PITCHERS AND CATCHERS REPORT: Flexibility, Health, And Deep October Baseball

Spring hits different when your pitching plan actually matches your October goals. We kick off a loaded Monday Morning Cubs Show by setting a clear blueprint: use the catcher tandem smartly, spread early innings across a deep rotation, and lean on a bullpen with defined tiers while keeping the door open for a midseason upgrade. We walk through why Miguel Amaya and Carson Kelly make a high-floor backstop duo and how Moises Ballesteros adds rare DH insurance. Then we map the rotation with intent: Cade Horton is electric but protected, Justin Steele remains the staff’s soul, and Eddie Cabrera—now Eddie in Chicago—gets room to acclimate before the weather and rhythm turn in his favor.

From there, we highlight the ballast that wins long seasons: Matthew Boyd in a contract push, Shota Imanaga with a chip on his shoulder, and Jameson Taillon as the day-game stabilizer who enables a six-man look in April. We explain why Colin Rea and Javier Assad are elite insurance and flag Jackson Wiggins’ triple-digit upside and Jordan Wicks’ must-click changeup as pivotal spring storylines. In the pen, Daniel Palencia holds the ninth for now, while Caleb Thielbar and Phil Maton bring late-inning courage and command. Hunter Harvey is the value swing who could break the season wide open, with Jacob Webb and Hobie Milner poised to thrive in better-shaped roles—and big-velo lottery tickets Porter Hodge and Luke Little waiting to pop.

We keep it honest, too: a raw moment on gambling’s costs and why integrity matters, plus measured WBC excitement with a watchful eye on health. The big takeaway? Don’t panic when April pitch counts feel conservative. This roster is built to peak when it counts, and the path to a top-five MLB staff is right in front of us.

If you’re riding with us into 90-plus wins, hit follow, drop a five-star review on Apple or Spotify, and share this with a Cubs friend who’s counting down to Opening Day. Who’s your Game 1 starter? We want to hear it.

Thanks for tuning in! 

- Carl & Mahoney

Transcript

Post–Super Bowl Cold Open

SPEAKER_00 0:03

And we're clear. Good morning, good afternoon, and evening, Chicago Cubs fans. Welcome back to the Monday Morning Cubs Show. Today is Monday, February 9th. It is Carl, and I am delighted, as always, to say, joined by Mahoney. Good to see you, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

There he is. Hey Carl, great to see you on this post-Super Bowl Monday. Not as bad as it used to be. You know, you just don't get after it as hard, but more as the food and the gastrointestinal issues. But happy Monday to the maniacs, Carl, happy Monday to you. Let's have a fantastic week. And there's a lot to get into on this loaded, loaded episode.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Speaking of loaded, I did not get loaded during the Super Bowl last night. First time in a while, that's usually a big one for me. I start at you know like 10 a.m. or whatever. Um, you know, it's not a New Year's resolution. I just haven't really gotten drunk since like the Christmas holiday season. I've had a couple beers. Big night last night for THC seltzers. And I bring this up because I got hit by a Mac truck. I woke up today. We were gonna record super early today, but this Super Bowl Sunday, despite being my first one in a long time that I haven't put the dog on, so to say, uh, still feeling it, still reeling. That's 38 going on 39, Mahoney. And I will say, terrible game, just awful football game.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, the game sucked, extremely one-sided. Seattle's defense looked amazing. I mean, everyone else knows what happened, so obviously we're not gonna break that down. The THC Celties, man, and I live by those things, but you gotta be careful with them. If you're gonna have five, you're in a different world then, buddy. I had a buddy, I left one in the fridge in Milwaukee one time on accident, and this friend thought it was just a weed beer. Little did he know, this thing was 25 milligrams, and he was in the car in the fetal position the whole ride home.

THC Seltzers And Moderation Lessons

SPEAKER_00 1:49

You need we need more guidance. Like usually with beers, I know if I'm domestic, you know, I'm working at a six. It's like once I get over the six, if that's a Miller light, uh, you know, if that's I guess it's so to say Midello, etc. You know, the light and easy ones, you're I'm looking at six with an IPA and et cetera, I'm looking at like four. Once you get over those, it's like, okay, I know the buzz is coming. The THC seltzers, I have no idea. It could be one, it could be three, it could be two, it could be seven. It sometimes they hit, sometimes uh, you know, you're on the moon. I suppose we're just gonna open this one up to the maniacs and say, like, hey, if you guys have any advice or any best practices when it comes to THC seltzers, Mahoney and I are all ears.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

All ears, yep. A huge staple in the refrigerator, as is another beverage, Carl.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

And this is what we're doing, baby, because as far as like seltzers are concerned, THC Colby, there's nothing anybody's drinking that compares to a thirsty vaquero, which is a Mexican-style soda with a signature spicy finish that is all bite, no rattle, my friends. Three bold flavors. Mahoney, you are a sworn-swear true watermelon jalapeno aficionado.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

I am Carl and had a chance once more to bring them to a party. I got to go to yesterday's Super Bowl party. What do you know? Talk of the town, talk of the family room. Everyone wanted a taste, and they got one, and they loved it, and they'll be purchasing Thirsty Vaquero for the rest of their thirsty lives.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

And I'm pumped to do a full season with Thirsty Vaquero and the refrigerator because it really took its own, it really came on late second half last year for me in the fridge. Because again, it's like, you know, late at night. Obviously, I want a cold beverage in my hand. Uh, when you can go to a chili limon, when you can go to a mango muerte, buddy, buddy. I mean, you know, and these are the type of conversations we need to have as pitchers and catchers report, because we're all getting ready for a baseball season here, folks. I would say the best thing a Cubs fan can do is go to Amazon, get yourself a taste of thirsty vacero. They have four packs, they have 12 packs. There's a variety of options. It will ship directly to your front door, which then goes right in the refrigerator. And then your old lady says to you before she sits down to his dinner, she goes, What's this thirsty? What is this thirsty vaquero? And you say, honey, it is about to blow the tits, clean off your fucking chest, and I like those tits. I don't want to see those things go anywhere, but it's taco night in the house. I'm gonna hit you with the mango muerte, and it's gonna take your relationship to the next level. Something to consider as Valentine's Day approaches.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Dap, absolutely, Carl. The perfect Valentine's Day gift really would be, you know, a mango muerte. You give a four-pack of that for your sweetheart. You might get some action a little bit later in that evening, but I'll table that discussion for another time. She will be drenched.

Sponsor Shout And Vaquero Flavor Talk

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Uh, this is it's a big show here, guys. This is our pitchers and catchers report show. I know a lot of people are very excited about it. Some content of early workouts so far in the in the midst of things. We're gonna go through full pitcher and catcher scounter report. I put together a take for everybody. So just we're all on the same page. You know, we talk about Cade Horton in spring training. Like, let's get on the same page of who he is and what we expect for him this year. Same thing to go. Justin Steele, Eddie Cabrera, Matt Boyd. We're gonna go down the list, all starting pitchers, all the guys in the bullpen, obviously talk a little bit about catchers. We'll look ahead next week, position player stuff. So I will spend a bulk of time in the second half of the show just getting us on the same page. Who these guys, who really who are these storylines as we get into spring training into opening day. Um, but before, obviously, last thing if you guys get a chance, review the show. Five stars, whichever you're on, Apple Podcasts is making a push against the Spotify crowd right now. I believe it's 150 to 220. So if I could get the Apple guys to step up.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Let's go, Apple guys. Come on, podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

We have the numbers. I know how many there are. There should there should be more reviews. I'm just saying that. I appreciate you guys who have reviewed. If you get a chance, it takes two seconds, and you know what it does, it makes me feel better about myself.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Same. Anytime I read a nice little note about you or myself from you know the Apple reviews, you you have to take that to the next episode. It's all about momentum on the Monday morning Cub show, and it's all about momentum for the maniacs. You guys want the momentum? You want to have an awesome season? Drop a five-star review in a quick line.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

We're six minutes into this show. Haven't really talked too much Cubs baseball. That's because there's housekeeping to get to, guys. Pitchers and catchers just showed up. Um, Mahoney, you put together a nice tight package of segments. Why don't we just get the voc vocal cords nice and loose? And do we have I said any F-words yet? Lizard King, have I?

SPEAKER_01 6:31

I do not believe I've caught any in my ear, but no, the vocal cords are oscillating, and let's get rolling, baby.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Okay, what do we got, Mahoney?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

So this is a Valentine's week, Carl, of course. And one of my segments during the season, I like to do what I love, what I hated, and all that. But you know what? I'm gonna focus right now on what I love heading in to spring training as pitchers or catch up catchers report. And the first thing I'd like to get off is the flexible rotation. Now we won't do a deep dive now because you're gonna be talking quite a bit about these folks a little bit later. But the flexibility, the fact that we've gotten to talk and explore the strategy of utilizing a six-man rotor, it gives me the idea of fresher arms leading into the postseason, fresher arms over the course of the year, allowing somebody to go down, you know, that's gonna happen, oblique, whatever it may be. The flexible rotation and of our pitching staff really has me, you know, just smiling ear to ear on this Valentine's week. So that's one thing I really do love.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Now I'll say we have eight legit big league starters going into camp. Guys that have done it, guys that have success, guys you can pencil. And I'm not saying they're eight awesome. There's a couple of guys in there. You go, okay, you're a five, but we have eight guys that can make starts for a team. Historically speaking, you go into spring training, you're lucky to have four, and then you have a stable of like four or five guys that maybe they're healthy, maybe this guy doesn't suck, maybe this and that. We have eight guys right now that would be light years ahead of the scenario I just described.

What We Love Heading Into Camp

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Carl, beautifully spoken. And on top of that, I do want to kind of paint the picture of where we were at last season heading into spring training when we're worried about hey, is Ben Brown gonna be the guy? Like that is laughable now compared to the big leaguers that we have that are gonna be, you know, slinging that uh slinging that pill down down to the down the middle of the plate strike, baby. Um, you know, and then loaded lineup, I mean just a loaded lineup, the pregnant bump, uh, also adds to that flexibility. Now we do have guys who can we can kind of you know put around Alex. We could have guys that uh Nico, we saw him, you know, four dingers and four pitches. There was some video out there in spring training. I know it was served up, but now it wasn't just that, it wasn't just that. I honestly think he's he's gotten a little bit more juice in those arms. Now the arms are a little bit bigger. That's much fine, fine. I know he's a ball player can rake and take things out when it hits down the middle, but it was his arms that really caught mind.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

We need to talk about this moment here because it was it wasn't viral on social media, but cubs, twitter, it was big. It was Nico Horner hitting home runs during batting practice and the captions, never seen him hit the ball as far. Oh god, uh, you know, we're above sea level here. The ball flies in Arizona, one, two, especially that time of day. I don't want to get into Nimbus cumulus clouds. I'm just saying the way the air pressure is, especially that part of Mesa, the ball flies on those backfields. I have a sincere gripe against people that are getting excited based on the fact that he hit a couple out that looked great. Now, if you want to get excited and say the quads are measuring two inches larger in circumference each, now we're talking. The back looks bigger. This is a guy who could rip 47 pull-ups without breaking a sweat. That's where you want to get like excited about Nico Horner as he physically looks different. But I mean, hitting BP. Dylan Carlson had great swings in BP. Dylan Carlson started the season 0 for 18 last year, posted a minus three cumulative war over his last two full seasons, and really hasn't been good for the Cardinals in four fucking years. So I don't want to get too excited because guys had good BP. But let me ask you, is it just more circumstance that we haven't seen baseball? We can't help ourselves. What message do you have for maniacs that are like you that are maybe a little too excited about a round of BP, knowing that as our Nico Horner is maybe a 15 home run guy best at his absolute best?

Nico Horner Power Debate

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Well, think about it this way coming off of surgery last year, he's been able to put in a full offseason of hard work on that upper body, and I think it's paid off. Now, I'm losing my train of thought in regard to what you were asking me, but to for the maniacs, I love to see it. I mean, just that's the first cub I've seen swing a bat within the past you know few months on green grass with the sun shining, and then this is what actually gets people excited when the pitchers and catchers are reporting, baby. I know it's something we just say, and I kind of shattened it last week, but you just the things are starting to roll it. Football season's over, it's baseball season. Nico's here. Now, now while on Nico, and I'll move on now, but ball or strike. Carl, ball or strike. Nico flexes his power given the lineup makeup and contract year.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, now this is where I'm gonna say that's when you say flex is power, that could be a strike. That's a strike. I think that's a strike. It should be a strike. There's a lot of things that should be a strike about this. Nico Horner is a six win above replacement baseball player while being arguably a bottom five percent everyday slug guy. Now, maybe there are players who have you know worse slugging percentages, etc. My point in saying bottom five slug guy, he's no threat to hit a home run ever. However, the fact that he continuously has success hitting the ball hard up the middle into the other way is just a testament to how much of a unicorn this guy is. So we've had these conversations before with Pete Crow Armstrong of like, is it worth to sacrifice what you know you're good at in order to pursue power? And if Nico Horner does that this year, I think he has built this skill set and we're in a lineup where we can take some risks from him. But if he does that, he's got to hit like seventh or eighth. You can't have him hit second and then search power. Like, if he's gonna be a guy who's gonna hit for power, then you got to move him down the lineup and accept the fact that there's gonna be some probably growing pains. I I just don't see him like selling out too much to get to power. There could be some changes that he's made to his body, obviously, and getting strong. I think that's where you're gonna try and find it. At the end of the day, like if he does hit 15 homers and he does hit 30 doubles and he does hit eight triples, we're talking about a significantly better slugging percentage than he had last year. And ultimately, he was looking for five years and 90 million dollars. I don't think he's gonna get to that level without having a bigger slugging percentage. So, last thing on this is this is a good point, and Maniacs consider this, Mahoney consider this. I want everybody thinking about this. What's more important in Nico Horner? Is it more important that he plays his best baseball that he can't play right now? Or is it more important that he tries and grows his power profile for the next contract at what could potentially be the detriment of the team?

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Yeah, I would take the first option for the greater good. And I think that that Nico's a greater good type of dude. So there you have it. What then now that's another thing I love. I just love seeing Nico, you know, swinging the bat, hitting some dingers. So that said, the lot of there's storylines are loaded coming into this 2026 campaign, right? And there's tons to talk about throughout spring training. Okay. DeShow to return to form. Steele's gonna be coming back, you know, at some point, likely I think in June or something. We got Bregman, PCA. Will he take that next step to superstard him? And now we're not breaking this down now. I'm just saying I love the storylines that are going to be delivered that me and you and the maniacs are gonna be able to yuck it up on. And I couldn't be more excited for this season. I think it's 45 days until opening day.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

They're great individual storylines. Last year was more of a team storyline because they weren't that good, good in 24 under Craig Council in the first year. So it's more of a collective like, are we gonna be better together? Where obviously in 24, big storyline is it's Craig Council's first year. Everybody's excited to get to know this guy. It turns out he's a dud socially. The 23 storyline, can they possibly be as bad as 22? The 22 storyline, they sold everybody off since 21, the 21 storyline. Are we trading these guys? Are we holding on to our butt cheeks? 2020 spring trainings, you know, the storyline there is who got the jab. Seriously, the 2019 storyline. You go back, Mahoney, it's been forever since we, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

That was a big contentious thing within clubhouses across the country.

2026 Storylines And Expectations

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yeah, not a lot of guys ended up getting it uh in the big leagues, that's for sure. My point, Moy, is that you bring up a great, great uh you know, point in saying that this this spring training, these storylines, we're so lucky that a storyline is what impact does Alex Bregman have? Can Matt Shaw play right field? Like, yeah, these are cupcake storylines. How good is Moises Ballesteros gonna look? You know, in the meantime, we have no questions about who the center fielder is, who the left fielder is, what the left side of the infield is, how many pitchers we need, what the ballpen looks like. Is Craig Counsel a decent manager? All that stuff that really can make it a shitty experience. No, forget all that. Forget all that. We're rolling. We are rolling in the spring training.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

We we're rolling into the spring training in the 2026 Cubs. The expectation is that we're gonna be playing in October. It's the expectation now. I think it's across the clubhouse with the culture aspect of things, the shift of even the you know, the ownership's strategies and going out and paying somebody like Bregman for the actual five-year contract. So it's just all good, good vibes for me. And I really I know I've said it like a thousand times. I just couldn't be more excited for this coming season of Cubs baseball and the Monday morning cub show.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

My number one goal is to win the division and take back what the Brewers have, you know, they've just killed us last year with 97 wins. I would like to take it back from them first and foremost. I would like to finish in the top two of National League records, which is way more ambitious, but I would like that. I would like to have a playoff series at home at Rig Lai. Obviously, I'd like to be the number one seed so we can skip the wild card round. But the Dodgers are obviously great. That Elise is always competitive. I think a more realistic win the division from there. If we could be a top two seed in the national league, that would be amazing. Ultimately, I want to host in the wild card round if we're gonna be realistic, the way we did against the Padres last year, being the number one wild, you know, being the number one wild card team. Uh if we can't win the division, but ultimately I'd like to win the division, and I'd like to play, you know, the sixth or the seventh seed if it comes down to it.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

So yeah, and I think too, I mean, the division is in reach. It's not the strongest division in the National League by any means. And I think that that's gonna help with some of that longevity and being able to really conserve arms, power, whatever it may be, and giving guys some breaks. So I feel like it is a winnable division where we can actually not be foot on the gas pedal the entire course of 162, you know, or I think the Dodgers might have to be a little bit more cognizant of that, just with who they have to play and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

But they have a much better division. That's a great call. Like we have the we can roll through the Reds, we can roll through the Cardinals. We're gonna have our hands fill with the Brewers pitching staff. They just traded for Kyle Harrison from the Red Sox, giving up Caleb Durbin, who's a good player, sucks the Red Sox, lose Alex Bregman, lose Rafi Devers, and then they have to replace him with Caleb Durbin. That's a completely different conversation. For purposes of looking at the Brewers, though, I do think they did get better in adding Kyle Harrison. I know they lose Freddie Peralta, but Mizorowski takes a step forward. So just there are things, you know, it's not like it's a guarantee we're gonna smash the brewers. I like us more on paper, I always do. Um, but just looking at what the Dodgers have to do, the J I mean, sure, the Padres are great. The Diamondbacks have improved their roster, they're they're very tough to play. Um, you know, and like the Giants are always gonna give their Dodgers, the Dodgers, their absolute best. The Rockies are a doormat, but you know, so are the Pirates. We could do this forever.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

100%.

Division Goals And NL Seeding Targets

SPEAKER_00 18:51

I'm with you one 100% that I'm pumped because of how these storylines shape up for spring training. It's almost like you're like being a Bears fan and saying, you know, like I expect 11 wins. I expect to be in that category is kind of where I'm at as a Cubs fan right now. I expect this 90 plus wins. We've talked about the score. I think they win 97 games, etc. So, you know, but here's a caveat to this. We need a healthy spring training, Molly. Ball or strike.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah, that's a strike. I mean, healthy spring training. You want everyone showing up opening day with the full roster. We don't want any, you know, somebody has to sit out, you know, six weeks or something, and then we're figuring shit out right off the bat. I need that, I need that like two months in.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

And here's the thing that makes me nervous is that in we talked to us in green screen room, and this is one of your biggest nervous things, it's the world baseball classic.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Right. Picrow Armstrong, the world baseball classic. I'm excited for the WBC, don't get me wrong, but I got extremely nervous when you know you had mentioned like PCA going balls to the wall, and I just picture him slamming into a wall and then that messing up everything for the first half of the year. Yeah, that's the last thing I want. I mean, I pick Bregman's playing on Team USA. And and like I don't think we hit on that the last time because we didn't have the rosters right in front of our face. So Matt Boyd is on the team, he doesn't need to throw anything. I don't want Matthew Boyd throwing a single pitch for Team USA because of his pitch count in the last year was more collectively than the previous four of it, you know, whatever it was. It was something like that. So, yeah, I'm with you on that, dude. I am excited for the WBC though, and I have we have a full breakdown coming your way in the next couple weeks. I'm gonna do it a little bit closer to when the world baseball classic is gonna go, but wait until you guys get a taste of this. We have everything from every roster, a deep dive into some of the socio-political aspects of the tournament. Um, and uh it's gonna be fun. And then there will be almost a world baseball classic episode coming within the next few weeks, and I really want y'all to stay tuned. I'm just I'm so excited for the season. It's gonna be nice to see some competitive baseball, but definitely clinching the buck cheeks anytime I see uh a ball hit into the gap and PCA streaming over with other fielders that aren't typically playing with him every day.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Well, I know you really we talked before the show, you were real passionate about why is Chinese T uh Taipei being abbreviated as uh you know the province of I believe Hong Kong. Right. I don't know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

All intention, all intentional.

WBC Excitement And Injury Fears

SPEAKER_00 21:31

They have they abbreviated TPO, and that's a that's a pretty bold designation. I mean, that's ESPN and international scoreboards, and they're doing the best they can because of all these complicated international uh you know relations, I suppose you have to keep. But like, you know, it's it's kind of bullshit. Little league world series, it's Chinese Taipei, but we get to this point, it's TPO. And again, that's a completely different conversation, but I know you're passionate about that. One thing I one thing I do want to bring up as we talk about. Yeah, there are opportunities for Cubs players to get hurt uh that I don't like at all. Matt Boyd should not be throwing a pitch. I think we're on the same page. It is good for PCA to get meaningful game reps this early. You know, he's gonna strike out a ton this year, whether he plays in the world baseball classic or not. I don't give a shit. And Alex Bregman, you know, it's just like you don't want to give a guy$175 million and then go watch him compete hard. Yeah, save the Jews. Yeah, before he wears a Cubs uniform. That stuff is totally valid. But conversely, I'm gonna go back to Chinese Taipei. Jonathan Long is a player I wanted to see at the big league level for a long time with the Chicago Cubs, who's kind of blocked in our minor leagues, but is a tremendous minor league player. He'll be the starting third baseman or first baseman for Chinese Taipei. And we have a couple of these players in our organization that are gonna get opportunities. I'd like to see Miguel La Maya play. I believe he's catching for Panama. Palencia gets an opportunity to play with Venezuela. And that's good for these guys to spend a ton of time with their countrymen and their buddies and just like fucking Palencia would much rather be playing for Venezuela than being at a Cubs spring training camp doing kind of the monotonous towel drill, bullpen, towel drill. Like no, I think it's dancing in the dugout, singing those songs, just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

They love that. I mean, I do too. Javier Asad, speaking of the Little League World Series, him in the Mexico uniform, one of my favorite international unis, by the way. He looks like one of those kids who might be 16. You know, he looks like just a kid gearing up, ready to get out there for the little league world series. Just big grin. And um I remember the kid's name who was like fib 20 years old when he was pitching in the little league world series, but he literally looks like a little league. And I'm excited to see him get some action because I think he could use some of that experience, you know, head into our actual season experience.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Are you talking about Monet Davis or Danny Elmonte?

SPEAKER_01 23:53

El Monte.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Yeah, that's the one. That's the one. That was a sensational story. Uh, we'll cover Little League World Series as that time approaches in August. Reeling it back here. Yeah. We have a we'll do a world baseball classic show. I think next week we're gonna do position players. The week after that, we'll do world baseball classic, or maybe maybe the week after that. But we'll have a guest for that. I think we gotta go get somebody who knows the rosters a little inside out, maybe somebody who's a little bit more adept at the international side of things, foreign policy, trade, tariff, etc. That could be a bolt conversation.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

I've sharpened my pencil, but I am no expert. I would want an expert in the room to discuss, you know, some of the actual seriousness of the world baseball classic and the joy.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Yeah. Hey, hey, what do we got, my friend?

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Last two notes, you know, you just hope that there's no gambling scandals coming down the pipeline and Wrigley, especially, you know, brought to you by DraftKings fucking sports book. Like you have the Indians pitchers, oh, excuse me, Indians, um, the Guardians pitchers. It was 48 games that they were doing that first pitch bet thing on. 400,000 some odd dollars. If they thought, or whatever reason, that uh red flags weren't being going off the algorithm and all the search, like the pings with the weird money coming in at weird times. They were watching these guys for all those games. They had originally accused them of nine, but it was 48 that they are accused of allegedly, you know, tipping or you know, intentionally throwing pitches into the ground or whatever the hell they were doing. It's just crazy to me. And honestly and sadly, we're only gonna see more of this shit in sports, and whether it's baseball or basketball, we've already seen Chauncey Billups got fucking arrested last year, excuse my language. But dude, like DraftKings Sportsbook, it's out in front of Wrigley, and like all these kids are all becoming big leaguers, like they make it so easy, and then you have shitty people with other, you know, other people who are influencing some of these folks. I don't know what things are like, you know, in Venezuela and what have you, but I'd imagine that there's some shady motherfuckers there. So excuse me, I'm passionate about this because I worry about the integrity of the game, and that's what it comes down to. And I'm gonna move on from this because you guys can go research it on your own. It really has nothing to do with the Cubs, but it concerns me because I never want it to have anything to do with the Cubs. So that's why I bring it up.

Integrity Rant On Gambling In Sports

SPEAKER_00 26:24

I hope it does. I think I think the Cubs, I don't think you can do it. I think the Cubs are just too, but maybe you know, who knows, dude? Scumbags everywhere, and and if they can get you on first pitch balls, you know, it makes me just think that the amount of artificial intelligence that's policing this stuff and just the amount of notifications and red flags that can get tripped automatically, just the way the algorithms are written. Like, of course they're gonna be investigating this guy. Now, impressive enough, Emmanuel Classe was one of the best relief pitchers in baseball while actively throwing games and shit. Like, that's you know, say what you want, it's actually pretty badass. So you're like throwing, you're legitimately throwing games and you're still racking up uh, you know, all-star nomination, big things.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Cousins getting 50 G's on the side while he's like, you know, still, you know, performing.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

You know, it's nice. This all reminds me though, and it makes me nostalgic for when I was a degenerate gambler, when I was at rock bottom, when I needed help to get out of it. And when I say I'm nostalgic for it, you know, I had a bookie. We we were leaving, you you carried a credit balance. You called a voicemail, you left numbers. Uh, you know, you didn't know the people you exchanged cat, you exchanged cash when you went up or you went down, you know, you're down a thousand bucks, you get an uh you have to give an envelope. You're above a thousand bucks, you give an envelope. And it's real shady and gritty, and it was disgusting. And I lost tens of thousands of dollars in my 20s and was in rock bottom. Like, you know, what people want to criticize me for being a bad guy or whatever and saying I got some vices, but buddy, go down the sports gambling path with me. That's where your complaints with me as a human being exist. Because I was as disgusting of a human being as it gets with this stuff online, blackjack, you fucking name it, buddy. Just as bad as bad gets. And when I see these gambling scandals and I see the DraftKings commercials and the fanDuel stuff, and you listen to these announcers be like, Oh, Gary, would you think a Scotty Scheffler plus 450 to start the day? Like, go fuck yourself, guys, because at its core, the addiction that comes from sports gambling is just absolutely wretched and awful and horrendous. And I was lucky enough to go through my addiction in the low points of it when it was still cool. It was still cool to have a bookie, it was cool that I was down, you know, whatever I had lost six. That that those are cool stories and moments, so to say, within your 20s as you're growing and you're becoming a man. Yeah, it's a little badass that I got a gambling problem that I got to go through for me at the moment, because it's relative to this stuff now. You get a gambling problem, 12 team parlay, profit boost, enter the pool, use your token. I mean, all the fucking bells and whistles that come with this stuff, it's just kind of lame. Like it's kind of really if you got a problem with it, this stuff is really lame, and it's almost predicated on if you don't have a problem, if you're not addicted to this stuff, then you're on the outside, is how I perceive it. And thank God I don't really gamble that much anymore, Mahoney, because I'm with you. Like, I I mean I had a I had a little bit of action last night on a Super Bowl, but it's a slippery slope. And this is just a rant I've had in my head for a while. At least when I went through it, what 10, 12 years ago, before I got married, there was some kind of salt to it. It wasn't like everybody was gambling, not everybody had an account, not everybody's sitting around the bar making parlays. Like it really was a small corner of the degenerates that I knew in my life. Yeah, we had fucking issues with it, and I got over it. Before, every time you turn on the TV, they were saying, You got problems, call 1-800 gambler. You had to solve a problem back then with your gambling. You went out and you did it yourself.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Yeah, yeah, dude. And I mean, just I I I can't go on about it because I just don't want this to be uh no the show about this, like the gambling issues and sports, and it's just one of those things, man. Prop bets are being shoved on your face right before games are starting. You know, who's gonna get one and a half hits and stuff, and it's like, come on, you game you over-gamified this thing, and it just it that wasn't necessary, but yeah, you know, we'll see what happens. I I I I do feel that there is a lot of integrity within the Cubs organization, and it would be odd if something like this happened. Um, I don't I don't see it happening, but you just never know.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

And let me be serious too, because there are people listening. There's the like game sports gambling, not cool at all. No one cares, no one wants to hear about it, no one gives a fuck. Your smartest thing to do is just save, take that hundred bucks and go put it in the SP 500. Open up a broker, just put it into a Roth IRA, do something else with your money. Don't be fucking gambling on sports. Here's special exceptions are yeah, I'm going to a Cubs game opening day. Sure, I'm gonna take somebody at home runner, I'm gonna take an over in that moment, and it's gonna be cut, it's to cover a round of beer or some bullshit like that. You know, I had fucking issues, man. I had bad issues, and then I remember when I got on the barstool, I used the it I made jokes out of it. I did this stuff called the uh the bookie chronicles where you shared really fucked up stories with people more to tell people. Hey, you're not the only one who's fucked up, like me driving an hour, taking uh a half day at work so I can drive an hour to meet a guy I don't know in some Niles parking lot in exchange, you know, give this guy almost three thousand dollars cash on like a Wednesday afternoon, just because you have to. I have to, I gotta go meet this guy, I gotta give him the money because I lost a I lost the money, and then I gotta go back to work. That's sad, dude. That's pathetic. That's like absolute loser behavior. And I enjoyed sharing loser behavior as a way to encourage people. A, you're not the only loser, so don't beat yourself up about this, and fucking knock it off because it's lame. And then we got acquired, we got acquired by Penn, and I remember sitting in this meeting, and they're talking about like, all right, we're gonna do parlays of the day, and everyone have their pick ready for the day. And I'm thinking to myself, this is not that this is but don't say bookie ever again. Yeah, so you can't say the word bookie, do not say the word bookie. And I'm thinking this is like kind of against you know, and I like betting, so this is we're getting on, we're on a high horse. I'd like to get off the high horse. Uh, but that was weird. That was weird, you know. Home run of the day. Pick this, bet with me. Don't bet with me. Don't ever bet with me, and don't bet with anybody else. And if you have problems betting, don't come to me because I'm a bad person for it. Just hear me now, believe me later. Don't fucking do it. It's lame. No one cares. Save your money. Your wife's gonna find out, she's gonna hate your guts. Not saying that happened with me. That didn't happen with me. My wife likes gambling. That's actually a different conversation. But you know where I'm going with this, Maui.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

I do, yes. And I I think I know where we're gonna be going here at the the next portion of this episode, Carl. Pitchers and catchers, they report tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

They report.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

You have a you got a lot, a lot of info on every single pitcher within this organization at this time. I want to hear about it. And I really I know the maniacs want to hear about it too, because now we're getting into the nitty-gritty. No more offseason jokes and just to fill time, the gambling thing went well, whatever. Let's get into the juice. Who do we start with? I can I just give it to you.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Well, yeah, I mean, I would say that what I'm about to talk about is actually exactly why I love the Cubs over 88 and a half wins this year.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Beautiful. Yeah, there we go. And what pitches do you think is going to open the opening day? What's the first pitch? What type of pitch is it gonna be? A baller strike, and was it a curveball? If I parlay that, I wanted it to be a curveball in the dirt.

Catchers Depth Chart And Roles

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Oh God, everybody get rich with me off these predictions. No, it is pitchers and catchers week, Mahoney. We've teased and joked before. This is a time for people to get too overly zealous about like baseballs, but baseball's not back, you know, spring church. We we are we still have ways to go before opening days here. Then I'll do the baseball's back thing officially. But I thought it would be a good exercise to go through the pitchers and the catchers and just kind of get everybody on the same page about, you know, this is the inventory of players and kind of hear some takes for you. So we'll just start with our catchers.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Beautiful. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

All right, so our tandem is Miguel Amaya and Carson Kelly is the starting tandem. And Moises by Asteros is the third catcher on the depth chart. And if all things go well, it's nice to have a third catcher in Moises by Asteros, similar to when I think Kyle Schwarber was a fourth catcher behind Montero, William, uh Wilson Contreras, and and David Ross. The nice thing is having a third catcher for emergency purposes. You know, a Miguel Amaya tears an oblique on the first half, a doubleheader, Carson Kelly has to catch the second game. He takes a foul ball off the shin. It's just nice knowing we're not going to ask Matt Shaw to throw on the gear, although I wouldn't be surprised if he was throwing on the gear as we speak. So, like, we'll start with Biosteros. In a perfect world, he catches zero meaningful innings for the Chicago Cubs. In a perfect world, he's only our designated hitter. But it's important to say up front, Moises Biasteros is a third emergency catcher, is a luxury. Uh, you know, not a lot of teams have to carry a qualified third emergency catcher.

unknown 35:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

So qualifying enough where he'll be able to catch a ball that the pitcher's throwing down. And it just won't be somebody who's going to be framing particularly. And his path in the big leagues is not going to be at that position. But the luxury sits the fact that we have him.

Rotation Philosophy And Inning Limits

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yes, that he can, for right now, still throw on the gear in a pinch, give you two innings, and it's not like the ball's rolling to the backstop every time. Now, above him, obviously, Carson Kelly and Miguel Emaia are different catchers because Maya's younger and more explosive and more aggressive, where Carson Kelly's obviously a senior statesman and somebody who showed a lot of power early last year. I have it as Carson Kelly starting three of five games, Miguel Emaia starting two of five games. Now, I think that'll be predicated largely on the pitcher for the Cubs more than the pitcher for the opponent. Okay. I don't think they're going to be mad. Well, Carson Kelly hits this guy well, and Amaya hits this guy well. I think they're going to use the catching tandem and say, Carson Kelly, we want you catching, whether it's Cade Horton, however that shakes out, but that would be something to follow in spring training, is who are the catchers more likely to be paired with? But overall, I would say Carson Kelly probably would catch three of five games in a week, and then Miguel Amaya would take the other two games. And then as far as offense is concerned, both projections have these guys around being league average major league hitters, 100 weighted run created plus, 100 OPS plus. And if that happens, then I think the clubs have one of the better catching tandems in baseball. As long as one of these guys doesn't have a regression fall off a cliff, Amaya should be pretty good if he's healthy. Carson Kelly probably won't be as good as he was last year. But overall, when we talk about the catcher group that's reporting, I do like it very much. I don't love it. I would love a who do you love? You love a JT real muto. You do love a Wilson Contreras when he's healthy. You love Yadir Molina, right? When he's rolling. We don't have the catching position where we're saying we love it, but it's way better than major league average.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Yeah, and I'll take it. I am also excited just to see if Amaya is healthy. I want to see what he could do over the course of a full year. And, you know, he's somebody I think we really missed out on having in our postseason run last year. So really hopeful that that works out. And I I do agree that I I'm very I feel very strong about our catching, you know, positions. I don't feel like we got you know all-star and then you know all all-star caliber players at every you know, one, two, and three. My Asteros, maybe, you know, as a hitter, but you know what I mean. I just I I love it, and it's uh that's a that's a cemented spot that you want to have leading into spring training for sure.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Now, if the other luxury we have, if a Maya or Carson Kelly were to have to go on the IL at some point this year, either one is good enough to catch for prolonged periods of time, as we saw last year when Amaya went down. Like Carson Kelly really picked it up. So we are lucky with that. And then I just trust the front office. Should we get in that position, can they get a Reese McGuire? Can they get somebody within the organization that can contribute? Because Biosteros isn't an emergency catcher for the long run. If one of these guys gets hurt, it's not like Biosteros is going to enter the catching rotation. He's there to DH. When I say emergency, I mean emergency in a double header, emergency in a week, an emergency where you can't get to the triple A catcher. That's kind of where it comes through as like a little advantage. But again, overall, like our catching group, don't necessarily love it, but that's just because I'd love an all-I love that all-star leader. We don't have that, but you know, can a Maya become that guy? We'll see this year. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Yeah, I'd say like you're at a good seven, seven out of ten.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Yeah. Eight and a half and above is all-star stuff. The next group is is our second greatest advantage on the team. Our number one advantage is our infield defense. Our infield defenses. I mean, it's it's so good. It's it's like a it's like a front four that can get after the quarterback without having to bring a blitz or anything. Like just it's it's an offensive line that goes out every single day and just beats the living shit out of you. It is our infield defense is perfect.

Cade Horton Plan And Usage

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah, just a relentless defense, dude. It's a relentless defense.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

And just a tick below that is our starting pitching. I think our starting pitching is unbelievable. I think the depth is huge. We have enough at the top that can shut you down. But really, once we get into these, like the third through the eighth guys, and I've got 10 starting pitchers here, but I'd be stupid not to start with Kate Horton. He should be the opening day starter, but I doubt that they make him the opening day starter just because inning stuff, pitching her, like he just maybe give him another little bit of time, unless it's obvious through spring training that he's like geared it up. I'm still just sensitive with how much we use him in April and May in the Cubs, as we're gonna talk about with Eddie Cabrera. There's so many early cold games at Wrigley Field. Like, I just take, I know this sucks with Kate Horton because we just want to see him come out of the gate, throw a set. Just take it slow with him. He shouldn't throw anywhere near 150 innings this year. I hope he never pitches into the seventh inning of a game unless it's to get a uh unless it's like a dominant no-hitter performance. But like we're still at the point with Kate Horton. We just want to be developing so that come October we don't have what we had last year, where it's like little wear and tear, shoulder messes up. We can't use him in the playoffs. Like, we need Cade Horton to pitch game one of the playoffs. He's gonna be good enough to do that. So that's why I'm like, yeah, maybe not the opening day start, even though he should. He's our best pitcher right now. He's just by far our best pitcher. But Cade Horton, that's where we stand.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Love it. We knew what we had in Cade Horton last year, but then it almost went a little bit above and beyond what my expectations were and how quickly he excelled at the major league level. And now that we know, we know we know what we got, um, it's just a great thing to be able to see him pitch. And I do agree, I do not want to see him in early cold weather games, you know, all that often, pitching his lights and then, you know, yeah, grinding out. We don't need to hard or whatever the hell.

Steele’s Leadership And Return

SPEAKER_00 41:39

If these guys are healthy and we'll get through the rest of this, like we there's at the we're just not in a position where like we need Cade Horton into the seventh inning against the Dodgers in mid-April, like that is trash. That would be so bad for us. And part of this, and what I'm encouraging maniacs, is yeah, the wins are important in April and May and all that stuff. But if we believe we're a good team, and if we believe we're a deep team, and we believe that over the course of the season, our our infield play and our offensive approach and the lack of strikeouts, and just having this great defense is gonna give us opportunities to win so many games over the long run. I'm not putting the weight on our starting pitching to be these guys that have to throw 90 pitches every time out. And I like the depth that we have across the staff because we have so many guys that can contribute. So, especially in April, especially in early May, before that weather really turns to the high 60s, low 70s in Wrigley. I want to see pitch counts and inning limits, even if it sucks in that moment, even if you want to get the series win against the Phillies, and it's yeah, we're gonna pick it up.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Oh, dude, I'll be bitching about it too. Don't get me wrong, I'll be the one complaining about it on Twitter and stuff, but I also know the bigger picture. So it'll be I when I have to remind myself, pinch myself. Remember what we talked about with Carl on Monday Morning Cub show. It's a long, it's a long game this year, folks.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

That's 100% where I'm going, Mahoney. Like, just condition yourself to I I think it's gonna be worth it in the long run because just remember how much it sucked in Milwaukee going into a game five and not having anybody you could pitch.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Yeah, literally. And somebody who like needed like one additional week of rest. I know Kate Horton. That was it. Yeah, it was like if it was the next day or two, I think he might have been going. I don't know that for sure, but you know, great, love Kate Horton. Can't wait to see what he's gonna be doing this year, you know, in his full season campaign. I keep saying campaign, like I'm doing Call of Duty or something. I don't know why.

Eddie Cabrera As X-Factor

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Number two, and and I think we're doing these rankings is just who I think are our best pitchers. Say it's like you know, it's the middle of July, and this is kind of how I'm seeing things shake up. So obviously, Justin Steele, and Justin Steele is the leader of the pitching staff. If he was healthy right now, should be the opening day starter. All those, all those bells and whistles that you love about Justin Steele, and I expect him to pick. Up right where he left off whenever he comes back. So if it's late April, if it's early May, however the Cubs want to use him and bring him along, as long as when they bring him along, then you just start that progression to be healthy towards the end of the season. Um, you know, like gun to my head, I'd probably have him pitch game two of a playoff series just because I love the idea of going a Cade Horton one into a Justin Steele two, because if you lose game one, you have the veteran presence of Justin Steele in a game two. You can maybe use a little bit more of your electric stuff, game one. But as I look at these starting pitches, like I have Cade Horton one, I have Justin Steele two, but I still have Justin Steele as the leader of the pitching staff. Kind of the way when like Arietta was better than John Lester, but you still were like John Lester's, it's still his staff, no matter like I know that's but it's Lester staff.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Right. No, I know what you mean. And if you guys really want to know how we feel about Justin Steele, go listen to the episode where we had Jake on because we went off a tangent about the makeup of that man and everything that we love about him. So that's really what I'm pumped to see about Justin Steele returning to form, you know, after injury.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

And then I have Edward Cabrera slotted three above Matt Boyd, above show to Imanaga. And that's just because he hasn't been in a situation to thrive. He hasn't been around a good pitching environment. We've talked extensively about how much the Marlin situation sucked. And Eddie Cabrera, Cy Young stuff, right? First thing I like calling him Eddie Cabrera. I'd get rid of this Edwards stuff. Like you're pitching for the Chicago Cubs, you're on the north side, you're an Eddie. Um, we just need him to be healthy, you know, drag his ass slowly out of the gate. You know, and this is going to be a big theme that we're talking about, but like we do have a lot of these early games at Wrigley Field. I don't need Eddie Cabrera coming out logging 100 pitches, you know, when it's 48 degrees outside with a stiff breeze off Lake Michigan. You know, and I also would encourage Maniacs, don't complain about Eddie Cabrera too much until we kind of get into the second half of May. Then I think you can get pissed off about the guy. He's never pitched in cold weather like this before. He's obviously in a situation where he's going to be making some adjustments. The Cubs are going to be throwing a lot of stuff at Eddie Cabrera now that they have him in spring training, work on this. What do you feel about this? And he's coming from an environment with the Marlins. You're not doing any of that stuff. The hands-on coaching and training. So it's just going to be a very intensive process for Eddie Cabrera. So it's like to me, bring this guy along slowly. He can fill the three roll. If he fills the three roll, that means that you get to bump a couple guys back. If he's good enough to pitch in the three-roll, like that would just be absolutely insane. Again, it's stuff to win a Cy Young. Um, it just gonna take a minute for him to get going all the cold weather games.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

Well, I'm excited to see Eddie take the mountain in the Cubs uniform for sure. I'm excited to see what our pitch lab has done with him in this offseason and what they've done with other players of the past, like a Matthew Boyd.

Boyd, Shota, And Taillon As Stabilizers

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Perfect. And I'd say these top three guys I've listed, I've made the argument all when opening day starts. Like, obviously Justin Steele's not going to be ready. I'm saying you're gonna have to put Eddie Cabrera on a leash, and I'm saying we're gonna have to monitor Cade Horton's pitch limit. So, like, these top three guys we're being sensitive with to open the year. But the reason we can do that is because the next guys I'm about to list. I mean, these are guys that just put up quality starts. Matthew Boyd, if Matthew Boyd is pitching as our number four because Eddie Cabrera has vaulted himself into the number three, now we have the best number four in baseball. Right as long as he doesn't fall off a cliff from last year, it's and then that his his inning count should level off, then we won't be asking Matthew Boyd to do as much as we did last year, as from what I've seen.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

And um, I yeah, I love it, dude. I think that's great. Even having Matthew Boyd as a four, just phenomenal stuff.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

And in the bullpen, as we're gonna get to in a little bit, the depth of the bullpen, the quality of the bullpen really does certify that you don't need Matt Boyd pitching into the seventh inning. We don't need these guys going more than it's like if you can give me five and two-thirds innings, if you could give me six innings is cra is crazy. And like these are guys last year, Matt Boyd, six inning machine, quality start machine.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

You know, he's on last he's fine. It was on and it was like those short starts, is where he would get blown up.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

We know that that's not gonna happen this year, and I think contract year, right? I think I think this I think he had the two-year deal for the Cubs for like 30 million dollars, was an all-star last year. So it's like he doesn't even have to take steps forward. It just has to be he's like if he's as good as he was last year, then he's gonna get a five-year, 110 million dollar deal next year. So we like having these incentives, and that's Matt Boyd, who at the start of the year could pitch in the two, three range as the season goes on. It's July, it's September. We're kind of thinking about the playoffs. Now, Matt Boyd, hopefully Eddie Cabrera, Kate Horton, and Justin Steele have kind of forced Matt Boyd to pitch more on that four. And now we're talking Shota five. Showday. I mean, that's crazy too, because I'm thinking I was thinking Jameson, but then you got Shota.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Give it to me.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

Right. Like this is a contract year with a chip on your shoulder. It's it shouldn't be a contract year, in his opinion. He was probably expecting the Cubs to pick up three years and 57 million. They don't, then he took then he accepts the qualifying offer from the Cubs. I mean, this is like really masterful chess.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

I couldn't believe that it worked out that way. I really could not believe that it worked out, and I do think that that was a master class by Jed.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

And if if he's healthy and he's happy and he's competing and he's he's his classic show to don't take me out, I'm pitching in with the 92 mile an hour fastball. Another little thing, I like that he's not on the world baseball classic roster, from my understanding, just laser focus into getting himself ready. The contract year, the chip on his shoulder. He could have a monster first half because of this stuff. Like he was a little worn down the road uh last year in the second half. If I had a choice, I'd rather have him be a little bit slower out of the gate in the first half and then really turn it on in the second half. Beggars can't be choosers here. Like, I don't really have a clue how he could bump ahead of K Justin or Eddie Cabrera if those things go well or a Matt Boyd into a playoff rotation. But I think when I'm looking at Joda, I'm going 162 games. If he's healthy to give his 27 good, healthy starts. We are rolling with this guy pitching out of really necessity, he's gonna be pitching at the back of our rotation.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

Yeah, that's crazy if you would have told me that the start of last year. Joda was much washed baseball for a long, long time until he started getting, you know, hamstring issues and things with his legs. And then I honestly do feel he wasn't nearly even 80%, you know, when he was getting roughed up towards the end of the season.

Depth Pieces: Rea And Assad

SPEAKER_00 50:34

I want to say through his first 50 career starts, he pitched to a 2.75 YRA. Yeah, you take that any day. Yeah. And then obviously, it's like you get hurt a little bit, you're worn down, you lose a little bit. All right, fine, we're just gonna be a five. Be a five or be a six, because at six on my list, I've got Jamison Tan, who's really the sole reason I think the Cubs can go to a six-man rotation early, help with these limit counts. He's just a seasoned professional. He dominates day games at Wrigley Field. He's the guy who just mixes it in the strike zone. He's very aggressive, he's got a whole bunch of pitches. It's everything you want in a backhand veteran reliever. You know, and he's super weird. He's a Pokemon guy, he's he's a friendly guy, he's not a dominant personality. It's a guy who's gonna take whatever the front office gives him. If they say, hey, go make 25 starts, make 25 starts. If it's make 15, he'll make 15. If it's pitch long relief out of the bullpen because things are rolling in the second half, like he'll give you whatever he wants. It's his last year with the Cubs, so you do have that other contract year thing where like it just it's kind of a perfect.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

This is good shit, man. Yeah, that like stars are aligning. It is the perfect miss. And really, what you'd said earlier, like day games at Wrigley, if there's anyone I want pitching in a cold weather game during the day, it's Jameson Taon. I wouldn't even shift around the the rotation if you need to, you know, at certain points in certain weeks, or you can, I should say. He's the dude I want having the ball in those cold games where people can, you know, take a break. Cabrera, don't worry about it. Jameson's got this one.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

If they don't want to throw Eddie Cabrera until the second week of the season when they're in warmer weather, you can do that. Jameson Taon can pitch competently in the rotation, so we're not really sitting around going, we can't wait till Justin Steele gets back. More like when Justin Steele gets back, this is gonna be awesome. So we just like, nah, we don't love Jamison Tam, but we love Jamison Tan. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 52:20

I I do kind of love him, yeah. And I think the guys in the clubhouse love him. You really do see him out and about with a lot of his teammates. You know, you he talked like Bregman went to his house the day he announced his signing. So I love the fact that Jamison seems like a very likable dude. I've never met him, but it seems like everyone else kind of uh you know gravitates towards his personality type.

Prospects Watch: Wiggins And Wicks

SPEAKER_00 52:40

And just a tick below him, but still with that veteran grittiness. It's like I don't I don't hate him at all. I don't I don't hate this guy at all. I don't love him, you know, but I don't hate him at all. And it's Colin Ray, who's an all-time backup guy to me. Just like the backup to the backup, making almost no money, uh, wants to play for Craig Council, and he's gonna he can give you six solid innings on an aircraft carry in the middle of the Indian Ocean against the 1927 Yankees. Like he doesn't give a shit what the circumstance is, just give me the ball, I'll go out and I'll I'll compete. Now, again, I don't want to see Colin Ray on a playoff mound almost ever, unless dire circumstances. But if it's mid-August, if it's early June, it's one of these cold, shitty situations, the guy's hurt, you need someone to step in. Like, I love the 75 innings Colin Ray is gonna pitch for this team. You know, in a perfect world, he only pitches 50. At a perfect world, he's a long reliever in the bullpen. In a perfect world, we don't see him. But the fact that he's a competent starting pitcher for the Chicago Cubs, and we're not gonna ask, we're not really asking anything of him unless it's needed makes me happier, and it goes right into the same thing with Javier Assad pitching for Mexico in the world baseball classic, a fan favorite as a soft tosser. You know, he's got a real bad body, which people like, um, a great nickname in the ass man. If he throws more than 100 innings for the 2026 Cubs, I'd say it's really bad for the team, or it's really good for Assad because he's just stepped up and has been lights out. Like it's it's one of these situations. The more playing time he gets, we're gonna be on opposite end of the spectrum of saying, is this good or bad? And and I think the only real probability is he's pitching a lot because he's done very well, but just as like an insurance policy, Javier Assad is your number eight. I think every single team in Major League Baseball would trade whoever their eighth guy is on the depth chart for Javier Assad.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

Yeah, man. He I he he's the biggest question mark to me heading into this year, uh, you know, with the makeup of of our guys. Um just had been hurt, didn't get to really get much consistency last year, didn't get really many starts. So yeah, biggest question mark for me is Assad. I would love to see him do well for obvious reasons.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

But like he may not get the chance because you know, if Justin Seal comes back, it's great. If Taon's throwing the pill well, he's gonna have to out compete, guys, or other guys are gonna have to, you know, not do well. But I think if there's somebody who can just go out and compete and give you zeros, and again, the other thing, he can take a start. You could tell him the night before, I need you to start tomorrow morning, and you're gonna get the same effort if he was an everyday starter with his program. Like he's a guy who can just take the ball and go compete. And I love that about him. Now, the other two starting pitchers, those are the eight guys we can go right now. Spring training starts, we got eight guys that could just fill in a mix. There's two other names I just want to include, both on the outside. Jackson Wiggins and Jordan Wicks, both top draft picks, one much sooner than the other. Jackson Wiggins, I've said this before, don't personally like this guy, has kind of got douchebag SEC vibes, and I just can't avoid you know that bugging me. However, you know, like the reason you have douchebag SEC vibes because you are an SEC guy who throws 100 plus, and people just like everybody wants to see a pitch. Like people show up to see this guy's stuff. I have him flagged as a starter right now because they're gonna treat him like a starter in spring training, they're gonna treat him like a spar uh starter in the minor leagues. But if he does get his reps with this this Cubs team in any meaningful action, it's gonna be out of the bullpen, which means he could be an X Factor down the stretch because he's got some of the best swing and miss stuff across the entire organization. You just don't know. Is he a Ben Brown? You know, gets a little adversity, throws the ball down the middle of the plate, or is he a tough guy who can make secondary pitches? That's all stuff we're gonna find out because I don't know right now about Jackson Wiggins, but just elite big arm stuff.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Can I don't have you don't have to answer this now? But well, what's the likelihood we're gonna see Wiggins on the big league ball club this year? It contributing innings.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

Uh not like you're gonna see him this year 100, 99 unless he gets hurt. Okay. Um, but like is he coming up because it's June, and you know, you just want to see him throw three innings and then bring them back, or is he coming up because he's up?

SPEAKER_01 56:57

Right, yeah. It that's and I hate the comparison, I guess because it's an easy reach for me, but then it brings me back to Cade. Like, we were bringing Cade on, and it was like, all right, here we go. This dude's he's sticking around. You know, I just I know it's they're different types of pitchers, but just curious, really.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

You would never be in a situation last year where Cade Horton was an option to go to the bullpen. I mean, the first start, then they have him come out of the bullpen. Like, he's just a starting pitcher, plain and simple. There's no path for him outside of that. Jackson Wiggins, you know, they'd like to see him start and they want him to start. Like, he won't have a good changeup. You know, how Kate Horton found his changeup in three weeks, and it was just awesome. Like, that's not at all gonna happen for Jackson Wiggins. That's just because they're different athletes. Like, he's way bigger than Kate Horton, has way more power behind him, has just way more like whoosh to him. Um, but then he's gonna miss on some of the more athletic movements that Kate Horton can execute, which is repeating good cut fastballs, being able to pick up a two-seam fastball, throwing change-ups over the plate. So that's that's kind of the difference between the two. If Jackson Wiggins is dominant, he he won't dominate as a starter. I mean, just be realistic. Like it would take it would take a huge leap for him. Um ultimately, I kind of see him in the bullpen, but the the the now we're getting a little deep. I I like it.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

I mean, yeah, I knew that question could go a long way.

Bullpen Hierarchy And Trade Outlook

SPEAKER_00 58:17

And some of the last guys we'll talk about with the bullpen, we'll we'll move through that quickly. But it it those guys will dictate the opportunities Wiggins gets. Last starter, I just have quickly here, former first-round draft pick Jordan Wicks. Um, this is probably his last real opportunity to be anything more, you know, than like a bust with the Cubs. That's just the reality of the game. It's a hard game. They drafted him because he has a wipeout changeup, but lost the feel with the changeup. And I would guess part of that is the college ball has significantly higher seams, and it's much easier to consistently rip off a pronated changeup on that. However, major league balls that have flatter seams, you can get more action, you can get more movement, but it's harder to control. And so I would guess as a heavy pronation guy, Jordan Wicks was able to throw these filthy high seam changeups, and he probably still has filthy action to his changeup, but he can't repeat it. He's just had issues staying healthy. This is a guy where, like, if he does click, it has to happen now. The urgency's there, but he's listed as our 10th starting pitcher. Like, he's not even trade bait right now, but there is something lurking with him from the filthiness of his changeup. We just haven't seen any of it. Ben Hurt, some confidence issue stuff, like just kind of real outlier, but a name to keep your you know eye on spring training because he could have a great spring training, and then people are gonna be talking about like, wow, what do we do with Jordan Wicks? But he's just in that mix, so fair.

SPEAKER_01 59:49

That's fair. A lot of people are saying fair lately in the lexicon. But whatever. That's fine. Um, yeah, Jordan Wicks, we'll see, man. Uh yeah, he's another guy like I haven't seen enough of. Like, I've wanted to, I loved it when he came first came around, and then it just it I haven't seen enough of it, so I just don't know. But I love to hear about pronated changeups and the and the seam aspect and the physics of the ball. I I learned a lot talking to you, Carl. So I appreciate I really appreciate these breakdowns. It it really makes you think about how just the different makeup of different dudes and the fact that we have 10 starters that you just ripped off. Man, is that a good problem to have? Like, how is this guy gonna fit in? It that that is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

We have I have some bullpen stuff. I want to get through quickly. We're a little bit over time here on the show. Um, so obviously, I want to thank everybody for tuning in. I got a little preachy about the gambling stuff, but some of that stuff hits close to home. And I wanted to circle back on that before we get to the bullpen. I'm not calling anybody out the maniacs. Like, I know people have, and if you have problems, it's okay because so many people have issues with stuff. Like everybody's got issues. Don't feel isolated on that. I'm not preaching and saying you're a bad person, there's a better life out there. All right, let's talk about let's talk about the bullpen. Um, walla strength, also opportunities to improve. We're just gonna start here quickly. All right, guys. We know a lot of these names, and so I'm just gonna be quick here. Palencia is the closer, but I still don't love him necessarily. He can take a step forward this year, he can step forward and be better, but I just don't know how much I love him if we are gonna be a top team in the National League. And the comparison I would draw is the 2016, our closer was Hector Rodan, who going into late July had a 195 ERA, was 18 of 22 in save opportunities with an 11.6 strikeout per nine inning against just a 1.2 walk per nine inning, which gave him at the time one of the best walk-to-strikeout ratios in all of Major League Baseball. And the Cubs still unloaded Gleibar Torres for a role this Chapman. And Chapman was like the most important reliever that like anybody's traded for like ever.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

Hector was having one of the best seasons that a Cubs closer ever has had, and we trade we traded to get Chapman anyway. So yeah, I can see the longevity of like, yeah, Palency in that role. I got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:19

That's exactly how we treat Palency. Like Hector O'Don was great, they're both Venezuelan, he was great, we liked him, powerful stuff, but but if there is an opportunity at the trade deadline to get a bona fide, because there are closers who are better than Palencia, and that's just a fairness that Cubs fans have to accept. He's good, there are better closers. He's good enough for us, he can be great, but there's an opportunity. I'm not saying we do trade to improve closer, but that is something there. And then the next group of guys I just love to death Caleb Thielbar, Phil Mayton. These are two just like can pitch at the end of the game with no nerfs. Tilbar's solid lefty, emerged from nowhere last year despite being 38 years old, loves playing for the Cubs, has balls the size of my head, super serious guy. Most lefties are kind of think of Andrew Chaffin, like your traditional lefty relievers, you know, a little bit goofy. Tealbar is crazy, and that's because he's got a crazy background. I implore maniacs, take a look at his background. This guy's been in and out of baseball, made it to the big league super early, then was a career minor leaguer, then was out, then was playing independent ball, then was coaching his college team. So, like how he got back to the Cubs, he's just a murderer now. Like, he's not afraid of anything. There's a reason we brought him back for a second year. He's our number one lefty, and then our number one righty behind him is Phil Maiton. Best curveball in Major League Baseball bull pens. The best curveball in a major league baseball bullpen is from Phil Maiton. Extremely unique veteran presence, not overpowering, just a classic bullduck, throw strikes with a thousand different fucking pitches, can throw any pitch in any count. Um, and just like a perfect guy to take down a two, three, four in an eighth inning. Like just a perfect guy to go see the middle of an order at the end of a baseball game. Think of Andrew Kittridge, except more reliable. Like that's our veteran righty presence. And Tielbar and Mayton are the guys why I say starting pitchers, just go five and two-thirds. Just go six. We have guys that consistently in the sixth and seventh inning can shut them down. Our big flyer after that is Hunter Harvey, who is like a Brad Keller from last year. Like, if he works out, that's amazing. Guy throws high 90s, was injured last year, hasn't been as good as maybe you'd like, but just somebody that for six million dollars could turn out to be somebody who pitches in 70 games and is fucking awesome for us. Sorry for the no, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:42

If that happens, then the kind of faith that I would have in Jed in the pitch lab and all that moving forward would literally be just rock solid because they did it again. So that's what I want to see.

Closing Vibes And Next Week’s Tease

SPEAKER_00 1:04:55

So what I've tried, and I'm trying to break this out to think about it. We have our closer with Palencia, and then we have Tilbar and Mayton who are just just just like pencil them in for sub three ERAs, pencil them in for just being extremely reliable and dependable. Then underneath that, Hunter Harvey, he can be amazing, he could be the best out of the whole group. Um, if he's healthy, if he takes advantage of the pitch lab. Then the two guys underneath that are next ready, Jacob Webb, and the other lefty, Hobie Milner. These are guys that can have success that have maybe not been as good as their potential suggests. Jacob Webb, textbook solid above average reliever. He's top 10% in fly balls. Cubs have a ton of time when the wind's blowing in. We could get a ton of success from him. Um, Hobie Milner had a ton of success with Craig Council two years ago, and then was just used way too much by the Texas Rangers. He's had back to back underwhelming seasons, but that's because he's averaging 70 appearances a year. He should be pitching in 52 games. He should be pitching in 51 games. And the fact that we have Teal Bar as a left. Means Hobie Milner can be our second lefty, where Hobie Milner for the last two years has been pitching as the primary lefty out of bullpen. So the fact that he's bumped down to the second lefty status for the Cubs means less appearances, fresher funk. So we like that a lot out of Hobie Milton. Better for him. Yep. And then the last two guys then are just flyers that they're awesome, they're awesome. Big, big arms, Porter Hodge, Luke Little. These are guys that just throw 100 miles an hour. Absolutely filthy. Porter Hodge gave up nine homers last year in 33 innings. Luke Little can't throw a strike. Should either of those two guys take steps forward? Hodge is interesting because he added a slider last year, probably because he's got shoulder issues from going back and forth between four seam and sweepers. So he added a slider to kind of be some middle ground. That thing got shit on relentlessly. He was very bad last year. So it's just tidying up adjustments he's made. If he can do that, he'll be awesome. And we have him listed as like maybe seventh, eighth out of the bullpen, Luke Little, maybe eighth, ninth. You know, and some of the starting pitchers that don't make the starting rotation will be out of the bullpen. So it's kind of a fluid thing here. These are the 18 pitchers that I have. Jackson Wiggins out of the bullpen would be great. There's some room to improve the bullpen in trades and stuff, and somebody could emerge from triple A, but as it stands, like I just love the composition of having the closer in Palencia, having the two guys after him, Teal Bar and Maiton, having a flyer in Hunter Harvey who could be elite, having two more stable, ready lefty, and Jacob Webb and homie, Hobie Milner, and then having Porter Hodge and Luke Little our guys that like if they are who they can be, now we're talking about the best both at a major league baseball.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:38

Boom. And Carl, man, masterfully done. Thank you so much. I had a I had a quip that I was ready to go, but it's gone. Um it just goes back to Valentine's Day. What I love the depth that you just described to me on our entire pitching staff really has me like it's just this is so flexible. Like things can happen. We don't have guys do not have to over strain and overthink about things because we got other dudes that could do it for them in different situations. So it's a beautiful thing, Carl.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:14

And that's where we're at, dude. Pitchers and catchers report this week.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

That's right. Pictures and catchers report. We can't, yeah, we had a little we made fun of it a little last week, and then look at everything that Carl has to talk about today. So that's that's phenomenal. Um, thank you for tuning in. This is the Monday morning cub show. Carl, you are gonna detail now uh the the lineup next week. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:38

Yeah, we're gonna go through the position players similar to what we've done. And again, like there's so many things can happen, as these guys report and throw, and guys could get hurt, guys get a blister, guys could fall out of a hot tub, crack a rib. I mean, a lot of this stuff is gonna change. Not everybody here is gonna be on the roster at the end of the season. But what we're trying to do is give maniacs enough of a taste of the story with these guys. Like it's not just the number on the stat cast thing, oh, his spin rate is this and that. I mean, the narrative and the story we've picked out, there's a bunch of contract years with veterans. Show the Imanaga, Matt Boyd, Jameis and Teon. We've got Justin Steele who still wants that big contract coming back from an injury. We've got Kate Horton who promises to be one of the best right-handed young starting pitchers in baseball, if he could just be healthy. And so this should guide the way people feel about the news and the stuff that's coming out from spring training as we get ready to opening day and as we carry ourselves through the first half of the season. Like, don't get worked up if a guy doesn't come out in the fifth inning. Don't get mad if the bullpen blows a game early. Like, there's just shit is gonna have to happen for the building blocks to get put into place. But once it does fall into place with this pitching staff, top to bottom, starters and bullpen, I have no doubt, no doubt that it will be a top five pitching staff collectively, bullpen and starters in all the major league baseball. No doubt about it. And I give all the credit to Jed in the pitch lab.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

Carl, that is a fantastic thing to hear. Take us home, baby. I got I got nothing left in this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:12

If you guys get a chance, you know, just leave a five-star review. That's all we asked for. Apple, Spotify, check out Thirsty Vicaro, uh, and of course, Stirk Family Farms. If you guys use the Monday morning cub show promo, which is MMC as you get 20% checkout. Valentine's Days around the corner. Get your old lady a nice lip balm, get her some face cream, get her a little eye cream, get it get it for yourself. Look better for her. That's all I got.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

Till next time, folks.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:39

I don't need to take this out now. We'll see you guys next time. We gotta get better at this. Love you guys. See you next week.