The Longest MMCS Ever w/ Cubs Prospect EXPERT Bryan Smith

The trade deadline is where Cubs fans either spiral or lock in, and we’re choosing lock in. After a long, weird, very honest solo ramp-up about what it feels like to live pitch-to-pitch with a team that can actually win, we bring on Brian Smith from Baseball America, the most plugged-in Cubs prospects voice you’ll find anywhere online. If you’ve been staring at prospect lists, worrying about who we shipped out, and trying to figure out what the Cubs just told us about their future, this conversation is built for you. 

We dig into the moves that matter: Kevin Gausman, Clay Holmes, Tyrone Taylor, and the prospect cost that triggered the loudest reactions. Brian breaks down Jefferson Rojas with real nuance, explains why some “Top 100” guys are more tradable than fans think, and names the true untouchables in the system from the Cubs’ point of view. We also get into why certain bats get squeezed on a high-payroll roster, how catching value changes everything, and what it means when the front office prioritizes October innings over long-term WAR debates. 

Then we zoom out to the big question: what did we learn about Jed Hoyer as a leader and a buyer? Brian’s answer is sharp, and it paints a clear picture of how the Cubs may use their farm system to keep the major league roster winning year after year instead of riding a rebuild roller coaster. If you care about the Cubs trade deadline, Cubs prospects, farm system strategy, and the playoff push, hit play, send this to a friend who’s melting down in the group chat, and then subscribe, share, and leave a review so we can keep doing this all season.

Thanks for tuning in! 

- Carl & Mahoney

Transcript

Solo Friday Reset And Big Tease

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Good morning, good afternoon, and evening, Chicago Cubs fans, and welcome back to the Monday morning Cubs Show. Today is I mean, gun to my head, I'm gonna say it's Friday, August 7th. And when I say it's Friday, August 7th, I'm gonna say the Chicago Cubs are playing in elite level baseball. And this is probably my favorite Friday show. I've sat down to record solo. No Mahoney. Mahoney is is a sales guy, is a successful sales guy with a family and with a whole bunch of shit going on. And that's why when we sit down and do the Monday morning coach, we're always so thankful that one of my closest friends is extremely available to facilitate what I perceive to be great conversations about why specifically this team, this organization, right now, if we're living in the 26th season, like we're good enough to win a World Series, right? Like we are. If you've you've caught the last whatever 70 episodes of the season, how many are there this season? Enough to justify the fact the team's good enough to be a World Series winner. So I have to start there with that. There's a couple other things on the outline, and obviously, you gotta lead with the guests. We don't do guests on the Monday morning cub show. There's specific reasons to not having guests. Be dead honest with you guys. I don't necessarily love guests uh as it relates to like the thing we're putting out is about the team and the fundamentals, like the ABCs of successful baseball and good baseball, and what we're looking for and what players are doing and why pitchers are having success, and where pitchers can you know make adjustments and we're and we're very much from a fan perspective on the Monday Morning Cub show, right? Like, like if you've been on this journey, this is our third full season we've done the show. It is in the nuts and bolts, it is in the bedrock of the friendship of me and Mahoney. It's those two things. It's the fact that we want to get dirty into details, but you know, at the same time, you're like that's kind of lame. So we gotta balance that a little bit. We gotta find a right place, you know, to have a little fun and enjoy a 162-game baseball season, which to be honest with you, if you follow it 162 like I do, if you're in it with the pitch-to-pitch situations, if if you know, you're really sitting there and watching games, it is a mental exercise. That's all it is. It is purely in between your ears, and it will ruin you. This team can ruin you, this game can ruin you, the sport can ruin you, and then that's what the Monday morning come show is for. So we can we can all come together as people who go, I got worse sleep last night than I did the night before because we lost. Because we because Caleb Tilbar, what the fuck, man? You know, like that's that energy we're trying to capture, and that's why I'm very happy in a long-winded intro to say I should, I honestly should cancel the show. The fact that it's three and a half minutes in, and I'm

Why Prospects Matter Today

SPEAKER_00 3:35

like, here Brian Smith is gonna join the show. I should I shouldn't even be on a microphone right now at how much I've buried the fucking lead. I shouldn't. Whatever, whatever you're doing today, you could be going to a job right now, you'd be getting ready to operate heavy machinery, you know, to drive a fucking school bus, you know, whatever it is you do for work. You're more qualified than me. If I'm burying the lead that Brian Smith, who is the number one Cubs prospect guy, period, on the internet, there's nobody who follows Cubs minor league baseball to the extent that Brian Smith does. He has 30,000 followers on Twitter, all driven from Cubs prospects. He's joining the show. We're gonna talk about the Cubs trade deadline and in very specific about the prospects that we gave up, about how you should feel about the prospects we gave up, what the farm system looks like, Jed, uh, you know, like Jed, what do we want to say? We're gonna say reactions to Jed overall as a leader of the organization based on the trade devon. What did we learn about Jed? I'll tell you, we asked the fucking guy who knows more than anybody else online talking about minor leaders. I'll guarantee you, I'll guarantee you, Brian Smith. So he'll be on the second half of the show. But there's a couple of things I want to get to personally one-on-one with you guys, under that same spirit of this is important to me, I'm gonna try and make it important to you, and I'm gonna try and make it in a way that enhances your experience when you're sitting at home and you're watching the Cubs, you know, and your wife's bitching at you, we gotta take the dog out. What are we doing this weekend? And and you're just trying to find mental space for yourself because you're a guy who works hard. You're you're a guy who wants, you know, some space alone, some time to just watch the fucking ballgame, lady. You know, you know, I don't say that, oh, I do say lady to my wife, it does piss her off every now and then. What do you want, lady? Lady, it's an old Kenny Rogers song. My point is that if if you really value the day-to-day experience of being a Cubs fan, right? Which is like, you know, do you hear the injury update? I mean, we're not even talking about rehab starts. I'm talking about did you hear he's throwing from 90 feet? And you value that information, that information gets presented to you, you go fucking right on, dude. Who are we talking about? We talking about Jackson, I fine. Apply it to Jackson Wiggins, apply it to Justin Steele, apply it to Ben Brown, apply it to Kate Horton, apply there's so many arms in the organization where you go, I heard he was throwing from 90 feet today, and then you start to feel it a little bit, you know. You're like, ooh, he's coming back, he's gonna be hot, he's gonna that's the sweet spot of where we are in the Monday morning come show. We feel great, we feel good, we feel sensational. It's a word I use a lot. Decisively, and I would

July Peak And Playoff Mindset

SPEAKER_00 6:40

argue I use the word sensational precisely. If you get a sensational from me, it's on purpose, and what I'm trying to say is it has been a sensational season to follow. It has been one of my all-time favorites, peaks, valleys, whatever. The highs of the 2026 season are as high as I would say uh, and we get into this just frankly a little bit with Brian. If someone wants to pick out a month that's better than July 2026, I'm listening. I am listening. I'll give you April 2016. I'm gonna give you August of 2015. Okay. There's a three-week window there in 2021. It stopped about mid-June, then we did a fire sale. I'm going months purely, just months. Just start, bookend it. One to thirty, one to thirty-one, however you count your fucking days here, folks. All right, and I'm saying the 2026 cubs over the month of July are a I mean tick, fraction, a frame, a millimeter, a fart. A fart. Just a quaint little they smell that and was that you was that me? You're not sure who just fucking dropped ass. That type of fart, that's the 2026 July Cubs. You're not sure how to categorize it. If it it is, it feels good, smells dirty. You know what I'm saying? That's what we're coming out of. So we have playoff hopes. The next 10 weeks, me and Mahoney, you know, I'll get into some of this stuff later if I decide. Because I want what I want to do on the show is obviously get to Brian Smith, who is again the foremost expert, period, online anywhere, about Chicago Cubs prospects. So you make a trade. We got Clay Holmes, he's heard fucking we get up, Jefferson Rojas, and and those conversations exist everywhere, all over the place. Troop chats everywhere. We're here to clean that up. We're here to give you a good look, give you a feel, taste. What does it actually mean? What do we learn from Jed? Is Jed different from 21? Is there any what's the difference him and Theo?

unknown 9:04

Right?

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Theo is a good buyer. Is Jed a good buyer? Is Jed a good seller? Right? Is just with Josiah, we kept Josiah Hartson, you know, Owen Ayers, but we did give up some of our top guys. So where do we where do we feel in the long term? Which the reason we're plugging in the conversation with Brian Smith here, because we're date, we're day-to-day on the Monday morning come show. We're date, we're game to game pitch a pitch. We're lunatics, we're psychos. You know, it's it I I to be quite frank with you guys. I'm a little impressed with the Monday Morning Cum show that we were able to come up for air for a second and then like rope in a third-party guy who knows a ton of what's going on outside of our insane world here of just just all I care about is winning. That's it. Like I care about winning right now, today, tomorrow. Who are we playing? I want to beat him. I want to win. I want to take that division. I want to hang a pennant nail. I want to show up to Wrigley Field 15 years from now. I want to have a couple of little little cows around me. I'm gonna say, hey, that guy, you see that pennant? Daddy was there when he was tied on the Monday morning cub show when he was just building his little thing on the Cub Show. Remember Daddy doing that? That's what I want. I want that Central Division banner hanging. I want to fucking roll into Wrigley Field for the rest of my life. I want to see it. I want to look at it. I'm gonna say, I remember that banner. I remember that season. I remember Alex Bregman, two outs, down to nothing against the Blue Jays. And if you guys excuse me, if you guys excuse me, I'm gonna say arguably the most emotional thing I've ever said on the Cub show, ever. You I'll I'll guarantee the side I'm about to expose to you guys does not exist on the internet. I just miss mystery. Carl, Carl, I will give you a taste of something in this side of me that

Sponsor Message And Community Thanks

SPEAKER_00 11:05

you you'll be surprised about. But before I do that, I'm gonna ask you guys to get a little taste of Thirsty Vaquero, which is a Mexican-style soda with a signature spicy finish. And if you are fast forwarding through this ad read, you are jinxing the 2026 Cubs. So fuck you. Right? I just fuck you to anybody fast-forwarded. I pay my mortgage because of Thirsty Vaquero. I sit here, do this, I watch every pitch because of Thirsty Vaquero. I'm not gonna get into the this, I do this, this, that, whatever, how hard I work, how much this means to me. I'm just telling you guys this. I love this show. I love the people that do this show. I love, I love everything about the community we have. I think it is being scaled at the appropriate size. I think that the content and the conversations that we have, I think the relationships that we have on Twitter and just the weirdos we've brought together in these outsiders throughout the last couple of years, are it means more to me than I can find the words to say, and all I've ever done for my entire life is search for the right words to say. Ever. So, like, here's something that means a lot to me where you where where historically I should have the right words to say, and I don't have them, guys. The reason I don't have them is because I'm overwhelmed with emotion about the fact that we get to sit here and chop it up and talk ball. And the reason we get to chop it up and talk ball is because of Thirsty McCarrow. So, like, before I even tell you profiles and all the stuff, taste, flavors, give it to your mother-in-law and stuff. Like, if you like the Cubs, may I interest you in a beverage that allows a Cubs parallel content fucking vertical to exist? Without it, I'll guarantee you there's no show. And if we want to play a game, I'll I won't cut the show. I'll go a month. Let's go a month, let's just take September off and just show up in the playoffs and just start talking about what's going on in the playoffs, which is what other sports podcasts in Chicago are gonna do. They're gonna not pay attention to the Chicago Cubs for the entire fucking season, and then they're gonna show up in October and they're gonna fucking put on the hat and be like, just see, we're gonna live stream the fucking game today, all right? So, like, we're not going down this path, and I'm not arguing about against what other people decide is is good content for people who care about the Cubs. I I I'm in no position to make that uh uh argument or conversation. The only thing I can ask you guys is if you if you find value in the next 40 minutes, I mean I don't even know why at ballpark, how long this is gonna go, who fucking knows? You know, got 28 with Brian Smith. If you value these types of conversations, then you're gonna be a good person. You're gonna go to Thirsty Vacaro on Amazon, you're gonna get a fucking sampler platter, and you're gonna check it out, and you're gonna check it out because the cost of a Thirsty Vacaro sampler bladder far exceeds the amount of time I've put into this. That's it. I'm at I'm not we're not going down the path. I know so many of you listen to this. I'm hesitant to be in the realm of baseball. We use this term differently, largely as a term of endearment. But the word I would say is don't make me be a cocksucker. Don't make don't make me be a Pete Rose. Don't make me be a guy where you go, this guy, here we go, this guy. Because I'll turn into that guy if I see the thirsty Bucero sales dip. So uh, this is a big Monday morning cub show. I want to thank everybody for tuning in. I want to thank everybody. Now you may have heard that in have your brain, you could be somewhere else. You could be doing work, you're in Excel, you're driving to work, um, you know, your white spit you're at you, change the diaper or whatever. So I'll go slow and I'll I'll say it more intentionally because I understand so you're busy. We're all busy. So, like, first thank you for tuning in and giving a shit about the Chicago Cubs. Um you know, and then obviously the second thing is just literally thank you. Right, obviously it's like first, like thank you, appreciate it. Second thing is like, no, I actually meant the first thing. I actually really want to hammer home that first thing. That's the second thing. Second thing is that the first thing is more important to me than I could have I could ever explain to you guys. And I was like teeing this up, I'm writing the outline, I'm like, maybe I should I'll say this for the end after we do the SEN interview, and I'll cut to the time I was at the collectible. I'm gonna say that because there's a bigger story at play about me being back frog in the throat, obviously a sign of this mattering to me and this being an emotional thing. That's why I get frogs in the throat. I just had one. There's a real-time moment for you and me right now. You're listening to this, I'm recording this. We just had a real-time moment there where I got nervous, and the reason I got nervous is because this game this matters to me, and publicly talking about um how much it matters to me makes me uncomfortable enough to get a frog in my throat. Right? So, whoever you are, just apply that to yourself. You've been in a situation, you've walked into a meeting, you've been on a date, you've been somewhere, and you haven't necessarily been yourself, or you have felt different, or you have felt, mmm, mmm. And so that that feeling just crept into me just purely from the standpoint of me addressing, like that's how just generally uh you know sensitive the walls are that uh that are that protect the Monday morning club show. And outsiders, fuck you. Go listen to something else, go put on your Cubs hat in October. I don't give a flying fuck what you think. I have zero respect for your opinion, and you spend zero fucking time making that opinion. And your shows are all over the place. You want me to name names? I'll name them. If you're a Chicago sports fan, they're lit, just just fucking just turn on your phone in the morning, just plug in the AM radio, and you'll hear nothing but fucking bullshit. Right? So, what did we get on the Monday morning cub show this year? Can we just circle up real quick? Trade deadline, what'd we get? We got a team who is good enough to win the World Series when they played terribly for a 29-game stretch. We hammered them for not living up to the expectations of the payroll, of the experience, etc. We hammered those fucking guys. Then they come out and what do they do? Bounce back tremendously. First 27 games elite, next 27 games brutal, next 27 games elite. Which team do you want to pick? Well, I make it very easy for people who are confused about the Chicago Cubs. We could play, likely, if playoffs started tomorrow, a three-game series. Who would we play? I don't know, fucking Phillies or Padres, whatever. One of those teams who's good, who spends a lot of money. Phillies, Padres, Braves, Unit. We're playing somebody. We're playing somebody, and that should matter. It should. This is the shitty part of the show. Right. Take a bunch of guys who are in their 20s and early 30s, and I just go rewind, dude. We're playing somebody from 1945 to 1984. Okay, so from the time we occupied islands in the fucking Pacific Theater during World War II. Like your grandpa or your great grandpa was stationed somewhere. And then he came home. What

Perspective On Cubs History And Patience

SPEAKER_00 18:55

was he? He was in supplies, he was in, you know, whatever. He was in the fucking army. He was on one of the boats outside of Ewe. I don't know what your grandpa was doing. Everybody's got a story from that time. Right? Like, like at least most of my peers, some of the younger guys, maybe not. Maybe then maybe your grandpa's got a story from Vietnam or Korea or something. You know, I'm of an age and generation where grandpas and just old guys have remarkably fucked up stories. Remarkably fucked up stories. You know, a bad day for you is like, no, the sales, the zoom didn't go well. You know, and like a bad day for that generation was like 30 of my friends died, you know, in like a fucking in a battle, in a comic com in a com a plane hit the hit the destroyer, and and 30 guys I trim died. You know, your grandpa's while he's living with that. You're hanging out with him at Christmas, he's distant, he's cold, you know, he's like not that warm and friendly. It's like, what's the what's fucking wrong with grandpa's grandpa's seen a lot of heavy shit in his entire life? Right? He's a kid, he graduates high school, you're enlisted, now whatever. And in that experience spans uh from like 1941. There's obviously gaps there in between Korea and Vietnam, but not to get in this ain't a fucking United States military podcast at all. I what I want to go back to is the Cubs playoff drought in our positioning right now after a successful trade deadline, and I'm pointing back to probably who I would expect the audience would say the most respected people you know in your own personal life. Right? If you if someone said, Carl, make a list, almost called myself Mike there. Carl, make a list, dude, of the toughest guys you know and have ever met in your entire life, or make a list of the guys who've seen the most shit. Like, am I alone that both my both of my grandfathers saw combat? And like this with this where Friday shows get weird, because like we're not talking about the Cubs at all. I'm specifically talking about us making the playoffs, and I'm asking you guys in the audience to think about the men behind the men who raised you or your your family establishment. And I'm what I'm trying to say is there's an entire generation of us, us, you and me, millennials, whatever the fucking generation after us is, younger guys. Where in history, if you just take us and you put us in a different timeline, our relationship with our baseball team is wildly different, right? So you're eight, you come home from wherever you are, you're on the beaches of picket. You want to be in Iwo Jima, you want to be on D Day, you you know, you want to be. Making your way through the Arden's forest, you know, you are you more comfortable bombing fucking Tokyo? Like that's up to you. I'm just asking you to put yourself in that headspace and then you come out. You've just been in combat. You had literally just w just wrapped the United States in total warfare. And then you come home and you go, I all I want to do is listen to the ball game. All I want to do is put on just put on WGN. Now 1955-ish, they're going to start broadcasting the games generally on TV. You're going to be able to watch them. But it's it's late 40s here, guys. We just have a radio. You just plug it in the corner and you're listening to the radio. And you're listening to the ballgame. And I'm going to tell you right now, from 1946 until until 19, until Ryan Samberg uh establishes himself as one of the best players in the National League across the board, right? Like the Tawny Gwynn's killing it. Tawny Gwynn or Ryan Sandberg. That's an argument. That's an argument. Ryan Samberg wins that argument, right? 1984. Wins it. MVP. There's an entire stretch where people lived, watched the Cubs, and just fucking died without even having the chance to wherever you and I are right now to go, what can we do in the playoffs? Are we good enough in the playoffs? Do we give up too much? What's our four? There are men, and that's this is way too long-winded. Way too long-winded. But I'm trying to capture something that means a lot to me as a baseball fan and means a lot to me as I interact with the Cubs. It's like it is so much better now in our lifetime than historically it has ever been if you were if you were born after 1940. So unless you're fucking 86 years old, who I appreciate, thank you for showing for the Monday Morning Cubs show. God bless you. And I and I and I hope your entire descendant family shows up to your waking funeral. And I hope it happened like natural causes. I hope you get a good fucking, you know. I I hope you get a good exit. Now, this is a long-winded circle to what I was saying before we got in the ad read. I'll I'll I'll touch on that. I want to I want to hone in more specifically on the attitude we have about where we're headed. You know, this is a Friday show, this is a weirder show. We're gonna do Ball Strike Monday with Mahoney, we're gonna get into it. Just generally speaking, though, we're just rallying the troops. We have a 10-week stretch in front of us. 10 weeks into the playoffs. Ten weeks from now, Bears are gonna be at home. Cubs got a playoff game. What are the White Sox doing? Did you hear about the Blackhawks training camp? The sports news is gonna be sensational. Whatever college team you follow, obviously I'm an Illinois guy. You know, the Notre Dame guys are gonna be, they got a little bit more pep in their step that time. Everybody is got a little bit more pep in their step 10 weeks from now. And right now, what we're doing is just grooming the mindset modely, right? So you're going to work, you're getting ready for a big fucking day. You know, we just play this weird game against the Blue Jays. There's just we're we're materializing the moves that have been made at the trade deadline. We are realizing in real time what we have, making that fucking list of who belongs, who doesn't, how are we going to shuffle this thing around? Guys who got questions about is Pedro Mirrors a legit lefty bat we can count on against high quality righty starters in the playoffs? That's a question. That's very much a question you should be asking yourself if you watch this team 162, right? Another question you guys should be asking is is Jefferson Rojas gonna make us regret the Clay Holmes and Tyrone Taylor deal, right? Because a lot of you guys are very quick to go back and say we wouldn't need Tyrone Taylor if Ian Hap, right? Just go right back to Ian Hap. We gave up more to get a fourth outfielder and a hurt starting pitcher. Last year we traded for a hurt starting pitcher. Then he didn't pitch at all because he was. That's right, you got it. He was hurt. Amazing job filling in that blank. He was hurt. So so retreading that same kind of PTSD, we're gonna, which is actually a shitty reference after I just did a heavy World War II thing where I'm asking you to think about your grandpa. But honestly, though, like let's go back there for a second. Like, some of you guys listen to us and we'll have a beer and regularly, you'll see we'll talk if you if you if any of this resonates with you, like I'm your guy. And my point is the guys behind the guys that raise us saw fucking cop just went through heavy, the heaviest shit that anybody could go. That's why they're called the greatest generation, and then they came back from the heaviest shit of all time. And imagine just being a Cubs fan. Imagine just be imagine just being on Iwo Jima right now, like fucking Ted Williams is flying the planes over above. I mean, not really, but he's no, he's combat. He's combat pilot. No, I'm just saying, like, think about you're out, you're there, you're stationed. The fucking the Japanese are like, they won't surrender, and all you want to do is go home and watch a ballgame. That's what you miss. You miss going regular field, you miss hanging out with the boys. Once we just clear this regiment out, once we just kill the next 300 fucking uh opposing soldiers, I'll go back to this, I'll go back, I'll go listen to the radio. That there are men in my life, your life, our people listening to our lives, who firsthand experiences. Then when they came home to watch that ball game, they fucking miss the playoffs for 39 years. Like your buddy is like, I'm why am I laughing? This is heavy shit, hypothetical. Like, you you're lit, you're resuscitating. That's a word. I'm laughing because the the word usage here is just obnoxious for a Monday morning cup show. And we are gonna get to Brian Smith, who is the foremost expert on Cigar Drugs. But like you're on the beach of Imo Jima, and you're risk you're like resuscitating a friend who's dying in real time, and he's look his gasping last breaths are like get the season tickets. What his last what is he last saying? Hack will Hack Wilson. I wish Hack Wilson was a bust. What's his last breath? Whatever he said, you are leaving that island and you're going, I have to go watch the Cubs. It's my best it's my best friends. We saw combat together. It was his dying wish. I held him in my arms. I watched him take his last breath. The last words he said to me were, Go Cubs. And then they missed the buttons for 39 fucking years in a row. Yeah, you better believe we're in a mindset here as a Cubs fan, as a Cubs fan who appreciates the history and the people who've come before us. You better fucking believe coming off this trade deadline, folks, that we are rolling, that we have energy, that we're excited, that we have something to look forward to that isn't go fight on the beaches of Iwo Jima and then come back and miss the black after 39 years. Now, I'm not even trying to connect that in some sort of like very directly correlated way, as much as I'm just speaking generally about the guys that bitch and moan, and you know who you are. Some of you motherfuckers are here right now. So go stand over there. You're go stand on that side of the room. Everybody else go stand on the other side of the room. You know who you are, you know where to stand. You know who you are. Don't make me make it any more personal than it is. The guys on the side of the room that are going, fuck this team, they don't have it, they're dead, they don't have the medal, they're not good enough. You can kiss my ass. You can kiss my motherfucking ass up and down Michigan Avenue, my friends. And and any concept of am I being too mean? Did I say

Defending The Deadline Moves

SPEAKER_00 30:20

something you don't like? You can kiss my ass again, you kiss my ass whole. The whole thing. Get in there, buddy. Get a spoon, eat it up. Because I I have no patience or tolerance for any of this stuff, dude. I have none. And the way people interact with this organization, this team, I thought the trade deadline was sensational. You know, I make a joke on Twitter about Zavirishon for Mo Baller. People misinterpret this. Now all of a sudden I hate the trade deadline. I love the trade deadline. I love it. 6'5, 230 from Kansas, Zavirishon, big sweeper. Like, unless Moises Ballesteros can go into the bullpen and strike people out in October. I'm not like I care about October. Does that make sense? Not in a Yankee fan sense. Not in a if we don't win, it's all it's all bullshit. It never mattered, anyways, if we don't win. No, it all matters. It all matters. It all made it all mattered. It all mattered at the very it mattered before the season started. It mattered in December. It mattered in November. It mattered the second the last I was made on the 2025 season. Then it started to matter. So don't don't be sitting here pointing out and going to Argus and going, well, once the season gets, we're just still we can catch. It started fucking months ago. And maybe it doesn't resonate with you, or maybe there's people in your life that now all of a sudden they're gonna start to care, whatever. That's fine. My request for you guys if you're a maniac, but you're a 162er, just let those bad guys be. Don't you don't need to be talking shit to people. You don't need to rub it in people's face that they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. You know, you get on a group chat, you're in your body, you're playing 16-inch softball, and somebody's over here talking about credit counselors and other head from their ass or whatever. You know, just let the morons be the morons, is my best advice. And then at the end of the day, you know, with enough time, people will go back and they'll go, those guys were stupid. That's stupid. That was stupid. That was stupid and in a in a dumb position to take. But for your own personal whatever the fuck it is that makes you be that way. To say, we're not gonna this sucks. I don't like Chad. We didn't get the right guy. I'll tell you this trade deadline's over. Ched went out and got Kevin Gossman and Clay Holmes. Those were the guys he picked. That's it. We had more than the Dodgers gave up for Terrix Google. We had it. We could have done that. Jed goes, no, I want Gossman, I want Clay Holmes. That's Ched's decision. Now, if if a single person listening to the show comes back and whenever it is, whenever the season ends, which in my estimation will be the last scheduled day of the fucking year. It will be game seven of the World Series with the Chicago Cubs winning it and a parade down Michigan Avenue. A gun to my head, fine, whatever. But it's not October. Right now, it's actually early August. And actually, Terry Scobo went to Wrigley Field and he and he pitched at Wrigley Field against the Cubs. And he got his fucking ass kicked in by Javier Assad. Alright, so we gotta go get Terra Scobo. Well, we didn't give it up. The Dodgers gave up, the Dodgers did this, the Dodgers did this, the Dodgers did this. Get the Dodgers dick out of your fucking mouth. Alright? I I don't know. I have to be clear about this statement. Get the Dodgers dick out of your mouth. The fact I live in a world where I look at Pierce and I go, You were there in 96, you were there in 98, 99, 2000. The Yankees won four of five. They would have won five of six if Mariana Rivera, the greatest postseason pitcher ever, gets a gets one scoreless inning. The Yankees go, we won five of six world championships. And every year, as an outside Yankees fan, the guy who likes baseball, it was so much fun to cheer against the Yankees. I have no loyalty to the Diamondbacks. The 2001 Diamondbacks that beat the New York Yankees in game seven. I know every player in that lineup up and down, I could tell you all about their careers. It was one of the all-time great series, one of all-time great moments as a baseball fan, cheering for quote unquote underdogs, heavily steroid, Luis Gonzalez, Kurt Chilling, Ray Johnson, etc. But in that moment, everybody loved the Dynamax. Like, like it was like us versus the Dimebacks. And it was embraced across baseball. The fact that Dodgers are a wonderful organization that, like, yeah, the multimillionaires, do they want to go live in Los Angeles? I hate Kyle Tuckers. I don't hate Kyle Tuckers, you got 60 million a year from the Dodgers. I don't take all the money you can get from anybody who's gonna pay it to you, folks. Let me repeat this: take all the money you can get. Everybody listening to this, you're driving to work, you're coming home from work, your fucking wife is texting you, you want to take that girl out to a nice date. You're going, Bah, I could take her somewhere nice. She'd like me, Marvin took her somewhere nice. I could do something nicer. Yeah, you're are you a guy? Yeah, so is everybody playing Major League Baseball. You know what they want? As much money as possible. Hey, uh, Joe, would you mind fucking doing this income statement in Excel? Build it from scratch. Yeah, sure. How much you can pay me? I'm gonna pay you 57 grand a year. Cool. Hey, Joe, would you mind building the exact same income statement in Excel? Sure. Absolutely. What's in it for me? We're gonna put you in LA, which is I mean widely considered uh one of the greatest places on earth for a human being to spend their existence. Like, I'm not talking about taxes and politics and the socioeconomics of them, just functionally talking about get up, sun rises on the east, sets in the fucking west. You're in LA, pal. I mean that's it. That's it. If if you have to if you have to raise the infrastructure from all metropolitan areas across the United States, and you said start from fucking scratch and pick where you're gonna put the first metropolis, I'll absolutely guarantee you the place is going exactly where Los Angeles is right now. That that's not even is it Chicago born and bred guy who loves the fucking Illinois River and the way that we were able to connect that canal to the fucking Mississippi and bring that bitch down to the Gulf so we could ship that stuff up to St. Lawrence. God bless those motherfuckers. I will tell you right now, we start from scratch, we just send Daniel Boone out to the United States. Just go get a taste, Danny. Go tell me where you want to put the first metropolis. There's no DC, there's no New York. He's gonna pick LA. If Daniel Boone is picking LA, why am I gonna get mad at Kyle Tucker for taking $60 million to go to LA? That's where I'm at, my head. I don't fucking take 60, take 70, take 80. Whatever they're gonna pay you. I'm not gonna sit here and put a finger at the Dodgers and go, you're a shitty organization, you're ruining baseball. When a guy like Bob Nutting, who owns the Pirates, who's a West Virginia newspaper fucking guy, right? Who owns the Dodgers? The finance guy from London, the American genius, brilliant East Coast, Virginia-raised, perfectly born and bred American, goes to the London School of Economics, gets trained in how to trade the fucking dollar, folks, in the early 90s, is so good at trading the dollar. Now, if you don't know what that means, that means how much is the dollar worth? How much fucking yen can you buy? How many pesos is that worth? Now that stuff changes, right? The guy who owns the dollar, uh, Dodgers knows more about the American dollar than anybody who's like lived in the last 50 fucking years. I I can't even I have to calm myself down because I realize I'm getting passionate about something that is so utterly insignificant. But the gap between the public's view of the Dodgers and then like the reality of why they're good is so profoundly large that I am compelled to close it. I'm compelled to close it right now and say, the guy who who did all of the stuff with the Dodgers that puts you in a position right now to bitch about the fact that they traded for Terek Scuble, which which is so comprehensively unrelated to their revenue mechanisms, but we'll entertain it because I know a lot of people want to entertain it. So sure, fine, fuck it. Dodgers have all the money in the world, they can trade for Terek Scuble, even though those two things are unrelated, they've all the money in the world. So they traded for Terek Scubel. Like you said that, you're an idiot. You're a fucking moron. They traded for Tarek Scuble because they are extremely comfortable giving up their high-end shit. Like they the Cubs gave like a their number two marginally top hunter prospect, Jefferson Rojas's. We're gonna get to with Brian Smith and we're gonna break down the prospect stuff capital. I'm doing a horrible job this show, to be honest with you. I am, and that that's probably because I'm doing this after I had the conversation with Brian, which is sensational, which I'm not I'm not promoting. I already fucking buried myself three and a half minutes on the show. I'll bury myself again. I suck at this. I am so bad at organizing the flow. Like it's actually reprehensible. Okay, so if you're still here with me, I mean honestly, I'll I'd bury a dead body if for you on your behalf. That's where I'm coming from. And I have a story from the fucking thirst of cure I had read. I haven't even told you that might be honestly the most important part of this entire show. That has nothing to do with the beverage. So where are we at mentally? You bitch about Trick School, you're dead to me. Javier Assad shoved it up his ass down his fucking throat. I don't need like I care about game one of the world, game one of the world series, game one of the NLCS, game one of the NLD, I care about game one and game two. Now at present we have a guy who can pitch game one, and and technically, if Clay Holmes comes back healthy, we have a guy who can pitch game two.

PCA Defense And Baseball Lifers

SPEAKER_00 40:50

And go pitch for pitch, if healthy. If healthy, so would you give up? That's what we're gonna talk about to Brian Smith about in a little bit. Jefferson Rojas. And you guys will have to excuse me, I'm I the production's on this end. Like I'll download the file, I'll cut it, I'll fucking snip it into this one. Uh and that's not a complaining thing at all. If you ever get the sense I'm complaining about workflows, that that's on me then, because I'm misrepresenting my my feeling. What I'm trying to represent here is I may be long-winded because I know I'm sitting on the back end of a 30, 25, 30-minute, just unbelievable conversation from one of the foremost experts on Chicago Cubs prospects. You know, so then I make a list of the shit I want to get off my chest before I get to the interview, but then I just sit here and talk about Iwo Jima. And I talk about your grandfather. Like, what am I doing here? This is not a nostalgic podcast. This is a Chicago Cubs podcast. That that that that's really it. So, um, you know, if I triggered anything for anybody there, you know, getting into some of the heavy stuff combat related, um, obviously that's not you know necessarily where I'm trying to take it. I'm just trying to get you to think about in the history of our existence of of consciously socialized humanity. How about that? How far back does that go? Somebody take a guess. You want to take a guess? I'll take a guess. You take a guess. How far back does socialized humanity go? Experts, anthropologists say it's about 50,000 years, where the way you and I can sit and have a cup of coffee and bullshit and laugh and interact with each other, and we can do that socially, and then we can set goals, you know, like how do we want to go gather food today? Do we want to hunt? You know, and like how are your kids doing? That level of communication, according to anthropologists, between human beings, where we're functionally, you know, this like cohesive species, I think goes back 50,000 years. It's like 40, like somebody smarter than me will will clear this up. Now, obviously, in modern times, through religious doctrine, many people would say 2,000 years, 2,500, wherever you fucking line up on that spectrum. I'm not, I know I did the Iwo Chim, I'm not trying to get personal about this. Too personal, what I'm saying, is going back up to 30,000 feet from this ridiculous, ridiculous analogy I'm floating out here. If you guys just come up to 30,000 feet, and then if you join me and we look down, we're on the top of the stage, we just look down on all of the shit that has come before us as Cubs fans. It makes it almost impossible here for me to sit here and say anything other than effusive praise towards a 2016. The way they came. Out and played, they faced adversity. Every team does. They got it, they got it through May. We battled in June. Peter Armstrong and said, I have you guys. I'm gonna put you on my back. I'm gonna carry you motherfuckers. Right? But we're sitting here going, I don't know how the brew, how do the brewers do it? Who's this Mizorowski guy? Pip Murphy must be. They're on steroids, they're doing something special up there. Peter Armstrong's like, I don't even know if Babe Ruth is real. I'm gonna go out here and get on base at a fucking 500 clip. Like Joey Votto, who hit for power OBP level. It's like like last year to this year, one year ago, you go, Peter Armstrong is is gonna have Joey Votto plate discipline. I would tell you you created a parallel universe. Your name is Doctor Strange, and I am not a real human being. None of this is existing. What the fuck did you just create? What are you talking about? What do you mean, Pete Crow Armstrong? OBP trends higher than Joey Votto. Joey Votto gets on base. Joey Vado's on base already. Just put him on bass. Joey Vato gets in the box, put him on base. Did you watch him play? Did anybody listening to this watch Joey Vato play ever? Joey Vado gets in the box, gets on first base. That's just fucking it. Now, are you telling me the most athletic player in Major League Baseball who is uncontestedly the best defensive player to play in Major League Baseball since Andrelton Simmons? Did I butcher that fucking Netherlands name enough? And Drelton Simmons. That's that it's it's it's Kevin Kiermeyer, it's Andrelton Simmons, it's that's the generation, guys. So in the older generation, the guy's at Iwo Jima, sorry, I'm trying to be too casual about that reference, but I'm just going back to older generations of baseball fans that lived and watched fucking miserable Cubs baseball. That's the Brooks Robinson. That's the Mark Belanger, who many of you listening don't know. Encourage you to look up Mark Belanger 70s shortstop Orioles. Never carry an OPS over 100, finish with a career be war over 44. Let me repeat this. A guy that played his entire life in Major League Baseball. Every day. Every day. And these are the lit, this is the little this is the sauce to the Monday Morning Cup show. Because now you're empowered with this information. You get to go look up Mark. How lucky are you to encounter the information of Mark Belanger for the first time? Who is the shortstop for Earl Weaver's Orioles in the 70s? Was hitting under 200. Based Earl Weaver at the All-Star. Break. We just finished up the All-Star. We just come out of this. So this ain't too far away here. If you think about the the timeline of a baseball season, they said, Earl, what are you going to do with Mark? He's hitting under 200. You know, he's it got no power, he's got no RBIs this year, whatever the questions they were asking the 70s. You know, we'd we'd like to see him hit more home runs, whatever they say in the 70s, however they say it. And Earl Weaver, I mean, I go one John McGraw to Earl Weaver in in my rankings of people who influenced the game off the field. It's not even close. One John McGraw now, John McGraw, arguably, you know, he's in the Hall of Fame, he's in the Hall of Fame as a manager, he's in the Hall of Fame as a player at the Baltimore Orioles in the 1890s. You know, a lot of people are gonna say he's obviously in the Hall of Fame because of his work with the Giants during the early 20th century. But it's also the guy who invented the sacrifice button, the Baltimore Chop, and the guy and the guy who taught the third baseman to play in, and the guy who pinched the you know, pinched the middle infield for a double play. Like this guy basically built the entire science in which you you in which you play baseball. And now I'm just off to the fucking races talking about stuff here, guys. You know, this is this is how the Monday morning cub show goes. You know, because it's like I'm sitting here telling a story and now I'm gonna talk about Mark Ballanger. Now Mark Belanger makes me talk about Earl Weaver. Now I'm talking about Earl Weaver, now I gotta talk about fucking John McGraw. Now I gotta talk about John McGraw. No, you know what? Why don't we just turn it back? Why don't we just turn it back to 1890? And this is this is sincerely, if you're this far in the show, this is why I do it on Mondays with Mahoney. The Monday show has to be a show, has to be a show, has to be a little ball strike pitch clock. What do you got here? Has to have a dynamic, it has to be a place people go to on Mondays. Mondays fucking blow. Mondays are the worst. Fucked. I hate Mondays. I hate Mondays more than anybody listening to show. I'll guarantee there's nobody listening to the show who hates a Monday more than me. Maybe you hate as much, but more. And so the genesis of Monday morning come show was me and Mahoney going, well, fucking, if we're gonna follow something, we'd want it there the day we hate the most. We hate Mondays. Then it's there for you on Mondays. So we're gonna work backwards from Mondays. So now what happens is we do the show on Mondays. Then I'm sitting here on Mondays and I'm going, there's a lot of shit I probably should have said earlier in the week. Now we end up on a Friday show. Now you end up on a Friday show. Now you're making a point here, and and the point I want to make is about the quality of the defense Pete Carl Armstrong brings to the table. Right? But but for whatever reason, I get sucked into Kevin Kiermeyer. And now I start talking about Kevin Kiermeyer. We're gonna end Ralton Simmons, who has been told to me, here's a fun little Joe Madden story. I was playing golf with this now. I sound like a real cocksucker. I was playing golf with Joe Madden. Everybody, well, that's crazy. Whatever. Fuck it. I'm in a room with Joe. I talked to Joe. How about this? I meet Joe. Hey, I saw Joe on the street. Whatever. Who gives a fuck? I get a moment with Joe. I'm talking to Joe. It's me and Joe Madden. No, I said, hey, Andrew Elton Simmons, I'm just curious, is is he that much better than Jose Glacius or is Jose Glaci? Now the reason you asked that question is because those are the two best defenders of their generation at the premium position of the sport I love most. So like if you're a shortstop and you're a major league shortstop, you have my interest. Right. So how do you get to play that position? What makes you what makes you unique? It's it's the hardest position to fill in sports uh outside NFL quarterback. NFL quarterback one, MLB shortstop two. Good luck. Go look, find your franchise. And I could even argue finding your franchise shortstop is significantly harder than a franchise quarterback because you can just fucking blow in the NFL, get get a pig, take a quarterback. Like you can't just take a shortstop in the MLB. You gotta groom them, you gotta coach them, you gotta develop them, you gotta make you gotta make them want it. You know what I'm saying? So this is me in a room with Joe. I'm saying Joe and Dalton Simmons. Joe, Joe, Joe admonishes me for comparing Andralton Simmons to Jose Glacius and then proceeds to tell me that it's unfair for me to even bring up Andralton Simmons if I'm not gonna say names like Brooks Brooks Robinson and Mark Belanger. Now I will give credit to my father because when Joe Mannon said that to me, I go, Mark Belanger is awesome. 1971, all's the fucking hit 188. I I was so prepared with information that my dad had installed in me that Joe Mann's sitting there going, You know your shit. I'm going, Yeah, I do. Now I'm going, Joe, that's because my dad. And now I find myself here doing a solo show, Monday morning cub show, just talking about Pete Crow Armstrong's impact defensively, and I'm and I'm sucked

Joe Maddon Story And Greatness

SPEAKER_00 51:40

into this moment where I'm going, real baseball people, like like, and I'm not saying real baseball because you watch a you have a marquee subscription, because you follow it. I'm saying, I'm saying guys that are gonna sacrifice, right? If you're if you're a baseball minor league coach, you could be successful at insurance. You go fucking sell some stuff or make a decent living, you know, make a couple hundred grand, dude. You have the skills. If you can work in major league baseball and in coach or lead, and you're part of that just the system, the beast that runs every day. Light goes on, fucking flip the switch at 6 a.m. The lights are on, the balls are out, hitting fungos, and that whole mechanism of running a professional organization, you can have success doing fucking anything. Uh I'm trying to think of like stuff I've encountered in my life that's that's more timely structured and demanding than a baseball itinerary. A baseball itinerary is scheduled down to like three minutes. It'll I mean you go look, go someone go to the Philly. I don't know why I'm saying the Philly's athlete cup, spring training. Go pull one of the fucking itineraries off the wall next time somebody's not looking the duck out. It'll say 9 to 903 stretch, 903 to 906, oatmeal, you know, fucking you know, it's it's in increments of three minutes. These people are unbelievably precise at the operational level. I'm not talking about front office, I'm talking about the guys that are on the field hitting the fungos, telling the guys to huddle up or into this, outfielders over here, pitchers over here. And and the amount of focus and love that has to go into that, and and the and the guys that organize and administer and run that shit could be doing a thousand fucking things right now. They'd be sitting here hosting a Monday morning cup show, talking about a trade-in line. You know, they they choose to live their lives through the game of baseball, and that means a tremendous amount of sacrifice, stuff you absolutely take for granted, stuff I probably take for granted too. So I'm with you. You know, I'm a I'm an arrogant fuck with you. We're arrogant, you and I are arrogant. The fuck heads you take names for granted, and then the baseball lifer, the minor league guy, the developer, the guy who the guy who will never get a fucking lick of credit for the fact that PCA went from being bottom 5% to top 5% in chase. In a year, there's a guy out there who worked with Pete, who talked to Pete, who cued Pete's brain into identifying better decisions. That guy won't be the liquor credit. And he gave his in he'll he'll end up giving his entire he'll give up his entire life in the pursuit of participation in professional baseball. You wanna go see the Grand Canyon? I can't. I'm gonna be in Casper, Wyoming, coaching a 19-year-old how to properly catch fly balls. Can you come to can dad can you come to can you come to graduation? Yeah, I would love to come to your high school graduation, honey, but uh there's a Dominican in South Florida who uh, you know, the word is out. And the athletics, which is a team I work for, uh in this hypothetical, is asking me to go with the scout guy, they'll never sign. So I will miss your high school graduation. I will I will instead I will be in Fort Lauderdale watching a showcase. Now, these people exist everywhere within the baseball industry, and it's it's it's so easy. Monty ball made it so easy to shit on these guys. Like, what the fuck do you know you're talking about? You know, looking at numbers. With these guys literally given their entire fucking lives to this game. You want to talk about we're on the outline, we're indented, we're so far indented on the outline, uh, the outline doesn't exist anymore. But my point is people have sat in their entire lives. We'll just go watch amateur baseball players and then write reports on them and then say maybe one day he'll turn into this and this. Maybe one day, and now we can I give him this the Wade Boggs story, you know, because I'll go see Wade Boxes, would not spend money on Wade Box who went to the same high school as Kyle Tucker, you know, obviously fuck Kyle Tucker. Did a scouts go watch Wade Box, they go, I don't like Wade Box. People dedicate their lives so that one day they could be wrong about Wade Box. I have to I have to I have to slow down and capture this appropriately because again, people are driving, going to work, cup of coffee, what are you doing, having a cigarette? Whatever. You're getting ready for a good day, you're in the middle of a good day. I just have a good day. And when you have a bad day, I want you to remember there's the guys in the history of the sport who are paid to go watch Wade, you know, like Wade Boggs or PCA or wherever you want to take this tangent I'm on, and and and they go, not good enough. Wade Boggs, not good enough, and then people turn around and go, That guy sucked, that scout sucks, the process sucks, they all suck. And what ultimately I'm trying to get to is it's it's a matter that it's a matter of taste, guys. It's a matter of personal opinion, and it's a matter of taste. And as I wind this whole entire thing back to the Joe Madden and Dalton Simmons and the Jose Iglesias and all that bullshit, you you're out of your mind, right? You're out of your mind if you think somebody belongs in the same conversation as in Dalton Simmons. You know, Joe looks like he goes, You're talking about a Belanger. You're talking about Bruce Robinson. You know, the way Joe says, you're talking about Bruce Robinson. You know, very emphatic, very performative delivery from Joe. You cannot talk about it in Delton unless you're willing to talk about him in this capacity. And so that's that's firsthand. I'm hosting this show. I'll fucking say what I want. That's first hand feedback from the only guy to lead the Chicago Cubs to a World Series championship in the last 118 years. First hand feedback about how to view a player defensively, about how to say you cannot be telling me somebody's a good defender as long as then Dalton Simmons walks this earth. And as long as that dude walks this earth, then you get to compare him to Brooks Robinson. And if we can make that connection, then we can both agree that not a single fucking person between him and then should be mentioned in the conversation other than Mark Blander. So that's how defensively. All right. Now, if we have this conversation, boom, PCA on top. Bo, right there, right there. Could not have spent 18 minutes trying to make my point any fucking harder. And gave you a little baseball history along the way. There's a reason the Orioles are significant. I encourage you to check out their run mid-60s, early 80s. All-time great run, right in line with that grateful dad stretch, if you're one of those guys, which is not important. The point I'm trying to say is obviously I'm passionate about this game. Obviously, I'm passionate about this team, and it man matters a lot to me. And that's the the fuel and the fire. That's the engine that that runs the Monday morning cub show, it gets Mahoney in here, and ultimately that allows me one hour into this show to say, I'll have to cut it to Brian Smith. You know, I don't, I don't ever, I mean, like ever, bend the knee when it comes to talking about the Cubs. And I got ridiculous stories. I have been in uh I have been I've been in situations where I've been called out by Theo Epstein for being a creep. You're a creep with our prospects. In in a room of people, you're the creep about our prospects, right? Like I'm when I say I know a lot, I go, I know a lot. You know what I mean? Like I'm bad guy. Hey, Game of Thrones. I'm fucking I'm the house, I'm a house. I'm a big guy, I'm a house, I'm the cub's house. Get off my lamp. Or what do they say in that show? My dragon's gonna burn your house down. I I don't have a dragon. I'm not a dragon guy, I'm not a fire breather. What I'm saying is, or I'm not I'm not I'm not a dragon lord. Okay? I'm not a dragon lord. What I am is this I am a house that when you raise that fucking banner, I'm answering the call. Do you understand what I'm saying? I'm I'm not here to play politics. You know, I'm here to talk ball, I'm here to talk baseball. I don't the ins and outs of all the social dynamics that exist outside this game. Don't give a fuck. I'm on the wall. Mahoney and I are gonna talk about this on Monday. I'm Night's Watch. I'm the I'm the first guy you encounter in that battle, and I'm the last man standing. And I'll take everybody with me. And you're all coming with me if you if you want to have this fight. That's how I feel about this team, right? That's how I feel about the Cubs generally. That's just how I feel about when I come to interacting about knowledge about the game. Because here's where I'll take it, buddy. Here's where I'll take it. I'll take it to Camp Anson. I will take it to 1876. I will go back to the Cincinnati Reds founding professional baseball and acquiring other good, talented players from other local teams in the shit in the shitstorm that created. I'll t I'll take you through the Black Sox scandal if you want to. I can absolutely sit here and go on for hours about Honus Wagner versus Ty Cobb and that dichotomy. I can sit here and look you dead in the fucking face and say there are 10 writers who lived and existed, lived their fucking lives while Babe Ruth shattered every single known record kept ever. There are 10 guys who voted for Ty Cobb and not for Babe Ruth. Did I repeat that? Did you know that when Ted Williams went to the ballot box for his first time in the Hall of Fame, 21 of 500 something right? 20, think of this. There's 500 people in a room, and you're gonna have an argument if Ted Williams is their first ballot Hall of Famer. 500 people's a big room, it's a convention, it's a convention hall, it's a big fucking wedding you don't want to go to. It's a high school graduation at a small school in central Illinois. It's a big deal, 500 people in a room. 20 of them said Babe Ruth shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. So you talk about it. I'll go to that level if that's what I'm trying to say. You want to have that conversation? You know, the fact that Ty Cobb got 15 more votes or 12 more votes on the first ballot than Honus Wagner, who had such moral character, to say, you better take me off the print of the T206, most famous card ever. I don't do tobacco deals. Where Ty Cobb is literally going to the stands and beating people up, and the people who cover the sport at the time. You're telling me 10 more guys who cover that fucking sport are going Ty Cobb over Honus Wag Honus Wagner's not a Hall of Famer, but Ty Cobb is. You know, Honus Wagner's over here fucking walking your kid to school, teaching them, teaching him arithmetic, you know, best

Behind The Scenes Audio Rant

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

interest of mine. Ty Cobb's over Ty Cobb's a racist cunt. And he got more votes. I'll go down any path anybody who's listening to this show wants to do about baseball. You want to talk about sweeper usage, you want to talk about the history, you want to talk about the way Major League Baseball rolled in the fucking Negro Leagues. Like, oh, this all happened for the whole time we pretended these guys didn't even we didn't even pretend they exist. We we we acknowledged their existence and then we we we outright outlawed it. We we didn't just pretend Josh Gibson didn't exist, we acknowledge Josh Gibson exists by virtue of the fact that we by letter of the fucking law of Major League Baseball said he's not allowed to play this game, not our game, that's our game. You go play your game. Now you're gonna come around here 80, 90 years later and go, just kidding. We were all playing the same game the whole time. I'll have that conversation with you. I'll fucking argue with you. You wanna argue with me about it? I'll argue with you. I there is there's nothing. This might be the greatest intro I've ever done to an interview. There's nothing I will not argue about relative to baseball if I hit my feet in the ground. That's why I go back to I am a nice watch. There's nothing that I will not defend if it's within the obligatory duty of my oath to you, to to Cubs to the occupation Little Frog and Throat of doing a fucking good job is what I'm saying. Of being in front of the shit. And I'm entertained. You want to argue with me? Go ahead, buddy. I got it. You want to talk about Rogers Hornsby? Line it up, pal. I'll do the greatest baseball face of all time. That's a name that comes up in the interview today. You know, I have it. And the reason I'm saying that I have it is so that I can take this opportunity and say, in this moment, I don't have it. I'm not the fucking guy with prospects. Brian Smith is. I'm not, I'm not, I'm I'm I at one point, yes. At this point, no. So you're gonna say Jefferson, we lost on the Jefferson Row House trade. I'm gonna say, I fucking ask Brian. You're gonna say Owen Ayers is a great player, that's why we traded Moses by Ceres, and and that's why Jed sees this because we look for I go, ask Brian. Ask Brian. I mean, I I have my opinions, and then there's mom I go, I'll argue with you about Ty Cobb versus Honnest Wagner till I die. I mean, there's there's so many little things within this game I will grasp that I have no business grasping, but they're mine, I'll take it, I'll grasp it, and I'll argue with you about it. You know, could Babe Ruth hit over 260 in today's game? Absolutely, yes, he would be one of the best players in today's game. Without a fucking doubt, how can you out homer and An entire generation of players. And then tell me you don't, you don't, you don't have you don't have the God given ability to hit. Hitters are born. And you don't know that unless you've been on the field with them. You don't know that till you've played with the pudgy guy who can't fucking run to first base, who's got a weak arm and hits four fucking fifty. You don't know that till you've been in that environment and you have witnessed what it means to be a great player, a great hitter. In in ultimately, what it boils down to is a saying I will go back to again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. And and honestly, should I die tragically, let this serve as my last remaining testament and will I want it on the fucking tombstone? Great is born. Best is made. Great is born. I look at this team, I go, we got great, we got tailing up and down the board. It's made, it's born. P Croms aren't born, buddy. It comes out of the womb, motherfuckers running. It's 6'160. But what allows you to be the best? There's greats everywhere. Great's born. It's everywhere. It's all over the place. All you have to do is fucking close your eyes, recharge your arms. There's great right around you. Everywhere there's great. Everywhere. Not so much best. Best is hard to come by. Great and bass. Way bigger gap than great and fucking bad. I'm not talking to the best cubs prospect guy, period. End of story. No easy way to say. That that's the interview we're going on. Deadline. Do we give up too much? Baller strike, how do you feel? So if you've been with me this long, if you sat through Evo Jima commentary, you know, like literally, God bless ya. Uh this is a Monday morning cub show. I'm gonna cut to Brian, and then I'm gonna hard cut the show at the end of it because I don't want to do an outro. So there's just a little behind the scenes thing. And and if we're being honest, there there could be no bigger ball and chain in the content world than producing your own content. It's like I gotta, I gotta, it's like throwing BP to yourself. I'm hitting off a T. You know. But so any you guys should be on YouTube. You guys should be on you should you should cut your fucking grass, pal. It'd be no different than me showing up to your house and going, you should clean your fridge. And you should make your bed, and you should do your laundry. So yeah, it's on the list. It's on the list. I'll get to the we'll get me, yeah. Don't worry, we'll get to the we'll get to it. The most important thing though is that is that we have the cup the conversations exist in the first place. And so I have to go back a couple years because I'm about to cut to Brian, and I don't do interviews. I we don't do interviews on the show because I don't fucking value them. That's a bad F word. You know, that's that's where I could have just said I don't value them. But I I did just use an F word there, and that's something you know. You go back, you watch the tape, you're gonna go, why'd I use that one there? Why did I throw that ball there? Why did I feel that? I felt that. Why? I shouldn't have. Um, you know, stuff Cutler never did. So I'm just I'm shooting I'm just I'm just trying to shoot you guys straight here as I'm is um as I'm I'm taking 30 minutes to introduce a 30-minute interview, you know. I'm just talking about the philosophical, you know, the want, the guys who put their heart in the game, you know, because we're gonna get to this point, Brian, we're talking about the young guys that make up the game. And and the last thing that I have to mention before I get to Brian is that one thing I've learned as I've gotten older as a Cubs fan who makes Cubs content for other Cubs fans, is the way I would describe myself. I am a Cubs fan, and I I do make content, I do do the show, I do do lineup reviews, I I do talk about the team, and I and I do it specifically for Cubs fans. That's that's the genesis. That's that's it. Uh we don't need to get outside of that. I'm not selling the crypto, I'm not trying to partner with FanDuel, I don't need an extra fucking buck here or there. I just like I don't none of that has any material existence in my life. It is it is quite literally because I'm watching this game, I'm gonna talk about this game, I'm gonna be in it, I'm gonna give a fuck like I play for this team. I cannot help that. Okay, I cannot. There's nothing I can do about that. That's why I'm sitting here producing my own show, talking into a fucking microphone alone, queuing up an interview that I typically don't do because it's it's just it's fucking more work and it's just more you know, do you cut this, do you export that? How's that sound? Levels are off, one of this is in mono, the other's in stereo. You know, how the fuck do you record? Like, like, and I've been in this situation in the field recently. We got guys recording mono. If you're out there listening and you're out there recording in mono, I'm gonna come and kill you. And I'm gonna find you if you have a dual channel laugh system in the mic, uh if you have a dual laugh system in the field and saying wired mic, Bluetooth, however the fuck you want to commit it to your receiver, uh means nothing to me. I'm just saying if you ever put a mono file in front of me after we sat and fucking spec'd out a stereo recording, I'm gonna cut your throat. I'm gonna watch it bleed out, I'm gonna stand over your body light die. I'm gonna save her every minute. You're while while while that blood is gushing out, I'm gonna I'm just gonna stand there over your convulsing dead body and then stand there and go, that's what you get for recording mono. That's what you get. Because to record a mono is a crime. And I need to get that off my chest. Why? Maybe because I'm manually working on a project that was recorded in mono, should have been done in stereo, but that's not important. What's important is that Brian Smith is about to join the show. What's important is that we're post trade deadline. I said Friday be a long, weird show. It's Friday morning. This this is a long, weird show. It's a long, weird show. It is. Yeah. Yeah, I gotta I gotta own this one being one of the a little bit more off the rails, you know, and then this again, going back to the tape. I'll sit down, I'll watch the tape, I'll go, maybe I should, maybe I should do the show then to end to the interview, maybe do an interview before the show, you know, kind of scrambles me. You know, and and honestly, maybe this none of this shit matters. You know, is like most of anything doesn't matter. There's your nihilism. None of the shit matters, and everything matters. That's the choice you have to make. Either none of it matters, you don't give a fuck, or every pitch matters. And I know when I say that to the maniacs, they know exactly who I'm talking to, and that's why I love you guys. Is um almost entirely, and that's being literal, is that I can say a hundred like a hundred percent. We're we're we're losers about the Cubs, we're lunatics, we're psychopaths. And in that spirit, I'm gonna have Brian Smith join the show, who is the Cubs guy on all prospects online, and he's credentialed, he's baseball America, he's doing been doing this for 20 years as he talks about the story. He got out of prospects 35, you know, fucking years ago. Like they it's like one of those things where like, how'd you get into it? I don't know. I you just you don't know what I know is this. I know more than I should know, right? That that that's kind of the relationship with Brian. He doesn't do a ton of interviews, he doesn't do a ton of forward-facing media. So we're gonna consider this like a purple refractor serial number card, you know, as I'm getting in the collectible space. This is a special interview to me. Now, is this the PSA 10? It's up to you. That's your own fucking decision, Mr. Greater interviewer. I'm telling you personally, this is the type of interview at the start of the season you have in mind to collect. Right? This is it at the start of the season, I go, I want to obviously you gotta have big cat on for the kickoff. We're gonna have big cat on for playoffs. We don't do guess. I'm just telling you guys. All right, we can have AC on Alex Cohen for the comprehensive in-detail season preview. I'm lining up Lance Brodzowski because that's somebody I absolutely love to death. Have just tremendous respect for him in the space. You know, and this isn't coming in from a personal spot of like you're good enough to be on the show, you're not good enough to be on the show, you're whatever. I have a sincere dedication to you guys that listen to the show that not it, not not anything in this can do do anything other than operate towards your experience watching the Cubs. That's it. That's it, that's it. That's the only thing that shows for not personal bullshit, not nothing, nothing, don't give a fuck. Even though I just made, you know, like talking cutler, okay, that's gonna find its way in here. That is, but the genesis of this goes back to the genesis of red line radio, and it what got me in front of a microphone in the first place is say, here's what I think about this team 11, 12, whatever years ago, and all this shit and all the fun stuff and all the good stuff that comes to it, and and so as I get into this, we're gonna hear from Brian. I'm I'm doing a bad job because I'm always long-winded. That's why we're an hour 15 in the fucking show here, guys. I got it. Why do I do that? Why? Why can't I just say we're into the show? I gotta go always F this F that. Like, there's a crutch that I hate about myself. One of many, okay? So if if you're listening to this and you have things about yourself you hate, I'm here for you. We are brothers. I that's close to the top of the list. Can't find a word, just yell fuck. Oh god. If I tease this Brian Smith interview enough, you guys want to hear about some prospects. So let's get to Brian. Last thing, I'm just mixing it down. One person you know that means it, but I have to get this off my chest because again, I a producer might recent that, but I'm mixing down the Brian conversation. If it sounds a little bit different, you know, than like the locally recorded, you know, audio that's running through a soundboard pro fx six. Then then like I'm not naming names to be the guy, but I'm just saying, like, if it sounds different, you know, like I'm not I'm I'm local stereo right now through a pro FX6. You know, like take that for what it is, the conversation with Brian, not so much, but we do the best we can. That's because it's a Money Morning Cup show. And just a quick reminder, at the end of this interview with Brian, I'm gonna hard cut the show. So if it sounds like the show ended when the interview's over, that's because the show ends when the interview's over. And you know who's in charge of that? The guy who fucking produces it. So let's get into the Brian Smith interview. And thank you guys very much for tuning in the Money Morning Cup Show. You get a chance, check out Thirsty Vacaro, or take it one step further, leave a review, or be a super fan and do both. Get a Thirsty Vaccaro and leave a review. And uh in in in in in in maybe maybe if you do that, maybe if enough people do that, I'll get an honest night's rest. I can't even say that. I'll get an honest night's rest. Ugh, got a bad dude. All right, let's take it to

Brian Smith Joins The Show

SPEAKER_00 1:17:40

Brian. All right, we're in the interview portion of today's show. And as I said in the intro, as I will repeat again as we get into this, I am extremely lucky to be joined by Brian Smith from Baseball America, one of the foremost experts on baseball prospects and specifically the number one Chicago Cubs prospect guy, period, on the internet. Brian, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:03

Thank you so much for having me on.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:05

Yeah, I I've followed you for years, I have consumed your content for years, I have used you as a primary source for prospect opinions for years. And so this is the first time we get to sit down and chop it up post trade deadline. I'm in I I feel grateful, I feel lucky as a as a Cubs Twitter guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:27

Well, thank you. I that's that's a uh that's quite the red carpet you're laying out for me. I I feel lucky that we're rooting for this baseball team right now. How about it?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:36

Yeah, I did some of the hottest baseball I've seen played in that uniform. You have to go to August 2015, you have to go to April of 2016. I mean, you have to really carve out specific months unless there's a different month. Am I missing? No, I mean, I think that's I think that's right. Yeah, and like the the other very unique thing about this, like we can win World Series, ball or strike, baller strike, we can win a world series.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:04

I think that's a I think it's a strike. Uh and and we're gonna talk about the deadline today, and I think the the deadline uh makes that more likely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:13

And like again, as I'm not repeating stuff that I said in the intro, obviously, you serve a very specific purpose in Cubs Twitter, in Cubs online community, etc., representing prospects. So, like, we're gonna have that conversation. I teed you up a little bit and give you credibility. What like before we do this, though, I there's still some people who need to hear it. So you're a baseball America, you're a prospect junkie, you are just addicted to the concept of a guy getting to the big leagues. How would you explain it?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:47

Yeah, I mean, I I view the minor leagues as like um the cleanest way to see hope in your organization, you know, and and if you're a bad team, it create it's like the only hope that you have is that the minor leagues are are the what are the thing that's gonna bring you a star. And if you're a good team, the minor leagues are the thing that is gonna help your organization sustain being good. And and so to me, it's always been useful for my fandom to to look forward, and and that's how that's what prospects do for me, is they is they allow me to sort of project forward some amount of hope.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:27

So let's hone in a little bit on this expertise here for a second. Your playing career, no, your prospect career, yes. How do you explain that too different? You are in it for the love. How do you how do you explain or how do you view your relationship with the game as it relates to the fact that you know all you know so much about every minor leaguer? What what place does that come from?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:49

Yeah, no, you know, this is funny because this is a non-Cubs, this is like an anti-Cubs story in a lot of ways, but uh I was 13 years old, my dad took me to a Peoria Chiefs game, and this guy hit a walk-off double in the 10th inning, and the next year he won the rookie of the year, he was Albert Poohs. And I and I looked back at that, my dad explained explained sort of the process of the the minor leagues to me, and and I thought it was so cool that I had seen this guy this guy do that, and and sort of became addicted. And you know, I mean that that takes us to from Corey Patterson to today to have been sort of just uh lapping it up the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:34

Is it if I called you a maniac about the cubs, is that fair, is that a fair statement, or would you say you're a maniac about the cubs?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:41

Yes, absolutely. I'm a season ticket holder for for 12 years now. I live a mile away from the stadium. I am uh I'm a true psycho.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:49

All right, so this is this is all good stuff, guys. As we get into this conversation, I'm just delighted to do and ask what I'm about to ask and get into the meat and potatoes.

Did The Cubs Overpay

SPEAKER_00 1:22:00

I but before I you guys have to trust me, the Brian knows more about minor league players in the Cub system than anybody you're gonna hear from. So I have to start with this ball or strike. Brian, did we give up too much at this trade deadline for Kevin Gossman, Clay Holmes, Tyrone Taylor, Ryan Zavierjan, Gibbot Braxinger? The whole package overall, if you had to say baller strike, did we give up too much?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:25

I'm gonna say ball. I think um, you know, I think the Cubs really held firm that there were two players that they did not want to give up, and um, they didn't they didn't give those guys up. They they didn't give up a high-end pitcher, they didn't give up some guys, some really good young outfielders as well, on top of their untouchable players that I'm sure we'll talk about. Um, I think I think the value coming in and the way that it specifically meets this major league team, which had such a gaping hole. It was like it was the easiest hole to diagnose that I remember at a trade deadline of my Cubs fandom. Like, you know, you're not patching the the seventh inning reliever or something. I mean, maybe the 2016 closer. We knew we had to get a closer, right? And so you're gonna have to overpay a little bit for Chapman. This was hey, we're gonna need two starting pitchers if we're gonna make any noise in the playoffs. And um, the Cubs were willing to make it hurt a little bit, but I don't think it ended up hurting as much as I was uh sort of prepared for.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:29

Now I have other baller strikes, but then I I am pulled into what you were prepared for. So what were you prepared for going to the trade deadline?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:38

Um, I guess I I mean I guess I thought that um that if the Cubs were going to get a reliever that could help pitch like a game one of the playoffs, that they were gonna have to give up uh one of their top two prospects. And and then I mean the Kevin Gauffman trade, I'll I'll say just straight away. I mean, I didn't have them giving up a top 15 prospect in that trade. And that to me is such a win getting a getting a rental without giving up a top 15 prospect that literally pitched game six of the World Series. So loved that trade. Um, the Holmes trade obviously hurts a little harder, and we'll get into that, but um, I still think that's a trade worth making because um I think that's a guy they're gonna work really hard to re-sign, so I don't know that it's strictly a rental.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:30

See, I I spend very little time on the concentrating on the re-signing stuff and contracts. I do like the control aspect when you trade for a younger guy. When you go in a free agency, I'm a little bit tuned out. So that's that's certainly unique perspective on Clay Holmes with the resign. Let me go back to this. You've said this twice now without identifying the names. You keep going. The top two prospects. Who are those top two prospects to you? Are they top two prospects to everybody? Is this a personal opinion? Is this an industry opinion?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:56

Well, I think I think it's a personal opinion. The two names, let's go there, are just Josiah Hartshorn, who plays for the South Bend Cubs, an outfielder, sometimes plays first base, and then Owen Ayers, who's a catcher who's with the Iowa Cubs. Those to me and with my contacts with the Cubs are the Cubs' top two prospects. I think Jefferson Rojas, who goes in the Clay Holmes deal, is is widely seen as the number two prospect going into the deadline. And so that is the piece that hurts a little bit. But to me, the ones that the Cubs did not want to get rid of were Josiah and Owen, and um they're here and continue to be a big part of this organization's plans.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:38

So then how would you compare? Because this is a this is a sincere point that my brain cannot wrap around. Is like, I okay, so we take uh we take our prospects in the minor lease, but then when people are mocking up trades online, they're going Matt Shaw, and I'm over here at the big league level going, get your get your hands off Matt Shaw. Hands off Matt Shaw. You know, I saw somebody go Kate Horton. It's like I own every Kate Horton Bowman 22 draft card. Like, don't even start talking about trading Kate Horton because to me that's untouchable. So are are you putting Ayers and Hartshorn in that category of untouchable is Shaw and Kate Horton, or is there a difference there? Because one there two guys are big league, two guys are minors. Where do you differentiate those two?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:24

I'll tell you this. I think behind Pete Crow Armstrong, then the player with the number two trade asset value in the organization is Josiah Hartshorn. I think he's I think he's above Matt Shaw. Cade would have been number two by a mile before this injury. Now it's obviously so hard to sort of calibrate it um now that he has the injury. So, you know, if you wanted to say Cade over Josiah, that's that's fine. But for me, Hartshorn and what and the potential that he

Untouchables And Top Prospects

SPEAKER_01 1:26:55

has is is uh man, I would not have wanted to give that up even for Reed Deppmers.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:02

And having watched Moises by Asteros at the big league level and then seeing Ayers, are you comfortable when we move that catching depth? You know, a guy like me is sitting here going, I like a big Venezuelan chubby guy who can handle the bat. You're coming in here though, more inventory stacked, like you have more data in front of you. So we're comfortable moving Moises because Ayers is that good.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:23

Yeah, I I do wonder if they're connected um a little bit, but I don't, you know, I think Moises was just seen as not a catcher. And the way Craig Counsel likes to have his roster is he likes that DH spot to be flexible, and it's really hard for hitting prospects to break into a team with a $250 million payroll because we're never gonna look at a roster in the offseason and say, Yeah, give me 500 plate appearances for a guy that's unproven completely, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:53

Yeah, I've always said that like you can find a guy who can slug 480. The problem is there's nowhere to put him.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:00

there's the the amount of slug out there that is unemployed is through the roof they can't run they can't field they can't throw they can't they can stay in the box and hit so then when you turn around and you say okay we're gonna give that opportunity you know to like a 20 something year old guy with no experience uh in the dh role like it's dh like who do you when you say dh like you go dh I go Edgar Martinez you go DH I go David Ortiz you go dh you go right to classic dh's so it's like it's like almost having a field goal kicker where the range is like well it's limited to 40 yards why well he has never played in the big leagues before so and I'll tell I'll tell you this with Moises specifically I know that there were two times in his development the Cubs worked really hard at adding power to what he was doing uh one was uh a year or two ago in the minors I'd have to look the the specific time I think it was two years ago in the minors and then this year a little bit when he got to the majors and those two times resulted in his two biggest slumps of his career and I think the Cubs saw that and I think they they they started to realize that the power might not happen to the degree that it would have to in the DH spot and I think that's why they were okay trading and you have this from you worked for the Cubs you you're what are you season ticket holder you're around the field you're talking to the guy who rolls a tarp out on the field what are you getting hot dog vendor notes on the way out yeah yeah I mean you know fill your sources I'm saying the process in which you get this information I don't want names I just the process you endure sure I mean I I I'm in the Arizona at the backfields every spring I spend a I spend a week out there I I see a bunch of stuff and that first time that I talked about Moises trying to add power was specifically theirs it was during a spring training um but from then on you know I the the Cubs are nice they have every one of their full season affiliates you can watch on on MILB.tv and I watch a lot of baseball and and then in addition to that just you know talking to members of the organization some old scouting friends from around baseball so you know try to try to mash the eye test with some more informed opinions than I have God bless you and and thank you for doing that and having that passion because you provide an invaluable service to the Cubs community and I mean that like sincerely everybody's listening that hasn't followed Brian go check him out of it the the stuff that comes out from Cubs prospects and the information you have like about guys going up and down or guys performing well or or you'll you'll send out a 10 day stretch this guy's doing well keep your eye on this guy starting to peek up it's like you are literally the source anytime I get an interest in a prospect I can source nine out of 10 times to something that you have said so so between Ayers and ja Josiah yeah who if you could keep one who do you think if you had to pick one ball or strike or I guess whatever that is I would keep I mean I would keep Josiah I think he's the he's the one with the all-star potential I mean there's a you're gonna see when you see him eventually tell me he doesn't remind you of Lance Berkman I mean the guys guys in the switch hitter with a big ass frame um and and power's coming understands the strike zone there's a lot of of Lance Berkman in him uh Owen Ayers I think the nice thing about Owen we talked about Moises having a hard time to break through with that DH spot you might be able to break Owen Ayers in in the majors next year only ask him to you know have 250 300 plate appearances I think it's a little easier to sort of create that runway you know I mean how long has it taken Miguel a Maya to to you know he doesn't have even that full season role yet but he was able to sort of carve out a spot with this team by being sort of inched along and I think that that might be what we see with Ayers

Why Move Ballesteros

SPEAKER_01 1:31:50

as early as next year.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:51

So then let's go back to Jefferson Rojas because that's a perfect transition point of like you just said 250 300 plate appearances and when I looked at Rojas I'm like gosh I I love everything about him. I mean the makeup he plays above his age he is a obviously being a good shortstop means you can transition to to to second there's plenty of runway there to wear in third like this I got maybe little left field if you're if if you're truly a great ball player and you have the time and the spring trainings I mean I could go on and on when you look at like a young guy like that and then and then statistically Rojas who we traded to the Mets for Clay Holmes and Tyrone Taylor what the thing that jumps off when you have a 460 slug which is something we talk a lot about on the Monday morning cub show on the Friday shows when we get deep in the numbers and you and you really think about what is it what is what slugging mean in getting extra bases and you naturally assume that the ball's going over the fence with the high slug so when I looked at Jefferson Rojas it's like you have this undeveloped raw guy who's slugging 460 with one homer in double a one one ball over the oh no no no he's got 15 homers this year I'm gonna have to cut I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to cut that observation out so I'll pick it up from this so when I when I see when I see what thank you for that crashing by the way so when I see when I see us when I see a slug from that guy and I'm trying to think does this does this apply to the big league level is this or do were the Cubs comfortable and saying he's not a power profile what was the weakness in Jefferson Rojas's game that then allowed Jed to say fine we're gonna take a chance on an injured clay homes and an utility outfielder right yeah I wonder you know with the benefit of hindsight of seeing that they traded him I wonder if they saw a little bit of a tweener profile where I mean he does show above average power and above average contact in double A.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:47

But I think maybe did the Cubs look at that and say he does show those things but he's not showing them enough on either side of the equation that um that it's going to translate quite enough like if you're gonna be a successful big leaguer you do probably want something to hang your hat on right you want that one dominant skill that that when you're running bad is going to help get you out of that slump. And you know maybe they looked at Rojas and they said he does a lot of things pretty well but if we're gonna pick a guy who who maybe doesn't get over the hump to the degree that they're gonna need a prospect to uh maybe he doesn't have one skill that's quite plus enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:28

Yeah and I like that I like that I like doing a deal with Stearns over at the Mats because he's very objective and is historically like not an emotional guy. Jed is at the high

What Rojas Lacks At The Top

SPEAKER_00 1:34:40

end in my opinion of major league baseball executives that are not emotional that make moves and then will stand in front of the mic and camera and go we're doing this for the long term and he means it and I put Stearns in the same category so I'd like when the two of them do a deal but there's other circumstances like last year with the nationals who do the deal for Soroka I don't love that like it's like purely from an institutional standpoint.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:05

So from your mind like where you sit do you have opinions about organizations we go I like when the Cubs are talking to this team because Jed has leverage how do you view Jed relative to that like space they walk in a room there's 30 MLB presidents do you like that Jed is the guy representing the team that you fucking love yeah I you know I thought for a while when Jed took over that he seemed like uh the kind of president that was good for a selling team and bad for a buying team and I and I worried about that quite a bit for a while and it does feel to me a little bit like ever since uh like I think the Kyle Tucker trade was a big um I don't know big time where Jed decided to say you know what um I I can see the writing on the wall that that my job's on the line if if we don't start to produce a team with a real chance of winning the World Series I'm gonna stop being a little bit so safe and I and I think that he you know I think he's been more willing to go away from from what like the model that they have in the front office says is a fair trade and and be willing to say hey clay home's my pitch in game one of three playoff series that's worth more to me than if I lose this trade from a war perspective I mean they're gonna lose that Kyle Tucker trade from a war perspective almost surely because you know Cam Smith over six years with Houston surely will get past what Tucker was with the Cubs but you know I don't think Hoyer looks back and regrets that trade. It was like yeah when Kyle Tucker was mashing in April and that team looked in June like they might win a World Series like I didn't regret that then and and I'm not gonna um I'm not gonna let a guy who creates two war for six seasons make me regret it now.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:58

As somebody who follows the prospect scene as closely as you do are you happy with what Jed has turned from the major fire sale from 2021 if you go back a couple years and then we we sit here today do you think he did a good job yeah I mean I think that you I think what fans sometimes do as a mistake is they evaluate every trade on its own and they stack them up and they say hey lost the Rizzo trade lost the Bryant trade but you know what like you're gonna lose most trades when you take on a prospect that's the nature of following prospects they're gonna fail they're gonna fail they're gonna fail and then you have Pete Croarmstrong and the rest doesn't matter right and so he he did the process of getting players with a bunch of upside and a bunch of them failed and and he got the MVP and so you know that that was a success to me. We're in the danger zone here maniacs guys listen to the show here you know how I get right and I want to just tell our audience right now I am triggered right now to go down a five hour path here with Brian because just the amount of questions and stuff I want to talk about personally I'm like I'm losing the fact that we're doing a show because I'm just sitting here talking ball with Brian he knows so much about the Cubs I obviously we want to be sensitive to our time constraints here. What I would love what I would be interested in is in your perspective and by the way I agree with that the point you just made about Jed Hoyer being great for sellers and maybe learn a little bit more about a buyer sensational compression into what is an object an objectively true and categorically unmitigated fact kept Jed Hoyer when it came to selling was at the time was right there when it came to buying it was like we're we're starting to see Jed buy

Jed Hoyer As A Buyer

SPEAKER_00 1:38:55

which I like I would say I would now that we have him I would have traded Anthony Rizzo Chris Bryant Javier Baez Addison I would have Kyle everybody for Pika Armstrong and what we have right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:08

The series that just got put on from the Dodgers so I guess that's that that that would be the first big takeaway is like I as we come out of this trade deadline and people talk about prospect capital moving this and that we hit a home we hit one of the all time home runs ever at the trade deadline is that fair baller strike Pika Armstrong for Javier Bas baller strike one of one of not saying the one of the one of the greatest trade deadline acquisitions of all time strike yeah I mean I grew up with my dad still talking about the Lou Brock trade and what and what damage it did to the Cubs way back when the Cubs the Cubs have their version of that trade and then some I mean you know this guy is gonna this guy is on pace to pass Sammy Sosa's season as the best Cub season of my lifetime and and I believe the best one since Rogers Hornsby in 1929. So um yeah I mean this is it's it's absurd.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:15

I mean I and you know I watched him play all through the minor leagues and um I it it's just so fun when this happens to see a guy that you wrote you wrote about his ceiling and and he doesn't give an F about some dumb writer's I concept of a ceiling he he blows through it he hardly cares about babe brooks I mean he's just doing his own thing yeah it doesn't exist is a baseball historian it's like okay I can put that to the side for a second I just just go play the I just go play the games Pete don't talk about the games go play the games um but you know dude you're you're dead on balls accurate i i want to now I want to get your taste on this this segment just pitch clock we just 30 you know pitch clock obviously uh uh number one prospect you you going into trade deadline you go we have to keep this guy i know we talked about josh we we talked about ayers and everything but like you know so it was it gun to your head josiah josiah artshorn uh best prospect in the system by a ton and is he top 10 is he top 20 is he where is he in yeah i'd say top top 25 i think is is a fair fair number for him okay so you go back you said watch lance uh berkman play obviously love that comp from rice just a just an all-time swaggy when you say baseball players are born and not made i don't want to repeat this when we say the phrase baseball players are born they are not made we talk about a guy like Lance Berkman that that's exactly what you're talking about guy who's gonna go drink 13 medellos in the parking lot afterwards and show up tomorrow and go three for four so is Josiah of that like makeup like ball player makeup what what what's the what's that personal character makeup where you look at is there something about him you look at him you go man true ball player like Dansby has that Bregman has that what does he have that what how would you Josiah is an absolute rat he he had an injury in high school and he couldn't swing left handed so he just so he just started swinging right handed started started throwing some right handed to just stay in games um and is a switch hitter now and and um has a great ops this year right handed i mean he's just a guy he i mean just a week ago he he got a little injured in a game didn't want to come out and hit lefty on lefty um didn't hit right handed because he was a little sore on the other side i mean he's he's a true crazy person and and cup fans are gonna like him what's the biggest weakness in the Scott and report for him yeah I mean you wonder about the athleticism as he gets a little bigger I mean he's already playing a little first base now and so you know there's a little bit of that risk of like if he bulks out enough that the athleticism goes away what does that do to the profile but um you know to me that also could just mean that he gets a whole ton of power and so it doesn't scare me too much. So love him we

Hartshorn Makeup And Risk

SPEAKER_00 1:43:10

keep him that's great was there a guy that you were like I'm happy to trade this guy he's overvalued who is there somebody in our top 10 we go if we get rid of this guy no sweat off my back I follow these guys for a living and and and let me just say this respectfully because I don't like trashing baseball players that do super fashion these are these they're doing the best they can there's not almost every guy on the field is doing the best they can so what I'll say is that if like when you trade a prospect you have to get the value of like they're the a top 100 prospect a top 200 prospect top 300 prospect I I would say that like if if the Cubs could have traded Jackson Wiggins or Kane Keply and gotten top 100 prospect value and those guys get ranked in the top 100 of a couple outlets I you know I I would have been okay with trading that because top 100 prospects have a lot of value.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:02

Jackson Wiggins has taken a little bit of a step back this year uh Kane Keply has a profile that that I wonder how it's going to translate. So those were a couple guys that I said you know if you get that top 100 valuation then you know and you're getting a controllable starter or something I could live with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:19

And that's where I was at when Jefferson Rojas got ranked 97th you know by the MO the whatever the three houses are it's like trading cards like whoever who the three big institutions are that do the ratings only one of them had had granted Jefferson Rojas top 100 status but to me it's like perfect perfect that's the exact fringe level guy I want Jed shopping to the market. You could buy the guy who's not rated at the top hundred by the other two where the alternative perspective is if he was the true top hundred he'd be you know in all of them so like I I do have that inherent trust for Jed it's it's comforting know I'm having a conversation with a guy who's like working sources and having conversations behind the scenes by the way going down to spring training for one week and meeting people and getting numbers and text messages and establishing that relationship I think that might be the most important week of the year for guys in our position is being down there before once the season starts off to the races buddy the season has started you got to get it before the season so that you can be prepared for the season and so I have one last question for you in your infinite wisdom of Cubs minor league players the prospect system and what should come to fruition at the big league level what was the number one thing you learned after the trade deadline about the organization not that somebody told you Brian did you see this where you're looking back and watching the moves Jed made and now you can say diagnose one true factual statement that is more clear now after the trade deadline about how the Cubs view the farm system and how we want to manage our prospect capital.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:08

I'm saying that's such a long-winded question to you I want to put you in a box and I want that box to explode

What The Deadline Reveals

SPEAKER_01 1:46:15

okay I would say the thing I learned is that Jed is not projecting the future of this organization by using the farm system he's using the farm system to take the current bones of this major league team and keep that success going. And so it's not the players in the minors that are going to that are going to create that future it's the players that the minor leagues are going to be able to buy him he's gonna pick a couple minor leaguers that he wants to keep and he's gonna trade the rest of them and just try to keep success each year. This is not a he does not want this team to go through ups and downs he wants to continue the success and he's viewing that he has enough with this current major league roster to have success for the next two three four seasons so then ball or strike we're not really in a position based on the guys we gave up at this trade headline to in the future come back and go that was a bad trade like it seems pretty fair ball or strike yeah I mean I love it I love dude the hesitation from the prospect guy is exactly what you want that's what makes you the prospect guy right exactly yeah I mean you know I mean the thing they say is it has to work right um and so at the end of the day like you know to me last year like you you win a playoff series there like I don't regret any of the prospects they traded away last year because of because we got that Padre series um you know if Jefferson Rojas becomes an all-star and this team missed the playoffs I'm gonna be pissed and I'm gonna play hindsight and I don't care um but if this team gets two playoff series wins you know it doesn't really matter to me then what Jefferson Rojas's career looks like because um you know the front office put the organization in the place they need to be to have a chance and and to give us October fun at the end of the day like Saul serves us having a good time right yeah and like I I feel I'm in a unique position for the first time in almost 10 years where you're like I'm I'm cheering for these guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:21

The guys we train I I hope Jefferson Rojas has a great career much in the same way I felt about you know Eloy in much the same way that you know you feel about Glaybard and and when you're giving up to get it's like it's all part of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:35

You know I'll say this you know we saw Brendan Little pitch in the World Series for the Blue Jays last year former first round pick for the Cubs and I absolutely loved seeing him pitch there. But then you know what we also saw him pitch in the 11th inning of today's game and and lose to the Cubs and that's the biggest value of all is uh play good everywhere else and suck when you come to Wrigley and and I'm happy for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:01

Yeah today Alex Ling and Brendan Little took them out on the same day as it like a Cubs prospect or have you watched if you you might have had a moment if you're a prospector if you follow the minor leaders you go I'm watching Alex Ling throw sliders I'm watching Brennan Little throw nasty sweepers and and in some world though you're like it's okay it didn't work out with us I'm happy you are though figuring out them it's it's like it's like a mature relationship you're like I'm happy for I'm legitimately I'm happy it's like didn't work out but I'm happy for you I really I am right Brian like that's okay yeah you know the prospect hugging term gets thrown around a lot now and it's like you know I'm I'm gonna hug these guys in terms of having successful careers but I but you know I'm not gonna live and die by whether their successful careers come for the Cubs as long as the Cubs continue to win. Guys this is Brian Smith this is by far in a way if I've said it once I'll say it for the 15th time uh the number one source on Cubs prospects of in anything that has to do with a player who could have a future with the Chicago Cubs he exists

Rooting For Traded Guys And Wrap

SPEAKER_00 1:50:10

and Brian Smith knows about him and he's talking about these players and you can follow Brian Smith if this is something that resonates with you it certainly resonates with me. It's a foundational principle to why the Monday morning cub show exists why I got into content in the first place how much I love the cat and mouse game of on field play but then you have to defer you have to bend the knee you have to understand when other people are fucking better than you and know more than you and I can confidently tell you guys in the realm of people who know the space of minor league baseball and then within that the fucking guys who are coming up to the Cubs go to Brian Brian's following them he's watching them he's talking about them he's creating conversations about them and anything that has to do with the future of the of the c of the Cubs is is going to flow through Brian Smith is that and then I'm sorry you're you're here while I'm doing the outro but I think what I just said about choose fair Brian I think you're the ultimate hype man and uh and I will uh I will employ you in that role as long as you'll take it God bless you my brother thanks for joining the Monday morning cub show I know when I hit publish I'm get about to get a flood of DMs of people that are like can you do more with Brian you and Brian should start a show together you and Brian should be talking about the Cubs you can have guys just just be nice and say thank you to Brian for coming on the Monday Morning Cub show make him feel welcome in a part of the community that we have which is obviously being the diehard 160 tours don't miss a pitch live and breathe with the bad losses that's okay there's guys like Brian that are here to coach us into the long term I think that's a fair way to say prospecting I like it. Yeah no I'm uh I was it was fun let's do it again yeah absolutely and Brian just so people know again how they find you where where are you where's your work yeah I'm do the uh Cubs team reports for baseball america each issue for the magazine and uh and uh subscribers can also access that online and then on uh twitter at at cub prospects that's the White House folks you just got granted access to the White House I hope you take advantage of the access Brian just gave you go follow him go get informed about what's going on with the Cubs um you know but in the meantime obviously Brian thank you very much for joining the show we're better off for having you on um and I look forward to talking to you soon my friend absolutely man go Cubs