AZ Quail Today Podcast
Welcome to AZ Quail Today, your go-to podcast for everything quail hunting in Arizona. From expert insights on local habitats to interviews with passionate hunters, join us as we dive into the world of quail hunting in Arizona.
AZ Quail Today Podcast
Episode #70 Rattlesnake Bite Plan For Hunters and Their Bird Dogs w/ Special Guest Cody Will
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We lay out a clear plan for rattlesnake encounters during Arizona quail hunts, from the species you may see in each region to the fastest, safest response after a bite. Cody from Rattlesnake Ready breaks down what helps, what makes things worse, and how to train dogs to avoid snakes before season starts.
• rattlesnake species hunters may encounter across Sonoran Desert, grasslands, and Sky Islands terrain
• first priorities after a dog or human bite, focusing on rapid transport to an ER vet or hospital
• why snakebite kits waste time, plus the biggest mistakes like tourniquets, ice, and NSAIDs
• guidance on moving to help, calling 911, and when elevation may reduce local tissue damage
• poison control as a support tool for human bites and why veterinary antivenom is not for people
• NationalSnakebiteSupport.org as a practical resource with FAQs and downloadable guidance
• Cody’s four step dog rattlesnake avoidance training using live muzzled snakes, scent, and sound
• how often dogs need follow ups, what changes with puppies, and what “retention” looks like
• simple hunter behavior that prevents bites, including giving snakes space and not harassing them
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Welcome And Rattlesnake Series Setup
SPEAKER_00Welcome to Arizona Quail Today, your go-to podcast for all things quail hunting in Arizona. We're dedicated to educating and inspiring the next generation of quail hunters. A big thanks to our supporters and proud partners. Arizona Outdoor Adventures, Fathers in the Field, and Marsupial Gear. Thanks for tuning in, and now let's dive in today's program.
SPEAKER_02Alright, guys, welcome back to another episode of Arizona Quail Today. I am on the program today. We have Cody. Cody, thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_04Thanks so much for having me again.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Cody's from Rattlesnake Ready. And today we're going to be continuing on in our rattlesnake series. This is all about avoidance and what to do if you get bit. So just a recap from last episode for our listeners. When hunting gambles quail out in the Sonoran Desert, you might bump into, especially out in the Tonto National Forest, Tucson, Wickenburg, Phoenix, Mesa, Casa Grind, those areas you might jump, fall in, not far you might bump into the Western Diamondback, Mojave, Sidewinder, Speckled. Did I miss one? Or did that cover them, Cody? And then in scaled country, what what would you know that might be the Sierra Vista, Wilcox, Benson, Tombstone, Douglas, the southeastern grasslands? What might we see?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, if you're really lucky, you might run into a Massa Saga in the southeastern corner of Arizona. But otherwise it's yeah, pretty much predominantly Mojave's and Diamondbacks. Okay.
SPEAKER_02And then Myrns Country up in the Sky Islands, boy, that's a lot of different snakes, it sounds like
Arizona Rattlesnakes By Hunting Region
SPEAKER_02Coronado National Forest area. I think last time you mentioned the black tailed, the Arizona Black, the twin-spotted ridge-nosed snake, ridge-nosed rattlesnake, and then the banded. Is that right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, banded rock rattlesnake, yep.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Which one's the smallest out of those?
SPEAKER_04Do you know? Uh probably the twin spot rattlesnake. They're a little smaller than Sidewinders, so they're uh they're they're pretty little.
SPEAKER_02And are those are those more venomous than than like any of the others? Like which one out of all those snakes would you say is the most venomous?
SPEAKER_04Um hard to say. I think they're all pretty dang similar. So a lot of rattlesnake, there's a lot of crossover in the the their venoms, so um similar toxins, different concentrations of certain toxins, you know, and and you get you get variability, but it's all kind of some of the same stuff. And uh I think all of those, being that they have a pretty small head relative to their body size, unlike a lot of other rattlesnakes, um, they're there's not they don't have big old venom glands, just full of venom. So they're still an absolute like life, you know, potentially life-threatening bite, but um, I think uh, yeah, again, just being smaller and less volume of venom, um you know, your diamondback and Mojave bites, and you know those are gonna probably be worse than any of those smaller montane ones.
SPEAKER_02All right.
First Moves After A Bite
SPEAKER_02So let's jump in, speaking about bites. If a dog or human gets bit out in the field, what's what should a hunter do immediately? Walk us through kind of a proper response for both.
SPEAKER_04And I wish so badly that I could just say, all right, here's what you do, and just kind of lay out a nice formula that you know will guarantee the safety of you or your pet. Unfortunately, there is almost nothing you can do on the spot. There's a long list of things you don't want to do that can make things worse, and so I'll get into at least mentioning a few of those. But at the end of the day, um, I think the best thing you can do starts before you even began the hunt, which is to know kind of where the nearest emergency vet is to your area, and whether that is 20 minutes away or five hours away, it is still worth it to take them there as quickly as you reasonably can, or I guess legally can too. Don't don't uh get in a car wreck on the way there. But um, yeah, when you know when venom gets in their system, at that point, it's an internal issue. And you will see at you know places like uh I guess we won't see any actually like sportsmen's type like stores, um places sell sporting goods, they'll sell like snake bike kits and things like that. Those are an absolute waste of money. They they don't work, they don't actually take any venom out, and so um don't waste your money on those. Also, don't more importantly, don't waste time trying to use one of those. And uh I would say just have a plan, have an emergency preparedness plan, know where the nearest emergency vet is, and just work on getting there as quickly as you can. And um, a good vet is going to assess the the dog on arrival and you know look at symptoms. And if you happen to be able to get a picture of the snake, you know, if it doesn't interfere with time or anything or safety, I'd say go for it. Sometimes it's it's I shouldn't say helpful, might be interesting to know. Um, I can think of one case more so as a human, actually, where it was a bite from a Mojave rattlesnake that was its venom was almost entirely neurotoxic, so it didn't have the classic like swelling and bruising, edema, like all these symptoms that would typically show up. This is a uh young girl that got bit, and she had the two fang marks, but no swelling. Um, but her lungs were shutting down, she was having muscle fasciculations, I think, and just her um there's a symptom called ptosis, which is where your eyelids aren't working properly, they're just sagging. And um, so anyway, she was experiencing all those symptoms, and it turns out it was the the snake, they actually the dad had killed it and he brought it in. And the the this is all by the way, this is all pulling from a show called Venom ER that was years ago and um all about snake bite. And the doctor, you know, you could you could they identify it as a mahogany rattlesnake because this is a guy, Dr. Sean Bush, he actually knows is snakes, and so that was a case where not typical like swelling and all that, but but anyway, I'll just say, you know, a good vet's gonna look at the symptoms, do some blood work, get an idea of how much of the anti-venom to throw at this bite, and might be a few vials, might be a ton of ton of it. It just depends on the severity of the bite. Um, but in a nutshell, they're treating the amount of venom that got into the the pet or the person, um, if it's in the case of a human bite. But um, yeah, a lot of people think it's like the size of the dog or the you know severity of the symptoms. So I guess severity symptoms usually reflect how much venom was injected. But um, you know, if X amount of venom was injected, that's typically X amount of of anti-venom is what's needed to treat it, and a good vet's gonna know how to do that. And your job is just to get them there to let them start doing their job. And I will say uh sink bites can kill a dog, they don't all survive it, but a lot of them do. So don't just immediately assume it's a death sentence, just your job of getting your dog to help and hope for the best. It should turn out okay, and that's that's about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And then is the is so like you you you know, like it you you can still walk out of like if you get bit, like get bit in the leg or something like that, you can still walk out of the back country. Shouldn't I mean you're not like gonna like go, hey, call a call, so call somebody to come pick me up because I don't want to pump the venom through my whole system, or like your dog, would you rather just pick up your dog, or do you get your dog to walk back to the truck, or what do you do?
SPEAKER_04Uh and that's that's one of those hard to answer questions only because you know what might be right in one instance might not be right in another. Um, I mean, generally speaking, there's uh the venom doesn't necessarily immediately incapacitate you. And so with the case of a like say a human got bit, you know, and I get this question all the time. This is like the the biggest, most popular question. And thankfully it's something that almost never happens, it's just one of those questions that comes up more than it actually happens in reality. But you know, bit in the middle, nowhere scenario, no help, no, no nothing around. Like, what do you do? And so, you know, you don't have self-service, you don't have a satellite phone or something. I know a lot of uh like smartphones nowadays have like an emergency satellite system thing where you can get a text out or uh or something, but let's say that's not available to you for whatever reason. Um, you know, I would say move to get back to to help because otherwise you're just a sitting duck. And you know, the the quote is time is tissue. The longer it takes for you to get help, the more damage that venom is gonna cause. But um, you know, the the bite can be painful immediately. In some cases it's not. Sometimes it's an hour later when the pain really starts to set in. So, like with at least with dogs, um, if it's a bigger dog and you're gonna wear yourself out to the point of collapse, if you try to carry your dog the second it happens all the way back to you know, vehicle or trailhead or whatever. Um, I would say if the dog is acting fine, let them walk to us you know to the point where they're they're not and then carry them the rest of the way, if that makes sense. That way you're at least saving some energy to carry them the rest of the truck, the rest of the way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, but gotta be careful with that too. I mean, as you said, and a lot of people have a fear like, oh, the venom will spread to their heart. You don't want their heart rate to get going real fast. It's not a cardiotoxin, again, it's a hemotoxin. The worst of the damage is going to be you know local to the side of the bite.
SPEAKER_02So if they get bit on a safe, like if you get bit and then you go on a short like dash to the truck, you're not like pumping venom into your heart.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, they don't want, yeah, they don't want so the partly the issue with increasing your heart rate is you're already probably having an elevated heart rate from you know the adrenaline and everything else. And then on top of that, like with especially a lot of the hemotoxic venoms, it can affect blood pressure, it can affect like you know, so it indirectly it can cause issues, yeah. But it doesn't mean it's it doesn't mean it spreads to your heart and organs if you do that. Because for for years they would say things like, oh, when you get bit, you want to keep it like below your heart. Um, now they're finding actually, no, not at all. It's actually really good to elevate um the side of the bite. And again, everything I'm saying is specific to rattlesnakes, by the way. This doesn't apply to cobras in Africa and other things, but for rattlesnake bite, you actually want to elevate because um again, the the outcome of most rattlesnake bites isn't usually death, it's usually you know pretty rough, like severe tissue damage at the side of the bite. So imagine if you like get bit in an index finger. If you keep that below your heart, and especially if you like to get it or something, which don't do by the way, that's a no-no. You're now concentrating that bolus
Walking Out, Elevation, And Common Myths
SPEAKER_04of venom in that extremity, and it's just at a high concentration in there. So it's going to wreck a lot of that tissue. Very good chance you're gonna lose that a section of that finger, if not the whole finger. Whereas if you elevate, it gets diluted over a greater area, and so you're having less damage over a greater area instead of severe damage in a small area, if that makes sense. Yeah, it makes total sense. Yep. So the general consensus now, at least for a human, you know, especially if and it tends to be, you know, hand finger, um, or if it's an ankle. Obviously, you can't elevate your ankle if you're in the middle of nowhere and you can't get help, you might need to move. But um, I would say, you know, if it's an extremity bite, yeah, work on keeping it elevated and uh yeah, just work on getting getting help. And I think if help can come to you, that's the better way to go. So um I wouldn't I wouldn't ever say move, don't drive yourself to the hospital. You know, you can get to a point where you can get cell reception or whatever, call 911. Uh I know in Arizona they take snake bite very seriously. It seems like every year there's somebody on a hike here that gets helicoptered helicoptered off a mountain to the hospital. And so, same, I mean, they do that for heat stroke too. And so that's where um, yeah, I think if you can get help, that should be the default. If you absolutely can't, you can say for some reason, no cell phone, no service, you then you don't want to just sit because then you're just you know you're not making any progress getting help if you're just waiting. Um, so yeah, work on getting to help or getting help to you as quickly as you can. And then uh again, that's really it. Like I said, elevate because uh you want to dilute the venom over a greater area. Um, and that's that's 99% of railsnake bites. Those that neurotoxic bite I was talking about earlier, slightly different, but I'm not gonna get to the weeds of that. That's more of a California, unless you guys are hunting southeastern California. No, um yeah, this this that doesn't generally as a play.
SPEAKER_02Well, what about what about like for a human, like, and say you get bit and you're like, oh, there's a vet clinic, like, but I can't find a hospital. Do you well can you get the anti-venom from the dog that from the vet?
SPEAKER_04I feel like I I feel like I can't answer that. I mean, I I you know, I mean the thing, the thing the thing with the dog stuff, it is not purified to the extent that the human stuff is. Um, I yeah, they they I mean, oh gosh, this is why I gotta be careful what I say because it's all on the internet, right? Like if I if I was the last person on earth and you know, apocalypse stereo and got bit and dog anti-venom was the only thing there, yeah, I'd probably use it. But no, it's it's uh has not been it's different stuff. It's not the it's not the exact same as the human stuff. And it hasn't been tested, hasn't been FDA approved for humans. Uh the purification process is different, and then you risk like major allergic reaction, you know, on top of your snake bite symptoms. So yeah, I would unfortunately they're just gonna forward you right to a hospital and um even if it's if it's in a rural area. Again, it's rare that it to give to get numbers, like there's thousands of snake bites across the United States every year. Only a few people actually succumb to the bite and die. And uh a lot of times when there is a death, there's there's more to the story than just this person got bit and died, like you know, medical mismanagement or other health issues that you know interfered with with treatment or they're complicated the venom or something. Or it was like, you know, drunk camper messing with a snake got bit and never went to the hospital. You know, things like that. When you eliminate all those, the the bite statistics change drastically. So, you know, a lot of people are worried about just running around in the desert just doing their thing and getting bit. And in reality, a lot of a good a good good number of the bites that happened, the person was trying to catch or kill or harass the snake, in which case, you know, you're asking to get bit at that point. So that's what I call illegitimate bite, meaning you were messing with the snake. Legitimate means it was a total act, total accident. You weren't asking for it, just you know, stepped on it, didn't see it, or whatever. Gardening, put your hand in the wrong spot, didn't realize it was there, sort of thing.
SPEAKER_02But okay, so get get just get to the hospital as quick as you can or get to the veterinary clinic.
SPEAKER_04Get to the veterinary clinic,
What Not To Do And Best Resources
SPEAKER_04yep.
SPEAKER_02Also, uh, if you're able, and you don't have to tie it off like tourniquet it or whatever.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no tourniquet, no uh yeah, no compression or anything, um, no ice, no do not take any painkillers. The the doctors will handle that. A lot of painkillers, like NSAIDs, for instance, like ibuprofen, that actually is is not ideal, and there's a few reasons why, but yeah, don't don't take any of that. Like I said earlier, there's a lot of there's a lot more don't do's, and a lot of this has just come from the reality that because there's no solid, like this is what you're supposed to do, like magic trick. Um, people have come up with stuff, and you know, you get a dog that gets bit and say it was a dry bite, and this person says, Well, I heard Benadryl works, and they just give the dog Benadryl. They go to the hospital and the dog hasn't had any symptoms and they go, Wow, that worked great. Meanwhile, it was a dry bite, and you know, no venom was injected, and so now they're spreading a rumor that Benadryl actually saved their dog. And so that's where a lot of these rumors and things have started. And again, you can go online and say, What do I do if my dog gets bit? And you'll get three or four people like me saying, get to an emergency vet, there's really nothing else you can do, and then you'll get a lot of noise of, oh, my granddad did this and my uncle did this, and yada yada. And a lot of it is fluff, it's not medically proven because trust me, if something out there, uh essential oil or supplement or drug or whatever worked perfect, um, it would be heavily studied and being pushed to to take the place of anti-venom if that was the case. But unfortunately, we're not there yet. Other thing I would mention too is calling poison control. Um, every once in a while you get not great care from a vet or a um or a uh you know, human medical doctor that's for humans. Uh not often, but um calling poison control is great, at least for for humans. For I think there is a dog poison control, but it's different. But the one for humans is 1-800-222-1222. So that's one, two, two, two. And uh by calling poison control, they will through the hospital you end up going to will help um manage your bite and make sure you're getting the right treatment and all that. And so that's a another good thing that you can do for somebody else that you're with if they can kind of get that going. Um, one other resource, because uh as I as I'm just talking more and more, it can get a little hectic as I'm sharing certain details and skipping others. There is a wonderful resource for, and this is gonna be true for hunters, for hikers, and anybody who recreates outdoors, um, a great website called nationalsnakebite support.org. It's a group of some of the top toxicologists, some of the top veterinarians that have basically teamed up, created a website with a lot of the you know frequently asked questions and answers, and they have medical studies that they cite that you could that back a lot of their statements. They talk about things like the vaccine for dogs. And if you heard there's a there was a vaccine that was available for snake bite for dogs that really didn't get shown to work great, and they did a whole thing about that. And I'll just say uh that's a great resource that talks about what to do, what not to do. And um, they have like things you can download to your phone, so um, including like the whole treatment algorithm for how a snake bite should be treated at the veterinary hospital, or in the case if it's you, you know, a medical, a human medical hospital. So anyway, I would say if you got time, go on that website, look through a lot of the FAQ, um, download some of those things to your phone. They're work they're always working on resources, um, and kind of like me with our mission to help pets and people and wildlife to live in harmony. Uh, they're trying to really push proper snake bite management on on the you know, for the person who got bit, knowing what to do and what not to do, and then uh making sure that that they are educated in the the realm of snake bite treatment so when they get to the hospital, you know, what they're being treated with and how and all that is consistent with the current standards. Um so anyway, great resource. I would recommend anybody listening to go check that out for sure. So national snakebite support.org. Bit of a mouthful, but that's it.
SPEAKER_02All right.
Dog Rattlesnake Avoidance Training Explained
SPEAKER_02Well, why why don't you share with us a little bit about what you do with uh training and avoidance training? And so let's start with dogs and then maybe close out with some tips for hunters on on what they can do.
SPEAKER_04Sure. Yeah, so I uh have essentially spent the greater part of my life now teaching dogs to keep their noses out of rattlesnakes. And so again, as we kind of discussed in the you know earlier episode and a little bit today, you know, rattlesnakes kind of get a bad rap is these venomous creatures that are out to just kill your pet or hurt you, and in reality, they're just nature's little pest control systems cruising around the desert eating rodents and things. And you know, when they get encountered by quote unquote a predator, as in you or your dog, you know, they are quick to defend themselves, and uh as would any other animal if a you know big scary coyote thing ran up to your face, sort of thing. So that's where uh you know dogs don't know better, they're curious animals, and typically when they encounter rattlesnake, just like anything else that's new, they want to investigate it. And so that typically means, you know, for a dog at least, what does this smell like? And they typically go right up to the snake, get way too close, snake perceives the dog as a potential predator, it defends itself, typically biting the dog in the face somewhere, and you know, pretty much everything goes downhill after that. So, you know, immediate symptoms include, you know, you'll see fang marks typically, not always two, depending on if both fangs penetrated or not, but typically they'll be bleeding out of the wound. They swell like a balloon in a matter of you know, minutes to hours, depending on the the location and how much venom and all those factors. But anyway, it's uh yeah, pretty horrific experience, really expensive. The anti-venom to treat the bite is really bad. So we do training to combat that. And uh, do you want me to list the process?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, maybe, maybe just so you know. I mean, I've been there before, love it, and it's you know, I describe it as kind of like a rattlesnake park, you know, for your dog to get out into, which is really interesting. I I think there's a side effect. The side effect was we we went to a dog park uh in Colorado, and one of my dogs was freaking out because he was, I think he thought it was the rattlesnake park.
SPEAKER_04Something something reminded him of our place. Yeah, and he was like still you got a good memory, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you really do. And my other dog's like, what's your problem? And my other dog, my other dog's like, I think this there's gonna be a rattles. I I think that's what was going on.
SPEAKER_04They they they did a snake training class there the week before you didn't know about or something.
SPEAKER_01Right, right, right. Maybe so. Um share what you do.
SPEAKER_04Of course, so um, yeah, so as you you've experienced, we have a um a really cool desert landscape training area uh where we do the the snake avoidance training for dogs. We also do in home lessons uh within a Certain distance of our facility. So in some cases, we'll go to people's backyards. That's where I was this morning, actually. But all to say, uh, we put the dogs through a four-step process that works pretty dang well. We uh we use live muzzled rattlesnakes, so a little extra exciting. It's very realistic for the dog. We start with a little rattlesnake first. The dog is um, you know, we have a e-collar, shot collar that we put on the dog. We take them into our, as he called it, snake park, and uh we essentially let them explore. Inevitably, they find this first snake that I have out. And again, as I was saying earlier, nine times out of ten, if not more, they spot the snake eventually and they're interested. They go up to see what it is, they get way too close. And again, snake's muzzled, so it can't bite, so it doesn't really do anything. But I go ahead and give them a jolt with the collar. Most dogs leap back as soon as they feel that, and because of the timing that I, you know, do with it, they typically blame the snake and then they're they're leaving it alone in a matter of seconds. Some dogs go back for another look, but you know, generally speaking, one to two is all it takes. And most dogs are like, ooh, I didn't like that. And they start leaving the snake alone pretty quickly, and you know, get it to rattle, give them plenty of exposure if they're done with it. Then we move on to step two. And so in the next step, there's a a fresh shed skin. So we having a big collection here uh of rattlesnakes, when our snakes shed, we vacuum seal and freeze the skins, and basically we'll utilize those for scent work for the dogs. So I put a fresh shed skin out somewhere, we get the dog downwind of it, and essentially convince them that that smell is a threat and to leave the area. And then I've got a little uh Bluetooth speaker that I hide, you know, like between boulders or bush or somewhere in the training area, and we essentially walk the dog past this spot and I play a nice loud, crisp recording of a rattlesnake and make sure they understand to flee from that sound. Uh the last thing we do, so that was step three. Last thing we do, step four, we bring out an adult rattlesnake and uh, you know, bigger than the first one, just so they got to see a couple different sizes. Usually by this point, though, they are voluntarily avoiding the snake. So if they want nothing to do with it and they're giving it space and doing everything they're supposed to, then we've got them convinced, and that is pretty much it. And so in a nutshell, you see them going from just being innocently curious toward a rattlesnake to just doing anything they can to steer clear of it. And uh nice and effective, typically sticks with them a nice long time. We do recommend coming back for a follow-up just to confirm that they remembered it, you know, eight, ten, twelve months later. But uh yeah, usually it works great. And we sometimes don't see a dog again because they had an encounter in real life, and I usually tell people if your dog finds one in nature and does perfect and avoids it, that's like a free follow-up right there. So count that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Wow. That's cool. Well, so what do you I mean, how what would you say do dog do you need to do this on a regular basis? How often do you do it? You know, that that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so um, Ken, as I mentioned, that that first this the first lesson is the foundational one. That's that's where we do the whole four-step thing. We kind of bombard them. That all takes place in one lesson, which is really convenient because most dog training takes tons of repetition. You gotta come back over and over. But no, this is uh they they get it down really well, and it's not a too good to be true thing. That the best analogy I could come up with is you know, I've got toddlers nowadays, so I very much um understand this. You know, they might be almost hopeless when it comes to learning manners, um, but they only touch the hot stove once. And it's kind of the same idea with this. So um, you know, this is like uh we're all we're almost more training them to not do something than than to do something. And so it sticks with them a nice long time. So what I'm getting at is do the first lesson that lays the foundation. That's obviously the most important. Then to confirm that that worked, bring them back for a follow-up about a year later, and uh to give you numbers, about nine out of ten dogs I see a year later. I don't have to zap them there, remember to leave the snake alone. So it holds up really well. Um, and then of course, that you know, one in ten knuckleheads get gets a reminder. But um, yeah, it sticks with them really well. Uh puppies sometimes need a little more, so I guess I'll mention that we do dogs um as young as six months, that's the line. Um we've noticed when they're a year and older, the retention is closer to nine out of ten. Uh, if they were a puppy when they first went through it, it's more like seven out of ten, remember it a year later. So still pretty high, but lower. And so we really stress the puppies come back for another round. But uh, and the follow-up, by the way, I think the better I should have just called it pop quiz because that's more what it is. We basically just put the snake out and see what they remember. Most dogs take one look at it and clearly remember it. And I've actually had dogs see the snake and run to the gate and sit like they don't want to be in a training area anymore. And yeah. But you get a strong reac you get a strong reaction like that. I usually say, okay, they're off the hook, you're probably good. You know, don't no no no reason to like do it every year the rest of their life. But like I said, we get occasional knucklehead that does kind of test the boundary a little or get near the snake again, they gotta reinforce it. Nice thing is if they're rusty, they don't have to go through training all over again. Often one good scare, so one more correction with the collar when they're near it. You can tell as soon as they feel it, they're like, Oh, yep, that's right, I remember this. And then they're often like, you can't get them near it a second time. Um, but yeah, we do recommend they come back at least once. And in the rare case, it's like a high prey drive dog or or just not very smart dog, I might say, you know, maybe make it a thing to do it every year. I also get customers that I also get customers that do it every year just for their own like peace of mind. They don't want a chance that their dog forgets it. And a lot of these dogs, you know, I think what they're actually paying for at that point is just exposure. Like they're just want they want to make sure their dog gets to see one again. They want the peace of mind knowing they still remember that it's bad. And in a way, you're preventing them from forgetting it if you're having frequent enough encounters like that, like annual. So um, yeah. So I I think I'm a terrible salesperson. I don't push follow-ups beyond that first one. Yeah. Um, unless it's
Follow Ups, Puppies, And Retention
SPEAKER_04unless it's a dog that I really feel needs it, then I'll obviously do it. But um, you know, if I feel good about them and they retained it well, then it becomes kind of up to the dog owner's discretion.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's so good. And uh, what do you I love your training facility and I need to get my dogs out there before quail season starts? And uh they're they're off at dog camp right now getting a little tune up with a pro dog trainer, Guy Molicone, uh senior, great guy. Um, but he does think stuff as well. I know a lot of these bird dog clubs will offer folks that can do that, but for those of you listening in, I'd say I've I've been to Cody multiple times. I've sent many people to him, and he does a top-notch job. So he's right there in Cave Creek. You can check him out online. Uh last uh but not least, Cody, talk talk to us about like what can hunters do to avoid being bit by a rattlesnake.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
Hunter Tips To Avoid Getting Bit
SPEAKER_04Um so it's funny because I actually got out for quail a few times last year and I ran it ran into a diamond back um in the process, which wow.
SPEAKER_02I bet you were happy about that.
SPEAKER_04I was, yes. And that's the thing is but but there's a uh you know uh even a message in that. So, you know, I was happy, I got a good look at it, I got some pictures, and I kept hunting. You know, it was just like a cool wildlife encounter, just like I often see some other stuff too. Um saw some javelino at the spot for the first time as well. That was kind of cool. So um I'll just say, you know, really all you gotta do is, you know, if you find one, be glad you noticed it, because now you know where the danger is, you know. So like you know, in a way, people people see it and think it's a problem because they saw it. There's tons of snakes you didn't see and probably walked by, especially when your attention is more on the horizon, you know, taking shots in the sky at these birds rather than right where you're stepping. You know, sometimes these things surprise you because you're not necessarily watching every single step, um, especially like dove hunting and other stuff too. But um, but that's where uh, you know, again, if you see it, the danger's over, you know where it is, just leave it alone. Um, give it space. You know, if there's plenty of other people or or dogs with you, you know, obviously, you know, move move away from that area. Um, if the snake feels threatened by you, it may go ahead and hide, it may go down a hole and then it's just out of the way entirely at that point, um, or it may just, you know, stay put. But bottom line, leave it alone and uh get on with your day. Now, of course, if it's um right in the way, uh I mean, when you're hunting, there's so much land that it almost seems so I get a lot of people to ask me, like, especially in a hiking scenario, like there's no way around it. What do I do? There's almost never no way around it, unless it's like a canyon, like straight up vertical wall thing where you can't climb, you know, climb around it.
SPEAKER_01There's usually a way around it, but uh but what if I fall into a pit and the only way out is to go around this snake? Exactly.
SPEAKER_04It's like uh you just have bad luck then, I guess. I don't know. But um, yeah, but that's where you know, say it's it's really like right in the way. Um a lot of times if if it feels threatened, especially if it's rattling or or on the move, if it's on the move, you can just you know let it keep going. If it's not on the move, but it feels threatened by you and rattling. I get a lot of fun stories of like, yeah, I saw the snake on the trail or on the path, and it just wasn't moving. And you know, the snake later that day is telling its buddies the same thing, like this human would not leave me alone. And uh that's not actually what happens, but you get what I'm saying. It's a lot of times when there's a threat, they don't want to run away because they're actually not one of the faster snakes. They would rather sometimes they'll try and get away or slide away slowly, but they're not really uh if they take their eye off of the threat and just try and run, you know, think about it in nature, especially with our dogs. If something runs, usually that they're gonna go after it. And it's just like that instinctive nature to chase after it. So they don't want to be chased, they don't want to be harassed. So they will often kind of hold their ground per se and uh try to intimidate you or whatever. And that's where sometimes if you just step out of sight for two two, three minutes, walk back up to that spot, that thing's probably gone. It probably thought, okay, okay, good, that scary predator left. Yeah, now I can now I can continue on my way. And a lot of people think, yeah, like throw rocks out of there, harass it. That's just gonna make it more upset, more likely to bite, and uh because you're just harassing it, yeah. I would step out of sight, give it a minute, and then see if it moves on. Yeah, and that would be, I guess, some other advice.
SPEAKER_02Well,
Photos, Where To Find Cody, And Wrap
SPEAKER_02thank thanks for for doing this podcast with us. In closing, I want to show I want to share. Um, I was looking on your Facebook page and I pulled one of these cool photos off for the podcast, and it looks like a big old, I think it's a Mojave, I'm not sure. Uh and it's there's all these swarrows behind it, and this snake is perched up in the grass. I mean, it is in striking position. Whoever got this photo was crazy.
SPEAKER_04Uh is that uh is it on our website?
SPEAKER_02It's on your Facebook page. So on all your photos. It's like a massive rattlesnake. I mean it's in a big, it's in a big threat posture. Oh, yeah, yeah. It is it is kill mode.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I'm looking, I know it's on our website somewhere. I won't sit here and look for it for too long, but uh, a good friend of mine, uh Joshua Coe, he's photographed, he's he's very he's like a videographer, photographer, and all that. Uh I believe he took that picture and gave me permission to use it. I think they used that picture somewhere in one of the Arizona highways.
SPEAKER_02Well I hope they don't get on to me because I put it on the podcast thing.
SPEAKER_04No, you should be fine. Yeah, I've used it on the website. It's it's Josh, it's Josh Coe's picture, and he's I've he's given me rights to use it. So you're gonna call it.
SPEAKER_02One time I used a photo. I kid you not, I started it as Arizona Quail, but I used a photo that I was in my um it was on the Facebook page or something that I inherited this organization. I used the photo and then I get a lawsuit after me.
SPEAKER_01Somebody sued me the first post I ever made. Oh my gosh. It was like, dude. Yeah, so anyway.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's why they like carefully use your own stuff all the time. Oh, I know that I know now they have things online where it just like it's like it automatically gets found somehow. Yeah. But you know, I I get it. Like, don't steal people's stuff, but also yeah, if you if you if you inherited that, it should have been yours to use. It should have been whatever. That's that's a rabbit trail. I guess it's easy.
SPEAKER_02It looks like a Mojave.
SPEAKER_04Um, but it's if it's the picture, if it's the picture I'm thinking of, it's actually a diamondback.
SPEAKER_02Oh, is it? Um just doesn't have the real distinguished marks on it, like I would imagine.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so diamondbacks tend to be a little more subdued coloration. Mojaves tend to have a little higher contrast, like blotches, and uh there's some tail striping differences, some head scalation differences, but that's for a whole nother episode if you want to get real nerdy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's so cool. But this is a great photo. So well, thanks for spending the time with us today. And uh any lasting comments you want to share with our listeners on where they can find you or how to get connected to you guys?
SPEAKER_04Uh as you said, we have social media. I'll admit I'm not I don't post on it a ton, but we do use it. So Facebook, Instagram, just look up Rattlesnake Ready. Um, we have uh a rattlesnake zoo. If you ever want if you want to learn, if humans want to learn about them, if you want to show kids, friends, family a big collection of rattlesnakes. We have a separate rattlesnake website for our zoo. Uh it's called Rattlesnake Ranch AZ. Uh rattlesnake ranchaz.com is the website, but that's the um the zoo. And then the dog training is a different website, which is rattlesnake ready.com. So if it's more of the dog thing you're interested in, you can find us there. We're one and the same. Both websites point back to the other. And if you come here to have your dog trained, you get to see the zoo. It's the admission is included with the dog training. So um that's there.
SPEAKER_02But I gotta take advantage of that. I gotta take advantage of that. I always do the dog training and forget to look at all the snakes.
SPEAKER_04I mean, now now people, you know, they're their dogs spooked they want to take them home, so they don't want to, you know, but yeah, I mean, at least you know, put them in the car get they see, go on, do a quick lap, see what's here. There's some cool.
SPEAKER_02Heck yeah. Well, I look forward to connecting with you uh sometime before uh October. So um thanks so much for breaking all this down for us, Cody. That that's that was really good. So, well, that's it, guys. That's a wrap for this episode. Thanks for listening to Arizona Quail today and uh stay safe out there, watch your step, and uh hope you catch the next episode.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening on how further are we? Please consider making a productible visit online at OPQLTode.com. Be sure to follow us on social media.