64. Discipline, Faith and Phones: Christian Parenting in the Digital Age

Parenting today can feel like being in a tornado or holding back a storm brewing in the background —graphic headlines on every feed, smartphones in every pocket, and a culture that treats faith as a long-lost relic of an age gone by. We invited Dr. Ray Guarendi—clinical psychologist, EWTN host, and father of ten adopted children—to help us navigate the chaos with clear judgment, deep faith, and steady authority. The result is a candid, practical roadmap for raising resilient kids in a world that tests every boundary.

We start with the hard question: how do we help children process violence they may see online, specifically news of recent school shooting at Annunciation Church in Minnesota and the targeted killing of prominent debater and podcaster Charlie Kirk? Dr. Ray shares age-specific guidance for shielding younger kids and engaging teens through thoughtful questions that surface doubts, fears, and assumptions. From there, we dismantle the “safety as a reason for smartphones" myth that may be used by some people, with the flip-phone test, then rebuild a practical path of parenthood: privileges earned through trustworthiness, strong filters, paired devices, and limited apps. You’ll hear why consistency matters more than speeches, and how to replace arguments with calm consequences that work—like the blackout method that ends endless negotiations.

We also confront the myth that high standards cause rebellion. Standards give direction; love must always be accompanied with discipline. Dr. Ray shows how authority, delivered with affection, keeps homes peaceful and frees room for joy and humour. (Dr. Ray's got jokes, folks, lol) He opens up about adopting without boundaries, relying on grace, and finding laughter in the mess. 

We close with hope for parents whose older kids have drifted from the faith. Even Christ, perfect in love, was rejected by many; your job is to witness, pray, and keep the light on. The seeds you planted can still bear fruit when the world’s promises fall flat.

If you’re ready to parent with courage—setting firm boundaries, cultivating daily prayer, and guiding your kids through a noisy culture—this conversation will steady your steps. Listen, share with a friend who needs backup, and subscribe for more faith-filled, practical episodes. Your calm conviction is the compass your family needs.

A Big "Thank you" to Dr. Ray Guarendi and Taylor Wilson! Wishing you and our American sisters and brothers a Blessed Thanksgiving Week!!!

For Dr. Ray Guarendi's books, radio and TV episodes, and speaking engagements, please visit:

https://www.drray.com

He is also on social media: 

YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@dr.rayguarendi

Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/Dr.RayGuarendi/

Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/dr.rayguarendi/

X/Twitter:

https://x.com/drrayguarendi

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening, Theme, And Guest Intro
• 3:30 Prayer And Framing The Crisis
• 3:56 Helping Kids Process Violence Online
• 8:10 Teens, Doubt, And Guided Conversation
• 10:55 Culture Without God And Tech’s Influence
• 15:55 Phone-Smart Parenting And Peer Pressure
• 21:15 Safety Myths, Flip Phones, And Boundaries
• 24:30 Research on smartphone use for kids
• 28:40 Parenting From Authority Not Fear
• 33:05 Privilege, Trustworthiness, And Controls
• 38:10 Consequences That Work: The Blackout
• 44:20 "Gentle parenting" theories vs. Real-World Kids
• 49:30 High Standards, Rebellion, And Love
• 55:20 Adoption Story And Humour In Parenting
• 1:00:30 God-centred Parenting

Transcript

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 0:00

Discipline without love may be harsh. Love without discipline is child abuse. And the reason for that is, and a lot of your a lot of your listeners and viewers, Sheila, have very high standards. Their standards are higher than the cultures. Here's where they struggle.

Sheila Nonato: 0:26

Hello and welcome to the Veil + Armour Podcast. This is your host, Sheila Nonato. I'm a stay-at-home mom and a freelance Catholic journalist. Seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the inspiration of Our Lady, I strive to tell stories that inspire, illuminate, and enrich the lives of Catholic women to help them in living out our vocation of raising the next generation of leaders and saints.

Co-Host: 0:50

Please join us every week on the Veil in Armour Podcast, where stories come alive through a journalist's land and mother's heart. Welcome to this week's Episode Sisters in Christ.

Sheila Nonato: 1:00

For this week's topic, we will look at how do we parent in the digital age? Do the traditional parenting methods, the idea of discipline, do we throw that out the window for these new theories of parenting? Let's talk to top Catholic expert on marriage and parenting, clinical psychologist, and father of 10 adopted children, Dr. Ray Guarandi, the one and only from EWTN. Thank you very much for joining us, and let's hear some practical tips and encouragement for Christian mothers and Christian parents.

Sheila Nonato: 1:35

Welcome to the Veil and Armour Podcast, and we are humbled and honored to have Dr. Ray Guarandi on our family's podcast apostolate. It's quite fitting that he is a military father whose children have served in Afghanistan, Iraq, Africa, and Korea. Since our podcast is Veil and Armour, Dr. Grandi is a Catholic husband, father to 10 adopted children, clinical psychologist, author of over 20 books, professional speaker, international radio and TV host. And for over 40 years, Dr. Ray's in-depth experience has led to helping thousands eliminate parenting frustrations and build stronger marriages by showing them proven parenting techniques and following their God-given instincts to raise their kids for heaven. His radio show that "Doctor Is In" can be heard on EWTN, Global Catholic Radio Network, Cirrus XM, iHeartRadio, and over 500 domestic and international AM and FM radio affiliates. His TV show, "Living Right with Dr. Ray," can be seen on EWTN, and you can find his books on his website, drray.com.

Sheila Nonato: 2:47

Wow, Dr. Ray, I am so humbled and honoured again that you're here with us. We have so much to learn from you. Can you please start us off with a prayer?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 2:57

Sure. In the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Dear Lord, please give us the good words to say. Thank you so much that we are alive. We know what we know. You've allowed us to know what we know. Please give us words that will help others to know you better and to see your truths. In your name we pray to the Father. Amen. In the Namee of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Sheila Nonato: 3:29

Thank you very much for that. And so it's been quite a few weeks in the news cycle. We've had the tragic, horrific shooting of the Catholic children at Annunciation Church not too long ago. Um, the murder of the two children, Fletcher and Harper, who are Heaven's newest saints, um, along with St. Carlo Acutis, of course, and the high-profile murder of conservative podcaster Charlie Kirk. Now, how do we how do you to be honest, Dr. Ray, I'm also struggling myself. I was to be honest, I was just uh turned on my computer and without any warning, it was on X, the video, the assassination video. No filter, no warning. And to be, I'm sorry, I might cry because I'm still struggling to process what I saw. Like I have been in the Middle East, I've reported on terrorism, um, you know, crime, but I haven't seen an actual person get killed. You know, I've talked to survivors, but this really shook me. And I wasn't sure how to explain it to my children. How how would you suggest what would you suggest for us? How do we explain it, especially for children who might have seen it? Because we, you know, Gen Alpha is the, I guess, the the children who have grown up in the digital age. And how do we explain it to them and how do we help them if they are struggling?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 4:52

Depends on the age, Sheila. Now, your little guy that I saw there, right, the beginning of this podcast, there's no reason for him to see or even know about this. To the degree you can shelter him from it. Don't have the TV on when he's around. Don't let him look over your shoulder to whatever you're scrolling through. That's the first thing. Now, if you got kids going to a school where they're going to hear this stuff and they're going to raise questions, then you're going to have to address it. Simple way to do it. Honey, God tells us how to live. He knows the best way for us to live. Some people ignore God, they do what they want. Either because they think God doesn't exist or because they don't like what He says. And God allows that. But for right now, there are people who do wrong things, very, very wrong things. Sheila, some parents question that if a child is exposed to this, let's say you got a 10- or 11-year-old who's exposed to this, that somehow it's going to rock their faith, somehow it's going to shake them up psychologically. You can dramatically minimize that if you if you acknowledge that it happens, and you acknowledge in God's overall scheme of things that He will sort it out. Parents will say to me, Well, my son saw that. He saw that on a scroll. He saw it. And you say, honey, that's why life is so valuable. Because the taking of a life is very ugly. It's not like anything somebody would see on the movies. It's not like anything somebody would see in a video game. The real thing is very, very ugly. And that's why God says so much, don't do it. Keep your examples, your explanation short and to the point. You don't have to get into ugly, nitty-gritty details. You know, you got a little kid, it's eight, nine, ten, eleven. Enough is enough. You explain it to them and you tell them this is why it is so important to do it God's way.

Sheila Nonato: 7:24

And uh so for the older children, uh, let's say teens, um, if they're having a hard time processing, like would you suggest they write it down? They talk to the priest. Um, you know, if let's say the parent is also struggling to comprehend, how do you actually explain evil, right? So if you're struggling to comprehend and the teen is also struggling, going through different emotions, um what, yeah, do do they, is it okay to write it out? Um, and then yeah, go to spiritual direction. Um, what do you suggest?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 7:56

Much of the time that's not necessary. I would suggest this. When you use the word struggling to process it, what you're really saying, Sheila, is that they got a whole bunch of ideas and questions in their head that they don't have answers for, that don't make any sense to them. Why would such a good man in so many people's eyes be at age 31 snuffed out? Well, you ask them, what do you think about this? What do you think it means? Does that affect how you see God? Does that affect how you see other people? Do you have a question about this on why God would seemingly stand by and allow it to happen? I want to know what's inside your head. That's the way you got to do it. Kind of like a kind of like a lay psychologist. Somebody comes into my office, I gotta find out why they think the way they think. Even if I think it's ridiculous, even if I think they're all twisted up in their thinking, I've at least got to ask enough questions and explore it enough to know, okay, this is what's disturbing them. This is what they don't have an answer for, this is how they're interpreting this that doesn't fit with reality. And that's what you do with the older kids. You say, okay, I want to know how you see this. How do you understand it? What doubts does it raise for you about anything? About God? About people, about violence? I want to know. Only, Sheila, when you know what's going on percolating inside their head, can you actually address it in some way?

Sheila Nonato: 9:40

Okay. Uh well, thank you for that. And I was listening to your radio show. You had to address this issue, and you were talking about how your daughter had posted something on Facebook, and somebody she didn't know, a total stranger, didn't agree with her, um, just posting the thing, and actually told her such um, I can't even believe somebody would say this to a person they don't know, but said your daughter is pregnant, and she said she hoped her baby would die because she had a positive uh post about Charlie Kirk. How did we get to this situation? Like we're supposed to advance as a society uh with all of our technological advancements, right? We should be like super intelligent.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 10:21

Progressive ideas say. I don't call them progressive, I call them regressive because they're throwing off wisdom of the millennia, they're throwing off the wisdom of God. There's a complex brew in effect right now. A couple of major themes. One, as a society decides that God is irrelevant, that his way of doing things, his way of wanting us to live our lives, is is really an impingement. It doesn't belong here. He's unsophisticated, even if he exists. So the more that takes hold of a society, as G.K. Chesterton said, when people stop believing in God, it's not that they believe in nothing, they believe in anything. The second thing is something has got to fill that hole. What is going to decide how society thinks morally? Well, in our case, this is no longer a farm in 1880. This is no longer a village in 1115 in Africa. This is a society that says we've got all kinds of technology that will swamp your brain and will tell you how to think and give you information that may or may not be true. But one thing is certain, we got a whole lot of people telling you this is a better way to think and to believe and to act than what we used to think even 60 years ago, 80 years ago.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 11:55

Y ou never had school shootings 80 years ago. They were unheard of. It was impossible. When I used to go pick up my friends at the airport, I walked all the way to the gate. I just stood at the gate and waited for them to come in. My mom and dad told me how they never ever locked their doors. They left their keys in their cars. They never had their cars stolen or carjacked. So as society leaves God's ways, the stuff that fills in can be very evil. And there are vulnerable people who absorb that. It's very common. It doesn't surprise me as a psychologist at all. I was not shocked by what that woman said to my daughter. It was hideous, but it didn't shock me because I've come to sort of expect that this is what you get when you say God doesn't matter. His ways are for a pastime when people were unsophisticated, and we now know how to live better morally, sexually, and every other way. This is what's happening.

Sheila Nonato: 13:01

And I guess I wanted to um bring up also your book, "Raising Upright Kids in an Upside-down World," which is what we're talking about right now, and specifically your chapter on phone smart. So smartphones are supposed to make us smarter, but is it really? So um, you have some tips, and actually, my children don't. I'm not trying to be uh on a moral high ground here. My children don't have cell phones just because we stop right there, Sheila.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 13:28

Yeah, you just illustrated, you illustrated a classic example of what good parents are doing to second guess themselves. First of all, you did a wise thing. You said, "I'm not going to give my kids a smartphone at the age that the culture is giving it, okay?" You apologized. You said, "I'm not trying to be the moral high ground." Wait a minute.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 13:55

This has nothing to do with moral high ground. You made a decision that is yours to make as a mother and is yours to make as a faith-filled Christian, even though the culture doesn't understand it and they outvote you 95 to 5. Irrelevant. You've decided this is not a good thing for my kids and their soul, especially at a younger age. But yet you kind of said, What? And I had one mom say this to me, Sheila. She said, "Well, if it were up to me," and I said, "Stop right there. Who's it up to?" Oh, I know, but but she's 13. Every one of her friends has one. All of them have one. That's how they communicate, that's how they're social. I go, would you think it's a good thing? No. Okay. Your daughter's not growing up in a vacuum. She's not going to have friends because she doesn't have this thing attached to her in the palm of her hand that can put her in touch with the whole world, good, bad, ugly, indifferent, and vile. But see parents of faith apologize. See how easily it it it shapes even us?

Sheila Nonato: 15:12

Well, I'm uh to be honest, I'm feeling pressure to to do it because everyone around me has it. And how do you how do they communicate? Um, how do they have friends? Uh, you know, how do they yeah, sorry? Let's do a little simple test. Sure.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 15:29

When I ask parents, what's the number one reason you gave your child a smartphone that basically has contact with the whole universe? What do you think they say?

Sheila Nonato: 15:40

Safety.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 15:41

Yes, absolutely. I gotta know where she is and what she's doing. There are several answers to that, and I talk about it in the book. The first answer is if she's with any group of kids, every single one of them has a smartphone. So there's no problem with having a smartphone. Everybody around her has a smartphone. Okay, that's one. Two, say, you're right, honey. You're right. Safety issue. I want you to be able to get a hold of me. Here's a flip phone. Oh, oh, get that thing away from me. Oh, no, I'm not gonna use that, mom. That's so lame. No, and everybody's gonna look at me like I'm some kind of weirdo. You see what I mean? It's not a safety issue. It's a I want the latest and the greatest. There's the difference. That's the test. Just offer him a smartphone. Or offer them a phone that only has three numbers: you, the police, and pizza. See if they go, oh, great. Thank you so much, Mom. This is wonderful. They'll refuse it. Every time they'll refuse it. Because that's really not the issue. The issue is I want this. You know, the irony here, Sheila. 10, 12 years ago, I was screaming from the top of the mountain, don't do this. It's too early. It's too early. What's what do you think the average age of a kid getting a smartphone now is?

Sheila Nonato: 16:59

I was just reading your book, so I think four. I don't know, four and up.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 17:03

They're on devices and four.

Sheila Nonato: 17:05

Okay. Maybe nine? I don't know.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 17:07

And ten. Yeah. Between nine and now, if your kid's 13 and doesn't have one, oh, oh my gosh. You're you're in the bottom 5%, maybe 2%. Okay. So back then I said, this is gonna radically change how your kids look at life, how they think, how they look at relationships, what they think morals are, where they go, radically so. And I felt like, okay, this is some guy's opinion. All right, big deal. He's got some letters after his name. Now the research is coming out in waves, Sheila. In waves, that we have allowed this technology to misshape our children. One of the sadder things in my office, a parent will be sitting with a teenager and say, I don't know who that is. We didn't raise him that way.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 18:05

And I'll say, I believe you, I believe you didn't, but I think you underestimated what did. Because all too often, if you go with the flow of the culture, now I'm not saying you have to be Amish or quasi-amish, okay? Don't mishear me. But what I'm saying is don't let the culture dictate when you're going to say, okay, the pressure's getting too intense. All right, I'll relent. Here's another thing I've noticed, and I think I addressed this in the book. I don't remember, She. I used to say back in the old days when I wrote my first book that parents are parenting wanting to be psychologically correct.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 18:46

And you hear that all the time. Well, what should I have said? Is that what I should have done? Is this the best thing to do in this situation? How would you handle this, Dr. Ray? So there's this question of am I being psychologically correct in raising my kids? What I've noticed now, Sheila, with the onslaught of technology, parents are parenting also in fear. "If I don't give her a smartphone, is she gonna get deceptive? Is she gonna resent me? Is she gonna hate me? Is she gonna hate me? Is she gonna go to her friends and I live tell them I live with a psycho parent who's a weirdo religious freak who doesn't let me have a normal life?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 19:35

Even her mother doesn't agree with her. My grandma doesn't agree with her. My grandma thinks she's stunting my social development." So now the parents are like, I don't want to mess up. I don't want my kid to hate me. And I always give them this option. Say, okay, let's say that your kid doesn't understand your reasoning, your kid disagrees with your reasoning, and your kid is even going to do anything she can.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 20:00

And I use she a lot because smartphones affect girls more than boys. I said, she's gonna do anything she can to get around you. Her friends will give her a phone. One of my daughters, we took five phones away from her because she was 16 and she was mishandling it. And so when we took it, her friends would give her another one. Then we'd have to catch that one. And we took it, friends would give her another one. So which is worse? Your child resisting what you're doing with this smartphone decision, or how the smartphone will shape who she is, which is worse. I've also said this to parent Sheila. If my kids go astray, I want to be able to say it's because they had to go through me than because I stepped aside.

Sheila Nonato: 20:58

Um yeah, those are powerful words, powerful advice. And um, just to go back to your book, um, you s you wrote, and a privilege, so a phone is not a birthright, it is a privilege, and a privilege must be earned. Uh so in terms of, you know, how do you how does a kid earn a cell phone? There was, I I was joking to my husband, the only time they're gonna get a cell phone is if they're a CEO of their own company. Because what do you need it for, right? Um didn't yeah. So, but yeah, is there an age, an appropriate? Is there like scientific studies that say this is the right age to give a phone? Can you help us uh decide this?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 21:36

There's plenty of scientific studies that say this is the wrong age to give a phone, that's for sure. Okay. I would say this: the question is not age, the question is trustworthiness. You see how your child conducts him or herself across a whole range of situations. You know what they're like, you know how they think, you know how they view things, you know how morally they are solid. You know these things. You're the best judge of that of anybody, more than any shrink because you live with that child. That's how you gauge trustworthiness.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 22:14

Now, when you decide, okay, we're going to go with the phone. One, it's a trial. It's not, it's not totally determinate. It is a trial. Two, put all kinds of safety mechanisms on that phone. I saw a recent survey that said over 50% of parents have absolutely no safety conditions on that phone. You can pair that phone to your phone so that anything that goes out or in to your child's phone, you know. You see it on your phone. You could do that. It's easily done.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 22:57

You can give a phone that has access to no apps. You can do that. There's all kinds of things you can do. So at age 15, she's holding a smartphone in her hand, but her friends don't have to know that she can't access all the stuff she wants to access. Do that. Now, here's the question: What do you do if the phone is misused? If, in fact, there are texts, there are language used uh in the extreme, there's uh sexuality stuff all over it, and I can't tell you how many parents get burned with that one, okay, because they think, well, my kids were all growing up on a faith-field Catholic family, and she's not gonna do that kind of stuff.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 23:38

Oh yeah? Come on. It's not that she's a bad kid, it's just the temptation is right here in her face. Okay, so given that, the parent says, Well, how long should I take it? And I say, that's not the question. That's not the question. There's no manual that says, Well, if they do this two weeks, if they do this four weeks, if they do No. The question is, should she have had it to begin with? You made an error in judgment. You thought I I thought she could handle it. I thought this was something she would have with her responsibly. I find out different. She cheated on a test with it. She had it in her room at night until two in the morning. She's been texting some guy that is bad news, but now she thinks she's in love with him because they've been texting back and forth for two months. Do you know what percentage of boys ages 11 to 19, Sheila, have come across pornography?

Sheila Nonato: 24:38

50?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 24:40

90.

Sheila Nonato: 24:41

90.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 24:42

90.

Sheila Nonato: 24:43

Oh, wow. So like inside the home or outside the home?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 24:47

Either on their device or the computer. Oh, wow.

Sheila Nonato: 24:50

Okay.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 24:51

So so given that, oh, maybe at a friend's house, okay. So so given that, the question becomes, what kind of what kind of conditions am I gonna put on this thing? And these are conditions, Sheila, that the culture is not putting on them. So you're gonna feel isolated. You're gonna feel like a weirdo. All right, you already feel like a weirdo. You homeschool, you're already a weirdo, okay? So you're gonna be a weirdo, be a weirdo all the way. (Friends, Dr. Ray has got jokes lol)

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 25:20

But here's what you have in your favor. There is research, there are surveys and follow-up studies that say parents who raise their kids in a faith-filled home have a much higher chance of those kids being stable, responsible, moral adults. Even if there's bouncing along the way. So that's the one thing you look for.

Sheila Nonato: 25:53

Um, and so I guess it sort of lends itself to you touched upon, you know, can controls on the phone, um, when you you should give it, if you want to, if you're going down that route. Um discipline. So I forgive me if I if I butcher your quote. I think you said lack of discipline is like child abuse. Now, what what do you mean exactly? Can you explain to us? For those who haven't heard your amazing talks.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 26:18

Here's the full core. Here's the full quote. "Discipline without love may be harsh. Love without discipline is child abuse." And the reason for that is because the world is going to hurt that child. If your standards are loose and fuzzy and not enforced, and a lot of your a lot of your listeners and viewers, Sheila, have very high standards. Their standards are higher than the cultures. Here's where they struggle in enforcing those standards. If they have a standard that you you are not to be disrespectful, that's a standard, absolutely. There's no disrespect in this home. But in fact, they're loose about enforcing that standard. Y

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 27:03

ou know, your daughter has just snotted off to you. What'd you do about it? Well, I told her we don't talk that way. I got that. What'd you do about it? Well, she knows. She knows we don't allow disrespect. Yes. What'd you do about it? Well, I gave her a warning. What'd you do about it? You see what I'm saying? They're not enforcing it. So given that, you don't discipline now, the world will later. The world will hurt your kid. Judge, landlord, army sergeant, police officer, employer, a wife. Ooh, that's a rough one. Given that, I don't want the world to discipline my kids. I want to do it because I love them.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 27:40

And I hug them and kiss them afterwards, and I talk about it with them afterwards. The world's not going to do that. Some employer's not going to say, well, you know, you've been late three days in a row, and apparently you must be tired. So I'll tell you what you do. If you're going to be late, just call me. So this, you know, this way I can find somebody else until you're ready to come in, and that would be good, or I'll cover for you. That's not going to happen. There's going to be a consequence after a while. You're fired. Get out of here. Well, that's world discipline. That's certainly a lot harsher than sitting in a chair because you kicked over your brother's blocks.

Sheila Nonato: 28:19

So by discipline, you mean if you say something, you can't have this until you finish your chores. And if they don't, they don't do it, there must be a consequence. Is that what you're saying?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 28:31

The number discipline problem I deal with, Sheila, and this became very apparent early in my career. When you read stuff about discipline, and I've always maintained this, the average expert is really uneasy with discipline. They don't like it. They think a child can be reasoned with, they think a child will understand. If you get down on their level and you explain it, the child's gonna go, oh, father, I've been so blind. Of course, you make such perfect sense. Why didn't you just explain it to me that way? Love ya. They're kids, they don't understand three-quarters of this stuff. So what I say to parents is, okay, if you have just an operating simple little house rule, you can't mistreat a sibling.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 29:20

You can't. You can't call her names, you can't torment her, you can't look at her like you're an idiot. You know, you can't do that. You're not allowed to mistreat a sibling. That's a rule. All right. So now you say, well, here's what we're gonna do about this. When you do this, let's say the kid's 11, you're gonna sit down, you're gonna write 20 nice things about your sister. Make them up. I do with your father. And the kid looks at you like, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. That's ridiculous. Not doing it. Okay, now we're. What do you do as a parent? Do you yell and scream? Do you argue? Do you threaten?

Sheila Nonato: 30:05

What do you do?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 30:07

Here's a technique I developed many, many, many, many years ago when a woman came into my office. She had a 14-year-old son. And this kid, she had allowed him to get away with a lot for a long time. And he was now to the point where if she tried to discipline him, he was going to fight her. He was going to resist it. He was going to argue. He was going to threaten. He was just going to flat out refuse. So I said, Well, okay, you decide what you think is a good consequence for that particular type of misbehavior.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 30:40

When he doesn't do it, immediately, immediately, he is shut down. Every single privilege that he has at your hands, whatever it is outside, friends, perks, privileges, favorite hoodie, dessert, everything. And parents don't realize how much they control. Shuts down until you get your consequence. And she said, Wow. She goes, you know what that sounds like? I go, what's that? She said, that that sounds like a blackout. I said, oh, what a great name. And that's what I suggest to parents. If that little five-year-old, well, your little guy there, Sheila, how how old was he right before the podcast here? He's he's five. Five, okay. So he does something. What's his name, honey? James. James. I got a James.

Sheila Nonato: 31:31

James Michael Raymond, actually.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 31:33

Oh, why'd you pay? Put my name third. Should have been at least maybe. Sorry. Okay. So James does something. Whatever it is, some little scrap kid thing. And you say, okay, James, go to the corner, please. And he looks at you like, who are you talking to? You talking to me? I don't think so. I see your mouth moving, but I don't hear no words coming out. So what are you gonna do, Sheila? Are you gonna go? I said, go to the corner. And he looks at you. He goes to the corner, but after 32 seconds, he comes out. James, get back in that corner. So see, that's the kind of stuff that makes parents go to confession every two hours. You know? Bless me, father. Um, before I had children, I was pretty nice. Now I don't think I'm pretty or nice. So what happens is you get angry, you get frustrated, you argue, you threaten. James leaves the corner, you don't say a word. As a matter of fact, when you told him to go to the corner and he refused, you don't say a word. Every single thing that he asks for or he has, after that, you look at him with a puzzled look on your face as if to say, Oh no, James, you you don't get your stuffed animal, those are gone. I uh haven't got my corner yet. Oh no, James, we're gonna drive through McDonald's and I'm gonna get a Sunday, you're gonna watch. I haven't gotten my corner yet. Oh no, James, you can't go outside. I haven't gotten my corner yet. I'll tell you what, Sheila, for the little kids, say the kids under ten.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 33:25

If that doesn't work in a day or two, so that all you have to say is, James, go to the corner, please. Go to the corner, please. Five words. That's it. Works every time. Parents will say to me, Well, um, yeah, but what what kind of consequence should I use? I go, that's up to you. Use what you want. You know, if you got a 10-year-old kid, they make him write sentences. You got a 12-year-old, make him write an essay of apology. That's the one the kids refuse, by the way. That is the one that if you have a teenager and you come up with this essay of apology, 300-word handwritten essay of apology, they look at you like, who you've been listening to? You can't think of this on your own. You talk to that Roy Ginoldi dude or whatever, Dr. Evil, whatever that guy's name is. Shut him down. Shut him down. It works really well. You're not being mean. You're not you're not smashing a gnat with a sledgehammer. It is mean to fight with a kid. That's what's mean. The consequence isn't mean. I just asked you to write an essay of apology to your sister for calling her that name. That's not mean. That says, look, you can't do this, and I know I can't reason you into not doing it, so I'm gonna put some consequences on it. Okay, that's how the world operates.

Sheila Nonato: 34:58

Well, Dr. Ray, I have to confess it is not a confession. But a few, maybe last year. Uh, so there's this whole thing with lighthouse parenting, supposedly, combining nurturing, loving, protecting, communicating. Um, be a guide to your children and swoop in when you need to, but let them grow. But I kind of fell to this expert mentality last maybe a few months ago. Um, so I have two older children, and when I said time out, you sit there, okay. But I have the last one. Um, he's the little one, you know. And anyway, I felt really sad, like he was crying. So I said, time out. And you know what I did, uh, which I don't do anymore. But I sat down with him during the time. I know it's terrible. Anyway, I sat down because he wouldn't do it. He just cry, cry, cry, wouldn't do it.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 35:46

See, you just said he refused. Yeah, you did. Tried to place a little simple piece of discipline on him. Nothing hurtful, nothing nasty. Go sit in a chair. Oh, for I'm sitting in the chair right now. Okay, I don't feel bad at all. So he wouldn't do it. He looked at you like, no. So what'd you do? You said, Well, okay, I gotta do gentle parenting. I gotta do lighthouse parenting. I'll go over and I'll sit with him. And then he'll come to understand why we're doing this. And after I sit with him about five times, he'll go over and sit by himself. And I want to go, you people with those kind of theories, have you ever had a real kid? Because the average kid, after you sitting with him five times, is now going to expect this is the way it's done. I'm not gone over here unless you sit with me. And furthermore, they get to a point where it's like, you know what? I'm not gone even if you do sit with me. Because I don't want to go. The okay. My dear, are you a Christian parent?

Sheila Nonato: 36:53

I am I'm striving to be.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 36:55

Yeah. Now, what is the theme of Genesis about human nature?

Sheila Nonato: 37:04

Um well, we we can fall, but God redeems us.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 37:10

Okay. But the but the the state of the human is fallen, correct? So mental parenting and lighthouse parenting assumes that the kids are not going to be willful. They're not going to be stiff-necked. All you have to do is gently guide, speak reasonably, reflect the right eye messages, use active listening, give choices, set up win-win scenarios, and the child will just naturally go with the flow of parenthood. And I'll tell you, my office is filled with parents who come in because they go, We tried that. My kid is defiant. And I go, Yeah, you know why? Why? Because he's a kid. That's what they do. We had 10 kids, you know that, Sheila. And my 10 children are adopted. And my 10 children, some of them had bad, very, very bad histories. Okay, crack prostitute, parents, abuse in the womb, drugs in the womb, alcohol in the womb, not pretty stuff. Which, of course, would make them harder to raise. Okay, there would be some neurological issues going on. Do you think that we called any of our children the most common adjective now leveled at kids, which is strong willed, mind of her own, stubborn streak, defiant, six gone on sixteen, high maintenance, challenging child. Do you think we use those words? No, no. You know why not? Here's the reason why. Very simple reason why not. Certainly, I had some kids tougher to raise than others, of course. They all have different temperaments. And I had some kids stronger willed than siblings. None of them was stronger willed than their mother. There's the difference. When she said go to the corner when they were three years old, they better go to the corner. Or they'll find out all the consequences that are going to happen to them. And as a consequence, after about two months of that, they never refused the corner again. Or as other discipline kicked in, same thing. Now, did they pull scrap? Oh my gosh, yes. Some of my kids would eat your little guy for lunch, okay? They pulled all kinds of stunts. The question becomes for most parents you expect the stunts, you expect the misbehavior. That's kidhood. Hey, that's adulthood. I mean, I pull all kinds of stunts on God. I've been misbehaving all my life to poor God. You know, how come I haven't learned yet? But the difference is when you don't have authority, that's when it gets ugly. That's when you say, I wanted a whole bunch of kids and I stopped at three because it was just so frustrating. Yeah. Because they fight you to brush their teeth, they fight you to come in for supper, they fight you to turn the TV off, they fight you because they don't want to turn the computer video game off. Everything becomes a battle. And then you think this isn't fun. I don't like this. Well, if you recognize two things. Kids are gonna do this stuff. Fallen human nature, self-centered, stiff-necked. Two, if you have authority, you can you can stop it. You can keep it from becoming an ugly, daily, fractious fight. That's the that's the difference. That's the difference.

Sheila Nonato: 41:06

When you mention authority, I'm thinking about, you know, there are these, again, you were talking about theories, experts, um, how we're supposed to be friends with our kids. And uh authority sounds so harsh and uh maybe even mean. But I feel like parents have given up, you know, some parents may not notice that they've given up the authority and handed it over to the culture and to their friends, to their peers. Is this correct? Is that what we're seeing now?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 41:37

You're right on. You're right on there, Sheila. Here's a simple authority test I give to my clients. They'll say to me, and I get a lot of folks that are faith-filled Christians, faith-filled Catholics, and they'll say to me, one of their struggles is they're out of sync with the culture. Okay, the culture is much more morally loose than they want to raise their children. So they say, we have high standards. I don't understand why we're struggling with this discipline. And and you know, we've got friends and people telling us that the reason we're struggling is because our standards are too high, that that our kids are going to rebel against our high standards, and we got to relax our standards. I mean, that's a common message thrown to parents with high standards. I'll address that in a second. I ask them this. If you were to tell this child that was mean, please go to the corner. Or that was disrespectful. Go to bed, your night's over. Or I can't believe you did that. Um you're grounded for three days, and I'm gonna write a nice, I want you to write a nice 500-word essay on on why that was so wrong, and then you're gonna have double chores, and I'll I'll give you the chores. I'll say, if you were to do that, what would happen? Now, when you don't have authority, nine times out of ten, the parents are gonna say, a fight, refusal, argument, I'd have to scream and yell and become a lunatic, threaten, sneakiness, basic resistance. I say, well then then no matter how high your standards are, you don't have authority. Now they didn't do that on purpose, it just slipped away because they thought they could reason with the child, they could tell him you don't call your sister that, and he'll absorb it. He'll just go after about the fifth time you say you don't call your sister that, he'll go, maybe I shouldn't call my sister that. That's not a nice thing. Now, he may realize it's not a nice thing because he's a decent kid, but when his sister irritates him, that goes by the wayside.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 43:50

He's gonna call her that because she just did something he didn't like. All right, so how do we stop this? I talked about high standards breeds rebellion. I was in a meeting one time, and there was this counselor type in there, Sheila, and she said, Well, we all know that if a parent's standards are too high, the kids are gonna rebel. Now, it was everything I could do to shut my mouth. I wanted to say, no, we don't all know that. And that is a ridiculous cliche. And I want to say, okay, what are too high standards? Well, I don't want you to mistreat your brother. Oh, that's kind of a high standard. I tell you what, I'll tell you what. You're allowed to cuss at him twice during the week and one kick. Okay? I mean, I don't want to have a standard too high. I'd like you to make your bed every day. And until your bed's made, you don't have any privileges. That's a pretty high standard.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 44:53

Okay. Uh, you can leave it unmade on Mondays and Wednesdays. And Saturdays, if you sleep in, you can leave it unmade too. I don't want to have a high standard. You see what I mean? Every standard is up there. No, we don't reach it. Of course we don't reach it. Nobody reaches it. But you have to have the standard. Here's the other thing. A parent will say to me, Can you be too strict? I'll say, Well, not really. You can be too harsh. You can be too mean. But what is too strict in the context of love? Sheila, I have no doubt that little James of yours, you would die for in two minutes. You love that kid up one side and down the other, and you never realize what kids can do to your heart.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 45:41

So you totally love him and you sacrifice yourself for him, and you give him so many things every day. So it's not a matter of, gee, I have to show you how much I appreciate you, son. He sees it. You hug him, you kiss him, you put food in front of him, you take him places, you tickle him, you have fun with him, you laugh with him, you do all kinds of stuff. All right, that is good loving parenthood. He's not going to rebel because you got discipline. Because you say, James, you're gone to bed early. Because today, when we were at grandma's, do you remember what you did? Yeah, I know. I grabbed it and I threw it on purpose. Yeah, son. We get home, you're gone to bed. That's not mean. That's basically saying, James, you can't do that. But see, we we don't do that anymore, Sheila, because the experts and all their theories have said, well, I think James needs to understand. Uh, maybe he can talk with grandma, and then when you come home, you can talk with him. Yes, that's all well and good, but it doesn't take the place of discipline. After you do all that, is there going to be a consequence or not?

Sheila Nonato: 46:58

And uh, I guess what you're saying, everything from discipline to being, you know, taking up your role as a parent, as an authority in the life of your children, it's all rooted in love and also in faith. And I am I'm truly inspired by your story of adopting 10 children. Can you give us a glimpse into, you know, how did that come to be? Um, it seems like such an act of love and self-sacrifice. How did the option of adoption, the blessing of adoption, come to your family?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 47:29

I was getting killed by taxes. So I figured I needed some tax deductions. And one of the things that the agencies don't tell you is if you adopt in December, you still get the tax deduction for the whole year. So they pretty much pay for themselves that first year. Long about kid number three, two things kicked in. One, at that time, now my kids are older now, they're all adults. But at that time, if you were willing to adopt a cross-race, black, biracial, and you're a white person, I asked a lady one time in an adoption agency said, if I want to adopt a little black baby boy, how long would I have to wait? She said, What are you doing tomorrow? So we realized if we adopt a cross-race, I got three white, two Hispanic, two biracial, three black. You can adopt tomorrow. And that's what happened with us. Okay, so it just kind of kept happening.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 48:25

But the second factor was my wife said this," Ray, if not us, who? We have a solid marriage. We have the resources, we've got a good extended family." My wife's a stay-at-home mom. Um, and I she says, and I said, "and I'm a psychologist." She goes, "Yeah, well, that'll hurt us, Ray, but we'll leave that aside for right now." Okay. So that's kind of how it happened. It was kind of like eating potato chips, you know. You can always, you can always think you can eat one more until you puke. I think that's sort of what happened.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 49:01

And uh, I remember kid number 11. I was so moved, I saw a really sad movie about a kid that that just lived in very vile circumstances, and I said, we got to adopt again. So I went home, did all the stuff he had to do. I paid the fees, and I went to all the, I had to go to all the parenting classes. I did. They were asking me questions in this class, you know. So at the end of all that, my wife says, Ray, let's go out to eat. Oh, okay. See, this is code word for we got to talk. And we gotta talk is code word for let me tell you what's wrong with you. Okay, so that said, we went out to eat and she said, if you want to adopt another child, I'm willing. But I have to tell you, I'm getting pretty close to my load limit. And I, Sheila, being a very sensitive, nurturant, affirming psychologist type, I realized at that point I needed to say something that would comfort her. So I said, Oh, you wimp. I work for a living. Actually, the truth be told, at that point we had 10 under 12. And I said, "Honey, you're the boss. You're the one who's doing 98% of this. Uh, I just write parenting books. That's all I do. You do the actual nitty-gritty of it." I said, "Y ou veto it, it's over." And that's kind of how it ended. And I had the chocolate drizzle cake to comfort myself.

Sheila Nonato: 50:33

I just, you know, to be honest, I was reading your book, laughing, and then the talks. Uh what is the role? Like, I really it's so effective the way you deliver your message, and you know, sprinkling it with bits of humorous stories. Like, what is the role? Because parenting can be hard, right? Especially lack of sleep in the early days. Uh, and then the teens, you know, the mood changes and all the peer pressure and stuff like that, all the other issues. But parenting seems to be like people see it's a as a drudgery. They don't want to be, they want to be child-free now, right? But isn't there supposed to be fun? Like parenting should be fun, right? There should be a little bit of humour. You should have fun with your kids. Um, how did you how did you do that with your own family? And how can we do that now in this age, this digital age, with all the distractions, right?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 51:18

Part of it is yeah, you don't over-psychologize. So many parents will come to me and they'll describe something their kid did, and then they're just in agony over it. And I'll say, "Okay, so he stole a matchbox car from the drugstore and you found it. What are you telling yourself?""Well, I can't believe he did that because he knows how we feel about stealing, and I'm thinking my parenting isn't getting through to him, and I don't know why he would do it." See, they're just and I'd say, "Okay, your kid stole a matchbox toy. Okay, he brings it back, he apologizes, and then you put some consequence on it. A heavy one, but you put it on her, and then you move on with life."

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 51:58

See, we we overthink this, we overanalyze it. We got the parents, their heads are spinning. That's what makes parenting in in many respects so much more difficult. And again, the culture's not on your side anymore. It's not. So you have to be more vigilant and you have to be stronger, and you can't get bullied by other people who tell you you're a throwback Neanderthal, you faith-filled weirdo trying to raise your kid according to God and Jesus' standards. You you if you're bullied like that. Okay, I'll share with you a simple story. About five years into our marriage, my wife and I decided we didn't want any kids. And the hard part of that, Sheila, was finding a time to tell the kids that. You don't get it.

Sheila Nonato: 52:53

I muted myself. Um, well, you know, I have a friend who has 15 kids. So yeah, and she's younger than me. So she Carissa Douglas, her name. I was gonna give a shout-out to her. She's uh an author on Scepter Press. Um Little Douglings. Anyway, she um she's also sings, sounds like Jewel. I don't know if anybody remembers Jewel, but um, but yeah, she is also an example to me that uh, you know, it's hard, but with the grace of God and the help of your husband, you can do it. Um, and I also just finally talking about you were talking about uh the influence of the culture, and now we have these influencers. I mean, we also have Charlie Kirk, who gave us a positive view of influencing because he always pointed to Jesus Christ. How do we keep our children or show our children that the real influencers, God and the parents? How do you how do we do that? Any any practical tips for us and how to how to keep them in the faith?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 53:55

You're gonna, every day, faith is gonna infuse your life. You're gonna pray before meals, you're gonna pray at night, you're gonna bless them, you're gonna pray a family rosary, you're gonna have activities at church, you're gonna do these things. Those are all great. And what you're doing is you're establishing an alternative way to live as opposed to the culture. Now, here is the sad reality, Sheila.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 54:18

Never before in human history have so many people raised in the faith abandoned it, leaving it, rejecting it, being hostile toward it, coming up with all kinds of justifications why their child rearing experience was horrible. Okay, never before. This has never happened. In all of human history, the main influences were the tribe, the family, and the clan. That was it. Your little tiny circle is what influenced. Not anymore. Not anymore. The technology, if you don't watch, can just swamp your house like a fog and take over and shape your kid. All right.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 54:58

So that's a reality. You got to be vigilant. You definitely have to be more vigilant. You didn't have to be this vigilant 100 years ago. The culture, in many respects, thought more like you did. Not now, not people who take their faith seriously. Secondly, you can't be scared, you can't parent scared. You can't say, if I make that decision, my kids are gonna hate me, my kid is gonna run away, my kid is gonna be deceptive, my kid is going to go by you start parenting like that and you don't make any good judgments.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 55:28

You don't parent by your kids' reaction, and you don't parent by the culture's reaction. You parent by good judgment. Now, let's leave your viewers with this. One of the most common things I now get as a psychologist is parents who have raised their children and watched their children leave the faith. That's such a common phenomenon now. It's not unusual for me to say, to hear from somebody, we had five children and only two are left in the faith. I ran up against uh a good family just recently. They had nine kids between them. None left in the faith. One kinda, kinda sorta. A couple of them flirting around the edges. So what's going on out there? I mean, were these bad parents? Did they just simply not impart the faith?

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 56:19

Well, they did what they thought they should do. And sacraments and perhaps Catholic school, and they thought that was enough. Generally, it's not anymore. But here's what I do to logically take away the guilt of parents who think they failed. What did I miss? Maybe I should have prayed the Roserie in Aramaic while I knelt on broken glass and levitated. You know, what's wrong with me here? You do me, you do me this exercise, Sheila. You help me out on this. I'm gonna ask you a series of questions, and I'm gonna prove logically that anybody listening, hearing, watching your podcast, who feels guilty about the way their kids left the faith, even though, as parents, they tried their very best to raise them in the faith. They were human, they made their mistakes, and maybe they look back on it and say, I would have done this, this, and this, and this different. Okay, we're all in that boat. I'm gonna take their guild away. You ready?

Sheila Nonato: 57:21

Yes, yes.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 57:23

Is there a God?

Sheila Nonato: 57:24

Yes.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 57:25

Is Christ God?

Sheila Nonato: 57:27

Yes.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 57:27

Was he sinless?

Sheila Nonato: 57:29

Yes.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 57:30

Could he perform miracles?

Sheila Nonato: 57:32

Absolutely.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 57:33

Did he have a perfect understanding of human nature?

Sheila Nonato: 57:36

Yes.

Dr. Ray Guarendi: 57:39

Could he get most people to follow him? No. Oh, so I think that these parents must think they're better at this than the God man. I tease him. Can you do America? Can you even do a crummy card track? Our Lord Himself couldn't get most people to follow him. He was God. So we think there's some kind of spiritual formula that we just didn't apply right. No. No, you do your best to raise them as God said, and you recognize that's a scary world out there. And one good thing, I always tell this to parents you laid down an alternative. You expose them to an alternative. So as they move into their 20s and their 30s and they realize they don't want your alternative, and they find out that their alternative and the culture's alternative isn't working so well. Maybe they'll look back. And I think this is one explanation why you're seeing more and more young people turn toward the faith.

Sheila Nonato: 58:50

Well, I'm truly inspired by your story, uh, Dr. Guarendi, and for coming on and helping us mothers and parents to uh navigate this kind of difficult, new, um, and exciting, I guess, world of the digital age that, you know, for for the forces of good, we can evangelize through technology. But unfortunately, there are also the sort of negative aspects of it that you are have been helping us navigate through today. And I encourage um our listeners, our viewers to um go to your website, drray.com. I'll put it in the show notes. Raising upright kids in an upside down world, amazing. So many books that you can choose from and learn from. And I am my son's gonna say goodbye. Say goodbye to Dr. Ray. Thank you so much. God bless, God bless your family. Thank you so much. Bye. Thank you very much, Sister St. Christ, for joining us this week. And if you're looking for something to read, Dr. Ray, a spiritual reading, Dr. Ray has a new book called Drama-Free Discipline. I'm actually looking forward to reading that as well. And um, for our next Episode, I am also very honoured to be telling the story of Camille Mendoza. Camille, who helped to design the logo for Veil and Armour. My sister-in-law Tamara Fernandez Nonato, a gifted artist as well, very gifted, who generously created this logo, the outline of the logo. And Camille finished it for us. And I am very, very honoured that both of them have contributed to this beautiful logo of Our Lady, who is in the in the picture, she is in the painting, she is um pregnant with our Lord, which is very fitting this Advent season. And so I um I urge you to stay tuned for Camille's episode on how grief, grieving with our Lord, helped her to be able to see the cross in the way that Our Lady saw the Cross through a mother's eyes, and how Jesus helped her to heal from the tremendous loss of her sweet child, who is now a precious saint in heaven, Lilo. Take care, friends, and God bless you and your families.