At the Complex Systems Society of the Americas conference in Santa Fe, host John sits down with archaeologist and complexity scientist Stefani Crabtree to explore the unexpected paths that lead to agent-based modeling. From studying theater and music to traveling the world on a fellowship and working in contract archaeology, Stefani’s journey into computational modeling was anything but linear.

In this episode, Stefani shares how agent-based models help researchers reconstruct the past from exchange networks in the American Southwest to the rise and collapse of hierarchy in ancestral Pueblo societies. She explains why modeling human systems is both powerful and controversial, how simple models can resolve decades-long academic debates, and why thinking like a modeler changes the way scientists approach complex questions.

The conversation also explores how insights from archaeology can inform modern policy, including work with Aboriginal communities in Australia that influenced government decision-making. Along the way, Stefani reflects on “What the Flux” moments turning points where different choices might have changed history or her own life, from the halted expansion of the Mongol Empire to a near-career in music.

It’s a wide-ranging discussion about complexity, history, and the power of asking “what if?”