Scooby Doo of Scotland: The Black Dinner of 1440

A royal feast inside Edinburgh Castle promised safety, friendship, and a reset between a child king and the heirs of Scotland’s most powerful clan. Instead, the Black Dinner of 1440 delivered a brutal omen, a midnight judgment, and two young Douglases beheaded under the crown’s roof—an unforgivable breach of hospitality that rippled across the realm.

We follow the power lines behind the spectacle: how the Black Douglases rose through land, war, and royal marriages to rival the throne; why Chancellor William Crichton and Sir Alexander Livingston formed a fragile alliance to stop a teenage earl; and how James Douglas of Avondale, the beneficiary in the shadows, turned catastrophe into control. The plot that aimed to decapitate a dynasty only sharpened it—until a king who had watched in silence as a boy decided to act.

Years later at Stirling Castle, James II invited the eighth Earl of Douglas to talk peace. What began as reconciliation ended with a dagger, a poleaxe, and a body on the floor. The king’s strike ignited civil war, crushed the Black Douglas network at Erkinholm, and brought their estates into royal hands. Along the way we unpack the symbolism of the black bull’s head, the sacred logic of medieval hospitality, and how broken oaths reshaped Scottish politics.

If you love gripping medieval history, clan rivalries, and the hard choices behind state power, this story has it all: betrayal at table, a child monarch forged by trauma, and a final reckoning that redrew Scotland’s map. Listen now, subscribe for more deep-cut history, and tell us—was the crown saving the kingdom or staining it forever? Rate and review to help more curious minds find the show.

Transcript

Welcome & Winter Olympics Banter

SPEAKER_04 0:15

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:19

I am well. How are you?

SPEAKER_04 0:22

It's Abbott. Oh hey there.

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Oh hey there. I'm Kate. And I'm Bradley.

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And this is History Buffoons.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Welcome to History Buffoons.

SPEAKER_04 0:37

Yeah. So today we're gonna talk about the Black Dinner of 1440.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Black Dinner of 1440.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

It was a friendly meal between King James II of Scotland and the young heirs of the really powerful Douglas family.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

And it turned into a cold and calculated act of betrayal.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Oh dear, hence the blackness. Yes, the blackness. All right.

SPEAKER_04 1:04

Yeah.

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How are you doing today? I'm well. How are you?

SPEAKER_04 1:07

I'm doing good.

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Excellent. It's uh Olympics time.

SPEAKER_04 1:12

Oh, so much fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

I I rather enjoy the Winter Olympics.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

So I wish they weren't on like opposite schedules because, you know, I work during the day.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Yeah. But I mean, they'll they'll replay a lot of stuff if you want to actually, you know, watch it and whatever. But yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27

Yeah. What's one of your favorites?

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Uh Winter Olympics-wise, I man, it's hard to pinpoint one, but I I really like like skiing, like high jump and the high jump, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

Or is that the high jump or like the acrobatic jumps?

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Whatever they're called. Is high jump the right thing to call it?

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I feel like no, because isn't that track and field? Yeah.

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So it's like the one where they jump really high on skis.

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We're super educated in this.

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I'm really not, but you know. I enjoy watching the Winter Olympics. It's fun.

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Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

So, anyways, what's for asking me what I like. What do you like? I'm just following your style. You never asked me. Oh.

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Um, I like the figure skating.

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Yeah.

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Watch the couple's figure skating, which I've never I don't think I've ever seen that before. I usually just see like a one-off person.

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A one-off person? You mean the individual? Yeah. The one-off person.

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The individual.

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Hey, when is the one-off person skating? What?

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Yeah. Um, but I like the acrobatic jumping skiing thing as well.

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Or snowboarding when you see those guys do that. I mean, similar, but yeah, no, it's pretty cool. Pretty amazing. They're pretty fantastic athletes.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

So what are you uh drinking today?

SPEAKER_02 2:47

I am having a one-off cocktail.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

I have a one-off cocktail too.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

So I have uh some bullet bourbon and some good old-fashioned montoo.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

Not to be confused with actual old fashions.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

No. Touche. Yeah. What do you got?

SPEAKER_04 3:05

Um I have, well, there was a random Dr. Pepper Zero in my fridge, so I took advantage of that. And I've got um some crown apple.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Well, cheers.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

Cheers. And then we have some beers because we didn't want a lot of cocktails.

Setting The Stage: Scotland In Turmoil

SPEAKER_02 3:22

No, we just wanted a cocktail. So anyways, that was delicious. Yes. All right, let's get into this.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

Okay, so in late uh November of 1440, there was a big fancy banquet that was held inside the stone walls of Edinburgh Castle.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:40

Okay. And at the head of the table was King James II of Scotland, who was just 10 years old.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Uh, baby king.

SPEAKER_04 3:49

Yeah, child king. And of course, he was surrounded by his adult advisers and other noble guests.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yep, yep, yep.

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And among those guests were two members of Scotland's most powerful family.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

The Douglas family.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

The Douglas family.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:04

We have William Douglas, who is the sixth Earl of Douglas.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:09

Um, who he was about 16 years old, and then his younger brother David, um, who was around 12, give or take a year.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

So on the surface, it looked to be like a happy formal occasion. Um, the king was really excited that there were people like more his age.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Right.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

Um, that came around, so he was really happy. Um, and it was there was a royal feast meant to bring the king and the heirs together in the Douglas heirs together in friendship. Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Hey, Oliver.

SPEAKER_04 4:41

So Scotland hadn't exactly been a call and place leading up to this dinner.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:46

About three years earlier, in February of 1437, King James the First of Scotland had been assassinated by a group of conspirators trying to grab power for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

And his murder threw the whole kingdom into chaos. So the crown passed to his only living son, James II, who was just six years old at the time. And in medi medieval Scotland, a child on the throne pretty much guaranteed one thing: rival no nobles fighting tooth and nail to run the country in his name.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yeah, right. With him as their leader, but we know who's leading it. Exactly. For sure.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

So at first, Queen Joan, who was James the Second's mother and an English born princess, tried to step in and act as regent to protect her son.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:35

Um, she even went so far as to avenge her husband's death by tracking down his killers and making sure that they were executed. Like badass woman.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Um, good on her for uh avenging her husband's death. Jesus, okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

Yeah. But of course, Scotland didn't want an English born woman ruling Scotland.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Right, which I get.

SPEAKER_04 6:01

So before long, her authority kind of faded, and other powerful men moved in to take control of the young king instead.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:11

Bubbles. Burping, sorry. Bubbles. My bad. It's all right. So the most important of these men was Archibald Douglas.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Archibald.

SPEAKER_04 6:21

He was the fifth Earl of Douglas. Okay. And head of the famous Douglas family. Right. Archibald wasn't just another noble, he was very powerful in Scotland.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So did you come across why the Douglas family was so prevalent?

SPEAKER_04 6:37

Yes. Okay. Yes, I will get into that very quickly, actually.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

So um Archibald Douglas also happened to be the cousin of the young king.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Yes. And after James II, he would be next in line.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Oh, sure, yeah. Because, well, obviously the kid wouldn't have an heir.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

And then they look for the next male.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

So he had massive lands, private armies, political influence. So Archibald became the lieutenant general of the realm, basically acting the acting regent while James was still a child.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

So under Archibald's leadership, the Douglas family's power only grew stronger. I would think, yeah. So by the 1400s, the Douglasses, especially um a senior branch of them called the Black Douglases, because they were just kind of brutal in their um armies and everything, um, they had become so abundant, nope, a dominant, that many people started to see them as a genuine threat to the stability of the kingdom.

Rise Of The Black Douglases

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Right. Cause I mean, they had such influence. Influence and backing and all that stuff. So I would I could see how that would be like, oh shit, these people could do some real damage really to get control, I guess we'll say it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:58

And they were the biggest landowners in Scotland and deeply woven into royal politics. How much land do you think they owned if they were so I think it was like a lot of like southern Scotland. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

So um the title of Earl of Douglas wasn't just important, it rivaled the power of the crown itself.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 8:20

But Archibald Douglas's time at the top didn't last long because on June 26th, 1439, about two years effectively running Scotland on the king's behalf, yeah, Archibald suddenly died supposedly from a fever. Uh-oh. And his death left like this huge power vacuum almost immediately, and the political infighting started started.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 8:43

So the control of the government shipped shifted to a group of competing guardians and advisors around the boy king.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

So how did you say how old Archibald was when he passed?

SPEAKER_04 8:54

Um, I didn't, and I don't think I saw.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Because I mean, I know things can socially back in the 1400s.

SPEAKER_04 9:00

Yeah, what I'm gonna guess is between um the 20s and fours, between 20 years old and 40 years old, like somewhere in there. Yeah, I mean because he does have two kids.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Right. So he wasn't probably too young, but he also probably wasn't too old.

SPEAKER_04 9:13

So I also have a beard that's open.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Yeah, we know. You said that. Oh, okay. Jeez.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

So one the the infighting, yeah, one group was um formed around Sir William Crichton, who was the Lord Chancellor of Scotland.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Oh, good old Lord Chancellor.

SPEAKER_04 9:32

Yeah, he was clever, ambitious, um, and he controlled Edinburgh Castle.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 9:39

And another faction centered on Sir Alexander Livingston of Callendar, the warden of Stirling Castle, Jesus, and the man who physically had custody of King James II at Sterling.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:54

So uh Queen Joan tried to stay relevant in all of this, but she was already losing ground. And in August of 1439, Livingston made a bold move against her and arrested her. On what grounds? And her new husband, Sir James Stewart, known as Black Knight of Lorne, and forced her to hand over custody of the king.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

That's yeah, that's that's a lot going on in the city. It's uneasy.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

I know. So the Queen was punished almost completely out of was pushed completely out of power.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Right.

SPEAKER_04 10:29

And Scotland then was effectively run by these par this weird partnership between Crichton and Living Livingston.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Okay, so they just didn't want her to have any influence on her son. Yes. So they wanted her to get the fuck out.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Especially because she was English first and foremost, and then okay, so they're just and she technically is Queen Regent. Oh correct, yeah. So I mean she doesn't really have much power, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

In the grand scheme of things, especially back then. But okay.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

So for a while, these two men were rivals. They were each suspicious of the other and jealous over who had more influence over the king.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

But they agreed on one thing.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Oh, what was that?

SPEAKER_04 11:12

The Douglas family was a massive problem.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Well, like you said earlier already, they they could they had a lot of influence, so they could certainly sway which way the shit would go.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

So, okay.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

And with Archibald Douglas's death, um, it had passed down the entire Douglas Empire, the land, the wealth, the armies to his teenage son, William Douglas.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

And that's one of the first ones you meant. He was the 16-year-old in the beginning, you said yes.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

And now William, who is just a teenager, found himself to be the head of the most powerful family in Scotland.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Which is funny to say he's the most powerful family in Scotland. And he's not even king.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

But I mean, makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 11:55

And to experienced political operators like Crichton and Livingston, a boy Earl of Douglas wasn't super comforting. He was a wild card.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Well, yeah.

Crichton, Livingston, And A Deadly Alliance

SPEAKER_04 12:05

Yeah. Someone who might grow up to be even, you know, a bigger threat to the crown than his father had been, they had no idea.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

So interesting. In their eyes, William Douglas wasn't just a noble teenager. He had the potential rival power who could challenge not only the authority of the king, but the authority of the men currently running the kingdom in the king's name.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

And it's just funny, like we've heard so many stories, and we've done a few ourselves.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

King James the Sixth of Scotland. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

But like how these people are are running it with the best interest of the king. But it's like it's not, it's never for their best interest. It's for the people who are putting their input into the king for their interest that they gain shit, whatever. So to say it's for the country and it's for the king is like go fuck yourself. You are totally being feeding a line of bullshit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:04

So so the house of Douglas didn't just pop up out of nowhere in the 1400s. They had been building power for generations. Sure. Because I mean it's not like I'm one family and all these things are happening.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Well, no, they obviously had many years to be uh a notable family, gain their power, their lands, and such, and whatever. So it's yeah, it's not like they popped up overnight and be like, hey man, did you hear about Douglas? No, who are they?

SPEAKER_04 13:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

They they've been around for a while. They have. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

Yeah. And um he so back in the wars that they were kind of dealing with, um, there was Sir James Douglas who went by James the Good.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

I think like after the fact, like he was called James the Good. It's usually usually this seems like those people get the names after the fact.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

Yeah, so he um so he becomes um the legendary black Douglas, and he's one of Robert the Bruce's closest companions.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Oh, Robert the Bruce, yes.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Known for being fearless in battle and basically a walking reputation, and that lots and lots of loyalty. Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:11

So the family gets land, they get influence, they get status, and that just kind of snowballs over time.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Well, yeah, because I mean, definitely have heard of him. Yeah, and I don't know much about him, but I've definitely heard of him. So yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:25

Yeah. So by the mid-1300s, the Douglasses split into different branches. One is the Black Douglases, which is the senior line, and then there's also the red Dug Red Douglases of Angus. And the key point is that senior black Douglas line holds the Earldom of Douglas and has the biggest share of power.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Oh, okay. So they're the main the main Douglass, if you will. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:51

Yes. So they also married well.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

I'm sure.

SPEAKER_04 14:55

So the Sega Earl of Douglas married into the royal Stuart family.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Right.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

Which means that Douglass didn't just have that influence, they also had blood ties to the throne.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Well, yeah, and obviously they're not dumb, they're gonna situate themselves with you know the best prospect they can. And adjacent to the crown instead of just being like, well, we're just some random family, we have also ties because we're married into your fucking family. Yeah, exactly. Even if they're cousins or whatever, it doesn't matter. Because back then, line of succession went, like you said, the cousin was the next in line if something happened to James II, right? Correct?

SPEAKER_04 15:33

Yes, yeah, the boy king.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:35

So by the 1430s, they're basically at the top of Scottish nobility. They control large stretches of southern Scotland, as I said. Yep. And they've got private armies, they have uh important castles, they're not just wealthy nobles, they're the kind of nobles where the crown has to like plant around them as well.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

No, they had they had power, and it wasn't just like bow to the king. It's like, no, bow to the fucking Douglases, too.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

So even chroniclers at the time make the point that they'd become so powerful it was a threat to stability.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

So after James I is killed, Archibald Douglas basically runs the show as regent. Right. So that alone is proof of how much the family could overshadow the crown when the crown was vulnerable. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 16:23

So when Archibald dies and his teenage son William inherits everything, it's not so hard to imagine what is happening at court and their mood and their their worry.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Right. And and did obviously the the the boy Douglas um inherits that because you know that's how it works. I'm sure he had other like uncles and and whatever and such that probably still were prevalent in the family, right?

SPEAKER_04 16:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Uh okay, so do we get into some of that?

SPEAKER_04 16:55

We get into one in particular. Awesome. Yes. Um, I I looked at the family line of the Douglasses, and there are either James's, Williams, or Archibalds. And just to find the flow. Oh my gosh, it's so confusing.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Well, because yeah, back then, I mean, it was it was how they named their their kids a lot. I mean, that's why there's so many James the Sixth and all that, whatever. It's just funny how they didn't venture off very far. Um, so I would imagine that and again, I'm sure you probably didn't come across as just a random question. Douglas still around today in Scotland, I would imagine. In some degree.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Would you like to say yeah one more time? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

So people are watching closely because now this enormous Douglas, Douglas, Douglas um machine has a 16-year-old at the steering wheel and he doesn't know how to drive.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Well, and plus they didn't even know what a steering wheel was.

SPEAKER_04 18:01

No. So some later right writers try to paint William as like this arrogant or meddling kind of a kid, but there's no solid evidence of that.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:12

He's young, he's new to the role, and he's probably still being guided by older relatives and advisors.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

So it's funny you say meddling kid. I just think of Scooby-Doo.

SPEAKER_04 18:23

Why?

SPEAKER_02 18:24

I would have got away with it too if it wasn't for you, meddling kids.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

What's that from?

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Scooby-Doo.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

Like the the cartoon show or like the oh yes, the especially the cartoon. Meddling kids.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 18:35

That's what they were kind of called.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Yeah, because they always were, you know.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

Meddling.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Meddling, yeah. So they got in the people's way. So, anyways.

SPEAKER_04 18:45

So he's like, the Scooby-Doo of Scotland.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Scooby-Doo of Scotland. Maybe. That's so great.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

Driving the mystery machine with that steering wheel he can't drive.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Operating the mystery carriage. He's trying to. Yes. 100%. Scooby-Doo of Scotland is our front runner for the title. That is fucking fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

Okay. So the idea of a teenage Earl of Douglas freaked quite a few people out. And because he had the name, the land, the loyalty, the money, the soldiers, all the ingredients to make a very powerful name, he didn't need to be a villain to be seen as dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Okay.

The Black Bull’s Head And Arrest

SPEAKER_04 19:41

Yes. So once William Douglas inherits, the men running things around the boy king start making some decisions.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

I bet.

SPEAKER_04 19:51

So we've got Sir William Creighton, who hates Sir Alexander Livingston. But they do agree on one thing. There's a bigger threat sitting in this room. I wrote, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Jesus Christ. Well, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:11

So in their eyes, the bigger threat is this Douglas family, especially a teenage Earl of Douglas who could grow into someone with impossible who's impossible to control.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

So Creighton and Livingston, they start canoodling.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

I mean, I don't think canoodling is the right word there.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Well, what's it called?

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Conspiring?

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Canoodling. Oh.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

Oh, c or they're in cahoots. I mean that too, but canoodling. Not bad.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

They're like, hey, that's canoodle. Okay, so canoodling. Well played.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

So they form an alliance and they're not alone.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Ooh, joints.

SPEAKER_04 21:00

Enter Williams' great uncle. Oh, so this is the James Douglas, because of course there's another James. He is the Earl of Avondale and his Arch and Archibald Douglass's brother.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Oh, okay. So he's very close, but just not you know didn't inherit.

SPEAKER_04 21:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

James Douglas, Jimmy Doug. All right.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

So he's positioned in a way that does matter. As a senior Douglas, he's next in line to inherit if something happens to his teenage great nephew.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Oh, I'm sure he's all about that.

SPEAKER_04 21:39

So Avondale well, Mr. James Douglas, I'll just say Avondale.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

He had a very, very strong motive, right? Well, yeah. So by linking up Crichton and Livingston, Avondale seems to throw his support behind any anti William camp, possibly because he expects that the Douglas Earldom could end. End up in his hands.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Well, yeah. And back then he didn't care about his nephew. He's like, I'd rather just have all the power and the money and the lands and whatever. He's like, I'll canoodle with you.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

So the frustrating part for historians is that the contemporary chronicles don't give you the neat, like, here's the secret meeting that everyone's planning. And things just started happening.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

So a lot of behind the scenes We don't know. Yeah, it's inferred.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Well, of course.

Summary Executions And Shock

SPEAKER_04 22:30

There's a couple things in this story, and I'll kind of point them out as I come to it, that are either like la and lavished. Enlavished?

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Embellished. Embellished? That's the word.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Embellished.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Oh my these words are golden. Canoodling and lavish.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

Unlavished.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Wow. So all right, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

Okay. So by later accounts, um, it makes it hard to ignore that these men um these men are acting in coordination, and that goal is to remove the young Earl of Douglas before he becomes too powerful to deal with.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:09

So William and David, the younger brother, aren't minor figures. They're very high ranking, right? Yes, yes. So going after them is very risky, and they could start a civil war.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Oh, no doubt. I mean, you're you're literally family members trying to oust other family members just for power. Yeah. I mean, it's uh like Beauty and the Beast, Tales of Old's Time.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

So um, it could trigger a massive retaliation and it breaks some major social rules of the time.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:44

Because if you harm noble use, especially under some kind of protected setting, it's going to be seen as treacherous.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

So whatever the plan has is, it has to be carefully staged.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

It needs a cover story, like a dinner. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Or a banquet of sorts.

SPEAKER_04 24:02

Ideally, something that looks legitimate, or at least like something that looks like it happened under royal authority.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

So this is where Crichton's advantage comes in. He's Chancellor and he controls Edinburgh Castle.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Right.

SPEAKER_04 24:16

So he comes up with a plan that looks like goodwill instead of an attack. Invite the Douglas boys to Edinburgh to visit the king.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

Make it sound like reconciliation, trust, friendship, unity.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

We're all friends here. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:31

Give them a reason to come in without raising alarms and without having an army nearby.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Right. Yes. So yeah, because you want to invite them, but like, hey, leave leave your army.

SPEAKER_04 24:42

Leave everybody behind.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Leave your army at home. They don't need to come. We're we're good.

SPEAKER_04 24:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 24:47

So once they're inside the castle on Crichton's turf under the crown's roof, everything is set up for the moment when the friendly visit stops.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Yes. Being friendly. Friendly. So do you have all who came to this with the Douglas? So it was obviously William and sorry, what was Doug? David? David.

Siege, Stalemate, And Political Fallout

SPEAKER_04 25:08

I think it was just a small number. I'm sure probably under 10.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

I'm sure it wasn't just, hey, two young kids.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

They can't drive. How are you going to get there?

SPEAKER_02 25:18

The horse remembers.

SPEAKER_04 25:21

No, they had they just had a really small amount of people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Okay. Yeah, they didn't want to canoodle with a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

So sometime in the late autumn of 1440, a message was sent out to 16-year-old William Douglas Douglas and his younger brother David.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

And they were formally invited to come to Edinburgh Castle to dine with King James the Second. Oh. And on the surface, it was perfectly normal gesture.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Do you think David's like, I hope they serve Duck?

SPEAKER_04 25:53

Probably.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

I mean.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

The king was a boy, the Douglas' brothers were boys, and bringing them together could be a nice show of unity.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

Do you think they brought their dolls with?

SPEAKER_04 26:04

I think train said.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

But yeah, they're all boys.

unknown 26:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:08

The invitation almost certainly came with promises of safety and royal goodwill.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Right. Of course.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

In medieval Scotland, sharing a meal under the king's roof was supposed to be one of the safest places you could be.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

One would think.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

And everything suggests that William and David accepted this on good faith. Sure. So they traveled to Edinburgh with a small group of attendants, including Sir Malcolm Fleming of Cumbernauld. Cumbernauld. He's a longtime ally and advisor to the Douglas family.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

There's even a chance that they spent a few days at the court um before the actual dinner, like getting comfortable meeting people.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

I mean, that was typical of the time because, like, obviously, travel's long.

SPEAKER_04 26:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Back then, because again, no cars, no, no mystery machine to drive them there. Right. And so they would have to get there. They settle into their their quarters and like blah, blah, blah. So yeah, they were probably there for at least a day or two prior to this.

SPEAKER_04 27:05

And one um account that I read said that the three boys would all play together for a little bit and like form this cute little friendship right away.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Cute little friendship. Oh dear. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

So there's um, so from from Crichton and Livingston's point of view, the whole point was to get the Douglas boys away from their own territory.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:31

Back on Douglas lands, William could call on hundreds of loyal men at a moment's notice inside Edinburgh Castle, surrounded by royal guards and official loyals to Crichton. He was very vulnerable. Sure. And the young king himself was essentially part of the plan, whether he knew it or not.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Well, he was he was their Patsy. Yeah, exactly. He might not have been a hundred percent in on it, but they used him to get the kids there and such and whatever. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

So miscuse.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

Later stories say that James II was genuinely happy to have these companions because they were his own age, and he welcomed the Douglas brothers um warmly. If William Douglas had any doubts, he seemed to have pushed them aside. Okay. Um the Douglasses had been at the center of Scottish politics for years. His own fat f uh father had effectively run the country.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:25

So why would he be betrayed at with the king? You know, like he had heard.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Yeah, he thought he was safe. Yeah. I mean, and it's very warranted why he would think that way.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

So and and back then in in Scotland, um, being invited over to for dinner and being in someone's house as a guest was considered very, very um the tradition of that was was honored. Like there there shouldn't be anything bad happening because the the hospitality was such a big deal in Scotland.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

Yeah. So on November 24th, the planned feast took place in the Great Hall of Edinburgh Castle. Okay. And everything went exactly as it should. There was food, there was drink, maybe there was music, maybe a little ceremony, we don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Maybe a little dancing.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Maybe a little dancing, we don't know. Somebody's getting high on mushrooms.

Avondale’s Ascent And Consolidation

SPEAKER_00 29:19

I don't know. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

We don't know. We don't know. What the f but why would you think that?

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Wow, you're making me cough. Excuse me. They're getting high on mushrooms, little psychedelic trip in the Scottish castles. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_04 29:40

So the hall would have been full of conversation and laughter, torches like on the stone walls, and goblets being refilled of warm wine and clanking together. And you know, it's you know, it's Silva as well. So what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Do I do do I know that?

SPEAKER_04 30:02

Or but later, writers like to emphasize how relaxed and happy the Douglas boys seemed that night. They were said to be enjoying themselves. I mean, why not?

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Well, yeah, they're having a grand old time.

SPEAKER_04 30:14

All the while Crichton and Livingston watch from the sidelines, waiting for their right moment. Guards loyal to them quietly took up their positions, ready to act as soon as they were needed. And then in the middle of the meal, dessert happened.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

They deserted?

SPEAKER_04 30:30

No, dessert.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Okay. Was it terrima sous that night?

SPEAKER_04 30:35

I mean, I will tell you.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Oh, you have you have you have it. Alright, let's do this.

SPEAKER_04 30:39

I do have the dessert. Do you really? I do. That's funny. So at some point during the banquet, uh, servants carried in a covered platter and placed it directly in front of young the young Earl of Douglas.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

When the lid was lifted, everyone saw the dessert. Which was the severed head of a black bull.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Oh. That doesn't sound like a delicious dessert at all.

SPEAKER_04 31:04

And it was dripping in blood.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Well, yeah, because it's severed.

SPEAKER_04 31:08

Scottish tradition says that that image carried a very clear meaning.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_04 31:16

A black bull's head was this symbol of death.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

So it's like they gave them a hint before they did the deed.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Like, hey, in case you didn't know, you're gonna die.

SPEAKER_04 31:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

I didn't know the black severed black bull head was uh Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

So the the black bull was one of those quote unquote facts that could have been embellished.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Oh, of course, because no one no one was really there. They probably wanted to glorify the story and make it a little more Scottish, you know tradition, tradition, lore omen, bad omen thing, whatever. Oh, let's throw the the black bullhead and or whatnot. Yeah. So I mean, yeah. P writers did that all the time back then because you had no fucking proof and no one to question you on it. Yeah. So, anyways.

SPEAKER_04 32:10

So in that moment, William and David Douglas finally realized the truth.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

They're like, oh snap.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

It's a trap.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

I love Admiral Ackbar.

SPEAKER_04 32:20

It's a trap. At a signal from the Chancellor, armed guards rushed forward and seized the two brothers right there at the table.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

The boys were dragged away just as the 10-year-old king watched in utter shock.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Right.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

Later accounts say that James II begged for their lives, pleading with the adults around him to not harm his new friends.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

See, and that's really sad because he's the fucking king. By him saying that, you should have just let him go. Yep. But they can't now because since they started this, they have to see it through because they are fucked otherwise. Because if they let these kids go, they are gonna get retaliated against and they're gonna get fucked, most likely. So they have to go through with it now, no matter what little uh little James says. So that's sad.

SPEAKER_04 33:11

So William and David were hauled out of the hall and into the courtyard outside to a place known as Castle Hill.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Okay.

James II Comes Of Age

SPEAKER_04 33:19

There was a a trial that was staged, but nobody even calls it that. No. The Douglas brothers were accused of treason, though there's no evidence that they did anything wrong. Of course not. Their ch charges were obviously made up on the spot. Yep. Contemporary records of what happened were actually fairly brief. Sure. Which is probably why there's some embellishments.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:42

Um, one um near contemporary source notes that the Douglasers were put to dead.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Put to dead?

SPEAKER_04 33:49

Spelled D-E-I-D. Put to death. I'm sure it's Scottish.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

They were unalive.

SPEAKER_04 33:55

Later chronicles filled in the scene with with the more dramatic touches.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Flares. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

As night fell, torches were lit, the executioner like pulls down his hood, he gets out his pickaxe or whatever he uses to scythe or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

He doesn't use his scythe. Oh my god. The executioner.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Could you well and that's at least the most relevant thing you said for an executioner. A pickaxe? Let's go mining, boys. What the hell?

SPEAKER_04 34:30

Okay, what why not the scythe?

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Because usually you're gonna go cut wheat with that.

SPEAKER_04 34:38

What does the Grim Reaper carry?

SPEAKER_02 34:40

That's but that's a little more, you know.

SPEAKER_04 34:42

The grim reaper likes head uh wheat?

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Yeah, he's a farmer at heart. No, it's just usually it's gonna be a sword or a fucking axe. Okay. A pickaxe. Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

So William Douglas, 16-year-old, and his brother David, likely only about 12, were beheaded that very night.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Fuck. What the hell, man?

SPEAKER_04 35:12

Yes. And of course, this shocked Scotland to the core.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

Of course.

SPEAKER_04 35:17

These were not criminals caught in open rebellion. They were guests of the king, invited under the promise of safety and killed without a fair trial. Wow. So, in a culture that placed enormous importance on that honor of hospitality, what happened that night was seen as unforgivable. And from that point on, people called that dinner the Black Dinner.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

Sure, makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Wow. In just a few hours, the most powerful noble house in Scotland had effectively been decapitated. Literally. Its young leader and brother wiped out in one stroke. That's so fucking wild. And over the centuries, like I said, some of these details were kind of blurred.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

And embellished, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

The bloodies the bloody bull's head had been potentially added to heighten their drama.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 36:06

But the core facts are not in doubt. William and David Douglas were betrayed at the castle, condemned without a trial, and executed under royal authority, even though young King James said nothing, did nothing, couldn't do anything.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Well, he said, Don't hurt my friends.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

Well, he did. And that should have been the the end.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

It should have been enough. But again, like I said, they had to go through with it now because of what they did.

SPEAKER_04 36:29

Yes, and he was just a pawn in their political games. Yeah. And he was forced to watch his little childhood brand new friends were taken from his table and killed before his eyes.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

By the end of that night in November 1440, the goal of Crichton and Livingston and potentially Archibald had been achieved.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:49

The House of Douglas was left um leaderless, and its future suddenly uncertained.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:55

Okay. Now, news of what happened at Edinburgh Castle spread very fast.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

I'm sure.

Stirling Castle: The King Strikes Back

SPEAKER_04 37:01

Like, wow, huh? And the reaction across Scotland was immediate and furious. I bet. The Douglas clan was furious. Sure. Their young leader and his brother were killed under the king's own roof, and they had no intention of letting that pass.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

No, good.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

So within days, Douglas supporters began to rally. Wow. The new head of the family was the uncle? Great Uncle James Douglas of Avondale, the very man who had the most to gain from this.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

Yes, Jimmy Doug.

SPEAKER_04 37:33

So with the teenage Earl gone, Avondale stepped neatly into that place of seventh Earl of Douglas, inheriting the lands, the titles, the wealth, the influence that belonged to his grandnephews. And as soon as he took control, the Douglas faction moved to retaliate.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

Um, forces loyal to the family marched on Edinburgh and laid siege to the castle, determined to punish Crichton and undo what had been done there. Well, you can't undo that shit.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

You really can. I mean, hey, can you stitch their heads back on? I mean, how are you gonna undo this?

SPEAKER_04 38:09

Inside the fortress, Sir William Crichton suddenly found himself in some serious trouble. He had eliminated the Douglas boys, and now he was surrounded by Angley Douglas supporters with an army at his gates. Why didn't he think things through?

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Well, I mean, what did he think was gonna happen? Obviously. Well, we killed the Douglas boys, so they're gone. No, there's more, they have loyal fucking people to them, so it's not just gonna disappear, man. You had to expect some fucking retaliation from all of the Douglas followers. Follow followers? There he is. Loyalists, loyalists, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:48

So Crichton did have one very important advantage.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

Oh, he was in a castle?

SPEAKER_04 38:53

He had King James II. Well, that's true that the 10-year-old king was effectively Crichton's hostage inside Edinburgh Castle.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:01

The Douglas forces were furious, but they were also still loyal to the crown. And they simply could not storm the castle without risking the life of the king. Sure. So both sides were stuck in this weird stalemate.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Yeah, no kidding.

SPEAKER_04 39:17

And in the end, Crichton decided not to test his luck, and rather than try to hold out under siege, he actually surrendered Edinburgh Castle.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 39:26

To save himself, he handed the fortress and the person of the king over to the royal faction, now allied with the Douglases.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 39:35

So by doing that, he managed to defuse the immediate crisis without turning the situation into an open civil war. Crichton's gamble ended up working. Instead of being executed for treason, he managed to survive.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

That's fucking wild.

SPEAKER_04 39:51

Before long, he was even rewarded for his service and raised, raised to the peerage as Lord Crichton.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

What the fuck? I mean, wow, it benefited him, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

Sir Alexander Livingston, who had helped this whole thing as well, also stayed in power for several more years.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:10

To a lot of people at the time, it looked like the men responsible for the killings had gotten away with murder. But one question still hung.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Gotten away with what? Murder. Okay, because it sounded like you said, woulda. Woulda!

SPEAKER_04 40:22

Who had really been behind it all?

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Right.

SPEAKER_04 40:26

Because many in Scotland believed that the true mastermind was James Douglas of Avondale. Right. The new seventh Earl of Douglas.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

The man who benefited directly from his grandnephew's deaths.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 40:41

So his behavior outward, afterward, only made him look more suspicious.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Oh, what did he start doing?

SPEAKER_04 40:49

Well, he made no serious attempt to avenge William and David, which in that violent and honor-driven world was highly unusual. Yes. If Avondale had quietly encouraged Crichton's actions from the start, his calm acceptance of the outcome suddenly made a lot more sense.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Right.

SPEAKER_04 41:07

So, in a strange little twist, the Black Dinner didn't weaken the Douglas family at all.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

No.

SPEAKER_04 41:14

It actually helped them, at least in the short term.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Right.

Civil War And The Fall Of The Black Douglases

SPEAKER_04 41:17

So power didn't leave the Douglases. It just shifted to an older, more experienced branch of the family. Yep. By the early 1440s, under Jave A James of Avondale's leadership, the Douglasses were right back at the center of Scottish politics. Okay. They filled key government positions, surrounded the young king with their allies, and dominated court life. Oh. So the entire plot to break Douglas' power had ended up doing the exact opposite. It removed two inexperienced teenagers and replaced them with a seasoned political operator.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Yeah. So didn't do what they planned at all.

SPEAKER_04 41:58

No. Except for Avondale got the job.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

That and the Crichton dude became lord and didn't seem to have any really repercussions of what the fuck you did.

SPEAKER_04 42:10

And Livingston was just like, I'll just stay in my job for a while, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

I mean, uh, I don't have a couple more years till I retire. That's fine. We're good.

SPEAKER_04 42:17

So for the rest of the 1440s, Scotland stayed unstable. The killings at Edinburgh Castle had not solved anything.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

No.

SPEAKER_04 42:26

They had just rearranged who was in charge. Sure. Two main factions formed around the young king. On one side were the Douglases, now led by James of um Avondale, and allied with the Livingston family. On the other side were the remnants of the royal household party, which still included William Crichton, though his influence kind of come and came and went.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

For several years, the Douglas Livingston Alliance clearly had the upper hand.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

In 1445, when James II was now 14, he was officially declared old enough to rule.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

On his own, okay.

SPEAKER_04 43:05

On paper, his minority was over.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:08

Um, but he's still very much the figurehead, right? So Crichton.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Oh, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

Crichton was pushed out of his chancellor chancellorship, and the Livingstons and the Douglases family remained the dominant force at court.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

Right.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

But James II was growing up and he hadn't forgotten what he had seen as a child.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

I was hoping you were gonna say that. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 43:29

He had watched the Black Danner unfold right in front of him. He had seen friends dragged from his table and killed while he was powerless to stop it.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 43:38

Of course, these memories stayed with him and shaped him. Sure. In 1449, at 18 years old, James married Mary of Gelders, a Burgundian princess, which was part of the Roy Roman Empire at the time. Oh, okay. Um, that which is why Burgundy, France is now a city, like. Burg Burg Burgundian.

unknown 44:01

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Burgundian?

SPEAKER_04 44:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:04

So the marriage gave him new prestige and more importantly, a sense of independence.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

Right.

SPEAKER_04 44:08

So around the same time, he finally began to assert real authority of his own. And one of his first moves was to break the power of the Livingstons.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:19

Later in 1449, James and had Sir Alexander Livingston and several of his relatives, I don't know why relatives.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Well, you know.

SPEAKER_04 44:27

But he was arrested and they were charged with treason. Wow. Their estates were confiscated, and the faction that had dominated his childhood was suddenly swept away.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:38

But the biggest obstacle was still standing.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Jimmy Douglas.

SPEAKER_04 44:42

The Douglas family, exactly. So at this point, James of Avondale, the seventh Earl, had died actually in 1443.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Oh, so quite a few years earlier. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:53

It was of natural causes.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 44:55

Um, and the Douglas title had passed then to his son, William Douglas. So another William.

Aftermath, Legacy, And James II’s Fate

SPEAKER_02 45:01

The the James Douglas, he actually didn't rule as leader of the Douglas clan for two, three tops, right? So wow, that's that sucks for him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:13

But so now his son is another William Douglas, and he is the eighth Earl of Douglas at this time. Right. Okay. So this new Earl, William, was close in age to the king and inherited everything. The lands, the wealth, the soldiers, the army.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 45:31

But most importantly, loyal, loyalty of their clan. Sure. So by the late 1440s, it was clear that the Douglasses had bounced back completely. As one historian put it, when James II finally took control of the government, he discovered that the Douglas clan still had a strong hold hold on power and had no intention of letting it go. Why would you? So tension between the king and the earl steadily grew.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_04 46:02

William Douglas began acting more and more like an independent ruler as opposed to a royal follow or a loyal follower.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:10

He made alliances, negotiated on his own, and generally trusted royal authority. Sorry, treated a ro royal authority as something optional rather than absolute.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:21

So the breaking point came when the eighth earl secretly entered into a pact with two other major nobles, the Earl of Crawford and John, Lord of the Isles.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_04 46:33

And together they formed a powerful alliance that looked dangerously close to a rival government within Scotland.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

And when James II learned about this in early 1452, he decided, enough's enough.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Yeah, I'm gonna take out the Douglas.

SPEAKER_04 46:51

The king who had once been powerless at the Black Dinner was now a full grown man. He was ready to deal with the Douglases once and for all on his own accord.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

Which is funny that he wanted to deal with them because his friends, quote unquote childhood friends for a short time.

SPEAKER_04 47:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

Were the Douglas kids.

SPEAKER_04 47:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

But now he's like, well, they fucked me with those guys, so I'm gonna just wipe you out. Yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_04 47:16

So by February of 1452, the tension between King James II and the Douglas family had reached a breaking point. Right. So the king made a move that felt very familiar to everyone who remembered what had happened twelve years earlier.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

So you invited them to dinner?

SPEAKER_04 47:32

He invited William Douglas, the eighth Earl of Douglas, to Sterling Castle for a meeting.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:38

The idea was to sit down, talk things out, and settle their differences like reasonable grown men. Sure. James even issued Douglas a formal guarantee of safe conduct, reminding him that he would be the king's um guest and had nothing to fear.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_04 47:57

Uh honestly, on the surface, it was a normal political negotiation. Yep. But we all know what happened in the past. That's not hard to miss.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

No, that's very prevalent.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

So William Douglas, knowing the history of all this, I'd hope so. Accepted.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_04 48:19

I know. Maybe he was confident, maybe he didn't want to look weak.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

Maybe he was cocky.

SPEAKER_04 48:24

Maybe he was cocky.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 48:25

He's still accepted. He traveled to Stirling in late February to meet with the 21-year-old king.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 48:32

At first, everything seemed fine, just like the black deaner. In 1452, James hosted the early the Earl for a friendly evening meal, food, conversation, no signs of trouble.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

No black bull's head.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

Thank God.

SPEAKER_04 48:46

But the next day during a private meeting, oh dear. James confronted Douglas directly.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 48:53

He demanded that the Earl break his secret alliance with the Earl of Crawford and the Lord of the Isles, a pact this the king saw as a direct threat to his authority.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

Douglas refused.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Oh, well, treason it is.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

According to later accounts, he told the king outright that he would not abandon his allies even at royal command.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 49:15

That did not go well.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Why would it?

SPEAKER_04 49:19

James II lost his temper, and in a moment, the king pulled out his dagger and stabbed Douglas himself. Oh wow. Once the attack started, James's attendants stepped in. One courtier reportedly struck the Earl with a pole axe, splitting his skull.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_04 49:39

Others joined in with knives and swords, and within moments, the eighth Earl of Douglas lay dead on the floor, cut down in the king's presence.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

That's fucking wild.

SPEAKER_04 49:50

So to make the message even clearer, Douglass's body was supposedly thrown out of a castle window. Oh fuck. Not sure.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

Embellished, maybe. Maybe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:00

But a king murdering his own guest under his roof was unthinkable for them.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Well, especially after he gave them a fucking guarantee that we're good, man, let's just talk.

SPEAKER_04 50:12

Yeah. So now James II wasn't this powerless child. He was the one holding the knife.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

A ruthless, ruthless killer. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:22

So the killing at Sterling Castle threw Scotland into open conflict.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Oh fuck.

SPEAKER_04 50:26

The Douglas family, now led by the dead Earl's brother, condemned James as a traitor and a murderer. They gathered their supporters and even made an alliance with the King of England in an attempt to bring James down.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Who's King of England at this time? We're in the 1450s, so Oh fuck. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:55

King Henry the Seventh.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

It was Henry the Seventh. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 51:00

Because that would have been Okay. Yeah. Because yeah, Henry VIII. Yeah, okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

So at this point, now we're on to Earl of Douglas number nine, I think.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Yeah, that sounds right.

SPEAKER_04 51:16

So for the next three years, from 1452 to 1455, Scotland was essentially in a civil war. Battles broke out across the country as royal forces clashed with the remaining black Douglas supporters.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:30

But James II had learned from the chaos of his childhood. He moved carefully and ruthlessly, stripping the Douglas alliances one by one. Rewarding nobles who switched sides and isolating the family politically and militarily. Wow. The final blow came in May of 1455 at the Battle of Erkenholm. Erkenholm? My apologies to the Scottish.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

Yeah, we are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:57

Royal forces crushed the Douglas army, and with that defeat, the power of the black Douglases collapsed completely. Oh wow. Parliament declared their vast estates forfeit to the crown and their great castles. Jesus. Including the um they had like this stronghold. Um that was all seized and destroyed. Sure. The last head of the family, James Douglas, because of course there's another James Douglas, the ninth of Earl, fled to exile in England.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

The ninth Earl?

SPEAKER_04 52:29

The ninth Earl.

SPEAKER_02 52:29

Not ninth of Earl.

SPEAKER_04 52:31

Ninth Earl fled to exile in England.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 52:34

Um on the genealogy report, I saw that he died as a monk. Oh, wow. In England.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

Seriously? Holy shit. He's like, well, I got nothing. Yeah. Let's go make some beer at this monastery.

SPEAKER_04 52:45

So after a nearly hundred years of dominating scholars politics, the Black Douglas dynasty was finished. Wow. And in the end, King James II had done what the conspirators at the Black Dinner never managed to do.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 52:59

He had finally broken the power of the family that had overshadowed his throne for most of his life. And that is the 1440 Black Dinner.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Well, and it's just funny because, like, you know, yes, it overshadowed his power on the throne and everything, but like at one point he's like, But my friends.

SPEAKER_04 53:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

And then that all changed. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 53:22

I mean probably because he started understanding what that was going on.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

Well, and like you said, that more or less kind of molded him and shaped him in terms of how he perceived things, probably. I don't know. But um he's like, Well, fuck, no one's safe in this world. Nope. Save yourself kind of mentality.

SPEAKER_04 53:43

I think it was maybe two centuries later something similar happened.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 53:49

Um, it's um call it's taking place at Glencoe. Sure. In Scotland. I I don't know the situation. I was actually gonna include it in this as like this happened and then this happened two centuries later.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

Um, but soldiers were invited into somebody's home. Oh they dined with them and lived with them for a while, and then they killed like 30 some people.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

Well, that just reminds me of like uh and again, I don't know how embellished or true this is, but like I think it was even the real Dracula Vlad Tepesh or however you say his last name properly.

SPEAKER_04 54:26

I've heard it as Tepesh.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

Yeah, either way.

SPEAKER_04 54:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

He invited this had this party. I might be getting I think it was him. But basically in this giant like barn type structure or whatever, and then locked it and burned it down with everybody inside or whatever. So similar kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 54:45

It's like the is it the Patriot? The Patriot where everybody's locked in the church and I've never seen that movie. I think the British locked people locked the Americans in a church and burned the whole church down with everyone in it.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

Yeah. Being a place of God and all.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

That's just crazy though, because like the fact that you have these people trying to run the country through a boy king. They fuck some shit up, they kind of help mold the way he becomes and whatever. Did you come across how long he was king then? Like how long did he live? Did you see that at all?

SPEAKER_04 55:23

Oh shh shoot.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

It's fine if he didn't. I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_04 55:27

Like I I did, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

Okay. Because clearly he made it through all this shit.

SPEAKER_04 55:33

Yeah, I'm gonna look it up now because I did see it at one point.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Okay. Because I'm just curious uh how long well he lasted really.

SPEAKER_04 55:42

But um he died at 29 years old in 1460.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

So now I'm only a little bit afterwards. Oh okay. Does it does it say what he died of by chance or um let's see. Only being 29, sounds like he got injured or something.

SPEAKER_04 56:02

Yes. Um, he was in a war and he was standing next to cannons and it exploded and it killed him.

SPEAKER_02 56:10

Oh shit. Why was the king standing next to cannons? That's fucking weird. I don't know. That's crazy. All right. Well, yeah, that'll that'll do it.

SPEAKER_04 56:20

Yeah, so that'll do. Yeah, I'm I'm surprised I didn't look into it, but I did not.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

That's all right. Well, maybe uh the the one that happened a couple centuries later could be a future story.

SPEAKER_04 56:30

So Glencoe. Welp. I suppose.

SPEAKER_02 56:34

All right, buffoons. That's it for today's episode.

SPEAKER_04 56:37

Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time. Feeling hungry for more buffoonery? Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

SPEAKER_02 56:48

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SPEAKER_04 57:02

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SPEAKER_02 57:07

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SPEAKER_04 57:11

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