Atkins Labcast
Hosted by Kate and Paul Atkins, the third generation owners of the oldest photo lab in Australia. A podcast about living with and loving photography. From philosophy to technicalities, for amateurs, artists and professionals, we talk about it all.
Atkins Labcast
Atkins Labcast Episode 61 - Simon Casson
Paul interviews his friend Simon Casson. Once a much sought after wedding photographer who photographed Paul and Kate's wedding, is now predominantly working in aviation and defence photography. Beware, the interviewer and interviewee drank some fine whisky during this podcast.
Simon's website: https://www.casson.com.au/
Simon's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/simoncassonphotographer/
The Roots and Ice Cube playing Straight outa Compton: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPonGIjjJtk/?hl=en
The Stooges: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gsWt7ey6bo
Casson Family in the State Library of SA: https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/resource/PRG+1628
L S Casson's films on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@StateLibrarySouthAustralia/search?query=casson
S Sweet on youtube: https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/contributor/Sweet%2C+Samuel+White%2C
E Gall on State Library of SA: https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/contributor/Gall%2C+Ernest%2C
Memory Lane Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/memorylaneaust/posts/7713350092021247/
Sally Brownbill's the Brownbill effect: https://thebrownbilleffect.com/
Fred North Helicopter pilot on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fred_north/
G'day listeners, welcome to another episode of the Atkins Lab Cast. I'm so pleased to sit down with my guest and longtime friend Simon Casson here on Garner Country at the lab. Simon's photography caught my eye back in the 90s with a curious series of bowler-hatted gentlemen in various locations. It was meticulously executed, as is all of his work. Simon has maintained a full-time living as a professional photographer, managed all the changes that have arisen, and is ready for the next round. I know he struggled seeing himself as a success, but he is the very definition of success, the kind of person whose story we all need to hear. Someone who loves being a photographer and made a career of it and maintains that love. We drank a little whiskey recording this, and hopefully it makes sense to you. We're not going to say anything that would get us into any trouble. No, uh the he says he doesn't know. Cheers. He says he doesn't know. Okay. There we go. This is a very different uh episode. And it's not that I'm wow, that was nice. It is nice. It's not that I'm being slack and just uh interviewing friends because you you know listeners know that I never do anything like that. Um I am very interested in interviewing relevant uh photographers, people who are doing the job every day. I'm not particularly worried about people who are full-timers or part-timers or whatever, but I'm really interested in people that are interested in what they're doing and dedicated to what they're doing. And I first came across Simon's work would have been mid to late nineties. There was a picture of a gentleman with a bowler hat on a haystack, which you can talk about in a bit. Yep. But through all these years, I'm not looking at him because I don't want to embarrass him, through all these years, the consistent, uh fabulous, innovative work that has come out of his equipment, his equipment uh has has um has caught my eye. And the most recent work, which I I'm not an aviation nut by any means, but there's something about the geometric nature of Simon's work that he shoots around airports and aircraft, which is uh just is amazing. It's like I don't know how to describe it, it's like organizing your desk when it's really messy, making it near really neat. It feels so satisfying. And looking at your work is so satisfying. Everything in its right place. Everything in its place. Um, so is this uh a pedantry about you? Because the guy in the bowl hat on the Haybale was perfect. It was so delicate, the lighting was exquisite, it was a series of work that it was just strong and and carefully engineered. Is this something that this pedantry? Is this what happens with your work? Is this the sort of thing you do?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I've there's always going to be like some level of symmetry um and shapes uh coming into play uh in what I do and what I look for. Um it's it's an automatic thing. I don't I don't sort of necessarily think the process, I just frame up what what pleases me. Yeah, particularly with the with the plane stuff. Um I'm not a plane spotter, I'm not a plane nerd, I like I'm not like uh Cold War jets, I like uh specifics and like a MIG. Yeah, like uh niche sort of things. But as far as like the all the current uh jets, there's people that could tell you the technology and the difference between them and all that sort of stuff. It really doesn't interest me that much, but I love what they look and sound like. You like the shapes they make. Yeah, and I like I like being able to, you know, m make incredible looking shapes and designs with them. So are you everywhere you go, everything you look at, are you framing like you're looking at me now, framing the situation as a stand at a pedestrian crossing and waiting for the lights to go green, and I'll look around just over there and I'll go, hang on, and I'll move half a step to the left so the stoby pole moves up with the sign and gets you in the right shape. So I I can't, it just happens all the time. Yeah, yeah, it's a sickness, eh? I'm afflicted with it. Afflicted. As I'm sure we all are.
SPEAKER_01:So where did this develop? Like I think when I met you, I thought your your work was very developed and very mature. Um, like that sounds like what sort of judgment is that? Like as a 24-year-old or whatever, when I first saw your work, whose work was very mature. I just thinking that I've never found the work not to be bang on. Yeah, where did it start and when did it pick up getting to that level? Because obviously you're working for someone else and all that sort of stuff before we met. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I I actually think that that all that stuff you're talking about, like the uh the people on the um the haystack and all those. No, not that I recall, um, but I think that all came about just from the from the gear I was using. So it wasn't like just 35 mil, which is like, yeah, bang, here we go. Um I had and I still have uh Mamiya RB gear. Um and I think it was the slowness, it was the fact that you were um slowed down, it was on on tripod. Um the whole process was very, very slow um and and methodical. So lying it, lining it up, getting it looking right, etc. And I think that that probably is what sent it down that path.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:The fast 35 mil, bang, bang, bang, etc., had its place, et cetera. But when the RB came out, it was you were taking a photograph.
SPEAKER_01:So let's go back further. What who put the first camera in your hands? Because I know your family were interested in photography.
SPEAKER_00:Your father was uh yeah. Well, my grandfather um was a very, very keen uh amateur photographer and shot a lot of 16 mil film and all that sort of stuff. He uh lived up in the Maui at Penaroo um and was a traveling uh Warnsley salesman. So he traveled all around South Australia and hang on, traveling Rawnsley for Warnsley Park. No, no, no. It was an old product. Oh uh and it's I don't think it's around anymore, but it was um probably a testosterone version of Avon, if you like. Um so he'd travel he'd travel all around South Australia photographing everything, filming everything. Well, 16 mil is serious filming, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh I've got his uh bollocks um still hanging around, etc., but I haven't ever used it before. Well, putting 60 mil film in it and the cost of it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um so he always did that, and it was a case of like every time we visited, there was always it was always a camera out that uh that grandpa had out, and he was taking photographs of family or whatever, etc. etc. Um and all that material that he photographed, my dad um got hold of, of course, and had the foresight to actually then speak to State Library. Um, and they were very, very interested in it, and they've got it all. Cool. What's his name? Laurie, Lawrence, Lawrence, LS Cassen. LS Cassen, right? Excellent. So you donated State Library, brilliant. Yeah. Um, so we know what the funny thing here's the technology thing, which is hilarious. So this is back in the day, I don't know how long ago it was now, how technology changes so fast. So all of the motion stuff, um dad got everything that still was back on CDs because they scanned it and then they just gave dad a copy of CDs. Uh but all the motion they scanned and they gave all the motion back to dad on VHS tapes. Oh nice. So so the actual even just that first copy would just be hideous compared to what the original print's the original next being missing. Dad then at some stage got at least got the um the VHS put onto DVDs, so there's a digital of sort version of it. Yeah, right. But uh but yeah, it's I it's he's got some pretty interesting stuff. Is that stuff all available on Trove? So could anyone go to the State Library? You can go to State Library, and I think uh if you search LS Lawrence Sydney Casson uh with a U, um, as in Lawrence with a U. Um not Sydney with a U. Um, I think that sort of comes up somewhere like that. But there's a there's there's a heap of stuff there. Oh, that's cool. So so but who put the camera in your hand? Uh Mum, I think it was eight box brownie. Um I love your mum. Yeah, she's all right. Um and uh Adele. Adele, that's the one. Uh Adele before it was funky to have a name. I know. And so yeah, she gave me the box brownie, and yeah, I reckon I went on year six school camp and took some photographs uh on it and thought, hey, this is pretty cool. Now hang on, we're talking 70s. Yeah, well, mid-70s. Early mid-70s. Um was it cool to have a box brownie? Or were you the no? I don't think so. It wasn't definitely it was not cool. So you weren't the cool guy. No, I was definitely wasn't the cool guy. It was just uh it was just a camera. I think even then it was still just no, no, there's probably still shit. I feel old, thanks, Paul. Um because they're great cameras, like they are great cameras. Um so yeah, I just I think I enjoyed that process. Yeah, and then um then it sort of went on from there. There was another family friend from uh up uh in the Maui, he was pretty keen, had his own dark room up in the farm. Cool. Um and he sort of was encouraging as well, and uh sort of got keen about it, and then uh went to school um just around the corner here and got into it then and had uh an amazing art teacher, Malcolm Gray. Um I know that name, he's he's been an artist around in Adelaide. Yeah, I think he's I think he's left the building, so to speak. But yeah, he was he was around in the arts scene for quite some time. But he was uh old male was great and very encouraging and um and yeah, it was access to a really good dark room and uh take lots of photographs. I just really enjoyed the process.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um I just thought, wow, this is really, really cool. I'd found something that I thoroughly enjoyed doing. Um, and then because you weren't you weren't a mathematician and a cricket player? No, no, no, absolutely not. What about football? Au contraire, I was a hockey player. Hockey? Yeah. How's your shins? No, fine. I was goalkeeper, I broke everybody else. Dude, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so um, so okay, you got the camera, it's the school encouraged it. Very nice done. Nicely done, school. Yep. Um, what did you do after school to to connect yourself with photography further?
SPEAKER_00:From there, I went uh having uh done appallingly at school. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely appallingly at school. But that's okay. These days, as uh you would have uh uh intervention, as it were, uh alarm bills would be going, it just you were just left in your own devices. The fact that you were just absolutely bombing was just well, there you go. Now you gotta dummy just like you know, what's going on? Blah blah blah. Oh, whoops, hang on, look, he's got dyslexia. Yeah, you know, let's put some uh uh uh support in place and blah blah blah. Isn't the world so much better? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, my son has got all that support. Yeah, um, and then I find out that I should have had all that support 20 20 years later.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, we had a very different growing up and of course and it was wonderful in its own way, yeah, but really like it was you freaking run over by the by the school system.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I had my had my gang, um, definitely, which I still have. Uh we will stay pla we still all play music together. This is the band. This is the band. Um, so we have been together minus one uh since then. Oh cool. Um we played last Monday night in the bass player's house. Oh, good fun. Um, but yeah, found my gang uh there and uh and sort of carried on. And then after, appallingly at school, um, what do you do in the early 80s? You go and get a job on a bank. Oh. So I did that um for a couple of years and then thought, wow, this could be terrifying for another 40 years. Um, so I went and uh did some study, uh, did um marketing after hours. Really enjoyed that. Again, I found I really enjoyed the um the the creative thinking about marketing, about coming up with concepts and all that sort of thing. Uh really, really enjoyed that. Um and then sort of within the bank went into their comms area, and part of that was taking photographs. Oh. Um, which anybody would have done if they had it was just to illustrate the internal magazines and all that sort of stuff. Um, but of course, I was taking probably better photos that have been taken for quite some time at that stage for the internal use. Um, and then they lost a couple of billion dollars. Um so it was around that time, was it? Yeah, it was around the time. It was used to be in the marketing comms area uh of State Bank when that all went down, it was it was some serious, serious, amazing stuff to watch and learn. Uh the pro it was incredible to see. And being right in the middle of it. Yeah. Um, you know, like now we uh if people are doing media releases, whatever, um, emails, bang, bang, bang, bang. This was staying back late, and everybody, all of us on the floor, are photocopying media releases, printing out labels and envelopes, and they're being hand delivered to different media organizations because there was there was no email or anything like that. It was pre-all of that. And you want to get there quickly, so so everything was just uh uh you know, all hard copy and sent out. It was pretty crazy. So yeah, did that, took a year off and went overseas. Right. Where'd you go? Everywhere, based in the south of uh UK, but then it went for a big joint up through Denmark and then down literally Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Greece. Photographing the whole way? Yep. But you know, I wish I could go back and do it all of that again, because you know you take better photos now at all. Egypt, all the way, all the way up through Germany and all across. So it was good fun. Wow. And then when I was sort of over there, I was 26, I had my 26th birthday on Corfu in Greece. Um, went for a water ski, which was great. Um and drank some really bad Greek red wine and thought that's right, I really enjoyed this photography thing. When I get back home, I'm gonna hone in on that. So got home um after that year away. So it's the red wine that focused you? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think it was the space, it was the mental space. Um and uh yeah, and then came back and got into it in inverted commas, which sort of took its form of um assisting people for nothing on a every day off that I'd have still working in the comms area back at the at the at the bank. Um every day off I'd have I'd go and carry bags at Orange Lane or go and do something at Southlight, whatever it might be. I'd work your way to the top. Yeah, I was just basically throw throw myself into it and just sort of uh learn as as as much as possible and just soak as much as possible in. Was it paperwork that was interesting you at that stage or products or cars? The product stuff, it's funny. Like the product stuff, um I enjoyed the process of it, but it's certainly not something that I wanted to go down the path of doing. Right. Because the idea of being stuck inside uh in uh a darkened room. Um adding or subtracting light. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I remember doing work experience in in year ten at school with Jug Brown on the straight. Um and that boy, that was a really interesting three days. You didn't pick up an addiction or anything. No, no, no, no. I'm amazed I kept to it after those three days. My master actually still went, Yeah, I'm gonna go and do this. Gosh, I remember him. Yeah, wow, that was that was an experience. And again, wow, yeah, crazy pants.
SPEAKER_01:I know it was a weird era, wasn't it? It was unnatural. There was so much money for those guys that it was just a free-for-all, really. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, his he his assistant set up it was a it was a wine bottle, which was a two-day shot, a single wine bottle. Wow. Um, to light it. His assistant pretty much set it up, uh, shot on 5-4. Um, and his assistant set it all up, got it to Polaroid stage. Doug came back from some drunken lunch um and had a look at the Polaroid and said, Yep, perfect, shoot it. And so his assistant loaded up the film or uh shot it, and that was that, and yeah, it was good. Good times. It's a wild time, really.
SPEAKER_01:But I mean the assistant's great because they got a lot of experience and totally, you know, and they learned like you couldn't get a better education, really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's kind of all almost all irrelevant because of digital. Like there's not all, but there's just a lot just went, well, we don't need those skills anymore.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, absolutely. Well, for me, like ever since um digital and also not needing extension cords for flashes, um, has meant that uh I'm pretty much a solo entity now. It's so rare that I would actually have someone alongside me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so yeah, I think and I think most people are that way now.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think we're all lone wolves just uh with a trolley with the uh a case full of battery pad flash and yeah, yeah, and cameras and away we go.
SPEAKER_01:So so where from assisting what did that lead you to?
SPEAKER_00:Um assisting, I think it was uh a a case of then um I sort of started assisting someone um and it was a couple of days a week fixed, yeah, which sort of gave me a basic bit of money. Did you out the bank? Yeah, yeah. So that sort of thing. You live pretty cheap uh when you're that young. So it was all fine. And um and then when I was well before then, I was actually uh worked at um that studio that was not be named.
SPEAKER_01:And that was good. It's an amazing amazing amount of people that have worked at the studio that should not be named.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And do you know what? It taught me so much. Um, I forgot, I jumped ahead, I forgot. I went basically, I ended up getting a full-time in an inverted commas job working for them from the bank. My mum was terrified that I was actually walking away from um bank job. Not like kind of bank job to this creative uh thing with uh full of crazy people. I can you can imagine your poor job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's uh but that was good. It was an amazing. It wasn't for too long, it was only I think it was less than two years I was there, but it taught you about dealing with people, listening to people, what it is that they were after. Um Actually fine-tuning and filtering through that might be saying this, but actually detecting what they mean is that. Um this is talking about a big portrait studio, a big, you know, glamour everything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was a glamour portrait basically. Yeah. Um but in the model of that sort of 80s, 90s behemoth with multiple locations.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm studios running 12 hours a day. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so you know, that's that's a lot of people. Sales team, sales room. Yeah, the whole thing. Um, studio space. Yeah, everything that went along with that. And and all on film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was all shot on uh you were shooting on Hasselblad at that stage uh for them. They moved over to 645 Mamiers towards the end of my time there. Was it six four five Hasselblad? No, uh 6'6.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, but 12 shot versus yeah 16. That would have saved a lot of money going to 16, 15, 16 shots.
SPEAKER_00:Like yeah, and it was good because you you're on tripod, etc. And you you you'll and I still to this day it sort of teaches you little things like your fingers on the shutter and you're about to go bang, but you just at that last split second, you've got the camera locked off and you you look at them, they haven't moved, and you squeeze it and you see the flash go off, and you can tell whether they've blinked or not.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So you can see them. You're looking at them dead in the eye, and you know what's a blink and what's not a blink. So just little things like that. How to deal with people, um, how to run a business, how not to run a business. Um, all of those, all of those things. It was really educational.
SPEAKER_01:So where did you pick up the you like I think you've got a a real sense of design and style, which I would have thought with looking at the branding for yourself that you've done and the style that you've put forward, that you would have had a design background. But the the cast and brand that you picked up and started operating under, where did that come? When did that come into play? Was that just after you left?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. This this yeah, it sort of uh I think that's that's when it came about that just the simple uh just my surname. Kept it simple like that. I didn't really I'm a it's business has got my name, my full name photographer, blah blah blah in it, but I just kept it straight Cast and Brandt. Yeah. Um just to keep it nice and simple. Um I've I don't know, I've always had like uh I like good design. It's not that I can do good design, but I like done it yourself though, like you put your logo together, didn't you say? I don't know. My logo, which I've been using for goodness knows how long now. Um that was done by Kath. I can't remember her name. She used to live in a little warehouse out the side at the back here on the side street of um. Oh yeah. Um I know you mean. Yeah, her other half um was in a uh porn store thing on Kim William Street, and they had cute little dogs. Anyway, that's awesome. There we go. We'll get back to that, and it's it's still alive to this day.
SPEAKER_01:That's how good a job uh she might. I mean, it's an amazing simple logo. Yeah, uh, I think most of it's heavy lifting's done by a great font. Yeah, absolutely. Future alike. Yeah, it just looks amazing. Yeah, uh and it's still relevant and it's still fresh.
SPEAKER_00:No, I I keep it simple. And with when when the wedding thing came along for me, um So weddings were the when you set up Cast and it was about weddings, was it? Or uh predominantly, yeah. Yeah, predominantly it was weddings because I was I was shooting weddings for um the studio. The studio that shot on the studio. Um so it was it was obvious, and then it just basically it moved on from there. You know, you you do a couple for friends, etc., and it goes on and then blah blah blah.
SPEAKER_01:Was it an age group thing? Your friends were at a certain age and you were yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_00:Because I so I would have been like um probably this stage, yeah, late 20s, maybe early 30s, uh barely. Um when did you meet Karen? Uh yeah that will not be named uh so this is your your long long-term partner, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:She's been with you forever. Yeah, and part of that, all of that craziness from the studio that's gonna be named. Yeah. What was she doing there? Stylist.
SPEAKER_00:Stylist. Stylist, uh meet, greet, front of house, blah, blah, blah. Listen to people, all that sort of stuff. So yeah. So you you two basically Oh, and she was behind the scene, uh, also behind the season post-production as well. She was working in that sort of thing. Masking negatives for that, yeah. Like I'm asking all that beautiful uh quarter of the negative, that six, six negative out. Um down for a little five, four format or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It was a business and it was a system and it and it worked. And it worked. So you both you guys both then started uh independent brand basically with packing weddings up front. Yep. And whatever else came by.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, whatever else came by, and there was there was little things, and then I sort of it was a case of I was doing those things such as Haystack Man and all those other were they for the AIPP awards? Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um because that's that must be where I saw them. So that's when I we first.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So what year do you think that might be? That would have been 97, I reckon. That late. Yeah. Okay. Okay. 97, 96, 97, 98, thereabouts. Okay. Um, so that was that was then. Um, so I was doing all that sort of which was essentially personal work, which is ironic given how on my personal opinion about awards and on personal work now. Um tell me about your opinion about awards, Simon. Come back to that point.
SPEAKER_01:It is a topic on the list. I can see it on my agenda here. Let's talk about awards.
SPEAKER_00:No, it's good. Um, so I was doing all those sorts of things with the Mamiya in me time, etc. Um, I was shooting weddings, me weddings with the Mamiya, the colour back, uh, black and white back. It's a big thing for a wedding. Yeah, it was your big biceps. Oh, yeah, it was good. I loved it. Um, I've always loved carrying too much gear for my own good. Um, so yeah, it was Is that a be prepared thing? Is that a that was a fail, so yeah, maybe. So I was doing that and I had a couple of Nikons shooting 35 mil black and bright and colour, so everything was covered off. So yeah, but I'd end up coming back with probably only between four and six hundred shots still. Um, even with all those cameras, etc. I was pretty economical how I how I shot. Did you shoot weddings for the studio that should not be named?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So what did they want you to shoot for a wedding? What's how many rolls, how many frames?
SPEAKER_00:They yeah, that I can't remember what it was, but it certainly wasn't much. They would give you like 120 or yeah, yeah, maybe more. So two pro packs. Yeah, at most. Hang on. A pro pack is 12 shots a roll. Five. Okay, yeah, right. Oh, so two pro packs. And I had to uh say, hey, listen, um I kept going at him getting, I said, listen, I've seen this guy called David Oliver, and he shoots all weddings and he shoots all this really candid stuff on black and white. We really should try and do some of that for fun. And I asked and asked and asked, and I said, nah, nah. And then one day they gave me a black uh roll black and white to take out for the for the wedding the next day, see what happens and not. It was nice of them to at least do that. Yeah, yeah. And it became a thing. So it really did. Yeah, so they they embraced it and and uh away we went. Otherwise, everything was just can you imagine everything until then was old school framed. Very well set up, very well set up staged, yeah, very well staged and set up, etc. With a a hassle blade with a mats hanging off the side of it and 45 CT or a 65 CT with a shoulder battery pack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just sort of looking just just one element removed from being that that old British photographer that would turn up when you'd get 10 frames. What's the birdie? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that's it. That's your wedding photos, 10 frames.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, how many photos are there at a wedding? Like, I'll get terrible. I mean, a I mean, no, how many photos, like just think about how many good important photos are there at a wedding? Forget nice photos. Yeah. Important ones.
SPEAKER_00:It's probably when it comes down to it, like when we were putting albums together, um we would have, I'd probably say we'd have between 70 and 120-ish thereabouts photos that would end up in an album. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, at a really rough ballpark. Two prepaks. No, that that's in uh yeah. So that's it. But it was good, it was really good fun. It was glory days uh as far as yeah, it was it was very, very cool. Um, and then I moved on and got a couple of my sevens um uh one color, one black and white, and that was that was changing because it was just so much faster. Yeah, because they're lightweight, yeah. Shoot like 35 mil. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had that and uh um and uh Nikon uh shooting some colour and my first uh M likeer uh at that stage shooting black and white.
SPEAKER_01:Because that's what David Oliver was using, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah. We all looked at David and went, and of course he had one pocket of unexposed film, one pocket of exposed film doing like four weddings on a Saturday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe more. Yeah, mad. Oh, it's just insane. Any anyhow, let's go, let's go back. Uh how long did the wedding game last for you guys?
SPEAKER_00:Um I know I know you that was like if that was probably like mid to late 90s, um I reckon it wound up really, it tapered, but I reckon I haven't shot one for or pre-COVID, so it's at least five or six years. Right, right. Five, six, seven years. And and yeah, it just sort of tapered away. Um, I'm happy with that. You think you you aged out of the industry?
SPEAKER_01:Yep. So what was it about the dealing with uh couples uh as someone who's not like 25, 30, 35?
SPEAKER_00:I think it was um I think the writing was on the wall. I didn't fight it. Um I knew that it was like, okay, who needs to see that fat bald or guy um at your wedding taking photographs? Um but I got it, I got it towards the end there, I think I was shooting the best I ever had. Um to be when I was shooting digital um with three lenses um and and a like of just with some black and white in it, um, and a small black bag. It was the freest I'd felt. Yeah, I felt like I was shooting the best I'd ever shot, and then it was time to go. So that's it. That's how life is. It's an eye-rolling moment. I have a and it's fine. It was the case I became, I didn't I I jokingly say I became old and cynical. Oh yeah, partially, maybe. Um, but it was just it was just a gentle parting of ways. Uh their expectations were uh in my eyes, borderline on unreasonable compared to what I'd been used to for so many years. It had just changed around a little bit. Everyone was interested in just getting shots on Monday to put on social media and wasn't interested in putting a$8,000 Winnergaben together.
SPEAKER_01:But if you're like if you're thinking that it's gone, isn't it? Really? Yeah, yeah, totally. And I have doubts about what they're spending the money on as a couple, but if you if you if you really start thinking that it'll show up in your face when you're dealing with them and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So it was a it was a it was a happy parting in in that respect. Not having said that, I'll I I really up until the very last one I did, uh thoroughly enjoyed shooting them. Um I jokingly a few of us would joke about what would it take to go and shoot another wedding now. And I'd say it's easy. I'd I'd love to go and shoot a wedding um as long as nobody talks to me. Um I can just be an observer and just go and go and uh wait that way, Sarn. I know, but you are I I've never thought of you as not a people person. Correct. And that is fine. That's why I say jokingly, no one's young couples in love. No, I just want to I think it goes to that whole I just want to be left alone to um take really really uh to observe and not have to semi-organize and direct and uh shuffle people, which was part of the wedding process. Um so the I I just liked the idea of being a 100% observer. Yeah, have your normal wedding photographer, I'll just lurk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I don't think there's a market for that though.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. Um, I mean, maybe with multiple important weddings where there's multiple shooters being used. Um so I second shot for a few people, but I don't know. That was the best time of my life. Really? Yeah. Because you there was no responsibility, just hand around.
SPEAKER_00:That's great, really enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01:Anyway, so I was gonna say, what what what what did that lead you to? So you discovered that you you felt like this was not the thing that was working for you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we peaked at probably shooting 60 weddings a year um in the sort of early mid 2000s. In the background, my commercial work was just still building up, it was getting bigger and bigger until what sort of clients then? Oh, it was everything, it was headshots, it was um, there was some product stuff uh which I begrudgingly did. Um where were you shooting that? Uh North Adelaide? Do you have a studio space? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So had space in North Adelaide for that. Um and PR firms and agencies. Um, and I would I would to go to get all that work, I would take all the work that I'd shot, my haystack man and whatever else I'd have been shooting, that was basically me work rather than this is what I've shot for agency X. There was bits of that smattering in there, but a lot of it was really personal work. So you're showing them what you wanted to do, and they responded to that well and said so.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. So I mean Sally Brownbill, if you listen back to her episode, he said one of the things that when young photographers come to her about what I put in my portfolio, she said, put in stuff that you want to do. Yeah, don't put in stuff that you think they might want to see.
SPEAKER_00:When I've done um a couple of things, I've done a folio review at least once, I've done it once um with Sally. Yeah, she gave me that message. Did she? Yeah, it was it was very, very good, very good advice. She was very, very helpful, and and we put together a really nice book um that you printed, um, and got a really, really good response. That's great.
SPEAKER_01:Um so you're showing the work, you're doing that sort of mixture of work. Yeah, where did you feel the work was suddenly drawing you to?
SPEAKER_00:Like I s I I found myself enjoying this the the stuff that was outside and was big and it was big industry sort of stuff. Cool. Um, so there was bits of Wolfgang Sievers. No, not no, don't even say his no um nothing. But big machinery and yeah, big machinery. I had some uh uh some energy clients, so there was big uh gas turbines and um and the airport came along um from a PR firm. Um they said, hey, you've got to go and knock on this door. Um, and I did, and they're still my client, you know, 24 years later.
SPEAKER_01:So the airport is an in is an independent organization, corporation, yes, owned by shareholders or government or yeah, uh they're not government owned, they're uh private organization.
SPEAKER_00:They've got uh shareholders, they've got like uh there's a couple, I think is it Uni Super? There is a big super innovation fund that is a major shareholder. Um I think there's a couple of super funds that are shareholders, and then there's a couple, I think they're so every airport run this way by the individual.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know what the makeup of uh others are, but I think I think some are government owned, but uh Adelaide is not.
SPEAKER_01:So what does an airport want to see photographically?
SPEAKER_00:Um when make them look good. Yeah, basically. And it was everything from uh shooting for them, it was everything from from people stuff like uh new stuff, et cetera, headshots, um things for annual reports, you know, execs, um you know, leadership managers, all that sort of thing. And then various, and they'd it was really cool actually. Every time we shot the annual report for the airport, it would be it would be themed uh as far as what they were showing, etc. So we'd end up with like a list of a whole heap of shots. We're gonna go uh wander around and uh whether it be a parafield which is uh part of um Oh, is it part of Adelaide? Yeah, yeah, part of Adelaide Airport as well. Um and yeah, we just scoot around and get some really, really cool shots. And it might have been like, let's let's get up on a like a the big cherry picker that uh changes the lot the lights um at the bays by the terminal, you know. So we're up there and uh and shooting some really cool angles. So it was um it was a i it was a case of like not being in a helicopter, but you're 40 meters up. Yeah, right. So it was pretty cool. You don't have any height issues? I love heights. I cannot get high enough, I cannot get close enough to the edge. Reviso being that it is absolutely 100% safe. Okay. I don't take risks.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. You gotta say that first, Karen, don't you? No, I just it's for me. Yeah, true. I I do, but no, I I check every seatboot before I get in a helicopter and I got into Robinson recently and uh I was really happy to get on the ground again.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I don't yeah, helicopters that start start up with a key worry me. I want to hear a turbine behind my head, preferably two. You're gonna hear a little petrol or rotary engine firing up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. No, it's it's it's that I mean that stuff is, and I don't know whether it's just um a boy thing, but it's really beautiful. Um, like it is beautiful stuff. It's uh it's almost like they've got so much money injected into them for safety, keeping them clean, keeping them neat. I think they are, and and those beautiful arc lines where the taxi ways to determine where planes need to go, they look really good when you get them from certain angles. But of course, it's such a rare thing to see because no one else can photograph this stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. I'm very, very fortunate to be able to go airside. Um, that's what we need to say.
SPEAKER_01:Go airside. Go airside, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the term for your so do you have to keep up your I'm not a terrorist check?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got a um uh a red ASIC, which is a um airside security pass. So basically I can go airside any airport in Australia.
SPEAKER_01:Um and was that fun to travel? Do you flash it when you're going into state?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, only it depends. Uh exactly it shortcuts you through the security line. Let's just put it that way. Does it? Yeah, yeah. You don't have to line up with the what about hand inspecting film? Same. Doesn't matter. Hand inspection, same, same. Do they give you the look that do I really have to do this? This won't hurt the film. Yeah, they do. Um, I took uh a camera with some film to Sydney a couple of weeks back, and I went, ah, blah, I just let them let it go through the machine. I may regret that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I just done a trip through to New Zealand and I did the first airport was Adelaide, and they did the full body scan, you know, hands above your head. Yeah, yeah. And then so your bags go through a specifically different kind of machine when you're doing that. Yep. It's a whole new organized thing. Um, and I put my and I just couldn't be bothered thinking about it. So I had my contacts too, I had a roll of 400 speed film in the camera, and I thought, whatever, like, yeah, whatever, I don't care that much. I just want to have a nice camera with me and take pictures, and if I get something, whatever. I get to New Zealand, the same airport machine, and there is a sign saying, Don't put your film through this machine. It would delete it. It it yeah, it was like that. And I said, Oh, and they and they said, just ask to have a hand inspected. So I handed it to the wonderful New Zealanders and they're like, Yeah, no problems. And they they scanned, they hand checked it and checked for it. Even though it'd have been through Adelaide, I assume the same machine with similar settings. On the way back, I went, I'm gonna be careful, hand inspect, hand inspect type of thing. Um, and of course, Adelaide it because you're coming in the final destination, it didn't matter. Yeah, and approached the film. There's no problems at all with it. Yeah, but I was you know, I've never seen that sign on an XRE machine. Yeah, preempting it. And I've never seen people happy to inspect it.
SPEAKER_00:I got really good. Um At rewinding film M6, rewinding it and hearing it come off the spool at the other end, and then opening it up and separating that so that hand is back that and then put the film back in and uh cover up the front and bind it through and get it back to where it was and just have one spare frame. I was like so proud of myself. That's the way to do it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's the way to do it. Yeah, no, it's an interesting, it's an interesting process. So uh shooting that that sort of stuff, is is that your main jam now?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think what I I what I do now, I think it's industrial, is how I yeah, a submarine corp? Uh don't do too much for them. I f go near submarines, um, but not for submarine corp. Uh yeah, so I don't do any work direct for any of the three forces. Um I do work for lots of defense companies that feed into goods, services, products into defense in the hope of selling them uh and getting contracts, etc. Yeah, yeah. So it's really interesting to s get to see some very interesting things. Frustrating that I can't put it on the social sometimes. Oh yeah. Because I get to see some way crazy things. Yeah. Um, but uh yeah, of course, you just unfortunately got to sit on it, which is pretty cool though. Well, yeah, I'd imagine that'd be nice. You know, an energy company um that uh, you know, we flew up to Moomba and then um got in a uh four-wheel drive and drove for days following the gas pipeline back down to Adelaide and shooting just life and everything because there's camps every couple of hundred kilometres where all the workers um are based for a couple of weeks at a time. Um, and yeah, that was really, really cool too. So you get to see that sort of thing is I'm very, very privileged. Um the sum of the things I get to see.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's every time you show something that we're allowed to see, it's like, oh, can I come and hold your lights or whatever? You know, it's one of those, I mean, yeah, it's it's a little predictable uh that I would be into those kinds of things, especially the big ship stuff that I've seen in photographs. It's just incredible. So tell me, what's it like being self-employed?
SPEAKER_00:Um, it is everything as you would know. Um, it is everything that's the best and the worst. It's the best and the worst thing uh uh about it. Um what's the old saying? Or the best thing about uh I don't know, the best thing is uh the best thing about being self-employed is also the worst thing, whatever they're saying.
SPEAKER_01:No, I know that's I get the saying it's like you've got all the freedom, but yeah, all the responsibility.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, all of that sort of thing. So uh is it's like every small business, you have moments and you go, what am I doing this for? Um, where is the joy? You've just had a you've just had a uh particularly crappy day and things can go how particularly how you wanted them to. And normally that's just behind the scenes. I don't have crappy days shooting. Um they're always okay. You have challenging moments, etc., but you always you get through them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, it's it's usually behind the scenes stuff, uh, the admin, the boring, crappy admin stuff that that that we all have to deal with. Um, it's just yeah, stuff that are a little bit ordinary. But then the the good things are um happen every day as well. You know, I get to uh last Friday I was down at the airport and we had uh uh Santa there and we roamed around for four hours, uh airside Santa directing aircraft off the apron. Um so we were just putting a getting a whole heap of material for them to bank for um that's great, yeah, for Christmas, etc. and beyond. Um, and it was the best, best fun ever.
SPEAKER_01:Well, the uh the thing that other thing which I I absolutely adore about you is the dedication to the Christmas pageant, which I know has only just ended because um because you you your boy Ted is just a little bit past 26 cents. So tell me, how many years have you been queuing up at what time in the morning to get a good seat? It got earlier, like it was it was why did it get earlier, Simon? Because the other people got earlier. No, no, no, because you wanted to hang out with your mate and drink by the yeah, we did actually.
SPEAKER_00:So I think the last couple of years, um, we ended up getting there about eight or nine o'clock at night to get so think about this listeners. They're they're they've finished dinner at home and they're going, see ya, honey. I'm just going in to set up. So we go in and uh my mate Bruce and I um we set up a card table and a couple of chairs on the median strip. Um in the middle of King William Street. Middle of King William is still going, the trams are still going um up and down, and yeah, we crack open the scotch. You'd have a thing. Wait, the first ones there? Oh no, definitely, absolutely not. Um so yeah, we'd crack open the Scotch and and the pack of you know cards, and uh we'd just have an absolute marathon you know, and um if anybody ever asked, because we had uh camp cups, etc. Um, we'd just say, oh, we're on the green tea. And I think the last year we were there, um probably good timing uh because we actually reached for the second bottle um in the early hours of the morning. So honey, I think Ted one year was pretty funny. Um, because it was over course of like nine hours, you don't notice it, it sneaks up anyway. Um but uh yeah, I remember one year Ted came along and uh Bruce and I were sitting there and it was cold and it was all rugged up. And Ted said to Karen, Who's that homeless man over there? Yeah, that's me. So Dad. Yeah, that's all good. So yeah, no more, no more pageant. Um Bruce and I did wonder how we could get away with still going and drinking on higher than exactly. We'd ended up being bloody uh arrested. So so so were you stopped two years ago? Oh, it was a good couple years ago, I reckon. Maybe three years. So Ted's probably 17, 16. Oh well, no, I reckon it was I don't think we've been back since COVID, actually.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. You're the only person as dedicated to it than over my mother, yeah, who still hasn't flown back from Cairns to do it, but she would take us there every year and even to she'd take her mother. We were going, if she was here, we'd be going. Even my 20-year-old kids.
SPEAKER_00:Two things that happened that were always hilarious. One was uh at about five, six, maybe even seven in the morning. You'd see a dad walk around the corner, he's got arms full of chairs and he's walked around the corner and just gone. Oh, space dropped. I should have been here six hours ago. So you go first time you're here, isn't it? Yeah, okay. And the other one was in the last couple of years, people were coming along putting blue tarps down, putting chairs on them and going home.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Un Australian.
SPEAKER_01:That is un Australian. Un Australian. So for interstate listeners who don't understand, this is the largest. This just sounds crazy, but it's the largest Christmas pageant in the world. Is that right? Bigger than I think it is. I don't know. Like Macy's is Thanksgiving Day parade. It's not that. It's a parade, street parade for Christmas, but it is the largest in the world. Yep. And what sort of crowds do we get? Like 600,000 or something? Oh, it's massive.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know if it's that many, but it's it's uh it is a lot. It is a big crowd. And it's uh it's good fun. My two nieces were in it this year, actually. Oh, wow. Yeah, they were on uh a couple of floats uh singing and stuff. So were they photographed by anyone? I don't know. Because there's always a pageant photography. It would be, so no doubt they're out there somewhere. It wasn't something you were tempted to because I believe you can volunteer for it. I had to because it was back in the days of when then Bank SA was sponsored for a couple of years. Um I had to photograph it. Um, just get some shots of it. So I was like free and easy on the um with a press pass. Yeah, that was like kid can't see, get out of the way. So you were just constantly shoot a couple of frames, move somewhere else, shoot somewhere. And it was on the move the whole time. It was very, very daunting. It's a weird cultural anomaly.
SPEAKER_01:Like when you sit in front of it, you go, Oh my god, this is dated. We must be in the most backwards state, backwards environment, you know.
SPEAKER_00:The most terrifying person in the crowd, grandma. Grandma, grandma will do anything for the grandkids to get the good view. Yeah, that's my mum. It's all of them, it's how it is. It's it's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, it's a strange, it's a strange thing. And um, I think it's great that, you know, like there's a lot of things about South Australia that we both sink ourselves into that we really love about it. And that is just one of those things. And every year I it goes by, I kind of think, uh, you know, it keeps changing that thing. And I always enjoy being there. I'm not like my mother who bursts into tears when she sees Santa come around the corner, anywhere like that. I mean, I don't believe in Santa Claus, but she's right, still there, hoping you'll bring her presents. You never know. You never know you like. You never know you like. Um, so no, we were we before we sort of digressed a little bit into being the Christmas during the Christmas, um, we were talking about um uh like I I think the reason I said this at the beginning, the reason why interviewing you, I think you are a very relevant photographer because you're still in business producing soul bread winner for a house of three. Yeah, yeah, you know, doing everything. Yep. Um, and you're operating as a business. There's a lot of people who have found that that's taken their love of photography away because they've had to earn a living from it. Have you ever felt that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um I th I enjoyed the awards process early days because I was winning. I was back on the awards, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is part of the personal thing. So I was I was doing that, and then I got into the stage where I was getting the the level of work that was commissioned of me that allowed me to actually shoot stuff that was I was comfortable putting to awards and it was winning things. So that was that was that was very record. That for me was uh rewarding. Um I did have a moment where I can't remember when what when it was, but I I did realize that it wasn't taking enough me photos. It was all all work and no play. Is that a case you didn't have the time to? I don't think I had the time to, no. Or the headspace. Uh I reckon it was time or it didn't, or I just didn't make the time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um so I decided I needed to do that um a lot more. So I sort of downsized gear um and got some uh some really simple film gear, because all my personal stuff I shoot on film, I don't shoot any personal stuff on digital at all. Um so I went, I've got to go and take photographs from me. And instantly felt a gazillion bits better. Really? I was going where if I'd be going somewhere, I would um if I was going, even it was it was even a case of if I was going somewhere, it was a two, three-day job where I'm going to shoot stuff uh in the middle of Victoria and it's a road trip or whatever, I would put the film gear in the boot as well, and I'd stop um and photograph things that I'd see, etc., which ordinarily I would you know have would have just driven past. Just to remind myself, like this is this is what it's about. It's about seeing something and and capturing it. And also probably subliminally, um subliminally, I'm thinking about my grandfather traveling and taking photographs of things he was seeing. Um so yeah, it in in more recent years that sort of played on me a lot more as far as documenting things that won't necessarily be around forever, um, places, etc., and people.
SPEAKER_01:Um so you in doing that, I know you've had the experience of uh of um LS's work going to the state library. What do you imagine becoming of this documenting places that won't be around anymore? What or are you planning on something? Is this a retirement thing that you're gonna you're gonna wanna do? Did you just say the R word? The R word. Um like when you feel like you've got time you're gonna be making stuff of it to tell the story, or is it something you think I'm just gonna give it to the State Library?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. Because I mean there's two parts. Like I've got a a steel built, you know, those two-door loaf cupboards full of wedding eggs. Yep. What do I do with them? Now I've just what I've just done then is uh completely I've gazumped myself because every time I mention that steel cupboard within three days, someone whose wedding I shot 15 years ago they want it, they will call me asking for access to get a print organized.
SPEAKER_01:Isn't it's interesting? Um the the one thing I haven't touched on with you is I've noticed over the years of helping you in the back end sometimes and looking at things that you're very organized. Yeah, that your filing system is is very thorough, your digital filing system is very thorough, you've got a great naming standards and you've stuck to it the whole way. So one thing the state library does want is organized collections. Yeah. Um so you know, conceivably your stuff would be right for the picking for them. They don't want they don't want a higglery-piggity mess of stuff, they want organized collections.
SPEAKER_00:And why shooting it for them? No, not necessarily. I'm just shooting it for me, etc. Document things because I'm a massive, massive uh fan of seeing photographers from 18, late 1800s and beyond locally, uh, the Samuel Sweet stuff and Ernest Gill.
SPEAKER_01:I probably see you more on those poking around those Facebook groups. They're like a couple of bloody dirty old men looking at those Facebook groups, yeah. Just look commenting on how sharp that pick like these these these are tall ships and they yeah, the port is full of them, like getting maybe 40 or 50 in there, and you can see the ropes on one that would be a kilometer away. I know, it's and there'd be movement. This film would be 12 ISO at fastest, yep. You know, on this sheet, it'd be 10 eight plate cameras, and yet they got it sharp.
SPEAKER_00:I know, like to to look at it and I just think it's uh I think we all photographers have a little bit of responsibility to record history um in a considered manner. Um you don't have to do a lot of it, but just do bits of it. Um and the bits that interest you. Yeah. Like I photographed the back of the um the train station before that abomination Sky City Bronze uh piece of crap got built. Um it's a lot, isn't it? Yeah, and of course, yeah. So I like uh seeing all those amazing old photographs, and I'll find myself, you know, in a quiet moment later night just looking and seeing, okay, what's there now? Did that building survive? Has it survived? So, and in turn, that's turned me into a little bit of a closet um appreciator of heritage and closet historians, yeah, all that sort of stuff, and uh get your hands off the parklands and all that. I don't go and protest or anything, but I did go to save the cranker. Um so all that all those sorts of things. I just yeah, I get a little bit frustrated quietly on my own.
SPEAKER_01:I think you know, it's interesting that stuff. I I think there's real value in the tension between that and development and progress. We're in a very lucky little state in that it hasn't got the money to do radical things generally. Yeah. So like things like the Museum of Economic Botany in the Botanic Gardens is an 1880s museum. Yeah. Still looks like it was, and yet if you're in any other state, it would have been bulldozed or renovated to within an inch of its life.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and we're in the spot, sweet spot. So that tension between, I'm not suggesting people like you, but people who don't want to see things change, but people who who want to get on with the things, that tension is really important, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:I think it is important, and it's funny you could draw a parallel, I reckon, in some respects, like you can go, oh, it's a shame we lost the exhibition building on North Terrace, and it's a shame we lost, you know, the um South Australia Hotel and all those sorts of amazing buildings around, which you probably wouldn't even know, and they disappeared if it wasn't for social media. Yep. Um but you yeah, you gotta you gotta move on. Similarly, it's sort of in parallel, it's how I look at business as well. That part of me is behind. I've got to move on and look at okay, what are people wanting now? Um how can I service my customer? They want this and this and this, um, so that I add things to my little toolbox um to offer them that's very pragmatic to keep up to date. So you're doing video now? I started it pretty much uh as soon as COVID hit. Right. Um I had a big defense client that was um putting a bid in for a massive contract. Um and ordinarily they'd go and do a face-to-face um to uh defense for up to three hours that would be allotted. And accordingly, they were allowed to have uh to submit an up to three hour video. So my contact said, Hey Simon, we need to put a video together. Can you help us? And I went, let me get my manual out. Yeah, sure. You're a Nikon shooter for digital, aren't you? Digital, yes. Yeah, yeah, but um, and this I said yes. Um, and then so if you can imagine switching over a Nikon D810 to video and then shooting some video with that, it's like shooting JPEG instead of raw. So I had to nail everything, but it wasn't too bad because the video was a lot of it was about 94. Um, it was more of a presentation than video. There was about 94 um uh stills, stills, you know, like uh PDFs and bits and pieces. Yeah, and then there was a lot of supplied audio from around the world from the specialists for that particular area, and then there the the video part that I was shooting was pretty much like uh pieces to camera, right? Uh and that sort of stuff. So the camera's locked off sort of thing. Yeah, um, but yeah, gee, did you know when you start video, audio is a thing, isn't it? Wow, audio's a thing. It really is, and it's still a thing. I'm ever like it's funny. I think um someone else told me, get into video. So I'm before this happened, and that's why I said yes. And it uh it came off fine. Um, we as photographers, we know how to frame something, we know how to light something. So as far as that side of things are concerned, with video was not a problem at all.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um audio was a really big learning curve.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I don't know anyone who hasn't struggled with audio. Yeah. Even experts in audio. Yeah. It's a really unusual uh it's a thing, unusual bandwidth that we're not used to working towards, you know, as people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um those people that live with cans on their head and boom mics, you know, yeah, that they're just you can see they're in their own world.
SPEAKER_00:So it I I did that. Uh there was, you know, I was just about to upgrade my computer. Um and there I was. That's the other thing you need besides audio skills. Holy goodness. So they're um doing this. The video was like two hours, 53 minutes long, and it'd take like over three hours to render. So it'd be like um black magic, DaVinci resolve. Yeah, yeah. It was like, okay, that's great, Simon. Now at the one minute, sorry, one hour 22 minute mark. This one here, can you just uh swap out that um slide with this slide, please? Yep, no problem. So it'd be like a 30-second change, but a three-hour render. It was a few all-nighters. Um but so you picked a camera give your computer gear up now. Yeah, this they got the they won the contract. Oh wow. And bless them. Uh they when there was signing time, you know, about a year later, uh, they flew me over to photograph the signing. It was a 10-minute thing, but they it was nice of them to acknowledge that that's lovely. So they said, come on, come and photograph this because you got it here and blah blah blah. They sell a client of yours. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's killer. Yeah, one of my favorite clients. So I'll get to see some amazing things with these guys, and I shoot a lot of video for them. Right. So video has definitely uh become a thing. I looked at the percentage breakdowns at the end of the financial year of what I do, it's headshots, what I do is events. I still shoot events. Yeah, I know. Like there's ailing off the top of the hill. Hotel for seven-year-olds' birthday parties. Um, and uh, you know, the commercial stuff and then uh video stuff. And uh I was I'm really surprised how much video has has come to the fore as far as what I do. Would you call yourself a content creator nowadays, or is that a whole nother gig? No, that I think that's a whole nother gig. There's a whole uh bunch of people a whole lot younger than me that uh correctly call themselves content providers um because they know how to do the thing from go to woe. Yeah. I can I can create the content, I can uh create the putting it together for the posts though. Yeah, all that sort of stuff. As far as like creating and then I can I can grab the content. That next step of outputting something that's in the appropriate format and blah blah blah and that sort of thing. Horizontal vertical, yeah, and all that sort of thing. Yeah, sequence that's where I would have to have someone else sit alongside me. Are you tempted to start learning that?
SPEAKER_01:I sort of am, but because I know a lot of photographers who are making good money on that side of it. Yeah, and I know one one customer is got it now a contract to turn up every Saturday or every time the the event's running like twice a week and just shoot content. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's um and post. Yeah. It's it's something that I'm definitely looking at um because that's the next leap for me. I'm sort of doing it now, is just the finishing off part of it, yeah. Which which I'm not doing, which I'm leaving to the client. And you see, what all what else has happened in more recent years is ad agencies, PR firms, uh and big clients have got those content creation people in-house. Right.
SPEAKER_01:So they are young people, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And they know what they're doing, and that's great. I'm it's it's it's wonderful that they know what they're doing and they can do also like I've got a whole heap of people that I might create all this content for, and they're happy for me to then hand that across, and then they do the next step of creating the posts and doing this and doing that and the sets of it. But it looks so much better when it's well shot, yeah. You know, like a whole nother thing. Yeah. So yeah, no, it's I think the the trick is to I don't go through life worried and getting narkey about people 20, 30 years younger than me going, uh what's the point? There's no there's nothing to be achieved in that. We're all trying to do something and you know, create a wonderful thing for our clients. I don't I just don't have a problem with it. I'll I just think it's a challenge to myself to make sure I don't I don't lag behind.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I don't become irrelevant. Um, I sort of keep in touch with what's what's going on, what people are doing, what people are creating. So yeah, I'm always looking at uh things like what some of these content creators are doing and like they're yeah, they're doing all these full-on packages and things of uh etc. That's not something that appeals to me, but it works for them and that's great. Um, but yeah, I just I just like taking photos. I've enjoyed the video side of things. I really, really have. That's interesting, isn't it? Yeah, I surprised myself. Is that because you've got a love for movies and stuff? Yeah, absolutely. Um I'm no David Fincher, um, but I enjoy putting things together. I'm in the midst of putting one together just like a three-minute rap video, not rap with a W at the front. Thank you, R for that front. Yes, I know what you're doing. It's not an NWA. Sorry, it'll be a bit L-A-M-E. Straight out of Continent type video. Um Straight out of Croydon, did you say? I just saw an amazing video, uh rehearsal Saturday Night Live where Ice Cube was rehearsing with uh brutes, the band. Oh yeah, and they just arked up and played straight out of Contin. And it's that someone's filmed it on a phone. It is amazing. Anyway, that's it on YouTube. We'll do. We'll do. So yeah, the video thing I really surprised me uh how much I enjoy putting the final product together.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like I said, sometimes the clients just want the individual bits that I've captured that they'll then throw together internally or just use those bits one bit at a time for social media. Um, but when people want me to put something finished together, I enjoy that. What I'm putting together at the moment, yeah, it's it's from uh how do you feel about sitting inside staring at the screen?
SPEAKER_01:It's not outside shooting, like it's dark, you know, like product photography again, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's yeah, in some respects it is. Um, but yeah, I don't mind it. I don't mind it. It's it's it's a challenge. Like the one I'm putting together at the moment is find some music. Yeah, you've got to create titles. Yeah, they've got a corporate identity, a global corporate identity, which I have to follow. So I've got to use the right fonts, right colours, all that sort of thing. So I enjoy the challenge. And maybe that's that design thing you're talking about. I enjoy uh creating those uh fonts and uh uh those slides named uh etc. and putting it all together. Um they throw me some animations which are from their global uh headquarters to throw at the end to finish it up, etc. Cool. Um, you know, throwing some half speed b-roll over the top of it and blah blah blah. It's good. I enjoy the process and I will enjoy when they say it's perfect. Have you have you made any music for it too? No, I haven't made music. No, I mean, like you guys, you got a band, so yeah, I'd be sure if um some of my corporate clients would really like um old geezers playing uh the stooges or um you never know really loud stuff. It could work, you know, pitch it. Or pixies, you know. Pixies. You could you could pitch it. Yep. Or you can have this. Or you could have just something which is off the pixabase stock library.
SPEAKER_01:That's right, that's right. So, so like we're getting onto our hour now, and so we're coming towards the end of the interview. I I want to know what your what you're wanting to do personally now with your photography. What's the personal stuff that's lifting your heart, making you want to take photographs again? Because I'm always afraid of people losing their love for it, especially people who do amazing work like yourself. I like what is it that you're doing to kick that? I think um we're all gearheads, aren't we?
SPEAKER_00:Uh we all have gas. Uh all my my film cameras, uh, apart from the IB RB, are all all likers. And I can say that because I bought them a long time ago. Who I can't afford them, no one can afford them now. Um certainly got a bit crackers. So no new likers here though. These are all No, I've got a Lyker SL. Oh, yeah So the mirrorless, which is really, really cool. I'm it's my first and only mirror. Oh, sorry, the Sony for video is mirrorless, of course. Um, but I don't I haven't shot a single steel frame on that. Um that's just I bought that purely for um for video. Um and the SL is amazing. I can't believe the viewfinder's off the charts. Yeah, I was amazed when I look at Arnold. Yeah, so yeah, I'm a bit old school. I still use DSLRs for for stills because I like it.
SPEAKER_01:You can't now though, like you can't be a member of the Nikon collective pro without a couple of new bodies, can you? I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I have I've never had a body. You see, this is the thing. I've I've never got that wrapped up in gear. I've never owned D3s, D4s, D5s. Right. I've always had the next one down. So what are you what are you gonna do? What are you gonna replace the D800s with? Uh I've got D810 at the minute. Yeah, um, I've got a D810 in a box under my desk with 1200 frames on it. Um and I don't know, might upgrade it to a low shutter count D850. Right. It's a very expensive exercise. Sorry, Toby. It's a very expensive exercise to change up to all the Z. I mean, yeah, it's wild. But the ZR, the video could be my gateway drug from switch out my Sony and drop the ZR in there to shoot my video on the ZR. You still might you might find yourself doing some stills now. You never know. Like I said, it could be my gateway drug. But to your question about personal work. Personal work on the love of I still have to make myself go and shoot personal work. I still enjoy doing it. Um I do always have the camera in the boot, whatever if I'm going for uh anything remotely more than 20 minutes away from home.
SPEAKER_02:Um and do you have a plan for that work? No.
SPEAKER_00:No, do you have it like a wild dream for that work? No. No. I just I'm just shooting it and collecting, it's for me. I look at it as going to the gym. It's something you gotta do. Exercise. Um, it's exercise for the brain, it's exercise for seeing. Um, you've got to you've got to keep your seeing um practiced. You've got to you've got to keep out there and seeing something. So rather than something that's driven by what the client wants, you're actually seeing something that's that you're looking for, not looking for that's coming in front of you, etc.
SPEAKER_01:There's a there's a group of documentary photographers that g gather at the Ballarat Biennale. You haven't thought of joining a group like that or something and show work as a part of a collective?
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, I'm not sure that the the stuff that I've shot is is connected to each other enough for that. You know what I mean? So the the from the what I want to do is, and I think we might have spoken online about it briefly a while back, is I need a project. I need a project that's got some connection. Yeah. The collection of images or whatever I do in the end are connected all together. They've got a theme or something. And they go somewhere for some purpose. Yeah. Yeah, it's got a so what that is, I don't know. And I've actually, to the extent is um I've written a little note in calendar and Apple Calendar, which says, What is your personal project? And it just sits there every Monday. And I shift it to the next Monday. That's okay. But the fact that I'm shifting it, I'm aware of the question. Yeah. So I'm I'm so yeah, I was just haven't found it yet. No, and I the see the thing is I don't know what it is. Um, and I'm doing stupid things about already thinking what would I shoot it on? Um, but I'm getting ahead of myself about getting over the case. So yeah, yeah. So there So you're not gonna enter in any awards, you're not I mentioned the A word. Awards? It's funny, isn't it? Um the awards, I was lucky enough to have some success on awards here and there, you know, one done well. Early days in the late 90s, I won port SA portrait photographer three years in a row, something stupid. Um, and then from there I did well. You know, with the AIPP APA system, I got ended up uh master photographer with three bars or whatever it was, or that sort of crap. And it's only and then uh runner-up commercial photographer and one commercial photographer, Australian commercial photographer of the year. Um, but that was only because there was a cheat in Victoria that have everything stripped off of her. So I won it by. But that means you're right behind your your runner-up until she tripped over. Correct, correct. But she could go in and have the glory and the dinner on that sort of stuff, and I got something in the post five years later. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah, that well, shit happens. Um, but then AOPP disappeared, and I had four images which were absolute donkers to uh to uh send in, and they got sent back, of course, and then everything shut down. And the funny thing is, I don't miss it. Yeah, don't miss it. I've got no interest in was that the thing though that that got you shooting a bit more like and producing something from I think it was, but it was, but do you miss that side of it? But all the stuff I was shooting that I was entering in awards for at least probably five, eight or so years up until it finished, was all commission stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Right now, so it was that stuff for judges or for you? Did you enter it because you knew the judges had like it?
SPEAKER_00:No, I entered because you did the stuff that I like. That was the my That's very cool. I these these are what I thought were my four strongest shots I'd shot in the last year. Um, and put them in. So that's how the award should work. And yeah, I got internally ropeable when uh the commercial category got a non-commissioned non-commissioned, yeah. So a photograph that nobody asked for and whatever could suddenly make you commercial photography of the year. Um so it's sort of in the word, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it's commercial. I mean, if you've sold it, maybe. Yeah, but if you haven't sold it yet, yeah. And it got to the stage where then you could actually do some crazy artworking, etc., and acknowledge it, but still you could artwork things. So it was photographs that no one asked for and weren't really actually 100% real, um, could win that. So I I don't miss the AIPP. Um, the latest iteration that's sort of trying to come out of the ashes hasn't got me twinged or tweaked in any way, whatever. All of the um awards the uh that are around there, there's various different uh competitions now. Um they they don't interest me. I just think I think um yeah, the idea of just sort of I I don't think anybody really cared. Um I think in the first place.
SPEAKER_01:Why did you join their ARPP in the first place?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, because I think it was just what we would do if we wanted to get that sort of in the mid 90s, it was the thing you did. Yeah, it was the thing you did, and it was it was interesting to get that feedback and recognition. Yeah, I really enjoyed sort of running from one room to the next to hear what the judge has said about this, and yeah, what do they know? Stupid. It was a great physical event, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I I I enjoyed it, but uh now that it's gone, I have no interest in whatsoever. So I want to sh I want to shoot stuff for me. Um I don't particularly have any need to be um told by someone else, uh another photographer that uh this is the best in Australia. Um well it's not actually, it's just the five photographers that you could get off their ass and actually enter. I have that issue with the Olympics.
SPEAKER_01:I'm like that that guy won that is not the fastest person in the world. Someone's being chased in the in the middle of nowhere by something horrible, and they're faster than that. So what are you saying is the fastest person? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it is an issue. Uh that is an issue. I I I wish them all the best. I really do, and I'll support them if they go places, but it's hard. I don't like the idea of reiterating the same thing again.
SPEAKER_00:Um no, no, I'm I'm happy for it to swim by the wayside. And I'm just yeah, if it if it works, whatever for them, fantastic, go to it. But I think that whole um community thing, I think it's I think it's gone. Yeah, yeah. In that respect is what it was. I don't think you can't you can't create that again. And I think there's little subcommunities online that have sort of come out um as a consequence of that major one community disappearing. Uh there's a whole everyone communicates in different ways and s in such small groupings now, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean there's a small group of what they're wear on. Yep. And I think that is really representative of what the institute is. Kind of a place to share your dramas with clients and successes and all those sorts of things. Um, what's the perfect day for you?
SPEAKER_02:Perfect day for me. Uh is it a camera in hand? Yeah, absolutely. It is it's definitely there.
SPEAKER_00:We go. There is no question. That's how I know we've got a live one here. Yeah, no, it's it's definitely got a camera in hand. I mean, there's there's two perfect days. The perfect day that where I'm getting paid for um uh involves aircraft or aerospace. Are you in a helicopter? Yeah, probably. So you never do drone stuff? You're always in an aircraft. I do drone stuff. I do drone stuff now. Yeah, um, I I was really sort of eh, drone, drone, drone. It's a bit like Fred North and drones. You've got Fred North, Instagram, look him up. Oh, it's amazing. He's a lunatic. I'm gonna write it down for the show notes. Yeah, please do.
SPEAKER_01:Fred North is a is an amazing man. Um he's a pilot of a helicopter for camera activities, yeah. So he shoots a lot of productions. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:What he does with a helicopter is insane. Insane. Um, so yeah, I still shoot stuff with drone. Uh I've found a neat little zone in which the drone zone. I can I can travel in which where um it's too hard to get permission from Casa in six, eight weeks before you actually get an answer back from him. You paid$800, you've uh$800 admin fee to apply for it. Um, versus I can get in a chopper in two days' time and go and shoot it and get it done. Um there's other situations where the drone is perfect um because it's just low-level stuff. I can fly where they want me to go, etc. So I do both. Right, right.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I thought I just didn't hear back when we last spoke. I seem to remember that you were pretty thrilled about helicopters more so thanks.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, there's no doubt about that. That's a no-brainer. Like I got the job of the year, job of the year this year, it might not be just this year, was in the Torres Strait for a client with two beautiful brand new Italian helicopters flying between islands and the Torres Strait, ending up being about 30 Ks off of Papua New Guinea in the end. Wow. And uh so air-to-air work. Yeah. You're shooting the other helicopter. Yeah, yeah, and on the ground, lots of on the ground stuff and shots of it taking off, coming in, looping, etc. So that's cool. Yeah, that was that was pretty good. Yeah, wow. It was very, very cool.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:So I get like I said, I get to see some very interesting things, and then I get to photograph headshots of accountants. That's life, it's life, and it's what I do. I've always been open to it. Like I said before, I still shoot events, the events at the right price. Yeah. Um uh usually bigger things and interstate planners and that sort of stuff. Um, because I actually somehow enjoy that and do it well. Um, so I I do a real mix.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, that's cool.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you for your time. Sort of answer all your questions. You really did. You did a great job. And we didn't get bitter, we didn't get, we didn't drink too much.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no, no, no. No, it didn't get better. I saved that for our um private inbox.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So uh the bitter's not bitter. We're not bitter. No one's a bitter. Um, it's just it's funny, you get to a certain age and you realize it's hard to chase that relevance and keep changing. You you tackle that better than most people I know, you know, like it's my mother's fault.
SPEAKER_00:My mother uh turned 80 in January just gone. She keeps herself young. As you know, she was uh at your school. Yep. Um, like a head of admin sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. She was the secretary to the deputy head and blah blah blah. Um, she's always surrounded herself by young people with young people. Um, so and she's always active, etc. So I think that to me is the secret is to just keep moving. Yeah, keep moving, seeing what's out there, etc. You're not competing uh against anything, it's just like seeing what's out there and making sure you remain relevant and just keep creating quality stuff, which is what I want to do. I haven't, I don't feel like I'm anywhere near wanting to stop. That's amazing. Someone said to me, You're gonna retire because I had a significant birthday in August. And I said, Not by my choice, it'll be my client's choice. Yeah. When they stop ringing and phoning and emailing or whatever that method of communication will be. What's the issue?
SPEAKER_01:Like, what's the issue? Nothing. I don't, yeah, it's a it's a big mental block for some. And there's also there's people who've been working in corporation at the banks. Still probably dying to get out at that birthday. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas you get to do what you want to do, even though it's not that easy making it all work.
SPEAKER_00:I could have spent the last 40 years in a grey cubicle um in a corner.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, sure. And I'd have 3.7 million at superannuation and a beach house and da da da da that I've also would have spent 40 years in a grey cubicle.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I love what I do and I still do. And that's great.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. How great to be able to do what you want to do. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for your time, son.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for asking me and thank you for the tourist.
SPEAKER_01:It's yum, isn't it?