The Mezzanine Floor
The Mezzanine Floor is a podcast that creates a space for conversations concerning the christian life as we walk out living in the tension between heaven and earth.
Join our host, Pastor Malachi Maillot and his guests as they wrestle with how we ought to live with a heavenly mindset in an earthly body.
The Mezzanine Floor
Ep 12 - Turning Weakness into Strength | Malachi Maillot & Norm Sawyer
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In this episode, Malachi meets again with Norm Sawyer to talk about his new book “Falling From the Sky” and how we can turn our weaknesses into strengths with the grace that God gives us. They discuss how our personal outlook on our lives can keep us in a place of shame and negativity if we don’t shift our perspective on our identity.
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If I would just confess this stuff, it would have no power over me whatsoever. Because the moment it's confessed, right? The moment it's out, the enemy has no more power.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's gone. I know who I am in him. But the moment I start blabbermouthing who I am. My pride steps in, right? And it doesn't let me, it doesn't let me hand over uh the reins to God. Well, yeah, you can go off grid and you can go live and be a hermit and that, but you've only got so much potential there. Yeah. And how are we gonna bring the kingdom of God to earth if we are not doing it together?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, welcome back to the Mezzanine Floor Podcast. I'm your host, Malachi. This is the podcast where we talk about living in the tension between heaven and earth. If you're listening on any Apple or Spotify apps, uh make sure you follow the Mezzanine floor so you don't miss out on any episodes. And if you're watching on YouTube, you can see our lovely faces. Uh, make sure that you like the video, share it with somebody uh that you think would love to hear this kind of podcast, and uh follow the channel. We're actually, it's uh our church's channel. It's not the mezzanine floor, but it's our church, KCC Church. So you can find us there as well as you know, comment down below if you like it. If you don't like it, you can tell us what you think. Um, but I'm so excited to welcome back again. We have Norm with us back. So welcome, Norm. Oh, yeah, we got we've got the audience participation. I asked for this last time and I finally got my wish.
SPEAKER_03I'm actually really happy to be back. This is a fun podcast, by the way. It is. Thank you for having me back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and last time we we have you back for you know multiple reasons because we like you, and because last time we had like over 4,000 views on our podcast, which is just so cool. Praise God. So we're bringing you back. He's got the secret sauce. People want to hear what he says.
SPEAKER_03So we got you back. Jesus is the secret. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, so since last time we had you on, you've been busy. Yep. Um, can you tell us what's new in Norm's world over the last few months?
SPEAKER_03The last few months I've um written another book that you're you're actually reading.
SPEAKER_01I'm actually re I'm reading this book right now.
SPEAKER_03Uh I've started another one. Uh I've been given an assignment uh by the Lord uh this year. Every at the beginning of every year, I always ask, What do you want done? you know, like what do you want me to do? And he said, Well, I want you to turn your weaknesses into strengths. And that struck me because I'd felt I'd already been doing that. Yeah. But he started showing me uh a lot of other little things that needed to be done, and that where I was weak, I had to become strong. And I realized that um that is really uh half the scripture, isn't it? Yeah, is that uh God uses the weak. God uses the things that we need, yeah, and He uses what we are in order to get the things that we need. Yeah, that's true. And so when this book when this book came out, one of the the things that I find a lot of the Christians are having a hard time with is they tend to believe the enemy when he claims that they're gonna fall from their position in God. But we are seated in heavenly places and we cannot be knocked out from there unless you want to leave.
SPEAKER_01Sure, yeah, yeah. And we talked about that on a previous podcast.
SPEAKER_03You know, unless you want to, a choice of yes, yeah. And and so what what we were I was looking at was that um is that Satan fell from the sky. He he he's the only guy, and and it says Jesus said, I saw him fall like lightning. Yeah, and so what he's trying to do is give you his character and give you his problems and give you what he's gone through. And in this why he's always accusing you and trying to get you to believe you're gonna fall from the sky, but you are so secure because you're seated in heavenly places, yeah. And that's what I felt needed to be written about.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and the book is called Falling from the Sky. Yeah. So I'm sure that we're gonna have a link. We're gonna have a link in the description if you yeah, if you want to pick this book up. Um, so that's awesome. I've been reading it, it's been really good so far. I uh I texted my wife some repentance texts today, if I'm honest. It was hitting me, it was hitting me in my in my in my soul today, actually, just like some of the things you'd written in here. So thank you for uh first of all giving me the book and uh thank you for writing it. But uh, you know, like you, like you said, um turning your weaknesses into strengths. Um, you know, this is kind of what we wanted to talk about on this podcast was kind of surrounding um the challenge of well, first of all, that's a that's a big ask. It's a big ask because out of everybody, yeah, out of out of anybody, not just you. Like that's right, yeah. Like that whole idea of of exposing our weakness is really difficult in this world of judgment. Yeah, in this world of and so so again, why why uh you know why is it why do you think it's so difficult and why do you think people have such a hard time um with that whole idea of exposing our weakness and saying, um, you know, as the Bible tells us to actually boast in our weakness, and we're gonna get to that, but why is it so difficult for us, do you think, in your opinion?
SPEAKER_03I th when we when we build our own personas, when we build our own life built upon the building blocks that we've created, your life kind of looks like Dr. Zeus, uh one of his books, right? Like one of his contraptions, right? And everything is balanced and it's based upon this half-truth, and it's based upon that uh that sin that I'm kind of secretly hiding. And it's ba and all of a sudden er everything, and I and I need you I need you to like me because I was created to be loved.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And if I'm looking for love in all the wrong places, which is within my peers, within the world, within and if I'm not focused on the one who created me and to love me right, then shame comes in, right? Then all then we start, you know, like uh all the stuff that that happened in the closet and all the stuff that happened way back then, and and the enemy starts bringing that back. But what we have to realize, if I would just confess this stuff, it would have no power over me whatsoever. Because the moment it's confessed, right? The moment it's out, yeah, the enemy has no more power. Yeah, it's gone. Yeah. And and and and you and you're washed clean. So I think that's that's what it is, is that we build our own egos and our own ideas and our own pride. And it just is totally contrary to who God is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that and that's kind of like what I wanted to get to too, is like how scripture, um, like Paul talks about it this way. And often I think like we did we like to do the opposite, where we we hide behind, like you're saying, we hide behind our weakness, or or we overcompensate for that weakness. As is almost like we try to pretend. Yeah, we pretend that we're we're strong, or we pretend that we're we're we're not a weak person in this area, or we don't have this flaw, or we don't have this, you know, inability.
SPEAKER_03And we're doing it in our own strength, versus when the Lord says, let the weak say I am strong, yeah, like he wants you to say it, but he wants you to say it in him. Yeah, and that's the difference. Where now you're saying I'm strong. Yeah no, I'm strong in Christ. Yeah, I know who I am in him, but the moment I start blabbermouthing, yeah, I I've my pride steps in, right? And it doesn't let me, it doesn't let me hand over uh the reins to God. Right. That's what Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I wanted to just kind of I wanted to read this first, um, this verse Corinthians 12, and then I wanted to talk about it a little bit because it's I think it's really important to kind of catch this, and this is really what we are talking about today, is what Paul talks about in this uh chapter, in this verses nine to twelve. It says, But he said to me, This is Jesus talking uh to Paul, My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect, and weakness, uh, therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest upon me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weakness, in insults, and hardships, and persecutions, and difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. Oh, Louis. And that is it is really like it's a it's a two kind of pronged thing. It's like a really powerful verse, but it's also a really bothersome verse for us because it's like Because I have to admit my weakness. It's like a double-edged sword, right? Because it's like, how do I how do I boast in my weakness? How do I get to a place where I'm in a sense proud in that's in that way of like not like not like pride, but I was like God not the pride of the worm? Yeah, not the pride of the worm, exactly, but like I'm I'm proud to say that this is where I'm weak because you know God's intervening in this area and I'm seeing it. Well, I can use in my own life, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I was illiterate. Yeah, what a weakness. Yeah, well, it was a weakness, right? And uh and and and when um God suggested I started writing a blog, I said, Do you know who you're talking to here? You're talking to a guy who can't spell, can't read. Yeah, like yeah, what do you want me to start a blog? Did you get the wrong guy? Yeah, like what is I said, I'm weak here. And he says, Will you do it? I said, I'll do it, but I can't do this alone. He says, I'll bring the people around you to help you do this. And now I can boast in my weakness because we have 17 books out there. Yeah, we have uh over 600 some articles on a blog. We we I can now boast in my weakness, but I know who did it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03It it is I know who did it, and and thank God for the brothers and sisters that he brought into my life to surround me and to bring open that gift up, yeah. And which again shows how we need each other, don't we? Yeah, I need my my uh my editor, I need my editors, I need my publisher, I need I need these people because because I'm weak, they make me strong. And while they're making me strong, God is making them strong. Yeah, oh praise God, right? Yeah. When I was remember we talked about when I had the stroke and I was very sick, that was a weakness. And it took, it took day after day after day to keep admitting, Lord, I'm weak, but I'm gonna get up and walk that kilometer. I'm gonna get up and go do that two kilometers. I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna keep on doing it until something breaks. And like uh like like right now, like uh I hate squats. I I don't know many people that do like squats, man. It is a painful exercise. But what I find, I said, okay, Lord, how do we turn this weakness into a strength? And so what he started showing me a new routine as I'm working out. If I'm doing curls before I put them away, I do squats with them. I go do this. Oh, before I put that away, do a set of squats with them. I'm gonna turn that weakness into a strength. I don't like it, but I'm disciplining myself to turn a weakness into a strength. Yeah. And in a lot of cases, we have to get drastic. You know when he says, Yeah, if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off, cut it off. Now he's be he it is, he's uh it is symbolic.
SPEAKER_01Yes, but he's doing like go and take a axe off of your hand. Unless, unless it's literally the only option unless it's gangrus. Yeah, but it's more like it's more like throw your cell phone out and get a stupid phone. And don't use the smartphone anymore, kind of thing, right?
SPEAKER_03Like do what it takes to get what I'm telling you to get done.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's too hard, Lord. Well, I don't know. Well, I you become a whiner. Well, no, cut that off.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And well, well, Pastor So-and-so doesn't have to cut it off. I'm not talking to Pastor So-and-so, I'm talking to you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I need you to get rid of that. And and uh there's there's things I had to do last year in order to deal with certain angers and deal with certain things. I had to cut it off. Yeah. Uh I had to stop watching the news. I have removed every single news channel on my Amazon stick, on every you there is no news channel available to me anywhere in the world. Wild. I had to, because every time I would watch it, I would start getting angry. And and it was like being um, it was like the world is in permanent road rage whether they own a vehicle or not. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And that this this anger, I'd say, Lord, I don't want to deal. I don't want to be this way. Yeah. And you'd say, stop watching it. And I became a happier person. I right away I went, I learned how to fix my washer and dryer. I wrote I became productive, but I became happy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And suddenly I'm talking to the Lord and I'm hearing his voice, and I turned a weakness into a strength. Totally. Praise God.
SPEAKER_01Hey, that's that's beautiful. Because and and I think you were you were saying too, um, before you got into that story, you're saying you got people around you.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. Would you say that that's a big key? If you're if you think that you're some lone maverick, if you think you're gonna pull Christianity off alone, you're deceived. Because the what's the main love law, right? Love the Lord with all thy heart. Yeah, and thy neighbor? Well, what are you gonna do without a neighbor? Well, yeah, you can go off grid and you can go live and be a hermit and that, but you've only got so much potential there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And how are we gonna bring the kingdom of God to earth if we are not doing it together?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because we in North America in particular, I know it's not around the world, it just seems to be here. We we live in this escapism kind of of uh Christianity where, oh, uh please let's bring the rapture. Uh, we we gotta get off here, we gotta get off because the everything's gone going uh going to hell. And meanwhile, the rest of the world who's living in persecution, that they're praying, thy kingdom come. Yeah, and and to well, if the world is a mess, if we would start bringing the kingdom of God here, it might not be so bad a mess. Yeah, but we're too busy trying to escape. Yeah, totally. Yeah, so so how do we turn that weakness of fear into a strength and start saying, No, Lord, thy kingdom come. I and and I can't do it without you. Yeah, yeah. I need I need Pastor Malachi in my life, okay, because every time he preaches, I always learn one new thing. I always do, I love it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's news and and happiness to my ears.
SPEAKER_03I always learn one new thing. Well, I need that one new thing, yeah. I need uh I need Pastor Brian uh speaking to me about how we're we're heading in a certain way. Yeah, I need Brody speaking into my life. Yeah, they're saying, Well, Norm, didn't you teach those guys in Bible college? Aren't you uh didn't yeah, but that but God put them in my life as pastors, yeah, and God has now allowed me to serve them, yeah, and God is bringing me up because I'm need the body of Christ. That's right, yeah. Praise the Lord. Yeah, amen. Yeah, that's we gotta we got we got a hallelujah from the audience here. Yeah, producers shouting you down.
SPEAKER_01No, that's awesome. I and I think that is key because we we can't do life for a lot. I was we were talking about this before. Um you know, we just I just started the carnivore diet with my with my my buddy Jamin and Aaron. And I, you know, even you said like diets don't work because we don't we can't really stick to them. And and so for me, like I don't like like I don't like watching what I eat because I like to eat everything, and that's been my whole life.
SPEAKER_03So how do you turn that weakness into a strength?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly like what you said, like just cut cut some things out, but but again, like I could I could try to do it on my own, but by day two, I was ready to quit. I was ready to quit. So we started a group chat and we've been we text each other every day, updating keeping each other accountable, keeping each other accountable, right? And I'll and you you talk to my wife for five minutes, and you will it's some days are miserable because I just get I get moody, but it's but it's all the junk that I had put in myself beforehand that it's detoxing. And so, but I wouldn't be able to do it if I didn't do it with some people, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because I agree, I agree.
SPEAKER_01Again, like it's it's not the only antidote, but it is a big key factor when when we want to change something in our life.
SPEAKER_03And I need you to succeed at this, yeah, whether I believe in the diet or not. Exactly. But I need you to succeed because if you succeed, then you're going to become wiser in what you're doing, and you're gonna become smarter in your Christian walk, which means that's going to eventually elevate me. Yeah, exactly. We need each other's. You have a particular secret of the universe that only you and God know. He created it and put it within you. And it it says, uh, it says that he says, I'm gonna give you a white stone, and he said, and I'm gonna give you a new name that only you and the Lord knows. Wow, wow, okay, that name and is that pet name that he's gonna call you is what's going to make you so special. But as you develop and become that, you could are now speaking into my life. And you might say a sentence, and I'll go, I need that, I need that because I've been looking for an answer for this thing I've been working on, and I've been writing around it, and I just haven't had the words. And suddenly you come out with the words. There it is, there's the sentence. Yeah, I got it. Thank you, God, for creating Malachi. Thank you. I needed that. Amen.
SPEAKER_01No, that's awesome. Yeah, we need each other. And that and that kind of brings me to another, well, it kind of just segues right into what the next part, because we um like obviously within that, there there's a there was a chapter in your book called Shame Speaks Loudly. Oh, and and what it reminded me of is like when we try to do it on our own, right? Like, um, and there's a very popular saying that I'm sure most of people have heard uh is we are our own worst enemy, yeah, right? We look in the mirror and we see everything that we don't like, we see all the flaws, we see all the mistakes, we see the past flaws, we see the past mistakes, and it's it's like we kind of We see ugly, we see ugly, right? And and it and it obviously it takes a lot to change that kind of mentality, but um, you were talking about in that specific section about uh shame speaking loudly and how it can often be like when we have when we when we are making mistakes and we are kind of living in um even habitual sin or we have like that that that weakness, we call it a weakness, but it's also probably just sin in our life where we struggle in that area and we don't expose it. It's almost like shame becomes that loudest voice in our life, right? And and and I wanted to ask you, like, how do we when we're in those situations, when we in when we're in that mindset, what's what how do we combat that? Like especially especially when we're in like the valley where we we don't really see a way out, or we we maybe people like I've met people just struggling where they just they they can't they make maybe one step of of victory, but then it's just right back, uh, where they just they just kind of slide back really quickly. And it's and again, it's like that shame sin cycle where we get caught in that and we you know we go a week and we're like oh okay, I'm doing really good, and all of a sudden we have a weak day and it and it and it we mess up or we we get back into that little space. Like, how do we combat that place?
SPEAKER_03Well, your word we, we, we keep doing it on our own is the issue, isn't it? If I don't know who I am in Christ, if I don't believe that I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, if I don't believe that I am an heir of his salvation, if I don't believe that I am clean, thy my thy my word has made you clean, that's one of the characters of who you are. Yeah. Clean. Well, if I'm looking in the mirror and I I see ugly. I need to start saying what God says I am. And this is when He says, Let the weak say I am strong. You know, let the redeemed of the Lord say I am redeemed. Now the enemy is going to keep telling you all those messy things that you are. He knows your history. He's been around. He's been he's been keeping track of things. And he knows which buttons to push, in particular, that bring you shame. Yeah. And and and shame is is a is a is a weapon that reaches down into the area that affects our humility. And I'm I'm, you know, we're we false humility too, right? When the Lord says, humble yourself, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time. Well, how do I humble myself?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, he says, by casting your cares upon him, for he cares for you. Wait a minute, wait a minute. The word care in this case is the word marimna in in the Greek. And the word marimna is sorrow, grief, anxiety, suffering of the mind. And that's what shame is. It's doing all those things to you, isn't it? Anxiety gives you anxiety, your your sorrow, there's grief. You can't get out of it. And the Lord is saying, hang on here. He says, humble yourself. And we get this strange uh Hollywood impression of humility is all throwing dirt on ourselves. Sackloth and ashes.
SPEAKER_01Ripping our clothes. Sackcloth and ashes, right?
SPEAKER_03But but in reality, humility is handing over our sorrow, grief, anxiety, suffering of the mind on him, because he sorrow, grief, anxiety suffers of the mind for you. So do you know how to sweat blood and live? Well, Jesus pulled it off, but I I don't know how to do that. Yeah, but he sweat blood and lived for that anxiety, the sorrow, the grief, that's right, that attack on the mind where shame comes from. Yeah. So wow. So how do I get rid of the shame? Is I start believing what God says I am.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Is that easy? No, it's an exercise. Doesn't the word say study to show yourself approved? A workman rightly dividing the word of truth. Wow. Well, that's a word of truth. Yeah. Okay, I've got to rightly divide this. He said that I'm strong. I sure don't feel like it. Come on, Norm, repeat it. Lord, I just don't feel it. Would you just say I'm strong? In Christ, I am strong. Oh, I felt a little better. What's another weapon? You know what? I haven't said thank you in a while. Lord, I haven't been grateful. I haven't been putting my thank yous out there. I I want to thank you. I want to thank you that you've just told me to say I'm strong. I want to thank you to say that I am redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. And suddenly I'm overcoming the enemy by the blood of the Lamb and the testimony of my heart, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Whoa.
SPEAKER_03Suddenly shame starts to leak out. And its voice has no more volume. Because then the volume of God's voice, you start hearing again. Yeah. And you're going, Oh, I'm getting my peace back.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I needed that, Lord. Thank you. But was it easy to go through that? No. That's the battle. We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but prince powers. Yeah. That's what we're wrestling.
SPEAKER_01Hallelujah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Does that answer what you're saying?
SPEAKER_01I mean, you answered, you answered it beyond what I could answer it. So um kind of like going on that thought too, and really just kind of um kind of coming back to what Paul says is uh uh or what G what Jesus says to Paul is my grace is sufficient. Well yeah. Um and that got me really thinking about how um it's almost like being independent is the most popular thing that we can do as human beings. Where where it's almost as if God's kingdom is saying, hey, the opposite should be true, where we should be completely dependent on God. But it's but it's that human kind of, you know, especially and especially when we're when we're in that sin and shame cycle. I think another thing that keeps us there is, well, I'll just fix myself. I'll just fix it myself. Right, nobody cares. Yeah, I may as well do this. I'm just on my own here. I'm just gonna I I can do this. Like it, you know, maybe, maybe it'll take me years, and you know, maybe when I do this, or maybe when I get married, or when I got this amount of money in my bank account, then I'll fix it, or then it then the problem will go away. But I think that again, God's saying, like, hey, I am sufficient for you. So how do we flip the script? Like, that's a and again, it's a not an easy thing to do, like, especially like just like practical kind of first steps. Like when I when I hear all around me and the world culture says, you know, you know, take care of yourself, be independent, you know, don't rely on anybody else, don't, don't look to this person, like the only person you can trust is you. And it kind of just con I feel like that's what that's what the the culture is trying to tell us to do, but well, that's not saying that.
SPEAKER_03That's what heathenism is. Yeah, that's what it is, by the way. We live in a heathen society now, yeah, because that's what that is. It's what I want and it's what I believe. And and when Lord, when Lord is saying, look, he says, My grace is sufficient. All right, what does grace do? What is grace? Yeah, right? It is God's ability within us. It says, for the grace of God has appeared, Titus 2.11, for the grace of God has appeared onto all man teaching us to abstain from evil.
SPEAKER_01Is that would you say that that's like the the idea of common grace or is that something different?
SPEAKER_03I I think this grace is the grace that um remember we were saved by grace. Yes, yeah. Okay, and I got and I got was saved through unmerited favor. There's nothing, I there is nothing in me. I was saved by God's grace. Yeah, but Jesus was full of grace and truth. Well, there was nothing unmerited about him. So what kind of grace was it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Ah, okay. So now that I accept Christ, because I was by grace, unmerited, totally didn't earn nothing. It was a gift of God. And I received the gift of God, and then I'm filled with Jesus' grace, the same one he had, which is God's ability in you to extend grace, unmerited favor. That's right, yeah. Okay, where were we going with this, bro?
SPEAKER_01Um, I was I was kind of asking. I was asking about like um Grace. Efficiency on God and independence. So now is that a word? Independentism. Independentism. Independency. Well, we'll we'll make it one.
SPEAKER_03Someone to fact check us in the comments. So now that I see now the grace says it says, for the grace of God has appeared onto all men. Now we either accept it or we don't. Now, once I've accepted it, what does grace do for me? Uh, the ability of God in me, what teaches us to abstain from evil? Grace doesn't give us permission to go out and sin. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Grace teaches us to abstain from sin. Now that is the grace that he says is sufficient for you. Okay. That grace that I've put in you that is teaching you to abstain from evil is the grace I want you to grow in and to become who I called you to be in. That grace. That's beautiful, yeah. And that's where we start messing up because uh because what we do uh when we start trying to earn grace or we start trying to earn God's love. Remember, in the garden, there was a tree of good and evil, yeah, right? They ate of the tree of good and evil. Good and evil, the fruit of good and evil is the same tree. It doesn't matter how much good you do, yeah, yeah, it doesn't amount to anything because good and evil are of the same tree.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But you we have to eat from the other tree that was in the garden, which is the tree of life. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so now the tree of life is Jesus Christ, and we have accepted him, and we eat that tree. Yeah, now we're saved onto good works. Yeah. But as far as everything out there is when we start reversing it, our ego gets in the way, our pride gets in the way, and we start performance orientation again, right? Yeah, well, then good and evil remains in that tree, it just goes in circles and you don't get anywhere. Yeah, but the moment you apply the grace that was given to you, yeah, and you go, Ah, I needed you, Lord, here. Thank you for and what is repenting in the New Testament? I change my mind. Yeah, right. I repent, I change my mind. I I don't want to get into my own works here because it just keeps me in the circle of good and evil.
SPEAKER_00Good and evil, good and circle of shame. Yeah, yeah. Everything like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Have you ever like, do you have uh any like have you experienced that where you um were just trying to fix everything? Um, like you're just trying trying to be Mr. Fixit in your life. Like I feel like I feel like especially as guys, we have this innate kind of reaction to to life's problems where we just want to fix it now and it needs to be done now. And I think, you know, especially, you know, as we walk through life, like like like we were saying, like we have that kind of wild just pull to be an independent. And so for you, like, is there was there a time for you that was like just I'm just trying, I'm just gonna fix it on my own. And how did that oh, what's there ever? How did that end up?
SPEAKER_03I was I was sharing this last night in a class. We were talking about it. Uh I had come, I had I was in ministry, and uh, I was you're this, you're that, you're a prophet, you're a teacher, you're a pastor, you're you know, like and and and and here monkey performing to all of these things, right? Like uh, and uh well I do this and I'm gonna carry it all and this and I'm wearing out, right? Yeah, like like what happens. And one day I I'm I'm sick of it, I'm fed up with it, and I and I'm not enjoying Christianity. I'm not enjoying God. I'm just uh I don't like myself, Lord. I don't like what I'm becoming, yeah, and what Christians are telling me I am. So I literally took every pastor's paper I had, every transcript in Bible college, all of my marks, every single thing, all of my notes, every sermon I ever, I shredded everything. Wow. I sh I shred, you know our recycling bins that we have? Six inches short of the top. That's wild. Every set of praying hands, every set of in those days, discs, uh cassettes, uh sermons, cassette sermons, all the radio sermons, everything I had ever written down, everything that declared I had been to Bible college, I had been a minister, I had been a pastor in Australia, I'd been one in Canada. Everything that declared I was a Christian, I shredded everything, threw it all away. Dramatic. If if your hand causing you to sin, if you're you know, I've I have to do something drastic, right? I I gotta fix this, right? Yeah, because that's the problem. I'm trying to fix everything. And I say, and I need faith here. And I said, Okay, I I shredded everything, threw it all away, and like a gymnast, I stood there and I said, Okay, Lord, who do you say that I am? And I heard you're the disciple who Jesus loved. All my peace came back, all my energy came back, all my ability to trust God came back. Suddenly I'm talking to Him. What do you want me to do next? How do you want me to do it? It was no more on my own stuff. Yeah, I got right out of it, but I had to shred the past. I had to shred everything that got me to that point. And and a lot of my students were angry at me. Do you have those notes on that sermon you preach? Wow. Or those notes from class, and I went, no, no, I don't you don't be pulling that off. You should have taken those notes. But it but some of them, well, I I'm not gonna shred my my diplomas. I'm not telling you to do that. Yeah, I had to do that. Yeah, I had to I had to repent. Yeah, I had to change my mind. Yeah, and and just say, Father, I I'm I've become I've become a Christianese worker in the system. And I need my relationship with you restored in love. And I need that strength and balance that we used to walk in when we laughed at things and when we enjoyed, when I enjoyed the presence of the Lord, I wasn't looking forward to the presence of the Lord because he's just gonna come and tell me what else I'm doing wrong. You know, that's how you're starting to feel, right? Yeah, and and I I and after that, I found that um I throw things away very easily. Yeah. I still do. I find as soon as short leash. Yes, like wait a minute, what's God saying today? Yeah, like you know, like uh we've just taught this class the second time, right? Like the foundations class. Well, all my notes were different from the first time, and that was just a few months ago. Yeah, why? Because I've changed, I've grown in the Lord. Yeah, I've spent um, I've spent a lot of time with him because I don't watch the news. That's a good that's a good way to do it. Practical, right? Yeah, exactly. Right. So I I think for me as a man who wants to fix everything, I have that's what made me stop and say, Lord, how are we going to work on this? You've put this in my heart to fix this, but I I I need to know how you're gonna do it. Yeah, and then I will work the way you want it. You want to. Now, here's what I want to do. Yeah, does that work? No? Then then you then please tell me what do you want done?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Or or other times, here's what I'm thinking of doing. It's a good idea. Thank you. Yeah, let's go get it done. Yeah, and I you have to keep talking to God all the time. It's not a formula, yeah. We love formulas, yeah. Yeah, we we love, yeah, we love the simple 10 steps to receiving two steps to having five steps to getting all you want. Yeah, right. We love that. Yeah, but it's not a formula, it's relationship. Yeah, he's Abba, he's my dad, he's father, right? And and just because we did this that, you know, two weeks ago, isn't that what happens to Elijah? Elijah is running from Jezebel. He just pulled off one of the greatest faith powers things you've ever seen, right? The water, the altar, everything gets consumed in lightning.
SPEAKER_01It was the best story. It's one of the best stories because he's like mocking them.
SPEAKER_03It's just incredible. All of a sudden, she says something uh uh derogatory to him, and he's running for his life. Yeah, and where does he run to? He runs to Mount Hermon, right? And and he runs to the cleft in the rock where it's very possible that's where Moses saw the back of the Lord, right? Right? And that's where Moses got the commandments, and that's where the experience Moses had, yeah, and that's where he had. So what does Elijah do? He runs to that place, yeah. Something familiar. Yeah. And they go, and the Lord goes, What are you doing here? That's an old formula, and and and it says, right, and the Lord was not in the lightning, right? It wasn't in the wind, he wasn't in the fire, and he wasn't in the earthquake. Yeah, he was in the still small voice. Yeah, and the still small voice was for Elijah, and he says twice, What are you doing here? What do you what are you doing trying to pick up on Moses' experience? Why are you going back? I have a relationship with you today. And by the way, there's 7,000 others who haven't kissed Baal and haven't knelt their need of Baal. You are not the only one left.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03As a matter of fact, what happens to him? He suddenly gets rejuvenated, right? Because he hears what God has for him now. And he's laying hands on prophets and he's out finding Elisha and he's out doing prophetic work again.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But in relationship with the Lord, yeah, not in some old thing. You know, let's put up the signs out in the front here, revival between Wednesday and Saturday. Uh we need the tents back. That's the tent meeting. Like, what is he saying to us today? Yeah, that's so cool. And that's and that's where we have to watch. Like what you're asking is like, I'm gonna go fix it. I'm gonna go fix it. Well, you know, this is how this is how they did it down there at uh first church, and here's how they did it out there in Australia, and this is how they're doing it. And then you wonder why you've got a bunch of pablum in in Christians' hearts, and there's no meat coming out of it. And it's because we're just we're just taking these formulas rather than listening to what the father's telling us to do. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, like, like you're a good youth, pastor. Thank you. Praise God. First man to say it. I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. Excuse me, but you got a hundred percent of our future in your hands, right? And and and and you're and you're saying, well, um, I'm uh you know Lord, I'm not sure what to do. Maybe I'll check out what those pastors are doing. Those pastors, and the Lord says, wait a minute, Malachi, Malachi, no, I've got a plan for you.
SPEAKER_01It's a huge temptation, though. Sure it is, like it's especially for if and if you've you know, obviously you've been in ministry, so you know that. You know that feeling of like, especially if things aren't going great, especially if things are especially if things are slow and they're and they're not moving quickly, it is a it's a very big temptation to look, okay. Well, what are they doing? And I I think there's maybe partial merit to that, because obviously there's like there's principles that that you can you can take. But we're not talking principles.
SPEAKER_03We're talking relationships, yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and and he's created you to be able to hear what he wants for the people here. Now, if you end up with a revival and you end up with something that nobody else in North America has, and suddenly you're attracting everybody, they want to come up and they want a piece of that, you're now responsible to go hear from the Lord as to how to distribute that. Yeah, because that can turn into a real donkey show. Yeah, it really can. Like we've we've seen it, we've seen it in the different revivals in different cities, and that and cars, everybody, you know, everybody's showing up in cars and their picnic baskets and everything, or they're gonna come and get some of the blessing and some of the anointing, and sure, and they're gonna bring it back, and they bring it back to immaturity. Because we've not grown in the Lord ourselves in our own relationship with our father.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, it's wild. That's a weird though, because like you know, why do we why do we constantly go back to what's old? Like, kind of what like we we have this I feel like we're all weird fear of the future and fear, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think I think fear uh that that uh God might not answer us. You know it's unknown. Yes, and and well, um I gotta watch how I say this here because I don't want to step on it. I don't want to say okay. Uh yes, we we can sink it if it doesn't. Okay, okay, yeah. I remember you're gonna be like No, but I was we were singing a song the other day in church, and they were going, That's why I love him, because I called and he answered. That's why I love him. And I said, Well, Lord, what happens if you didn't answer? Do we still love you? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow, yeah, and and well, that's like the story in uh Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego before they go into the fire, they say, even if he doesn't save me, we're not gonna bow down to your God. Right. We're still gonna worship ours. Right? Right. It's like that idea of even if he doesn't.
SPEAKER_03Even if he doesn't, and and the poor and the uh the church of Smyrna, those poor people, right? He says, he says, uh yeah, uh, you know, I I see your poverty, I see the trouble you're going through, and you're gonna be tortured for ten days, maybe on to death. Yeah but I'm gonna give you the crown of life. Lord, you think you have a little more positive message in that for me? You you you think and no, I I'm talking to you in the relationship we have, and there may be suffering.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There may be some suffering. But I know it's not popular in North America to uh because we have this escapism doctrine, right? And it's not popular to talk about things that you suffer. But the but but it says in in 1 Peter that uh that Satan goes around as a royal lion seeking whom he may devour. Yeah and and how we come through with suffering and how we come through into victory with suffering. And you say, well, Norm, don't talk about that. What I I want to talk about, name it and claim it. I want to talk about only prosperity. And that's not the full gospel. Yeah, that's right. It's it's it's living our Christian walk with Christ in the day we're in, the moment we're in, driving down here, talking to the Lord. Lord, Lord, um, is there anything in particular you want me to share about? Is there something in particular that that uh that Malachi is going to touch on that's gonna bring you glory and that's gonna help some people understand? Or talking to them all the time. Yeah, well, brother, um, how uh how long do you pray, you know, in the morning? Um I I don't know. Uh, but but uh you know, a half an hour, uh 15 minutes, and uh I don't know, but I know 15 minutes doesn't go by that I'm not talking to the father again, yeah, right? I'm talking to him all the time, yeah, like praying without ceasing. Yes, because he's because he's he's Abba. Yeah, and and and he is the only one with the answers. Yeah. Well, that's how we get rid of shame, that's how we walk in grace, that's how we do it, yeah, is we stick with him. Hallelujah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Oh, glory to God. I don't think we have to censor that. That's good. No, I like I like that. It's it's yeah, name it and claim it. That's it's a dangerous place to be too, right? Like I think, I think you miss out, like, and we I think we talked about this on a previous podcast that suffering is a part of our journey, right? Suffering and and it kind of goes hand in hand with weakness, like because when we have weakness, we're we're kind of suffering.
SPEAKER_03We're we're we're like Malika, you only know you're alive when you're in the middle of pain. Yeah, right, right, right. Like I'm I'm not enjoying this diet. Exactly. I'm in pain right now, you know. Like I I hate squats, I'm limping out of there, I hurt, right? I'm suffering. Yeah, uh, but but same thing, like I uh you lose a family member, you have a sick family member, you have somebody dying in the family, you're suffering. Yeah, and you're saying, well, well, well, just have a faith prayer there, brother. You know, he's saying, Yeah, I've been praying by faith, and I'm waiting for the power of God to come upon me. I I remember, can I share this scenario? Okay, I remember one day I'm at a I'm at the bank and I know the I know this person really well. And I said, Where's uh this where's so-and-so? And he said, Oh, are they ever sick? They're at home and they're violently ill. And um, and and I and I and it's on my way home, and I said, and I heard the Lord says, Stop in and pray for them. I go in, I said, knock, knock, you know, and uh and the person answered the door and they looked like death.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I remember taking my hands and I put them on her head and I took the disease and I threw it away off the stairs, and she was healed on the spot.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Okay, it doesn't happen often, but that's that's amazing. Amazing.
SPEAKER_03But I go home and my son is really sick, and I lay hands on him, and nothing happens for days. Yeah, the same day. Wow. Where'd you go, God? I'm suffering here, yeah. He's suffering, yeah. And and you you caused me to relieve that person's suffering, but there's other sufferings going on. Yeah, I don't I don't understand it, yeah, but I'm gonna go through it. Does it mean, well, that's why I love him? Because I called and he answered. That's why I love him. Well, he didn't answer. Do I still love him? Do I still love him? Yeah. Do I still trust him? Do I still trust him? Yeah. Yeah, that's that's my walk. That's where it's real, yeah. And that's where you're you start believing scripture. That's where you start believing who you are in Christ.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because if you don't believe who you are in Christ, you're gonna fall on those things. Yeah, you're going to rationalize in the end, and you're gonna listen to the enemy. Yeah, you say, Well, uh, I guess he I guess God just doesn't love you. Because uh, because look, so and so prayed and they got healed. Yeah, well, I guess you must have done something wrong. Yeah, yeah, you you must have sin in your life, yeah, or something, yeah. Something and your parents did this, yeah, and and all the nonsense doctrine starts coming out, and we start going back to stupid doctrine, the thing, the thing that we were supposed to be saved from.
SPEAKER_01Jude w warns us about that stuff, right? Yes, the theology snakes, we called them. Oh, glory. Um, well, one thing I wanted to talk about at the end of this too. Um uh it was uh it was just a thought of like how um oftentimes with when we when we're dealing with like sin in our life, um, obviously shame comes and um there's another thing that comes the disqualification that we feel. Um and it's almost like you know, if we deal with you've fallen from the sky.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01And exactly like we what your book talks about, and in in our weakness, it feels like we're disqualified. But but obviously we see you know, we see in the Bible that that's not the case. Is it true? Yeah, there's a question we have to ask ourselves it's it's not the case, right? We see that you know, God actually chooses, you know, for for a lack of a better term, weak people to to do his will, to to do incredible things, like you mentioned Moses, right? Like Moses, he had a stutter and he said, Please don't use me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you please don't use my brother, and then he didn't shut up after that, right? Because he became powerful, right? Same Gideon, yeah, the same, like fearful, yeah, exactly, right? All the half of the judges.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So it was uh um, I mean, I think a big question is why why does God do that? Why does he, you know, why doesn't he just choose the strong? Why doesn't he just choose the wrong thing?
SPEAKER_03Well, you know, the weak things of the world to confound the wise, right? And that and and in the wisdom of the world, eh, in in in the the uh the the uh antichrists and the atheists and all of the the psych professors and all these people who who profess wisdom, right? Yeah, and and and why does he use the weak things or the weak people and and I and and I remember uh a testimony of of one of these professors and um and he was sitting at a bus stop and uh he thought he was smart and and all this, and then um he heard this person talking to another person about God and uh the guy the other guy says, Well, I don't believe in God. And he says, Well, the fool says in his heart there's no God. And they got on the bus and left. Just a savage. And they got on the bus and he's sitting there and the words keep ringing in his head. He doesn't believe in God. Yeah, well, a f only a fool believes there's no God. And he's supposed to be the smart professor, yeah. And he's starting to realize he ain't so smart. The conviction of the Holy Spirit starts working on this guy, yeah. And I remember this him, this testimony being shared that it was just a simple word, and uh God used this kid who just blurted out a scripture was just an absolute savage, a weak, you know, like the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, yeah. And and I I think that's and and this way I think God gets all the glory. Like, who gets the glory from my books? Man, yeah, uh every second line in my books, Jesus Christ is Lord. I mean, it's it's continuous, right? He's getting all the glory, yeah. In in in the videos we we do, right? Whether uh whether it's here and that, and Jesus is Lord, right? Jesus is God, and he's the one that saves you. There is no other. And it's all of us weak guys that become strong in him, that's right, and we become the force that the enemy has to deal with. Yeah, and it's a mighty force, yeah. Even the 300 Gideon, right? Yeah, yeah. And it was just a word, it was only a word. He heard them, he needed some encouragement, and he heard an interpretation of a dream. This is nothing but Gideon's sword, and and he wipes out a whole nation to the point that they they they end up killing themselves. Wild. It's like in running away in insanity, yeah. And that's who we are. Yeah, we have that strength in the Lord, but we're gonna have to start believing it. Yeah, and we're gonna have to start living it, and we're just going to have to start confessing our faults one to another.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, I I I'm terrible at this, and I well, let me help you. Yeah, yeah. Do you want me to pray for you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. That's the only way to do that.
SPEAKER_03And that's the only way we're going to also be able to overcome this fear of end times. Yeah, yeah. Lord, thy kingdom come. Yeah. And keep bringing it. Yeah. So that the times get good in Jesus.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Amen. That's right. Yeah. So yeah, we need we need each other. We need people around us. And I love what you said too. Like, we're not gonna we're not gonna get past the fear. We're not gonna get past those things until we bring other people into those places and encourage each other and build each other up. Amen. I need to fight for each other. We need to trust you.
SPEAKER_03I need to be able to trust you, you know, and I need to trust brother here. And I need I need my my my brothers and sisters in the Lord. I need to be able to depend on them to go find out from God what God has for them so they can share it with me. Yeah. So that I can grow. Yeah. That's what that's how we need each other. Yeah, that's beautiful. Amen.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I had a great time on this podcast today.
SPEAKER_03I did too. I love this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna have them back again, 100%. I'm coming back. Oh good. We'll bring back his next book, right? Uh, but again, uh Norm's new book, Falling from the Sky. Uh, it's a great read. I'm I'm about 30% through. Been so good so far. It's uh it's been challenging me, like I said earlier. It's been challenging me, but there's so much truth. And I love the truth that you bring in your in your writing too. I love all the scripture and it's beautiful. And uh so thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing uh even just you have so many stories. I love your stories, and I love uh just the way you present things. So thank you for being with us, and uh, we'll see you next time for sure. But uh for the rest of us, um, we want to thank you for uh being uh a part of our community, the Mezzanine floor. Thank you for watching this episode. Uh we pray that it would encourage you and equip you. That's the purpose of why we do it, uh, that you would be encouraged and equipped. Um, and uh like and share this video if you if you liked this video or if you you found that it was helpful, uh, make sure you share it with somebody who needs to hear it. Uh comment down below uh if you have questions. I'm sure we would love to do like a QA one time. That'd be awesome, like a live QA. So if you have questions, please you know submit them or comment down below. Uh again, like and uh follow our Mezzanine floor podcast on the Spotify or Apple. But we'll see you next time on the Mezzanine floor.
