Welcome everybody to the show, stronger By Design. I have a guest, I was actually her guest a while ago with my mom, Joan. I have a special guest today. She is a award-winning host. I feel like an amateur. Michelle Grelo, she's has her own podcast. Guys, I really want to send you over there. It's called Aging Powerfully with Melissa Grelo, and she's also been the host of copious shows on tv. You've probably seen her very familiar face, including the social. She's a huge crusader for advocating for women, getting the science out to the everyday Jane, so to speak. So please, without further ado, welcome to the show. Melissa.

Melissa Grelo (01:07):

Hello, hello, hello. Nice to see you again, Michelle. Good to see you again as well.

Michelle MacDonald (01:11):

How long has it been?

Melissa Grelo (01:13):

Okay, when were you and my mom on my show? Season one and I'm already well deep into season two of my show, and so your episode with your mom was hugely received by my audience because we're all obsessed with both of you. And that was the last time we chatted. So I mean, we're going back. I mean, I want to say a year. Oh my God. Long time flies. Yeah, but it was a lot of

Michelle MacDonald (01:35):

Fun. Lot of fun. Yeah, she's turning 79.

Melissa Grelo (01:39):

Okay, so we recorded a few days after her birthday last year. So it has been a year because, I dunno if you remember on our episode, this is Inside Baseball for Your Audience. We had a recorded date or a scheduled recording date and we had to push it because we couldn't find your mom. And then it turns out she was partying for her birthday. So we That's totally made up. That's the story. I told myself, no, you said you couldn't find her. And then I was like, sounds like she's totally party for her

Michelle MacDonald (02:09):

Birthday. That is hilarious. So yeah. Well, let's dive in. I really want this episode to showcase your breadth of knowledge in this space. You've talked to so many doctors, so many experts. I think didn't you host the Menopause convention in Toronto last October? I dunno if you're going to be there again this year, but you're in the thick of it. I think I met you actually maybe through Amanda thi or I saw you somewhere you were at an event, maybe it was Jen Gunther's event and I feel like one of my clients, Jody Kovi said, oh, you've got to meet this girl. She's incredible. She's amazing.

Melissa Grelo (02:49):

Oh, that is so nice. Yeah, we have a lot of parallel lives and friends because in this space and certainly in Canada as it is around the world, the explosion finally about talking about things like menopause, but also trying to find the right voices that I really, who are doing things in a way that I really want to learn more about. And you're one of those people. So we met through a few people and yes, the National Menopause Show was in October in Toronto. It was the first ever national menopause show and it was such a success. It's going to be two days this October and more details to come, but women need information and it's clear we are looking for it.

Michelle MacDonald (03:29):

Yeah, let's dive into that a little bit. I know I just saw a post on the gram early this morning talking about some of the issues around healthcare in Canada, and we're seeing that also I coach most of my clients are actually Americans and I'm hearing a lot of issues in America as well with getting great healthcare when you're going through menopause. So can we talk a little bit about that? How can women find good information?

Melissa Grelo (03:54):

Yeah, so this is I think the impetus for why I think I was so compelled to start my own podcast because as a woman going through perimenopause, the menopause transition, I consider myself a really well-educated person. I get access to a lot of really cool people because of my day job as a talk show host. And I still found myself completely blindsided by this thing called perimenopause menopause transition. And I thought to myself, I'm pretty in touch and in tune with a lot of stuff with fitness, my health, the system, so to speak, the healthcare system. Why am I still caught flatfooted here without information, without knowledge? And I really got angry about it if I can say, because the more I started to look for information, I thought, oh, well maybe it's just because I haven't looked for it. It's got to be out there, right?

(04:43):

Very quickly I came to understand the information is not out there readily. And as I started to talk to doctor friends, as I started to listen to podcasts, which were mostly American, I realized, oh my gosh, there is a gap, a massive void in the healthcare system when it comes to a lot of things to do with women's health and menopause being one of them. And I just was so frustrated with the lack of information that I said we need it. And I guess I got to be one of the people to try to step up and find the information, not only just for myself, but for other women as I was speaking to friends who were finding the same thing, which was there's no information for us out here. And so when we talk about access to care, I think we have to go back to the beginning, which is a statistic that hit me on the side of the head, both for American medical students and Canadian medical students, which was the complete lack of education that doctors are receiving in medical school.

(05:39):

There were some doctors who told me in the States, oh, we received one hour lecture on menopause in med school. And then I started to hear very similar things from doctors here in Canada. And you very quickly, if I can use the word, you get pissed because if half the world's population is going to go through it, it would be like somebody saying to a doctor, don't worry, you don't really need to learn that much about childbirth or you don't really have to learn that much about heart attacks and heart health. I mean, it sounds ridiculous. And yet menopause is a life stage with a bunch of things that are happening just like any other person in any other condition. So I think that's the impetus for my show. And it is definitely when we talk about the state of it today, even though the world is talking about menopause more, you cannot overnight create menopause specialists. It takes years. So we are in a lag of women understanding and wanting more information and a gap between the care that we're actually able to access. And the Canadian system is having a lot of trouble, not just in menopause care, but it's in a lot of trouble in a lot of ways. And menopause is one of those ways.

Michelle MacDonald (06:46):

What are some of the surprising things that you have come across as you've learned more and more about the transition?

Melissa Grelo (06:55):

So I think for me, there's a personal side to this and then there's interacting with the healthcare system. I've had surprises all kinds. So I think for me, the biggest surprise was simply not knowing what the possible symptoms were. As I started to experience the menopause transition, myself and I, especially when I was younger, was very prone to health anxieties. We sometimes throw around the word hypochondriac, but I could definitely say for a good chunk of my life that's been me. And for someone like me that's very, very paranoid about, I mean, do I have this disease? Do I have this disease? The negative side of that is always thinking you have some kind of terminal illness, but the positive side of that is you can probably be proactive, maybe much more than the average Jane about your health. You are looking into things more.

(07:42):

You want to understand everything. And so I started to experience heart palpitations. That was my very, very, very first symptom. And I remember this was in my early forties, and I started to have really wild racing hearts, and I've always done exercise and the feeling is literally as if I had been on a sprint and that feeling when your heart rushes and you feel that, I'd feel that, but sitting perfectly still at my desk. And it was so disconcerting that I thought I was having a heart attack. And that's how my journey started into this whole thing called Mary perimenopause because of course I rushed to my doctor and I was like, I think I have a heart condition. I'm just sitting there. I look down, I'm at 150 beats per minute, but I'm sitting still, this is not normal. And great doctor, she's so fabulous and she did the right thing.

(08:33):

She's like, okay, well let's run some tests and I'm going to send you to a cardiologist thinking, okay, yeah, I mean there's got to be an underlying issue. Did the halter monitor all the things that you should do to come up with no answer at the end? And I think what's more frustrating was that, and I said, well, something's going on. And I think the frustration was no one along my journey said, okay, well we've ruled out everything else. Could it be perimenopause? Are you starting to have hormone fluctuations, which we know can contribute to these fluctuating heart feelings of heart palpitations, which a lot of women describe as racing heart, skip beats. Someone wouldn't even describe it. I feel like I'm having a heart attack. So that was where it started, and I really got frustrated with the system from there on in. And how did you get treatment? What was that journey like? So I tried to find answers for myself when I didn't get answers from anybody that satisfied me other than maybe you should meditate more with your palpitations, cardio. There's a greater

Michelle MacDonald (09:41):

Truth in that, right? Sure, I get that neuro introspection.

Melissa Grelo (09:43):

You're right, yeah, they're not wrong, but I was still experiencing them. And then something very dangerous happens as Type A women, we want answers. I'm a Gen Xer. We just don't take no for an answer. We don't take, I don't know for an answer. When you are experiencing something very real and someone's telling you there's no answer for it, there's no reason, you're fine. We're like, but we're not fine. And why I say that's dangerous is what I have seen now as I've been in this menopause space and a wellness space for a while, is that when we don't get answers that satisfy us or help us find some kind of resolution, we start to find answers for ourselves. Sometimes that's good, and sometimes that's very, very bad. Why I say it's bad is because I believe that there are industries that have really been able to profit off of misinformation and all for the sake of selling a product, selling something that doesn't actually have any science behind it, but they talk like they've got solutions for us.

(10:49):

And so I went down, sadly, the root of really heavy supplementation. I'm not saying all supplements are bad supplements have a place in people's wellness journey, but when you start talking to a woman like me, I'm a zero to a hundred kind of gal. I'm an all or nothing kind of gal. And I started to almost play doctor to myself, which was self-diagnose, dangerous. I'm not a doctor, but I was reading claims being made by certain products that they could help with A, B, C, D, E, F, G. And lo and behold, not a couple months later, I'm spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a ton of supplements that I have no idea if they're A effective, and B, how they interact with each other and what kind of damage I could be doing to my body. So why I say dangerous was in the absence of science, in the absence of someone who understood the menopause journey, in the absence of not having that person in my life, I started to self-diagnose very, very dangerous territory. That's where we can get duped. We can get bamboozled. We can really hurt ourselves with putting things in our body that we just don't know what they're actually doing. So that was my first step and I started to experience really adverse health effects as a result. And then that's when this journey of my podcast and finding actually menopause trained specialists began.

Michelle MacDonald (12:22):

How did you find those specialists?

Melissa Grelo (12:24):

So lucky with my day job, I'm able to have access to really bright minds. And also I'm a journalist, and so I really had to get quite serious about that to say, well, science journalism has never been my thing, but maybe I should really dive into that a little bit more, understand how to read studies a little bit better, understand how to differentiate between what is a good study, what is not a good study, and start to get a little bit more into the gritty details of what, when someone says science based, well what does that actually mean? What does that even mean? It sounds great. And the average Jane is sounds like, oh, that sounds great. I love science, but what does that actually mean? So getting educated the right way. And I did find some menopause trained specialists. I started to understand the role of menopause societies.

(13:09):

For example, what was formally called the North American Menopause Society now called the Menopause Society is a fabulous resource. There are a lot of very reputable science-backed places, foundations and organizations that their entire reason for being is going over the science and helping doctors to get trained up and to provide better care for their patients. And so once I started to tap into the resources that existed, a whole new world opened up to me and reaching out to doctors who are menopause certified through the Menopause Society, for example, that was my first stop and understanding what is good literature and bad literature. And right away I dumped virtually all of the supplements I had to get my, I really screwed up my digestive system if I'm being perfectly honest. I really did a lot of damage. I did. I'm very ashamed to say that I feel like I'm supposed to be smarter than that, but ain't no shame in the game. I'm being vulnerable to say I'm one of the many women who go down these wrong roads when we don't have good care. So once I found some really great specialists who really put me on track with the science and getting a little bit more literate with the science itself, I started to make better decisions. And that's when I said, well, women deserve this kind of information as well, straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Michelle MacDonald (14:29):

Yeah. Could you share a little bit more to the audience? What are some tips or strategies to be more educated and to be able to sift through information? What's good science? What's bad science? Can you give any tips?

Melissa Grelo (14:45):

I think for me, the first and foremost thing is to go to an organization for the Menopause Society. And I say that because they do do all the work. They are sifting through all the science, and they do have a portal for people who are not necessarily scientifically literate. I don't think you have to have a PhD in science to be able to read a study, but you do need someone who is a good communicator to be able to say, we've read the study, here's the outcome, and here's what the science says. And also the Menopause Society as an example. And there are many societies around the world actually in Europe, there's the Menopause Society, et cetera. But their actual job is to be able to say to you, here's what the science says right now. And we know science is always evolving, so they're on top of the evolution of the new, the new, but they are also there to be able to say, here's what the science supports in terms of what the care that your doctor should be giving, what works in terms of medications, in terms of lifestyle interventions.

(15:39):

It's laid out on the Menopause Society's portals for women in a digestible way. I'll start with the easy stuff, and this is the stuff that's in your wheelhouse, which is why I wanted to have you on my show, which was there's stuff called modifiable risk factors. These are the things that are completely within our control now, and that is the food that we put into our body. It is the way that we move our body. It is trying to manage sleep. It is trying to manage stress, and it's trying to manage social connections. This stuff seems basic, and it's almost so basic that it goes over people's heads because I think a lot of us type a's are looking for silver bullets. We're looking for, there's a magic pill, but what if I told you that the magic pill is actually at your fingertips right now? So start to understand nutrition. I mean, to me, nutrition and movement and sleep are the foundations of life, period here, right? It's like, and by the way, tons of science to support all of

Michelle MacDonald (16:45):

It, tons of science.

Melissa Grelo (16:47):

We don't have to look at a pill at the outset if the science says this is how probably you should be eating more of this and less of this, and that's when a protein forward diet for my age group and up that becomes a big issue. Losing muscle is a real thing for us. And so starting to understand, okay, I need more protein. Okay, well, how much protein? Okay, so there's different ways to understand that and look up calculators online. So now that I know that I'm personally shooting for a hundred to 150 grams a day because that's what my calculator says I need based on my, and again, no two women are going to go through this the same. I'm very active. I don't work out as much as you do, but I do love it and I work out a lot. So I need to fuel how I'm working out because my goal right now is building muscle.

(17:42):

It is the organ of longevity. So how do I feed myself to be able to not only maintain my muscle, but hey, let's try to build it because I have a vision for my future. I have a vision for today, and I might want to look cute in a bikini today, but I also want to toss around some grandkids hopefully in the future. And I think for me, the long game became the focus, which is I want to have a great life today, and I want to have a great life when I'm 90 and God willing a hundred. So you have to understand it's how you're eating today that makes that difference. So for me, listen, I don't have to tell you this. It is a full-time job trying to get enough protein in the damn body in a day. And I'm like, did I get enough?

(18:26):

Did I get enough? But I'd much rather be doing that than thinking about frailty in the future. So I'm very protein forward right now. I will make it, your audience may not know this. I was pescatarian since I was 16 years old, and I started eating meat two years ago, and that was a big thing for me because I wasn't getting enough protein. And I had a really great dietician who was like, would you consider eating meat again? I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. And the more I thought about it, I realized what I was missing and I really needed it. And I'm going to tell you something, my body lit up like a Christmas tree, and I was like, what have I been missing out on? Now that might not be everybody's story, but that's mine, and that's how I'm hitting my protein goals.

(19:11):

Understanding my digestion was changing a lot. I talked earlier about my supplements. They really did a number on my digestive system. And so I said, I need to eat the colors of the rainbow, and I've got to really be upping all of my complex carbs in the form of a ton of beautifully colorful veggies. And that was hard for me to again, eat what was necessary. We know we need to hit fiber goals. And by the way, I was backed up for years. I realized it's like, shit, I shouldn't have been eating, shouldn't been eating this much, right? Things start to move better, literally and figuratively. And so

(19:52):

Today, my real focus still with laser focus is getting my variety of proteins, getting my variety of really colorful veggies and then throwing in the right kinds of carbs because I had to reprogram my brain. The Gen X generation, we have a war on carbs apparently, and I had to really reprogram that, right? It's a major paradigm shift, 40 plus when you've been raised with cardio and no carbs. I had to really reprogram a lot of that thinking to be like, I was never afraid of weights. Don't get me wrong. I know a lot of women are for good reason, but I was never afraid of weights. But I realized I got to pack on some muscle. And contrary to popular belief, it's really hard to put on muscle as a woman. It's really, really hard. I can't look like you, even though I'm trying so hard, but I'm trying.

(20:49):

I'm really, really trying. It's really, really hard. So nutrition, really honing that in. And I will admit, it's not a perfect science for me yet. I'm still improving every day. I'm trying to still figure out things every day, still have a little fun with my food. I'm not depriving myself of anything as you should. I think that women need to be reminded of that because an all or nothing gal, as I said, so I have to also allow myself grace to be like, it's not all or nothing. I did a segment today on my talk show and someone brought chocolate cupcakes, but they were infused with a secret ingredient. We had to eat it. And I was like, oh, there's no secret ingredient. This is like a pure chocolate fudge brownie cupcake. And they were like, it's full of sweet potatoes. And I was like, yes.

(21:32):

Okay. So we can have treats and we can really still enjoy life changing the way I work out. I think this is, I'm preaching to the choir, but I think I want anybody listening who is still reticent or understanding, but I just want to run on the treadmill for 45 minutes. Yeah, girl. I know. I was there too. It doesn't serve our bodies the same way, and there's a place for it for some people for sure. But if you're trying to build muscle as the organ of longevity, get real up close and personal with weight training, and I love it personally. Again, I don't know what you're doing because I can't build the muscle as fast as I want to. I got to come see you in Mexico is what I realized. You have to. So I'm really trying. Be careful what you wish for. Yes. Listen, I'm going to put it out in the universe. I'm going to absolutely put that on my list for 2025,

Michelle MacDonald (22:25):

Make it happen.

Melissa Grelo (22:26):

So weight training is a big, big, big focus. And lastly is sleep, because I've always been a good sleeper, but when perimenopause hit, my sleep started to get very, very disrupted. And so trying to figure that piece out was new. And then I had started with some hot flashes, but the occasional night sweat, luckily, and hopefully it stays like this, which is so far manageable, but I'll do whatever it takes if it gets worse to make sure that that doesn't disrupt me because my sleep is, I'm so cherishing my sleep time and I'm doing everything I can to try to protect it. I'm not perfect. I have to put away the phone earlier. I have to do the things, but I'm trying and I'm definitely seeing gains in those places. So I think those pillars, they have a new focus in my life and learning the science as to why, because I think if we understand why it's a lot easier to do and it's a lot easier to stay motivated.

Michelle MacDonald (23:27):

You talked a lot about the basic levers. Have you interviewed experts talking about alcohol at all? I know it's got its limelight again, but in a negative way, right? A lot of research saying that there's no amount of alcohol that's beneficial for the brain, contrary to what we've been hearing and all of this stuff, class one carcinogen. Have you had anyone on talking about that or no?

Melissa Grelo (23:49):

Well, I love that you asked that question because I quit drinking three and a half years ago, and so I have not had alcohol in my life since then. And again, not because I had a problem per se, but I realized why am I working so hard to be healthy? Alcohol doesn't make sense in that journey for me. And I did have, I think it was only my second or third episode in season one, and I had Ann Johnston and do Johnston on, and she wrote a book 10 years ago, but she was commemorating the 10 year anniversary of a book about women and alcohol and what she called the ification of alcohol and how when

Michelle MacDonald (24:31):

Sex in the city.

Melissa Grelo (24:32):

Yes, exactly. Yeah. Once alcohol sales to men started to actually decline, the alcohol industry had to do a really quick pivot to figure out, well, how do we expand our consumer base and get more women drinking? And it was what she called the ification of the alcohol industry. And that was your sweet, fruity, sugary drinks, and it was your margaritas and it was your daiquiris and it was your pina coladas, and it was starting to sell and market actively to women. And it wasn't just because they were trying to sell us a good time, it was to expand consumer base. And so with now the updated guidelines, Canada actually led the states in updating their guidelines. We updated our guidelines two years ago, and the states only updated their guidelines recently to say two drinks or more a week increases your risk of seven types of cancer.

(25:30):

And I know personally, cancer and alcohol were never things that were linked for me historically, ever. We were sold and marketed that alcohol, but in particular red wine is actually good for you. And now we know that's actually not true, and which is that that's the conundrum that we can find ourselves in as women or as consumers. Well, didn't doctors say, wasn't it a doctor who said that it was good for your heart health? And so the idea of how science evolves, how you interpret studies, the amount of red wine you actually have to drink to have any kind of benefit to your heart is like a tub full of alcohol and therefore the risks outweigh the benefits. So that's the part of the marketing that they didn't tell us about. And I'm not here to vilify alcohol, but what I'm here to say is that for me, in my health journey, why was I doing, why am I doing all of these things only to have alcohol really disrupt basics like sleep, digestion, mood, which is another thing.

(26:32):

A lot of us experience changes in perimenopause in the menopause transition. It's a real alcohol's of downer for me. And so if it didn't throw you into almost a depressive state, a lot of women, and I experienced this a few times, would have the heart palpitations the next day. And so it was really disruptive to my health. And I just thought, why am I doing this? And I just want to say for the record, Michelle, and to all your listeners, I still know how to have a hell of a good time. I believe you. I'm a club girl, right? I'm a club girl. I am in the club a lot. So you don't need to link alcohol and a good time, which is what socially we have really been conditioned to do. Everything that's supposed to be a good time is met with alcohol. And I think we really need to unlink those two.

(27:19):

We celebrate with a toast. We go out to relax after a long week at work and it's happy hour at the bar. We want to let loose, we're sad, we want to connect with girlfriends, and we open up a bottle of tequila. I think we really need to unlink alcohol in a good time. It might have a place for you. For me, it no longer serves me. It doesn't have a place in my life. And I really want women to think about that. Oh, wait, and seven types of cancer. I mean, if there's not enough information already out there for you.

Michelle MacDonald (27:51):

Yeah, geez. Right. I clearly remember when I was in, I was really young when I went to uni. I was 17 and I love to dance and I was trying to get into the university club. I went to Trent University in Peter Row, and I literally argued what I do. I'm a firecracker. I argued with the bouncers and I said, listen, I don't drink. I don't want to drink. I just want to dance. And you're letting all these other people that are one year older than me get in and they're just going to get wasted.

Melissa Grelo (28:19):

That's right. And they're going to be messy.

Michelle MacDonald (28:22):

Messy. Yeah. I love to dance too. So you interview a ton of experts across different fields. Is there one perspective that you've seen a really big shift in this space of aging for women?

Melissa Grelo (28:39):

I see it shifting. I wish it would shift more and quicker, but I think we're slowly getting there. And that is understanding that size, our body size and how it links up to health. It's something that's shifting, and I say this in the context of much more your world, that there's a fear of the bulking up with women and weight training. And I think that it's slowly shifting that it's not about health is skinny or skinny equals health. I think we're very slowly starting to challenge that paradigm, which is hard because we have a youth obsessed culture. And quite frankly, we still have a very thin obsessed culture. I mean, the reason why Ozempic has blown up is not because, oh my gosh, it's going to potentially really help you with your diabetes. It's blown up because everybody wants to be skinny.

(29:37):

And I'm not downplaying the obesity. There's an obesity, but I think we're not leading with maybe the health part of that we're leading with. But you look skinny. And I think as a woman, I'm still trying to recover from the damage that has been done to me by society our whole lives, which is you just have to shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink, take up less space, be smaller. And there is a physical part of that, which is the terrible diets out there, which is the damage we have done to our bodies for decades to suit somebody else's beauty ideal. And I think the slow shift, at least for me and my cohort in this age group is understanding strength is sexy, longevity is sexy. Being able to protect your brain health in the next decades is sexy. Having solid, running up a flight of stairs and not losing your breath, that's hot.

(30:37):

It's not to the point that I want it to be yet, but I think Gen Xers, were slowly trying to shift the conversation to don't be scared of a little muscle. It looks great, but beyond looking great, it's so good for you. It feels great. So good for you. It feels great. And listen, I'm more vain than the next girl. Trust me. I'm not here to say that. It's not about that I club. I wear the short skirts, I wear the bikinis. I love that. But understanding that for me now, it's not just that I'm not just in the pursuit of being cute in a skirt. I really have the long game in mind. I really do. I want to be able to still do the flight of stairs the exact same way I do it today. So the goals are different. So I think the biggest shift is it's not big enough, but it's going in the direction of understanding that muscle is our friend.

(31:34):

I think there is a shift away from alcohol, slowly but surely. I used to be the only gal among my friends that didn't drink, and now I think most of my friends have drastically reduced their consumption. Everybody brings a non elk version of something and it's not about getting sloshed anymore, which is also a function of our age. And finally, I think people are just talking about menopause, which again, that's a massive societal shift as well that we just haven't seen. I don't think I've ever seen that. I asked my mother and she's like, trust me, I've never seen this. My mother's turning 85 this year. So there are things changing for the better.

Michelle MacDonald (32:11):

What about caffeine, right? Because you've had some vasomotor symptoms and caffeine can definitely exacerbate that. Have you had to limit that at all, or have you been able to get away? Do you drink coffee?

Melissa Grelo (32:21):

I do drink coffee, but I have to be very careful because I also have anxiety that I manage and I manage her very well most days. But for me, the caffeine is limited to only one a day, a small serving of coffee in the morning. I did go actually for a while without it. I wanted to kind of just see what it was like. And it's not that I disliked it, but I did a little experiment just to see what my morning workouts, which is when I work out in the mornings, I wanted to see what my workouts were like with and without coffee. So I know that my tolerance for caffeine is quite low, so I limit myself to one a day. She's pretty small because more than that, I find particularly for my anxiety, actually, we don't get along very well. So I have to limit her for that reason.

Michelle MacDonald (33:07):

Crazy that you are in the limelight and having to do a lot of impromptu stuff too, to interviewing people and probably having a lot of things coming at you and you've got anxiety.

Melissa Grelo (33:16):

And that's something that also came up in perimenopause. I was in my twenties and when I first started to experience anxiety, and I majored in psychology, I have a degree in psychology. And so funny enough, when I started to experience it, it was one of my profs who I was talking to and she's like, I think you need to come in and see me. And it was my first experience with therapy and trying to manage it. It was pretty bad. Mine manifested initially as a flight anxiety. I would have anxiety attacks on flights, which is not fun. And then it started to spread into other aspects of my life. So I really first had I handle of it in my twenties, but after I had my daughter, actually, she wasn't even a year old. And then my anxiety came back with a vengeance. I think that's part of my hormonal story.

(34:02):

So people are more, particularly if you know you've had mood issues, particularly in adolescence, the experts will tell you if you've got mood issues in puberty and adolescence, be aware because through the perimenopause and menopause transition, when those hormones are fluctuating again, you may see a recurrence of that. And that was me actually. And so for me, the anxiety in my job, it didn't manifest on air. It was almost as if I was like a border call. When you're working, those dogs are bred to work and run. When I'm in the job and I'm interviewing and I'm on set, I feel great. It's the after. So it's almost like my anxiety hits me in quiet moments when it doesn't look like there's a trigger, but the trigger is the after and I will never be cured, but I manage it really, really well. And part of that is stress reduction, which is part of my journey as well.

Michelle MacDonald (35:00):

Yeah, no is a complete sentence.

Melissa Grelo (35:02):

That's

Michelle MacDonald (35:02):

Right. It's so hard to learn those boundaries, especially as a woman when we've got so many people that are relying on us to get everything at the door. Right. My last question for you, looking ahead, what are some of the exciting conversations, topics you hope to explore on your podcast? What's coming up? What's new?

Melissa Grelo (35:23):

Oh yeah. I think understanding now as women are how crucial nutrition and exercise are to the journey. You can probably speak to this more, but as more of the outsider in the space, because I'm not a trainer, although I'm working towards my personal training certification. But as an outsider and as a woman who's still in it, I'm really still in it. I see the interest now shifting towards the things we can control such as nutrition and exercise. So personally, I really want to help de-stigmatize and also take away the intimidation of strength training because a lot of women, understandably so, are really intimidated in the weight room or at the gym because no one ever taught us. And we never thought that that was a place for us. We thought the cardio room was for us, and the gym bros had the weight room. And I think as women are like, oh my God, I need to start lifting weights.

(36:24):

I know how that feels. The gym intimidation is a real thing. So I think I'm really excited to start to help lead and connect women like me and finding the right experts to help get us over this next hump, which is how do we feed ourselves and how do we move our bodies? And I feel that the spaces and conversations are shifting now to towards that. And I want women to understand how exciting it is to be able to have that within our control. There is still more work to be done to de-stigmatize menopause. There's still a lot of work to be done to improve access to care in Canada. As I said earlier, our healthcare system is in shambles. That's just for anything that anybody is going through, right? Emergency care. I was in the emergency with my mother on Christmas night, and I'm there with an 84-year-old woman for 12 hours who had fallen and smacked her head on the asphalt, and there was nobody there to see her.

(37:23):

And there was an incredibly long wait. Those things are real. On top of all of that, we don't have enough family doctors. And when it comes to menopause care, that's your first line of defense, is a really great family doctor who supports you, who believes you, and is there to give you good information. So I really want a big part of my work to continue to be advocacy, but also pushing forward agendas for med school curriculums to get updated. It is slowly changing, but a one hour lecture on menopause is insufficient. It's insufficient. I would like that to really be increased in terms of prominence in med school curriculums, I would really like to see billing codes and fee codes changed in every province and territory. In Canada, doctors are not incentivized. They don't have the training, so they may not feel capable, but there's also not a financial incentive for a family doctor to give you a menopause assessment when you probably need it or perhaps just before you start needing it. So you're not surprised when it lands. There are no fee codes that can capture a menopause assessment for a woman who's looking for information, they've got 10 minutes for you. And unless you're there with an acute issue, there is no billing code for us. And also updating. I

Michelle MacDonald (38:42):

Didn't know that.

Melissa Grelo (38:43):

And so if a doctor says, well, I want to give you care, what's the fee code for that? What's the billing code? I have to bill my provincial government for that. It doesn't exist. I think one or two. Nope. I think one Atlantic Province might have that, or Maritime Province, maybe it's New Brunswick or PE. I might be getting that wrong, but literally out of all of our province and territories, it doesn't exist in the billing codes. Why not? Why not? If there's a code for you to see me for a rash and you can bill for that, I need you to bill to see me for my menopause care. So I think there's advocacy work to be done there. And there are some people starting to push for that. And the big push is us. I advocate for women like me to go to your doctor and say, listen, you might not feel comfortable giving me the care, but you're my doctor and I need care waiting lists for menopause. Clinics in this country are 18 to 24 months long.

Michelle MacDonald (39:43):

Yeah, I believe that exhibit clients waiting. Yeah,

Melissa Grelo (39:46):

It's not okay. So I think that's where the next frontier is. That's where the conversations can continue to go and should go.

Michelle MacDonald (39:54):

And I think doubling down, if we can finish with just doubling down, be cautious with educate yourself, but be cautious about going down that rabbit hole of self diagnosing and treating. And when you're already vulnerable in a place where we are now, I say it to my community, menopause women, I feel like we really have a target on our back because on the one hand, we're talking about menopause and it's more open, but it's like, oh, huge market, vulnerable sell, right?

Melissa Grelo (40:23):

That's right. I want to say that to women over and over and over again. Arm yourself with good information because there are a lot of people who are preying upon us and wanting to sell snake oil to us,

Michelle MacDonald (40:38):

Including medical entrepreneurs.

Melissa Grelo (40:43):

Some of the biggest names on social media who are medical doctors and menopause specialists are selling items that have not sufficient science behind them. That should be illegal, if you ask me perfectly. Honestly. That's I think perhaps a more American phenomenon. But listen, anybody can do that. And I think that that's how is a woman to tell the difference? Well, it's a menopause specialist, it's a doctor. They're not going to sell me something that doesn't have science behind it. Right? On a

Michelle MacDonald (41:17):

Big platform and on a

Melissa Grelo (41:18):

Big

Michelle MacDonald (41:18):

Platform.

Melissa Grelo (41:19):

On a big platform. And I think that's really, that's not fair to us. It's really, really not fair. And so yes, there are people out there preying upon us, but understand that the biggest impact that you can have on your own life is not in a pill. It is in a lot of things that are in your control literally right now. So that's the part I always want to empower women about, right? We're always looking for the silver bullet. There isn't a pill. They can market it as fancy as they want, but exercise and nutrition and sleep are going to go a long way.

Michelle MacDonald (41:54):

And then again, heading to one of the big organizing bodies like the Menopause Society, I think in Britain, UK listeners, it's the British Menopause Society. I know the Australasian Menopause Society that has Susan Davies and a ton of other great experts are there as well. And then there's the international menopause

(42:12):

Layers and layers and adds to your point. I mean, these are groups of people whose passion is really staying on top of what science can say. And I know Susan's doing a great really large, I believe it's an RCTA research trial on, I think it's hormone therapy. I think it's testosterone specifically. So we're all anxiously waiting. What's she going to find? What's she going to be able to say that the science can say right now about that? Because that's a hot one. Thank you so much, Melissa. I know you've got to get going and I hope I can get you back on the show because you are just a wealth of information and everybody you can go check out her podcast Aging Powerfully with Melissa Grelo a ton. She's in her second season, an absolute ton of gold mine information there with the doctors and other experts. And do you want to mention just quickly about Menopause Month in Canada?

Melissa Grelo (43:11):

Yes. So March, I think around North America, but maybe the world March is a women's history month, and so there are a ton of events happening, certainly surrounding women. October was the other big one because it's Menopause Awareness month, but March also. And there are a ton of events happening online, a lot of stuff that is happening online with webinars, et cetera, and workshops. I love those because often they are free. Hopefully most of them are free or without a lot of charge and access to more information and doctors and science and information. So just keep up to date at Melissa Grelo is my Instagram handle or at Aging powerfully with mg. And just like you, I try to be really, really active on social media to get good information out to the community because I think knowledge is power. It always has been. That hasn't changed. So I just want to say a big thank you because you're a big inspiration for me and you're one of the reasons why I keep pushing in the gym because my God, whatever it takes to get those deltas, I will do come hell or high water, they come from Joan.

(44:16):

So thank you for all that you do as well. I

Michelle MacDonald (44:17):

Really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much, Melissa. Incredible episode. Here are the top three things I got from Melissa Grelo in this episode. Number one, menopause education is lacking. Most doctors receive minimal training on menopause, leaving women to navigate symptoms without proper medical support. It's crucial to seek out specialists and trusted sources like the Menopause Society. Two. Strength training is a non-negotiable. I love this one. Building Muscle Gals isn't just about looking good. It is the key to longevity, bone health and staying strong as we age. Women need to embrace lifting weights and fueling properly with protein. Three, be aware, this is so important. Be aware of misinformation. The wellness industry is full of unproven supplements and quick fixes, targeting women in midlife science-backed care, lifestyle changes, nutrition, movement, sleep are the real foundation of health. Guys, if you found this episode valuable, please take a moment to leave a rating and review. It helps more people discover the show. And if you know one friend who needs to hear this conversation, please share this episode with them. See you next time.