Joshua Medcalf (00:01):

Michelle MacDonald (00:24):

This is our third episode with Joshua Medcalf. Check out the first two if you have a chance. In this conversation, we're going to go deeper into the concept of self-awareness, discussing how it can be both a gift and a challenge. Joshua also explores the significance of choosing joy and embracing resilience even in the face of adversity, and we all need that in joy. I think one thing that keeps coming up again and again, at least as I'm listening to, and I know the literature, the books that you're writing, is self-awareness. Because if we're talking about staying conscious at that inflection point where you're in the heart and you have to make a decision, a choice to stick to the plan and keep going, it requires a certain amount of self-awareness and self-reflection because you have to notice that you're at an inflection point. You have to notice that I'm in the heart. These are the feelings I'm having and this is, this is the next right thing I need to do.

Joshua Medcalf (01:34):

Three things I think that are superpowers and some of the most underrated things in the world. Active listening, reading and self-awareness and the self-awareness piece. Michelle, I wish I had lower levels of self-awareness sometimes because my self-awareness is so high, it's painful. I know what people are thinking about me. I know half the time what they're saying about me. I am dressed very professionally today and I've got all my nice is suit, but my fingernails are still painted.

Michelle MacDonald (02:17):

Oh, hey, we match. Look at that twin.

Joshua Medcalf (02:19):

Yes, we do. I live and act according to the beat of my own drum, and then I have high levels of self-awareness, and so sometimes it sucks because I know what people are saying. I can interpret their looks. I know the whole thing, but it's also a superpower that if you don't have high levels of self-awareness, then you need, once again, you need to hire coaches. You need to have people in your life that don't just tell you what you want to hear. It seems to happen a lot with powerful people. They're surrounded by yes people. It seems to happen a lot in female communities. Yes, girl, oh my God, that looks so great on you. And then they turn around and Oh my God, I can't believe she's wearing that. I would never do that.

(03:27):

There's such a lack of self-awareness that it hurts people so much because if you just understand your strengths and weaknesses, then if you feel like your weakness is something you need to work on, you can work on that. I think it's oftentimes more important to double triple down on your strengths. I suck at 99.9% of stuff in the world, but the stuff that I'm that 0.01%, I know I'm one of the best in the world at what I do, and I put all my energy into that, and then I try and surround myself and higher out to fill my weaknesses.

(04:13):

But the more that you can do things, whether it's exercises, whether it's programs, whether it's sending people surveys about you to figure out, I remember, even though I've had high levels of self-awareness, I would, when I was younger, especially in my twenties, I would send my friends these surveys, I would come across and I would say, can you fill this out for me and don't BS me? Don't tell me what I want to hear. That's not going to help me get better. I want to know the truth. And I think that in many societies we have lost an appreciation for truth and we've lost an appreciation for some of my friends, say with a friend like you who needs enemies because I tell 'em the truth and I've learned how to get better about that and try and tone down my autism and not use a sword when a scalpel will do, and I try and say, are you sure you want my opinion?

(05:23):

Do you really want my help? Because I'm not going to sugarcoat this and I'm going to tell you the truth, and I'm careful with every client. It's different. If I have a client that's a former Navy seal, those conversations are very direct and they are very harsh, and when people hear them, they're like, he lets you talk to him that way. But it's like, well, not only that, that's how he needs to be spoken to. That's his communication style. And the first kid that I worked with, Eric Sheets, when I was living in the closet of the gym, he was a member of the church and he was one of the three kids that I was training, and he used to call me Dr. Payne, and I would always ask him, we never used as a punishment, I would say, do you want to get better or do you want to go home? But if we're here, you're not going to waste my time and I'm not going to waste yours. This is going to be incredibly hard because the only way out is through. And so if you want to be here and we're going to do this, we're going to do the real work. I'm not going to sugarcoat this. And that's missing in a lot of places. In our lot of places in our filter pill, popping instant culture, microwave a

Michelle MacDonald (06:58):

Solution, addicted to trauma, all of that. Oh, I'm overwhelmed. I'm overwhelmed. And it's like, well, did you want this crazy outcome? Did you want this crazy life? Did you want this big life? This is what it looks like. This is what it feels like. And this is what hard, I always say to my clients, everyone says change happens. Change doesn't happen in the comfort zone. It is a slogan on a T-shirt. It's a hashtag as you said, but the real lived experience of it, people fold right away.

Joshua Medcalf (07:29):

Yeah, everybody wants to be great until it's time,

Michelle MacDonald (07:32):

Until it's time to do, look great, be quiet. I love that

Joshua Medcalf (07:34):

One. Everybody wants to die like a monk. Nobody wants to live one. It's all the things that, again, oftentimes, and this is what I love in the simplicity, there's so many simple things that it's like we know what to do, but just because we know to do it doesn't mean we do it. And just because we know to do it doesn't mean we do it every single time. I was speaking in Florida, did this live talk to about 1500, 2000 people and did q and a for two and a half hours, and then afterwards there was a line of about a hundred people that wanted to talk with me, and there was a group that had funded it and put it on that were the wealthy people that were waiting in a room across the street. And I sat for almost two hours talking to every single person that came up to me, and my protege kept trying to pull on me of like, Hey, we need to get over there.

(08:40):

And I was like, nah, I'm good. I'll get there when I get there. The reason why I have this stage, the reason why I have the influence that I have today is because I've always done this. It's because I treat people like people, and if I sign up for something like this, then I'm going to be that guy and I'm not going to talk about the stuff that I talk about and then treat people as if they don't matter afterwards. The one I did in Napa last year, the line was 140 people long. It took three hours of people that wanted me to sign their book, and I sat there, I signed every single book. I looked them in the eyes, I answered any questions they had, and halfway through when the people would get up there, they were like, how and why are you doing this? And they said, oh, well, I signed up for this. This is what it is.

(09:48):

You actually matter, and if you guys want to, if it matters to you, then it matters to me. And then even just from a practical perspective, it's like this is also the smartest savviest business thing that I could do as well. If you look at the business secrets of the trap, this monks one of my favorite books. They just do the basics really, really well, and they thrive in all these businesses that are really competitive businesses, but they operate very differently. And those little things that people oftentimes think, oh, well, I don't have time for this. I don't. Now, I also say, if you were to come up to me when I'm shopping in Whole Foods, maybe I may take some time, and most of the time I would. But I do also understand if I'm at dinner with my partner, I don't want to interrupt that time with her to talk to somebody.

(11:02):

That's my time. But if I have signed up for something, like I said, she's an amazing artist. She was showing at Art Basel and there was an artist that she really respected who was doing a book signing, and we went there and he signed books for about an hour, maybe even 45 minutes, and we were like five people away from being there. And then somebody on his team comes up and is like, oh, yeah, Daniel is going to take a break for a while. And I said, okay, we'll wait. And he's like, no, I think you should disperse. And I was like, no, we'll wait. And he never came back, and it was so mind boggling to me. Number one, I outsell him with books by a hundred x, but it was like you said you were going to do a book signing.

(12:00):

I didn't ask you to do a book signing. Maggie didn't ask you to do a book signing. You told people you were going to do this, and then you're not going to do it, and then you're going to act like you're too important to do it. It's just so mind boggling to me of just do the basics. Those interactions really, really matter. And it may not catch up to him today, it may not catch up to him this year, but at some point that type of stuff is going to catch up to you, like you signed up for this. You knew what this was. If one of the Navy Seals went to one of their instructors and was like, I want to take a break. This is hard. I need more sleep. You knew what it was when you signed up for this.

Michelle MacDonald (12:55):

I think this is where people get how lost, lost with their own relationships and their own internal contracts, and this is where that negotiation happens, where it's your goal. You said you wanted this, but now you're at that inflection point and you're negotiating, and that is the cancer, right? You've got to shift back and focus on getting those basics done and do them the best of your ability. What about Joy? Let's talk about that because I hammer that home with my clients all the time. I love to be one of the most shredded athletes on stage, and I take tremendous pride whether I'm traveling on the plane or if I'm at a restaurant, if you look at the food I'm about to eat, you are going to want to eat it. This is an important lesson that I try to teach my clients because I thread as much joy into the hard things that have to get done because I want to make sure, I want to guarantee that I'm not only going to finish this task, but I will be joyful and I'll be eager to not just do this once, but again and again and again, and each time I do it, I want to get better.

(14:07):

I want to get smarter. I want to get more clever at doing the necessary things. Well, you've got to find the joy, figure out what your process is, what your blueprint is for whatever it is you're trying to achieve, and then find a way to thread as much freaking joy into it as possible. So it's you helping yourself versus you against yourself.

Joshua Medcalf (14:29):

Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you. It's something I need to get better at because I know that it's so important. And I think to me, that kind of goes back a little bit to doubling and tripling down on your strengths. I love being on stage, so that was the thing for me to do. I didn't love writing, and so I did as little of it in the beginning as possible until I learned to love it, and I really tried to double and triple down on the things that I'm great at because we tend to, not always, but we tend to get more joy from the things that we're great at. So let's try and get as great at those things as we possibly can and continue to get better at them, versus constantly just focusing on our weaknesses where there's probably not as much room there for growth as we think.

(15:29):

I can't remember what the study was. It wasn't Daniel Pink. There's another guy that wrote a book on this that how the areas that you actually can grow the most are actually your strengths. It's not really your weaknesses, but the one point I do want to make about what you just said about the negotiation that we have with ourselves, once again, I think that goes back to do you take yourself seriously? Amateurs need inspiration. Professionals show up and do the work no matter what. I flew across the country one time and I had to get a car, get to some small school in Pennsylvania, and so I get there at like 6 55 and the talk is at seven o'clock and I have food, and they're like, oh, we have a thing in the back. And they're like, we'll postpone until 7 15, 7 20. Take your time, no rush. And I looked at her and I go, oh, no, I'll be on stage at seven o'clock. She said, well, but you need to eat. And I said, I'm a professional.

(16:43):

It doesn't matter how I feel. It doesn't matter if I don't get all of my dinner inside of me. This is what I do. I am a professional. And when you see yourself in that manner, one thing that drives me crazy, I even felt bad today at this podcast with technical difficulties is time is the most valuable thing in the world. And so I always try and be on time or early because I value my time at an incredibly high level, and I want to respect other people's time at that same level. And it's something I tell people very early on that I work with, do not waste my time or we will be done. I don't play that game. There's things that come up and you can communicate no big deal, but you just want to show up like five minutes, seven minutes, 12 minutes late, sorry.

(17:53):

Because it's just another form of not taking yourself seriously. And so I'm curious with you, what are some of the other ways? I mean, you don't try and show up and look shredded and be the most shredded person on stage. You definitely are. But what are some of the other ways you said that everybody would want to eat the food that you eat, and how do you incorporate joy? That is something I've learned to just love, and I've tried to train myself to fall in love with the process of becoming great, to fall in love with the dirty work, but joy is not something that comes naturally to me. And so my way of doing that is the guy I was talking about that I'll go meet whenever we finish here, he's the most joyful person on earth, and it's authentic. He lost his wife Tracy about 10 years ago, and he knew how bad she wanted to live, and he made her a promise, I will never have a bad day ever. And he doesn't, no matter what's going on around him, doesn't have a bad day. He loves life in a way that it's infectious. So I just spend as much time with him as possible because it infects me and I have more joy and I become more like him by being around him. But what are some of the ways that you practically do that? Because it is a struggle for me.

Michelle MacDonald (19:27):

Well, I probably at your level with that because it's something that I have to self-coach. But when you say, I'm a professional, we choose that word, we choose that identity. And so I've drilled into myself. My backstory is like, I struggled a lot or are unlike you. I struggled a lot when I was young. And then as a coach, I'm in this wonderful position where I really get to see the human drama day after day after day. So it's like, wow, okay, this is what it means to be in touch with your humanity. This is the Star Wars struggles, the Lord of the ring struggles. It's happening inside of us on a personal microcosmic level. And knowing that, knowing the game is, I wanted to ask you about success. What is success? Right? I talk a lot to my clients about abundance. It's not material wealth.

(20:18):

It's not owning things. It's your ability to be that monk in the middle of the hurricane that is at peace and everything is perfect and they're in that flow state, and this is how it's meant to be. And to me, that's the ultimate wisdom that I want to get to. And so I'm trying, I'm not an expert, but I try to thread that always into what I'm doing, and I try to catch myself. I want to always encourage my Ari, I was like, notice when you're out of joy, I want you to notice a little RAS, right? And then catch yourself. Let's switch like snow white whistle while you work. So a lot of times it's the simple things that are part of our collective wisdom that we need to try to be mad about what it is that you have to do, we a smile on your face.

(21:05):

You can't do it. So these sorts of things are what I try to do. And I also have a relationship with yourself where you're your best friend. Would you serve your best friend that was trying to do this impossibly hard task boiled chicken and frigging raw carrots and say, go and be successful and make them do it for 90 days? You absolutely wouldn't. If your best friend had 80 pounds to lose or they were going to have a heart attack and you were in charge of their nutrition, would you not be reading recipes? And all right, adherence is everything. How can I, okay, she loves Asian food. Alright, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to knock this out of the ball. You would do those things because you loved her and you wanted her to be successful. Kind of like what you said, how are you talking? Don't talk to my best friend like that. You have to have that relationship with yourself, and it's not a perfect journey, but have that intention and always try to go back to that.

Joshua Medcalf (21:59):

So to answer your question, that was beautiful about success. I think that success is honestly, to an extent, it's living life on your own terms. It's living life in a way that on your deathbed, you can have peace. It's living life in a way that you can live with very little to no regrets. I think it's living life in a way that you're not dependent or trapped by things. So in Finish, Mt, we talk, there's a chapter about owning things versus things zoning you. And it shocks, A lot of my friends have never owned a home, and they're just like, that is crazy. And I'm like, yeah, maybe for some people. But to me, it allows me to live differently. It allows me to be more of a citizen of the world. I don't feel like things own me. I have a nice car that I lease, but if something happens to it, I don't get bothered by it When stuff happens to, if I lose something that I own or it gets stolen, I say, well, it's a donation to the world and I've worked to live like this and not like this.

(23:40):

So when you talk about abundance, that's kind of how I've tried to live. But also living in a way that once again, you're not trapped in a job that you hate or you're not trapped in a relationship that you hate. And sometimes people ask me whether I'm on vacation and I say, I created a life I don't need a vacation from. So no, I don't know what vacation is. I travel. When I travel, I try and learn. I try and write. I try and build relationships, but vacation, I created a life I don't need a vacation from.

(24:25):

And then lastly, when you're talking about the joy once I want to make very clear is that I struggle and have struggled my entire life. There are a lot of people that don't like me. There are a lot of people at my club. I would argue that kind of despise me. I won't use the word hate, but I'll use the word despise. Growing up, autistic, losing my baby brother socially. I had no friends until I was 14, and I was always considered the weird kid. I was always considered very awkward. And then even today, it's still people just don't, in a professional setting, it works very, very well. And if the context is right, but it's a little bit, think about somebody like Sting in real life. That dude is a very different human being. He looks great on stage, makes, I've been told it's type of music isn't my favorite type of music.

(25:42):

But oftentimes those people who kind of have these big lives, there's aspects of their life that are not comfortable at all if you're going to live true to who you are and not on other people's terms, that's going to look really weird in a lot of settings and scenarios. How many times we've walked into a restaurant and they'll treat us disrespectfully and we'll just end up leaving. And my partner is just like, yeah, I kind of knew this was coming. I'm not afraid of awkward. If you treat me poorly, I'm not just going to roll over and take that. I'm probably going to remove myself from the situation. And again, they're like, well, why can't you just get along? Why can't? Well, I don't believe in that. So it works really well in certain environments. And I love my life. I'm so grateful for my life.

(26:56):

I have become my own best friend and my own best coach, but there's a lot of areas of society where people think that I am effing crazy and nuts. And I've also gotten to a point where I was telling my client yesterday that I don't need people to know whether I'm really smart or not, or whether it was some of the stuff that I've done. I just let them think that I'm crazy and that I dress funny and all this stuff, and I don't need them to know. Now, if they come and they ask questions and they're sincere and they are loving, happy to spend time with them and answer questions, but I'm also happy to let them kind of just think that I am the craziest, dumbest person they've ever known and that I've come to peace with those things. And then one of the things we wrote about in Finn Empty that I think it was from, I think the documentary is called Stutz Jordan, not Jordan, a-list celebrity that lost a lot of weight.

(28:13):

Funny guy, his therapist, he made a documentary about his therapist, I think it's called Stutz. And one of the things they talk about there in that, and in his book, one of the tools is that no matter what it looks like outside, no matter how big of a storm you are in or that exists currently, on the other side of that, the sun is shining. And as somebody that had PTSD from pulling my brother out of the pool that's dealt with significant bipolar ish depression, lots of things like that, suicidal ideation. My natural bend is not to joy, but I have learned that I can choose to focus on a higher perspective and that no matter what's going on, like you said, the monk in the hurricane, I can still have joy. I can still choose joy, I can still choose peace. I can still choose to give meaning to really terrible circumstances.

(29:28):

And when this hit home, just so you know, this really happened for me when I got knocked out in San Diego after a New Year's party about eight years ago, I get knocked out and I'm sitting in the hospital bed and I looked over at my two friends feeling like a fraud, feeling like a phony. And here I am, the director of mental training for UCLA women's basketball. I give keynotes all around the country. Maybe it was 10 years ago now, and I just feel like such a fraud, and it was really the time for me that it solidified, no, you have a choice to really believe this thing. You talk about a growth mindset and believe that this is in your best interest and an opportunity for you to learn and grow. You get to choose the meaning that you give that experience. Nobody else gets to choose that for you.

(30:22):

They can try and influence it, but you, Joshua, Michael Medcalf, you get to choose that. And so in the hospital bed waiting on the results from the CAT scan, I looked over at my friends and I said, I believe that this was in my best interest and an opportunity for me to learn and grow. Once again, they thought that I was crazy, but it really solidified for me, no matter what's going on, life is going to punch all of us in the face, and I still get to choose what the meaning is. I still have a choice, one of my favorite lines from Denzel Washington senate in a couple different movies. But there is always a choice. We may not like the consequences or consequences of our choices, but there is always a choice. And so one of the struggles for me, but that I have really enjoyed over the last couple of years, and Dave Hillman is a huge influence on me in this, that no matter what's going on, I can still choose joy. I can still choose to let my perspective rise above whatever temporary circumstances I'm experiencing.

Michelle MacDonald (31:33):

Beautiful. That's your resilience right there, because that's fundamental to resilience, right? No matter what happens, I've got to find a way to make this work for myself. Thank you. I mean, I could go on for another 10 hours or 10 weeks, and I hope one day I'll be able to do, I won't golf with you, but maybe we'll grab something to eat at some point in time or pass. Bring my mom, my mom's my, yeah, bring my mom. We'll sit down and chat. She'll love you.

Joshua Medcalf (32:02):

Love that.

Michelle MacDonald (32:04):

Thank you so much for being on the show, and we just scratched the surface really surface and surface. Well, I have so much gratitude. I have so much gratitude for your work. Number one,

Joshua Medcalf (32:18):

Thank you.

Michelle MacDonald (32:19):

I have a lot of gratitude for your professionalism and showing up and sharing the wealth of information and experience you have with myself and the audience. So I really, really appreciate that. I know you're busy and you don't have to work and you don't have to do these things, so I have a lot of gratitude that you've done that. So really, really big. Thanks, Joshua.

Joshua Medcalf (32:39):

No, thank you so much for having me on. There are certain times that it's very special to me and this one, and with you, it really is. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart that it was a privilege and honor to get to do this with you and with all the things that you've done in the world, it's very special to me, so I don't take it lightly, and I'm very grateful for the opportunity.

Michelle MacDonald (33:07):

I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

Joshua Medcalf (33:11):

Thank you.

Michelle MacDonald (33:15):

What an incredible three episodes with the writer Joshua Medcalf. He's got a viral book out called Chop Wood Carry Water, several other unbelievable books that help us to understand how to be great and how to be in love with the process of being great. And it's not just about your outcomes, it's who you are becoming in the process. And that's where the big win is, because at the end of the day, all you got left is yourself. Joshua, thank you for generously sharing your time, your wisdom and experiences with us across these conversations. Thank you for listening. Please don't forget, leave a reading and a review. We don't advertise on this podcast. Share this episode with a friend. Help us reach more listeners.