AZ Quail Today Podcast

Episode #58 Handle The Handler for Better Bird Dogs: Conversation with Guy Sr. at Mollicone Kennels

• Ryan Rice

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0:00 | 43:19

We talk with Guy Molicone Sr. about why the handler is often the biggest variable in bird dog training and how small changes in language and timing create huge gains. We also get honest about e-collars, rule sets at home, and what great dogs can teach us about expectations and appreciation. 
• trimming commands down to a simple vocabulary and using tone consistently 
• transitioning a trained dog back to an owner through coaching, video and a written playbook 
• learning by watching other dogs run and seeing many field situations unfold 
• using phone video to capture instruction and keep repeatable techniques 
• separating GPS tracking from e-collar training to protect timing and precision 
• treating the e-collar as a tool that reinforces known behavior rather than punishes confusion 
• never giving a command you cannot enforce and why ignored commands become meaningless 
• building confident dogs with clear yes and no rules and earned rewards at home 
• a favorite bird dog memory about Harley and how rare talent shows up in the field 
Well, you can uh visit us over at azquelltoday.com, uh, Instagram, Facebook, and uh hopefully this was helpful. If you like it, share it with a friend. To help further our work, please consider making a tax-deductible gift. Visit us online at azquailtoday.com and be sure to follow us on social media for the latest information and updates. Till then, remember to get outside. 


Connect with us: Email us at ryan@azquailtoday.com —we'd love to hear from you! 
Follow us on Instagram at @azquailtoday

Welcome And Part Two Setup

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to Arizona Quail Today, your go-to podcast for all things quail hunting in Arizona. We're dedicated to educating and inspiring the next generation of quail hunters. A big thanks to our supporters and proud partners, Arizona Outdoor Adventures, Fathers in the Field, and Marsupio Gear. Thanks for tuning in, and now let's dive in today's program.

SPEAKER_03

Alright, guys, welcome back to another episode of Arizona Coil. Today we are in part two of a two-part series of building the bird dog was part one. And then we're in the program today. We've got Guy Molacone Sr. Guy, thanks for joining us again.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. Glad to be here.

Fewer Words Better Dog Clarity

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So we're talking about the handler. And you know, I I can remember times when even when I was down there training with you, and you know, I said asked for some feedback, and you're like, man, you have like 20 commands for one command. He's and I it's funny because it stuck with me. I thought to myself, are you kidding me? And then I like I actually went back and I like wrote down all the commands I had, and I was like, Oh yeah, I can imagine how that's confusing to a dog. And then I noticed I cleaned up my act a bit, and and and your response was it's not like you can't do that, it's just it's just like unnecessary and it is confusing, so just trim it down. And I did, and then I went and I noticed other people, you know, come boy, here boy. Let's go, boy, over here, boy. You know, and it's like, well, you're saying 15 things, man.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we really want to try to narrow it down. We've got to remember dogs don't don't speak English, right?

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_01

They they they speak dog, and the best way to communicate, communicate with them is have a simple, clear-cut vocabulary with with tones, right? They understand tones, they don't exactly understand the word. Meaning I could uh happy, your dog happy, I could I could call her to me with slappy, nappy, happy. She's gonna come to all, she's gonna come, she's gonna respond to all of them, which tells me she doesn't understand English. The other way I know is because I've never heard her speak English to me.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, so you're confessing that that you but you've heard them talk dog.

SPEAKER_01

I heard them talk dog, yeah. They they showed me when I if I call her slapping and she still comes to me, um, it tells me it's it's a tone thing. We try to keep it look, we just try to keep it simple.

unknown

Yeah.

Transitioning Training To The Owner

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. You know, it the the so the the the trainer though, you know, it is interesting. How do you transition uh a dog trainer to an owner? Like, how do you do that? When I mean you do these summer camps in our last episode, if you guys missed it, you go back and listen to it. We walk through kind of what that time looks like and the philosophy and uh the the training experience you would have as a client if you were to go down there and experience that. But uh, when the guy comes back to pick up his dog, how do you transition that?

SPEAKER_01

So we for one for one, I I give people as much time as they need, meaning I will once I have trained their dog and you are my my client, yeah, and I'm your and I'm your trainer, you have my undivided attention. I mean it's it's I'm going to spend as much time with you as as you need within within some reason, but I give you my full attention, I make sure that everybody at least they can comprehend a majority of it, and then I tell them, look, you can whatever you can't take, and I don't, you know, I don't want to overload your donkey, but it might happen. Back shelf the back shelf the stuff you don't understand. We'll come to it some other time. It could be tomorrow, um, a week from now, it doesn't matter. But I just spend a lot of time with them. They they also have the videos, and then um they'll have a command list and stuff, they basically an outline. I call it the playbook on on what to do with their dog as far as commands and and stuff like that. Some of it they're just basically the the commands and and when to apply them.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I spend a lot of time with the owners and and make sure they try to make sure they understand.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I will tell you, I saw Nate get a lot better when he dropped off his dog six weeks. And I mean, I we helped sponsor that um that that uh camp with with uh Sam, his English pointer. Uh those of you listening in, Nate Estrate was was the co-host and part of the founding uh voice on this podcast, and so he he had an old dog Ron Horn had gave him and a really good English pointer, and uh dropped it off with Guy Molicone Sr. Six Weeks. I think Nate was like over in Romania or something, and he came back and we took that dog out on a quail camp. And I told Nate, I was like, Nate, your dog is doing awesome, and he's like, Yeah, I just got it back from Molicone Kennels, and I'm like, he's doing everything he needs to do. And I watched Nate clean up his language, his communication. Not that he, you know, was all of a sudden an inexperienced dog handler to a pro, but he did a lot better, you know. So I don't know how much coaching you did with him, but I I I know that you sent him videos.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, those are two good words, um, coaching and and education. Yeah. Um, my wife is a school teacher by trade, and she she told me I was a an educator. Um, and I'm like, what? No, I'm not. I'm a dog transfer. She goes, guy, I listen to you talk to people. You sound like a teacher to me. Yeah, you're educating them. So yeah, and then my students or my clients, they they they need to pay attention in class too, right? Yeah, and that helps. And there's sometimes there's guys like me that was a really horrible student, and then you have other guys and gals that are good students, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And well, I think that's important to embrace if you're gonna be a dog handler, like you need to be learning yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, you really do. You need you need to pay attention, and that's what so another thing I do too is like say if someone comes down, um, we just don't run your dog, your dog might not run first. Yeah, I might I'm gonna I'm gonna layer this thing, and we're gonna run dogs in what we call braces, right? These two dogs run first, these two dogs run next, these three dogs. Because you're gonna learn from every single dog out there. You might be seeing dogs that are just doing the foundation of what your dog did, and I'm going to point that out. Hey, look, your dog used to do this, this is where your dog used to be at. Um, and I'm gonna educate you through the other dogs as well. So I always recommend for people like, look, you don't, I know some people just have to pick up their dog and go. I get it, but if they could spend the the whole training session with us, you're you're just you're gonna benefit so much more, so much more. Because I can't cover everything just in your 30 minutes of your dog. If you stay there and watch these other dogs, other situations will come up and I can point them out to you. Okay, look at this situation here. So now these people are seeing it seeing a bunch of situations versus just what happened when their dog when their dog went. And that's that's been tremendous, is like you had asked in the first segment of this of you know what what we do a little bit, and that is that is one of the key things is trying to get people to stay out there and watch the whole thing go down and just be a part of it. Uh sometimes I'll ask them to gun if they're comfortable with gunning. Um that way they're shooting over their dog, maybe for the first time. I like to get that out of the way. It's very interactive, right? It's very interactive. I try to spend a lot of time with these people and really I if anything, I'd probably cover too much. And that's why I tell everybody just back shelf it and we'll come to it at a later.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you know, I was telling your son about this. I think I'd like to do this. Like, if I when I come down and visit with you, is um, you know, technology is so easy now, like, you know, I mean, like the iPhones are just unbelievable on uh whatever phone you got, you know, whatever smartphone. But uh the I would love to put a mic on you guys and then and then just because it's it can be Bluetooth, and then it goes from Bluetooth to to the camera because you guys are doing all this cool instruction, and just those little videos are really helpful. I mean, for a guy like me, like I mean, I've been training my own personal dogs, no competitions, very little field trials, you know, like Arizona Pointing Dog Club did that and never never placed really, really well because I always break all the rules on accident, you know. It's like okay, whatever. So, but I've been doing it since I was I started training dogs since I was 10 years old. I'm 40 something years old now. So um, but I learned that gosh, like I'm watching you and your son do stuff, and I'm like, man, what he just said right there. Oh, I gotta write that down, you know.

SPEAKER_01

You know, you know what though, that's not that's not it's funny, but it's not um when I was training with one of my favorite my favorite mentor, Bill Gibbons, yeah. I had I had a a little tiny notebook, yeah, man, and I would I would after a training session, yeah, you know, because I didn't want to write anything in my in my book in front of Bill, you know. I I didn't want to get sent home, right? Man, I'd I'd scramble back to my truck, I'd pull that thing out and just start scribbling like a madman. Yeah um and then I'd get home or the next day I'd try to read it. I'm like, oh guy, you gotta slow down. Yeah, I have no clue what that what that means, but no, it's that's that's a thing. So what I'll what I do tell people is like, listen, turn your phone on for this. Yeah, did you videotape that? Videotape this. I'm going to tell you something. I'm gonna explain something to you, videotape it. I've got no problem with that. Um, that's that's been a big a big help. The phones have been a look, the phones have been a huge help. I bet we we could we could say that the phones have helped tremendously in this process. Just just having access to take a video of me.

SPEAKER_04

I don't know, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01

You know, it'd be like teach uh if we had video of you know a famous professor teaching courses or something, we didn't have to read it in a book, we could hear it come out of right of right out of his own mouth. That's been very helpful.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, man, that's that's great. To mic our training session, you'd have to use a lot of beep beeping because you mean you'd be like I can't believe just one pretty much.

SPEAKER_01

I could probably I could probably curve it a little bit, but I can't curve curve my enthusiasm. You wouldn't hear it as you wouldn't hear it in ang like like angry, because we don't train we don't train angry, yeah. But there is a lot of excitement like beep, yeah. Did you see what that dog just did? That dog has never done that. Yeah, beep, beep, beep, beep. This is this is the greatest beep beep day ever. Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's really how it would probably sound.

SPEAKER_03

Well, that's funny. Well, I think you know, like I said, I think that I told I was telling your son when I was watching how he was doing it, I was like, oh my gosh, like, wait a second, I know the technology, I actually have it, I just should have brought it. It's just there's these really cool little Bluetooth microphones, they just clip onto your shirt and you're good to go. I mean, as long as you're within like 25-30 feet, you know, like that's the max range I think you can go with those things. But that'd be cool.

SPEAKER_01

We don't we don't know everything. I don't I don't know everything. It's just my response to things are quicker, yeah. Than than than you know, the average person. That's why I do this for a living, just through data, you know, and and touching a bunch of dogs. But there there are each dog comes, it might be a different situation where you hear me go, oh man, what do I do here? Yeah, yeah, you know, and then you'll hear a here maybe hear me say, you know what, let's just do this, let's do this. Um and sometimes we there's times where we might just invent a new technique right there on the spot. And then we'll we'll we'll slap a name on it so we don't forget. That's been a bit a hard thing to do. Is is with when you're innovating you know, when you're when you don't have any boxes that you're training in um you you start to innovate and and coming up with words for some of these things.

SPEAKER_03

G give me an example.

SPEAKER_01

Well, like Guy and I okay, I'll give you the one great example. Like, you know, one of the conversations that that started to name naming things was we had a dog that we had done something with, and it worked really great. And I asked Guy, and it's like, hey, a couple days later, maybe, hey, let's do that thing that we did with that with that short hair. Right. Remember that when we were under that tree right there and we did this and then we fired. And he goes, Well, now it's a Britney. I go, no, it's a short hair. He's like, No, it's a Britney. I go, no, no, gosh damn it. Mike, remember we did this, this, this, this. He's like, I don't know what you're talking about. And we, you know, not arguing, but yeah, just father and son.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you couldn't couldn't nail down the same story.

SPEAKER_01

No, it's like, well, if you don't know, then I don't know. You just lost a great technique, and you know, and and then finally I'm like, hey, listen, let's just, let's just, when we find something like that, let's just put a name to it, yeah. So that we can go back and and and look at it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you have a mental marker for your own sake.

SPEAKER_01

Had to, because we were we were running into that too much, especially when we started training together. Um when we put our heads together and started collaborating, um, things started really just just moving. Uh, it was going really fast, and we had to come up with some type of vocabulary, so we're not sitting there, you know, beating each other out.

E-Collars Tracking Collars Timing Problems

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's great. All right. What what what do you think for challenges today? Just you know, I don't know, challenges owners face or expectations that are unrealistic, or okay.

SPEAKER_01

Here's here's one. It might be off topic, but it needs to be said e-colors. Yeah, we have to understand that e-collars and tracking collars are different. You gotta remember they used to be separate, now they're together. They advertise it as a training collarslash tracking car, and they're wonderful, they have all these great features, but they got this this this screen that you have to scroll through. And I know you can program stimulations for your dog, but it is not. I can apply there, is no way that somebody with uh you know with a handheld tracker, yeah, can apply a stimulation high or low or in between go up and down faster than I can. It's physically impossible because I don't have to mess with with anything. My recommendation is I'm not saying don't buy them, right? Because I I do use them, right? But they're typically for dogs that have already trained. Yeah, meaning I have some site, some idea of the stimulation that dog needs in order to get the behaviors I need.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, because they're you know, you can program those into those things. You don't have to go through the screen and scroll up, scroll down, and and push buttons. Uh, I just have a little knob I turn. It's that simple. Turn and push, turn and push.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, what's the name of that opera apparatus?

SPEAKER_01

Any of them do the one I use is I use dog truck because it's got a it's real simple dial, like two or three buttons. Yeah, um, now I will say the Pro 550 Plus, I don't know. Are we allowed to talk about it?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I don't care. Yeah, yeah, I don't care. Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. We don't have any sponsors on that right now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm just yeah, I'm not plugging anything, just telling you this is this is an ongoing problem for me because like we talked about consistency, it's not just the verbals. I mean, it's it's bad enough when when someone comes out and they start speaking different languages to their dog. But what's even worse is when they missed the timing of the of the e-caller. Now everything I did is that dog goes, hey man, uh like a horse. Yeah, I got someone that doesn't know how to sit in the saddle, right?

SPEAKER_03

I'm like, or there's they're kicking in their flanks when they should be letting easing off.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they're gonna take you for a ride.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and then it it looks like the dog's not trained.

SPEAKER_03

And it's like actually, actually, you're you're just handling the dog wrong. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's not the dog. Yeah, it's just used to a very consistent, precise stimulation. Um, and it's it's just not getting it. So my suggestion is if you're gonna use one of those, then then you have to sit there and learn it. If I had to, you guys have to sit on the couch, turn the e-collar off, push buttons, learn how to control it. But still, I would always recommend just even like a a cheap, yeah, um, just training caller itself, no GPS attached to it, just to get the training in. Yeah, and then you can use your garments and stuff for for hunting once you know what your your dog's needs are as far as stimulation. It's it that is that is probably the biggest obstacle that I face right now.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I I could imagine that, you know, and you know, I mean, I've made some some significant mistakes with that. I've got the Alpha 100 Garmin, and I mean it's a good collar, it's it's a good collar. It is the GPS plus the vibration and the tone and you know the stimulation and all that. And it's a good collar, however, there's like those that screen, man, like it goes in flip-flops, and it and like so I've like popped my dog when I didn't mean to pop my dog because the buttons got re you know adjusted.

SPEAKER_01

And that's my point. Yeah, that's my point, is that we we need to be consistent and precise with that thing.

SPEAKER_03

I agree.

SPEAKER_01

And the only way to obtain that is to use a training collar, not not the combo. Yeah, um, that would be by far the the biggest obstacle I I have.

SPEAKER_03

And also I I like to keep my dog on that GPS though, just because I I you can run both, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You can you can do both. I I run the tracking training collar.

SPEAKER_03

Huh. So you'll run two collars on the dog.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Two seconds. Well, we had to because because well, you know, back in the day we didn't have garments, you just had the telemetry.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Or you just went, you just went naked.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, yeah, I mean, because a lot of the places I'm hunting, it's like, dude, you you can't a lot of times you can't see your dog, you know, just because the cover's too thick or whatever, there's too many hills.

SPEAKER_01

I know my garment my garment does have uh the stimulation, you know, stimulations, but I don't necessarily use it, it's just on there as a tracking collar, and then my training collars on the dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is cool now that I do have a backup. If some reason I dropped remote or it stopped working, my e car went dead. I do have yeah, you know, the extra one on there. And then once the dog is trained, then I'll use the the combo.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I heard I heard your son quote you, which is really cool. I said this to you earlier, but like, dude, your son, like, he Just he shows great honor towards you, and like he he he he is his own man and he's doing his thing, but he shows a lot of honor towards you. And he quoted you the other day, and I I loved it. He was this is just in a conversation I was having with him after working uh both my dogs, and he said, You know, my dad always says that an e-collar is like a hammer, you can build great things or destroy a lot of things. And I thought, wow, that's that's a great way to think about it. It's a tool.

SPEAKER_01

It's absolutely one of my tools. It's no different than when I was in construction. I honestly don't look at any different as my uh my skill saw or my hammer. Yeah, there's no difference. I I could I could build you a beautiful house or I could bash in head and cut your leg off. It just depends on whose hands it's in.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's and do you understand it's gotta be in if you you want to be a craftsman with that thing, almost like it's like it's like an instrument. Yeah, you should know it. You should know your remote in and out. What I would do on the couch when I switched um companies from one to the other, and I was using a foreign remote, I just turned the electric part off, you know, and and I just sat there and fumbled with it for hours, like a remote on the couch.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's what you gotta do with these things, especially those alphas I was telling you about, you know. I mean those things are like little computers, man.

SPEAKER_01

You're already pushing your button on your computer or push uh your hands on your remote for your television. Just put your put your e-collar in there for for a while and get familiar with it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, I think you should know where every button is and and how to access everything.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's a good word.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the time to do it is not when your dog gets on a jackrabbit.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, and uh, you know, it's funny. Um I think the e-collar system is so important though, you know, like because I don't like when my dogs say they a jackrabbit, you know, and it's been a sorry morning for hunting quail, and my dog just is like, I'm done with this. I have we haven't seen a bird all morning. I'm gonna chase this jackrabbit. Well, and the dogs say 75 yards out and the wind is blowing. Well, I got two options, you know, leave it, I could yell, or I can just uh two-tone my dog. That means come for my dog, beep beep, and my dog knows, okay, I have to come. And the e-collar saves my voice, you know, because I'm like, I'm a teacher, I like I I'm a pastor, I preach four services every week. We're doing two two two podcasts a week, and I have lost my voice. Well, meaning I couldn't do teaching, I couldn't do podcasts because I was yelling at my dog.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the tone is great. Um, yeah, it is, it's it's very important, and then the timing of it's important as well.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. I um and you know, I think for people listening in the about the e-collar, they're like, oh my gosh, well, I just see it as a hammer to destroy. I'm like, no, my dogs, if I pull out the e-collars, they're not cowering, they're actually going, they're so excited, they think this is the greatest day of their life, they can't wait to put that thing on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the point is to use it responsibly, yeah. And and if you don't know how, seek out professional help because it does have a dial on it, right? You don't you you it's like a ladder. Um, say it goes one through ten. Yeah, I I don't know why anybody and but they do yeah, why they put it on five and ten yeah and start with that. Yeah, why I don't know when there's a number one, yeah. First of all, you should never use it until you get until the dog understands the behavior, it's just to reinforce the behavior. It's a long leash, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_04

It's an extension of your exactly right.

SPEAKER_01

If your dog doesn't understand the leash, the leash uh correction or the leash command, then you can't you can't overlay it with the e-collar. The e-cars overlaid on on on known behaviors. You just don't put on the dog and say, Well, let's see if it works. Yeah, yeah. Right. That's that's when it is turned into something that yeah, a bad tool.

Never Give Unenforceable Commands

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, a bad tool. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Yeah, I I I think you know, my my dogs, like I said, they really the e-collar is a great tool, and um I but I do see that as a common error, and I've always kind of operated with the premise never issue a command that you cannot enforce.

SPEAKER_01

Meaning absolutely never, never yeah, if you're not willing or able to reinforce it, then don't give it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So so for for the people that are listening, what what that looks like in the house is I'm I'm sitting on the couch and my dog's on the other s on the other side of the house, yeah, and I tell them to sit. If I'm not if I'm not willing to get up off that couch, maybe I'm too lazy, maybe I'm too tired, I don't know. If I'm not willing and able to get up off that couch and go make sure he sits, then I should have never said that command in the first place. The other thing is is that wouldn't be the time to give the sit command as well when I when the dog's on the other side of the house. Right? Yeah, so that just going a little further into don't give a command, yeah, but you can't reinforce. Absolutely. Because then becomes meaningless once they ignore it. Look, once they ignore it a few times, they go, This guy's not willing to reinforce anything.

SPEAKER_03

I can get away with it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm gonna go pee pee on this, I'm gonna chill on the baseboard for a little bit.

Consistency Rules And Earning Rewards

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Okay, so here's another question. What what from about perspective? If dogs could talk, what do you think they'd say? This is the dog psychology question.

SPEAKER_01

I would oh well, would it stay on target here? Please show me consistency.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that I can so I can be so I can be con so I can be confident in myself. I I don't want to be a fear biter. I don't, you know, look, if we're looking at behavioral terms, sometimes these these dogs show behaviors that aren't aren't normal, but we view them as normal. When we give them a rule set, they become a more balanced animal. They need it, they've been bred for that, it's in their DNA. They they need a rule set, they just do better with one, and and spending quality time, you know, and this isn't a knock to anybody, but my time I spend with the dogs is it might be more quality time because the dog's having to perform and work, um, and it's being rewarded, it's not just getting free pets sitting on the couch or doing nothing right after it ate the head off a barbie. It's it's it's uh it's being maintained through through through work, work ethics. Yeah, and I'm not saying the dog has to work all the time, but dogs in general do better if if they earn things we pay them too early. We pay them on Monday, most people get paid on Friday, sort of deal.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I I love that.

SPEAKER_01

That could be as simple as your dog jumps on the couch for free. That shouldn't happen. What should happen is they should earn that, they should be invited on the couch. Yeah, if you if you allow them to jump on the couch on their own, they're that's when the biting, yeah, the put possessing it, you know, your your your behavior start happening. But if you say sit up, yeah, now you now you control the couch, and it's uh very simple little tiny things.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I think that's great. You know, like I've you know, I I was like, you know, like we uh open the sliding glass door, like my dogs they'll love they like to go outside, but they like to come back in, they want to be back in and they want to go to we have an indoor kennel and my office here in the studio where we're recording, but it's like the they they will if I open that sliding glass door just flippantly, then they charge in like football players, like that and so I can just allow that to happen, or I can say stay, you know, uh, and then they'll hold right there, and then I'll I can say this is so this is so annoying. Then I have to say heal and then walk them because they're just like they have like on off, on off, like zeros to a hundred, zero to a hundred.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, it's like good grief, dogs, and they and they get away with it because they're they're cute, they're cute and we love them. Yeah, but you know, if if you're if your teenager comes home with all their friends and does that.

SPEAKER_03

Yep. Or if we have a little baby over here or a granny over here, and somebody just opens up that door real fast, these dogs are gonna charge in and knock them right over, you know.

SPEAKER_01

It's a it you're you're right, it's a it's a safety thing. Yeah, but look, we we all the whole world, Mother Nature has a rule set. Um, anywhere you look, there's rules to nature, and dogs are no different. They just need a rule set, and and they'll be much much happier creatures, yeah. More balanced, more balanced.

SPEAKER_03

Well, that's good. Well, thank you for sharing that. I think that is super helpful on the perspective side. So um just understanding that dogs need that consistency from their owners, and so if a dog could talk, they might say, be consistent. Because every everything's gonna work a lot better.

SPEAKER_01

Consistent and give me a clear-cut example of what is allowed and not allowed, yeses and no's, yeah, wanted and unwanted behavior. Just tell me yes and no. You need to tell me yeses and no's. Yeah, yeah, that's what they need.

Harley The Covey Finding Standout

SPEAKER_03

Oh, that's good. That's good. All right, close us out with a story, one of your memories, favorite memories, hunting memories with a dog, um, something like that.

SPEAKER_01

Bird dogs?

SPEAKER_03

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

Or just regular dogs.

SPEAKER_03

I'd say bird dogs. I think vast majority of our bird dog podcast.

SPEAKER_01

Um gosh, I don't know. I think it would probably have to do a lot with uh my dog Harley. Um I think almost he's been was born uh I think he was born about 20 years ago. Um yeah, 2006. Yep. I think just any anything with him inside the in inside the house and in the field, most of all was was when we were field trialing or we were just doing general roading or like you know, running out in the field and he would just hit cubbies without you know, we weren't even hunting, he just he had a knack for it. And I always just looked at him and go, how did you see where the birds were? And I think that I don't think all dogs do that. And it was just a special talent. I think he just had a more dogs can have a general awareness whether it's their nose, their brains, um more than other dogs. It didn't matter where we were at. If there was quail, he just ended up finding them. Yeah, and it always it always amazed me that that that he could do that. And I think anytime he did that, it was just always for me. How the heck did you do that? Like we're not you know, we're not hunting, yeah. In a field trial, he would run off and get off course, and you know, you have to pull your tracker off, pull your tracker, you're you're disqualified, yeah. But he's standing a covey of birds, and and he's like, I told you they were over here. Yeah, so to me, he was the winner, right? It's like when no one else's dog did that, he should win.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, that's uh that's that's about how all my field trials go. Like uh, you know, like I've I've always screwed up something on something there. You know, the funny thing is about that dog though, how many like Harley you're talking about? How many dogs have you had since Harley? Bird dogs, just five, ten, three, four. Just give me a number.

SPEAKER_01

Of my personal dogs, yeah. I have I have one right now, Darwin, who who's very similar. Um, but but I I as I'm training it it's not a knock on any other dog. It's just some of them have just a better general awareness of things. I don't know. A lot of you'll hear a lot of people talk about this. They just they just seem to know where to go all the time. Um and they're not they're not all like that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, it's like my friend Dan Priest would say, he's like, you know, you know, that dog's good, but that's no Tom Brady. You know, he's like, I mean, how many Tom Brady's are there? So like you just have to acknowledge like some dogs are the Tom Brady's, and then most dogs are not, and that's okay. That's just it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, look, you know, I wanted to be Michael Jordan, but it you know, it just didn't work out. Didn't work out genetic just genetically not gifted that way, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I and I think that you know, for me, that's helped me because I'll tell people like, you know, like they're like, tell me about your bird dog, and I'm like, it's a good dog, you know. I mean, it's not like a Tom Brady dog, but it's a good dog. And and I I I always tell people too, like, Zona is a is a good hunting dog, a good hunting dog, good gun dog, and she is a decent family dog. Happy is a really good hunting dog, he's a good hunting dog, and he's a great family dog, and he will probably be a great hunting dog. And I and don't get me wrong, like both I love both my dogs tremendously. I just I just realize like not everybody gets a Harley. No, not everybody gets a Harley.

SPEAKER_01

No, and the thing is, is the one thing I've learned um to help people that maybe are thinking about getting another dog because they did lose their special dog, is one thing we do that is unfair sometimes is like like my dog Darwin now. He does he does some things that are he actually has a like a ton more style on point. Um he he does think he retrieves a lot better than Harley did. Um he there's things that he does that are better than than some of those dogs. You know, we just sometimes we're so focused on well, Harley used to do this and Harley used to do that, yeah, and you're not doing it, or you're not doing it at the same age, and and we kind of get on the dog, and and then but then you'll see something go, Oh well, Harley never did that. Like you know, he had to kind of he wanted to eat his birds sometimes. He just bring them right to me. You know, things like things like things like that. Oh yeah. And Harley, Harley, you know, sometimes in some field trials would his retrieve is a little shaky, um, getting it out of his mouth, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know, so there's little things that we have to appreciate out of out of every dog. Every dog has they'll they'll if they're bred right, we'll have certain talents that that are that are impressive. Yeah.

Staying Humble And Inviting New Hunters

SPEAKER_03

It's fun. Well, thanks for being a part, you know, for you listeners listening in. Maybe you're new to quail hunting or you're wanting to get into it, or you've been a long time quail hunter. I think there's some good wisdom in this. And I think you know, Molicone um guy, I think I see you absolutely as a top-level educator in in the dog world. And, you know, that's the the really the the essence of what we're trying to do with Arizona Quail today. It's literally it is to educate and encourage the next generation of quail hunters, and so and we say that next generation because we it's we we need a next generation to to to move forward, you know.

SPEAKER_01

And I appreci I appreciate that, and I think my my mentors, they're past now, but I think they would they would like to comment too.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you know, and it's interesting, you you know, you go to a dog trial, the average age of those guys there, it's probably in your 40s or 50s, you know, um at least. And so there's there's a lot of uh uh older folks, it's kind of like it can be like the fly fishing world, you know, where it's a little bit more high-end guys, and you know, um they can get a little snobby and all that stuff. And yeah, what I don't what I'd say is like for the for you listeners, like if you're in that bracket, economic bracket, or in that socioeconomic bracket, or you know, don't be a snob and look down on the younger guys trying to get in there, you know, that are just trying to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01

We don't want that. That's what happened to me, and that's why I try to be so available, yep, and and just stay humble. Uh I'm look, I'm just a human being like everybody else. I I don't want anybody to ever think that they can't talk to me because I'm some dog trainer. Um, but that's just it's just not a thing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's not a thing, it's all about the dogs.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, I appreciate your laid-backness too. You know, I mean, you know, if you don't want a dog, they can talk to me. Yeah, but yeah, I think it's it's super helpful, very and uh very approachable. And again, that's where I think uh you like the clubs like Arizona Pointing Dog Club, it does, it does lend itself to guys that are trying to explore, and that's exactly what I did. I was exploring the upland world and got acquainted with several folks. In fact, you that's where I've officially met your son, was out there in the one of the trials out there. So it was a great, great little opportunity there. But sure. Thanks for all you do. So, people, if they want to find you, um go to Instagram, Facebook is the where to where to go for you. Is that where they go, guy?

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Yep, okay. Yeah. Well, thanks for being a part so much and look forward to you know, uh future podcasts will tell some stories about the dog camp. I looking forward to bringing happy down and um spending some time with you, guy. So thanks for all you do.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome.

SPEAKER_03

All right, guys. Well, you can uh visit us over at azquelltoday.com, uh, Instagram, Facebook, and uh hopefully this was helpful. If you like it, share it with a friend. Um, and we'll look forward to seeing you soon.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks for listening in. To help further our work, please consider making a tax-deductible gift. Visit us online at azquailtoday.com and be sure to follow us on social media for the latest information and updates. Till then, remember to get outside.