S2 Episode 11: Special Episode- Engardio Recall Voting Begins

Richie Greenberg and Erica Sandberg discuss early voting for the recall of Joel Engardio, San Francisco's District 4 elected city council member (supervisor), which starts today Aug 18th 2025.

We review the reasons for recall, the role of a San Francisco district supervisor, why Engardio is viewed as having betrayed his constituents and more. 

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Transcript

Engardio Recall Voting Begins Today Monday August 18th 2025

Richie Greenberg: Hey, this is Richie Greenberg here in San Francisco, and Really, San Francisco is the podcast episode with Erica Sandberg joining me today. Say hi, Erica.

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Erica Sandberg: Hello, everybody! Great to be here.

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Richie Greenberg: So, we are here… to talk today about, you know, today's Monday, it's the 18th of August, 2025,

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Richie Greenberg: And it's a special day. Besides the fact that it's a beautiful day, it's sunny, right? Erica, you were just outside today?

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Erica Sandberg: Yes, and it's incredible, finally.

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Richie Greenberg: This is what we pay the big bucks for to live in this city. But, you know what? Today is also the beginning of voting for the Joel and Guardio recall. Yes, it's upon us, we are now starting, we're in that window of opportunity for voters

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Richie Greenberg: residents, voters, of District 4, which is mostly the Sunset District, the west side of San Francisco.

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Richie Greenberg: To recall their supervisor, which is basically their city councilman.

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Richie Greenberg: And this has been a very, very contentious, very controversial, very heated, and very divided issue. It started…

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Richie Greenberg: Last year, mostly, when this proposition was put to the city to vote on whether or not a specific stretch of

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Richie Greenberg: a, north-south, very important north-south transportation corridor, the Upper Grade Highway, which connects the Richmond District, the Sunset District, and areas northwest of the city and southwest of the city. It's a beautiful drive, you have a convertible on a day like today would be fantastic to go right along the beach.

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Richie Greenberg: But, …

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Richie Greenberg: You know, there are powers out there, powers that be, that maybe we know about, maybe we don't know about, we don't know what's happening in back…

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Richie Greenberg: Backroom, closed-door, shenanigans. And so…

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Richie Greenberg: what happened, as people probably know, especially if you're listening here in San Francisco, is a majority of the people who voted yes to close that highway…

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Richie Greenberg: don't live in the area. They don't live here in the Richmond District, they don't live in the Sunset, they don't live on the west side. That would be mostly…

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Richie Greenberg: affected by the closure. So this caused an uproar after it passed, and that is what triggered, groups in the Sunset District, in District 4, to say, we don't like that Joel and Guardio did not listen

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Richie Greenberg: to them, that he did not listen to his constituents.

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Erica Sandberg: He heard, and he moved forward anyway.

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Richie Greenberg: Well, that's the problem, and that's… that's the topic of conversation today. It's just… it's beyond just the Upper Grade Highway.

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Richie Greenberg: We need to think about what is the purpose of a representative? What's supposed to be the purpose of an elected official representing his constituents, his or her constituents?

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Erica Sandberg: It's so important. You know, I'm gonna be Greta Thunberg for a moment and say, There we go. Oh!

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Richie Greenberg: How dare you? How dare you, yeah. So that's the problem, right?

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Erica Sandberg: How dare you? What did you do? And this is a punitive measure. This is not about, oh, we're gonna reopen the Great Highway again. This is…

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Erica Sandberg: a penalty. This is something… you lose your job because of this. Not, you know, it's… it's not looking for a remedy outside of a brand new supervisor. So, that really sends quite a message. You and I, we did a… we did a podcast about that before, which is, a…

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Erica Sandberg: An action like this is very American, it is a wonderful tool to use when

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Erica Sandberg: when situation has gone so wrong, so bad, so crazy, that the people just kept saying, you are not representing us the way we expected you to, the way we voted, what you promised. You have failed, and failed on something very important. Has he achieved other great things?

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Erica Sandberg: Sure, why not? I don't… I don't know. I'm sure there are some things that are very good.

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Richie Greenberg: I don't know about that, and you know, we get… I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I subscribe, a lot of us, we all subscribe to his newsletter as a supervisor, so even though he's not my supervisor, city councilman, we're in a different adjacent district, I look at what he does

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Richie Greenberg: says. I look in his newsletter, I look what he's bragging about, and it is so elementary school level

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Richie Greenberg: …

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Richie Greenberg: bragging rights, like, he got, speed bumps in a certain area, he helped to fill potholes, things like that. He motivated… but this is stuff that you'd think would happen in middle school and junior high, not in this level of,

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Richie Greenberg: Of civic, governance, you know?

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Erica Sandberg: And I'm sorry, it is the non-stop chitter-chatter about joy. I just want to puke.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. He uses that word, joy. Things bring joy, this will be….

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Erica Sandberg: And yeah, he uses that constantly. Constantly, constantly. And you know what? It is not within his

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Erica Sandberg: power to provide joy, inspire joy, give it, give it, take it away. This has nothing to do. He's a supervisor. His job is to do certain things, and we could talk about what the job of a supervisor is, and we have to, because

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Erica Sandberg: there's a disconnect between what… what the voters think it is, what he… what the supervisors are… how they're acting. There is… it's… something has gone really wrong,

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, yeah, no, I agree, too, that, what we've seen happen here all the time

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Richie Greenberg: And not just locally, right, but state and potentially federal as well, is candidates announce their candidacy, they run for office, they get elected, and then once they're in office, they do whatever the heck they want to do.

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Erica Sandberg: Okay, okay, this is the point of my sub-stack that's coming out later on today, if not early tomorrow morning. What does a supervisor do? What are the job duties? Here, I'm pointing. What are the job duties?

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Richie Greenberg: It's okay to point, it's okay to make the emphasis, it's okay. So, basically here in San Francisco, the city itself is divided up into, like, a pie of 11 different districts that are supposed to be similar

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Richie Greenberg: in terms of population, right? So just divide it up into, like, a map, in a sense, and let's not deal with… let's not even talk about redistricting over here, but…

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Richie Greenberg: Anyway, you have different… 11. We have 11 districts, 11 supervisors are then within those districts, and the voters of each district vote their own representative, and they all sit together, 11 of them, in City Hall.

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Richie Greenberg: at the Board of Supervisors meetings to then preside over legislation, ordinances, resolutions, and things like that. So, what else? What else do they do?

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Erica Sandberg: They are legislators, this is what they are. This is… They're not managers.

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Erica Sandberg: Right? A manager will walk around the neighborhood, maybe take a few walks around the block every day, their entire district, and would say, huh, wow, you know, I see some damage in this… on this corner. I see an encampment starting over here. I am gonna go talk to a shopkeeper and see how they're doing, and if there's anything I can do to make their lives better. Oh, and let me…

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Erica Sandberg: Let me have a little conversation with some neighbors about what they experience. Graffiti, garbage, I don't care what

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Erica Sandberg: Potholes, how about potholes? Potholes. And then…

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Erica Sandberg: And then, they get right on it. They will send out a team to fix those problems. That's a manager.

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Richie Greenberg: I'm sure.

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Erica Sandberg: That is not what a supervisor is. That's not their job.

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Erica Sandberg: It should be. It should be. I mean, I think that's, like, a big issue, is that these… these… the job description does need to change. Officially, officially, you're right. They deal with budget issues, they deal with legislation, they… they…

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Erica Sandberg: propose ordinances, right? They do these… they get their pet projects.

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Erica Sandberg: That they… that they themselves think is important, and they're, you know, if they're running for higher office, what they think is going to get them to that next stage, that's what they're going to be pushing for.

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Richie Greenberg: And what's also really important is that they consistently communicate with their constituents, the residents, the voters, and, you know, to be fair, the constituents don't even have to be the voters. There's a lot of people that live

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Richie Greenberg: in San Francisco that are legally here, they have green cards, visas, they are here, and they have a voice, they're paying taxes, they're hardworking, they're contributing to the community, they're contributing to the city, and they are sort of under the jurisdiction as well, so they don't have to be a voter, per se.

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Erica Sandberg: Not at all.

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Erica Sandberg: But it doesn't…

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Erica Sandberg: supervisor is not there to make the district better. I think that is… to improve it, to fix it, that's not their… within their job duties on paper. Can it be? Should it be? 100%. So I think that's where a lot of these… the frustration really comes in. You look at Joel and Guardiano.

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Erica Sandberg: Right? His job should have been, okay, I'm gonna listen to my… to my constituents, and I'm gonna make sure they get what they want.

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Richie Greenberg: And that is certainly not what happened with the majority of the issues that NGardia was involved with. I happened to go through

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Richie Greenberg: in the last week or so, all of the votes that Nguardio has taken, you know, yes or no, on legislation over the last two years or so, two and a half years, and the majority of what's there is just so obscure, so, you know, questionable as whether or not

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Richie Greenberg: you know, I wouldn't expect, if there was 250 pieces of legislation, that he would correspond and communicate with his constituents back in District 4 and ask them, well, what do you think about this? What do you think about this? Should I vote yes or no? What do you think about this? That wouldn't be practical, that wouldn't be realistic, but he's supposed to be

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Richie Greenberg: Someone who, expressed his views when he was running for office, and then the voters trusted that he would be someone to represent

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Richie Greenberg: them when he was taking a vote, voting aye or nay on these different issues and resolutions and ordinances and stuff.

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Richie Greenberg: But I want to just bring up real quickly,

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Richie Greenberg: there are 3 things that I believe… again, I can't… I didn't vote…

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Richie Greenberg: to elect in Guardio, because I don't live in that district, and I can't vote to… neither of us can vote to recall him either.

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Richie Greenberg: But, there are 3 things that I look at that were, pretty crucial that I'm pretty sure that he did not listen to his constituents and did not consult with them either. So, number one, of course, Prop K, putting Prop K on the ballot.

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Richie Greenberg: to now close their important north-south route, we know that. Number two.

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Richie Greenberg: back in January of 2024, so about a year and a half ago, was this horrendous circus that turned into an anti-Semitic Jew-bashing fest in City Hall, the Gaza ceasefire resolution. This was absolutely insane what happened there, and…

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Richie Greenberg: He clearly did not…

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Richie Greenberg: talk to or consult with any of the constituents on this, whether he should have even gone along with it. Well, you know, he voted yes on this, which was a horrendous, shameful thing to do.

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Richie Greenberg: That particular resolution, the ceasefire resolution, was not a, across-the-board, universally supported by his colleagues. All 11 did not, 11 together, the board, did not vote yes. In fact, some of his, colleagues, Matt Dorsey, Mandelman, Stefani, and even his buddy, Scott Weiner.

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Richie Greenberg: They were all against this, and they had their own press conference beforehand to urge everyone to vote no.

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Richie Greenberg: But he voted yes anyway. And we have a lot of the city's

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Richie Greenberg: more traditional and more observant Jewish community is in the districts here on the west side, so it is for sure that he did not consult with his constituents on that.

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Erica Sandberg: He's not representing the people, he's representing himself.

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Richie Greenberg: There you go. That's right. So, the Upper Great Highway with Prop K, Gaza ceasefire, and reparations. Reparations, another completely insane resolution that really divided the city.

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Richie Greenberg: he himself also voted yes to accept the reparations plan, and that was in September, almost 2 years ago, 2023. So, you know, we can go on, there's a whole bunch more, but those 3 right there prove he is not listening to his constituents, he's not consulting with them.

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Erica Sandberg: How embarrassing is it? Because, shame on you, not you, Richie, but shame.

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Richie Greenberg: Shame on Higuardia. And shame on anyone like him.

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Erica Sandberg: Absolutely, and I do know plenty of people who supported him, helped him, really, really guided him into office, were really on his side, and now have abandoned him because they said.

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Erica Sandberg: This is not what was… we were sold a false bill of goods.

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Richie Greenberg: That's right. And some of them who were the staunchest supporters, his supporters, are actually working on the committee and volunteering out there to recall him.

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Erica Sandberg: And, you know, I think it's…

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Erica Sandberg: Don't scream at me here, but it's worth pointing out.

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Erica Sandberg: Donald Trump. You get what you get. You got what you got. That's it. At the very least, you knew what you were going to get, and you got it, right?

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, yeah.

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Erica Sandberg: support or not support, but I think what's important to know is that anybody can …

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Erica Sandberg: anybody can continue with what they said that they were going to do. If they choose to change

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Erica Sandberg: that's on them, right? So, you know, you run on what you believe, and you run on what you… and, you know, people are going to vote for you based on what you told them, and what you promised. And when you really completely change

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Erica Sandberg: That's… You know, good luck to you, mate.

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Richie Greenberg: And do you think, though, that he changed? Do you think that what he ran on…

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Richie Greenberg: I mean, this was different from, like, say, Chessa Bodine's recall. Chessa said, if you elect me, I will do blah blah blah, A, B, C, D, E, F, and a lot of his supporters, when the recall was coming around, saying, why are you upset with him now? He said what he was going to do when he ran, and he did that.

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Erica Sandberg: I think that's a really great counterweight to, you know, Donald Trump and then Chess and Buddin. Both were quite open.

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Erica Sandberg: And very sincere about what they wanted to achieve. And people voted for them based on that. So, absolutely, I can… that is much more understandable why people were upset with Chaser Boudin being recalled, because they're like, well, this is… this is what he said he was. He did what he promised.

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Richie Greenberg: Now, but with NGardio, he didn't list out that he was going to work with, whoever. I mean, there's all these different rumors and theories, was it the big-time, developers and others that were working to shut down the, ….

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Erica Sandberg: the Upper Great Highway to then, bulldoze the whole West Side and put up big luxury condos, right?

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Erica Sandberg: let's face it, we were… people were assured that that wasn't going to happen, that that wasn't part of the plan, but now I'm seeing a lot… and it's going beyond whispers now. I'm seeing a lot of, …

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Erica Sandberg: People, people literally talking out loud that the sunset

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Erica Sandberg: is ugly, that the… this is what you're fighting for, these little homes, they need to go. This is appalling. This is why we have a housing crisis. This is why people can't afford San Francisco. And I'm hearing and seeing it in a much more intense way right now, which is.

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Erica Sandberg: The west side's gotta go. It's gotta go up, it's gotta go thick, it's gotta go dense, it's gotta be transit-friendly, get rid of the families, get rid of these old-timers, get rid of the old way. It's ancient, it's set in amber, what is wrong with you? This…

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Erica Sandberg: is getting louder and stronger. So….

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Richie Greenberg: So, do you think that, that NGardio…

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Richie Greenberg: At any time during his campaign, during his candidacy, when he ran for office, that he stated this, that he would agree with the… that whole.

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Richie Greenberg: bike coalition mentality and the, pro-bulldoze-the-west-side high-density YIMBY. And if he… he would never have been elected, if that's what he was pushing.

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Erica Sandberg: If any viewers have, or listeners have evidence that he did say that that was something that he was hoping to achieve, let us know, because I have never, ever heard that. And yet, it's paving the way for that.

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Erica Sandberg: You know, unless people do protests, which they're going to, and thank goodness, because that's what needs to be done. You know, I don't believe in the whole YMBY versus NIMBY kind of stuff.

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Richie Greenberg: We talked about that also in a previous episode.

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Erica Sandberg: There are a lot of rabid, NIMBY people who are, out of control. Do you think?

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Richie Greenberg: And a lot of them are fairly well-known, or are wealthy from well-known companies. You know, we've got, …

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Richie Greenberg: the CEO and founder, is it founder or co-founder of Yelp threw in hundreds of thousands of dollars to now defend against Nardio's recall. That's, Jeremy Stoppelman, right? And there's others, too.

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Richie Greenberg: This is, you know, a huge problem, a big fight, and…

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Richie Greenberg: you know, Nguardio… here's another thing, too, right? Once Engardio knew that there was going to be this, Upper Great Highway Closure

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Richie Greenberg: proposal. I'm not even talking about it on the ballot yet, but once this was all being discussed.

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Erica Sandberg: I just wanted to make sure you… everyone can hear that I am a San Franciscan.

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Erica Sandberg: I left the cable car going by.

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Richie Greenberg: Oh, oh, you hear it? Okay. Yeah, the cable car, and I used to live on the cable car line two years ago.

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Richie Greenberg: But even when this was first coming around, when all of the rumblings of a potential either ballot measure or not, Enardio did not have to go along. Even, you know, after,

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Richie Greenberg: when it went onto the ballot, and then all the uproar around certain communities here, what was one of the things that Nguardio said to justify it? He said.

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Richie Greenberg: even if… It was not put to a vote of the voters. It was still… closure was still…

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Richie Greenberg: very possible or inevitable, but he did not have to go along with that. On principle, he could say, well, even if it's going… gonna get closed, you know, we can vote for it, or the state can come in, or what have you.

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Richie Greenberg: I don't believe that this is in the best interest of my constituents. He could have just…

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Richie Greenberg: said no. Instead, he became the principal sponsor of the ballot measure. He went all in, put all of his chips in, he became the face of it, and on the, the official government documents that said, who is the main person

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Richie Greenberg: that put this to the… to the voters, who put this on the ballot, it was him. So, he was, like, proudly

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Richie Greenberg: up in everyone's face, saying, yes, we're doing this. So, this was a complete opposite of what you would think. You know, so that's a problem. So…

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Richie Greenberg: Just, another couple of things here, too, I've got, I know it's hard to read, but I got a hold of the, the actual ballot measure of photograph of what the ballot that is now already arrived last week at District 4 Voters,

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Richie Greenberg: registered voters' homes, and it just, very simply, it just says right here, shall Joel and Guardio be recalled or removed?

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Richie Greenberg: From the San Francisco Board of Supervisors. Yes or no? Can't be any simpler.

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Erica Sandberg: And, we know a lot of people are gonna vote.

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Richie Greenberg: Yes, and … throw them out. And I personally, doing some research and talking with people and doing a couple of informal polls in different areas, believe that he will be recalled, the recall will succeed.

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Richie Greenberg: 68, 68, 68% plus or minus 3 margin of error. And that seems to concur with a few other people I've talked to also. So, September 16th, about a month from now, is when that'll be the final actual

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Richie Greenberg: Election Day for all the people who like to vote on Election Day in person, either at City Hall or at their neighborhood polling centers that are in their neighborhood around District 4. Now, it's only District 4 can vote on this.

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Richie Greenberg: So, 68% is what I'm thinking, which is the… you want to call it a landslide? Is it 68%?

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Richie Greenberg: I….

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Erica Sandberg: Never, ever, ever, I mean, come on, we don't know. Polling can be very funny.

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Richie Greenberg: But this is my polling.

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Erica Sandberg: polling can be very funny. I don't think it's a good idea to say, oh, it's gonna be a landslide, you know, my goodness. We'll, we'll see.

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Richie Greenberg: Of course, of course. Now, also, what's interesting is, a few days ago, the major print newspaper here in San Francisco, the Chronicle, San Francisco Chronicle.

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Richie Greenberg: They actually came out No.

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Richie Greenberg: Do not support, they, no, we do not want a recall.

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Erica Sandberg: Why?

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Erica Sandberg: Why? Well… I read it, I read it, and I was like, well, what is… there was literally no good reason for it.

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Erica Sandberg: really didn't understand what their… what their position on that was, like, what it was based on. It was very confusing. Did you see… I mean, you read it, what did you think?

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Richie Greenberg: You know, I look at this as being just a kiss of death. Why? Because…

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Richie Greenberg: They also were opposed to the Chesa Bodine recall a few years ago, and they came up with a whole litany of excuses and a laundry list of this and that. They also brought up what we talked about just before, where he ran

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Richie Greenberg: Bodine, ran on doing A, B, C, D, and E, and he did it, and so that's the Chronicle said, well, you got what you were informed of, and this just seems kind of petty, or…

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Richie Greenberg: or you don't like, you want to do a do-over of the, district attorney. So, now, you know, we've got this, endorsement, a no endorsement, meaning do not vote to recall, vote no on NGARDIO's recall.

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Richie Greenberg: And, you know, we already saw the Chronicles failure on, on a few things when they go ahead and they endorse,

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Richie Greenberg: Kamala Harris, of course. Did they endorse Marjan, Fellauer, do you know? I… I don't know, I think that they did.

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Erica Sandberg: But I do… but I do think they have the… certainly the editorial right to do that. They can do that. It's… that's fine. I… I don't think that they offered a reasonable explanation as to why he shouldn't be. I think it's fairly clear.

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Erica Sandberg: that the people have spoken, or are speaking, and what they're upset about is legitimate. So, I found that editorial very baffling. But that…

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Erica Sandberg: Cool.

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Richie Greenberg: And, you know, also what's important to bring up is that even though the Chronicle is read across the city and regionally in other cities, you know, across the Bay and in Marin and down south of Peninsula, it's got a big, wide distribution, plus they're on, on, online.

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Richie Greenberg: is that the only people who are making the decision to keep or toss out of office in Guardio is District 4. So that's the important thing.

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Richie Greenberg: So, District 4 residents, it would be interesting to see, how many really even… maybe they think they changed their mind from what a newspaper editorial board says. My feeling is no, that they're not gonna listen.

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Erica Sandberg: So we shall see. It's gonna be an exciting, you know, just as an observer, it's gonna be an exciting thing to watch. Recalls are always fraught, and this one is. And, you know, I would love, you know, if OnGuardia was listening, I doubt he is, but who knows? Maybe if you are, Joel.

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Erica Sandberg: This is not personal. This is not against you as a human. This is what you've done business-wise. You made a critical error. A very, very serious critical error. And people get fired

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Erica Sandberg: All the time. For….

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Richie Greenberg: I do, they do. And I agree entirely with you, it's not personal. There are some people that chatter online and say, well, they don't like his lifestyle. I said, come on, it has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Doesn't matter where he was born, where he… how he grew up, it's just… it's based entirely on job performance.

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Richie Greenberg: Basically, right? If he was working for a private company, and he was doing something different from what his job description is, or what he was hired to do, or he did it badly, you're out. What's the problem?

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Erica Sandberg: You know, and they're big earners, too. I mean, it's not the… it's not enormous CEO salaries, but, you know, these are people who do make a very good income here in the city. It's around $150.

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Richie Greenberg: And also the, the, like, the health benefits and other pension and all of that that's gonna come up, too.

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Richie Greenberg: And I think that they, yeah, they hold onto it even if they get recalled, right? So it's not like a punishment, you're severed, and you're done. That would be an interesting ballot measure, wouldn't it? To say that if you get recalled or fired for some egregious, you know, you've been indicted, you lose everything.

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Erica Sandberg: Right.

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Richie Greenberg: I think it should be, so….

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Erica Sandberg: I

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Erica Sandberg: like all of us, I mean, seriously, everybody in the United States right now, job security, there is no such thing, there shouldn't be such a thing, in terms of, like, if you do something wrong, you should face the consequences.

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Erica Sandberg: And this was a wrong thing. So, we shall see. I mean, this… but that's my opinion. You have your opinion, other people are supporters, and let the games begin.

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Richie Greenberg: Exactly. Okay, on that note, we're going to, conclude our…

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Richie Greenberg: How about if we call this the special edition of the Really San Francisco podcast? Because this has to do with the Joel and Guardio District 4 recall, which is kicking off today. Does that sound good, Erica?

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Erica Sandberg: Sounds great to me.

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Richie Greenberg: Alright, so…

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Richie Greenberg: please, you know, tune in, if the whole, every, every episode, we, we go ahead and, on social media and elsewhere, we, we announce that there's another episode has just dropped. And so, Erica, you wanna take it to the conclusion now?

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Erica Sandberg: I do. Look, I want everyone to know

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Erica Sandberg: I love talking about San Francisco. I think about it from the moment I wake up, and I… I… it's… it has… it is a semi-obsession, so I want to hear from everybody,

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Erica Sandberg: let me know what you think, what you want, what is upsetting you, what's making you excited. There's so much going on right now about

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Erica Sandberg: Daniel Lurie, is he doing a good job? Is he doing a bad job? Ricky, you and I probably don't agree, although I'm starting to wobble, so… but it has nothing to do with you, it has nothing to do with me just being an observer.

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Erica Sandberg: But, I would say just please reach out. You have our contact information, I'm pretty sure. You can always reach me through X, Erica J. Sandberg.

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Erica Sandberg: My DMs are always open. Always. So, hit me up and throw out some ideas and some opinions. I do want to know.

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Richie Greenberg: And also, how about some suggestions for some future podcast episodes as well? I mean, we have so many… and you know, there's so many topics, so much to talk about.

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Richie Greenberg: San Francisco is just this machine, this factory of all kinds of things we can talk about, good and bad. And so, again, I'm Richie Greenberg, Erica Sandberg, my colleague here, you can reach her on X. You can reach me also on X at Greenberg Nation.

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Richie Greenberg: And…

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Richie Greenberg: We'll see you next time. Thank you so much for tuning in on Really San Francisco. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you.