S2 Episode 12: Trump Sending Troops to San Francisco?

Richie and Erica discuss the latest freakout from San Francisco city hall elected officials who are reacting to President Trump's asserting federal intervention may be coming. SF District 5 supervisor Bilal Mahmood is especially miffed as the epicenter of the drug-induced humanitarian disaster in right in his front yard, the Tenderloin neighborhood. Erica and Richie both give 2 thumbs up on the potential federal help.

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Transcript

Really, San Francisco? Episode 12 : Trump Sending Troops to San Francisco

Erica Sandberg: Hello, and welcome to Really San Francisco, the podcast that I do with none other than Richie Greenberg, talking about all things San Francisco, politics, social issues, you name it, we're gonna cover it. So, hey, Richie!

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Richie Greenberg: Hey, Erica, great to see you, happy Monday, and … yeah, let me little interject there. We always talk about the good and the bad here in San Francisco, the city that we love.

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Richie Greenberg: Right? I mean, we love this place.

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Erica Sandberg: Yeah, definitely, there's so much going on. A lot of it is positive, a lot of it is negative, and it's great that we're able to kind of jump in.

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Erica Sandberg: And talk about what we think is going right and going wrong. Because it's too common, and Richard, what do you think about it? Is it too common that some politicians will put this golden aura around our city, a little bit too party-ish?

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Erica Sandberg: Too positive, look how great we're being. And then the naysayers are just gonna be this

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Erica Sandberg: I feel like you're falling into a great well of, bleakness. So, it's nice to be able to go back and forth. What do you think?

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, of course. It's really important, because we've got, …

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Richie Greenberg: you know, we want to see this city succeed, we want to see everything just get pulled up, you know, bootstrapped. We want to come back up like a phoenix, in a sense, rising out of the ashes, and we deserve it, you know? We've been here for decades, we love San Francisco, we have visitors and friends and…

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Richie Greenberg: Family and, and, others that come to this city, and …

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Richie Greenberg: You know, we want to be proud, right? We want to be proud of this city.

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Erica Sandberg: Of course! And so, our job, I think, is certainly not to be promo people, but simply to tell the truth. This is what we're doing. The truth is, we are going to be focusing on something today that is ugly.

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Erica Sandberg: It is sad, it is an embarrassment, and it drags our city down in so many ways, which is…

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Erica Sandberg: the crime of squalor, and I say crime, you know, this whole business about crime and stuff, it depends on what kind of crime, but the squalor, the mayhem, the drug dealings that is on our streets, drug use.

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Erica Sandberg: Every day?

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Richie Greenberg: Every day, unabated, you know, and there are people out there, I keep calling them citizen journalists, which I think is a good term, right? There are people walking around with their cameras, there are people that have, …

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Richie Greenberg: different types of devices that they wear, and they're on bicycles, and they go through it all hours of the day and night, filming, documenting for us to see what the reality is from someone who's right there, right… driving through it, walking through it, riding through it. It's meant…

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Richie Greenberg: It's, it's not meant to, …

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Richie Greenberg: to go against what the efforts of City Hall are. Instead, in my opinion, it's meant to show that not everything is all rosy, and not everything is great and fantastic, and that we just don't have to look at it anymore.

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Erica Sandberg: That's right, and truth is truth, that's the end of the story. So let's… let's, instead of trying to paint a… or trying to put a shellac of prettiness over garbage, let's just fix the garbage. And a lot of garbage is here.

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Erica Sandberg: And I think the reason for our podcast today, for this episode today, is to talk about federal intervention, and….

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Richie Greenberg: What does that mean? Well, how has that come in the form of federal intervention, Erica?

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Erica Sandberg: How?

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Richie Greenberg: Well, it's from Trump, right? It's from President Trump, and what happened?

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Richie Greenberg: Just a few days ago, Trump, mentioned in one of his, numerous

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Richie Greenberg: Oval Office, or, or press room, whichever it was.

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Richie Greenberg: that he was thinking, this is coming on the heels of the Washington, D.C. Federal Troop National Guard takeover because of the rampant crime and actual murders. There's a lot of murders there.

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Richie Greenberg: That, people were feeling unsafe, tourists and residents and business owners and, you know, Congress members, everyone's getting assaulted and, and, carjackings. It was falling apart, mayhem.

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Richie Greenberg: And the city there, they don't have a governor, but they have a mayor. The mayor, their city council, were all just

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Richie Greenberg: Pretending that there was no problem, and you could see very much the disconnect.

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Richie Greenberg: And now here in… yeah, and now here in San Francisco. What's happening there? Exactly. So, so….

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Erica Sandberg: I think this is really important. If… Our government, our local leaders.

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Erica Sandberg: The mayor, the board of supervisors, the departments, the entire structure that holds this city together.

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Erica Sandberg: We know one thing. One thing we know is that the problems on our street that we just outlined have been pervasive. They've been going on for a long time. In some ways, they're getting worse, and in some ways they're getting better, but they're still here. We know that. That is a fact that's true. Now, if our government, whoever they may be at the time, cannot control it.

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Erica Sandberg: And not?

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Erica Sandberg: Fix it.

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Richie Greenberg: Admit it! I'm gonna say….

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Erica Sandberg: And they refuse to.

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Richie Greenberg: Because if they don't want to admit that it's there, and if they actually go out and try and censor, and they try and shut down and block and do whatever they can for the people who are their citizen journalists showing what's happening, those citizens get…

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Richie Greenberg: chastised, get yelled at, try to get, people try and get them banned for what they're saying. That's censorship, so they refuse, this is, in my opinion, the city hall elected officials and the people who they appoint, right, to the different commissions.

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Richie Greenberg: If they refuse, that's what's happening here. There's a refusal to deal with it, and the big question is why, but that's a different track of what we're talking about right now.

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Erica Sandberg: So, if we look at different areas, right, let's just look at one of the worst areas, of course, is the Tenderloin Civic Center and Midmarket area. That primarily is District… the supervisor for that district is District 5,

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Erica Sandberg: Bilal Mahmood, and, why isn't he standing up and saying, I will take any help I can get? Right. This is unacceptable. It's unacceptable to me, and I want the world to know I don't consider it acceptable. So whoever's gonna come.

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Erica Sandberg: and give us the tools and guidance and support that we need so that the people who live in my district, legitimately paying rent, and that includes the small business owners, right? They matter. They matter more than politics.

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Richie Greenberg: Right. Yeah, yeah, so it's interesting that the… what happened is, for those who were listeners who were a little unfamiliar with this, is that certain areas of the city, when we divide them up into the 11 district

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Richie Greenberg: supervisorial lines, right? That the lines themselves changed a couple of years ago, and then wound up incorporating the worst of the worst, the areas, the neighborhoods that we see.

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Richie Greenberg: Images and videos on air whenever there's a, you know, a need to show the squalor and the drug dealing and dealers.

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Richie Greenberg: That was incorporated into then District 5, when before it was not.

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Richie Greenberg: So, the district lines changing wound up, kind of surprising or ambushing some of the previous supervisors

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Richie Greenberg: Didn't have to deal with that before.

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Erica Sandberg: And that's fine. The point is not that. The point is, are you taking responsibility for the area that you're supposed to, or not?

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Richie Greenberg: Right, well, when you had… in the past, we had Matt Haney, right? Matt Haney is… I'm just giving you a little bit of information here, and some back anecdotal things.

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Richie Greenberg: Matt Haney right now is representative of the east side of San Francisco. He's District 17… Assembly District 17, which is different from Supervisors, and he represents the east side of San Francisco in Sacramento, at the, the Assembly.

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Richie Greenberg: Assembly. And when he won, when he first won.

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Richie Greenberg: as supervisor, which was taking over from Jane Kim, one of the things that he was quoted as saying is he was complaining. He complained right at the beginning, saying, wow, I had no idea that this was so bad. I'm inheriting a mess from my predecessor.

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Richie Greenberg: He actually said that. This was years ago.

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Erica Sandberg: So Haney was complaining about how….

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Richie Greenberg: Jane Kim left his district… left her district for him to now inherit the problems. So, now, with all things changing, there's different, supervisors now, and the lines are different, now we've got Bilal Mahmoud coming in, who won election in November, just, you know, 9 months ago, 8 months ago.

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Richie Greenberg: So, instead of him now saying, wow, this is a mess, and we really need to work together to fix this, we have this instead, he's decrying.

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Richie Greenberg: He is lamenting, decrying, he's pissed off, he's even threatening back the President of the United States, who says… Trump, who says, now he may want to send in some troops.

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Erica Sandberg: Yeah, and in some ways, I understand that, because I… you know, I think it's really important to always to get outside of yourself. Now, if I… I'm not a… I'm not a…

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Erica Sandberg: I'm apparently not even into politics. I love socialism. I don't… I'm not… I'm not… when I… when I say that I don't have a party, I just don't care.

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Richie Greenberg: Did you want to run for… didn't you want to run for office a few years ago?

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Erica Sandberg: Yeah, for Mayor, but….

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, you see, I knew you were… I remember that. You were actually thinking of running for mayor.

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Erica Sandberg: Well, right, one thing that we know is that, this is… when you… the mayor, the supervisors, this is not… these aren't party positions. You can have a party, you could be a member of a party, but you're not being elected based on your blue.

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Richie Greenberg: Well, you're not supposed to, right?

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Erica Sandberg: Okay, but the point is, is… What was my point?

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Richie Greenberg: much to discuss, it gets so weird.

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Erica Sandberg: The thing is, accept the help if it's out there.

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Erica Sandberg: But, of course, I understand that if the help is coming from someone who you absolutely loathe, for either legitimate reasons or emotional reasons, you know, like, whatever, I understand you're going to be a little bit reluctant, but you have to get over yourself. You have to. It's kind of like, imagine

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Erica Sandberg: you know, imagine you're dying on the street. Well, the person who runs over to help

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Erica Sandberg: Right? And, you know, pulls you out and puts you into an ambulance, you're not going to be asking, what's in it for you? Right?

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Richie Greenberg: What's in it for, or what political party are you with?

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Erica Sandberg: Exactly.

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Richie Greenberg: Or what's your religion, or anything like that.

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Erica Sandberg: You'll be grateful, and you'll be grateful, and you're like, wow, thank you so much. And that is where, kind of where we are. Now, later, you can say, well, this was not quid… I can never say that right… quid pro quo, right? You know, you saved me, now what? Now I'm supposed to pay you, or am I supposed to do something in your favor? But, you know, just say thanks, I will take it. As long as there are no strings attached, you're good.

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Erica Sandberg: You're good.

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Richie Greenberg: Let me, let me read a couple of quotes from Bill Al-Mahmood, who is partly the subject of today's podcast. So here's what Bill Al-Mahmoud on Twitter, on X, he said, just a few days ago.

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Richie Greenberg: Donald Trump just threatened to send federal troops to San Francisco, and he did so because he's a coward.

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Richie Greenberg: So that's kind of a strange use of wording there, that Bilal is saying that Trump is a coward.

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Richie Greenberg: And, Bilal also said that Trump is afraid of the Democratic success in major cities.

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Richie Greenberg: So, again, Bilal is claiming that there are major successes in dealing with

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Richie Greenberg: all the different myriad issues and societal problems of these democratic-run cities, and they're successful, so we don't need you, and that's what he's saying. Balal is claiming that burglaries are down, vehicle thefts down, homicides down, robberies down.

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Richie Greenberg: And for the first time in nearly 10 years, the majority of San Franciscans feel we're on the right track.

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Richie Greenberg: So Trump's threats are not an accident, they are a targeted attempt to mask his own failures as president.

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Erica Sandberg: Yeah, that's ridiculous. It's bizarre, it's out of the stratosphere. That doesn't make any sense. Now, do I think that…

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Erica Sandberg: President Trump is doing what he's doing in this way, so that he can score points, and he can, you know, take the opportunity to slap a very liberal

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Erica Sandberg: Administration? Absolutely! Of course!

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Richie Greenberg: Of course.

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Erica Sandberg: Of course, because of the fans.

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Richie Greenberg: failure.

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Erica Sandberg: No!

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Richie Greenberg: And again, look at all what citizen journalists are showing, right? Look, and me and you, and we see, with our own eyes, we see empty storefronts, we see

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Richie Greenberg: empty ghost town malls, we see graffiti, we see, occasionally, as we're walking around, just, we walk upon, we come upon groups of, drug dealers and folded over, fentanyl-folded over, addicts, right? We see that ourselves, even up till today or yesterday.

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Erica Sandberg: So let's be logical here, so let's be logical. There would be absolutely no reason for any kind of action like this from the Trump administration if our city was functioning beautifully.

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Erica Sandberg: Right? It wouldn't happen. There would be no reason for it. So this… it is preposterous for Mahmoud to make that kind of statement. Clearly.

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Erica Sandberg: Clearly, there are problems. I went yesterday to the Tenderloin, Sunday afternoon, late Sunday afternoon, and…

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Erica Sandberg: I would say that it was a tiny little, tiny, tiny, tiny bit better than what it has been, but that fluctuates from moment to moment anyway. But it was a disaster. I mean, come on, it was a disaster. It was… I don't know if somebody's alive or dead. I don't know if their dog that is sleeping by their side….

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Richie Greenberg: They bring dogs. Isn't that an interesting, interesting phenomenon, that a lot of these addicts happen to have dogs with them as well, and….

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Erica Sandberg: It's so sad, it's so sad. And because I tend not to look threatening, at least I don't think that I do, I'm able to walk by.

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Richie Greenberg: That's because no one knows, they don't know how threatening you could be.

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Erica Sandberg: But I can walk by clusters of drug dealers, and they're not going to, you know, think that I'm a threat, so they'll… I see them. They're there. They're not scattering, they're there.

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Erica Sandberg: This is a problem! Fix the freaking problem! And I love metaphors, Richie, so I'm gonna jump in with this. This is like an airplane, where the pilot is sitting in the cockpit.

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Erica Sandberg: And just saying, look, I don't know what you're doing. You know, I'm doing my best, and I can't… I don't know how to fly this thing. I don't know how to fly this thing.

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Richie Greenberg: I don't know how to land it, I don't….

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Erica Sandberg: Right, right.

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Richie Greenberg: What are all these dials? What are these dials? And I don't want people to help.

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Erica Sandberg: That's right, that's right, yeah, I'm not interested in calling for, for, you know, whatever help you get when you, when you call in. Mayday. Right, Mayday.

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Richie Greenberg: Yeah, I don't know what I'm.

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Erica Sandberg: going….

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Richie Greenberg: I don't know, I can't help, and don't bother me, and keep out of it.

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Erica Sandberg: Right, so it's complete BS to… for the people in charge to blame any outside force. This is your… this is your baby. This is your plane. Fly it. If you can't fly it, get out of the way. And that is really important, and it's a profound disrespect

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Erica Sandberg: for the people in your district, the people in San Francisco, visitors to this great city, right? It's a profound disrespect to say.

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Erica Sandberg: I will not accept assistance. Why not come to the table with an agreement? How about instead, get out of the way and say, okay, we are not politically aligned.

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Erica Sandberg: But we do need help. Well, but….

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Richie Greenberg: of course, work together, but first they don't want that. They want full control.

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Richie Greenberg: They don't want to… they want full control, and along with it, they don't want to admit that there's even a problem to have to control. Because then that would be admitting that there was a problem, potential of failure, because their policies are a failure. This is what they're saying, right? They don't want that.

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Erica Sandberg: And, you know, you're going to hear that kind of rhetoric from supervisors, and department heads, and the mayor sometimes, but… but let's not forget, you're also going to be hearing it from people who are so staunchly committed to their political pers…

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Erica Sandberg: perspective. That's right. That's harder, because….

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Richie Greenberg: Because otherwise, that would show the party is failing, and that would.

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Erica Sandberg: their policies.

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Richie Greenberg: their proposals, their, their budget that they've been, you know, taxpayers' money to have programs, right? It's all failing. So it's a whole big house.

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Richie Greenberg: Of cards that would all just come crashing down if it were disrupted. So they have to keep it status quo, keep the money flowing, keep people employed, keep policies and proposals going, and ultimately, what does that do? That means you keep the elected officials in office.

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Erica Sandberg: That's right. So…

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Erica Sandberg: We talk about the good, and we talk about the bad, but we started with the bad, so let's talk about the good. There's a lot of support. There are a lot of people who say, well, finally.

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Erica Sandberg: Oh my god, I don't like that, man. I'm not… I'm not a big… not a big Trumper, I'm not a Trumper at all. In fact, I can't stand them, but my God, do we need help. And if we can get it from the federal government.

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Erica Sandberg: Let's do it.

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Richie Greenberg: And that's what we're seeing. All these stories are coming out of Washington, D.C. now.

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Erica Sandberg: No plans.

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Richie Greenberg: I've heard… I've heard two sides of this, but it seems to be much more on a positive note, saying that finally these criminals and the…

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Richie Greenberg: You know, the gangs, and the dealers, and it's all being reined in, the whole… everything that they're reining in, and …

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Richie Greenberg: There's also proposals now to tighten up things at their city council as well, on how procedure's going, and arrests, and gang dealing, so…

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Richie Greenberg: It's, you know, yeah, I can't really see anything negative out of this, unless there's a unfortunate events, like there's protesters that wind up coming out in the streets here in San Francisco.

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Erica Sandberg: Oh, we can stop it! We can stop… this will be stopped. If that plane is up in the air, and everybody's safe.

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Erica Sandberg: We don't need the… we don't need the rescue any longer! Wonderful! Right? Exactly. So this would be a motivational tool to finally get your act together and do what needs to be done. So, you know, again, on trying to keep things in a positive spin, positive note… Yeah. Yeah, I'm just looking at some statistics here I've got to print out.

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Richie Greenberg: that, you know, we are hearing now from the mayor and others in City Hall.

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Erica Sandberg: how.

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Richie Greenberg: crime has been down. This is what they're saying, right? And a lot of it is based on SFPD statistics, and this is one of the problems that's happening in Washington, D.C. now. The Trump administration, feds are saying.

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Richie Greenberg: potentially, the local law enforcement agencies have been fudging the figures to make it look like it's much safer than it really is. Now, I'm not saying that that's the problem here, right? I'm not saying that that is what's happening in San Francisco.

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Richie Greenberg: Maybe it is, maybe it's not, but here's one interesting figure. I'm looking at specific overdose deaths due to fentanyl, meth.

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Richie Greenberg: and, cocaine, okay, over the last few years. So, in 2021, when London Breed was mayor and others in City Hall, we had 625 overdose deaths, with 74% of those cases were by fentanyl.

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Richie Greenberg: So we had, 625 in 2021.

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Richie Greenberg: 2022 went to 649. 2023 went to 810. So it's on the upswing to 2022, right? And again, in the 70% or so was caused by fentanyl.

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Richie Greenberg: Then in 2024, it dropped by 20%, down to 635 deaths. But now.

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Richie Greenberg: now with new Mayor Lurie in, with new Supervisor Bilal Mahmoud in, in that particular area, now it's starting to creep up again, where we've already had, just in the past couple of months.

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Richie Greenberg: an increase with 57 deaths just in May alone, where they're projecting it now to be way back up again. So that's a problem, that you can say whatever you want about crimes down, carjackings and other kinds of larceny may be down, right? But…

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Richie Greenberg: Fentanyl, which is what we see the most of. That's the… that's what you see, those who… the addicts that are, you know, folded over on the street corners, zombies.

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Richie Greenberg: And, just strung out, and the SFPD and other fire department and emergency paramedics trying to revive someone. Shake, you know, they're trying to rub and shake them while they're on the street. Technically, they're dead, right?

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Richie Greenberg: the, any of the Narcan, that is not to prevent you from dying from an overdose. That revives you after you are technically already gone. It revives them from that, right? And you and I have talked about that quite a bit.

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Richie Greenberg: So, … That's the scene. That's the deaths, that's the inhumanity. That's what's happening on the street now.

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Erica Sandberg: And in fact, in fact, if we included those numbers in our murder rate, in our homicide rate, we would… we are… when it says homicides are down, murders are down, include those numbers, and you'll see them spike

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Erica Sandberg: Like, while. Exactly.

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Richie Greenberg: Exactly.

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Erica Sandberg: Are… are they… could they… could they be considered a type of murder?

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Erica Sandberg: Absolutely.

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Richie Greenberg: I think that's how they've been getting some of these drug dealers, if not here, then in other cities and other states. They're charging with murder for what they're doing, because they are actively providing the drugs to kill someone.

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Erica Sandberg: That's right, that's right. So, yeah, I mean.

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Erica Sandberg: statistics are… they can work in your favor, they're working against your favor, depending on what they are, who collects it, and all kinds of reasons, but look, I'm really glad that I could walk downtown, and typically, I feel safe. I'm good.

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Erica Sandberg: But it's not okay. It's not okay to ignore the fact that

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Erica Sandberg: the crimes that are happening are not necessarily been being recorded. These are the drug dealing. That is a crime. Doing drugs in public is a crime. That's not being recorded. There's a lot….

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Richie Greenberg: And this is one of the major reasons why we have retail collapse, right? That we have empty shopping malls, and we have the cafes and restaurants, and… because the area that this is happening in…

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Richie Greenberg: is right around… partly around our theater district and other major retail areas as well. And that's what's keeping the conventions from coming back, keeping the hotels from filling up again, unless there's a very specific…

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Richie Greenberg: Right. Major conference, but in general, people are keeping away from San Francisco because of this phenomenon.

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Erica Sandberg: Right, right, and so to omit those types of crimes from the headlines.

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Erica Sandberg: property, you know, crime is down, and murders are down, etc. Well, to admit those crimes, it is extremely insulting, because it is… everybody knows, you go down, you go to 16th and Mission.

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Erica Sandberg: And you'll look around you, you think, I'm in the middle of a nightmare. This is a nightmare. This is… and it's not just because it's depressing, which it is. It's not just because your compassion will…

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Erica Sandberg: My clause just oozed out of your body because it's so horrific. But it's crime! These are crimes! These are stolen merchandise that is on the ground. It's… it is absent from this data.

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Richie Greenberg: It is. And, you know, to that point also, very interesting, I'm often with visitors from out of the city, friends, relatives, or others, acquaintances.

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Richie Greenberg: And every time that they, these visitors, happen to see this for themselves, they see this with their own eyes on the street, they ask me, they say, Richie.

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Richie Greenberg: How… Can the government let this happen?

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Erica Sandberg: Well, precisely. And you use such an important word, Richie, it's the word let. They have let it happen, because

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Erica Sandberg: Somebody's in charge. That's right.

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Richie Greenberg: And in many cases

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Richie Greenberg: And in many cases, you could even easily make the argument that the government is helping this to happen, because of all of the low cost, the fentanyl's the lowest…

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Richie Greenberg: price here in San Francisco is, I think, in the country that you can get fentanyl. That's why we… it's attracting addicts to come here, right? And the fact that the government is not stopping dealers from dealing on the street, they're allowing it to happen, and a lot of this is subsidized

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Richie Greenberg: Monetarily, right, by whom? The taxpayers.

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Erica Sandberg: Absolutely. Absolutely. So…

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Erica Sandberg: the fact that there has been another big, fat spotlight on our city, as well as other cities in the United States, …

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Erica Sandberg: You know, that's a good thing. That's a good thing. That's great. That's great. You know, sometimes I…

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Erica Sandberg: I feel like you and I, and a few others, you know, we end up saying.

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Erica Sandberg: Who else is out there? Hello? So it's actually really nice to have some validation from… from another big fat source, you know, which is there. And it is… it is… we could change this almost overnight.

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Erica Sandberg: And I absolutely….

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Richie Greenberg: And that's what they're saying happened in Washington, D.C. It almost changed overnight that there has been this drop to zero, zero murders when it used to be among the highest, or the highest major city for, …

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Richie Greenberg: homicide rate. That's right. It just stopped dead in its tracks. Some people are saying, well, they're freaked out now because they see these soldiers militarized with,

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Richie Greenberg: with their arms, right, M16 or whatever, their slide arms, right, handguns. And that's a wild thing to see, on the streets, and so I don't know if that's gonna happen here in San Francisco, but…

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Richie Greenberg: You don't even know if it's gonna happen at all. It might not happen at all, but… So, as we're, coming to the conclusion of today's episode on this, can I ask you, Erica, as far as your thoughts

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Richie Greenberg: Do you give thumbs up to having federal intervention?

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Richie Greenberg: Thumbs up, thumbs down, or a mix? What do you think?

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Erica Sandberg: I say thumbs up!

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Richie Greenberg: We need that.

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Erica Sandberg: We need the help, and….

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Richie Greenberg: I agree.

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Richie Greenberg: Two thumbs up, two thumbs up. Two thumbs up, okay. So one of the reasons I do want to give a little addendum to that, which is the reason I give two thumbs up is.

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Erica Sandberg: Is…

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Erica Sandberg: If we do get some troops on our street, which… who knows if that's gonna happen, but what that could do is that could take a burden off of our

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Erica Sandberg: FFPD, and allow them to be a little bit more effective, or a lot more effective. We need to deal with those dealers. They have to go. I've said it before, I'll say it again, and I will not stop saying it. They're… they're the snake.

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Erica Sandberg: cut the head off, they gotta go. They go, addicts go with them, but the fact is.

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Erica Sandberg: We have to figure out what to do with the people who are left, and they matter. They do. I'm just gonna have to say from my heart, because I do know so many people who are suffering, it's really a bad situation. You're addicted to something extremely powerful. So, yes.

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Erica Sandberg: There needs to be…

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Erica Sandberg: enforcement. Law enforcement. It has to… we have to get back to the point where our streets are rid of these dealers. But I, you know, we're gonna have to deal with the… with the out…

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Erica Sandberg: With the people who remain, and that's… Yeah, we do.

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Richie Greenberg: And it might be a very rapid transition and evolution into something different here in San Francisco as well, because if you don't have the drug dealers, and they're not there, and they've been chased off.

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Richie Greenberg: We also have to ensure that not only do they not come back, but that all of this, …

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Richie Greenberg: Enticement.

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Richie Greenberg: Right? The enticement that has brought drug addicts from all around the country to San Francisco, that needs to stop as well. The incentive, the enticement has to stop. So it's going to evolve, right? It's going to be a very quick evolution to something different, and I don't know exactly what that's going to look like.

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Erica Sandberg: We don't know, we don't know, but on… at this stage, and I understand that we're at the end of this podcast episode today.

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Erica Sandberg: you know, let the games begin, because what we really need is that extra push up into the sky. I think we're on the right track, I really do. I feel it, I feel it in my bones. I've talked to a lot of people, and it's this…

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Erica Sandberg: some of them are almost reluctant to say, I kind of think we're in the right direction, so let's just keep going. Let's just… keep it going. Yeah, yeah.

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Richie Greenberg: Bilal, Bilal Mahmoud, shut up. Just shut up, and let this….

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Erica Sandberg: What happened?

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Richie Greenberg: Alright, so, Eric, it's been a pleasure chatting with you today.

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Erica Sandberg: Always.

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Richie Greenberg: Again, another fun episode of Really San Francisco, and we look forward to speaking with everybody again real soon. Take care, Erica, take care, everybody.

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Erica Sandberg: You too. Bye-bye, everyone.