Atkins Labcast Episode 58 - Colleen Raven Strangways

Paul sits down with Colleen Raven Strangways and discusses her award winning photography that has been featured at the Ballarat International Foto Bienale as well as Tarnanthi at the Art Gallery of South Australia and much more.

Colleen on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/Nharla_Photography/

Colleen on TikTok: @nharla_photography

Arabana Country: https://www.arabana.com.au

Ballarat International Foto Bienale 2023 : https://www.instagram.com/p/CxXhoW4NDEG/?hl=hi

Tarnanthi 2023: https://www.agsa.sa.gov.au/whats-on/tarnanthi/tarnanthi-2023/tarnanthi-uv-songlines-illuminating-ancestral-roots-at-feltspace/

NAIDOC: National Aboriginal and Islanders Day Observance Committee: https://www.naidoc.org.au

NAIDOC Rundle Mall family portrait project: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DL57lZ-z9wG/

Blaklens: https://blaklens.com.au/

Transcript

Paul Atkins 0:00

G'day listeners, welcome to episode 58 of the Atkins Labcast. This episode I sit down here on Kaurna land with Colleen Raven-Strangways, a remarkable photographer specialising in editorial, cultural and family photography. Colleen's background on her dad's side is Arabana from the Lake Eyre region and her mum's Mudbura, Gurindji and Warlpiri the Northern Territory. I first saw Colleen's work at the Ballarat International Photo Biennale a few years ago and since then her expertise on TikTok and Instagram has kept her in the forefront of my mind. So do look for the links in the show notes and follow her work. Colleen's photography is excellent. Like the best photographers of people, she makes you feel like family. pretty quickly. I hope you enjoy this time with Colleen as much as I did. What prompted me to actually get off my backside and contact you was I was in the Rundle Mall, just walking. Actually, I was just hiding from work for that moment, and I came across a show of family photography, family portraiture, whatever you want to call it, editorial work for Night Oak Week that was sitting there in the mall. And I thought, Colleen must be here somewhere, but you were swamped by the mayor and the media and all that kind of stuff. So tell me, let's just wind back. We can talk about this stuff later, but I want to know what got you into photography. Tell me more about yourself and how a camera got into your hands.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:48

Oh, thank you for that. Um, First of all, I'd just like to introduce myself. I'm Colleen Raven-Strangways. So I'm Arabana. I'm Mudbura, Gurindji and Warlpiri, born and bred in Alice Springs. Moved to Adelaide from Alice Springs in the late 80s. So been here, raised in the family ever since. But now I sit on the board of Arabana as a director. One of the directors that oversees Lake Eyre, what we call Karritunda, and are about a country to make sure that the land, the culture and heritage and language is still preserved for generations to come.

Paul Atkins 2:28

Beautiful. Beautiful. It's a fabulous part of the world.

Colleen Raven Strangways 2:32

Yes.

Paul Atkins 2:32

And now the water's coming down.

Colleen Raven Strangways 2:34

Yes, the water's coming down from Queensland so it's starting to sort of fill up and we want everyone to come there and enjoy it. We just don't want people going on the lake at the moment because it's so fragile.

Paul Atkins 2:44

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 2:45

So, so fragile because we've got some people that want to boat on there at the moment and There's people who want to boat on it. Yeah, and it's just like, you know, not only is, you know, for cultural reasons because we get a lot of our law from there, but it's such a fragile, you know, part of the world, especially here in Australia because it's the third largest lake in the world or salt lake. Wow. And it's the largest one in Australia. And it is so important for our migration of birds that come there, our, you know, like I said, you know, the wildlife, but, the environment, all that sort of stuff. So we get a lot of photographers down there taking photos.

Paul Atkins 3:23

I want something unique.

Colleen Raven Strangways 3:25

Oh, and it is unique because we get, like I said, the migration of birds. So we get swans. We get, yeah, we get pelicans.

Paul Atkins 3:32

I see pelicans, yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 3:33

Pelicans. We get a lot of seabirds, or I should say seagulls there all the time. And we get all kinds of migrations of birds that come from, you know, overseas life as far as Africa. Yeah, yeah. And come down through. And so it just becomes alive. So it's a photographer's dream. Yeah. Down there.

Paul Atkins 3:55

Yeah, yeah. It's so beautiful. And with all of the, you were saying to me earlier, we're talking about the hot springs and it's just the most amazing. You don't expect it. You think you're in the middle of the desert with nothing. Yeah. And suddenly you come across these like these little, What's for a better term? Little gems, little oases of reed beds and hot water.

Colleen Raven Strangways 4:16

So another reason the area is what it's known for, not just because of the big salt lake, but because there's a lot of mound springs. So one of them that's really well known is the bubbler, which is what we call the Wamakadabal. And what that means is… It's this great big spring that comes down from the aquifer of the Great Artesian Basin. And it makes its way up over millions of years. And then you get this spring on top of a mound. And then because womba means snake, so when you look at the bubbler and it bubbles on the surface, but it does this big twisty kind of– snake-like movement in the water. You can wear a snake or something's coming up. And, you know, when you see it for the first time, you get goosebumps.

Paul Atkins 5:14

Oh, wow.

Colleen Raven Strangways 5:15

Because you swear there's something coming up from the depth of it up. So, yeah, so it's pretty amazing. And we've got a lot of those little mound springs along the way, and it is an oasis. And, you know, you think, oh, it's desert country and it's flat, it's low scrub. But then you come across these amazing areas.

Paul Atkins 5:34

That was my experience in a place that we will assume, you know, you go through the centre of Australia that it's just nothing, but it's everything.

Colleen Raven Strangways 5:41

Teeming with life.

Paul Atkins 5:42

Yeah, yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 5:42

Teeming with life. So

Paul Atkins 5:43

your dad was born? My

Colleen Raven Strangways 5:44

dad was born in, you know, so he was born under a tree. Yep. So, and, you know, it was done as a, it was a very traditional birth.

Paul Atkins 5:52

Yep.

Colleen Raven Strangways 5:53

So he had his aunties and his mother there as midwives and, oh, you know, of course his mother was there. No, get me, get me jumping from. What am I talking about? But he had his aunties there. She was

Paul Atkins 6:09

present.

Colleen Raven Strangways 6:10

Yes.

Paul Atkins 6:11

She wasn't passed out. I hope she was. My poor mum, I was a caesarean. My mum was passed out when I was born. She wasn't present.

Colleen Raven Strangways 6:20

She probably went, oh, my God, thank God.

Paul Atkins 6:21

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 6:22

Because I had an epidural and I was just like, oh, thank God.

Paul Atkins 6:26

Yeah, yeah. Well, she said I woke up and there was a little baby in my arms. It was beautiful. Beautiful. She said I went to sleep and I woke up and had a baby. Didn't have to worry about the pain. Oh, my God, yeah. So your mum was present for a natural birth, yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 6:37

Yeah, yeah. So he was born under a tree and then, you know, he was then, you know, put fat on him and then he smoked and then the placenta is buried in the country. So that ties him to his country. And then he grew up very traditional. He grew up in a humpy. They wandered all over that country. He actually saw the first Europeans to come through. And I don't mean English. He saw the first, like, the Greeks. The Dutch. Afghans. Yeah, and the Afghans because Mari was the first settlement for... The Afghanis. Camel

Paul Atkins 7:15

trains and all that.

Colleen Raven Strangways 7:15

Well, not only that, but the mosque. It was the first mosque, Afghani mosque. I didn't realize that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so he started to see all them for the first time come through. And that was building the, you know, because of the railways. He then eventually, you know, learned English at 14. And then he went on to work at the railways, which then brought in Taylor Springs, where he met my mother.

Paul Atkins 7:41

Oh, she's a railway person

Colleen Raven Strangways 7:42

too. Yeah, so we grew up in the railway houses in Alice Springs. Yeah.

Paul Atkins 7:46

Fabulous. And your mum is from further north?

Colleen Raven Strangways 7:49

Yeah, so she's Moolbada. So, well, Moolbada, but we got blood ties into, so Wayfield, Pigeonhole, Monagetti, Catherine. So what that means is, so we're Gurindji, Wolpri, which comes through Yindamoo as well. Yep. And so they kind of met in Alice Springs and fell in love and had us. Lucky them.

Paul Atkins 8:14

So how many brothers and sisters do

Colleen Raven Strangways 8:16

you have? I'm the middle child,

Paul Atkins 8:18

so

Colleen Raven Strangways 8:18

I'm the most vocal. You're the peacemaker. Or the show-off. Show-off. And then I've got an older brother and younger brother, and then I've got my half-sister. Oh,

Paul Atkins 8:29

lovely. Lovely, lovely. Okay, so that covers that. Now tell me, who gave you a camera? What happened?

Colleen Raven Strangways 8:35

Well, my mum– Going back, like mum had a Polaroid camera back in the

Paul Atkins 8:40

70s. Oh, really? Well, like an S70, those pop-up ones. Yeah,

Colleen Raven Strangways 8:45

pop-up ones. And I just took off with it. And I just loved it. I always loved looking for the albums, looking at the black and white photos. I was just like just amazed at these photos. And then when she came with the– you know, the Polaroid camera, I was just like, I'm taking this and so she allowed me to take it off and, you know, I was taking all these photos of family and, you know, other areas and it kind of, you know, life went on and, you know, I kind of I always loved it, though. It went to the wayside. And it wasn't until when I had my boys.

Paul Atkins 9:22

Isn't that funny? Yeah. Not many people have that experience. Because I found, sorry to stop your story, but it wasn't until I wasn't taking photos at all. When you have kids, you see real magic happen. Yeah. And, you know, you want to see it. You want to. grab it and keep it. And for me, photography, I got back into it again after that because life before that, you know.

Colleen Raven Strangways 9:42

It gets busy. It

Paul Atkins 9:43

gets busy.

Colleen Raven Strangways 9:44

And plus when you're growing up, then, you know, you're out in the world and, you know, you're learning about the world. You're busy. So then, you know, when your life slows down when you have kids, you know, so to speak, that's when you go, oh, you know, I really want to get into photography. Yeah. Do

Paul Atkins 10:04

you think it's that thing that you discovered those photos with your mum's Polaroid and do you feel like that was that thing you saw them, you felt what was happening by looking at the Polaroids and you wanted to continue that thing?

Colleen Raven Strangways 10:18

Oh, the emotion.

Paul Atkins 10:19

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 10:19

The emotion, like the smiling faces.

Paul Atkins 10:22

Like for your kids perhaps.

Colleen Raven Strangways 10:23

Yeah, well, yeah, but also just that feeling you get by looking at photos. Yeah. you go, who are these people? And I wonder what they were doing. I wonder who they were and what situation were they in? And they look happy in that photo, but you know, and they're out there on the country or they're doing this and there's this whole world you're peeking into. And that always excited me, you know, like this, it's a still photo, but had all this, You know, layers to it.

Paul Atkins 10:54

It's like a little hint of something else that you just think you understand.

Colleen Raven Strangways 10:58

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 10:59

We get told about our past and media and whatever and that kind of stuff and you, you know, you think this is what's happening and then you see something like that and it kind of messes with that, the stories and all that sort of thing. You see your own understanding of that. Yeah. Coming to play. Okay, that's cool.

Colleen Raven Strangways 11:12

Yeah, and you also see like if you see pictures of your parents when they were young.

Paul Atkins 11:16

Oh, I love that.

Colleen Raven Strangways 11:17

You know.

Paul Atkins 11:17

And love. And love and

Colleen Raven Strangways 11:19

all that sort of stuff and you go– what was it like for them back then? And just looking at the photos and all these questions come to mind and, you know, and you sort of, I don't know, I don't know if you put in your own biases when you look at it.

Paul Atkins 11:35

I think we all bring that. It's content. We

Colleen Raven Strangways 11:36

do, don't we? Yeah.

Paul Atkins 11:38

Yeah, yeah. So you had your kids. You got yourself a camera.

Colleen Raven Strangways 11:41

Yeah, so I had my boys and they were 22 months apart and I was bored as hell.

Paul Atkins 11:45

They're boring things, kids. They lie like a slug, don't they?

Colleen Raven Strangways 11:49

Well, because when they were babies and then one would be asleep and one would be running amok or when both of them was asleep, then I kind of, you know, It was like, well, what

Paul Atkins 12:02

do I do? Time between the two for the eldest to be useful.

Colleen Raven Strangways 12:05

Exactly, exactly. They were both babies. And so I was just like, oh, I needed something to do. So I thought, oh, I'll look on eBay for a camera because I had a– A Canon Power Shoot.

Paul Atkins 12:21

Oh, yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 12:21

And I was like, oh, I'm having a bit of fun with that. And I'm like, but it's not doing what I wanted it to do. I wanted to get that blurred background and do all this, you know, cool stuff with it. And it wasn't doing it. So I looked on eBay and I found a old Nikon D90.

Paul Atkins 12:38

Oh, cool.

Colleen Raven Strangways 12:38

Isn't

Paul Atkins 12:39

that a great camera?

Colleen Raven Strangways 12:40

Oh, yeah. It was my first awesome camera.

Paul Atkins 12:43

So what year would this have been?

Colleen Raven Strangways 12:44

Oh, this was back in– 16 years ago? Yeah, yeah, yeah, easy. Oh, more than that. Probably– Yeah, about 16, 17 years ago.

Paul Atkins 12:52

Yeah, right.

Colleen Raven Strangways 12:53

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 12:54

I'm trying to work out because we did talk about how old your kids are.

Colleen Raven Strangways 12:56

Yeah, that's right. But it was probably 2007, that kind of, you know, time. And so I got the camera and– but it was under, you know, it was being sold really cheap because it was– there was something wrong with it. It was

Paul Atkins 13:12

– Oh, right.

Colleen Raven Strangways 13:14

So they had it under to be repaired.

Paul Atkins 13:16

I see.

Colleen Raven Strangways 13:17

I think I thought, oh– I'll get it and see, you know, if I

Paul Atkins 13:20

can fix it. Because what, you're a camera tech as well, are you?

Colleen Raven Strangways 13:22

No, but I'm that type of person that will just try. Give

Paul Atkins 13:26

it a go. Give it a go. I don't know what you paid for it, $50? Oh,

Colleen Raven Strangways 13:29

it was like, back then it was like $1,500. Yeah, for a

Paul Atkins 13:34

new one.

Colleen Raven Strangways 13:35

But I got it for, I think it was $600.

Paul Atkins 13:39

It'd be worth the try.

Colleen Raven Strangways 13:40

Yeah, yeah, right. But when I got it, there was nothing wrong with it. Absolutely zero wrong with it. Was

Paul Atkins 13:45

it like just a dead battery or something?

Colleen Raven Strangways 13:47

I don't know what was wrong with it, but it worked for me.

Paul Atkins 13:51

So you became the camera repair person. Yeah, so I took it. I thought,

Colleen Raven Strangways 13:56

well, it was meant to be. That's how I saw it. I was meant to get it. And it was, you know, amazing first camera because I learned so much on it. Looking back at it now, because I've got the Z7 now.

Paul Atkins 14:09

Oh, really?

Colleen Raven Strangways 14:09

So

Paul Atkins 14:10

you've gone full mirrorless?

Colleen Raven Strangways 14:11

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I haven't done

Paul Atkins 14:13

that yet. That's scary.

Colleen Raven Strangways 14:14

No, I love it. I love it. I love it. But just looking at what I have now compared to what I had then, it's like, oh, my God, this is so basic back then, you

Paul Atkins 14:23

know? I know, I know, I know.

Colleen Raven Strangways 14:24

You know? But it was still an amazing camera and I learnt so much on it.

Paul Atkins 14:28

Yeah, so you then, at some stage you decided that I could, sell some pictures.

Colleen Raven Strangways 14:34

Yeah, because I went into, again, when my boys were little, I went into the shopping centre and those pixie photos were there. And, you know, they suck you into it. They really do. And so I said, oh, and my boys look so cute, you know. And they said, but you don't have to buy anything. We'll give you one picture for free. And I went,

Paul Atkins 14:52

oh,

Colleen Raven Strangways 14:53

okay. Yeah, yeah. Free sitting, free five by five. I know, but then $600 later, you know, and you think, oh, but I just looked at them and thought, they're great, but I reckon I can do better.

Paul Atkins 15:03

Yeah, yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 15:03

You know? And so that was also the whole premise. This is just before getting that camera. So that kind of pulled me over the line. Oh, right. Getting that camera because I was looking at it.

Paul Atkins 15:13

Yeah, yeah. You thought if I can do that and you can do a better job.

Colleen Raven Strangways 15:16

I can do it. I can do it. Totally. Totally. So but I found out quickly that I couldn't do it. It was a big learning curve. Right. You know, going from something like. How do you

Paul Atkins 15:27

learn? Like that's because. Okay, can I just say, interrupt, looking at your work now, it's really, like studio lighting outside, you've got a level of work that very few people kind of get to. And I don't know how you got from mucking around with that to where you are now. I mean, it's not that many years, but you've picked up a hell of a lot. Did you do formal education?

Colleen Raven Strangways 15:49

No, no, it's all self-taught. On

Paul Atkins 15:52

YouTube and stuff?

Colleen Raven Strangways 15:52

Yeah, so when the kids were asleep, just on YouTube. on YouTube, YouTube and just trial and error. So I remember going into cash converters, just looking at some cheap lens and there was another guy there and he was also looking at some cheap lens because I think what he was doing was doing a turnover, getting them lens, selling them on eBay and then doing a quick turnaround. I said, oh, you know, just learning, just picking it up. And I'm just– the exposure triangle's just doing my head in. I'm just not getting it. Just not getting it. You know, and he goes, don't worry, keep going. It will happen.

Paul Atkins 16:31

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 16:32

And I went, oh, I don't know about that. And so I was using the camera on my boys, on anything really. I just wanted to learn. I just had this driving force to learn. And

Paul Atkins 16:42

it's your favourite stuff, people photography?

Colleen Raven Strangways 16:44

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so I was just taking pictures of everyone and everything. But I wasn't getting this exposure, like this whole balance,

Paul Atkins 16:55

you

Colleen Raven Strangways 16:55

know, because I was seeing these other images going, this is where I want to get to.

Paul Atkins 16:59

But what was inspiring you? What sort of work or whose sort of work?

Colleen Raven Strangways 17:02

It was all kinds of work. Like I was going on to, you know, Facebook group pages, but also, oh, what was that? There was that whole series. Oh, man, I forgot. I don't know if it's still coming.

Paul Atkins 17:19

Well, I can remember. You can always send me. We'll put a link into the show notes later. Do

Colleen Raven Strangways 17:22

you remember that it was a web series and it had all these different photographers that used to go on to present and teach you? Oh, yeah. Do you

Paul Atkins 17:34

remember that? Creative Live.

Colleen Raven Strangways 17:35

Yes, Creative Live.

Paul Atkins 17:36

Yeah, yeah. I remember people used to run that.

Colleen Raven Strangways 17:39

Yeah, so I used to go on that all the time.

Paul Atkins 17:41

Right.

Colleen Raven Strangways 17:42

And just learn. Get a

Paul Atkins 17:44

Klosterman and she would bring another guest. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 17:47

And that was so good because I learned a lot from that as well. But I want to, you know, get to that level as well. I

Paul Atkins 17:54

mean, when I look at it, I think it's really editorial, magazine, commercial sort of stuff that if, you know, like– you know, almost stuff that you might see in the Weekend magazine or something like that. So you just kept shooting to try and get that blending of the ambient light and the studio flash.

Colleen Raven Strangways 18:13

Yeah, because even before I got my SBs, you know.

Paul Atkins 18:21

Speedlights.

Colleen Raven Strangways 18:22

Yeah, the speedlights.

Paul Atkins 18:23

Yep.

Colleen Raven Strangways 18:24

And I tried to put that into the mix and learn about that and I think, You know, that's when it was all starting to kind of click in. And one day, all of a sudden, I just went, shit, I got the exposure triangle.

Paul Atkins 18:40

You worked out what two stops under and what not. Yeah, yeah, I

Colleen Raven Strangways 18:43

started to work

Paul Atkins 18:43

that. It's harder with digital because there's so much more. You've got to be more careful.

Colleen Raven Strangways 18:47

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 18:48

But you see it instantly, I suppose.

Colleen Raven Strangways 18:49

Yeah, you see it instantly and you can adjust. But the thing is that…

Paul Atkins 18:53

So the speed light was the secret to making that easier, was it? Well,

Colleen Raven Strangways 18:57

a little bit because then… I could see that when I used my flash, if it was too bright or underexposed or overexposed, I can then see in real time what was going on, opposed to when I was just taking it without the speedlights.

Paul Atkins 19:13

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 19:13

I don't know why, but it just triggered that in me a bit more. So, yeah, so that did make a difference. But also I started– because I started putting it out on Facebook, then I started getting– um, you know, local Aboriginal organisations such as Nunkuwarrin Yunti and NAIDOC wanted to engage. So, um, so they engaged with me and I was still green as hell. That would have been a bit scary. Oh, it was, it was daunting, absolutely daunting, but I didn't want to say no either.

Paul Atkins 19:44

Yeah, I know. That's a really tough thing to do to make that decision because you know that's the path.

Colleen Raven Strangways 19:50

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 19:51

But like you don't want to let people down or look like a

Colleen Raven Strangways 19:53

goose. So it was fake it till you make it kind of thing. But it was like so unnerving.

Paul Atkins 19:58

You've got some courage.

Colleen Raven Strangways 19:59

Yeah. But kudos to them, like especially with Nunc because they knew I was green but they stuck with me. Yeah, right. And they used me in their campaigns. And then they got me again and again, which gave me confidence. And then through NAIDOC, I learned to shoot on the fly. Like I had to learn like that to like different shooting scenarios from going from outside to inside. And then, you know, people were presenting shots. People were getting their wards or whatever. I needed to move real, real quick. So that was a big learning curve.

Paul Atkins 20:34

Hey, by the way, for those who are from out of Australia, what does NAIDOC mean?

Colleen Raven Strangways 20:38

So NAIDOC is the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Observance Day, so all week. And so we just had NAIDOC. Yes. And so that just means a celebration of who we are and our achievements. And it's also, you know, just elevating knowledge you know, us on that stage to just celebrate it basically. And, you know, what we're doing, you know, forging the path for others or standing out or, you know, like, you know, with.

Paul Atkins 21:09

I mean, having that stuff in all of yours. Yeah. You know, with the families and the stories on the panels as well. Yeah. Put a link to the photos of it in there. So, you know, they're really beautiful and they're really, I think they help people connect because the mall is just you walk and you walk and you, You're not thinking too much. And you see these great big panels. Yeah. Stunning pictures in them.

Colleen Raven Strangways 21:28

No, thanks, Paul. Yeah, because you know what daunts me is that there's a lot of people out there who haven't met Aboriginal people. Yeah. And I'm like, really? Really? And I'm just so daunted by that. So these images that were placed in the mould during NAIDOC week were I hope really shows that we're still here and we're still practicing our culture and we're still very strong. And there's a lot of beauty in our culture. And I wanted to share that with everyone, basically.

Paul Atkins 21:57

So that's your drive now?

Colleen Raven Strangways 21:58

That's always been my

Paul Atkins 21:59

drive. That's your why? Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 22:01

You

Paul Atkins 22:01

know, like if you were to boil yourself down and go, what am I doing here?

Colleen Raven Strangways 22:05

Well, because, you know, back in, you know, growing up, you know, because I'm a child of the 70s, so... Growing up, all we saw as kids was photographs of Aboriginal people who were down and out, despairing, drunk, alcoholics, you know, up at Centrelink or whatever. You know, it was always a negative.

Paul Atkins 22:29

Yep.

Colleen Raven Strangways 22:29

But I knew different.

Paul Atkins 22:31

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 22:31

I knew what my family and, you know, my culture is. And so, you know, that part is unique to everybody, you know, that side of things. Yeah. but it was only such a small part.

Paul Atkins 22:44

I know, it's just poverty in general. It is, right? It's like there's many cultures within poverty. That's why poverty is the enemy, really.

Colleen Raven Strangways 22:51

It is.

Paul Atkins 22:52

Because it just happens to be that the mix-up in Australia here has been the cultures have been combined of the idea of poverty and

Colleen Raven Strangways 22:58

indigenous. Right, yeah, exactly. So it also feeds into that racism as well, you know. For

Paul Atkins 23:04

sure. And

Colleen Raven Strangways 23:04

that stereotyping. And

Paul Atkins 23:06

it's particularly bad here in Australia.

Colleen Raven Strangways 23:07

Oh, it is. It is. And so it's something to change, though, because I'm not the only Aboriginal photographer. There's many, many of

Paul Atkins 23:16

us. Now, there's a group, a lens group.

Colleen Raven Strangways 23:17

Yeah, Black Lens.

Paul Atkins 23:18

Black Lens. Now, when did I hear about that? On another podcast, at any rate.

Colleen Raven Strangways 23:22

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 23:23

Recently. But anyway, so that's a group of Indigenous photographers.

Colleen Raven Strangways 23:27

All around Australia, yes.

Paul Atkins 23:28

Cool.

Colleen Raven Strangways 23:29

Yeah, and so we're doing, you know, different kind of, you know, types of photography, you know, all different. But we're also… the same in the aspect of showing our strong culture and putting it out there. And it is changing that landscape or that narrative.

Paul Atkins 23:50

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 23:50

which I'm really happy about because other people are seeing what we're seeing and what we know it to be. Yeah,

Paul Atkins 23:56

yeah. You know? So if people are looking for cultural photographs or stuff to be captured of the culture, obviously the best place to go would be members of the culture. Yeah. Because they can show you the proper inside, you know. And so this is a bit of a like– when I went to the website, I had a look around. So if you were in South Australia or West Australia, you click on the link and you could see the photographers there and contact them.

Colleen Raven Strangways 24:18

Yeah, 100%, which is really good because– And, you know, you've got someone that is shooting through a black lens and knows protocols, knows, you know, how to move in community, who to talk to, but also how to capture that in the best way.

Paul Atkins 24:34

Can we talk a bit more about that? Because I know trampling on culture is something like no one, I don't think anyone actually wants to ever do that, no matter what they think or say. I think everyone wants to be, you know, kind of respectful. So what sort of things are we talking about?

Colleen Raven Strangways 24:49

So, you know, like as a woman photographer, photographing men, there's protocols around that, what I can and can't do. And, you know, for any woman, you know, especially when you go into a community, you know, in your taking photos, you've got to be very respectful and you've got to know what you're taking photos of as well and what can be shown, what can't be shown, you know, like, and it's different for all different Aboriginal groups as well. So, yeah. You know, there might be places where you're not allowed to go to. Is

Paul Atkins 25:22

that tough being from where you're from, talking to a Nairnjeri? Because would you know what to do there in their country?

Colleen Raven Strangways 25:29

So if I go to a different mob's country, you know. You know who to ask. Yeah, so I go and I make sure they're a point of contact for me and I make sure that they're either with me or they give me guidance of where I can and can't go. Yep. But also, you know, we're a small group. Well, we was talking about Paul. Yeah, yeah. South Australia's a small, we kind of know each other.

Paul Atkins 25:52

Yeah, yeah, you're a small set of a small set. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 25:55

So we kind of all know each other and we all, you know, so we make sure we speak to the elders and make sure that we have their blessing before doing anything as well. So there's a lot there and, you know, like, and especially, you know, males taking photos of females. Mm-hmm. There's a whole set of protocols there as well. You

Paul Atkins 26:18

should be there in every

Colleen Raven Strangways 26:19

culture. How are they showing themselves? How are they taking photos of the females? Is it in a sexually explicit way or pose, opposed to something that's strong and cultural? That should

Paul Atkins 26:34

be for every culture. I

Colleen Raven Strangways 26:36

look at some of the photography groups and I shake my head at some of the so-called male photographers on there. And it's all sexualised.

Paul Atkins 26:48

It is.

Colleen Raven Strangways 26:48

And so I had to get off those groups because it was just too much because it's like, well, where's the dignity for these women?

Paul Atkins 26:55

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 26:55

And then, you know, there was a lot of them that was also taking photos of the Native American headdress on these white women. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like that's so culturally offensive. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and you're sort of like dismissing The protocols and–

Paul Atkins 27:14

You're not even checking in.

Colleen Raven Strangways 27:15

No. But then you've got these groups that are saying they don't want any criticism about, you know, the model or the headdress. They just talk about the lighting and the photo. But no. It's all part of it. It's all part of it and they shouldn't be doing it and there should be education around that. And it's the same here in Australia. Like, you know, you don't– if you've got traditional women– and their body, the top half of their body is painted, you make sure it's okay with them that they're photographed, but you do it in a way that's very, you know, respectful, you know, and keeping with culture. Yeah, so.

Paul Atkins 27:55

That's great. That's so interesting. And it's so important. I mean, cultural tourism is such a huge opportunity for all cultures, but particularly for our Indigenous culture. And I think this is one of the things that's going to be– going forward for Australia is going to be a big thing. It has to be handled very, very carefully because a lot of people go into this thinking, well, they've seen the photographs of National Geographic in the 50s. Yeah, yeah. So let's just do that, huh? You know, like, you know.

Colleen Raven Strangways 28:21

Yeah, it's so different, right? Totally different. It's so, so different where– I think back then it was sort of almost act of voyeurism, you know, and just coming in without, you know, without acceptance. They were just coming in and just doing it without, you know, that approval. And

Paul Atkins 28:37

so that's when you've got protected lands, you get permission to go to those lands. So at that point of getting permission, is that where the cultural– I'm just thinking as a photographer, like myself and just going to head off on my land cruise and go and explore and see, you get permission to go– on the APY lands, and I need a reason to be there. And then at that stage, I would be told what's appropriate and what's inappropriate.

Colleen Raven Strangways 29:00

Absolutely. And you ask for that guidance as well.

Paul Atkins 29:03

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 29:03

Like, for instance, here, the Okapuranga River, that's a woman's area. So I normally ask, you know, the elders, the women elders of Ghana, and say, look, I'm going to take a whole series of photos down there of these women. Is that okay? And would you like to come? So then you can oversee it. I love it. And then you can also add to it as an elder. Yeah. And so I'm always guided by the elders of that country.

Paul Atkins 29:28

Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful.

Colleen Raven Strangways 29:29

Yeah. And so the other thing is that I don't apply the paint on the bodies. So I normally– because every, you know, ceremonial paint is different between different groups. Yep. So mine's going to be different from yours. And it also identifies who you're from. Yeah. I don't know if you know Uncle Mugi Sumner. Yeah, yeah. Look at his, you know– his paint work that he does, that identifies him to his country.

Paul Atkins 29:57

Yep.

Colleen Raven Strangways 29:57

You know? And so I get them, either a family member or someone from that area, to do it for them. Yep. So I don't do it.

Paul Atkins 30:09

Well... Or

Colleen Raven Strangways 30:09

they do it themselves. Yeah. Because it'd be wrong of me to do it.

Paul Atkins 30:13

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely fascinating. So is it like... Like as a non-Indigenous person wanting to be involved in photograph, you know, being a part of cultural tourism, where would I start? Like let's say I want to go and I want to– because I've been to the Onkaparinga area. It's a stunning bit of land. It's a beautiful estuary. What's appropriate? Like if I was to photograph people down there and I wanted to, would I contact the– Where would I start?

Colleen Raven Strangways 30:44

So corporations is a good one. So the Aboriginal corporations. So you look for the, like, you know, it's Kaurna country. So you go, well, I'll either contact the Kaurna corporation or I'll contact the council because normally in the council they'll

Paul Atkins 30:59

point you in the right direction as well. Yeah, they do have arts officers and Indigenous

Colleen Raven Strangways 31:02

liaisons. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then you can ask for, oh, who's an elder, a woman elder or a male elder that I can speak to?

Paul Atkins 31:09

Yep. Yep. So at what stage would you choose to do that over just doing a nice landscape photo down there?

Colleen Raven Strangways 31:15

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 31:15

But do you think it's always appropriate to approach and find out what's–

Colleen Raven Strangways 31:18

Well, it depends on– like if you're doing a landscape photo, what– What story do you want to tell in that landscape?

Paul Atkins 31:24

Well, that's a very good point, isn't it? Because we know that area is part of Chilbrookie Trail we were talking about earlier, which is a part of the real beauty. Once you hear that story, it's a part of the– and it changes the entire meaning of that area when you see that story. And so I think if I went down there now knowing that story, I would be thinking about it when I take that photo. But

Colleen Raven Strangways 31:43

also that you know it's a woman's area.

Paul Atkins 31:45

Yeah, right.

Colleen Raven Strangways 31:45

That area. So then when you do the landscape photo– you'll be looking for those aspects within that photo to showcase that in a subtle or even a major way.

Paul Atkins 31:56

That's

Colleen Raven Strangways 31:56

wild. So, you know, that's something then you go back and say, look, is there an area that I can't take a photo of or is it okay to sort of take a photo but then hint out some of the Jaboukie areas or even the women's areas to sort of showcase that in this? Yeah. So, you know, for instance... You know, I was actually talking about this to someone the other day, like when we see an old tree and it's all old and bendy, we either call that a grandfather tree or a grandmother tree.

Paul Atkins 32:25

Right.

Colleen Raven Strangways 32:26

By the feeling we get from it.

Paul Atkins 32:28

Oh, really?

Colleen Raven Strangways 32:29

And so then you would take a photo to enhance that.

Paul Atkins 32:34

Yeah, right.

Colleen Raven Strangways 32:34

So then, you know what I mean, you get the spirit of the tree then and the landscape around it.

Paul Atkins 32:39

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's fascinating. Fascinating. Oh, that's challenging. Tell me, with trees like that, are they known? I mean, I see you get a feeling. Would one person get a different feeling from another person? Or would that tree be known as a grandmother tree?

Colleen Raven Strangways 32:52

Well, it's not known. You just get the feeling. I can't describe it. You just go, yeah, that's a–

Paul Atkins 32:58

That's so beautiful.

Colleen Raven Strangways 32:59

That's a male energy or that's a female energy. You just get it.

Paul Atkins 33:03

That's so

Colleen Raven Strangways 33:03

beautiful. Yeah, and I can't describe it. But I think, you know, like I was with a whole other group of mob– down at the Ghana Living Centre and, you know, we looked at it and said, yeah, that's definitely a male energy. But we all felt it.

Paul Atkins 33:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 33:20

Yeah. So then, therefore, you would photograph it in a strong way or more of a softer way, depending.

Paul Atkins 33:26

Yeah, right, right. Yeah. Okay. So let's wind back. In the beginning I said I first saw your work at the Ballarat International Photo Biennale. I wanted to know how, like, how you got– Like that's our national stage for photography. That

Colleen Raven Strangways 33:40

was amazing.

Paul Atkins 33:41

And you had a space in this gallery. And tell us, describe to the listeners what you showed there. Because we're seeing that work is being shown here in Adelaide at Railway Station.

Colleen Raven Strangways 33:51

It's like a showstopper. Yep. And I'm really proud of that work. It's the UV Songlines series. And so… It was done in my little kitchen. I've got a little housing trust place and this whole room we're sitting in is probably bigger than my house. So I just– yeah, I always wanted to do a blacklight portrait. Yes. Where it's showing– because something that we do when we do ceremonies is that we sing the body paint on and that tells your story that– that shows people who you are within that kingship system.

Paul Atkins 34:30

Okay.

Colleen Raven Strangways 34:31

And people don't know about it or they're not privy to it. So that's done in a real traditional way. So I wanted to show that in a very artistic way. So I got people I knew. I said, right, this is what I'm doing. You want to help me out?

Paul Atkins 34:51

Yeah, because a lot of experimenting, because you're photographing with UV light. Yeah. But you also need to make photographs where the people are recognisable as humans and not just glowing strips of paint.

Colleen Raven Strangways 35:01

Yeah, yeah. So we made sure we– it takes hours. So what my process is is that we're in my little kitchen and I move in the little hallway, I move the stuff out, put a big black sheet up there and I went to– Bunnies to get the ballots. Oh, yeah. And then I went and got the blacklight tubes and just put that on either side and got them in there. And, yeah, and then I just put like a bit of a spotlight on their face so you can see their

Paul Atkins 35:39

face. Okay, so that's a trick.

Colleen Raven Strangways 35:40

Yeah. Okay. But everything else is glowing. And

Paul Atkins 35:43

is the paint their traditional paint that's glowing or special?

Colleen Raven Strangways 35:45

No, it's the UV reactive paint.

Paul Atkins 35:48

Okay, okay.

Colleen Raven Strangways 35:49

But it's telling their story on their body.

Paul Atkins 35:51

Yeah, cool.

Colleen Raven Strangways 35:52

So it's– I wanted to do it in the glow or the UV light because I wanted to show that spirituality. It

Paul Atkins 36:01

does kind of radiate. And I would think, you know, like they say dogs see things differently because they've got this different cones and rods in their eyes. You wonder, you know, spiritually, obviously the paint means something. And so you're showing that extra dimension that we can't see but perhaps feel.

Colleen Raven Strangways 36:18

Yeah, and just getting that spirituality out, you know, and just showing that. the beauty again the beauty of it and um you know one day took eight hours eight hours just just us just talking while we and we did the full body painted her full body and while she was telling her story and just yarning she was pregnant and um

Paul Atkins 36:40

did you record the conversation or write any of it down or

Colleen Raven Strangways 36:43

no we did like behind the scenes but yeah we had fun and We play music when we, you know, and that's all part of my mad process too because I want people to have fun when they're with me.

Paul Atkins 36:54

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 36:54

You know, and we can just be as mad as anything and play country music, Dolly Parton, Charlie Pryde, you know, Slim Dusty. Perfect. You know, or it can be anything. But the main thing is that you relax. You know, we'll have a table full of, you know, just, Chocolate chicken, chips or whatever. And just graze and just have fun.

Paul Atkins 37:17

Yeah, yeah. Eight hours, that's a long shift. Yeah, yeah. But that's nice. I mean, you can imagine if someone's going through make-up for that period, like it would be pretty exhausting. Yeah. If you make it fun and it's a collaboration.

Colleen Raven Strangways 37:27

Yeah, absolutely. And one young fellow, Zane, I had this idea of having him gold with the gold glitter and just doing something like that. And so we– We did his portrait. Then we said, right, let's add your gold now, put the glitter on you. And we actually glued his eyelids shut. Oh, my God. He could not move or anything. So we guided him to his seat and I took the picture. I went, you know what, that'll look better black and white. And that's probably one of the photos you saw at Ballarat, the sparkly one. But it looks like he's among stars.

Paul Atkins 38:09

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Yeah. Or when you see a campfire and you see the sparks rising.

Colleen Raven Strangways 38:17

Yeah, exactly,

Paul Atkins 38:18

exactly.

Colleen Raven Strangways 38:20

So we turned that into black and white and it looked amazing. But he had a good hour or so in the showers trying to open his eyes and scrub all this glitter off. Oh, boy. But, you know, suffer for your art.

Paul Atkins 38:34

So then you, so those you then printed on a backlit.

Colleen Raven Strangways 38:38

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 38:38

So they had this extra glow to them.

Colleen Raven Strangways 38:40

Oh, it looked, and it is like, like I've had people, like we had it at the Benally, but then it came to Adelaide for Tarnity.

Paul Atkins 38:50

Yep.

Colleen Raven Strangways 38:51

And we had people just stop and go, I don't normally stop, but I've seen your photos and I just have to come in and have a look. because they were just glowing off.

Paul Atkins 39:01

I've never seen anything like it.

Colleen Raven Strangways 39:02

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 39:03

It was really special.

Colleen Raven Strangways 39:04

Yeah, so now we've got a new series that people haven't seen, and that's down at the train station in the old telephone booth down at the train station. That's just been installed.

Paul Atkins 39:14

Yeah, well, you showed me the video this morning, which is just like literally yesterday.

Colleen Raven Strangways 39:18

Yeah, and from what I've been told, they look their life size, so it looks like there's people behind the glass just glowing. So it's almost like there's glass. go see spiritual thing. And people are already stopping when they're installing it and going, oh, my God, what are these? These look amazing.

Paul Atkins 39:37

That's cool. Do you feel like now you're going to have to keep making that stuff? Because, you know, we make something and we think it's really cool and suddenly you're stuck with it.

Colleen Raven Strangways 39:45

No. So I don't know about you, Paul, but if my brain's like my computer at home where I've got like 100 tabs open,

Paul Atkins 39:53

like no i'm different my wife has that she's like she's like a tab lady yeah and i'm like no i close one and i'm not quite like that

Colleen Raven Strangways 40:01

oh and i know and she'll be like this too like i know exactly which tab and i need them all open

Paul Atkins 40:08

i calibrated a lady's screen because we do a bit of monitor calibration and she said i said we might need to restart your computer she said oh and i said Why? She said, I'm worried about losing all my tabs. And I said, well, it should remember them, right? Like that's the idea of software. Anyway, I did her and it didn't. And I lost all her tabs. And she was so sad and I was so, I felt sick inside. But I thought the browsers kept. You monster. I know. Like I've ruined her life probably. All the research. It

Colleen Raven Strangways 40:38

would break my heart if that happened to me. That's what they

Paul Atkins 40:40

call bookmarks.

Colleen Raven Strangways 40:41

I know. I know. I know. And I have used it. But then, you know, like luckily my computer just died. and it has it all there. But I'm already on to the next creative

Paul Atkins 40:53

part. I get

Colleen Raven Strangways 40:54

that.

Paul Atkins 40:55

It's not ADHD or anything, is it?

Colleen Raven Strangways 40:57

Probably. That and too much coffee.

Paul Atkins 41:00

You know, speaking of that, I interviewed Emma Hack last.

Colleen Raven Strangways 41:02

Oh, I love Emma.

Paul Atkins 41:03

Emma's gorgeous. She's worked it out. That's her issue. She said, I've been diagnosed. She said, but I just cannot. I have to hop onto the next thing.

Colleen Raven Strangways 41:11

She would have looked through the internet and go, tick, tick, that's me. Yep, tick, tick, tick. Yep, I'm exactly like that. One project ends and you're onto the next one.

Paul Atkins 41:21

Yeah, I am definitely like that. And I think, and I don't know whether, I mean, ADHD is a great little adjective. It doesn't mean we've all got it, but it means that when you're- Levels of it. Yeah, we do. It's a spectrum, right? And you get excited by something and then suddenly you're doing something else. You know, like I was playing with that. tin type stuff. And like, I haven't shot one. Well, I shot one a few weeks ago, but I hadn't shot one for a year before that. And I was like, you just get onto something else. Yeah. You try and focus. The thing is, it's trying to finish things. I know. I'm terrible at that too. Well, are you though? Because you did that show for Ballarat.

Colleen Raven Strangways 41:55

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 41:55

Right. And, and art gallery of South Australia were behind a bit of that or they bought it back. What happened?

Colleen Raven Strangways 41:59

Yeah. Yeah. No, it was amazing. So like I said, for Tarnity, they, they, um, They brought it back to Adelaide and that was really, really well received again. It

Paul Atkins 42:09

was.

Colleen Raven Strangways 42:10

And so then that's all the canvases or the light boxes sitting in my lounge room, taking up space. You

Paul Atkins 42:20

need a bigger house.

Colleen Raven Strangways 42:21

Yeah, I do. I do need a bigger house. And so now it's going to the train station, which is fantastic. Which is great.

Paul Atkins 42:30

What do you want as a National Portrait Gallery to go? Hello.

Colleen Raven Strangways 42:33

Yeah, hello. Can you hear that?

Paul Atkins 42:36

You'd give it to them though, wouldn't you? Like, yeah, I know. Yeah. It's just one of those things.

Colleen Raven Strangways 42:41

But I'm also funny like about exhibiting. I don't really like it.

Paul Atkins 42:45

Now tell me why, what's that all about?

Colleen Raven Strangways 42:47

I don't like, I like being the creative force, but I don't like being in the spotlight.

Paul Atkins 42:52

Okay.

Colleen Raven Strangways 42:52

That makes sense.

Paul Atkins 42:53

It does. It does. Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 42:55

It does. It does. But the other thing

Paul Atkins 42:57

too. You've got to get over that though because it's not for your sitters.

Colleen Raven Strangways 43:01

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 43:02

Because you're doing good work, right? But I'm

Colleen Raven Strangways 43:04

also very, very protective of my sitters, my models.

Paul Atkins 43:08

Well, this is the other thing behind that I was going to ask

Colleen Raven Strangways 43:10

you. Yeah.

Paul Atkins 43:11

What happens there? Because you'd see stuff that you really want to capture to satisfy you and your people and your friends and all that kind of stuff. But then like– People want to see it and you want to share it, but how does that work?

Colleen Raven Strangways 43:24

I know. I'm always at odds with myself.

Paul Atkins 43:26

Always you speak to the people and the elders involved in that kind of stuff and they go, go for it, girl.

Colleen Raven Strangways 43:32

Absolutely they do. But, you know, then I'm at odds with myself because I go, I want to put this out in the public space to showcase it because I'm really proud of it. But then I don't want the spotlight on me and also– How do I feel about if someone were to buy that portrait and take this person who I know and love home with them to showcase on the wall?

Paul Atkins 43:59

Who knows what their culture is,

Colleen Raven Strangways 44:01

what

Paul Atkins 44:01

their ideas are.

Colleen Raven Strangways 44:02

It's sort of like, I don't know, it's weird. It's me and my stupid head, you know, like I have to get over it. And so many people have said, but it's like, you know, someone taking your child and put it on the wall. I know. Strangest place.

Paul Atkins 44:17

No, I think about that. I mean, it's funny, when you go back, you look at every famous European painting sitting in the art gallery, they're all a private capture of someone.

Colleen Raven Strangways 44:27

Yeah, yeah.

Paul Atkins 44:28

You know, like that was like the Singer-Sergeant, famous Singer-Sergeant painting of a girl with a, they had to paint the strap back on because it was a bit, you know, there was a woman whose father paid to have a daughter painted in a beautiful, gorgeous way. And it's a private thing that suddenly now we all.

Colleen Raven Strangways 44:44

Is on that world stage, yeah.

Paul Atkins 44:46

It's, yeah, it is an issue. And you maybe have to get over it perhaps one thing, but maybe you've got to think about it as a collaboration because if the model is going, hell yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 44:56

Exactly, exactly. What

Paul Atkins 44:57

does it matter?

Colleen Raven Strangways 44:58

I know, right? I don't know. It's just, and also you get, I don't know, we're very sensitive, aren't we, as artists?

Paul Atkins 45:08

Absolutely. We don't

Colleen Raven Strangways 45:09

like critique of our work.

Paul Atkins 45:11

If you don't show it, no one's.

Colleen Raven Strangways 45:12

But you want critique, constructive, you know. You trust. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Paul Atkins 45:18

Yeah. And look, in the end, it is so nice when Adelaide City Council taps you on the shoulder, says, not a quick. Can you put some work up in

Colleen Raven Strangways 45:28

there? Yeah, they commissioned me to do the family portraits. Isn't

Paul Atkins 45:31

that like a tap on the shoulder?

Colleen Raven Strangways 45:34

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 45:35

We want that, don't we? So tell me about how did that happen?

Colleen Raven Strangways 45:39

Because

Paul Atkins 45:39

I saw J-Lo there, our lady mayor.

Colleen Raven Strangways 45:41

Yeah, yeah, I love her. I love her too. And she's

Paul Atkins 45:44

good on TikTok.

Colleen Raven Strangways 45:45

Yeah, I

Paul Atkins 45:46

know. Almost as good as you.

Colleen Raven Strangways 45:47

Oh, she's amazing. She's like, I just love how, you know, she's this age, but she's such a TikTok star, right?

Paul Atkins 45:56

I know. I wish I had her energy.

Colleen Raven Strangways 45:59

And she's so positive, you know. But, yeah, it tapped me on the shoulder and they said, oh, because normally what happens, they normally have, you know, artwork in the mall.

Paul Atkins 46:08

Yes.

Colleen Raven Strangways 46:09

And then they have stalls and just celebration. But they said, no, we're going to do it different this year. We want to do photographs and, you know, we know how beautifully you do it. So we want to, you know, showcase your work. So we then had a bit of a yarn about it and we said, well, we showcase people from different areas. So we've got your coastal mob, your desert mob and then your river mob, you know, and that sort of covers everything. All areas. So we did the big call out and, yeah, we got the families involved and, yeah, we took photos. And they told their stories as well. And told their stories. That's beautiful. Yeah, you know. Yeah,

Paul Atkins 46:52

it's really strong.

Colleen Raven Strangways 46:54

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 46:54

And the way that the photography just– it's arresting. You know, you're walking along and you go, what's this all about? Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 47:00

And

Paul Atkins 47:01

you stop and you look and they're

Colleen Raven Strangways 47:02

– And you've got this smiling face. So you've got the cool woman with the water, you know, and there was– But I didn't get to choose the final photos. Oh, really? No, I didn't. I said, we took over 100 photos of, you know, each family. I said, there you go, that's your job now.

Paul Atkins 47:19

Right.

Colleen Raven Strangways 47:20

Because I...

Paul Atkins 47:20

You didn't want that job.

Colleen Raven Strangways 47:22

Well, I mean, I just knew that no matter what photo they picked, it was going to be amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we took so many great photos of the day. So

Paul Atkins 47:32

who chose?

Colleen Raven Strangways 47:33

So Adelaide City Council. They're

Paul Atkins 47:35

a little group together to help.

Colleen Raven Strangways 47:36

Yeah, yeah. So they had a little Aboriginal committee there that sort of went through and said, yeah, this would be appropriate.

Paul Atkins 47:42

You know what? Sometimes it's easier because you're your own worst critic and you see things that other people don't see. And sometimes you go back and look at the work again a week later or a month later or something and you go, oh, my God, I didn't see that.

Colleen Raven Strangways 47:54

Right? Because I remember doing like something in my early days and I said, I don't really like it. There's something about it that. I haven't quite finished with or there's something. But everyone goes, no, we love it. We love it. We want you to put that up. And I said, why? They said, oh, because there's something about it that just resonates with us. And I'm like, how? I mean, it wasn't my favourite, but everyone else seemed.

Paul Atkins 48:19

Did it become your favourite after that? No, it still doesn't. Okay. I'm just wondering, sometimes, I mean, I'm a bit, I like, I like feedback and I like other people's ideas and I doubt myself a bit. And so having other people tell me it's okay kind of makes it better in my head.

Colleen Raven Strangways 48:33

But isn't it funny that how what you see and then what others see is sometimes can be different. Totally. But beautiful as well. And also what they pull out of that photo because each photo that I try to do, I try to make it emotive as possible. Yeah. And bring about a feeling because, you know, too often, and this is what I like, if I mentor anyone, I said, Always try to bring out the emotion in your photos. Always. Do

Paul Atkins 49:02

you do a lot of mentoring?

Colleen Raven Strangways 49:04

Not too much. I want to because I'm getting too old to be running around.

Paul Atkins 49:08

It's actually really hard. A photographer, it's like the gear you've got to carry. And now, look, you're using speedlights, so your kit's not overly heavy and mirrorless.

Colleen Raven Strangways 49:16

Not so much speedlights anymore. So I've gone up to the Jimbays.

Paul Atkins 49:20

Yeah, right. They looked a bit powerful. Yeah. So battery kit strobes.

Colleen Raven Strangways 49:26

Yeah, absolutely. They're amazing. I've been with Jimbay for years now and gone through the different sort of systems and, yeah, So now I've got the, what is it, the 200 HDs, which is so light and portable.

Paul Atkins 49:41

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 49:41

And no wires. I can just rig them up.

Paul Atkins 49:44

It's everything, doesn't it? I'm still using, because for my tintype stuff, I've been using an old gifted pro photo kit, and the cables are like two centimetres thick, and they're like everywhere. And that's kind of light compared to the old ones, you know, where you had lots of little cables. These are just one big thick cable, but…

Colleen Raven Strangways 50:03

It's so much better without the cables now and you've just got this portable battery that sits on the back and darn easy and you can just chuck them up anywhere. And do

Paul Atkins 50:12

they work and does the camera manage the ratios for you? Like when you say that I want this one on two thirds down and want this one one third up.

Colleen Raven Strangways 50:21

It's all manual for me.

Paul Atkins 50:23

Right. So you're walking around and winding them up down.

Colleen Raven Strangways 50:25

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 50:25

Doing a test shot going.

Colleen Raven Strangways 50:26

Yeah. So I got my trigger and I've got them on A and B.

Paul Atkins 50:29

Yep.

Colleen Raven Strangways 50:29

And then I'll go, right, I want my main light to be at, you know, maybe this power and then my. Yeah, at another power. Does

Paul Atkins 50:38

it always two or sometimes three or?

Colleen Raven Strangways 50:40

Yeah. But I try to use the sun. Yeah. As a rim light as much as possible as well.

Paul Atkins 50:47

Yeah. I think that anchors the photography. Yeah. And that's what I've noticed about your stuff. It's always about people in places.

Colleen Raven Strangways 50:57

Yes.

Paul Atkins 50:58

You know, and I think– well, I think it's really nice. A mate of mine, Randy Larkin, he shot that thing behind me, the– 440 volts alive. Oh, God. It just looks like that. That's under Adelaide. That's off the mall in a substation underground. Really? The phone on the right there. It's like a 1980s. It is. Yeah. So anyway, his motto was people and pictures in places. Yeah. And he was doing stuff for National Geographic and Australian Geographic and he photographed Edmund Hillary and he did the fish traps in the Coorong as well and all this sort of stuff for Ausgeo. And his thing is always about technology. You've got to anchor it to who they are and what they're doing. Yeah. You've got to make it. And I suppose for you, culturally for you, that's what you're trying to do.

Colleen Raven Strangways 51:41

Yeah, you tell the story because, you know, and because anyone that engages me, I say, well, what are you? Are you ocean mob, river mob or desert mob?

Paul Atkins 51:52

Yep.

Colleen Raven Strangways 51:52

And then because I know Adelaide because then I'll go, well, These are the places around Adelaide that can best represent you, you know, the location, you know. And like I said, the Okapuranga River, it's river, it's women's area. So, you know, that could be best serving for you. But we could go to Mariolta if you're from the Flinders Ranges. There's got a very Flinders Ranges feel to them. Yeah. No

Paul Atkins 52:20

yellow-footed rock wallabies.

Colleen Raven Strangways 52:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul Atkins 52:23

It still has that feel.

Colleen Raven Strangways 52:24

It's got that nice, beautiful red, yellow, and orange tones, and it's got those beautiful cliffs. So, you know, we try to then design it around them. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Paul Atkins 52:37

Right, okay. And where are you most comfortable? Like any of those?

Colleen Raven Strangways 52:41

Yeah, absolutely outside.

Paul Atkins 52:43

Yeah, you worked it out.

Colleen Raven Strangways 52:44

Yeah. And, you know, I don't know about you, but– When you see photographs and there's this brick wall behind them, you go, why?

Paul Atkins 52:54

I know. I know. You're

Colleen Raven Strangways 52:56

beautiful. I

Paul Atkins 52:57

know, but some people, like, that's them. You know, like, that's where they are.

Colleen Raven Strangways 53:01

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 53:02

You've got to find people where they're at.

Colleen Raven Strangways 53:03

Yeah, but I had a friend of mine that had a wedding and she goes, oh, yeah, this is what the– they weren't too happy with the photos. And I said, well, I could clearly see why because you had your wedding and there's this great big brick wall there.

Paul Atkins 53:17

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 53:17

And it's the same shade as your wedding dress.

Paul Atkins 53:21

And, of course, it probably bounces the colour into the dress. Yes. And white dress shows off every colour. We've always had trouble with that. You know, people with a red brick wall, why is my shadows red?

Colleen Raven Strangways 53:30

Yeah,

Paul Atkins 53:32

exactly. Put a bit more fill flash or something on

Colleen Raven Strangways 53:34

there. Exactly, exactly. But, you know, and I think that's why– Especially if I do any mentoring, I'd say, like, you can make any location, right? Just pick a really good location and make it better. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's not brick walls.

Paul Atkins 53:53

Yeah. And light is what brings, you know.

Colleen Raven Strangways 53:56

Oh, it just brings it to life. I mean, I do like, you know, the golden hour portraits.

Paul Atkins 54:01

Do you mostly shoot light of ID or?

Colleen Raven Strangways 54:03

Any time, especially with the stripes. And because, you know. You'd

Paul Atkins 54:07

prefer to shoot that time.

Colleen Raven Strangways 54:10

Well, no, any time's good for me. But if you're doing natural portraits, then of course, you know, blue hour or golden is, you know, best.

Paul Atkins 54:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 54:20

Unless you're doing like a real moody, low light kind of shot, you know.

Paul Atkins 54:27

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's cool. So what's next? What are you doing like– you must have some things, Irons in the Fire.

Colleen Raven Strangways 54:34

Oh, Secret. Secret.

Paul Atkins 54:35

No. Give us a hint.

Colleen Raven Strangways 54:38

Well, I did a whole series of underwater photography. Yeah, I'll have to show that to you later. And that was so much fun. I want to do more of that. And that was pretty special. But now with this algae bloom. I

Paul Atkins 54:54

was going to ask you.

Colleen Raven Strangways 54:55

But you can't really. Have

Paul Atkins 54:59

you done anything, any commentary on that with your photography? Because I've seen Trent and Narelle, Trent Park and Narelle Oteo have done some beautiful series. I mean, like tragic.

Colleen Raven Strangways 55:10

Yeah, but it's how they showed it, it really stands out about how tragic it is and some beautiful photos they've done. But no, it's a bit, yeah, I'm on this site called Crabb. E or something. I can't remember what it's called, but it's a local diver group and they've shown underneath the jetties before and afters and it's crazy.

Paul Atkins 55:36

So you're scuba trained?

Colleen Raven Strangways 55:37

No.

Paul Atkins 55:38

So how do you do

Colleen Raven Strangways 55:39

it?

Paul Atkins 55:39

Hold your breath. Sorry, that's a dumb question.

Colleen Raven Strangways 55:44

It's not dumb, pretty much. So I'll show you a bit later this whole series we did. Marino Rocks. You're right. Marino Rocks. That's

Paul Atkins 55:53

beautiful down there.

Colleen Raven Strangways 55:54

Yeah, I love it. And Second Valley. Oh, my God. And so Marino Rocks, they've got this down in that main car park area and there's this buffer that we found or channel that's got sandy bottom but then you've got one layer of rocks that kind of stops the waves from really coming in. It's

Paul Atkins 56:17

a pool. It's

Colleen Raven Strangways 56:19

almost like a pool, but it comes up to just past your waist.

Paul Atkins 56:22

It's a very skinny thing you can go up.

Colleen Raven Strangways 56:24

Yeah, so on high tide, all that fills up, and it's really nice. So that's where I've been doing a lot. So I hired– a little housing, you know. That's

Paul Atkins 56:35

exciting, isn't it? Yeah. Sticking your brand new camera in my hand. I know,

Colleen Raven Strangways 56:40

it's always scary. But it was, it wasn't the best housing because you couldn't really, I was like, hitting the you know the button but hoping for the best because i couldn't see shit sometimes i

Paul Atkins 56:55

mean it's not like we don't live in pristine clear waters no there's a lot of

Colleen Raven Strangways 57:01

seaweed but and i'll show you i'll show it to you but but then we had the nan lights and that we put underwater to sort of expose them as well so we had the special housing for them so um And the photos turned out really, really good. I was really happy. That's exciting. Yeah, but like I said, sometimes it was a hit and miss because they had to push me down underwater. And I had my little big face mask on with the snorkel, but they had to push me from going back up. That's probably a

Paul Atkins 57:37

good thing that you played it.

Colleen Raven Strangways 57:38

So I could concentrate and click the button before I pop them back up like a cork. Jesus.

Paul Atkins 57:46

I mean, have you thought about getting your scuba license?

Colleen Raven Strangways 57:48

No.

Paul Atkins 57:49

Because there's a few, like there's some good dive photographers around who will teach you. Diana Ferny's a tiny little– English lady who's around, and she does a bit of dive teaching. I've always wanted to, but, you know. And now, look, now it's just like I'm just avoiding the place a bit because I feel horrible for what's going on.

Colleen Raven Strangways 58:07

Or what's going on, but absolutely shit scared of sharks as well.

Paul Atkins 58:10

Are you?

Colleen Raven Strangways 58:11

Oh, my God, yes. And we have

Paul Atkins 58:15

them. We have them here.

Colleen Raven Strangways 58:16

I know we do. We have them. So one of the ideas that I have is down by Nalunga Reef. Yep. And, you know, you've got the beautiful underwater, all the jetty pilots.

Paul Atkins 58:30

Stunning, isn't

Colleen Raven Strangways 58:31

it? And you've got this beautiful, like.

Paul Atkins 58:34

Like a three-story building.

Colleen Raven Strangways 58:36

But then you've just got this amazing light that comes in to the water, bends, and you've got this, you know, like you've got the reef there and then you've got the pylons and you've got these fish milling around. And if you can imagine then having like someone with a spear painted up, you know, in that, you know, or a woman with a dilly bag with her hair all everywhere and she's in a pose underneath the jetty, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, there you go. That's my secret. Copyrighted.

Paul Atkins 59:10

Well, do we need to beefle that out?

Colleen Raven Strangways 59:13

But that's something that I really want to do.

Paul Atkins 59:15

Yeah, that would be amazing. Yeah. Well, I was looking at Narelle's series that she had up at the Hugo Michel Gallery where she had people diving off into the jetty. Now, when I looked at that stuff, I felt, because I love swimming and I'm fine underwater and that kind of stuff, but I felt, I felt like I was drowning a bit. It was like very claustrophobic. And I think she did a beautiful job. I don't know if everyone had that same feeling, if that was her intention. I never got to the bottom of it. But I had this feeling like I was watching something that wasn't great. Yeah. And it was a beautiful, it was a beautiful feeling. But I've seen a lot of underwater stuff that's completely the opposite to that. Yeah. That's very open and freeing and… You know, and the hair going everywhere is incredible.

Colleen Raven Strangways 59:54

Yeah, yeah.

Paul Atkins 59:56

All right, well, thanks for telling me that. I'll write that down. Copywriter, copywriter. I'm not going to be doing that. Maybe

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:00:01

you can join me.

Paul Atkins 1:00:02

Yeah, are you working in and around the bloom? Like what's the– No, no. I'm just going to wait until it's

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:00:07

clear. Yeah, I'm just heartbroken because it's just spreading and, you know, like it's affecting– like I thought it was just our fish that it was affecting or, you know, things with gills, but now it seems to be affecting our mammals as well. And, of course, the surfers that are going in doing the surfing are feeling really, you know, unwell too.

Paul Atkins 1:00:30

Look, I don't– I mean, I don't think– things don't always just get better, but I think the government's thinking about it and– We've got some pretty impressive scientists and a lot of care and a lot of interest and now they're focusing. And, of course, what's the thing that's going to push it all is we're coming up to summer where people want to go to the beach. So the pressure is on.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:00:49

Yeah,

Paul Atkins 1:00:50

the pressure is on. And Peter, our Premier, and Anthony, our Prime Minister, you know, and the Environment Minister, hopefully– Hopefully they pull their finger out and they can come up and say, well, what do you do? Like, it's global warming.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:01:02

Yeah, it is. How do we

Paul Atkins 1:01:03

put ice blocks in the bloody golf? What do you do?

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:01:06

Well, we thought with that big storm we had and the rough

Paul Atkins 1:01:08

seas we had. Yeah, it's going to

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:01:09

flush it. Flushed it, but it didn't.

Paul Atkins 1:01:11

It just made it spread. Because it was warm still, yeah. But you know what? This is like our golf has always been a, a breeding, like where fish go to have their babies. Yeah. And it's always been a delicate little environment and it's shallow and it's warm and they've just lifted it by, global warming's lifted it by a little bit.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:01:28

Oh, 100%.

Paul Atkins 1:01:30

It's just awful.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:01:31

Because we, and I was saying that to someone too, like we used to be able to predict the weather roughly.

Paul Atkins 1:01:38

This is the weird winter. It's the coldest winter for a while.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:01:40

It's colder than last winter. I thought last winter was cold, but this winter. Last

Paul Atkins 1:01:44

winter was balmy compared to

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:01:45

this. Yeah. This winter is like through the bone.

Paul Atkins 1:01:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can feel it now in my hands and

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:01:51

wrists. But it is really, really cold. And, you know, you can feel the climate change, you know, not just see it. And, you know, I can't believe that there's still people in the world that think it's not a real thing.

Paul Atkins 1:02:07

They're drongos.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:02:08

They're drongos, all right.

Paul Atkins 1:02:09

And, you know, the Woodside project that was approved when– I mean, I was really glad about the election. I thought it was a beautiful rejection of a lot of things. But then to immediately sign that deal is just sad and tragic. And I don't know, you know, like whatever, like it's– That's not what we're talking about in the podcast, but I would really like a little bit more thought put

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:02:30

into it. Those photographers were environmentalists as well, I believe.

Paul Atkins 1:02:34

We are the witnesses.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:02:35

Yeah, we are the witnesses.

Paul Atkins 1:02:36

And the people that went into Auschwitz, they were the witnesses there, you know. And Lee Miller, they brought it all back for us.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:02:42

What's happening with Trump overseas with the detention centres there? Like there's photographs, you know, people who are photographing those areas and– And the humane situation that's going on with the marches and the protests, all that is going to be taught in schools in 20 years or more time about what's happening in this era ever in America. So, you know, as photographers, we are really important in documenting what's happening in the world at that present time.

Paul Atkins 1:03:12

That's right. And I think anyone who thinks that it's time to put the camera down, I don't think, you know, I think it's time to pick the camera up and keep those stories being told. How do you find the discussion of, I don't want this to be about AI and that sort of stuff, but I'm talking about, you know, conjured images. Now, the very beginning of, photography, you know, Roger Fenton went to the Crimean War, which is, you know, Ukraine and all that sort of stuff, in 1850, 60, whatever it was, and he moved cannonballs to make the pictures look a bit more dramatic, right? So we've been screwing with pictures from the beginning of time. Are you comfortable with what can be done in Photoshop and that sort of to tell the truth with pictures or not? Or how do you sit with

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:03:53

all that? Well, I don't know how to feel about it. Like one part of me goes– Well, this is, you know, another way forward, you know, is how we grow. But another part goes, well, it's taking the fun out of it as well because, you know, retouching skin used to be a bloody big skill. Dodging

Paul Atkins 1:04:20

paws with a dodging tool, you know.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:04:22

You know, but separating the layers to do that as well. And now it's done with a click of a button.

Paul Atkins 1:04:29

I know.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:04:30

You know, so. But,

Paul Atkins 1:04:31

you know, you can do other things now.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:04:34

You can, yeah. So that's why it's sort of. I mean, was

Paul Atkins 1:04:36

that fun, dodging paws?

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:04:38

It was because you felt rewarded at the end of your hard work. And then you did that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it wasn't something that was.

Paul Atkins 1:04:47

Not some robot.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:04:48

Yeah, but it's not something that, you know, there was a skill that was learnt that you can put in your little tool bag and go, this is what I can do, opposed to someone else, you know, that could.

Paul Atkins 1:05:01

Yeah, some programmer in another country, you know, like in another culture has just generated this program. It's like you pick up your Z series Nikon. Someone in the Northern Hemisphere has designed it to work in a certain way and we're trying to make it work down here for ourselves and what we want and.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:05:16

Yeah. Well, you look at mobile phones now with the cameras.

Paul Atkins 1:05:20

I know. They're awesome.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:05:22

You know, like compared to, you know, like I remember back in the day when it was only two megapixels.

Paul Atkins 1:05:29

I know. We still loved that and we had fun. And I reckon, you know, the great photographers of the past, Ansel Adams or whatever, they would have– Grabbed the mobile phone and used it. They would have used the latest digital. Like we all get a bit hung up on, oh, it was better then. Yeah, yeah. I think it's amazing now.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:05:45

Oh, no, I think AI is everywhere now in everything.

Paul Atkins 1:05:49

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:05:49

You know.

Paul Atkins 1:05:50

It'll be in the camera bodies soon enough and you won't be able to avoid it being. It

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:05:53

is in camera bodies. Sony's.

Paul Atkins 1:05:56

Yeah, right.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:05:56

In the Sony's they have AI where you can track any kind of animal. It's the AI that tracks it. Yeah, so it'll track a dog's eye, a poster human eye or,

Paul Atkins 1:06:12

you

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:06:12

know, bird in flight. And, you know, the, what else does it do? The light ability, you know, that in, you know, with the AI,

Paul Atkins 1:06:23

but the stabilisation,

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:06:25

you know, and all that sort of stuff as well, you know. So, yeah.

Paul Atkins 1:06:29

Well, that's another tool that we just got to understand and, Put in our kit. Yeah. Do you know what won't– well, I feel it won't be replaced is your ability to have relationships with your subject. And, you know, we've already talked about the understanding of culture and, like, how can you consult the elders with AI? Like, you have to go and talk to these people, you know. You have to find out what's appropriate in this place.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:06:52

Absolutely. But having, like you said, that relationship, then you are best able to tell that story. Yeah. You know what I mean? Through that knowledge. So AI wouldn't be able to, you know, I mean, you look at AI now with its ability at the moment, it's a very flat, emotionless image. You know, it's dead in the eyes. You can really tell it's dead in the eyes. But as photographers, you know, you can take a nice portrait or landscape and it comes alive. You can tell the story.

Paul Atkins 1:07:23

Yeah, yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:07:23

You know, through a 2D image, you can tell a story and make it into a 4D image.

Paul Atkins 1:07:28

Yeah. You know, through that visualisation. Motion that the viewer can put into it and, yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:07:35

Yeah. 100%. So, you know, AI is here to stay. We've just got to know how to work with it. Yeah. You know, and probably, you know, I suppose try to stand out from the rest, you know, that, you know, coming in. Like, as professional photographers, you want to be able to keep your– Authenticity. Oh, I can't even talk. Your authentic self, you know, a post that a mum and dad's picking up and just pressing a button and then the next minute they got this beautiful photo.

Paul Atkins 1:08:05

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:08:06

You want to set yourself apart for what you've learnt and your skill sets and, you know, years of your own learning.

Paul Atkins 1:08:15

Yeah. And your connection to the subject.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:08:17

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 1:08:17

And this is where I think a lot of photographers, like that business model, the pixie set, we'll go right back to the beginning.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:08:22

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 1:08:23

There was no relationship with you, the sitter, right?

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:08:25

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 1:08:26

But if a person wanted Colleen to photograph them, you'd sit down and have a chat with them first. Yeah. And you'd know their story. I mean, you just told me you spent eight hours finding this person's story out as you made their, if you helped them with their photograph of their body

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:08:41

painting. And while we painted on them, we yarned about who they were, their story, being a new mum or excited new mum to be and, you know, all that. So

Paul Atkins 1:08:50

they see, they feel seen. They

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:08:53

feel seen.

Paul Atkins 1:08:53

So they can expose them, they can expose themselves to you. That sounds wrong. They can, you can see the true self when it comes

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:08:59

Yeah, and the thing is too, like you build that relationship and that rapport with them so they feel like they're part of the process. You know what I mean? They're not just a subject to photographs. They feel part of the main

Paul Atkins 1:09:15

image. Collaboration.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:09:16

And another thing too is I did a whole portrait of our elders. We had our theme for NAIDOC one year of Because of Her We Can.

Paul Atkins 1:09:27

Because of her, we can.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:09:29

Yeah, and, you know, you look at our mothers, our sisters, our female representation around us.

Paul Atkins 1:09:35

Of course.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:09:36

And you go, every person has taught us something, especially our mothers, our grandmothers and so forth, our matriarchs. They've always handed down traditions, you know, always, you know, because of her, we can. We can do this because we stand on their shoulders.

Paul Atkins 1:09:53

Absolutely.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:09:54

And so... For our elders, we did Because of Her We Can, and they still use it as their profile pictures today, which I love.

Paul Atkins 1:10:05

That's

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:10:05

so beautiful. And so that was really powerful because I was able to shoot them in a way that they thought of themselves.

Paul Atkins 1:10:18

Okay.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:10:18

You know what I mean? Yeah. The strong matriarchs that they were and how they wanted to present to the world. not this, you know, I suppose elder that sits in a woolen jumper and slippers on and all that sort of stuff or doing welcomes or, you know, like, so it's some, and I'll show you the photos, but someone that represents them, you know, and what they stand for and their elegance.

Paul Atkins 1:10:45

Yeah, yeah. And if there's something that's sort of really rising around the world at the moment is this people letting people be who they want to be.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:10:52

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 1:10:52

You know, and whatever that little, thing might be and celebrating that as its own thing yeah um it's you know because it's life's easy when you you know pigeonhole things our brains want to go oh that's that kind of person put them in that box yeah and like it just is a shortcut to being a human that you do those sorts of things but you know i haven't we haven't talked before and we sat down and i think i know you now pretty well to an extent with any as much you can in the morning um but you know, suddenly the pigeonhole changes, doesn't it? And you go, oh, that's not a, and that's, I think your photography of anything, it's sort of, it's you trying to stop that pigeonholing of whatever, whoever it might be by letting those people tell them. So, and that's the big thing. And unfortunately, this is the downside from it. It's a tough run of business that way, isn't it? Because you can't photograph, five people a day like Pixie said needs to, can you? You took eight hours on one person.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:11:46

And

Paul Atkins 1:11:47

you couldn't do that five days a week. You'd be stuffed.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:11:51

Yeah, and I always take it on as a community collaborative approach as well. So that image of, and I think you've seen it, with her whole body being painted, there was a whole team. We had a whole lot of community in my one little kitchen. We had about... I think eight people. Did you have enough chicken? We had to get more and drink and cups of teas. But it was just beautiful because we all sat down with just yarning, laughing and enjoying life. And, you know, no one was asking, like, you know, what do I get out of this? It was just being, you know, and just sitting down yarning and just enjoying each other's company while drinking doing this you know and and everyone had the same passion you know like it's going to be amazing it's going to be beautiful and and just having fun you know so

Paul Atkins 1:12:44

it's

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:12:45

a real like for me it's always about bringing in community yeah and sharing it with community it's not just about me it's about the the people that i take photos of and the community it represents

Paul Atkins 1:12:59

that's awesome That's so cool. I think everyone needs to think a bit more that way.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:13:04

There ought

Paul Atkins 1:13:05

to be a better place. Imagine if Donald Trump thought about it. Oh my God. We shouldn't have mentioned the name, but imagine, just imagine if he thought what his wife might be thinking or, you know, or what some poor person who's made it to America, who's working in the fields or whatever they're doing. They just happen to be undocumented. Imagine if he thought.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:13:25

Well, you look at him. Well,

Paul Atkins 1:13:27

he's an immigrant.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:13:28

He's an immigrant. His wife's an immigrant. All his wives have been immigrants, and yet they all had a beautiful life in America. Why can't they give that same

Paul Atkins 1:13:37

beauty? It's not that they haven't got the money. The whole thing's been such a waste of energy. There's no reason for any of this stuff that's happened. Yeah. Nothing was on the precipice of collapse and death and no one's life was– it's difficult but

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:13:51

– I don't think anyone knows what runs through his head.

Paul Atkins 1:13:56

Nothing.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:13:57

I think it's so embarrassing for America to have a president like that that puts all his news out on social media. Yeah. Right?

Paul Atkins 1:14:06

That's what he said straight out.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:14:07

Yeah. But then he puts people down in such a childish way. You know, it makes us happy to be living in Australia, right?

Paul Atkins 1:14:16

Bless. I like, this is the best country. Like, and that last election where people said, nah. We don't want any of that stuff. Because I think, and I don't think the Liberal Party were like that, but they were leaning and they were trying. The

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:14:30

Trumpism. Yeah, because, oh, my God, that scared the bejesus

Paul Atkins 1:14:33

out of me. It did. Pauline and all that stuff. And we just pushed it down and said, no, thank you.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:14:38

Yeah. And hopefully that sent a message. But really, I don't think it's getting through to them that we don't want Trump-style politics here because the You know, it's just so.

Paul Atkins 1:14:50

Hey, it's not going anywhere. I think it's a dead starter. You know, I think it'll be dead and gone before there's a

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:14:56

chance. I hope so because. I mean, there'll be other things that are challenging. It was wholesome there for a minute.

Paul Atkins 1:15:00

It really was. Oh, and you know what? The thing that upset me the most, which I think gave them the power, was the vote, the yes vote. They got tricked into the no. Yeah. And I think that's what gave them the power to think that they could keep that crap up.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:15:14

Yes.

Paul Atkins 1:15:15

And I don't think Australia. Yeah,

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:15:18

and Australia was– so during the referendum, there was– so the Liberal Party employed– and same with– oh, what's his name? I can't remember his name.

Paul Atkins 1:15:31

They brought an American Trumpist over, didn't

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:15:33

they? Yes, and that did a lot of the propaganda. Yeah. And a lot of stuff that was fed into the Australian landscape was so unfounded and so untrue. Yeah. that I know a lot of my white friends said, like, yeah, of course we voted for, you know, the yes, you know, but then you got some that said, oh, we were so confused. We didn't think Aboriginal people wanted it, so we voted no. So they were so confused. But for all of us Aboriginal mob, there's a few that voted, you know, that didn't vote yes in the Aboriginal community, but... I would say it would be 85% to 90% of Aboriginal people wanted it.

Paul Atkins 1:16:17

You know what's wrong with it? They even had to vote about it. Exactly. I think it's the dumbest thing on earth. We have cultural representation at that level.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:16:25

Well, there was two parts to it, right? One, to have a voice at the table, which only concerns us and it's only– See, that's what I think confused people too because that was only a voice. It wasn't about making change. It was just to feed into the parliament to say, hey, this is what's going on in the Aboriginal community. This is something that is needed or wanted, you know, blah, blah, blah. Let's, you know, put on the table to talk about it, discuss it. It wasn't about changing policy or making change or whatever. Taking land. It's about the voice. It's about the voice. It's called the voice. It was just a voice. That's all it was. It's called the voice. Yeah, I know, but people were thinking, oh, that's,

Paul Atkins 1:17:10

you know, all this other crap. Because Rupert started them and scared them and, yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:17:14

And then the other part was changing the constitution to make it, because there's a really racist part of that. And I can't remember which part it was, but what it means is that, There are certain laws and things that the parliament can do or the government can do that is a special policy only for Aboriginal people. Well, they've used that policy to water down the Discrimination Act for Aboriginal people, but also they've brought in intervention over a lie in the Northern Territory using that policy.

Paul Atkins 1:17:49

Yep.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:17:50

So we wanted it to change so we can be like everybody else and be protected by the same laws as everybody else. Yeah. So we thought, well, that's a no-brainer, right?

Paul Atkins 1:18:00

Yeah. Well, I thought it was a no-brainer. Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:18:03

But the propaganda that was out there.

Paul Atkins 1:18:06

And that whole if you don't know, vote no.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:18:08

Yeah, yeah. So we turned that around with the Liberals this year with the vote, said if you don't know, vote no to the Liberals.

Paul Atkins 1:18:17

It worked, didn't

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:18:18

it? Because they had no policies. They had nothing to go on.

Paul Atkins 1:18:21

And the other thing which I found, the thing that I found quite interesting because I've always thought I've been– You know the idea of having quotas, right?

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:18:32

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 1:18:33

We must have 50% women, 50% men, or we must have 10% Indigenous representatives, you know, whatever it is. And I've always been like, oh, is that a thing or not? But it's clearly, it's so important because the Labor Party is made at work.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:18:44

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 1:18:44

Like, and now we have, you know, Labor women representing in a proper way level and guiding the party and what did Australia do they voted for that they didn't vote for the blokes and those poor women that they stick up front and the Liberal Party to try and take the blows because it gets difficult and they put the women up front and I don't think much of them and I don't think much of their policies but they don't they look like drongos right up front

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:19:08

look what they did to Jacinta Price

Paul Atkins 1:19:11

you

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:19:11

know like sorry but like she deserves it because she was a she she does not represent the Aboriginal community she actually goes against it and um Unfortunately, she's a niece of mine. Oh, really? Because she's connected to you and me, Alice Springs. But we won't talk about that. Anyway.

Paul Atkins 1:19:28

We all have those kinds of cheeks somewhere in our family.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:19:31

We do. But, you know, she's made a career of going against it because it helps her. It stands

Paul Atkins 1:19:38

out. It's comfy.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:19:39

Well, it helps her further her career because she's able to be divisive and get the– the races vote, so to speak. And people go, see, this Aboriginal lady, she gets it. She talks like us. Yeah, she talks like us. She's like Pauline. But she has the same ideas as Pauline. And so it's sort of the Liberal Party put her up as the puppet, like you said, as the front woman. When all this Aboriginal politics come to play, they bring her out and then put her back in her box when all is done.

Paul Atkins 1:20:16

She must, like– She must be crumbling inside.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:20:20

Oh, well, she did. She remember how she kind of defected from her party to come to the Liberal Party because she was thinking she was going to get voted into the backbench or whatever it was. And then they rejected her. Yeah. So that just tells her that, sorry, your little spot was done. You'd done your job of. Thank you. Simpering down the Aboriginal, you know.

Paul Atkins 1:20:42

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:20:43

Oh, the progress. So now you've got to be put back in your little box now and put away.

Paul Atkins 1:20:49

She must be realising what happened.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:20:51

I don't think she cares.

Paul Atkins 1:20:52

Don't you?

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:20:53

No.

Paul Atkins 1:20:53

That's so sad.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:20:54

It is sad. But, you know,

Paul Atkins 1:20:56

that's... Poor thing. That's just awful.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:20:58

Yeah, she's, like you said, she's the black Pauline Hanson. You know, they run on this, you know, they get the votes from these people that have that same ideas as what they do.

Paul Atkins 1:21:12

It's just... tragic

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:21:14

it is tragic and you know as we as Australians yeah we don't have we shouldn't have places for them because we should be mature enough as a country to go Welcome to countries don't harm us. It's just words and it's about respect. Yeah, it's the most beautiful. It's like we stand for the anthem. It's the same thing. Like every time if I go to Melbourne.

Paul Atkins 1:21:35

And what's the problem with changing things? Exactly. Hey,

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:21:38

I go to Melbourne and there's a big sign saying welcome to Melbourne. I'm not going to get offended. Yeah,

Paul Atkins 1:21:42

that's right.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:21:43

I'll be like, cool,

Paul Atkins 1:21:43

you know. Thanks. You're welcome. That's beautiful.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:21:46

You know what I mean? It's so like

Paul Atkins 1:21:48

what

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:21:49

people argue over because others are stirring the pot in the back end of it. It's ridiculous.

Paul Atkins 1:21:54

Because they've got nothing else to offer. Yeah. And the only thing they've got to offer is making you feel upset about something.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:21:59

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 1:21:59

And that's not what the world needs. The world needs us to lay our cards out on the table and say, what do we need to solve these problems and then work with what we have, not what used to maybe never worked.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:22:09

Absolutely.

Paul Atkins 1:22:10

Worked

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:22:11

for someone. Like I– sorry, keep hearing that. So for Lake Eyre Cutting Thunder, I had to– because I'm on the board, I'll direct this for that– I had to– do a little segment with ABC and talk about why we're not allowing people to go onto the lake. And, oh, my God, the flak back for that. Like, how dare they? What else are they going to take away from us? And just like Uluru, what happened with the no climbing thing. We want you to come. We just don't want you to do harm or damage because we want to keep that for your children as well as my children in the future.

Paul Atkins 1:22:49

Exactly. And when you go to a place like Uluru and you– You can actually feel it. Yeah. I went for the first time 2018, I think, with my daughters, and we camped alongside or out, you know, out in the campground, and you felt the place. There was nothing that said, oh, I've got to climb this thing, about it, about being there. You just knew that this drew people here for a reason. Yeah. This is something truly

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:23:10

special. Yeah, it is special.

Paul Atkins 1:23:11

And I'm not a spiritual person, but I really felt something that was there. My kids did too. They were, like, mesmerised by the whole thing. Yeah. That's what you're trying to hand to people.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:23:20

Yeah, exactly that feeling. But also we want you to be protectors just as much as we are. When

Paul Atkins 1:23:27

you feel like you own it, you look after it.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:23:29

Yeah, you look after it. And, you know, when the lake is dry and it's not full at the moment, it's coming in still, but when you step out on the Salt Lake, your footsteps stay there until the next flood. And normally– that next cycle of flood is every 20 years. So if you step out on that lake, your footsteps are going to stay there for 20 years and won't go until the next flood. But what that means is those crustaceans, those little frogs or fishes that live underneath,

Paul Atkins 1:24:01

they

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:24:03

get damaged by you impacting on that. But that's the environmental impact, but then you've got our cultural and spiritual impact. Yeah. So, you know, we get a lot of our lore from the lake. And a lot of our teachings and our ancestors are from the lake. So that's another aspect. But the main thing is…

Paul Atkins 1:24:24

The lake is life up there, really, isn't

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:24:25

it? Oh, it is. It brings life, you know. And so Kati Thanda means bringing seed, which means bringing life.

Paul Atkins 1:24:34

Wow.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:24:34

Yeah. So same with Uluru. A lot of people don't realise that… That's a big-ass climb up there, right?

Paul Atkins 1:24:40

Yeah, right.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:24:40

Right? And it's dangerous. And people have died.

Paul Atkins 1:24:43

Yeah,

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:24:44

yeah. And, you know, when people go out into those places, we're responsible as Aboriginal people. We feel it. And so when there's a death or there's an accident, we're responsible. We feel responsible. But also on Uluru, just as an interesting note, that there's no toilets up there. So what do people do?

Paul Atkins 1:25:04

They don't, do they?

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:25:05

They do. So what happens when it rains is all that crap…

Paul Atkins 1:25:10

Literally.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:25:10

…comes in that waterfall, comes off and fills up in the pools, which then harms the… Yeah,

Paul Atkins 1:25:18

and there's a drink from

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:25:19

them. Yeah, and they get sick. Yeah. Yeah. Far out. So a lot of people don't realise that either, so, yeah. That's

Paul Atkins 1:25:26

lovely. That's lovely to hear. Yeah. Because, yeah, you don't hear a lot with the news, do you?

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:25:32

No, you

Paul Atkins 1:25:32

don't. Snippets, these two-minute headlines, and they don't mean anything.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:25:37

Yeah, and, you know, like when people, I think, hear about, you know, the many reasons around why, you know, things are happening, like, you know, like we got dual name for Cuddy Thunder Lake Eyre. And they go, oh, you know, you read. And one of our biggest thing is don't read the comments. We say to those blackfellas, don't read the comments because it just dives your head in.

Paul Atkins 1:26:01

Oh, it's upsetting.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:26:01

And it's upsetting. It really is. And you go, well, this is, you know, this is the land that I come from.

Paul Atkins 1:26:08

And you know that every one of those people, 99% of them, if you put them aside and sat down and said, here's the story, they'd be like, oh.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:26:15

But it's also a small percentage.

Paul Atkins 1:26:17

Well, that's right. Then social media allows the pile on. Yeah, it does. It promotes the pile on. It wants to see that language. Well, it helps

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:26:24

the algorithm or something, doesn't it?

Paul Atkins 1:26:27

It does. It gets everyone– the adverts get shown more often. So I can find out about, you know, what am I interested in? I'm a 55-year-old bloke. It's probably ED or some other advert. They're going to serve me just because I'm in Facebook.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:26:40

Yeah. So just going back to the photos, so the photos really serve to– as a time capsule. Like how many times we look back at old photographs of, you know, what maybe the lake looked like back in like the 1940s. Look at Uluru back in, you know, when they had the car park right there. Yeah, yeah. You know, all the tents all around the, at the front of the, you know, at the foot of the. The

Paul Atkins 1:27:07

chain to go up and

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:27:08

people. Yeah, all that sort of stuff. So, you know, looking back at all those photographs and, you know, bringing all this opportunity and, you know, speculation around it. It's amazing what used to be.

Paul Atkins 1:27:19

Yeah.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:27:20

You know?

Paul Atkins 1:27:21

What was acceptable.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:27:22

Yeah. Even here in Adelaide, there's this thing I'm on on Facebook where it looks at old Adelaide.

Paul Atkins 1:27:30

Oh, yeah, I know

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:27:31

that one. Yeah, before all the buildings and you go, oh, my God, look at Hindley Street. I know.

Paul Atkins 1:27:37

And sometimes when you look out, you can imagine it without the buildings.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:27:40

Yeah.

Paul Atkins 1:27:40

You know, looking up at North Adelaide, you can see the hill rise and the river going at the bottom of the hill. Yeah, exactly. You can almost picture it without all the stuff.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:27:48

Without all that stuff and lots of trees. So I can understand why the parklands, everyone gets upset about anyone doing anything with the parklands. Our parklands are beautiful. Incredible. But then trying to take them away is like, yeah. I can understand that because that's so unique to us.

Paul Atkins 1:28:06

Yeah, exactly.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:28:07

Right? Yeah.

Paul Atkins 1:28:08

No, it's so special. Look, we've been more than an hour. Oh,

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:28:11

we have.

Paul Atkins 1:28:11

We've had a lovely hour. Well, look at that, almost an hour and a half, which is perfect.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:28:16

There we go.

Paul Atkins 1:28:17

Thank you so much for your

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:28:18

time. Oh, thank you, Paul. It's so good to finally meet you because I tell you, your name is everywhere in the photography community here in Adelaide and interstate. So we see you everywhere. You've got such a huge reputation. Thank you. And also hearing your story about how it's generational. That's amazing.

Paul Atkins 1:28:38

We all have great. It's in your blood. Well, we sat down and we talked. Yeah. And I heard your story. You heard my story. And I think it, It sort of changes everything, doesn't it? Yeah. It's lovely. And look, NALA Media is the name of your business?

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:28:51

Yeah, so NALA means people in my language and NALA about a language.

Paul Atkins 1:28:54

Yep.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:28:54

But I just want to just quickly add, though, I don't know if you... It's

Paul Atkins 1:28:57

not more about me, is it? Yeah,

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:28:58

it's all about you.

Paul Atkins 1:28:58

Oh, God.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:29:00

So, you know, I mean, we share that same sort of thing where everything's handed down through our generations. Yes. So we share that. We share, you know, our knowledge, our skills and outlook on life is... passed on through our family members. Yes. And I think me and you both are more familiar than just not familiar. I know

Paul Atkins 1:29:22

what you mean. I know what you mean. We share more DNA than you'd think.

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:29:26

Yeah, exactly.

Paul Atkins 1:29:27

In a

Colleen Raven Strangways 1:29:27

metaphorical way. Exactly.