into a habit of abusing the word, especially because when we abuse the word, the meaning goes down.
SPEAKER_03But right, you know, the other the other side of the coin is um so when the dog goes on point, like it lock it locks up. I remembered this with your training.
SPEAKER_02Like, if he does it, you don't have to say whoa, because you just you just I want him to do it through the expectation of this is how we do it every single time, and you just know to do it this way.
SPEAKER_03Right, I don't have to tell you to do it any other way. But you know what's annoying about that because I did this, so like I'm a qu I'm a quieter hunter in the field, you know, when my dogs are doing well. If my dogs are doing really bad, then I'm not as quiet. But like if my dog goes on point, I don't say whoa, because I'm like, he's already he's already doing it, so I don't need to there's nothing I need to say other than good boy, you know, and I'm coming. And but in a field trial, it's really weird. Like you have to call the woe to get the basically, it's like that's or you say point, I guess you say that's what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you do you do say point and and you you know, so that's kind of what I mean, right? Like there's there's different scenarios, like if I'm running a dog in a hunt test, right? I'm probably more likely to say woe in that.
SPEAKER_03Right. Because you're marking the moment.
Staying Consistent When Dogs Test You
SPEAKER_02I yeah, well, that and I I want you to not waste my time. Like, I'd like to get through this this hunt test with at least a couple passes, right? So I might use woe sparingly in training for the couple weeks leading up to that, or make sure that I'm not abusing the word, meaning I'm just barking it at them all day long and diminishing the value. That way, when I do need to rely on it, or use rather, um, I have I have a higher chance of them responding to me because like, oh wow, I haven't heard you say that in a while, but I do remember what that means. So I'm just gonna give it to you because I think last time I did this, you shot the bird for me, and I'm everybody was really happy. Do you have to the the the hardest part about it, dogs in general, like how you said, you sometimes you're quiet, and sometimes like if they're pissing you off, you're not quiet. And uh as a handler, the hardest thing for everybody, and even myself, is you have to try to stay exactly the same because when you're mad, or if you're like say if you're going to a competition and you're you're worried that your dog's gonna blow up and make you look like a jerk, like they they pick up on that stuff. So you have to try to be very confident and consistent as a handler yourself, not only like in your your verbals and your commands, but like the way that you feel inside too. I mean, it's a little easier said than done to just pocket your stress out or whatever, your anger. But if you if you're aware of it, you can work on it. But I think a lot of people just aren't really. Aware of the fact that um well that like it's kind of completely unrelated, but that's how people get bit by dogs. Like they they're just turned out. The dogs are nervous, and then the person acts nervous, and then like the person is like looking at the dog and making like nervous eye contact, and that makes the dog more nervous, and then they say, Okay, well, I'm gonna try to pet this dog because I don't know what else to do, and then they get bit. Yeah, it's like a it's like a misreading of dog language and a miscommunication yourself. Like you, you're you shouldn't be nervous, and you sure shouldn't be making eye contact with a dog who's nervous while you're nervous. Because, like I said, they pick up on that stuff, and it translates to the field in the same way. They if you're consistent and you do things consistently, you're taking a lot of the thinking out of it, thinking away out of it for them. And like honestly, I don't really want them thinking a whole lot, I just want them to do what they know how to do because I should have done a good enough job of telling them what to do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's cool.
SPEAKER_02Over time.
Markers And Motivation Without Treats
SPEAKER_03So back on some of the essentials for for some basics for like you know, dog training. Like you you obviously you want a recall on your dog for your dog to come. You you know, if you're an upland hunter, your dog to point, you know, the woe command, um, using it sparingly. And then you mentioned earlier something about um I I think it was you markers, like uh positive and negative markers, like the negative and then good or something like that. Like can you elaborate on that just a bit?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so really the the markers the markers is what makes the collar and our voice have more meaning. Um so like if I if I'm putting a dog on the low board for the first time, I'm probably most likely not even gonna say that word to them. I'm just gonna go for the action. And the way I'd start is just literally just walking them over the top of it back and forth and getting their feet on it, just touching their feet to it, not stopping at all. Every time their feet go on there and they don't dodge it, meaning like some dogs will like go on their hind legs and do a like a figure eight, and they they have a way of avoiding the board, right? So once I get them through that and they're just touching their feet on it, I tell them, good, every time they touch their feet, good, walk through it, put them back on, good. And I keep doing that, like they'll say five times, ten times, and then I'll just throw a stop on them, meaning I'll be walking in them up there the same way that we had just done it. And then I'll just give them a little tug on the neck or a little pop on the on the collar uh with through my hands, and then they stop and I get them stopped, and then I tell them, Good. And then from there, if they start bouncing around and moving off the board, I can tell them the app to keep them from coming back off and let them know that I don't like that. But then that that same concept, like as a foundation, it applies to everything. So as they go through their training, especially when you're when you're pushing, like what I I've kind of really have actually noticed this more recently, ish, but it gets them used to the idea of you being their leader, and like I said, doing the thinking for them so they're not having to think as much. You're telling them how to feel through what they're doing for you. And when they do something that you really, really like, like I just had a dog the other day um has a a strange history with a gun, um having some issues like getting her through enjoying the gun, but she's making progress, right? But she made like a like a really big set the other day, and I got like super punked up about it. Like I picked the dog up and hugged her and kissed her. Like I'm like, I love you.
SPEAKER_03I'm Joe proud of you.
SPEAKER_02Seriously, and like I don't really do that often, but like I was so excited for that dog and then making progress. But my point is like that's kind of an extreme example. But when they do things that I like, yeah, I can raise my excitement level and like you know, my goods and my my reward factor, like they they also pick up on that. Like that's a real piece of psychology in the curriculum. It's it's called jackpoting. So, like the way it would work with treats is like you're teaching a dog to sit, they sit, they pot to you good, and you give them just one dog treat at a time, right? But then they give you a sit that like kind of impressed you a little bit, like, wow, I didn't really have to tell you to sit, you just kind of did it, or you let me take 10 steps away from you and take a circle around you, then you're gonna give them a handful of treats. So you're like over overdosing the reward to match what they did. And using the markers in that way, that's and that's just like one advantage of it. Like, I'm I'm sure if I sat down for hours, I could find maybe some disadvantages for it, but on the on a weighted scale, um my dad and I have found more ways to make it work for us than any other way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's great. That's great. So you'll use the positive reinforcement with like puppy treats. Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_02No, I won't, I mean, not for bird dog stuff. I will not use it for treats. Um, but the the concept and the ideas like the jackpoting, like I'm just replacing the reward from being because like uh a reward to a dog, we don't we don't get to choose like what is valuable to them. Like she some dogs, if I would have hugged picked them up and hugged them and kissed them, they wouldn't have cared at all. Yeah, they would have just said, put me down. I don't I don't want to do this, I want to go find the next bird. Yeah, so she was kind of into it, so I got into it.
SPEAKER_03Um it seems like some dogs are like they're prey drive motivated, they're they're um they're like food motivated, they're people motivated, you know, like they've got they've got like love languages.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. And and you know, maybe if this was a dog that I felt was not people crazy and was bird crazy, you know, it's gonna sound crazy to some people listening, but maybe I maybe I would have ripped the head off of the bird and let the dog eat it.
SPEAKER_04Like I'm not it's not something that I do every once, every all the time.
SPEAKER_02I do it every once in a while for certain dogs. Well, it's the best, but I have I've had actually very good responses and results from that. I've gotten a few dogs to build, drive, and get over birds that way, and I've gotten a few dogs to start retrieving that way too.
SPEAKER_03They're like, oh yeah, finally, dog goes primal.
SPEAKER_02To circle back to you know the beginning of the conversation when we're talking about school, like that's the kind of stuff that my dad needed me to know to be able to train this way because they're all different. You know, that's that's something I pull out of my back pocket every once in a while for a dog who needs it. But there's so many different things in my back pockets for dogs who need it that you know, without having gone through the school and learned all this terminology and been able to like apply it in real life, yeah. I wouldn't understand the same way.
A Realistic First Year Roadmap
SPEAKER_03That's so good. That's so good. Well, man, time has been flying. We've we've been going. Um, what are some lasting ideas? I guess if you've got uh folks, somebody's got a dog and they're wanting to get it into some birds and do all that. I mean, what do you what would you say, you know, somebody bought a pup, they're busy working dad or mom. Um what's a realistic like first year roadmap look like for that dog?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so my my opinion on this is actually kind of changed recently. Um I think the dog's first year, if so, for one, I wouldn't start like formal training until at least like six, seven, eight months, and depending on their uh on their how much puppy they have left in them. Are they grown up enough to handle training? And I'm talking bird dog training, obedience stuff is different. Like, and you can introduce concepts to them, but when I say formal training, I mean like adding consequences to it. Like, I wouldn't add a consequence to a dog that's under six months old because it's more important to let them develop and build up drive properly than tell them they're doing something wrong. I always I always tell people, you know, I mean they don't live forever, but you do have some time, like at least eight, nine, ten working years out of this dog. Like let the first year to two years be the experimental period. Like by the time if you if you do it right, by the time they're hitting two, three, four years old, like they should be hitting their stride, and you really shouldn't have to really do a whole lot with them as far as teaching them because they should just learn it as they go. So, like the first six months to a year, development, take them out to the desert, you know, on a checkboard if they don't know how to recall, make sure you got your recall. Recall is like brakes on a car. You don't want to go driving if you can't hit the brakes.
SPEAKER_03And recall means your dog comes back to you, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um I always I never will put my dog down somewhere that I need them to get back to me if they don't have an e-caller on. Because, like, no matter how well trained they are, um they're always liable to chase a rabbit or chase something that they haven't seen before. You know, their their brains just turn on, and a rabbit will take them far away from you real quick. And if you're not prepared for that, you know, your recall might not be strong enough to break something like that. And even if it is, the rabbit still might be too enticing. And then also just things in general, like there's there's dangerous things in the desert, yeah. Or anywhere. If you're not in the desert, you have cars and other dogs who could attack your dog, you know. This just recall is just very, very, very important. You need to be able to get your dog back to you. Um, but like that kind of stuff, like maybe if it's hunting season and you you do the gun breaking properly and they're not scared of guns. Like, I would prefer if somebody had a six, seven month-old puppy that ends up turning six or seven months in the beginning of October, November, I will tell that person, unless they really want to train, like, go hunt that dog and let them hopefully get into birds, like build their exposure, build their drive, make the world bigger. And when I see them, like the things that when I ask them to do should be jack diddly squat to them because there's they just love it so much. So, really, I don't I don't even think of the first year as like training anymore. It's it's development, develop the dog and like set them up to succeed down the road. So, anybody with a new dog, that'd be my suggestion. Um, yeah, don't be in a rush, take your time, focus more on developing and building a relationship and building a working relationship with your dog. Because in my experience, the people that the people that take their dogs around with them everywhere they go and home depot and make them listen and they get out of the car, and you know, you just you see those dogs in public where you just go, wow, that person has a lot of control over those dogs, yeah. Yeah, those dogs usually end up having no problem being trained, yeah, because they just understand a working lifestyle. And when I say working, like yeah, I mean just not getting stuff for free. Like it could be as simple as when you feed your dog at night, um, they gotta sit for it and wait a minute to two minutes, and you build your way up every once in a while, five minutes. Just some concept of them having to work for something rather than getting it for free.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know, like I mean it's little stuff, and you're you're so right. Like, if like at my at my house, like my dogs, I let them cheat. So, like, here's where they're cheating. Like, I got them in a kennel, and and what I'll do is I'll open that kennel and they'll pound through it like football players. And you know, I can tell them, you know, to stay in there, you know, before I open it up, or I mean, um or it's like at the you know, sliding glass door in the back, like my dogs are charging ready to come in. And then if I just crack that thing, they come in like football players. And it's like if I have an old lady or a baby in the house, it's like well yeah, they're going down. They're yeah, they're like so. It's like it it's kind of like uh these little those little things that you made mention of, like sometimes you cheat at home, and then that doesn't that doesn't help a whole lot, you know, like because well, so it's with you bringing that up, so I I I I think I I like the terminology because cheating is a good way to look at it because dogs are always, even till the day they die, are always looking for a cheat.
SPEAKER_02They're always gonna take the path of this resistance, whatever is easiest for them. And if you allow them to do that, they will do that. But what I think happens, and what I've learned over the last couple years specifically is a dog who's used to that concept of I have to all I have to do is act this way and I get what I want, or they can manipulate you without even knowing you're being manipulated, but it translates to birds too. So they try to pull those same tricks, yeah. And part of the breaking process, um, like I think breaking used to be breaking the crazy out of them, and now sometimes breaking is breaking the the manipulator out of them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because it's just their brains just wired that way, especially especially short hairs. They're yeah, they're really, really good at work in their environment.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Wow, and I yeah, I think uh the the English pointer, they're just really selfish. They just they just want all it for themselves.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, they live more in their own head, their their their minds are a little bit different. Like they uh they well, they were bred to be that way. I mean, that's it's it really is a testament to all the hard work that went into making them that way. Any of these breeds that have like real like defined characteristic traits, yeah, a majority of them were were probably intentionally bred into them. Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Where To Follow And Get Involved
SPEAKER_03Well, I'd love to do another podcast sometime, but we've we've hit our time and guy, thank you so much. Um, fellas, uh gals, if you want to check out Guy Molicone Jr., you can check him out on Instagram. He's at building bird dogs. Uh yeah, you can check him out on Instagram, and then as well, uh it looks like you guys have on for Molicone Kennels. What is that Instagram?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so the Instagram for my dad's is should be MK underscore Molicone Kennels.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I've got M K Molicone underscore kennels, is that right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. M K Molicone underscore kennels.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, M K Molicone and Molicone is M-O-L-L-I-C-O-N-E underscore kennels. Yeah. Yeah, great. And uh yeah, if you're listening in the Phoenix Valley and would like to jump in on one of these little clinics that we're hosting Arizona Quail today, then go ahead and do it. And uh would love to get connected. You can Instagram direct message me or just directly communicate to Guy Jr. 100% of the proceeds go to Guy. I'm just the facilitator and supporter of his great work and love to connect with you guys through that. So, guy, thanks for being with us today.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you so much, Ryan.
SPEAKER_03All right, my friend. We'll look forward to being in the field with you real soon. Yep. All right, take care, bud. You too. Bye-bye. All right, guys. Well, that was an awesome interview with Guy Molicone Jr. If you're listening in for the first time, I'm glad that you did so. Uh, we've got all sorts of opportunities for you to learn more and go a little deeper in uh understanding Arizona quail hunting. In future episodes with Guy, we'll come back uh after we kind of highlight one of the clinics that we're partnering with at Arizona Quail today and uh share with you some of the things that we've learned, common issues, things that we walk through in the dog clinic, and then um just give you some highlights. So thanks for listening. If you like what you hear, make sure you share it with a friend. You can find more information at azquell today. Um talk to you later.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening in. To help further our work, please consider making a tax deductible gift. Visit us online at azquil today.com and be sure to follow us on social media for the latest information and updates. Till then, remember to get outside.