"Help Us Brucie!": The 1989 Hillsborough Disaster Part One

Ninety-six people die at a football match, and the first story many hear is that the fans caused it. That tension between what happened and what powerful people claimed happened is why we finally sat down to tell Part 1 of the Hillsborough disaster with the care it deserves.

We start with the Hicks family, lifelong Liverpool FC supporters traveling to Hillsborough Stadium in Sheffield for the 1989 FA Cup semifinal. Through Jenny Hicks’s account, we track the day’s key failures in crowd management and stadium safety: congestion at the Leppings Lane turnstiles, the decision to open Gate C, and a narrow tunnel that funnels thousands into already-packed pens behind the goal. We break down how a crowd crush works, why “stop pushing” doesn’t help when movement becomes involuntary, and how metal fencing and crush barriers turn pressure into tragedy.

From there, we follow the aftermath that families had to survive: delayed and disorganized emergency response, loved ones searching without information, and the dehumanizing treatment that compounds grief. Then we confront the media and institutional backlash, including The Sun’s infamous “THE TRUTH” headline and the attempt to frame Liverpool supporters as drunk and violent. Finally, we walk through the Taylor Report, what it proves about South Yorkshire Police and stadium design failures, and why legal accountability still doesn’t arrive, setting up the long fight ahead as inquests narrow the story and return an “accidental death” verdict.

If you care about public inquiry, justice for Hillsborough, and how crowd control failures become national trauma, press play, then subscribe, share the episode, and leave us a review so more listeners can find the story.

Transcript

Welcome And Baseball Banter

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Oh, hey there.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Oh, hey there.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

How's it going today?

SPEAKER_03 0:19

I'm good. How are you, Mr. Wisconsin Knight? Uh, that's me. I'm born and bred. I know you are. What's up, Cornhusker?

SPEAKER_00 0:27

This is the History Buffons.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

I'm Kate.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

I'm Bradley.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

And I am a transplant. That's how I that's how I tell people. They're like, oh, where are you from? And I'm like, ah, I'm a transplant. I say it just like that. It's a little like an old Timey 30s movie.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Yeah, and you. I'm a transplant. You she. Yeah, they they uprooted the corn and planted it somewhere else. We sure did. No. I mean, come on. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:56

I am well. How are you today?

SPEAKER_03 0:58

I'm good. I still got a lingering cough. So you'll hear that like just now. Excuse me.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

On point. Yep. I am excited for Brewers Baseball. Brewers baseball today.

unknown 1:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Uh, so the this is game two of the season. Um, we both like baseball, watch it. So we're gonna record and then we're gonna watch watch a game. Um and root for the brewers.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Yeah, we are.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

They kick some AS on Thursday, so that was nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Um, I think I need to like strap Nathan to a chair.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

He's not gonna like it. Sarah likes baseball, she just doesn't follow it at all. Yeah, she'll watch it when I have it on, yeah, but she doesn't really care, more or less. Um, I really don't think Nathan's gonna care at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

So I told Nathan yesterday that I was gonna be wearing, or that I was uh that watching a watch a oh my god, stroke. We're gonna watch it tonight. And he goes, Ah, sports ball. I was like, Yep, that tracks.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

See, so again, you don't need to strap him down. That would be a waste of your energy. Just saying.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Anyway, so we're very excited for baseball season.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

I love baseball. I love watching it. I watch literally almost every game unless I have to go to bed and they play the West Coast and I can't watch it. But no, I I love baseball. It's half since I was a kid. My son wants to go to a couple games, so I'm hoping he's getting a little more into it. Vesper obviously doesn't care. Yeah. But maybe if they had K-pop Demon Hunter night, they should care. But I don't believe they do. Yeah. Um, yeah, so no, I'm I'm excited for baseball.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

So well, we are gonna talk a little bit about sports today, like just a very small amount. Okay. Um, it's actually kind of a Debbie Downer episode.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

So it tracks.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

I know.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I know. Like, am I gonna get mad Debbie Downer or is it just sad?

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Yeah, you might. Yeah. Mad, sad, all the things. Um, this is going to be about the 1989 Hillsboro disaster. It is a soccer game or in England where this takes place. Football.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

With a U.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Yes. No, not with a U.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

F-U-T-O-B-O-L. Are you sure? Look it up. Are you sure it's a football? Look up the it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

What are we drinking today?

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Because I'm so excited for this one. So we got a variety pack to accommodate many different flavors. Um, it's from Oscar Blues, so I'm not having this one first, I'm just showing you. I have had this one, Dale's Pale Ale, delicious. Um, but we're gonna start off with their maslima. So it's uh salt and lime sort of lisa.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

It's from Longmont, Colorado.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah, I was gonna say Colorado is where they reside.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Um I have another Dale's. Oh, yeah. So what's the difference between that Dale's and this Dale?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Well, that's a light lager.

SPEAKER_03 3:56

A light dale?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Dale light? Dale light, or that this is a pale ale, that's a light lager. Okay. So and then I also have a a hazy blues juicy IPA.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

And I have Mama's Little Yellow Pills. And he's he's going in my uh surprise I'm drunk koozie.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

To keep it cold? To keep it cold, if I think that's not a bad idea.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

I should probably take my last one in there.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

So okay, I'm gonna open up Maslima because I'm excited for well.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

This is your style, and you like the ones with the salt and lime and stuff typically, so that's good. I like very subtle on the lime.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Yeah, the salt is more prevalent. Yeah. So yesterday I was going through Walmart and I saw a huge case of Alani lime drink of some sort. And that's an energy drink, right? Yeah, so I'm not a huge Alani fan, but like if they're on sale and Monster isn't, I'll actually get Milani.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

And I was like, I love lime. So I picked it up and it tastes just it's called lime slushy, and it is on point. Yeah, it is a lime slushie. You were told me about that. It was amazing. Delish. Oh my god. I felt like I was a little girl growing up.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

You still do.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

What?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Yeah. Okay, so because I don't think you've ever grown up. Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

Okay, how did you like it? You like it?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

It's a little more too salt forward.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

It is a little salt forward. Um not enough lime.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Could use a little more because like on that back end where it hits your tongue, it's like salt. Too bad. I mean, give Nathan one.

Setting The Scene At Hillsborough

SPEAKER_03 5:45

Oh, he won't like it with the lime. Just he's not he's not a citrus person. Yeah. But just tell him to wait till the back end of the he likes salt. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

He does like salt.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

So let's get into this.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Ah, Debbie Downer time.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Yeah. Um, so we're gonna start with um a family of four. It's the Hicks family.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Hicks family, okay. Where's Hillsborough?

SPEAKER_03 6:07

Hillsboro is about four hours north of London. Okay, and it's actually Hillsborough is the stadium. Oh, we are going to Sheffield, England. Sure. Sheffield, yep. I've heard of that. And then if you know where Liverpool is, which is on the coast, on the west coast, it's about two hours from there. Do you know who's from Liverpool? The Beatles. The Beatles. Mm-hmm. They didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Okay, just checking.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Yeah. Okay. So family of four living in London. It is Trevor Hicks, um, his wife, Jenny Hicks, and their two daughters, Sarah, who is 19, okay, and Vicky, who is 15.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

All right.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Get a purple ready. That's fine. So they were die hard Liverpool football club fans. Okay. England's football is like our football plus baseball combined. Yeah. And y'all just heard how we feel about baseball.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

So it's it's Europe's. It's yeah, it's Europe's UK or anything. It's Europe is so crazy about their football. Um I get it. That's their thing. I am not what you would call a fan of soccer, Sash Flip.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

I just don't know enough about it.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

I don't either. You know, it's like a lot of people just running around for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

Lots of running.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

And uh, it just makes me tired watching it. I I I don't know. I just it doesn't engage me like it does for them, but and that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

Yeah. But um Liverpool was in the Football Association Cups semifinal against Nottingham Forest.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Ooh.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Was uh Robin Hood on the team? I'm pretty sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Um, and uh what's the bear?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Little John. Little John, yeah. Little John was there too. Walking through the forest, I can't.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Yeah. Um yeah, and Nottingham was a little bit closer to Sheffield, England than Liverpool is. Okay. Okay. Just to kind of like visualize distance.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

So this is a huge game. It's a semifinal, and it takes place at the at the Hillsborough Football Stadium in Sheffield, England, England, which is mid-country.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

Okay. So this was neither town's stadium. Yeah. Okay. Um, and they planned for that. Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

I get that.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

So Sarah, who's 19, was home on Easter break in London. Oh. But she goes to university in Liverpool. Oh. So at the very end of Easter break, they decided let's go to the semifinal and then we'll just drive you to Liverpool, drop you off, and we'll just go home from there.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

So nice big plan.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Um, it's about two and a half hours away from Sheffield. So on April 15th, 1989, it was a bright and it was sunny day. Everybody was super happy. The Hicks family packed a picnic and set off from London, which is about a four-hour drive. Yeah. And they made their way to Leppings Lane, which was the street outside of their entry point into the stadium. Oh, okay. So you'll hear hear Leppings Lane a lot as like the focal point of this. Um, in prior years, police were accustomed to hooliganism. And to keep that to a minimum, they actually separated the fans. Oh, wow. So Liverpool fans went to enter at Leppings Lane. Oh, I see. And Nottingham Forest entered on the opposite side of the stadium. Sure. So unlike the previous year, which the Hicks also went to the semifinal, okay. Um, the streets around the stadium weren't cordoned off, nor were their tickets checked.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

That seems odd.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Seems odd.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

So through the Liverpool Football Club, Trevor, the dad, applied for their tickets through some kind of a ballot. Have you heard of that before?

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Not really.

SPEAKER_03 10:04

Same. Um, but for some reason, they were given three tickets for standing room only, which were very, very popular um area in the stadium.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

Um, because it was right behind the Liverpool goal.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Oh, gotcha.

Tickets Turnstiles And Leppings Lane

SPEAKER_03 10:19

And they had um one seated ticket in the north stand. Okay. Okay. So the Hicks got to Leppings Lane about an hour before start time. Jenny, the mother, thought it was odd that last year, and again this year, the Liverpool fans, which outnumbered the Nottingham Forest fans, were told to go to Leppings Lane to enter where there were fewer turnstiles. Now, these turnstiles are the really tall ones that you have to walk through, not the little No, no, no, right. Yeah, not the uh waist level ones. Yeah. There were 23 turnstiles at Leppings Lane and 60 at Nottingham Forest side.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Yeah, that seems weird.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

But I did so Jenny Hicks wrote a book. Oh, okay. And that's where I'm getting most of my information. Okay. And that is what she said. She was surprised at this situation. Sure. But in according to a later inquiry, Liverpool was allowed, nope, allocated just over 24,000 tickets. Yeah. And Nottingham Forest had um 30,000. So there were actually more Nottingham Forests. Gotcha. So they got the side with the with more turnstiles. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Like sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Make sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Um, so it just made sense, right? Now the kicker is although there are 23 turnstiles on the lepping ling side, congestion built heavily in this area, and a small number of them were all the only ones being consistently used.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Seven.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Oh my god. Why?

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

So three standing tickets for the Hicks. One seated. So Jenny was gonna give her husband Trevor the seated ticket, thinking he'd have a better time up there. Okay. Um, in the stands, and then Jenny would just be with her girls. The standing room terrace had shallow steps um so that the people behind her were just slightly taller so they could view over, right? Like a like an auditorium seating arrangement kind of thing. Makes sense. Yeah. But Sarah and Vicky demanded that Jenny take the seat in the Northstand because she would have a better view as she was so short.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

Yeah. Okay. They're like, Mom, you're not gonna see very well. Go up and sit in the stands. And that won't be with that. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. So, um, sweet girls, like, yeah, yeah. Jenny agreed, and she said her goodbyes to the girls and her husband. And as she's walking away, Jenny hears her youngest Vicky call after her. So Jenny turns around and Vicky comes running after her, gave her one more big hug and one big kiss. And that was the last time Jenny saw her girls alive.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

That was really sad.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Yeah. So have you heard this story at all? Not at all. Um, Jenny took her seat in the North Stand by 1.50 p.m.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

The game would start at 3.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Oh. So she had to sit there for an hour and 10 minutes before the game? Well, if the game went on like it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Yeah, but I don't know. We football, I feel like you go early on too, and our football, American football.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah. Um there's been plenty of times where I get there right at the you know, we have signed seats.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

Fair.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

I don't need to like get there. Gotta get a good seat here. Right, right. That's it. So it's like, even if we get there, we're down in the concourse. Yeah. Getting a beer or a sandwich or whatever the fuck we do. Yeah. I mean, okay. Anyways.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

Yeah. So by even by this time, 150, when she has her seat. I have to burp again.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Burping all the time, I tell you.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

Um, Jenny looked over from her seat at Leppings Lane entry point and noticed that the pens that fans were pouring into, there were six altogether behind the goalie. Okay. And pens three and four were directly behind the goal. So Jenny noticed that the ends, um, pens one and two and five and six were pretty sparse with people, but three and four were getting really filled up. So these pens were basically metal cages. Right. So you've got um metal fencing on the sides of the pens, on the front, and then there was basically only one entry and exit, and that was behind you. Sure. Okay. So um these fences were also separating the other pens. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Okay. So players were warming up on the field at about 2:30. The goalie actually started noticing the pens were looking crowded, and he wondered why they weren't scattering to like the other pens. And Jenny said that the Nottingham Forest side pens looked completely normal. Everyone was spread around as she would normally have seen as she was there the the year before, and she's been to lots of football games, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Did they print the tickets wrong?

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Oh, I will tell you. So the middle was just filling up and up and up with people. And what Jenny didn't know at the time was that the newly appointed match commander chief superintendent, that's quite the title.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

No kidding.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

David Duckinfield.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

David Duckenfield.

Gate C Opens And The Tunnel Fills

SPEAKER_03 16:17

And when I mean newly appointed, I mean like weeks.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Wow. Okay. Like up to maybe two or three months, just so he was pretty uh green and green.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

Okay. Um, Duckinfield ordered exit gate C open at Leppings Lane. It is technically an exit for people to, you know, filter out rather quickly. Um, but there are about two to five thousand fans um still outside the gate and the turnstiles that still had to make it into this state the stadium. And the game was about to start. So it was briefly discussed that the game be pushed back about 15 minutes to allow these fans to get in in an organized, timely manner, but it was denied.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Oh fuck.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

So instead, Duckinfield ordered Gate C open.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

When you enter the landing or the concourse as you have called it, straight ahead is a narrow tunnel, and that leads directly to pens three and four. Oh. So once you get into this tunnel, yeah, it narrows and it slopes downward and directs everything into like a single uninterrupted line.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Okay. Now there were no clear signs, no voices redirecting people elsewhere, nothing to suggest that the path ahead leads to a space that has already been filled. Right. So the crowd continues forward. Oh boy. The pat and the crowds do what they do, they follow that path in front of them. Yep. Especially when that path is the easiest and the most visible, and the one that requires the least thought in a moment of thinking, they have other entrances to the other pens. The signage is horrific.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

It sounds that way if they can't even figure out any way to direct these people elsewhere. Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

Yeah. So the people in the pens behind them, more people are entering. Yeah. And space is already gone. Between those two things, the pressure from behind and nowhere left to go up front, and the situation begins to shift from something super uncomfortable to something that cannot correct itself anymore.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Right. Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

So an additional 20, 2,000, excuse me, an additional 2,000, some odd fans pushed through to pens three and four.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

Those pens can hold about 2,200 to 2,500 people.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Per pen.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

And yes. Yes, per pen. And they were already maxed out.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

They were maxed.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

It's now three o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Game's gonna start.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

The game officially started. One of the first attempts at scoring, the player kicked the ball and it hit the goalpost post. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Bounced up into one of the empty. No.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

No, no, it just hit the goal post, so super close to the goal. Yep, yep, yep. And that made the crowd go wild. And because people in pens three and four in the back couldn't see.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

They pushed forward.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

They pushed into the pens even further.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Oh fucking hell.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

Zero room. People were getting crushed against the front of these metal pens.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Well, right.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

There was no way out for these people except for that tunnel behind them.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

So you couldn't even like climb over it?

SPEAKER_03 19:52

You could.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

But there was no room to even breathe. I get that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Like, does it did you ever come across how high the front of the gate was?

SPEAKER_03 20:03

No, but people did climb.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Well, I'd hope after a while.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Yes. So for the people at the front of the cages, their breathing starts to change.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

Each inhale feels restricted, smaller than the last, and as though the space needed for it was being taken away. Their attempt to lift their arms to embrace or to open their chests was very limited. Every direction is filled. Every attempt to adjust was just absorbed by the bodies around them.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

So you raise up your arm and all of a sudden there's somebody right there.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

And now you're now your arm's stuck up in the air. Yeah. Yeah.

The Crush And The Six-Minute Match

SPEAKER_03 20:48

So behind them, the pressure continues to grow and it's constant. Okay. And of course, the fence of the of the pens do not move.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Well, no, they're designed to well be stationary. So I mean, there's literally nowhere to go because you're at a fucking wall.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

You're at a wall.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

So it fixes them in place and turning the pressure from behind into something more concentrated, something that presses forward. They are being moved unwillingly by the pressure of this crowd.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

And when you have nowhere else to go, your body starts compressing.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

So at first, the crowd around them is only a little bit louder, then it becomes a little sharper. Voices start to become a little bit more panicked. And people are starting to ask others, you need to move back. Stop pushing. Then it becomes strained and urgent. And then the realization spreads that no one is choosing to push. No one has control over this movement. They are being Moved.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Right. That's fucking wild.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

There is no free will.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Hands start appearing around the fencing, like just grasping. Fingers are gripping the metal, searching for something to help give way. Um, soon there were attempts to climb, lifting themselves just enough to ease the pressure on their chest. To be able to breathe. Their feet trying to find a barrier to like for their footing. Others can't move at all. And they are held in place, pinned between the fence and the weight behind them. Their bodies are absorbing this force that can't be redirected or escaped. Right. And breathing is no longer automatic now. Right. It's a constant thought. Yeah. It requires focus and they try to push back, but nothing shifts.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Well, not against that many people. There's just no way. Even if you have a good section of that front portion of the people pushing, the pressure, because I'm assuming it's downhill.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Yes, it's downhill.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

So how are they gonna push all that back up? There's no fucking way. They're screwed.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

The bodies behind continue to move forward, filling every gap, pressing inward. There is no way forward, and there is no way back anymore. Fans are starting to climb the front fence to get over. If they made it, granted, the game is on, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

If they made it over, they were still incredibly respectful of the game.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

They did not go on to the pitch. Well, right. They were very respectful. It wasn't a pitch takeover. Okay. No, it was like, I need to live. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Fucking hell. Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing. Like, if and I don't know if this comes up, but you start seeing these people climb over so early in the fucking game. Someone should look into this.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

The problem is the police think that it's unruly behavior.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

So they start shooting?

SPEAKER_03 24:09

No, thankfully.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

God, that would that would be fucking depressing. No, they don't, thankfully. Oh, wait, it's England. They don't have guns.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

So supporters in the upper terrace were starting to lean over and grab the people from pens three and four and pulling them up into the stands. That's wild.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Yeah. It was that close they could do that?

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

Or like if one stood on someone else, sure. They could reach.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

They could reach. Wow. That's fucked up.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

I saw one interview and I didn't write down any information, so this is all from Kate's poor memory.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Oh boy, we should move on.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Um, this guy said he's he's middle-aged by now, and he said that he was next to a man. They didn't exchange any words, they just looked at each other in horror. And the other man, this guy was a teenager, the other man lifted him up into the upper terrace. And the guy says, I have so much guilt over that because I don't know who he was. He saved my life, he if he lived, if he died, he saved my life. Wow. And he has been with me every single day ever since. I have no doubt. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's that would be fuck to live with the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

And and no words were exchanged. He just like get up on me. So you just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

You can't even thank him.

unknown 25:33

No.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

You know, it's and that would be a huge thing for him, too. But the fact you can't even thank him, and the other fact you don't even know if he fucking survived this stupid ass fucked up thing.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Whoa. Miss Coze. Continue, please.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

So meanwhile, police, what few they had, it seemed, yeah, kept pushing people back who were attempting to jump the fence because they thought they were unruly, they were hooligans, they've had hooligans before, so these gotta be hooligans now.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Every time you say hooligans, I just think of uh Eurotrip.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Jenny, back in the stands, overheard a man running up near her to someone who was sitting nearby, and he tells his friend, quote, there are dead people down there. End quote.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Wow. That's fucked up.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

So she is watching this, these pens just it's all it's almost like a solid blob of color at this point. There's no individual people at this point.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Yeah, it's hard to discern different.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

And then all of a sudden she hears there are people dying that down there.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Apparently, as early as 240, game started at 3. People are already dead. People were saying, quote, no more room, no more room. They were yelling that at 2.40. The authority heard it, didn't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

What a pile of shit.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

Fans were yelling at the goalkeeper once the game started, and they said, quote, help us, Brucie, help us. There are people dying in here. Wow. The goalie yelled to a policeman who finally ran out onto the pitch, and the game was officially stopped at 3.06.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

So for almost a half an hour, people were getting crushed.

SPEAKER_03 27:29

Yes, and the game was only on for six minutes.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Yeah. Wow. That's fucked up.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Okay.

Chaos On The Pitch And Delayed Help

SPEAKER_03 27:39

More people started jumping the fence, and now they were trailing onto the field. Some would collapse. Others started calling out for help. Others joined in to help with people doing CPR. Um, from the north stand, Jenny could not see her family.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

And remember that call to open Gate C that came from Duckenfield?

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

It was because there was a crush that was happening at the turnstiles as well. Oh, really? Because there were so many people out there, and everybody was bottlenecking somehow to these seven turnstiles. The others were operational. But for some reason for some reason, these seven turnstiles were the bottleneck, and people were getting crushed there. So just open the gate. But refused to close off or didn't think about closing off Closing off the tunnel to pens three and four.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

So now that people are getting out, more are just coming in? Yes. Fucking stupid ass fucks. Really? Wow.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Finally, the gates at the front of the pens were opened.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Oh, so there are gates at the front?

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

And they couldn't be opened. But finally, they opened them.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Well, fucking. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Of course, too little, too late.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

They had been in a fatal crush since 240, 245. Yeah. Inside the gates, there are metal crush barriers that they put in place. They looked like waist-high barriers that you couldn't like go forward, you know, okay. To kind of help separate. Those were broken.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Weird.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

Metal, the pressure of all the people broke this metal barrier.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

That's wild.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

People standing behind it and people standing in front of it were either hurt or killed.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Sarah and Vicky Hicks were in front of one of those barriers. Oh. People were stumbling out of the pens, laying down on the pitch, performing CPR, people everywhere. 96 men, women, and children lost their lives that day.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

That is a lot of fucking people to lose at a goddamn football match.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

The youngest was 10 and the oldest was 67.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Jesus Christ. So did wait. Just the two daughters died, not the father? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Yes. So what's so horrifically and tragically crazy during this part when people are coming out onto the field and collapsing? The Nottingham Forest fans were chanting and singing for their team. I saw a video where all these people are on the pitch and they're just singing because they have no idea what is actually happening. They don't know there's a tragedy happening. Of course. And it's so eerie because you know it's happening, but they're singing. It's so bizarre. That's strange. Yeah. Yeah, you can know.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

How would they have known? No. So I mean, you can't fault them without getting any any fucking information.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

So no, you can't fault them at all, but just the behindsight is just, oh my God, that's so creepy and crazy. That is wild. Yeah. 44 ambulances were waiting outside the match. Um, they were all from different districts. You know, a lot of we we do that in regular baseball games and football games. Yeah. Yep. Um, there were 80 trained medical personnel there as well. Despite dozens being nearby, the emergency response was delayed and poorly coordinated. And only one ambulance reached the pitch, quote, in time. Wow. So they have to wait for orders to move in.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Which I get, but what the fuck, people? Jesus Christ. I hope see, and it's sad that like people like the the daughters die, but yet the fucktards who don't who are making the decisions for all these people. Yeah, they're fine.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Oh, they're up in the control box.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Well, of course, or some fucking whatever, but that's horse shit.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Anyways.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Yeah. So several failures were happening at once. Police did not immediately declare a major incident was happening. Um, the early assumption was crowd disorder, not medical emergency, and there were no clear instruction or route for the ambulances to enter. Sure. So with only one ambulance making it onto the pitch, we find out later that when it left the grounds, Trevor and Vicky were the ones that were inside.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

Mm-hmm. And I'll speak more about that a little later.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Okay.

Jenny Searches And Gets Moved Around

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Over the loudspeaker, the Liverpool manager, Kenny Dagglish, who was very respected, told everyone to stay in this, uh, everybody in the stands to stay in their seat to avoid anyone else getting hurt or getting in the way. And Jenny, listen, she stayed put. Even though she's seeing this chaos and wondering where her family is, she stayed put. And eventually the game was abandoned, thankfully. Um, and people were allowed to leave their seats. The Hicks family had already negotiated a rendezvous point after the game. Um, so that's where Jenny went first, was that that rendezvous point? Which makes sense. Yeah. She waited there as the crowds began to thin, and she never saw Trevor, Sarah, or Vicky. Jenny saw some police nearby, and this whole rigmarole with Jenny, it's asinine.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

It's asinine, what they have put her through. Oh dear. They directed her back up to the Northstand where she came from because they were setting up some kind of help station up there. Okay. So she goes back up there. What? She goes back up there, and there was a huge line of people waiting to hear about their loved ones at this new help station. Once Jenny is able to talk to someone, they said, quote, this is her quote, quote, oh, go back to the car, love. They'll have gone back to the car, end quote. Now.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

What the fuck is wrong with people?

SPEAKER_03 34:27

This will be the first of many times that Jenny Hicks was called love.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

And it's like, it's like on our on the American side being called oh hun. Or dear, yeah. Deer. Yeah. Yeah. It's just icky.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Well, I know, it's like, good day, love, you know, all that.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

But it's like, oh, honey. Like, bless your heart. Like, it's there, it's like there's like a negative connotation to it.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

No, I get that.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

Or I hate it when like young people tell old people, oh hun. It's like, no, no, it's respect your elders.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Yeah, but nobody does.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

So she was, she hated being called loved, and she got that many, many times.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

So she did as she was told. She went to her car. Trevor had the money. Trevor had the car keys. Trevor had, you know, whatever. She didn't have anything. So she's waiting outside by her car, one of the only cars left in the park in the parking lot. She also wasn't from Sheffield. She was in a place she didn't know. Right. So she waited there for about 10 minutes when a police car drove up to her, and without saying hello, anything, they rolled down the window and said, get in the car. Okay. So she got in the car. They're police. Okay. They drove her to a police station. Oh, fuck. Which they had set up as a headquarters for the disaster.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Okay. So not shady. It was just weird. Weird. Yeah. Yeah. What happened next is just irritating to hear. It's exhausting to hear. But they moved her from the police station to across the street to a boys club, which they overtook for their relatives, then back to the police station to give detailed descriptions of her family. And then they take her back over to the boys' club.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

It seems like unnecessary movement.

SPEAKER_03 36:29

It seems like they don't know what the hell they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Clearly.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

So when she is at the police station, she does give detailed descriptions of her family. Right. She keeps getting moved around. Um, but she ends at the boys club. Sure. So they're at the boys club. Finally, a social worker named Alan Dunkley came to help her.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

This is the first person who talked to her like a human? A human and helped her. Sure. And ever since then, I think they've remained some kind in contact like throughout the years. Yeah, that but tends to happen. Yeah, he was so helpful to her. He took her to the Northern General General Hospital in Sheffield to see her if her family was there.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

He was the first person to listen to her. She was so grateful. So he followed her into the hot into the hospital and basically stayed with her all night.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Well, especially because, again, she's not from there. She doesn't know where the fuck she is or what to do. She doesn't have her keys, nothing. She's got nothing.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

So it's nice that this person obviously stuck with her to see this through, kind of thing.

Hospital Trauma And Dehumanizing Treatment

SPEAKER_03 37:39

So they reached the nurse's desk and she asked if Trevor, Sarah, or Vicky was there. And the nurse said, We've had a Victoria. Okay. Had had a Victoria. Jenny and Alan were escorted to an empty treatment room. At first it was just Jenny, but she's like, No, I want somebody with me. So Alan came with. There was a nurse and a doctor in there, and the doctor was looking at a clipboard as if reading a script, didn't look at Jenny, and basically said, Vicki was dead.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

This next part chaps my ass.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

I love that saying.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Jenny asked to see Vicky, and the nurse replied, quote, No, I'm sorry. I'm afraid you can't do that. She has nothing to do with you now. She is the property of the coroner of South Yorkshire.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Yeah, go fuck yourself, nurse. She has nothing to do with you. Yeah, who the fuck? What the fuck are you, you piece of shit? That's my fucking daughter. Isn't that horrific to hear? Yeah. What if see you next Tuesday? Trying not to say that word on video anymore.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

Oh my god. What is wrong with her? And that's not the first time, or that's not the last time that it happens.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Oh my god. Yeah. She has nothing to do with you, love. Pretty much. Fucking hell.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

What the hell?

SPEAKER_03 39:19

Jenny was then informed that Trevor was here with Vicky. Remember, they were in the ambulance that she didn't know at the time.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

He is alive.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

And had gone to another hospital to see if Sarah was there. Okay. No cell phones at the time.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Obviously, 1989.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Yeah. So of course him and Jenny can't talk, right? No. So the nurse actually called over to the hospital, frowned Trevor, and told him to come back because his wife's here. Okay. Okay. And he was with a woman. And Jenny thought at first, this is Sarah. Oh my God, this is Sarah. No, it was another sh social room.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I was gonna say it's like the female equivalent of Alan. It was.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

So Trevor had a good little support person as well, which is which is super great. Yeah, but fuck it. But it wasn't Sarah.

unknown 40:01

That's sad.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Trevor said that he searched for the girls with all his might on the pitch. I don't remember Jenny mentioning this in the book, but I heard in other articles that Trevor actually left the pens at one point to buy a program, and that's what saved his life.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Oh fuck. Really? Yeah. I mean, okay. You look at it two ways. Good for him, lucky on him, but now he has to live with the death of his daughters.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

That he left there.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

And he's gonna have that guilt that he's like, well, I left my daughters and they're dead because I left them. Would he have died too? Probably. Maybe. Good chance. Yeah. You don't know. You can't say definitively that he would have. But could you imagine living with that? Like I went to if that's what it was. Yeah. I went, you know, allegedly go get a program and came back, and my daughters are crushed. Fucking hell, man.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Oh, but it gets worse for him. I'm sure it does. Um, Travers did find his girls on the pitch lying side by side.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

And he tried to revive them both somehow. Um, a fan who came up to him was actually a doctor, he came up and started CPR on Sarah while Trevor worked on Vicky. When that ambulance came onto the pitch, Vicky was carried to it. In the seconds that it took to go back to Sarah, the ambulance was full. And he was then faced with the impossible choice of going to the hospital with Vicky or staying with Sarah. Fuck. Thinking Sarah was gonna be in the next ambulance that didn't come, he went with Vicky.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

That's sad.

SPEAKER_03 41:49

Yeah. Out of the seven females who died that day, two of them were the Hicks daughters. But only Vicky made it to the hospital. Out of the seven women, only Vicky made it to the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

Trevor said the doctors tried for 20 minutes to resuscitate Vicky before calling time of death. And still the nurses refused to let them see Vicky. The nurse said again, this time to both of them, as they're together now, quote, she is absolutely nothing to do with you two anymore.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

I don't understand that thought process from this nurse because even okay, yeah, she died in their hospital, but we get to have a fucking funeral, you dumb piece of shit. What the fuck do you mean? We she has nothing to do with us anymore. You don't get to claim property. What are you just gonna go sell her body for like fucking cadaver experiments and shit? What the fuck are you saying?

SPEAKER_03 42:49

Well, the truth was Vicky wasn't in the hospital anymore.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Where was she?

SPEAKER_03 42:54

They sent her back to the stadium.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Why?

SPEAKER_03 42:58

Quote, the coroner ordered it so that all the dead could be together.

unknown 43:02

End quote.

SPEAKER_03 43:06

So the stadium has some type of gymnasi gymnasium. Sure. And they set that up at the time of a like makeshift mortuary.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

And that's where Sarah had been.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:19

While Vicki was in the hospital, Sarah was in this gymnasium with she was already past as well. So they sent Vicky back to the stadium. So the nurses could have just said she's not here anymore.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

We sent her to the stadium.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

Not she has nothing to do with you.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

I'm so I really hope that person had some pain in her life. Because fuck her. Yeah. I mean, why would you word it that way, even if it's I know I I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

Why would you word it that way? That is horrific sounding.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

It's terrible sounding.

SPEAKER_03 44:03

I'm gonna chug a little.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

I'm just gonna chug a little. So okay. Salt. Since we're taking a mini chug break, apparently. I had the hazy afterwards. Oh, are you done already with it? That salt fucked it up. Oh no! I should not have drank that one first. All I can taste is salt in my mouth. Okay, so we need some like so I'm even trying to like balance it out with a coors banquet, but I'm already halfway through my Dales. Oh no. I will never have a Maslima again. So salty. Or at all.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

I mean, I really like it.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

I'm glad you do. You can have the third one because I didn't think about that. Yeah, it's just it's completely taking over. Like all I can taste on my my tongue is salt.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

How can we like refresh your palate?

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Brush my teeth. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

What's the um the sorbet that they serve in between courses like on pretty women?

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Oh shit, what is that?

SPEAKER_03 45:01

Is that uh it looks minty, but I doubt it's mint.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

Yeah, I I um I don't know. I know what you're talking about, but anyways.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

Okay, so yeah, once back at this stadium, they were still denied in seeing Vicky. They didn't know Sarah was there at the time.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Of course, why would they have?

Photos Identification And Police Interrogation

SPEAKER_03 45:20

The victims were in the gymnasium, as I said, and with Trevor, Trevor getting more and more angry because he can't see his daughter, two additional policemen show up, but they escort Trevor and Jenny into the gym. Thank God. So the original two that said no, you can't see them, and then Trevor started getting mad, were your typical police officers. These next two were like Shaq's big brother. They were huge.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

So thinking that because this man is getting angry, we need some, yeah, we need some bigger more force.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

But these two giant men ended up being compassionate and be like, yes, let's take you to your daughters. Yes. Or at the time, daughter, babies. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

So they were taken to a board full of photos.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_03 46:11

Yes. They recognized Vicky right away being at the hospital. She was all cleaned up. Um, so it took a little while, but they did finally see Sarah's photo. Sure. Um, so both girls were lost in this tragedy.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

That's so sad.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

So after confirming their pictures and their bodies, um, they were questioned. And Jenny actually said in her book, no, we were interrogated.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Why?

SPEAKER_03 46:39

Many of the police's questions were about alcohol. Are you fucking serious? Did you have any at the game? Did you stop to buy some on the way to the game? Did you have any with your picnic?

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Why why would their thought process go that route?

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Oh, I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Oh god.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

That that reason will come to light very soon.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

Eventually. Yeah. Exhausted, mourning. Trevor and Jenny went home alone. Four hours to London.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

How could you Jesus? Could you imagine that fucking drive?

unknown 47:16

Yeah.

The Sun Prints A Lie

SPEAKER_00 47:18

I mean, holy shit, that would just be. I don't know what I'd do with myself at that point. Yeah. You know, me having two kids as well.

SPEAKER_03 47:26

Jenny says she kept wanting to look in the backseat. Of course she did.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

If I was driving, I'd keep checking the fucking rearview mirror to see if they're there.

SPEAKER_03 47:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Fucking hell. I could couldn't even fathom. Yeah. Could not even fathom doing that.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

So four days after after the disaster, there was a headline that came out on the front of a newspaper called The Sun. Have you heard of The Sun? Okay. It said, quote, the truth.

unknown 47:53

Fucking hell.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

The article claimed, and this is where the interrogation comes in, comes back. The article claimed that Liverpool fans were drunk, they'd urinated on the dead, picked their pockets, and robbed them, among other atrocities, which I'm not going to say. They were obviously trying to shift the blame from the stadium or the police, the higher-ups, to the people. To the fans.

unknown 48:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 48:24

The idea that the fans were to blame came from David Duckenfield.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

And that was the dumb shit who had just been in place.

SPEAKER_03 48:34

I literally wrote the Chief Commander Bullshit Whatever. That's what I wrote.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

Chief Commander Bullshit Whatever.

SPEAKER_03 48:42

I think that's our title. And he was the one that told key people to open Gate C. Yeah. But sorry, sorry, let me retract that. He told key people that would go to the papers that Gate C was forced open by the fans.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

What a piece of shit. So he's just trying to save his own ass. 100% what he's doing. I I I know this was, you know, 37 years ago. I hope he never mind, I won't say that out loud. I hope bad things for him.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

So on Monday, April 24th, 1989, it was Sarah and Vicky's funeral, and then they were b buried on the 25th.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

It's my dad's birthday.

SPEAKER_03 49:32

Yeah. And then on the 29th of April, the Liverpool families had like a mass funeral up in Sheffield or if it was actually Liverpool. It might have been Liverpool.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 49:46

But some 3,000 people were in attendance along with Trevor and Jenny. The Liverpool football team, Margaret Thatcher, other politicians, and the Duke and Duchess of Kent on behalf of the royal family were all there. Wow. The goalie who helped stop the game, his name was Bruce Grubbelar.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

Help us, Brucey.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

Sorry if I didn't pronounce his name correctly. It's okay. He ended up giving a reading.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

And after the service, four members of each family were invited to meet with the dignitaries. And around this time, it was announced that there was going to be an inquiry into the disaster starting in May, led by Lord Justice Taylor. Naturally, after reading what happened in the sun, Trevor and Jenny were very skeptical.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Right.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

When Thatcher, this one also chops my ass. When Thatcher made her way to Trevor and Jenny, Jenny asked her, quote, Mrs. Thatcher, can you please ensure that the Taylor inquiry won't be a whitewash? Thatcher paused, put her arm around Jenny's shoulder, and said, quote, again, this is Jenny's quote. Yes. My dear, a mother's place is in the kitchen filling the fridge with food for Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Okay. Fuck you, Margaret Thatcher, if that is a true quote. What the fuck does that mean? And what the fuck does it mean at this fucking time?

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Jenny was like, thanks for bringing up Christmas that I'm not gonna be able to spend with my daughters this year.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Not only that, is fuck you. Fuck you, Prime Minister. Get the fuck in the kitchen, you piece of shit. You don't belong in a fucking man's job, you dumb bitch. Is basically what she's saying.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

How awful. Like all these people are just not, they're clueless.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Uh what is it? Is it from Austin Powers? I believe. Yeah, I think so. It's like where he's trying to not get like aroused. He's like, Mark, Margaret Thatcher naked on a cold day. Or what I think it's Austin Powers, right? But fuck her. Yeah, not all. Like, why would she say that? That makes no fucking sense in this capacity of what you're dealing with.

SPEAKER_03 52:22

She's literally talking about an inquiry. Can we can we be assured that this inquiry is is real? Yeah, and not a bullshit farce. Oh, honey, you belong in the kitchen.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

But what I don't understand about that, this is coming from a fucking woman prime minister.

SPEAKER_03 52:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Where do you belong then, you dumb piece of shit? Yeah. Clearly not where you are because you're given that fucking advice? Go fuck yourself, you fucking piece of shit. Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

I knew he was gonna get a ride out of the story. Well, what the fuck? I'm gonna try opening the light logger and see if the salt taints it.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

It will. But no, I mean, how how can somebody uh in that position?

SPEAKER_03 53:08

Oh, that's okay for me.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Well, yeah, you know, salt. You like salt too. That's good though. I like it. I think for Christmas, I'm gonna get you and Nathan a salt lick. But it's like, well, how how could somebody in that position being a female? Well, maybe she wasn't really a female. I don't fucking know. Because she apparently says the dumbest shit.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

That is so dumb.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

And it's just what are you fucking saying here? You belong in the kitchen? My fucking daughters just died. We were fucking what's the word I'm looking for? Uh shit on in the press. Yes, that it was all of our faults, everybody who was involved in that from Liverpool. Yes. And they literally said they did unspeakable things to the dead bodies. What the fuck is that nonsense?

SPEAKER_03 53:54

And fun fact on the sun.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

To this day in Liverpool, the sun is boycotted. Good. Because of that. Good.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

Fuck them.

SPEAKER_03 54:03

Yeah.

Taylor Report And Stadium Safety Reform

SPEAKER_00 54:04

Uh media, am I right?

unknown 54:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:07

Fucking biased bullshit piece of crap.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

So the Taylor report comes out by January of 1990.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

So eight months later, roughly.

SPEAKER_03 54:20

The report didn't just look at what happened that day. Uh, the report is also going to be in our show notes.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Cool.

SPEAKER_03 54:26

Um, it pulled the whole system apart piece by piece. As it should. It laid out how the disaster wasn't caused by rowdy fans, but by a chain of failures. Poor crowd control, too few turnstiles, the decision to open gate C without redirecting people. So it wasn't just about opening the gate, it was about closing off the tunnel. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and the stadium design that trapped people in these pens. Yeah. So it also called out how long it took to recognize it as a medical emergency, not just a crowd issue.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

An unruly fan crowd issue, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:09

And then it went further, recommending major changes like removing fences and converting stadiums to all cedars that would permanently reshape football in England.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

And how how it's yeah, yeah, viewed, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

So basically, it placed blame with evidence and for the first time put responsibility where it actually belonged onto the authorities.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Was it Duckenfeld? Do you get fucked? Duckenfield. Duckenfield.

SPEAKER_03 55:40

No.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Fuck that guy.

SPEAKER_03 55:43

Trevor and Jenny, who were at the inquiry and were um witnesses, like they had to actually like speak. Good. Became optimistic. This is exactly what needed to happen. Yeah. Um, they were optimistic that prosecution of the police and the other higher-ups were surely imminent. Instead, because while the report established what had gone wrong, it did not assign criminal responsibility and it did not bring accountability in the way that they needed. It explained the disaster, but not how to resolve it. There were suggestions made, but they have to agree and do these suggestions, right? Oh dear. So fabulous report. It just didn't do enough.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Okay.

No Criminal Charges And A Support Group

SPEAKER_03 56:32

Then in the August of 1990 came another blow.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

Cat feet.

SPEAKER_03 56:38

There's like a little cat pall underneath it.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Hey, Oliver. I see part of his either face or tail, but either way.

SPEAKER_03 56:45

He's so cute.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

He's so cute.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

The Crown Prosecution Service announced that there would be no criminal charges brought in connection with the disaster. Despite the findings of the Taylor report, despite the scale of what had happened, the conclusion was that there was insufficient evidence to meet the threshold required for prosecution.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

That's just saving people's asses, is all that's saying. And that's that's what's wrong with this fucking world. 1989, 90, whatever. Today doesn't fucking matter. They will find a fucking loophole, a way around just to be like, nah, no, no blame can be put on these people. That's what's fucking wrong with this world. And the other side on the flip side of it, this world is sue happy. Like the person who sued because my my McDonald's coffee was too hot. You got a fucking coffee. Yeah, it's hot beverage. So I get it. They're trying to like balance that. There's no balance. It's gonna be fucked either way, and that's horseshit.

SPEAKER_03 57:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

So can they sue them? Do a civil suit or something like that?

SPEAKER_03 57:51

So they do end up doing stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

Good.

SPEAKER_03 57:53

I will continue.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

That's fine.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

So all the families are in agreement that this at this time they needed a support group for each other, and they needed justice after this damning son article.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:06

Trevor was voted chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

This group. I don't remember if you mentioned this, and I apologize to interrupt. How old were Trevor at Jenny?

SPEAKER_03 58:20

I don't think I have that information.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Okay. I was I'm curious because daughters were 15 and 19. So there's a group of things. I'm guessing they're in their 30s. Late 30s, maybe. Maybe early 40s at this time. Yeah. Okay. Just we're not sure. No. But I was just I did not, I did not research that. I was I was just curious. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:39

Yeah. Um, the group became the central voice for the families, loved ones who refused to accept the current narrative.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

Right.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

They pushed to access documents, challenged legal decisions, and kept the issue in the public eye at a time that it might otherwise fade. Sure. Okay, so this group lasted a long time. I bet. By the autumn of 1990, something started to happen that at first looked like progress. And then not. In October, South Yorkshire police m set moved to settle civil claims brought by families of those who had been injured. Oh. And in doing that, they admitted negligence.

SPEAKER_00 59:22

Yeah, they did.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

They acknowledged that they failed in their duty to care for the people who came to that match. Yep. On paper, super big deal. It's an admission that something went wrong. Right. And responsibility existed. Yep. But the for the families wasn't quite the moment they needed.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

No, it's kind of like a shitty way out. So like, yeah, we'll just settle this up. Yeah, we're we're we're wrong. Uh, here's the money. However, how it like is perceived. Yeah. But it's like, no, no, no, no. We need fucking change on this. Yeah. And like actual fucking admittance to you fucked up.

Inquests Cutoff Time And Verdict

SPEAKER_03 1:00:00

But it's happening in a legal setting where liability can be accepted without fully explaining how or why things failed. Correct. There's no full public reckoning attached to it. Nope. There's no clear breakdown of responsibility. Nope. So what you end up with is an acknowledgement in one place and uncertainty in the public. Correct. So then on November 19th, 1990, the first inquests open in Sheffield, led by the coroner, Dr. Stefan Popper. This is supposed to be the process that establishes how people died, the official record, the part where the story gets written down in a way that's that's meant to last.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:48

Okay. Now, all or most of the people who passed died of compressional asphyxiation. Sure. Okay. Which makes total sense. Yes. But almost immediately the narrative shifts.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Oh fuck.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:04

South Yorkshire police return to the idea that the supporters themselves played a role, pointing to late arrivals, alcohol consumption.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

See, that's just that's just fucking grasping at straws and trying to place blame off of yourself. Okay, so what if they arrive late? You still you should still have a fucking goddamn pro uh process. Process, thank you. Jesus Christ. And getting these fans in their proper fucking areas. You could come three hours early, five minutes late. It doesn't fucking matter. Nope. So fuck off. Yep. Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:51

So it's a version of events that doesn't line up with what has already been laid out in that Taylor uh report. Yeah. It becomes part of what's can uh of what's being considered because it's a public declaration. Sure. So within the space of a few weeks, the family, the families heard two completely different things. First, there is an admission that there were failures, and now they are returned to the the blame game.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:18

Yeah, which again, Duckinfield and all those other dumb fucks are just trying to push it off of themselves, is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

So additional inquests move forward. In those proceedings, a decision was made that would come to define the next two decades for the fight for justice.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:38

Good lord.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:39

There was a cutoff time of 3.15 p.m. The reasoning behind that was roughly 15 minutes after the match began, those who had died had already suffered injuries that were beyond saving. So on that basis, the inquest would not consider evidence from after 315, effectively removing any examination that had happened during the rescue effort.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

But see, that's and that's horseshit. How could you save how can you do that? Because you're obviously they couldn't even get to these people yet. So that's just again, hey, how do we fuck everybody? We cut it off at this time, nothing after that fucking matters. Yeah. Go fuck yourself. Ooh, that was from the depths.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

That was from the depths. Excuse me. So what that meant in practice was that questions about the emergency response, about how quickly they arrived, about whether they could have done more, about whether lives might have been saved were no longer part of the official story.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

That's fucking horseshit.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:44

And everything behind it was treated as if it did not matter. So it took a complex, unfolding disaster and reduced it to a fixed moment in time, closing off the possibility that failures after the crush itself had contributed to the outcome. So it meant that they so it meant that even as they pushed for answers, there were entire parts of the story that they were not allowed to talk about. By early 1991, the inquest had been running for months. And on March 28th, two years after the disaster, that process reached its conclusion. Their jury returns a majority verdict of accidental death.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

Do you realize that was 35 years ago today?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:35

35 years ago today. That's gonna be the end of part one of the Hillsborough Disaster. Accidental death. Yeah.

Part One Ends And Where To Reach Us

SPEAKER_00 1:04:59

Because that's what I wanted. And it's because of your negligence and fucking running this fucking place properly, you're gonna tell me it was just accidental? Again. Uppers placing blame on lowers is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:15

Yeah, people in authority blaming people who are not authority. That was the first part of the Debbie Downer episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

Welp?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:30

I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:32

Alright, buffoons. That's it for today's episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

Buckle up because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you next time. Feeling hungry for more buffoonery? Or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:46

Hit us up on social media. We're History Buffoons Podcast on YouTube, X, Instagram, and Facebook. You can also email us at History Buffoons Podcast at gmail.com. We are Bradley and Kate, music by Corey.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

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SPEAKER_00 1:06:05

Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

Remember, the buffoonery never stops.