Out To Make Queer a Joyful Norm

Queer for Cities' inaugural episode, hosted by Joshua Croke, delves into the significance of creating inclusive, equitable, and joyful urban spaces for queer and trans folks. Josh introduces the show's mission to advocate for queer urbanism as a means to improve cities for everyone. The podcast highlights the challenges that marginalized groups, especially queer and trans folks, face in urban settings, emphasizing the importance of intentional design in making cities more inclusive. It also touches on the intersectionality of various marginalized identities and the compounded effects of discrimination. The episode features guests MG Xiong and Taj Smith, who discuss their personal journeys and the broader significance of visibility, belonging, and connection for queer and trans people. Additionally, the show explores the intersections of queer identity with religious beliefs, the importance of affirming spaces, and the potential of science fiction in imagining inclusive futures. Tune in next week for part 2!

00:00 Welcome to Queer for Cities: Unveiling the Vision

00:27 Introducing Joshua Croke: Queer Urbanist

00:55 The Mission: Building Inclusive Cities for All

02:12 Why Language Matters: Embracing Queer and Trans Identities

03:35 Setting the Stage: Values and Goals for Our Community

07:26 Acknowledging the Land and Its People

12:19 Exploring Queer Urban Life: Guests Share Their Stories

24:52 Navigating Family and Religion as Queer Individuals

37:14 Imagining Trans Futures in Religion and Beyond

44:05 Poetry and Hope: Envisioning a World That Values Life

You can listen to Queer For Cities loud and queer wherever you get your podcasts and on WICN 90.5 FM, Worcester’s only NPR affiliate station. Tune in on Wednesdays at 6 PM and Sundays at 11 PM and find us at QueerForCities.com. Queer For Cities is created and hosted by Joshua Croke. Our Assistant Producer is Jack Tripp. Our Audio Engineer & Music Producer is Giuliano D’Orazio.

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Creative Reaction Lab

Facing History and Ourselves

Nipmuc Nation

The Trans Community of New England / First Event

Taj Smith  / Rooted Respite

Love Your Labels

Tamiko Beyer

Massachusetts Transgender Political Coalition

Queer For Cities is about life at the intersections and designing equity-centered, liberated communities where LGBTQ+ folx thrive. Follow us @QueerForCities and QueerForCities.com. Hosted by Joshua Croke. #QueerForCities

Transcript

Taj Smith: 0:00

The questions that you have right now about your life

MG Xiong: 0:04

matter. I've always felt, like, where there is no hope or vision of the future, it is incumbent upon us to invent it, and to invent that future.

Joshua Croke: 0:18

Hello, hello, hello! This is Queer for Cities very first episode, and I am so excited to be finally sharing this project with the world. I'm Joshua Kroak, I'm the creator of this show, supported by Jack Tripp and Giuliana D'Orazio, and I will be your host. I'm a queer and non binary designer, artist, and facilitator working at the intersections of community justice, urban development, and creative placemaking with a passion for cultivating equitable and just communities. Shorthand, I'm a queer urbanist, and I'm out to make queer a joyful norm. Our thesis for this show is, when we build more queer inclusive cities We build better cities for everyone. The way that our cities are designed is intentional. But the impact of that design has caused a lot of unintended, and very intended, harm to people. And so often the design of cities excludes and doesn't center folks at the margins. BIPOC, 2SLGBTQIA disabled, elders, the list goes on. And a lot of us queer folk have a really challenging relationship with place, especially the places and spaces that we grew up in that weren't supportive of us. So many of us moved to the city nearby or a city far away. The city has been a place of relative refuge for many queer and trans folks throughout time, and that's part of why we're doing this show. Queer for Cities is a podcast and radio show about life at the intersections of identity and place, and designing equity centered, liberated communities where 2SLGBTQIA plus folks thrive. If you're listening to this and don't identify as queer or trans, I also hope you'll become a dedicated listener of our show. We need strong allies in this work, and if you're not sure if you're an ally or are curious to expand your field of vision around these issues, we'd love for you to stay here. I'm often going to say queer and trans instead of the longer acronym. I do that for a few reasons. One, as someone who talks about issues faced by the 2SLGBTQIA plus community all the time, it is a lot to repeat over and over again. Queer is a term that a lot of people, especially our youth, have reclaimed as a broader umbrella for many of the identities held under this rainbow of ours. It was the inspiration of young queer and trans youth that I work with that I reclaimed this word for myself, which was one that was used harmfully and derogatorily when I was a young person. And I know there are a lot of people that have harm histories associated with that term, so I want to be respectful and also follow the lead of our youth who are finding power in reclaiming terms that have been used against us. I say queer and trans specifically because of the critical centering we need to do in all justice work around trans lives. Because even in LGB plus spaces, trans and non binary folks are often diminished, erased, and not included. So our experiences and our challenges need to be front and center in all justice work. And for us non binary folks who have faced a non binary imposter syndrome, which I'm borrowing from a guest who we have on later this season, Lauren McNair, we are included under that trans umbrella. And all of our nuance and difference in how we hold this for ourselves is valid. I'm really excited to introduce you to our first guests, MG Xiong and Taj Smith in a minute, but this is our first episode, so I need to establish some driving values and other considerations on what this show hopes to be. I'm a facilitator, so I often work with groups to establish shared agreements and values that help guide our work together and help folks agree on how to hold space with each other most effectively, especially when navigating challenging conversations and disagreements. And because urban design, community and economic development, these other related terms and industries are often seen as gentrifying and aggressive. exclusionary practices, which is completely justified because that is often the case. Also a reason we are making this show. I want you to hear some things upfront that are driving beliefs of mine that influence how I am going to engage in this work and how we're going to create this space. With you on Queer for Cities. You'll hear me use the term intersectionality a lot. If you happen to be new to the term or have heard it, but haven't really absorbed it. It was coined by Kimberly Crenshaw in the nineties and added to the Merriam Webster dictionary with the definition, the complex cumulative way. In which the effects of multiple forms of discrimination, such as racism, sexism, and classism combine, overlap, or intersect, especially in the experiences of marginalized individuals or groups. So holding multiple marginalized identities like being queer and black and disabled, for example, has a compounding effect on how someone experiences the current state of our biased world. And I'm speaking from a US perspective specifically on this show. The author, feminist, and civil rights activist, Audrey Lorde, an incredible black lesbian woman, by the way, pointed out that we do not live single issue lives. When I speak on issues of equity, justice, and community, I often point out the importance of nuance, and a recognition that there are layers, and overlaps, and bleeds, and parallels in almost everything. And we need to strive to hold onto that. all of those things at once as we work together to build truly equitable solutions to our most pressing challenges. You can't talk about health equity without addressing the right to housing. For example, on equity, I place equity at the center of all of my work. It's a much more frequently heard term nowadays than in years past for many people. So folks hold various definitions and understandings of equity. So for our, um, I guess glossary of shared definitions. I want to put forward that equity is discussed as both an outcome or goal as well as an action. The creative reaction lab, which is based out of St. Louis, Missouri defines equity as an outcome saying when outcomes are not predictable based on someone's identities or characteristics, for example, race, sexual orientation, gender identity, ability, et cetera. Facing History and Ourselves, which is an organization using lessons of history to challenge teachers and their students to stand up to bigotry and hate, defines equity in action, saying equity examines and adjusts structures, processes, and norms that distribute power and resources across a community to allow and encourage each individual to develop fully. A community committed to equity is one whose members continuously examine the role that power plays. Privilege and positionality play both in either maintaining or mitigating historical and present day inequities. We're going to talk about and share examples of equity centered work in this show. So if you're like, um, don't worry, this is a reason we're here. And if you're listening and are like, yep, this is my jam, I'm deeply involved in this work. We're going deeper too. Queer for Cities is produced in Worcester, Massachusetts, which is the ancestral lands of the Nipmuc people. The Nipmuc Nation is still on this land. Their constitution was ratified by the citizens of Nipmuc Nation in 2003, and their mission is to preserve and promote the culture, language, and values of the Nipmuc people while striving to improve the quality of life for all their citizens. I think it's important to make a land acknowledgment and recognize. The legacy of harm and how colonialism has shaped the spaces and the places that we exist in and acknowledging that we are unceded ground is critical in moving and advancing towards a more equitable, just, and liberated future. Our discussions will also touch on other New England cities, um, so I want to uplift the unceded lands of the Agawam, Poconoque, and Pueblo. Mohican, Wampanoag, Mohegan, Nonotuck, Pecumtuck, Pentucket, Penacook, Wabanaki, Abenaki, Narragansett, Pequot, and other indigenous peoples. I also want to name and recognize the erasure of and misinformation around indigenous peoples and the land history that uh, I received during my education in Central Massachusetts, and I am committed to continually re educating myself and highlighting Indigenous perspectives on our show as we discuss urbanism, displacement, and more, particularly from two spirit and queer Indigenous people. On Queer for Cities, we focus on the American context of urban development and community justice, and how queer and trans folks have and are navigating these spaces. Every day, our lives are touched by the pervasive legacy of colonialism. So I want to also acknowledge the forced labor that built the wealth and infrastructure of this country. Black people built America. Full stop. We need to look at the brutal history of slavery and its modern manifestations to understand where we are today, especially when we're talking about city building and community growth. So I want to make that land and labor acknowledgement as a foundation for how we're going to move into conversations about urban design, development, community. I also want to share a definition of how I define community, because that can be a bit of an amorphous term. So I've defined community as people connected by common purpose, passion, place, or culture. Communities are intersectional, diverse entities that evolve and change. You are in community with the neighborhood that you exist in. Maybe even if you don't see or know your neighbors, you are in community with other queer and trans people. You are in community with people that, um, love the sport that you are passionate about. So community is something that we are involved in in many different manifestations of and intersections of. Okay. Okay. I promise we are going to get into our episode. And by episode, I mean to our amazing guests, I have a penchant for going pretty deep anytime I'm like meeting a new group of people or building a space for nuanced and layered discussions. And this is very much a new space and I hope you will continue to embark on this journey with me. I hope this wasn't too long of a stage setting foundation building piece of our first episode. In our debut season of Queer for Cities, very exciting, we are exploring what makes a city not just livable, but a truly affirming and joyful place for queer and trans folks. We're diving into the heart of queer urban life, from community health, to the club, and everything in between. We're bringing together voices from across the spectrum, from queer artists and agitators to architects, urban planners, and activists, to share their stories, challenges, and triumphs in creating inclusive spaces and equitable cities. I firmly believe that when we build a queer inclusive cities, we build better cities for everyone. My mission and my charge to all of you listeners is to make queer a joyful norm. And when I say norm, I mean the imagined reality that we can exist as the truest version of ourselves safely. We'll always keep it weird and different, and that's what I want normal to mean. That we transform to embrace diversity and difference as the norm. Now we're done. Let's dive in. You're listening to queer for cities, wherever you get your podcasts and on WIC and 90. 5 FM Worcester's only NPR affiliate station tune in on Wednesdays at 6 PM and Sundays at 11 PM and find us at queer for cities. com.

MG Xiong: 12:19

I'm MG Xiong, I use they, them, theirs pronouns, and I'm Hmong, transmasculine, and nonbinary. I'm originally from Anchorage, Alaska, actually, and I now live in Medford with my sweet baby cat Meatball. Many folks that I meet with, um, This is, I'm the first trans person I'm meeting. This is their first exposure to really talking about gender as an expansive experience.

Joshua Croke: 12:44

It still surprises me that in 2024, I continue to meet people who feel they have never met a trans person. But this is the power of erasure folks, and we're talking about all the censorship. book banning an effort to erase queer and trans folks later in the season, for sure. But MG raises a question that we've had to consider for generations in efforts to build more accepting and inclusive spaces for us.

MG Xiong: 13:09

How do I introduce people to? Trans experience in a way that is meaningful and also accessible.

Joshua Croke: 13:16

We're going to hear more from MG in a bit, but our other guest today, Taj Smith, illuminates this further.

Taj Smith: 13:23

70 percent of Americans say that they've never met a trans person, and I'm like, well, if you're a part of that 70%, hi, hello, my name is Taj.

Joshua Croke: 13:30

I met Taj and MG at First Event in January 2024, which is actually where we recorded these interviews. First Event is hosted by Trans Community of New England, also known as TCNE, and is one of the longest running conferences in the U. S. for trans and gender expansive people.

Taj Smith: 13:47

I am a black transgender man, originally from California, around the Bay Area. My background is in ministry and trans theology, queer theology, and figuring out what queer futures look like in religious spaces, and have since broadened that work to figure out what queer futures look like in general.

Joshua Croke: 14:10

As a black transgender Christian, Taj's work explores faith, spirituality, liberation, and queer theology and intersectional politics. He holds a master's of divinity from Harvard Divinity School and has a creative passion for music and literature, particularly science fiction.

Taj Smith: 14:27

I came into this religious awakening and also came into my gender identity at the same time and realized that, like, the call that I felt, the pull that I felt wasn't necessarily towards activism, though that's a huge part of it, it's also towards nurturing and just caring for the spirits of people who are trying to change the world and make it a more equitable place, make it a place where people have access to what they need to survive and what they need to thrive.

Joshua Croke: 15:01

I asked Taj about his experience with place and how that helped or hurt his journey to stepping more fully into his authentic self.

Taj Smith: 15:10

Place has been crucial to all of it. I think being the person that I was, where I grew up. Like, I grew up in Vacaville, California. It's the midpoint between San Francisco and Sacramento. And it is Everyone thinks of California as this, like, blue block. But, you know, the further inland you go, the more conservative it gets. And being there with my mom, who was a single mom, and being one of the few, like, Black families that we knew of, and, you know, hearing my mom, like, talk about. Like black power and like being part of some of the more like radical or at least holding some of the more radical ideologies that were like around the bay area at the time that she was growing up. It kind of positioned me in opposition to so many of the people that I was with and so like I kind of formed this identity based on what I was not. And when I got to college and really started to meet other like queer and trans folks and felt like I had some, some place, like some sort of like grounding, some place where I belonged, I started to think about like, okay, well, what does it mean to actually belong to something?

Joshua Croke: 16:29

I'm sure this question is not foreign to so many of us, queer, trans, and not even identifying as queer and trans, is like, what does belonging feel like? We know, I think, what that feeling doesn't feel like, or when we don't feel like we belong, you can kind of feel that crawling sensation in your body, or you start to close yourself off, or are more hyper. aware of your environment and your surroundings because of some fear that something may happen. We're going to explore this more about how place is shaped and built to sometimes intentionally make folks feel that way. And I really want to explore what does belonging feel like in a city and in a community? What makes you feel like you've stepped into a place that you are going to be welcome? What does the environment look like? Who's there? How is it designed? What drew you in and brought you into that? I think You know, I'm reflecting on the feelings of not feeling belonging at home. Growing up necessarily and not, not feeling safe on the street or in public, um, as visibly queer folks and really looking at how do we navigate to understanding of what feels good for us. And Taj talked a little bit about this in our interview.

Taj Smith: 18:01

I live in a house up in Lawrence now, and I know some of my neighbors. I don't know all of them. I don't know how my neighbors feel about queer and trans people. I haven't asked, and that's not polite, quote unquote, polite conversation, you know? So, I feel like there's just so much disconnect in the way that we live now, and a lot of these places where It seems like there aren't any resources. I feel like people just need more connection. And to know that, like, people themselves are a resource. And, like, the way that people, the ways that people live, people's lives are a resource, especially to younger folks who are coming out. Like, I think about, like, like myself being, uh, a 37 trans elder in a lot of ways and how Strange that feels for me because I you know want to think that I'm still like, you know young and spry but at the same time like Knowing that there are kids who see me and they go wow a real trans adult Like yeah Hello And how if they just had that connection to somebody in their community, or somebody that's more accessible to where they are right now, they wouldn't feel so lonely.

Joshua Croke: 19:26

There's a few things that I want to unpack in what Taj just said there. The quote unquote polite conversation resonated so deeply with me because of how I have felt in my own journey that being too queer, whatever that means, Is in some way, making other people uncomfortable so that I should minimize and make smaller myself in order to make sure that I don't have a negative interaction with someone that I might see in the stairwell as I walk up. I live in a three decker in Worcester and you know, I don't know, similar to Taj, how my neighbors feel about queer and trans people. microaggressions or the interactions that we have with people that can sometimes feel like, huh, like I'm getting a weird vibe or a weird read from this person. And I'm not a hundred percent sure what it is. And I definitely cannot write off that it's homophobia or transphobia. We're going to talk a little bit more with Taj about having difficult conversations. Mainly with folks in our families who may not be supportive of our identities, of, uh, queer and trans kids. We know a lot of parents navigate the challenges of wanting to be supportive of their queer and trans young people, and they have to fight. against family. Maybe it's their parents. Maybe it's their siblings who are not showing up in ways that are supportive and are actually contributing to the harm of these young people getting access to the resources and support that they need. And I want to uplift a quote that always comes to mind when I'm in sitting in conversations with folks, um, who may be in disagreement with the Queer trans conversation, as it were. James Baldwin, a queer black man, author, brilliant mind, has a quote that we can disagree and still love each other as long as our disagreement is not rooted in my oppression or right to exist. Loneliness is a core feeling that's connected to depression, anxiety, substance abuse, It can be a catalyst for so much harm and pain and so many queer and trans folks. Especially youth disproportionately face depression, anxiety, et cetera, because of an exclusion or a lack of acceptance of who they are and who they are becoming and the environments that they are raised in. We'll talk later in the season about that. Really inspecting this concept of the nuclear family and how there are so many cultures and folks that approach family in a very different way. Not so much connected to blood and biology, but to we are here and we share space together in community and this community is family and we stand up for fight for support and embrace and love each other. And that is something that. Is I will say by and large lacking in a lot of the communities in the cities that people live in. And one of our arguments here on queer for cities is that that is by design separation and segregation is a tool that has been used to separate people based on on race, based on the fact that queer and trans folks have to escape to the nearby city to find some semblance of safety if we're thrown out of our homes or simply need to escape violence. And so as we talk about quote unquote, polite conversation, we need to recognize that Our ability to exist freely and openly as ourselves should not be something that we weigh against our safety. I run a queer and trans youth centered non profit organization called Love Your Labels that's based in central Massachusetts and here in Worcester. And we are driven by a statistic that came out of the Trevor Project. That just one person Affirming adult in the life of a queer and trans young person reduces their likelihood of attempting suicide by over 40%. That's just one person saying, I love you. I see you. You are valuable. You are worthy. You are incredible and unique and brilliant just as you are. That statement in and of itself is life saving. And so I asked Taj what he would share with any young people who might be listening to this show right now.

Taj Smith: 24:33

The questions that you have right now about your life matter, and that regardless of what anybody else tells you, like, you should explore them. And that you're not alone. There are other people in the world who are like you, and we are fighting for you, so that you can grow up.

Joshua Croke: 24:52

As Queer for Cities is about creating inclusive and loving community, the first place that often starts is at home. Many of us queer and trans folks have come from environments that are not supportive of our sexuality and gender identities. Taj's talk at first event was called When Religion Divides, and it was about having hard conversations, especially with folks in our lives who may be against queer and trans lives because of quote unquote. religious values. It was particularly geared towards parents who are supportive of their queer and trans kids, but have people in the family that are not. If you're like, whoa, now we're jumping right into religion in episode one, buckle up, baby. So I grew up conservative Baptist. I went to church multiple times a week. In addition to going to a private Baptist church school in Palmer, Massachusetts. That environment was not only incredibly successful at sheltering me from diverse perspectives, identities, cultures, but it also created an environment where even without having to say the thing out loud, I knew that being gay wasn't for me. was wrong. And I didn't even have the words to articulate what feeling like I was different and having different attraction or feeling differently in my body. I didn't even know how to articulate those things. And even if I did, I wouldn't know who I would have gone to to talk about them. I don't consider myself a religious person anymore, but I know many queer and trans folks in my life that have found affirming religious spaces that embrace and accept them, and we know that inclusion and affirmation of queer and trans folks at church Isn't it given, and I want to be clear that this is not going to be anti religious. It's actually quite the opposite, especially given Taj's placement in his work as a faith driven practitioner. I've found it can be easier to have conversations with people who are anti LGBTQ plus when their issue is raised. with it really comes from a social and media narrative. That's like, it's wrong. And that comes, goes back to a legacy of just not including queer and trans people, families in media and in the stories that we hear in the history books that we read and we will get there. But it's easier to have conversations with folks coming from that social perspective, as opposed to the argument My God says this is wrong. So Taj's talk presented a guide for holding space for these conversations as well as when to disengage, which is super valid, super critical. If you are listening to this and you are a young person or you are someone like me, Many of us who are navigating difficult relationships with family that you're really trying to hold on to, but it just continues to beat you down, disengaging and disconnecting is a hundred percent okay. You are not responsible for the harm that people are causing to you, even when you love them. And it's rooted in that care for and desire to hold loving relationship with people from your life. That is driving you into those conversations. If you're like, I've been doing it for years and I always leave those conversations feeling devastated, sad, angry, frustrated, if it's helpful, I'm giving you permission to leave those conversations and separate from those relationships for the time that you need to heal. Because I've had to do that in my life. So Taj said that starting from common ground, communicating that shared love for your child and concerns for their safety can begin to form a stable foundation for some of these conversations.

Taj Smith: 28:48

It is always just like talking to them, talking to them multiple times, and to, and starting, just to get them to start to question why they hold the belief, especially when they see that like, You know, like, queer and trans folks, we're not out here to hurt anybody. Like, we're, like I said, we just want to live our lives in a way that feels good to us. And, I think the more that people realize that, the more that they see, like, oh, Oh, this isn't a threat to my life. Like, and they can start to deconstruct those ideas and start to replace them with at least at the bare minimum, very, very bare minimum tolerance. And then from there, once we work, once we work on tolerance, I'm like, okay, let's get to acceptance and then let's get to just full on advocacy.

Joshua Croke: 29:47

Taj shared that it takes about seven conversations to change someone's mind, and that it's important to set a goal beforehand when going into these conversations. What might advance the longer term goal of building an affirming and loving advocate who isn't there yet? Part of why I'm starting episode one with this conversation is to encourage and remind us that That any type of change work takes time, it takes conversation, and it takes relationship building that is sometimes messy, complicated, challenging, difficult, and doesn't always lead to the outcomes that we want when we want them. We also need queer and trans issues to be brought front and center way more, and oftentimes it's us queer and trans folks who have to do that uplifting. So if you're an ally that's listening to this and this conversation and the other things that we talk about on this show resonate with you, I would encourage you to listen to this and welcome you to bring these things up in the spaces that you sit in. Think about how do we leverage our privilege and our positionality to talk about these intersectional issues. And again, this is intersectional justice work. We cannot talk about truly creating space and truly creating equity for BIPOC folks, for disabled folks, for other folks who experience marginalization. out also centering LGBTQ plus identity because we exist in every single other group that also exists. So I've sat in racial equity centered spaces that have been explicitly exclusionary of queer and trans conversations. And That is not furthering the work towards true justice and liberation, because there are folks that hold those multiple identities that are being left behind, and they are the people that are experiencing the most disproportionate violence and oppression in our cities.

Taj Smith: 32:00

I'm not out here with like some hidden agenda. I want to create conditions in which everybody can live the ways that feel right. Authentic and good for them.

Joshua Croke: 32:11

Same, Taj. Literally same. If you get to that place where you need to protect your energy, you know the conversation isn't going anywhere, or you just don't have the time or space for it, Taj was actually willing to share his disengagement statement with me, which I get to pass on to all of you, which he encourages folks to write down and have with them for these types of conversations. And you can model yours after Taj's, or create one that feels authentic and good for you.

Taj Smith: 32:40

I hear your question and instead of answering it, I'm going to invite you to reflect on whatever is motivating you to ask it. The far right is using specific tactics to stir up hatred and fear of transgender people. Questions coming from this line of thinking are not rooted in genuine curiosity about my trans experience and I will not engage them. I am one trans person and cannot speak for all trans people. I am willing to answer questions related to my experience of the world as a black trans man. This is to protect my mental health and well being as I continue to do this work. If you have questions about specific issues, I hope some of the cis allies in the room can work with you to expand your perspective.

Joshua Croke: 33:20

As mentioned earlier, religion is often a really challenging and sticky part of having conversations about queer and trans identity. I want to reiterate that this show is not anti religion, and we uplift and value the voices of people who hold diverse belief structures. Within pretty much every religion, you can find anti LGBTQ plus positions, as well as affirming LGBTQ plus positions. I will say that I absolutely have feelings about people using religion to marginalize oppressive harm, and we know from many studies that one, affirming someone's queer or trans identity reduces their likelihood of attempting suicide and leads to more positive health outcomes, and two, Two, that anti LGBTQ plus policies and positions lead to increased hate crimes and violence against queer and trans people. And three, that suppression of one's identities disproportionately increases one's likelihood of depression, anxiety, and substance use. So, I could go on, but I will let folks fill in the blank there for now. I asked Taj, how do you reconcile the diverse practices and denominations within Christianity, especially considering the harm caused by many of these groups?

Taj Smith: 34:33

That's something that I really, really struggle with. I graduated Divinity School in 2016, and since then, I've just kind of been exploring the space outside of ministry, and like, really thinking about what queer, spirituality means. Because it's not necessarily beholden to one tradition, and it doesn't have to be. It shouldn't be. That's part of what makes it queer. It's like subverting these pieces that have been so institutionalized and so held up as the way to live. When, really, when people are given the freedom to explore and to ask those questions, they're, they come more into themselves. And, like, that is something beautiful, and that is something that I think of as sacred. And, like, that journey doesn't necessarily need to happen, like, with a specific tradition. It just has to happen with supportive people who will encourage you to ask those questions.

Joshua Croke: 35:32

What would it look like if we, all of us, accepted each person's individual journey as a sacred act? That stepping more fully into our authenticity is part of revealing our truest nature, one that is connected to the diverse and infinite world we live in. As a queer person who has had a lot, I mean, a lot of conversations with people who do not think it's right to be queer, that it's a sin, etc. My family, the family of the youth I work with at Love Your Label, strangers that I meet at bars that just have to comment on my appearance, etc, etc, etc. I've heard the argument of, quote, well, you can't just be supportive of people all the time. Sometimes they need guidance, especially when it's your kids. You're not going to be supportive of someone using drugs, struggling with addiction. And I don't think being gay is what's best for them. Listen, I, I cannot with this argument. This is where I'm like, check the facts, girl. One hand is holding the like measurable harm substance abuse has in the life of a person, often with root causes of past traumas and abuse. And the other hand is holding like, I like to kiss boys. It makes me smile and feel joy. The other one that gets me is, if my child committed murder, I wouldn't support that, but I would still love them. Like, literally, you're killing me with this argument. Comparing two things, one that causes measurable harm, rooted in violence against another person, and the other being something you only feel is wrong, but causes no measurable harm, and only, in fact, and yes, truly factual, improves the well being and life outcomes of a person. Dismounting that soapbox for right now. So, how do we imagine trans futures and religion as we continue to grow as a humanity?

Taj Smith: 37:21

I'm also a big sci fi nerd. There is so much that is queer and sacred in science fiction. And the ways that science fiction deals with religion, especially, is really like Fascinating how like different planets have different religions, different peoples coming from different places, how like when like people on earth go into space and how they like those religions get influenced by the the practices and rituals and traditions of the other planets and other peoples.

Joshua Croke: 37:53

As you get to know me, you'll inevitably learn that I love sci fi and I'm also a huge nerd. I have started talking about, because I've been going back lately as I've been asked to do more public speaking and sit on panels talking about the intersection of identity and community and justice work, etc. Often folks, knowing my history of being raised in an extremely sheltered and conservative community religious environment that was very anti LGBTQ I've gotten the question, like, so how did you get out? Or how did you get to the place that you are now? And it's funny, I, as I've been racking my brain, there are obviously many different factors that contributed to that growth and that ability to step more fully in a direction Empowered me to show up more authentically as myself and there are so many people in my life that have had Impact along that journey and when I look as far back as I can go Something that I loved when I was a kid That we got to watch was Star Trek, and I think it was seen as this fun sci-fi. You know, it's not real. It's space and lasers and aliens and things. When you root yourself into what shapes the story of Star Trek, it is a. Unified Earth that is out exploring the galaxy with the goal of seeking out new life and new civilizations and better understanding the science that makes the world work. And I think I began to internalize those things at a very young age and there began to be dissonance. And Between what I was being taught in school and what I was being told about what just is or should be or what's right and what's wrong and what boys do and what girls do. And there became this like dissonant wave around my life at In my early teens that I was like, wait a second, I'm being told that we're supposed to be rooted in love and community and accept people and build relationship with them. And on the other hand, I'm seeing action and harmful protesting of things like gay marriage. And I didn't understand that and where it came from. And it seemed to actually contradict so much of what I was taught were the teachings of Christ. And, you know, as growing up someone within a Christian faith. And so I really have so much appreciation for science fiction and how it challenges us to think differently. Adrian Marie Brown, who you will hear me bring up probably a million more times, says that science fiction is the way we practice the future together. And I think that that is such a powerful argument for why sci fi is change work. And so I asked Taj, where does religion fit into an inclusive and loving future?

Taj Smith: 41:18

So I think there is a place for religion and I know it's not going to look like what it does right now. Even the religion we have today doesn't look like what it was a hundred years ago. It's ever changing. It's ever evolving. And. I think that there are, there is a lot of richness within those traditions and for a lot of people they hold some very important lineages. They link them back to their, the roots, culture, really helps people ground themselves into that familial history in a way. But it might be that that is really where its place is in the future and growing out of that people start to just assemble, what. feels sacred to them.

Joshua Croke: 42:06

So I'd love to ask what feels sacred to you. I'd love if you let me know, I want this show to be a dialogue with you, our listeners. So I'm introducing this segment, which I'm going to call feedback loop as well as listener spotlights. And so feedback loop is going to revisit conversations like this one with Taj when listeners like you hear it and then Want to share your thoughts, perspectives, experiences, um, voice memos are awesome, um, because we can share them on the show, but feel free to send us a note if that's better for you. So you can email me directly at josh at queer for cities. com. And I'd love to hear your thoughts, opinions, um, things that you want to hear more about, uh, or things that resonated you with you specifically, um, so that we can continue to come back to these conversations and hold space, um, for, for growth and deepening. We will be right back. Oh, uh, we're also going to be featuring queer and trans poets and spoken word artists on queer for cities. So that's coming up too. Love Your Labels is a non profit that supports queer and trans youth through art, fashion, and design based programs that explore gender, identity, and expression, and works to connect youth to creative opportunities that align with their passions that lead to positive life outcomes and fulfilling careers. Love Your Labels also works with families and communities to create inclusive and loving spaces everywhere. Through programs like Drag Story Time and Queer AF, an art and fashion show celebrating the unique beauty of every person. Queer AF returns to Mechanics Hall in Worcester on Friday, September 6th, and you can learn more at loveyourlabels. org. Poetry and spoken word have a legacy of pushing us toward a better world. In our pursuit of building more inclusive cities where queer and trans folks thrive, we want to uplift and amplify the voices of creatives who are engaged in change work through their practice of shaping words and creating works that make us think and feel, that activate us to engage in our communities more, and that encourage us to step more fully into ourselves. Our first poet featured today is Tamako Byer. Tamako introduces herself a bit before the poem she's chosen to share with us. So, I'll read a quote from Diana Whitney, writing for Electric Lit in the article, Seven Queer Poetry Books I Wish I Could Give to My Teenage Self, talking about Tamako. The quote is, Her courageous new collection is a radical act of world building through poetry, a book of queer defiance that embodies hope.

Tamiko Beyer: 45:00

My name is Tamiko Beyer, and I am a poet and a writer, and my books include We Come Elemental and Last Days. And also, a book that I co edited with Destiny Hemphill and Lizbeth White called Poetria Spellcasting, Poems, Essays, and Prompts for Manifesting Liberation and Reclaiming Power. And I chose a poem today! That I wrote a few years ago after a very, very wet season. I thought of it because I'm sitting here in Boston after an incredibly, well, in the middle of, I guess, an incredibly wet spring. Where there's just been so many days of so much rain. So it made me think of this poem. And in this poem, I was really thinking about how insistent life is, even as we are going through this incredible change in our world because of the climate crisis. And how, as I observe people and plants and animals and insects, how, despite this disruptions and changes in the weather and the seasons, how, how insistent we all are, I think, in living and surviving. And that gives me hope, it gives me hope that we will be able to find a way through to change how we are living and how we relate to each other and hold our elected officials accountable and do all the organizing that we need to do to create a different kind of world that values life and is in awe of life. And that's kind of where this poem comes from. So, it's called Churn. Sputter and flame in the midday gloom. Another summer downpour soaking this green door. I touch lit match to candle wick. Wettest July on this New England coast according to graph makers and record keepers. The ants have their own history of scrabble and sting, their own timelines of sediment scent and shallow bath of breath. They sing into the ground, sing into themselves, sing into their many bodied cults. What's the sound of the ants collective heartbeat? I don't pretend to know. Nor why they didn't attend to the peonies this second pandemic summer. No swarms of legs and mandibles collecting seeping sweet from pipe buds. No tiny bodies loosening the layer, all I could do was hope and wrap wire around the leaves, offer the flowers a place to rest their heavy heads if they blossomed in the churn. And yes, the petaled clouds did open on their own time, creating layered rooms of perfume to wander through. Then, the rain. Before the wreck of wind and water, I cut three stems for the altar and its silver blue cloth. The end. Place the vase in the center as ushering. This will not be the last time it will rain this hard, nor be this hot. Soon, we'll stop saying the hottest year, the wettest year. We will be the churn, setting the graphs on fire, marking the records with our collective breath, singing into the emergence of what comes next. Life in the mandibles, life in the root hairs, the ants, the rain, the peonies, certainly the milkweed who assert a new shoot every time I turn around, singing the same ongoing insistent song.

Joshua Croke: 49:07

To create a different kind of world that values life and is in awe of life. Tamika said this before reading her poem, and it's so resonant with what we're exploring in this first episode of Queer for Cities. In order to participate actively and sustainably in change work, we need to believe that a better future is possible, that a joyful and liberated city is possible, that a sustainable and thriving world is possible. I'm going to leave a dot dot dot here because we're going to come back next week with a part two of this opening episode. In part two, we're going to hear more from MG Xiong, the director of programs for the Massachusetts Transgender Political Coalition, or MTPC, where we'll talk about imagining trans futures, the resources we need to get there, And more hope you'll come back. You're listening to queer for cities. I'm your host, Joshua Croak, and I'm out to make queer a joyful norm. You can hear us loud and queer wherever you get your podcasts. And on WICN 90. 5 FM Worcester's only NPR affiliate station, Jack trip is our assistant producer. And Giuliano D'Orazio is our audio engineer and music producer. You can learn more about our show. Send us a voice memo and more at queerforcities. com. Hey folks, it's josh. Do you have challenges in your community that require collaborative and creative solutions? My team specializes in forming and facilitating collaborative partnerships and finding creative solutions to community challenges And i'd love to talk with you about working together I also am available to speak on topics of queer identity equitable community development and cultivating inclusive creative ecosystems You Send me an email at josh at queerforcities. com to find a time to explore possibilities together. Hey Queer for Cities fans! Did you know that we've got merch? We've got a growing list of options over at queerforcities. com slash store where you can rep merch from tees to totes that support the creation of queer media like our Queer for Cities podcast. What do you want to see in the store? Send us a DM on Instagram at queerforcities. See you in the streets!