Several Shoulders: The Molotov Cocktail

A superpower rolls in with tanks and a million soldiers, convinced the job will be quick. Then the snow hits, the forests close in, and Finland refuses to play by the rules. We’re Bradley and Kate, and we’re telling the underdog story of the Winter War, when the Soviet Union invades Finland in late 1939 and discovers that “overwhelming force” doesn’t mean much on narrow roads, in deep drifts, at brutal temperatures.

We break down why Stalin wants a buffer zone near Leningrad, how negotiations collapse, and why the Mainila shelling incident is widely viewed as a pretext for war. From there we get into the on-the-ground reality: Finnish ski troops, white camouflage, locals who know the terrain, and the motti tactic that slices Soviet columns into isolated pockets and slowly starves them of supplies. If you’ve ever wondered how a smaller army can outthink a larger one, this is a masterclass in winter warfare and battlefield adaptability.

Then we get to the wild part: the true origin of the Molotov cocktail. Soviet foreign minister Vyacheslav Molotov claims bombs are actually humanitarian “food parcels,” so Finns sarcastically nickname them “Molotov bread baskets” and decide to provide a drink to go with the meal. We talk about how these improvised firebombs could disable tanks, how Finland scaled production through Alko, and how the Molotov cocktail later spreads through conflicts around the world. If you like military history, World War II stories, and the weird places language comes from, hit play, subscribe, and leave us a review, then share your favorite underdog moment with us.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Oh hey there.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:18

You better know that that stopped. It's very windy out. It's extremely windy out, and we're the history buffoons.

SPEAKER_04 0:27

Yes, I am Kate.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

And I am Bradley.

SPEAKER_04 0:29

And we are very unpolished.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Very unpolished.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

And that's what makes us great.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

That's what makes us buffoons. We just throw some history on top of it.

SPEAKER_04 0:40

So uh we just kind of sprinkle it in.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

A little dustin'.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

A little dustin of history.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

You know, I think it needs a little more history. Get out the history shaker, pour some on it.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

Pour some history on me.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

In the name of learning. I don't know. Um so yeah, we're the history buffoons.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

Did I say I was Kate?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

You did. I was talking, but okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:07

Yeah, what's up?

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Uh anyone who likes listening to the show, please like, subscribe, all that nonsense that people say. And uh, if you feel so inclined to help us out with uh researching and equipment and such, you can go to our website. There's a link on the top that you can help us uh by donating very minimal amounts of dollars, but it helps with uh just getting done what we like to do because we rather enjoy doing this. And uh that's I think shown because we're about to record episode 85 of the buffoons. That is wild. I mean, that's a lot of you okay? Yep. Was it sliding down?

SPEAKER_04 1:48

No, I just decided to move it.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Oh, okay. Like we said, we're very unpolished. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

Yeah. So today. Today, we are going to talk about um the Soviet Union invading Finland.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

Right before World War II.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Just to kind of put it out there.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Sounds like an upbeat tale.

SPEAKER_04 2:13

It's super de-duper. Super de duper. Super de duper upbeat. Can you hear the drums applying?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

I like drums.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

Snap your fingers.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Snap your neck.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

No fingers like a gang.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

No, I got it. There's a song by Prong called Snap Your Fingers, Snap Your Neck.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Oh, I believe you.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

You should because it's real.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

So you know. Anyways. All right. Finland getting invaded by Germany.

unknown 2:43

No.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Russia. Yes. There it is.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Well, you know, you can see where I mixed up there.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

But I just said it.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Well, not everything you say is sticks.

SPEAKER_04 2:54

Oh. Is that my problem or yours?

Beer Tasting And Setup

SPEAKER_00 2:56

I think both. Oh. That's why we record this so I can I listen back all the time. I'm like, I just learned something. Anyways, what are we drinking today? I got you something special. I got a B on mine. You got a but yeah, I'm gonna have one with her, and then I got a secondary one as well.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

So we got Have I had this one before?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

No, I don't I don't think so.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

It is uh the Lakefront Brewery um Honey Bach Lager with Honey, but it's also barrel aged. It's barrel aged, and you really wanted to try one as well. You have a different podcast beer, but you're like, I want to try this one.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Well, yeah, because it looked good. I mean, honey bock.

SPEAKER_04 3:34

I like it's good.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Loggers are growing on me. Are they? Um, well, I drink banquet all the time, and that's yeah. But like, I don't know, the honey sounded good and the barrel aged sounded good. So, does it have an ABV on it?

SPEAKER_04 3:50

This German-inspired honey bok was aged in bourbon barrels. Um it doesn't look like it has it listed on the can.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Alright, well let's crack her up and see what it tastes like, shall we?

SPEAKER_04 4:06

We shall.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Cheers.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

Cheers to be happy.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Oh, you're not gonna like that.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Holy shit.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

I have a backup modello.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

That is that is strong.

SPEAKER_04 4:30

Holy crap. That is not my thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Nope. And that's why I'm like, I should try this with you.

SPEAKER_04 4:37

Okay, the honey is strong.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

It's very strong, but so is the barrel age. So is the barrel age? Because it's uh bourbon barrel, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:45

So do you think okay, so if you had your way, would you take out more of the honey, or would you take out more of the the bourbon?

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Let me take another sip here.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

I have to wash mine.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

I don't know. I like it.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

Do you? Yeah. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

It's not something I hate to waste a beer.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Oh, it won't go to waste.

SPEAKER_04 5:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Um, and I hate when you waste beer too. But um, it's it's potent.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

It is.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

This has got to be some pretty high ABV then.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

Yeah, I'm gonna try it again.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Just give it another go. You're not gonna like it, but give it a try.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

But I like the I like the can. The can.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

It's oh no.

SPEAKER_04 5:33

Okay, for me it's the bourbon.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

I figured. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:35

For me, it's the bourbon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Oh, cross.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Gurgling her modello.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Just I don't have a very big mouth.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Nope. That's what you say.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Oh my gosh. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

She has to cut her grapes in half to eat them. Just saying.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

Okay, well, that will put some hair on your chest.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Oh, Jesus. I think I'll put some hair in my ass. Jesus Christ. That is that is potent stuff.

SPEAKER_04 6:10

Okay, so I think my microphone. Isn't my microphone okay? Can you hear me well?

SPEAKER_00 6:16

I can hear you fine.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

I think.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

I don't know. I feel like no.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Well, because you you extended it and because the weight balance is now way off, it's gonna keep going down on you.

unknown 6:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Yeah, that's my apologies. You're good. All right.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

We we pack up our stuff after every recording, so we have to take it all back out just because we don't have the space.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

So we don't have a dedicated studio, even though we are actually in the podloft together.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

We are.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

It's been a minute. Um but we uh, you know, it's a small room, so we clean it up and pack it up so it's not everywhere. But it would be lovely to have a studio someday, but you know, we we make do.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Yeah, we do.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Just like, you know, Russia may do attacking Finland. Yeah, let's talk about that. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_04 7:06

So when you think of war.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

I think of uh the band. War.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Say it again. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

No, that's not what I think of. Uh oh my god, why Lowrider. There we go. You're thinking of a song called War.

SPEAKER_04 7:30

Yes, I know.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

I'm thinking of the band that does the song Lowrider. Yes, I know. No, you don't.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

Well, I knew you weren't referencing a song, you were referencing a band. Anyway, let's move on. Wow, that just when you think of war, you think of burping. Pardon me. Massive armies, powerful leaders, giant machine tanks, and guns and stuffs. Depending on the era, cannons, like whatever. Yeah, right, right. But every once in a while something ridiculous happens during war, and that's what we're gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Kind of like the what was Cor Corporal Wo Wojak? What was the bear? The bear. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

The bear.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Because that's that was weird. That was that was that was weird. Yeah, that was.

SPEAKER_04 8:22

If you haven't listened to the origin story on Wojtek Voy t Voytek. Voytek, that's it's Voytek the the bear in the in the Polish army. That one's that's a great episode.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

That's so weird.

Why The Soviet Union Invades

SPEAKER_04 8:34

So our story begins in uh the autumn of 1939.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Oh, that's a good time.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Europe is um sliding towards this big catastrophe we all know is gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 8:45

In September of that year, Nazi Germany had already invaded Poland, yep. Um, which which would start World War II.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Started the war, yep.

SPEAKER_04 8:54

But north of that, there's another conflict that's happening. Um, so in November of 1939, tensions between Finland and the Soviet Union um erupted into like open warfare um in what would become the winter war.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Winter war.

SPEAKER_04 9:12

I've not heard of that, have you?

SPEAKER_00 9:13

No, yeah, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_04 9:15

So the Soviet Union's second largest city at the time was called Leningrad. Yep. Um, today it's St. Petersburg. Correct. Um, and it sat really close to the Finnish border.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

Yeah. I should have looked up some some maps because I don't know that area.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

We'll try and get some the in the video portion of this.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

So um at its nearest point, the frontier of Finnish Finland was like 20 miles away. Like super close. That close.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

So to Soviet leadership, this proximity was very, very vulnerable. Sure. Um, and if a hostile power ever attacked through Finland, uh Leningrad would be threatened immediately. Instantly, yeah. So the man making these um calculations, if you will, was Soviet leader Joseph Stalin. Yeah, and he had spent much of the 1930s tightening his grip on power. Sure. Stalin believed that the Soviet Union needed a protective buffer zone of territory between itself and potential enemies.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Okay. I mean, it makes sense. It's like having a moat around your country.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

A moat, if you will. A simple moat. You know, Finland was small, but it was still a strategic, um, strategic ground that they could have, right? That they wanted. Right. So Soviet diplomats began pressuring Finland throughout 1939, proposing in what they would try to call mutual security agreement. The proposal sounded reasonable on the surface. Finland would hand over a certain amount of territory along the border in exchange for the Soviet Union would offer like other land for them far east.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

So, in reality, the deal would have pushed Finland's defensive lines dangerously close to the population centers and handed the Soviets control of key strategic points in the country. Okay. And Finland, they weren't having this because the country had just gained independence from the Soviet Union in 1917. Oh, so it's after centuries of being under imperial rule.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Oh, I didn't realize that. Okay, so they were like, no, it's like 22 years.

SPEAKER_04 11:36

Yeah, like we're we're a fresh little training. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

We're we're we're I forgot the word I was gonna use. Go on.

SPEAKER_04 11:43

So, so memories of like that um domination were really still fresh in their minds, and many Finns feared that giving up territory would be like the first step towards losing their their sovereignty entirely.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Right.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

So Finland was like, no, we're good. We're good.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

We don't want this.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

Yeah, so negotiations dragged on for weeks as Soviet demands grew a little bit more aggressive, and then on November 26, in 1939, a mysterious artillery incident occurred near the village of Maynela. What's it called? Mainila.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Maynila?

SPEAKER_04 12:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

Soviet authorities claim that Finnish forces had shelled Soviet territory, killing several sh several shoulders. Shoulders. Soldiers. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

I'm like, I guess that yeah, if they killed a couple soldiers. If they killed some soldiers, they probably killed a couple shoulders.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

I would imagine.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

So shoulders. Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

Soldiers is hard to say sometimes, okay?

SPEAKER_00 12:52

It's oddly similar to shoulders.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

So Finland denied responsibility. Okay. They're like, we didn't shell your country. Why would we be that stupid?

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 13:03

Um, and they suggested the Soviet army might have fired the shells into themselves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

I kind of thought that might be where that's going.

SPEAKER_04 13:11

They're like, we didn't do did you didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Me? No, no.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

So historians today widely believe that the incident was staged as a pretext for this winter war.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

Four days later, on November 30th, Soviet troops crossed into Finland.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

So from the Soviet perspective, the campaign looked like it would be a routine military operation.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Right.

SPEAKER_04 13:35

The Soviet Union fielded um an enormous army, over a million soldiers were available for this invasion. And they brought thousands of tanks, um, hundreds of aircraft, and massive artillery support.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

Finland's entire army was a fraction of that size.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Well, yeah. I mean, Finland's pretty small in general compared to Russia.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Uh-huh. So and Finland could only muster about 300,000 soldiers.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

That's actually still pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

And many of them were military reservists, like from the reserve and volunteers.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Soviet planners assumed that the Finnish government would collapse quickly once faced with an overwhelming force.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Right. I mean makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

Yeah. So some Soviet officers reportedly believe that Helsinki, which is Finland's capital, would fall within a matter of weeks. So in the early days of the campaign, Soviet propaganda confidently predicted like a swift victory.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 14:38

The invasion was presented not as a brutal conquest, but more of a liberation of the Finnish Finnish people. Bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Good lord.

SPEAKER_04 14:48

And many Soviet soldiers themselves expected a short campaign.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Well, of course they did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:54

Some accounts uh suggested that troops were told to pack light, light winter gear because the war would be over before their winter set in. They will be home by Christmas. Everything will be done in just a matter of weeks, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Oh, they're okay.

Finland’s Winter Terrain Advantage

SPEAKER_04 15:11

Yeah. But they encountered something a little differently.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Was it the terrain?

SPEAKER_04 15:17

It was the terrain. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Look at me go.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

Yeah. So Finland, um, not a great place to fight a war in winter.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

No, I can't imagine it would be.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

December temperatures would plunge well below zero.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Right.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

Snowpiled deep across forests and frozen lakes.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 15:34

The landscape became more of a maze of dense woods, narrow roads, icy wilderness that would stretch on for miles.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:44

And unlike the invading large ass army, the Finnish soldiers soldiers knew the terrain very, very well.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Well, they definitely have the advantage from being there.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

So yes. Many of the Finnish troops were hunters and farmers. Right, yeah. Lumber workers, people who were accustomed to surviving outdoors in these brutal conditions.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Oh, that makes sense because obviously, again, like you said, a lot of them were volunteers. So what do these volunteers do? They're normal jobs and shit.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Which is a lot of that stuff that you just listed off. So yeah, it makes sense that they would have that advantage over an invading army.

SPEAKER_04 16:23

And they would wear skis to glide silently through these forests where Soviet vehicles struggled to maneuver, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Well, did they come with a plow on the front? Because fuck.

unknown 16:34

No.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

They also had these white camouflage uh uniforms, so that blended like perfectly into the landscape.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_04 16:41

Yeah. So the Soviet army, by contrast, often found itself itself stuck on these really narrow forest roads, and they had like long columns of tanks, like one by one. Right. Because it's like single file.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah, it's it's like the sand people in Star Wars. They travel in single file to hide their numbers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:02

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Just coming up with shit.

SPEAKER_04 17:06

You ahead.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Thanks.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

So vehicles would be bogged down in deep snow, engines would freeze, um, soldiers unused to the extreme cold suffered soft uh frostbite and exhaustion. Right. And the Finnish army couldn't match the Soviet Union in numbers, but it had adaptability. Sure. Finnish troops developed tactics that relied on speed and mobility. Instead of confronting Soviet forces head on, they targeted isolated units and supply lines. Which makes sense. So Soviet columns moving along these narrow forest roads would suddenly find themselves cut apart into smaller pockets. Oh shit. So once separated, these pockets would be surrounded and destroyed. So the tactic became known as moti or mo moti, a Finnish word referring to a stack of firewood cut into manageable pieces. Oh, sure. Uh Soviet divisions that had entered Finland had massive formations and they were chopped into these smaller pieces for a much smaller army.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Okay. So that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 18:15

I had to look up like how they did this because if there's like a huge line of tanks and soldiers, how did the Finns like get in there to break up these people? Right?

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:26

So Finnish ski troops moved silently through the forest, and then on either side of the road columns, and because they were traveling on snee skis and wearing and wearing um white camouflage, they could move really quickly and pretty invisible.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

So instead of attacking the entire Soviet column, um, they targeted specific specific points along the road.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 18:52

They would blow up bridges, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 18:54

They would fell trees to cut them off. Yep. Um, and then they would also destroy the first vehicle in the convoy and the last vehicle.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

They couldn't move then, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:06

So once the ends were blocked off, the Soviet column suddenly found itself trapped. So within the road blocked with within the road, it was blocked in multiple positions.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah, multiple points, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:17

And Finnish troops would then strike again at these points along the column, dividing it in even into even smaller groups.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

So some of these possibilities.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

I mean that's that's brilliant. I know. I mean, again, using your terrain if to your advantage, that's that's quite brilliant to do. And like they clearly, you know, being the smaller army, like the Russians said, ah, we got this.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

But they they used everything they had to their advantage to uh make it rather difficult for them to uh to just be so cocky and like, yeah, we we got you.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Yeah, exactly. Anyways, so yeah, um, some of these pockets contain only a handful of vehicles. Um, others might hold like hundreds of soldiers, but once separated, they could no longer support each other. Right. So Finnish troops rarely rushed in for a direct attack.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 20:11

Attack. So instead they surrounded the trapped pockets and began a slow process of process of attrition. They would cut supply lines, they would harass the um trapped troops with sniper fire.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_04 20:23

They would attack supply trucks and destroy vehicles when opportunities arose. Sure. So in the brutal winter conditions, Soviet soldiers trapped in these pockets quickly began to run out of food, ammunition, and warm clothing. Oh boy. Yes. Meanwhile, Soviet tanks expected to dominate the battlefield and they began encountering an unexpected problem. The machines were powerful, right, but they were designed for open terrain.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Correct. Not is it pretty mountainous in in uh more forests.

SPEAKER_04 21:03

Just forest, okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

I was I'm I I don't know the topography of Finland.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

So tanks that strayed off roads would become instantly stuck.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

And when a tank stopped moving in the middle of the Finnish forest, it bec became a target.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

So within weeks, the Soviet leadership had expected to be a quick and tidy campaign, was starting to become a little bit more humiliating for them as the Soviet casualties mounted uh rapidly.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:32

Um, entire units disappeared into the forest, columns of tanks were ambushed and destroyed, and it dragged on for many, many cold months as opposed to we're gonna be home by Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

So, how do you have how long this total war was?

SPEAKER_04 21:48

How long it was?

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Like it lasted, yeah, because it started at the end of November.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

Um, it was only like March of the next year.

Motti Tactics Against Soviet Columns

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Okay, so not terribly long. Okay, so four months roughly. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

So as Soviet army struggled to adapt, the Finns began finding creative ways to fight machines. Um and they had no conventional weapons to stop them.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:15

So remember the very beginning when I said something ridiculous is about to happen?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:21

Keep that in mind.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Alright.

SPEAKER_04 22:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

So in my mind.

SPEAKER_04 22:26

When Soviet forces crossed into Finland at the start of the Winter War, um, they brought these huge columns of tanks.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 22:37

Um the Soviet tanks unit rolled forward along these narrow roads. Um, and engines like were rumbling through the the bitter air. And to Soviet commanders, these machines represented overwhelming force. Sure, of course, yeah. Um, steel armor, mounted uh machine guns, heavy cannons, and it was supposed to attack the Finnish resistance really quickly.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Yeah, like l literally obliterate them. Yes. Kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 23:08

So once the tanks started moving, the assumption was that the Finnish defenses would collapse under their weight.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Like instantly, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:15

And of course the Finns were like, oh, this looks this sucks. This really sucks.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

This sucks.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

Uh Finland possessed very few anti-tank guns.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

And those they did have were scattered thinly across the front. Sure. Ammunition was limited, and replacement equipment was scarce, and many Finnish soldiers suddenly found themselves facing facing machines that weighed more than 20 tons and armor thick enough to shrug off any simple rifle fire.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Of course, yeah.

Tanks Become Trapped Targets

SPEAKER_04 23:45

Standing in the snow with a little more than a rifle and a few grenades, the tanks were like unstoppable monsters. Right. Rifles and machine guns could harass a tank, but they could not stop one. Yep. If Finland was going to survive the invasion, its soldiers needed a way to fight machines that seemed nearly in uh invincible. So they began to inter improvise.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Cool.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

One of the solutions came in the form of a simple glass bottle filled with gasoline.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

A Molotov cocktail?

SPEAKER_04 24:17

A Molotov cocktail.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Is that where this was invented?

SPEAKER_04 24:22

They were using Molotov cocktails a little bit before the war, this winter war.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

The name came from this story.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Did it really? Yes. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Well, that's fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

I wanted to surprise you by what we were talking about, so that's why I just said it was the Soviet Union invading Finland. But my story is about the Molotov talk cocktail.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

That's awesome. And yeah. On that note, I'm gonna open my my normal podcast beer. This is a new Sierra Nevada uh little thing. They have a series, it's called Little Things or whatever. Yeah. But this is a Citra little thing IPA, and it's a hazy IPA. And um, yeah, I'm gonna open this and wash out that bourbon barrel eight. Did you end up liking it? I like it, but man, I cannot have a lot of those in one sitting.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

You would be on the floor if you did, and it's it's so it's got so much flavor. It's like overpowering. Sorry, overpowering kind of. So cheers to this one.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Yeah, I want to hear what you have to say.

Molotov Cocktail Name Origin

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yep. That's good. It's uh got a little more for being a hazy, I don't want to say it's got the more traditional pine notes of a IPA, but I've got a hint of it. I also don't know if it's conflicting with that. Yeah, yeah. So, anyways, all right. So the m the how do you how do you properly say it?

SPEAKER_04 25:47

Molotov.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Molotov. Okay, because I know I always said it wrong, but okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

So at the very same time that tanks were grinding their way across the Finnish border, another battle was being fought on the airwaves.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

The Soviet government um was dis determined to control the story of the war, of course, just as much as the battlefield.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:08

Soviet leaders insisted that their invasion was not an act of aggression, but a kind of humanitarian mission.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Yeah, because you said they were trying to liberate the Finnish people. Is that what you said earlier? Right. And and I mean, they're tr clearly trying to um control the narrative on this because they said no, they attacked us, they they killed some of our shoulders. And um, it's like, no, you did that to your own people, yeah. To boost this.

SPEAKER_04 26:37

So the man that was delivering these messages over the airwaves was Vayeschevet. Nope. Vayacheslav.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

That's a that's a tough name to say. Yeah. Yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_04 26:50

Vayacheslov Molotov.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Oh, so it came from his name? Came from his name. So it's someone's last name.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

Um he was the Soviet Union's foreign minister and one of the most recognizable voices in the regime.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 27:06

So Molotov went on Soviet radio broadcast to explain that Soviet aircraft flying over Finland were not dropping bombs on Finnish cities. According to him, the planes were delivering humanitarian supplies. Oh, geez. Food parcels and food parcels intended to help the Finnish population.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

So it was a claim so disconnected from reality that many Finns could only respond with humor. The explosions shaking their homes and streets did not look or sound like relief packages.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Humanitarian packages.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

So Finnish uh civilians came up with their own interpretation of Molotov's explanation. Okay. If the bombs were supposed to be food deliveries, then clearly they must be baskets of bread. So before long, people began referring to the Soviet cluster bombs falling from the sky as Molotov bread baskets.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Jesus Christ, that's funny.

SPEAKER_04 28:07

The nickname spread quickly, and it was just another layer of sarcasm that they had to deal with. Yeah. If Molotov was delivering these bread baskets, the Finns uh reasoned that it seemed only polite to offer something to drink alongside the meal.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

So they had Molotov cocktails.

SPEAKER_04 28:25

So they improvised firebombs.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

That's funny.

SPEAKER_04 28:28

They called them Molotov cocktails, a drink prepared sp uh specially for Molotov to accompany his generous supply of bread. In the middle of a brutal invasion, the Finns had managed to turn Soviet propaganda into their punchline.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

I had no idea that's how this came about for that name. That's fucking funny. I like that.

How Molotov Cocktails Stop Tanks

SPEAKER_04 28:47

So at first, Molotov cocktails were exactly what you would expect. The bottles filled with gasoline, stuffed with clock cloth rags, and it would be lit before throwing.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Of course.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

Um, the Finnish military quickly realized um they actually worked really well. Sure. When thrown correctly, the bottle would shatter on impact, spreading flaming fuel across the tank's engine's vents or vision slits.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Oh, sure, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:12

Tanks dependent on airflow to cool their engines.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 29:17

Flames entering the engine compartment could dis disable the vehicle or force the crew to abandon it.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

And once the usefulness of the weather of the weapon became clear, Finland did other things. They actually began producing Molotov cocktails in factories.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

That's crazy. So how did they how did they produce those? Like, did they just have like a screw cap, you take that off and stuff in the the cloth or whatever?

SPEAKER_04 29:45

I mean, how do you So they actually went to a state-runned alcohol company called Alco.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Alco.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

And instead of bottling liquor, Alco factories began mass producing these incendiary weapons.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

That's fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_04 30:00

Workers filled bottles with a mixture of gasoline, ethanol, and tar designed to stick and burn longer.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Yep, yep, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

Some bottles were fitted with storm matches so they would ignite automatically when thrown. And by the end of the war, Finland had manufactured roughly 450,000 Molotov cocktails.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

That's fucking wild.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Isn't that awesome?

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Did they have a label on it? Wouldn't that be funny? Oh, that's crazy. I didn't I had no idea they did that. That is so funny.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

So using these Molotov cocktails was incredibly dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Of course.

SPEAKER_04 30:37

The weapon only functioned if the body, nope, bottle shattered and the burning fuel spread across the right part of the vehicle. Yeah. Which meant that soldiers had to get very close, sometimes within just a few feet of a moving tank.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Too close.

SPEAKER_04 30:53

So today to make these attacks possible, Finnish troops developed careful tactics designed to neutralize the tank's biggest advantages, mobility and visibility.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:04

So Soviet tanks moving through these forts were usually confined to these narrow roads I mentioned. Yep. And um the trees, the forests. Yeah. So Finnish soldiers would quietly prepare ambush sites ahead of time. That makes sense. Falling large trees across the road or destroying bridges so that the column was slow or stop.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 31:25

Once the lead or rear vehicles were disabled, the tanks in between were effectively trapped, unable to maneuver in deep snow or dense forest.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Well, like I said, they couldn't, it's not like they could just drive off the road and go around because then they would get stuck because they're off the road because they're meant to be in open territory or land or whatever you want to call it. And so, yeah, I mean, it's not like pull up, just go around them. Just go around, right? Can't do that. Yep. We're stuck.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

So at this point, the small Finnish teams would move in. Sure. The attacks were coordinated. Yep. One group might distract the tank crew by firing rifles at viewing port or tossing grenades towards the tracks. Their goal wasn't necessarily to damage the tank, but to force the crew to focus in one direction.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah, it was a diversion. Thank you. There's the word diversion because yeah, well, it's not like, hey, we're gonna take this tank out. They knew what they were doing. We're we're getting your focus over here, so someone over here can go.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

Yep. So meanwhile, another soldier would slip in from the side or or the rear, or the tank's armor was thinner and its visibility was poor.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 32:34

The most vulnerable point on many Soviet tanks was the engine department. So tanks relied on ventilation grills to cool their engines, right? And those openings could allow burning fuel to seep inside.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

And that would fuck them up real bad.

SPEAKER_04 32:50

A well-thrown Molotov cocktail shattering across the engine deck could send uh flames licking into those vents.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:59

The sticky fuel mixture would cling to the metal surface, continuing to burn even in the cold. Oh, yeah. If the fire took hold, thick smoke could begin pouring into the tank's interior. And inside those cramped metal boxes, crews would have to make a choice. Remain inside and risk suffocation or burning, or climb out into the open where Finnish soldiers were waiting.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:23

And of course, many chose to abandon the vehicle.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Well, you kind of have to because you you're fucked if you stay. Yeah. I mean, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, kind of thing. Yeah. And you clearly you stay in the tank, you're gonna suffocate because that smoke, obviously, what carbon and carbon dioxide dioxide, thank you, or whatever. You know, your oxygen supply is dwindling fast, being taken over by all this smoke. And so, like, yeah, like, oh, we gotta go. Yeah, yeah. Oh, crap.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

So a handful of soldiers carrying um little more than these glass bottles full of gasoline could disable armored vehicles that re represented some of the Soviet Union's most expensive military equipment.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:04

And the force of Finland, a small team armed with Molotov cocktails, sometimes managed to destroy these machines worth hundreds of thousands of rubles, turning improvised weapons into effective tools against this modern armor.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Yeah.

Mass Production And Global Afterlife

SPEAKER_04 34:20

Now, hundreds of thousands of rubles back then um is equ equaling close to like a million dollars. Oh wow. Yeah. So the Molotov cocktail in one form or another did exist before the Winter War. Sure. Um yeah. Improvised incendiary bombs had appeared in earlier conflicts, including the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s. Really? Where fighters used similar fuel-filled bottles against vehicles.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

During the fighting in Finland, the weapon became closely tied to the uh Soviet prime minister, excuse me, the foreign minister um Molotov. Yeah, um, the combination of wartime improvisation and humor gave the Molotov cocktail a symbolic identity.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

That's funny.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

I mean, now you would think about it in like mob movies, you know?

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Yeah, like any getting rid of a car. Old timey ones, like, yeah, throw it.

SPEAKER_04 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Blows up. Yeah, no, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 35:20

So it wasn't just a bottle of fuel anymore, it was a small act of resistance.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Didn't they do that at the end of the whole nine yards when they burn up uh the guys after getting them and everything? Because doesn't uh Bruce Willis's character throws one in there, I think, right?

SPEAKER_04 35:35

Something like that.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Something like that. That's funny. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 35:37

So after the war, both the name and the weapon spread around the world. One of the most dramatic examples came during the Hungarian Revolution of 1956. Oh, okay. When civilian in Budapest used Molotov cocktails against Soviet tanks rolling through city streets.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Right.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

Similar improvised weapons appeared during the Vietnam War and later during the uprisings of the Arab Spring in the early 2010 uh 2010s.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 36:02

Again and again the pattern repeated itself. Whether ordinary, whenever ordinary people found themselves confronting these armored armored vehicles with little more than what they could carry in their hands, the maltolf cocktail always resurfaced.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 36:14

It required no factory, no complex machinery, and almost no training. It was just a bottle.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Here's a bottle, shove a cloth in it, light it, throw it.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

Exactly.

Winter War Outcome And Casualties

SPEAKER_00 36:24

It's pretty self-explanatory after that. So that's crazy. Isn't that awesome? I had no idea. Like the little guy. Yeah, no. So did they did they ward off the Russians then?

SPEAKER_04 36:39

Did they so um the war actually ended with a peace treaty?

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Oh, it did.

SPEAKER_04 36:46

Yes. Um, Finland had to give about give up um a certain percentage of territory.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Oh, they did?

SPEAKER_04 36:52

Mm-hmm. And some of the Finns were forced to relocate. Um, and then the Soviet Union gained parts of these territories near Leningrad.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Gotcha. Yeah. For their for their buffer zone.

SPEAKER_04 37:04

So technically the Soviet Union won, but the Finlands like warded them off for a great while.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Well, they well, like you said, the Russians It was like a bad victory. Yeah, but the well, the Russians were going in thinking, like, yeah, we got this. We'll yeah, we'll be home before Christmas. You guys can all open your what I don't know if Russians do Christmas presents, but whatever. Um, blah blah blah. And uh so for the Finnish people to make it such a well, we'll call it an ordeal for them, not as easy as they thought. Yeah, but so I'd say it's a it's a win for the Finnish in a way, even though they lost some territory.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

Yeah, so I have numbers. Oh, okay. Estimated losses.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

The Soviet casualties, 300,000 plus, either killed, wounded, or missing.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

Finnish, 70,000. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

That's really not bad. I mean, you lose 30% of your your army and you only lose what 25%, not even, right? So wow.

unknown 38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

It's probably more like 20%.

SPEAKER_04 38:07

So and Finland remained um independent. Independent.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

So really they didn't lose either.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Like they lost a little bit of land, yeah. Which sucked because obviously the Finnish Finland shrunk a little bit, but overall, I mean, they stayed independent from Russia, which would have changed if Russia did what they wanted to do.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

And then of course, you know, you didn't lose that many people. I mean, still a decent amount, obviously, but not as much as what you took out. So you said killed, wounded, or missing. Do you think like I don't know how much it thaws there, but like like the next time it thawed out, you're like, oh hey, there's some there's a dead Russian guy right there.

SPEAKER_04 38:53

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

I would imagine. That'd be fucking wild. Because you had to know that some of them probably like ran off and then like fuck, I don't know where I am, got stuck or whatever, and probably perished in the snow and harsh weathers. Because you said a lot of times it got under zero, right? Yep. So if you didn't pack properly, like they told them, don't worry, this will be in and out. Oh, you're probably gonna die in the cold, too. So I wonder how I w you'll never know, but I wonder how many Russians die due to weather conditions, if you will.

SPEAKER_04 39:28

That's fair.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah, I'm guessing there's quite a few, but yeah. Anyway, so we haven't done one in a while.

SPEAKER_04 39:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Should we do an idiom?

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Let's do an idiom. Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Could you never do that again?

SPEAKER_01 39:44

Uh uh. Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

All right. Yeah, it's been uh the way I try and track these, so I don't use the same one. It's been about 24 episodes since we've done one.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

So I mean, if you think about it, that's 24 weeks. I mean, that's almost half a year. So shit. It's been a second. It's been a minute, so all right. And I'm pretty sure I've never done this one. If I have, it's a refresher. It's a refresher. Have you ever heard of the idiom shooting from the hip? I have. Okay. What would you guess?

SPEAKER_04 40:27

Well, in massage, I actually use my hip. I lock my elbow into my pelvis and use my body weight as a way to increase my pressure. Instead of just my arm, I lock it into the hip. And that's how I shoot in from the hip. Nope.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

I am gonna call you terrible things later.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

A buffoon?

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Yeah, but worse.

SPEAKER_04 40:51

An unpolished buffoon.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

You're an unpolished buffoon. Okay, thank you for that. Whatever that was. Um what do you think it is?

SPEAKER_04 41:04

Shooting from the hip.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Um where do you think it comes from, at least general time frame?

SPEAKER_04 41:08

Well, shooting, I think of guns.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Of course.

SPEAKER_04 41:12

I think of Wild West.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Yep, correct.

SPEAKER_04 41:14

Um, am I on the right track?

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Yeah, so um it like like a really fast draw. Yeah, yeah, that's that's exactly what it is. Okay. Um, so literally it says it comes from the way guns were sometimes fired in the American frontier or old west. So cowboys and gunfighters carried revolvers, as you always see in the the movies. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Um and they were in holsters on their hips, of course. In fast confrontation, they sometimes fired the gun immediately from when they pull it out, sorry, um, from the hip without raising it to your eye level uh to aim, which normally, you know, you're gonna do this because it's got the sight down the middle and whatever. Um the this method was much faster. Yeah, obviously, because you can people don't see it coming, yeah. Correct. Uh, but it was far less accurate, yeah. Because you're not, you know, aiming down the sights, of course. So um, because shooting from the hip was quick, instinctive, and not carefully aimed, the phrase started being used metaphorically. Um, so uh kind of winging it.

SPEAKER_04 42:22

Yep, that's how I yeah, that's how I kind of mid-20th century.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

People use it to describe someone who speaks without thinking first, acts impulsively, responds quickly without careful planning. Yep, exactly. So he just shot from the hip during the meeting and gave an answer without checking the facts, kind of shit.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

I got that one right.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

You did. So basically, um, the basic idea of the idiom is fast is greater than um being careful.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

Accurate, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Oh accurate, yeah, accurate, careful, whatever. Um, because obviously, like just like the gunshot was gonna most likely be an inaccurate, although I'm sure plenty of people got better at it the more they did it, kind of thing. Um, but it basically is immediate but not well thought out, yeah, is what it is really kind of referring to.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

So that is shooting from the hip.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Um do you want to do one more?

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Yeah, all right. This one came from you a while ago. I stopped writing them down. I gotta we haven't done these in so long. I just I haven't really said it. So stir the pot. You told me that one.

SPEAKER_04 43:33

Stir the pot.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Yeah. It literally comes from the act of stirring a pot of food while cooking.

SPEAKER_04 43:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

I mean, like, you know, double double toil and trouble kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 43:43

Nowadays I think of it as like you're adding uh here's another idiom, adding fuel to the fire. You're making a situation worse.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Yeah, correct. Um so when you stir a pot, everything inside gets mixed up and agitated. You know, you're literally putting it all together, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Uh, because ingredients that had settled started moving again. Um, basically with that image, the phrase became a metaphor for causing trouble, drama, conflict, by uh bringing things up that people re you know, that get people reacting again. Yeah. So agitate, yeah. Yeah, you agitate them. Yeah. So um I get that.

SPEAKER_04 44:17

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Yeah. So um by the 19th century, English speakers were using stir the pot to describe someone who deliberately provokes discussion, gossip, or arguments, especially when things had been calm before.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

So you get, you know, like say we had came, we're just sitting here having a normal conversation, and Xavier's like, You guys suck. It's like he's stirring the pot, like trying to get you to react. React, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:41

Basically, also Xavier would never say that.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

He would never say that. He's he's a sweet, sweet boy. Um, but yeah, yeah, you're intentionally mixing things up, just trying to uh get a reaction, get get get a rise, get a rise, all that. So but basically there's another one too, so it's intentionally to cause drama, conflict, or renewed discussion. It says I think it's more just for conflict and drama.

SPEAKER_04 45:07

Yeah, that's how I have used it as and heard it as.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

So there's obviously stir the pot, but there also is stirring the pot, which is pretty much the same thing. Oh, but it often implies someone is doing it just for entertainment or mischief when you're stirring the pot. Like that they get a kick out of it, they get a rise out of it, whatever. Um, and so they it actually said that's why it shows up a lot in reality TV and and online arguments, is because someone just wants a rise out of somebody, yeah, especially on online arguments. I found that very funny because basically it's um you know, someone will comment something, whether they mean it or not, they do it on purpose.

SPEAKER_04 45:50

It's like the rage bait videos, they do it simply to get a rise out of people.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Correct. They do it to an engagement, yeah, and to get clicks and views and all that shit. Yeah, yeah. And it's people need to knock that shit off. Yeah, just say it. Yeah, but so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:06

That's awesome. I like those.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

A couple idioms that we haven't done in uh in a hot second.

SPEAKER_04 46:11

So you know what another one I thought of? It's because we were talking about kind of liquids with the pot.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

Uh spill the tea. That's a modern idiom. Didn't we do that one? Didn't we do that one?

unknown 46:24

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

So yeah, I thought we did because I remember talking about spill spill the beans and spill the tea. Um do you remember that? I'll have to double check. I guess I don't re well no, and I I when I said those words, I instantly regret it though.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

You're like Nikate doesn't remember.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Nikate clearly doesn't remember, but um, because spill the tea. I think that's your new name. Unpolished buffoon. And I'm Bradley. Anyways. Welp.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

All right, buffoons. That's it for today's episode.

Where To Find The Show

SPEAKER_04 46:58

Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time. Feeling hungry for more buffoonery? Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Hit us up on social media. We're History Buffoons Podcast on YouTube, X, Instagram, and Facebook. You can also email us at historybuffoonspodcast at gmail.com. We are Bradley and Kate, music by Corey Akers.

SPEAKER_04 47:24

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn those notifications on to stay in the loop.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us.

SPEAKER_04 47:32

Remember, the buffoonery never stops.